 Good afternoon. Welcome, everyone, to today's June 1st, City of Columbia Board of Zoning Appeals. I am John Gregory, Chair for the Board, and will be serving as Chair for today's meeting. At this time, I'd like to introduce the other members of the board, starting with Vice Chair Katherine Finner to my left, Celia McIntosh on the end, Davis Whittle to my right, and Marcellus Promise on the other end. Also, I'd like to introduce Erica Hyen. She is our sole zoning administrator up here today, so thank you for filling in. And Sky Robinson Barnes, land use board coordinator. The board is charged with hearing applications for special exceptions, variances, and administrative appeals. All testimony is recorded for the record, and anyone wishing to speak will need to be sworn in and come to the podium to speak. No testimony may be taken from the floor. When you come to the podium, please state your name, and please be clearly into the microphone, because this meeting is being recorded. Applicants with cases before the board are allotted a presentation time of 10 minutes. This time also includes all persons presenting information on behalf of the applicant. This time limit does not include any questions asked by the board or staff regarding the case. Any member of the public may address the board in intervals of three minutes or five minutes if by a spokesperson for an established body of group of three or more. The applicant then can come back up to the podium and has five minutes for rebuttal. This board reserves the right to amend these limits on a case-by-case basis. All right, so we're about to swear in any of those who are here and wish to speak. So those of you who do plan to speak must be sworn. If you are here as an applicant or here to speak in any case, please stand at this time and raise your right hand. Again, do you affirm or test that the testimony that you will give today is the truth in nothing but the truth? All right, thank you, can sit down. At this time, I will turn the meeting over to Ms. Hyann. Good afternoon, I'm Erica Hyann, the Deputy Zoning Administrator. I am gonna review the consent agenda at this time. First thing on the consent agenda is the approval of the May 4th, 2023 minutes. 19, Wind Met Drive, special exception to expand a place of worship. Next item on the consent agenda is a variance 20230016V-1709 Smith Street and South-South-South-Eastern Beltway, a variance to the interior parking areas on the agenda, a special exception 20230017SE-1709 Smith Street and South-South-South-Eastern Beltway, a special exception to permit an alternative parking service. The last item on the consent agenda, special exception, excuse me, a variance for 20230018V-120U Services Road, a variance to the interior parking landscape areas. At this time, if anybody, a board member or a member of the audience would like an item removed from the consent agenda and placed on the regular agenda. Yeah, yes, ma'am, we're about to vote on the minutes from last month's meeting and also the items, the cases on the consent agenda. And so if anyone wishes to speak on those cases, now's the time to do so because we're about to vote on it. Please come to the podium. We'll set your name, please. I'm Monica Woods. I'm a resident of Northwood Hills Community. Okay. And I would like to see if you can remove that from the consent to the regular agenda so our neighborhood can explore that some more. Right now, that's a residential area and we're not really sure if we want to expand to a church being in our neighborhood. And that is directly across from me. I will look out my door and see a church. Move it to the regular agenda. Do we need to vote on it or can we just, we can just move it correct? I think we can just move it to the end of the regular agenda. Let's take that case and move it to the regular agenda. All right. Anyone else like to speak before we make a motion on this? All right. Yeah, I'd like to hear a motion if someone is ready. I move that we approve, the consent agenda subject to the removal of the case on windmint drive subject to and subject to staff comments. Like a suggestion? Sure. I think we are moving the windmint to the regular agenda so we need to reference it in the consent agenda motion. I think we need to reference that as being moved from the consent agenda to the regular agenda. So I move that we move the windmint case from the consent agenda to the regular agenda and approve all other items on the consent agenda subject to staff comments. Do we have a second? We have a motion and a second. All those in favor? Aye. The motion carries. So all those that we just voted on the cases on the consent agenda, if any of y'all are here for that, you're welcome to leave if you'd like to stay as well, but we need windmint. Right, we'll move on to the regular agenda. The first case on the regular agenda is a special exception, 1818 McFadden Street. It's a special exception to permit a barbershop as a home occupation. The applicant is here. I know you just, yeah, please state your name for the record. My name is John Mender, Jr. and I preside at 1818 McFadden Street. Thank you. Okay. I would like to put a one-chair culinary in my house, not with a whole bunch of traffic and if you would like to get your hair cut, you would have to call me in advance. I don't want a whole bunch of traffic in my neighborhood and I don't want to know anybody in my neighborhood. I would just like to cut hair to those who need hair cutting until I'm able, I'm able to proceed with me in another place. I think that's obvious. Do you have a question for him? I think it's pretty straightforward. All right, thank you. Okay. And what I would sort of like to say, it's not gonna be like open every day, maybe like in the afternoon, so you won't disturb the neighbors. Yeah, I think that's all in your application. I think we're gonna be open till seven. Yes sir. Yeah. All right, thank you. Appreciate your testimony. Before we get into a board discussion, anybody here from the public wish to speak on this matter? Yes ma'am, please come forward. Good afternoon. Would you please say your name? My name is Alexina Irving-Fergus. Okay. I live in the same neighborhood. In fact, a street over. And we live in a residential neighborhood. It's a small neighborhood. We don't have sidewalks. The streets are very narrow. And on the street, there's no parking, no space for parking. And the neighborhoods in our neighbors in the neighborhood have signed this petition. All have signed it saying they do not wish to have a commercial business in our residential neighborhood in that it would reduce the value of our homes. It would endanger the children who walk from the schools because there's no sidewalk. They walk in the middle of the street and the street is narrow. Sometimes if two cars are on the street, one will have to pull aside and wait for the other to pass. We don't want a business in our neighborhood. And I'm telling you, one chair in a barber shop means nothing. My father had a barber shop for 50 years. And towards the end of his experience as a barber, of course, he was quite old by that time. He had one chair in his shop, but there were always two or three people waiting. And of course, there were cars outside waiting for the owners of the cars to drive away. And we don't want to change the nature of our neighborhood. We want it to be residential. Our neighborhood is unique in that youngsters can start at preschool and walk from preschool until college. And that's unique. We have a preschool, we have an elementary school, we have a middle school, we have a high school and we have two colleges right in our neighborhood. And we really, as you can see from the signatures on this list, do not wish to have or to change it in any way from residential to commercial. So I'm asking that you listen to us and listen to the people in our community and think too whether you would want a business next to your home and see what you think about that. So can I answer any questions you might have? Have we seen that petition or is that, that's a no? Can we pass that to us? Concerns me is that we have no problem with the young man having a business. But as I told you, my father's business and he raised five kids as a barber. His barber shop was right downtown. I'm gonna tell you that when anybody came in, although there's one chair, the next person that came in needing a haircut, guess what he told them? You're next. If you had two people next, you're next. You're third, you got two people in front of you. So there's no such thing in a barber shop as saying, I'm only gonna let one person in the door. You know that, right? No such animal. I do have one question. Have you had a chance to talk to Mr. McFadden about this prior to today? Just make that in the street. I'm president of the community and I also have a business across Food and Ike Road. So it's not like, I have a lot of time and this has just been a busy, busy time with me. No, we haven't had an opportunity to talk to him but I'm sure that he knows and you know we do not want to change our residential area from residential to commercial and you let one commercial entity in and that means that anyone else coming with a desire to have a business in the community should have the opportunity also and we don't want the value of our homes going down. Okay, thank you for your testimony. Sure. Yeah, I'm sorry, Mr. Mender, yes sir. So you'll have, and we'll have a chance to ask questions for him but you have five minutes for a rebuttal. If you'd like to speak to that at all. Okay, I understand what Mr. Burgess is saying and I understand the barber industry. I've been cutting hair for almost 20 years but that's not my purpose because I'm only gonna have one person and they can park inside my driveway. I'm not looking to have two and three cars up and down the road. One car that's parked inside my driveway after it was cut, I don't have two or three people waiting to say, oh, you're next and it's not gonna be open to the public. It's not gonna be saying, oh, well, my friend got a barber shop, you can go but no, it doesn't work that way. I have respect for the neighbors and I love my neighbors. I don't have no problem with it. I just want to do this until I'm able to move forward. Right now, if anybody come through the neighborhood, they will understand it's a white neighborhood and it's no problem. You won't see a whole bunch of cars parked there and it's one, like I said, only one car in my driveway, no more than one person. I'm not looking to have two, three per people and waiting and stuff like that and staying open all night long. That's not my purpose. My purpose is to get people in on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, maybe like 4.30 to 7. On Friday, maybe like from up until four o'clock and that's it. I'm not trying to stay open, you cut hair all night and do that. Sure, okay. I think Mr. Sherard had a question for you, I'ma let him. I'm just curious as to why to go through this process instead of just doing it without causing a process and why did you choose to do it for me? Why did I choose to go through? The way I raise up, I want to do stuff in correct order. I don't want to do stuff like you have a lot of people going to coming through people houses in three or four people, you have waiting and stuff and I'm not looking to do that. I want to do things in order in the proper way. And like I said, I want to start as a, like I said, one chair, I want two and three people in the area. And so that's the reason I went through this challenge because I want to do stuff, lingo in the right way. Temporary execution, compliance, as you're doing that. What is this case, say more? Yes, I was in a building and all of a sudden I had a business partner and the guy decided to sell the building and it wasn't a big building and my partner, he was saying, okay, well, he decided to sell the building. So I said, well, it's nothing we can do about it. So my next thing was, I prayed about it and then I said, well, for a temporary part, just want to put here a one chair shop that I have people call and it's not a walk-in not advertising as a putting a barber pole, put hours on the door and stuff like that. And so I'm able to grow and then when I'm able to grow, I'm still not looking to get a big clientele, maybe looking to get just a little sweet with maybe about just me with maybe if I do have same, same process with maybe about two to three, if, yeah, thank you. I've got a question, sir. Sir? Mr. Mender. Mr. Mender, I have a question. Would you be willing to agree that you would only allow parking in your driveway, that you would not have any signage and that it would only be by appointment only? Yes ma'am, I would agree to sign any paper. Mr. Mender, I'm sorry. Do you know if there are any other barbers or beauty salons sort of within the neighborhood that are operating in a similar way? Not as I know of. I mean, it's if there is, it's probably in the two-notch row area in the area where it's a lot of walk-in clients and maybe like three or four barbers in the area, but as for, you know, other than that, I'm assuming in the area, I've seen, won't ride down the street and I've seen a barber hold and maybe by three or four and I don't know if it's open, but yes, further up two-notch. Microphone on. Do you plan to have employees? No, sir. We just do. Yes, ma'am. Okay. All right. Thank you. Floor is closed. Yep, you had your chance. Floor is closed, I'll allow one question. Okay, the sign was put up in the yard. The next morning, the sign was covered with a black garbage bag. That afternoon, the sign was totally removed. So a lot of people who would have been here today didn't come because they thought that this was rescinded, that everything was closed. Did you guys take the sign down? No, ma'am. All right, thank you for your question. Will you please be seated? We're about to move forward. Is that the norm? We did not do that. No, I'm gonna ask Eric, I'm gonna ask our zoning team if they knew of that once you sit down. The sign was removed the next day. Thank you for bringing that to our attention. Erica, do you know anything about that sign? The signs should not be removed. They're supposed to be posted like 15 days before the meeting. It's advertised in the Columbia Star and of course on the website, the agenda, the draft agenda. Were you aware of any issues with the sign? I didn't know the sign was down. Okay. Can I make an observation? Yeah. It would seem that we've certainly got evidence that there's plenty of people who were aware that this was going on and we have an extensive petition. So it didn't seem to lack for notice. But Erica, is that going to be an issue if the sign was removed? We posted the sign many times with rainstorms. They fall down. We might get notified. We replace them when we know. Mr. Mender, will you please come to the podium for another question? Did you know about the sign or did you remove the sign? Yes, sir. It was the sign placed. I came home and it was the sign in the middle of my yard. I took the sign and I kept the sign there but I just moved it in a different area and I still have the sign. And I moved it in a different area. I didn't have it in the middle of my yard because it was just whoever put it there, they put it in the middle of my yard just for my grass purpose and the way it meant. Where would you move it to? Yeah, where'd you move it to? Sir. Where did you move the sign to? I moved it right there by my driveway. It was the area right there where it can go in the ground, right there. Thank you. Let's see, sit down. This is a new one for me. What do we do when a sign's moved like that? If the sign's all the way back by his front door, as long as you can see it from the right away, if your driving number on it just needs to be seen, I hope it was somewhere that you can see. If it's in the backyard, obviously not good. But if it's somewhere in the front, it should be fine. Yeah, let's move. We're gonna move into board discussion for now. So let's open it up, yeah. Yeah, I'm in the habit of when we have on the agenda items to arrive by the locations, just to get a good idea. And I wrote down McFadden Street, I didn't see the sign at all. I knew from the address 1818 that it was the subsequent this case, but I didn't see it. I wanna make a suggestion that we maybe make a motion to defer this. It might allow Mr. Mender in the neighborhood to talk about this case a little bit more, but at the very least, it'll allow the sign to be properly displayed, the time, the 15 days leading up to the case. So, that's my suggestion. I'm gonna support that, John. It really makes me feel uncomfortable. I personally feel kind of weird because I see all these. I move that we defer so that it can be properly put, the sign may be properly posted. Okay, we have a motion. Davis, do you wanna make a comment before we ask for a second or? I agree to defer to allow the parties to speak. Do you wanna be the second? All right, we have them. So, what we're about to do, we're about to vote on deferring this a month. So, till next month's case, and Mr. Mender, if this carries, please don't touch the sign, and next time. Just let it be there. All right, we have a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right, motion carries. So, we're deferring it to next month. Thank you all. All right, moving on to the next special exception case. Is the applicant here to speak? All right, please come forward. My name's James Bigby, B-I-G-B-Y, and I'm here to get a special variance for a liquor store, retail liquor store, and the Pavlovs, the old Pavlovs building, which is located at 2000 B Green Street in Five Points. And I guess it's a special variance that I'm asking for. Special exception. Yeah, special exception, thank you so much. So, that's really what I'm hearing. I think I don't really have a fancy presentation or anything. I think I'm probably here more to answer concerns or questions from the panel and the public. Most of what I've heard from online has been good in the neighborhood. Let me just give you a history about myself. I operate Salty Nut Cafe, which is in the same parking lot. It's in the building right in front of the building where it's in question. I've operated for 20 years and it's a pretty good business. I also started Zyze, break up in Pizza on Divine Street in 97, and I sold it in 2015. I'm also a realtor with South Carolina realtor. So, that's my history. The building's in kind of in rush shape right now, but it's gonna be a total facelift, paint, all the doors, metal doors gonna be replaced with like panel glass, glass doors with, you know, like plate glass, door entry systems. The color is gonna be different, but it's gonna look a lot better than what it looks like now. Are y'all familiar with how it looks like? Okay, it's kind of a, yeah, it's kind of an eyesore. So, we've got that going on. So, it's gonna look more like a retail location, so to speak, then just a bar, the awning's gonna come down, get rid of that, and then part of the deck, the wood deck, it's gonna be replaced. I mean, taken out, it's gonna be demoed to make room for extra parking. That'll have probably five to eight designated spaces for the location. Biggest concern that I heard about, I think somebody online had said they were worried about the intersection there from on Green and Lawrence and the traffic coming in and out of there. We don't anticipate any traffic problems. I mean, we're thinking maybe five to 10 people an hour coming in, which is not all that much. I mean, it's not gonna be a Costco or anything like that. So, I don't anticipate any problems with any kind of traffic jams on Green Street. And there's also a secondary entrance on Bossam Street down by the railroad tracks. So, people can access it that way. So, that has three ingresses and egresses. What else? We're not gonna, as far as what we're gonna sell, we're just gonna sell liquor only, wine and liquor. We're not gonna do lottery tickets. And hours of operation are pretty standard. You said you're also gonna do wine? Yeah, so you can do wine and liquor on one side and then maybe you can do beer on the other side. You have to have two separate entrances. So, it's gonna be kind of like a Morgan Alley's. I don't know if you're familiar with Morgan Alley's and Forest Acres. And I think it's gonna be a good addition to five points. There's not a liquor store in five points at this time. Any questions? Javay, yes. Oh yeah, that's kind of on the edge. And then there's one on Harden and Rosewood. And that one's kind of not really in five points. That's, and then the other one would be greens down on Javay. And they also sell wine at the Gourmet Shop. I'm sorry. Don't they sell wine at the Gourmet Shop? I think they might have a wine, retail wine in there. I think so. But our main focus is gonna be on the bottled liquor. But we will have a wine selection. And you will have beer also? Well, we'll have enough space on the other side. You have to have two separate entrances. So part of it, about 800 square feet, we're gonna use this temporary storage. And then if things go well, we might look at opening up selling beer on that side. But we don't intend to, you have to go through a whole another process of getting a whole another liquor license and this totally different liquor license to do that. And we've been approved by the Sacramento Department of Revenue for a conditional approval. And so what they do is they send sled out and they have to look at the building and they have to look at your floor plan. And it's basically gotta look like a liquor store. I mean, it can't be selling anything else out of it. You can only have certain entrances, certain number of public accesses into the building. So it's, they're gonna have to come out and approve it. And it's pretty regulated. Is there gonna be designated parking for the liquor store versus Salty Nut that's got signage showing that? Yes, there'll be, where the deck is now, we're gonna cut that demo about half that deck back to the cupboard area. And there'll be five to eight additional parking spaces right there to be labeled four tillies. So that'll be signs over there for that. Why aren't you taking the whole deck out? There's part of it that's covered. And so we don't really know. It's kind of, if we don't need to take it out, we're not really gonna take it out at this point. Now, if we take out half of it and it doesn't look right, we'll end up taking the rest of it out. This is gonna see, we won't really know how it's gonna look until we take out the front half that's not covered. But if you leave it there, then that provides a place for people to loiter? No, there's not gonna be any loitering. And we'll make sure that there's 20, that the building has 22 cameras on it. And so right now, and we can always add more of it, it's so close to there, it's not gonna, we're not gonna have tables and chairs out there, anything like that. So, you know, just, I guess for a lack of tearing it all out at once, I guess we can just tear it back. But we can always put a door there to where people can't get on it, can't access it. And the only thing I'm gonna need to access it is we're pulling something out of storage. My question's more, not really with the building, but with the use, if you talked to USC or some of the neighborhoods around you at all and we'll spend their feedback. Yes, I did. I told them, Five Points Association sent me a email and with all the heads of the surrounding neighborhoods, I think there was about five or six of them. And she just encouraged me to send out an email to all the presidents or the, whoever's the head of the associations. And I did that. Shandon, I guess it's Wheeler Hill, a couple of other ones, can't remember them all, but. And I explained in my email exactly kind of our plans. And if anybody had any, I wanted to talk to you about it on an individual basis or had any questions or concerns to email me or call me. I put my phone number on there. And so I haven't received any calls or any emails back with any kind of concerns. I talked to Heather McDonald at the Five Points Association earlier today, around 12. And she indicated that she was not getting any blowback or any kind of concerns. And that they were pretty much Five Points Association is, they're fine with it. John, I'd like to at this point say, I am the president of the University Hill Neighborhood Association. When I got the email, I immediately looped in our vice president, John McGill, and removed myself from all discussion about it. So I don't know what my neighborhood's position is on this one way or the other. Okay. So that's a Laurel Hill, that's a. Bristol Hill. University Hill, okay, yeah, I know that is, yeah. So, we're not gonna sell the cheap, cheap, I guess, high alcohol content, liquors in small bottles, people brown bag and for media consumption, as soon as they walk out the door, that's just not, I mean, I'm in the business right in front of it. So it's like, I'm not gonna do anything that's gonna jeopardize my business. It is just, that would just be, that wouldn't be a wise thing to do. Thank you, Mr. Bigby. Does anybody have any questions for him before we, all right, thank you very much. Okay, thank you. All right, is there anyone here from the public that wishes to speak against? Yes, sir, Mr. Daniel. Mr. Chairman, members of the board, I'm Jim Daniel, I live in the Wheeler Hill Neighborhood Association. I think you have received a copy of the letter to I sent, I sent to the FOI person to the city of Columbia on Tuesday, requesting information on Mr. Bagley, Mr. Bagley, Pavelos, JCB Operating Company and JCB Operating Company Inc. From 1997 to 2010. I have not received a response and I'm assuming it's gonna be several weeks before we do that. So I would ask for postponement of this matter until we get a response from them. Just historical, I'm President Wheeler Neighborhood Association. I don't remember getting anything from Mr. Bigby. I've chatted with Wells Gardening and Rosewood, Hollywood Hills and they didn't mention anything. But be that as it may, this location and this operator have a pretty notorious history in five points. Pavelos was one of the worst young barters for young students in Columbia. They called Putland and led the charge along with the neighborhoods around five points to close this bar and others like it that weren't following the South Carolina Constitution that required any facility selling alcohol, liquor, had to have a substantial revenue from food service, which we understand is at least 50%. That's why the eight bars in most cases all got closed. We'd like to find out more information about this individual. I think we're sort of putting an individual who had some control over Pavelos for 13 years down into the liquor store business in an area that the neighborhoods are really trying to clean up. And we think we've already got a liquor store at the corner of Rosewood and Hardin. There's the huge one at Greens. There are two on Rosewood and we don't see a need for another one at this location. So I think at this point in time, we would request for deferment to hear back from the city's police department. And it's also a little problematic to get neighborhoods to move quickly on anything. So that's what we have in a nutshell. I can go through item by item. If you want me to. But I think at this point in time, I just ask for a deferment rather than going through the eight or 10 things we think are other issues. Mr. Daniel. I reserve the right if y'all decide not to defer to come back with the other six or seven items I have some issue with at this location. Okay, we'll carve that out. Mr. Bigby, do you wanna, or before you come up, anybody else from the public wish to comment? Yes, sir. Good afternoon. Will you please set your name for the record? My name is Dan Douglas. And I just want to point out some of the things that James has talked to you about. The fact that he's got the Salty Nut Cafe and he said 20 years, I think it's actually been more than that. But this has been a good business, not only for college students, but also young professionals that eat their lunch and dinner. The idea of the parking and the hours of operation for this liquor store will work perfectly with his restaurant that the liquor store will be closed at seven o'clock. And then that's pretty much the time that the Salty Nut Cafe starts their largest portion of their business during the day. There's been a big push from these neighborhoods in the area to close bars, to close Pav Lives. And that was done, but James is talking about wanting to have a retail establishment there that will compliment what he has in the front from a parking standpoint, a traffic standpoint. Any kind of retail in a 3,600 square foot building is gonna increase traffic a bit. But as James pointed out with this liquor store concept, it's not gonna be any tremendous volume of people all at one particular time. It's gonna be spread out over the course of the day. And he mentioned the idea of removing a portion of the deck, but not all of the deck. And I think one of the reasons for maintaining a portion of the deck is that there's a beautiful historic tree in the side of the deck that would remain. But that was the main thing is the, and then the building improvements itself. I mean, obviously now it's an eyesore at college kids didn't care what it looked like when they went in there to have their drinks and James is gonna have pride in ownership of this establishment and want to do business with the adjoining neighborhoods. And so it will be improved, the facade will be improved tremendously to coincide with those potential clients. That's about all we have time for. All right, thank you. Yeah, I appreciate it. All right, anybody else wish to speak from the public? Yes, sir, please come forward. All right, we'll swear you in real quick. Let's do this. Do you affirm or attest that testimony you will give today is a truth and nothing but the truth? I do. All right, thank you. Can you please state your name for the record? My name is Joseph Cardinale. I am the owner of Enzo's Italian Specialties in Bargaral Sasso right next door to Salty Nut. And I think this is a terrible idea. On a nightly basis, people come out of Salty Nut, they throw beer bottles at our windows while customers are inside of our restaurant dining. Kids urinate on the hill down to the parking lot in between our two buildings. People vomit, people use our patio at night as a toilet. And I just think this is that idea. I've spent 60 to 100 hours a week in that location for the last 34 months. And I feel like I've single-handedly chased off most of the vagrants, the homeless and the drunks and the drug addicts from that area. I purchased the five points tobacco shop next door because they were selling drug paraphernalia, crack pipes, all sorts of terrible things, lottery. The police no longer come to calls when homeless people interact with my guests, when they assault my staff or they damage our property. So I feel like I've done a lot of work to make five points a bit better. And I think that having a liquor store close to that is gonna be, just make it so much worse. With the train tracks right there and all the hidden areas, we have a huge problem with vagrants in the area. And I think just having open access to liquor during the daytime is gonna make that situation much worse and have a negative impact on the neighborhoods and my businesses. Any questions for, yeah. Students being students. I'm just curious what specifically do you think would contribute to, based on your knowledge, a distance? Yeah, I think that I'm not too concerned about the students because the kids will be kids, but the people that come to five points at night to panhandle or to cause trouble or they're just coming to have a good time, the homeless people, the vagrants, they can go purchase liquor at this liquor store and there's a million places to hide or loiter or walk around. People regularly walk out of the Salty Nut every night with open containers and go right down the street. The bouncers do not stop them. They throw glass at the windows of my store. I sweep them up and I dump them back on their patio every night. I just think that having, this will exacerbate the loitering problem and the substance abuse issues that take away from what people like myself are trying to do in five points to improve the neighborhood. Anybody else from the public wish to speak on this? All right, Mr. Bigby, you got five minutes to, for a buttle for any of those comments. Okay, thank you. First, I'd like to address the JCB operating company and then my top laws. JCB operating company was the parent company for Salzburg coming pizza, opened up in 97. I kept the corporation dormant just in case I wanted to start another business. So I kept the corporation and get standing with Secretary of State. So that's the shell company that, or not the shell company, but the company that I'll be using. As far as being involved with PAV laws, I sold it back in 2010. I was, I subleased it to the guys that had it since then and it was recently closed. I did not have anything to do with their operations. I did not try to tell them how to run their business. They were late night bar, so they didn't open up till like eight o'clock and they closed. I guess I think they could stay up and pass two o'clock in the morning. Selfie night. We don't stay up and pass two o'clock in the morning. Most nights we're closed by 12 o'clock unless it's a busy weekend, like a football weekend or something. We'll stay up and do last call at like 1.30. But most of the, like I said, most of the time we're closed right at midnight or just after midnight. As far as the students walking up and down the street, I mean, they're coming, they can be coming from five points back up till. Now, as far as the vagrants go, we'll do, I mean, we're gonna do our best. I don't want vagrants or homeless hanging out in our parking lot or in the railroad tracks. And if we see that kind of activity, I mean, remember, we're gonna be closed at seven o'clock. So if we see any kind of activity, somebody leaving the purchase in a bottle of liquor and leaving and then going up under the railroad tracks or any place around there, we'll take care of it and we won't sell them, we won't sell them anymore with liquor. But I really don't think that's gonna happen. So I think, I just think it's a little exaggerated. And if we can always put a fence up by that railroad track, clean out some of the brush around it, but I don't think that's gonna be necessary. All right, this time I'm gonna move into board discussion. Yeah, Catherine, you wanna start us off? Oh, yes. Just for the record, I got the email and as I mentioned, I got it. The email went to info at five points, Columbia, me, Viv Clark at bellsouth.net, abp2009yahoo.com, F-Adams408, who I believe is Frank Adams from Wales Garden, Will Brennan and Erica. So that's who got the email. I came here of two minds. I asked one of the local law enforcement people what his opinion was and he pointed out that, well, something's gonna go there so this is less offensive than other things that could go there. I am very concerned about a number of things. I'm particularly concerned about the Bar Sassow testimony. That really got me and I appreciate your coming and telling us your take on it. I'm not overly, I'm a little concerned that there are open containers leaving Salty Nut that he's seen leaving the Salty Nut. That weighs against the idea that it's gonna be a responsible thing because you are running the Salty Nut. I'm very concerned about that. I think there's a real evidence that this could actually create a nuisance condition because of that. I'm concerned that, I mean, I don't understand the part about how there's a tree there so you can't demolish the deck. That doesn't quite make any sense. I'm a little concerned that you weren't aware that there was a liquor store at Hardin and Jervais. It's been there for a while now. And I'm also concerned, I mean, I have been at Greens. I used to collect Salvation Army money, stuff for the Rotary at Christmastime and Greens is crazy. It's pretty high traffic. I've only occasionally been to Morganellis but I think that this is possibly a more concerning thing in part because we don't have a commitment that there won't be a beer side and there is gonna be wine being sold. And I think that he says he's going to be selling high into the liquor but there's no assurance that that in fact will be the case if somebody were to start selling, the little pint bottles that you see the people at Greens coming out with on a Saturday night could be a way that he pivots his business to without having to come back to us in any way. So I'm concerned about all of those things. I'm very concerned about the traffic issues. I mean, it really is kind of a hairy area in that area. I know that a lot of times people when the train comes through, they drive down there to go to Blossom Street because then they can go into the underpass and it's a pretty hairy drive back in there. So I'm just really concerned about a number of things, particularly I'm concerned about the traffic. I think they do seem to have plenty of parking but I'm concerned about vehicular traffic and also pedestrian safety. I'm concerned about a potential nuisance. And we do know that there is a wine store over at the gourmet shop. So I think that there is a certain proliferation in that regard as well. So those are my concerns. Marcella, did you get any thoughts? Thanks, Captain. Davis, what you got? I think the concern for traffic in the parking lot and surrounding area. I mean, I'm just looking through the principal use table here. I mean, this building could be a grocery store which I think would probably create about the same amount of traffic. It's permitted use there. So I think that kind of changes my opinion on the traffic issue. I don't know if anybody else has a point on that. I think the traffic on your day-to-day normal business is pretty low. It's those like peak times, you know, day-to-day. That, I mean, that's when you're, you know, when I drive by greens, you know, two o'clock in the afternoon, that's no big deal. So I think it's just being cognizant of the peak times. Yeah, I think, I think I hear what you're saying is more of a traffic issue, which is really my main concern. Because I think, I think what, when it comes to what we're doing here, especially section, that particular property fix, according to our rules, it's consistent with the care that they're intended to analyze on the district. That's there. I mean, there's two convenience stores within blocks from that location at both sale, not home. Not liquor, but beer. That's been over four years. The college mark, we have one in the show, that section, we have another one. In addition to the gourmet shops on the line, I think it gourmet retail, I think a retail liquor store fits right within the character of that. So I'm not as concerned about whether or not this fits that area, because it does. I'm more concerned, I think, about the traffic. Because one of the things that we know about, and at least I know about liquor stores, whether it's out in my greens, whether it's out in my mullionettes, whether it's out in my clothes on the roadsway, when it's hot traffic, it is crazy. And that's all in a really, really tight area. That's where the two lanes there is. One lane going down, and then split the two lanes to get to the light, going towards Hardin, and then it's two lanes going across that train track there. So it's, I just can't, I'm having a hard time trying to figure out how that location gonna handle that type of traffic on high game days, on Friday afternoon, Saturday afternoons, because what we see at a place that has a part of our biggest greens or a place that has a part of our biggest mullionettes, it's a traffic jam. And I just can't imagine what that traffic jam would do there on the two lanes. So I think that's one thing that I'm just not quite understanding how they're gonna deal with it, is when it comes to the parking of this area, how the provision's gonna be made for parking, especially considering what David said, is even if you clear that area behind, that's a little tiny room right there, isn't it? Enough for traffic. You only have really one inch that you can manipulate there. I'm just, unless they tear something up down, and make it all park, I'm really confused about it. I like to something not. I'm just confused about how they have, because I'm kind of a David's man. I'm not sure how they're gonna park on this one. I think my comment was more geared towards the concern about parking, and the use of the space being a liquor store with people coming and going, spending 15 minutes in the store and leaving, and you compare it to some of the other approved permitted uses in the space, like a grocery store, for example, that's a very similar time spent in the store, probably almost the same amount of people coming and going. So that was sort of what I was. But I don't see the same traffic jam as the food line on Fridays, as I just asked you, I'm working out these in groups. Can I go to Moynihan's in groups? Oh, it's a must. Interesting. I also would suggest that it would be an extremely small grocery store. It'd probably be more on the lines of Uncle Willys than, yeah, Uncle Willys or something like that. I mean, a cute greengrocer there might be fine, but I think it'd be an extremely small grocery store. And my thoughts on it are looking at the use in the property, which is what we're here to do, look at the use. I do think it's a nuisance, and I think it's, I do think it adversely affects the public interest. There's been a whole lot of effort and five points to clean it up and to attract different types of businesses. And this is definitely not a bar, liquor store, a different concept, but it's sort of along the same lines. And I just, I don't know, I just have a hard time thinking that we're moving forward if we were to approve something like this, but that's why we have a board. That's why y'all vote on it. I think it's definitely a move forward. I said, I think it's a move forward as compared to, you know, a late night. I agree, I think it's a move forward. But at the same time, it's a greengrocer. Yeah, right now it's a storage place. And what has moved in since Senator Harputlian so graciously assisted in challenging the liquor licenses, what's moved in, we've seen a significant increase in shops. I mean, true shops like used to be, you know, we've had- Some office space to- Yeah, office space, but also just like people, you can go in and buy gifts and things and stuff like that, which I think is just really a nice thing to see coming back. And I'm concerned that, I mean, what's there now is actually storage, it's not ABLOB. So I mean, storage is a relatively low impact thing. And maybe that's a use for it. I mean, if they want to put a greengrocer in, I think that'd be nifty, but I don't see that happening. But yeah, I think I'm really coming down against it. And like I said, I was very concerned when I heard from Gran Sasa, some of the things that he testified to that he's seen and he's there and running a good business and trying to clean the place up. All the bar to shop transitions have not been entirely six. Well, yes, there has been an uptick in vape stores. Yes. Yes, that's right. Well, when I was at USC, I went to the joyful alternative, an incredibly wonderful store. But in any way, just bring it back, please. I mean, I'd get back to like what the Gran Sasa was saying is I think there's definitely a concern for vagrants and homelessness and drunk people in five points. I mean, I've had run-ins in the middle of the day walking to get coffee. And I think when I look at the issue that five points just has to deal with that's there, when there's no stores there. And I would argue that this parcel that we're talking about has done their part in trying to fend off some of the vagrants from at least luring on their property with the 22 cameras, like they said, to keep people away. And I think taking a building that is sitting vacant and potentially has hiding spots or people and turning it into an active business like it used to be, I think would enhance their property. But I also realize that that would potentially push people down the street and affect the neighborhoods and the neighboring businesses as well. I go back to the testimony we heard that people are leaving the salty nut with open containers. The fact that there are cameras is nifty, but it doesn't appear that that's doing anything to actually change, to use, they're not being seen, they don't seem to be being used for actual enforcement purposes. You can see things with a camera, but somebody has to do something about it. And it doesn't seem that someone's doing that. I think that Barstasso is a real upgrade to the area. I think that, you're right, some of the businesses are not as upscale as one might like, but there have been other businesses that have moved in. Various gift shops are coming in. They're not gift shops with clothing establishments and retail, true retail in that regard. I'm just really, I think it's a really bad thing. I think that there's a lot of ingress, egress issues. I think that, I think Mr. Daniel mentioned in his letter that we got earlier, the issue of what happens when the train comes through and you're trying to turn left or right to get in. I mean, it's a real problem. Traffic, traffic comes back to traffic, I think is one huge thing. And I'm also concerned about the nuisance aspect of it. I think that people do come to a liquor store and some of them are not necessarily looking to buy a Lagovulin or something like that, I think. And I think that, so I'm very concerned about that. Yeah, and I mean, I just, I'm with you, Catherine. I don't like the use of this location, but that's just, that's my thoughts. I like the nuisance effect in the public interest and all the effort and work. I mean, sometimes you gotta make hard decisions and I get it, like I'm a pro business minded person, but there's been a lot of effort and work to try to clean up five points. And I just don't think approving a liquor store right in the middle of it. I don't think it would support all that effort. And that's just my opinion, so. I'd like to make a motion. Yeah, let's hear it. I move that we deny the special exception application. I guess I don't actually have to give any reasons, but we specifically citing the issues with traffic, potential nuisance, and I think that's probably enough, specifically with reference to the traffic and the potential nuisance and adverse impact on public safety and creating nuisance conditions. All right, we have a motion. Do we have a second? Have a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? Nay. Nay. All right, so split three three. I believe it fails because the applicant has to meet the burden of proof. So do we need to keep moving until we have a motion and a voice call vote? Do we have a motion and a second? And we're gonna do a voice call vote. So start with Marsalis. I vote yay to deny. I vote nay to deny. Yay. Nay. Nay. I believe the applicant has failed to meet the burden of proof. Yeah, let's sum it up like that. Well, we have a turning, noted attorney, Mr. Harputlian. Based on the three three, it wouldn't need an affirmative. So the application is denied. Okay, moving to the next case, the guy rolled off the consent agenda to the regular agenda. I believe this was 517 Windmap Drive, is that correct? Is the applicant here? Okay, we please, yes sir. State your name for the record. My name is Dan Creed with Heritage Engineering. If it pleases the board, I'll speak briefly on the site design. And then the applicant, Mr. Chaudhry-Shaddee, can speak to the mission of the place of worship and what he's trying to do in the community. This site was originally developed as a mosque in the early 2000s. In your case history, you'll see that it was a special exception for a place of worship was granted in 2016. As part of that, which we were not the engineer on, the site was master planned, the drainage, the grading and everything went in at that time to support this building, which is now coming in this phase. As part of this, you can see by the site plan or by the other information in the case that to the south is Amberley Drive and the school to the west is remaining campus property for the church to the north is Windmap Drive beyond an undeveloped portion of the campus. And then to the east is a similarly-zoned property which fronts on Fairfield Road. I look forward to the opportunity to address specific concerns that neighbors may have. But I'll note that the buffer requirements of the new land development ordinance require a 40-foot buffer, which is shown on our site plan, which we propose to reduce in some areas to 20 feet with a six-foot wall, which will also include an elevation difference because this building will set down lower, close to the grade of Amberley Drive and lower than the surrounding properties. And Mr. Siddique can speak to the commission of the church. Thank you, Mr. Creed. In case we have any. Good afternoon, Mr. Siddique. Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to explain a little bit about our place of worship. My last name is Sadiq, or you could say Sadiq is fine. And this name means truthful. So while speaking about the place of worship, we talk of the faith, the faith of Islam and how we practice the faith. And more importantly, when you put our faith in practice, that is our problems. So we, as Dan said, we've existed there for almost 20 years. Our operation started in the month of Ramadan 2004. And ever since we've gradually taken care of we've catered for the spiritual and religious requirement as well as in the USA, back home in the Islamic world, you would have mosques and you'd have your homes here. Mosque is everything. That means you have your place of worship, you have a complete way of life. So our youth, our families, everyone is, so that's a part of our mosque. Now, our 20 years have been extremely peaceful. We have grown gradually and our neighbors as well as same. We've tried to understand our neighbors, get in direction. Now, for the last four years, Dan has been a part of our, you could say, infrastructure program and the city officials as well as us, we've gone, it's been very, very smooth, wonderful. But when I said about my faith, Islam, Islam literally means peace. And Muslim means one who has got peace within and without. And also the second meaning of Muslim is one who surrenders to the will of Almighty. It's very interesting, meaningful and also relevant that in this place six, seven years ago, Mayor Benjamin re-recognized our Muslim community leaders and he threw an event, particularly with a dinner. And as a reply or in response, I suggested and Mayor Benjamin and I, we stood in 2017 in this council chamber, August chamber, and we had this event. We co-hosted the event, both Mayor Benjamin, myself, an event called Understanding Islam and Muslims. So it was extraordinary. And the same event, which is called a program or presentation called Understanding Islam and Muslims, we've taken it to places from churches, to synagogues, to town halls, and they've been just record, basically. After the pandemic, we have focused on to law enforcement agencies. All of them, the Columbia Police Department, that means we've taken that program, they're there and they love it. It could be called diversity training, but more importantly, understanding Islam and Muslims because truthfully, truly saying, because of reasons, you know, that they're known as like media and all whatever. Islam and Muslims are under radar, so it's important. And so I have been here 20 years plus, 20 years plus, and I've seen nothing but reception for this and total universal accepting of this program from Columbia Police Department to Sheriff's Department. I know FBI would never listen to an outsider speaking about Islam, they have their own experts, but we were able to have our first program recently after the pandemic with the FBI. Not only Columbia, but beyond FBI Columbia, FBI Chicago, a huge office invited us and we did the presentation there. Let's just take last four or five months. Last Saturday, we had an event at our mosque. These are the programs and services. We have a family night every month and the family night last Saturday, we had a mini seminar on joining our law and first place career. The Columbia Police Department and the Sheriff's Department represented sled and FBI could not make it. In fact, we are blessed, again I shall be blessed, and my son is an FBI. So he's an FBI Chicago. So he came on the video, virtually participated, so it was just wonderfully accepted. Month of February, we had Black History Month. Right after that, we had what the Sheriff's Department brought in their Citizens Academy to our place of worship. They called it a Muslim Citizens Academy. So that was it. And month of Ramadan, which was March, we had sharing in Ramadan. So all in all, we have been indeed, putting our faith in action. That we also stated, you have internet with you, mosque is like place of worship. And our face is a parallel, our partner organization called PICNA, P-I-C-N-A, PICNA.org is censored for Peace and Integration Council of North America. So all the programs that I mentioned are presented by PICNA, which we had here as well. So the bottom line is PICNA programs will show us in 20 years what we've done. One, and I, most with reservations and hesitation, I say that our efforts of Interfaith Harmony have been not only recognized, but an appreciated 24th of April, a large, very well-recognized organization, charity organization. They were generous enough to award me a Compassion Award. That was on behalf of the mosque, whatever little humble service we did for PICNA, on behalf of PICNA and the mosque. So by and large, we've had that very positive effect and we hope that these are programs and services will grow. In fact, nothing is going to change in the neighborhood except that it'll transform the image, the shape and the look of the place. We have a little house just on the parcel. It's a small house, brick house, and we put a white, beautiful fence. So it just has changed the landscape completely. So with this nice, wonderful-looking building, our greenery that we have, our soccer field, already we have the two basketball courts. It's landscaping, and Dan knows, we're putting a community garden. So all of the people will gather there in, sort of, you know, and then we finally say, in creating a harmony. We call it, for the last seven, eight years, since Governor Nikki Haley, she started this, which every month, every year, January, month of January has been celebrated in Colombia as Interfer Hardman Month, and we play with our partners and the mosque has always had it. So all in all, we're really looking forward to not only changing the outlook and the image, transforming the image, also adding value to the properties there and beautifying the place. We are truthful, and we will live by every word, every promise that we made, and we, you know, our record will show that. So we here request and appeal that the special exception may be granted. If anyone in the neighborhood, for example, we recently met, and we've met with the principal, the new principal, will be absolutely welcoming and inviting our neighbors and to have open houses and all that, and if anyone has an individual who's not met us or is not aware of that, we'll be sort of, you know, made comfortable. One last story, which is literally, and I told so many stories, and it's not public, so I can give it out. Town of Armon, the former mayor, Mayor Hardy King, he put a copy pasted in an article which was negative to Islamic Muslims. Because of part record, interfaith leaders took exception to it, so bottom line is we didn't. We didn't do anything negative. We invited him to the mosque, and the way we treated the result was, when he asked him, he said, Chaudhary, do your colleagues know what I've done? I said, yes, that is why we invited you. The result was they asked him only one question. So, Mayor, Mr. Mayor, would you co-host a program on Islam in your town hall? He did that, and that event was overflow, and the news went local, regional, and international. I rest my cheese. Thank you, Chaudhary. Let me, I want to ask you a question, yeah. Can I ask the engineer a question, I think? We have questions. We have questions. Let me ask you, I just want to ask a question. So you're going, and currently you've got two structures on there, 1,200 and 4,000 square feet, and you're building a 16,000 square foot building, correct? That's what you're trying to do? The 60,000 plus, minus, is the main building, yes. Is that replacing it, or in addition to? In addition to. So you're going from 12,000 plus square feet to? No, 4,000, 4,000, and a 12,000, so 5,200, and then adding, well, what my question was getting to is like, that seems like a, it's just, yeah, it's just, I mean, that's a nice size building. So my question was going to be like, how many active participants do you have in your? Excellent question. As I said, the number has grown gradually, and that is what, the natural growth of numbers. For example, we will have, at any given time, and Friday services, we'll have 250 people. But this building will have an event hall where we can have the events, and it can cater for 400 to 500 people. When during the week, like what days of the week, and excuse my ignorance with Islam, but what days during the week will you have people? Yeah, this is Friday, our weekly services on Fridays. Fridays. On Fridays currently. So right now we have about 250 people, and it'll gradually grow. And we have sufficient, we have nine acre parcels and according to Dan was. So Fridays are your big data. Yeah, everything is arranged. Everything is peaceful. In fact, the law enforcement being a very active partner, they make arrangements, nice parking. School sometimes, it's just positive. School sometimes they have events there, their traffic overflow comes into our area, and we'll do vice-versa as well. And I think I heard you correctly, but you'll have police, like direct and traffic on Fridays when you're there. Yeah, we have two accesses, one on rentment, one on amberly, and it's just pretty smooth. Okay, I'll just notice in the increase. And so what, y'all had a question? I think I got my question answered. If I can only clarify, the program that are going on, the building, it will be basically, we will be carrying on the same program in a more organized manner. And just like augmenting each component, for example, we have a Bible school, which is a Quran school. So it's now currently a smaller one. It'll go into this building. Secondly, interfaith friendship, interfaith and friendship center. We're gonna have a proper center where more people can come and sort of ask about this, and you know, the same compassion. Arislam is love, mercy, and compassion. And we intend increasing this. Yeah, I'll come back up. Do you have a question, Mr. Sherrod? Okay, thank you, Mr. Sadek. Yeah, you'll have a chance to come back up with somebody from the public space, yeah. The picture on the, could you have been a box located on this? Well, if you see the building where the place mark is in the blue patio southeast of it, that cleared area, which is basically a graded area, is more or less where the building will sit. Yes, yes. Okay, so the structure that I'm looking at on the image on the screen, which has a Google map that has a new location. To the southeast of that structure. Thank you. Thank you. All right, do we have any other questions before we ask anyone from the public can speak? Okay. Can I ask another question of the engineer? Yeah, Mr. Creed. On the site plan, they provide, on this aerial, the drive connects between Winmet and Amberley. But on the site plan, it doesn't necessarily appear that that connection would be maintained. It will be maintained. It's, you can see the, it's the striping. Right, it starts and then it goes from. Yes, you can see, you're correct. It's confusing the way it's striped. In that parking lot coming from Winmet would imply that there would not be connectivity. There would, there's no improvements to proposing that area. So that connectivity will be retained. Anyone from the public wish to speak on this matter? Yes, ma'am. I'm Monica Woods. I'm a resident. I brought my home back in 1996. So I've been there for 27 years in this particular neighborhood. I'm not sure exactly where the interest of this mosque would be. If it's on Glenthorne Road, that is because they property, I think, in that Glenthorne and Amberley, and part of Amberley too, right now is down on the hill across from Alcon Middle School, which is fine. But if they come up that hill, now you're getting into residential areas. And I don't see that, that would bring our value of our homes up. And also the noise, he said it was no noise, but sometimes they'd be out there till 11 o'clock at night. Sometimes you hear fireworks, different things, which is no problem now, but the further they come up is not good for our neighborhood. And also the traffic, they had something during school hours and the traffic was terrible and they can have 200 cars out there in that property that's entering that property. And you cannot get out. They already, on women drive, they have an interest there and they have an interest on Amberley. They don't need an interest at Glenthorne Road. I don't think they're proposing that. Okay, that's my very concern. This plan here is still gonna be coming up or right across from Alcon Middle. I can't read that. Okay, so. It's easier to see on the image than it is on the sign. Yeah, so my only concern is Glenthorne Road and part of Amberley, because it's two houses that sits back there, two. And we don't wanna look out our house at our windows and see a big building. You know, it's wooded now. It's Northwood Hills. That's the name of the neighborhood, Northwood Hills. We don't wanna look out our door and see a big building in our neighborhood. And that would be the case because I'm right there. I took a picture of you, I know y'all probably can't see it, but I took a picture before I left home at the stop sign. So if I was to look at my window, I would see their building. If they come any further up or cut down trees and stuff like that. So that was my only concern. And it is a lot of traffic down here and no, they don't have any police direct in traffic when it is something going on down there. They don't have any police directing. They haven't been terrible or anything like that, but sometimes it do get noisy and sometimes they're out there to late hours in the night. I don't know what event that is, but sometimes they're out there to 11 o'clock. Better or later. And so that's my only concern. The change in the outlook of our neighborhood, you know. Yeah. You're Glen Thorne and Amberley sort of? Glen Thorne and Amberley. Yeah, so yeah. What is that? The upper left. Top left, behind it. Top left. This way. Okay. Yeah. I see Glen Thorne. Yeah, so and you know, all of Glen Thorne, you know, I know they property six sits on a back of Glen Thorne road and, you know, and that's where our neighborhoods start. So, and my husband cleaned up that area. I think he cleaned up some of their area, actually. The other day, he cleaned up that road coming up there to our neighborhood. So we're, I'm sorry. I'm gonna make a comment just because, and I don't mean to cut you off, but just because it's hard to see on the site plan and hard to see up here, but and I might need Mr. Creed to confirm it, but just to address some of your concerns with the buffering. So the in the access, the access, I mean, when met and directly across from Elkhorn, but then they have on the site plan, a 40 foot buffer yard around the entire property. So. What is a buffer yard? What is that? Trees. Trees. There's gotta be a buffer. They can't put anything in that area. So they cannot cut down any more trees, is what you're telling me? It's a little, well, but they can't cut, they have to leave a 40 foot wide thing of trees. Which is pretty deep. Well, there's a difference in buffering and screening. And so that's, all right. Before I just, because I kind of cut you off. Let me, let me, I'll give you another minute. And then Jim, but. So when you turn on Feffer Road, off Feffer Road onto Amberley, maybe a block down, you can turn into today on a property. That's down the hill. But once you start coming up that hill, you're in a neighborhood. And we don't want that to be, you know, we want it to stay like it is. Yeah. Yeah. So them there is no problem. It's the placement of what they're trying to do. Come. Yeah. And we're here to approve the use, not the official site plan. The site plan helps us approve the use, so that's, we're here to approve or deny the use specifically. And then leave it up to the city and staff to approve the site plan. So. And I think it's actually the expansion of the use. Is that correct, Erica? Is he expanding the building that he already has? Yes. The current, yeah, the current use is there, but they are expanding it significantly, but in the other direction from your neighborhood. So, but yeah. So, could you add them, is that towards Fairfield Road, or that's towards Fairfield Road? There you go. See that big bottle of sand behind it? That's where they need to go. So they can close it in Fairfield Road. Yeah. And it's gonna be a, it's gonna be a gentleman. Can we get, can we get the picture of the elevation? Yeah. Yeah, there you go. That's what you're gonna see from Fairfield Road. Can you see up there? Okay, from Fairfield Road, not Glenthorn Road. Correct. Okay. Glenthorn or Amberley. That's correct. That's my only concern. That's correct. I think you're gonna look, it's gonna look the same for you. It's, this is what you'll see from Fairfield Road, which I think is actually kind of nice looking. Their property is very minimal that actually touches Glenthorn. There's a completely different property owner that occupies most of that block. Okay. All right, thank you. All right, thank you guys. Not to show you concern yet, thank you. All right, Mr. Sadek, do you wanna come back up here for, you have five minutes between you and Mr. Creed, if you'd like it. Surely. You don't have to use it all. Thank you. Thank you for giving me this opportunity again. Dan Creed will sort of confirm of any technical features, but I've been there almost, almost, the mosque has been 20 years. I've been there 20 years, literally, and with all respect to our neighbor and friend, the lady. I've gone on Amberley and driven on the winmet, and I live on the winmet, but towards Glenthorn on Amberley, I don't think I've ever passed, ever gone, except once when we were trying to clear that little area. So maybe once or twice. So none of our cars, it's not that it's forbidden, none of our cars goes beyond the entrance on Amberley, that is towards Glenthorn or towards none of us. Absolutely, that's the matter of fact. I am highly grateful to her for pointing out sometimes late evenings, there is a little bit. The late evening prayer ends about 10, 10, 30. Yes, once or twice we have celebrations, like we call it each celebrations, one after Ramadan, the other around pilgrimage time, it's gonna come up in a month. So we can have our community gathering, but we'll try to keep them, no, sorry, this is kids and everybody there, and our neighbors are also welcome. So we'll try, we'll be very orderly, we are orderly because we have to take care of everyone, the whole family. So noise level will be taken care of. Everything else happens in daytime, and in the evenings it's the only prayer. Our weekly service is on Fridays only, and that's daytime, that's daytime. So as far as traffic is concerned, Glenthorn, we hardly touch that area. We were talking about the buffer zone, you already explained. Now landscaping is going to be further added. There's gonna be more trees, more green. Yes, we did cut out some area in the beginning, but we have to augment that in order to meet the requirement of the landscaping department. So in all earnestness, we will try to keep, not only keep the beauty, create the nature, or sort of transform the nature, do nothing but improve the value, as well as the outlook, or the look of the plane, as well as through our programs and services. Just one again, and forgive me if I seem to be lecturing sometimes, like our great faiths, Islam also. We attach so much importance to our neighbor relations, and our neighbors are 40 houses on the right, 40 on the left, 40 in the front, and 40 on the back. And if I mention to you the standards, the high standards to which we hold ourselves for neighbors, it's incredible. Thank you. Thank you very much. All right, appreciate it. By the way, I'm not a priest. That's all right. Thank you, Mr. Sadiq. I want to be an activist, be a activist. Yes, sir, thank you. All right, we're gonna close it up for the public, but board discussion, who wants to start? It seems to me that the one who we asked to have it removed, I think that her concerns have actually been addressed, and it looks like this is gonna be a real improvement to the site overall, so I, that's... Yeah, and I do appreciate her... Yeah. I was just gonna say, I appreciate her asking to remove it off the consent agenda to the regular agenda because that does not happen often, but if anybody ever has a concern, even one of us on the board, we need to do that. I mean, that's something that we're allowed to do, and it allows us to talk about it in a public setting and dive into it more. So I appreciate that. I like the fact that she had a chance to see where the building is going to go, to know that it's on the hotline. Her home is, and I also think that... I also think that the American shooter that they weren't infringing on the neighborhoods around the tourist area really just eats up empty land, it's not even close to the end where the neighborhoods are, all sides here and here, and so... It's parking that's squeezing the buffer, so it's not, the building isn't. Yeah. Itself as it's leaning up against it. Y'all wanna add anything or y'all? Do we wanna make, someone wanna make a motion? Move that we approve subject to staff comments. Second. We have a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right, the motion carries. Thank you very much. Okay. All right, I think that wraps it up. Thank you so much. Yep, thank you. All right, do we have a motion to adjourn? Move to adjourn. All right, motion and second. All those in favor say aye. All right. All right, they're adjourned. Thank y'all.