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So when I got a bit older in my teens and when I knocked someone out I thought, fuck, I can knock someone out. I got quite addicted to that. I always said to myself, I'll never be a victim as I had. I'll never lay down for anyone. I'll always stand tall and I was always very strong to me inside. So I thought, I'll get weighed in, I'll get weighed in but I'm always going to stand tall inside. I had a difficult time when I was younger but when I started getting to age I realised this and I couldn't fight, I couldn't have it. I wasn't going to let anyone take the piss and obviously I got into a fucking little trouble inside. Is that how you got your 10? No, that's not how I got my 10. I got out after that. I got out and obviously I was re-cooled. I was re-cooled and then when I was inside that's when there was a lot of problems, there was a lot of issues, obviously it mattered to go to prison, I went to go to Broadmoor. My label is that I'm the only guy who kicked out of Broadmoor since Brunson. Obviously the sentence I received was indefinite. It was called section 3741. There's no release date. There's no day you'll get out. I remember a doctor said to me once, you're never getting out. He said to me, you're lucky to get out before you're 40. How long did you do in Broadmoor? I did two years in Broadmoor. What was that like? What was it like in Broadmoor? When you've got every extremist trying to kill you, when you've got people just want to be, when you've got hot water and stabbing weeks of being there, when you've got 21, 22 hours, when you've got no one, it's done, it's game over, it's another world. It's hell. Broadmoor on. Today's guest, we've got Ben Hatcher. How are you brother? I'm good myself. Good to see you bro. You too, thanks for having me. Yeah, come on, great story. In prison for 10 years. 10 years. Fighting, bit of a rollercoaster. Biggest fight was in there, but now you're out. You've made a career into professional fighting. You've got your first fight coming up. We had a minute obviously, Covid's causing a few problems at the minute. Obviously it was meant to be fighting. Under Alan Mortlock, through IPA. But at the minute, obviously Covid. Of course mate, but you've just got to keep your head above water. Obstacles come. This is just another test for you. How you react. And it is what it is. But you're out, you're free. How long have you been out now? It'll be three months this Friday. 17th of July. To start early. Yeah, 10 years man, 10 years. It wasn't just prison. It wasn't just prison love. Obviously it was mental hospital. It was obviously the most notorious. It was obviously Broadmoor. Ashworth. Obviously I did the highest school prisons. But now I'm out. Obviously flying bro. Sitting here mate. You must be flying brother. Like he says, when we smoke on the phone. Lover traction. You must be working for you brother. I always go back to the start with my guest bro. Where you grew up and how it all began? I grew up in the south coast town of Eastbourne. I was born in Hastings. Obviously I travelled around a lot in foster cares when I was younger. From Hastings to London. I went back with my family. Certain things happened. It didn't really work out. I got involved with anti-social street life. I found my comfortability there. I felt comfortable. I liked being around. I liked the dramas. I liked all the... I was addicted to that. I liked all the anti-social and bullshit lifestyle. I'm one of them people. I'm very in on that. I'm like all or nothing. So when I was in it, I was in it. I had no guidance about trying to do good things. My education was all anti-social. It's difficult, especially with abandonment issues. A lot of people are interviewed who pretend to be bad men. You'll tend to see a lot as being bullied or abused when you're younger. There's always a link that the gangs and stuff, the violence, it's like a comfort if you do bad things. You're accepted from like a gang, but it's the wrong kind of gang. It's like you're doing things for approval of others, but it's difficult for such a young age because you don't understand that. Was you kind of running wild then from a very young age feeling neglected? Yeah, kind of. Lachstan didn't have any really positive role models in my life. There was one woman I did because my brother's my mother. Unfortunately she passed and that was tough to deal with. So I never really had anyone so solid in my life. They gave me advice, give me good advice. Then give me like trying to put me on a positive road. I think with everyone in the world a lot of people, it's everyone's quick to put people down. It's a lot of work again. I feel like it's all very suppressed. There's not a lot of people trying to build people up. Do you know what I mean? Everyone's... What's the words? Social, everyone could be quiet and negative. Do you know what I mean? People are getting their comfort zone. There's no one there to build people up. I think a lot of things today which I'm trying to do today is... Things we're doing today is trying to send that positive message. Trying to plant seeds in the younger generation's head. Letting them believe you can go and achieve things. Put that energy into what it is that you want to do. I never had that as a kid. All my education was how to rob, how to sell drugs, how to do violence. Obviously care home for me was quite difficult with violence. I was always small and older boys would be boys. When I got a bit older in my teens and when I knocked someone out, I thought, I can knock someone out. I got quite addicted to that. I can fight. People start saying about your name and you start popping. I'm getting known. I'm that small boy now. I can fuck up your shit. Gives you a bit of self-worth that you can harm somebody, but also gives you protection. Drilling fear into people will give you a sense of power. We're so fragile and vulnerable that we don't want to hurt anymore of ourselves. If we start knocking people out, if we start stabbing people or shooting people, we'll drill fear into them that will leave me alone. It becomes an addiction as well. It's crazy. What about your schooling? How did you ever go to school? I went there for a bit. I lived in one area and went to school in another. I didn't really fit in. I always felt like a bit of an outcast. I never fit in. School definitely wasn't for me. I think the school system is very outdated. It's not for everyone. Some people can do it, they can do the grades, but I was never interested in it. I just wasn't there. Certain elements of it, certain traits, certain classes, sometimes I just learned little bits. I'd find that quite interesting beyond it. See, I'm like with the schools, it's very structured, but it feels like things for people's inclination, different subjects, different things people do, where they could focus on that. Maybe it would have been different. Did you get what I'm saying? All kids are different. Everybody's in schools, it's your creativity and individuality just because you can't crunch numbers or read certain things you might not want to stand up in a class and read a book out or you might not be the best painter, but I don't fuck all the school, I'm dyslexic, but my vision is unstoppable, my self confidence, self worth right now is unstoppable and yet I was taught another amount to nothing. Sure as fuck, I'm fucking making the people that there was now do you know what I mean? But again, I feel blessed that it's took me 30 years to realise that I'm good enough and it's difficult as a kid if you get put in a very small box and you judge Manley's Brown, I've said this quote many times, his teacher said, he always says people's opinion of you doesn't have to be a reality. Teachers back in the day were telling you you never amount enough and you do no good. You can't learn in this class, you don't know your time's tables. I don't mean shit. Some of the smartest men in this world have created the best things in this world are people who never stuck in at school. You know the story of Einstein? It was one of the games on my changed journey when I learned about it, I was quite anti-social at school. When I first heard this, I read it in a book by Robert Green which one was it, Mastery. So I was reading that book and there was a story about Einstein and it sounded like he was quite anti-social at school. I was like, what Einstein? He was like Mr Genius, when I think genius, I think Einstein. And he was anti-social at school and actually I think I kicked out, we expelled and he was some Swedish professor took him to the special school and gave like letting focus on his vocation letting put all his like, what is his inclination which happened to be obviously quantum physics and that you know, and he obviously changed the game. Changed the world man. Because he was able to sort of not focus no geography, this and that sort of other stuff. He was able to focus all his energy into what he wanted. And what he believed and what he loved and that's what it's all about, is to find your passion. We're lost, human beings are lost. We don't know anymore. We're so dumb down on a desk, 95 from the ages of a kid, 93 at school and then it's 95 when you become an adult and it's the alcohol kicks and then it's the TV. TV is called a programme for a reason it programmes your brain to tell you that the world is a bad place trust me, the world is a fucking good place and if you don't think so, then go out and be good yourself. It's as simple as that and you've just got to kind of change the way you think, change the way you look at things. We all attract what we think which we'll touch on later on but yeah Einstein does say everybody's a genius everybody is creative but just don't believe in myself enough nobody's confident enough, everybody wants approval everybody wants to ask people for can I do that, can I do that but fuck everybody else, people ain't going to tell me anymore I'm fucking sick and tired of it, now I just create now I just do it, I know it's going to be the best people can look and say it's cocky arrogant, I don't care, I'm confident it's took me 56 years to get to where I am now but this is only the beginning to where I'm fucking taking things so I understand what you're saying especially sculling, it's a weird thing but a lot of the majority of people go to university don't even use their degree some people think they go to university and they think they're better than everybody else but they fucking ain't, it's how you treat others that shows your currency how you become a better person and change from your mistakes so when you were going through all your sculling in and out with young homes and stuff as well teenage years I did some first times when I was younger so I had to do that Were you drinking or anything, smoking weed? When I started getting to my teens, when I was like because the foster services abandoned me if I make a money and I opened some investigation and it was like the foster services dropped me at 15 because I was turning 16 I'm sure there'd be some sort of they weren't really meant to do that but they did drop me and that's when my brother's mum took me and my foster brother's mum took me and I had charges hanging over me from violence or police and I don't know all these different sort of charges out on the street but most of them were all out of violence so I was like When did you first go to prison? 16 Young offenders for ABH Yeah, it was ABH What did you do? What were your sentence? 8 mums do 4 How was that for the first time in the YOs? I would have gone for a hunter came once, a hunter came I don't know what to expect You don't know what to expect Scared of me? You see all the sort of programs you don't know what to expect I'm from the South Coast I'm in them sort of jails it's more like cities like London all these sort of places there's a lot more guys who know each other it's like a school thing I don't know anyone there's not many people in these jails I'm just seeing all these new faces and then obviously you get people into the testry I always said to myself I'll never be a victim inside I'll never lay down for anyone I'll always stand to and I was always very strong to me inside so if I get weighed in I'll always stand to inside I had a difficult time when I was younger when I started getting to age I realised I couldn't fight I couldn't have it I wasn't going to let anyone take the piss I got into a lot of trouble inside why did you think you had to fight so much because you didn't want to be bullied anymore I don't know, I don't think I might just have one of them looks about me to be honest but I think he is I don't know what it was but I just fucking something I must have one of these faces but I really should but again if you say if you are short and stuff as well you tend to see people do put on a swagger because if they say I'm fine but then that becomes a target for the bigger boys this fucked up man the way humans think especially in prison as well that's crazy man the method of thinking but that is where it is and sometimes you can't change it unless you actually see other people changing but you have made so many changes man to get to where you are today but when you were going through the yos what was your life like then did you have a place to stay did your friends mum still take you in no unfortunately she passed it was a difficult time it was it was I feel for my foster brothers and all that but I still chose a street life for me these after I got involved with a knife crime myself so it was it was a protection sort of thing but in the day I did what I did and I take full responsibility people wanted to attack me you know I defended myself well I didn't defend myself there's a time when you could stop I didn't stop and I have to live with that is that how you got your 10 no it's not I got the 10 I got out after that I got out and obviously I was recalled and I was recalled and then when I was inside that's when there was a lot of problems there was a lot of issues obviously it mattered to go to prison I went to go to Broadmoor my label is I'm the only guy I kicked out of Broadmoor since Brunson that's my label and obviously with the Amazon Prime film that's coming out obviously all the information what happened is that's all going to be it's all going to be revealed why but my story is very sad James you know maybe people might just think is he one of them sort of fucks it's not there was a massive battle for me inside so I got put in was it wrong or right while I got recalled and I didn't do nothing but once you're on licence when you get arrested on licence you're just recalled without sort of cool or anything like that do you know what I mean where did you get recalled for ABH second team I think I've got about eight of them on my record yeah I called my previous that sort of time my teams was quite bad so how did you get your 10 when I was inside again it was all problematic behaviour like again from I can't say too much because obviously the Amazon Prime film obviously but the charges from escape attempt to there was a GBH alleged hostage taken what they called it false imprisonment yeah so obviously the sentence I received was indefinite it was called section 3741 there's no release date, there's no day you'll get out and I remember a doctor said to me once he said you're never getting out he said to me you'll never get out he said you're lucky to get out before you're 40 so I was scared did that not scare the shit out of you or did it make you more rebellious 22 at the time he said you ain't going home you'll be lucky to get out of your 40 all the things I'll never have and never be able to do it goes right ahead we all know the saying it's fire or fly so for me it was just fire so all that emotional anger I was carrying I just fought the system obviously I had a lot of what's the word there was a lot of tension between me and the extremists inside obviously they were excited when I was back in prison I was attacked for no reason for having a British bulldog on my left and it says Toppins it represents boxing, I spoke Toppins it was a combination they took it as something for girls and I got attacked quite severely in prison I saw one of the guys when I was in Broadmoor and I got my own back on one of the guys I think orchestrated it but I didn't realise he was high up in the owl fucking guy either there was another hook guy it was his little firm it was always firm that I was inside at the time of all these mad fucking charges I didn't even know I just see it as like I don't really care if it was this or that or your part of this or whatever I saw it like you don't attack me for no reason so I'm going to get my own back do you know what I mean I don't care what you're representing what you're part of you orchestrate it for people to come so it's like I remember because he used to lead all the prisoners so I thought do you know what I'm going to get you back and I bounced a cricket ball with his head when I was in Broadmoor not a cricket ball he's not heavy there I fell on the thing they just took it they wasn't happy did you ever see a psychologist at this start of your sentence never I didn't entertain nothing like that I was young I was broken and I was struggling and causing dramas was my release do you know what I mean when you got to Broadmoor how did that come about then is it psychiatric when I did engage with the psychologist and um you're like this one you know when they say like when the penny drops you know when people say like you meet people that have changed when the penny drops I remember when my penny dropped and you're like do you remember a Mayweather and Pacquiao fight everyone wanted these two people to fight for years didn't they a Mayweather who would win obviously you had like two people fighting for two different sort of they represent two different things Mayweather obviously he's amazing at what he does he's very like he goes very like he got many Pacquiao he's very involved when Civil War stops when he fights he's involved with his government he comes hard from poverty although Mayweather doesn't come from money but he's proud of it but he got two people Pacquiao was like we got the world and the tension right now we can make a difference it was really entertaining it was like the psychology you said to me you know you got two different people fighting for two different ways like what is it you're fighting for and I remember sitting myself that night thinking what the fuck why am I fighting for what am I doing in my life and then I saw the Zen Monk now they saw I was talking to the Zen Monk and he was saying about how letting things go in emotions and he got me meditating I thought what just sitting there were quiet and shit I was like come on bro I'm not really into all this and he's like no just try it let it go you know all these fools got quite an active mind I'm like da da da da da da and yeah I started doing that let it go and I just felt there was like a bit more and then I come across this book the key to living law of attraction and I read that everything just started making a lot more sense and in my life it was like when I started realising the whole law of attraction I just you know I wrote I was in segregation the last time I assaulted someone was seven years ago and I and um I was in segregation and I read this book and I just thought and I started writing all these things that I want to achieve I want to write these goals and I want to write these and I sat there with the universe I got a whole meditation spot and I said and I did I said you know I know I was being brought more than that and I told people I spoke with the universe the universe didn't speak back but to me it was very spiritual I sat there with the universe and I made a deal another human being obviously without other sports with a box in a malicious sort of way if you help me achieve these goals I've got you know what I mean I sat there and ever since then I still had a battle they told me I was never getting out they told me I had to go through a tribunal what they call a pro every year but I'm ticking these goals off some of them were little and some of them were big do you know what I mean and I'm just ticking off and the universe is coming into your life it's fucking crazy when people you look at this stuff on YouTube your over-attraction is so true if you put that belief that conviction into it and you really have set what you're trying to achieve the universe will attract into your life the over-attraction people think you just think it you must believe it you must believe you already have it and then work your ass off to get it people watching us have got to understand everything it's created in this universe it started off with a thought whether it's this microphone, whether it's that chain the cameras, whether it's an airplane somebody's thought I'm going to do that it started created by one thought and if you tell people that people will speak you out because they don't know your journey, they don't know the goal so you've got to protect what you have and if you believe in it so much anything can be achieved one thing you said there you've got to believe you have it there's a difference sometimes I say to people I say what are you going to have in five years and they start telling you what they want and that's really going on there's two words there's one and there's have and you believe you realise I already have these things there's a big difference between putting your energy into having it and wanting it definitely you must just believe you already have it everything has frequencies and energies and I keep saying it and the more people will watch the more people will understand that you are what you think it's as simple as that you are what you put out there the life you're living in now you've created it a beautiful life it's what they want it's what they created you're sitting here you've created that it happens just visualise and it's you must believe it though we've got so many distractions we get into a car and it's music we go home there's fights and arguments we get into work it's noise when you sit and meditate and listen to your thoughts it's scary because it's a hundred mile an hour when you actually try and quiet it down that's what people don't realise because people's lives are full of chaos they don't actually realise how over-thinking they are that what we said this is causes disease and if you're thinking about the past you will bring yourself pain, misery, fear, distractions same as concentrating on the future too much it's trying to bring yourself into the present moment which is difficult because again it's the outside noise we just don't know what to do we don't know how to think right everything's just created through you are what you eat as well you are what you speak if you speak good you will attract good and people gossip and shit listen to how your phone calls that if you have piles of phone you want to get mad about it for the weekend if the relationships are breaking down if you hate your job they ain't people you want to inspire to because it's black magic as well if they're speaking like shit they're going to feel like shit and if you're taking that in in your conscious mind you're only going to start attracting that as well so it's trying to distance you it's scary changing fucking easy it's so scary man and it is a lonely journey as well to start making changes to better your life but it can be done the prime example when did you really start believing it when was that moment you say ok this is working for all your life a misery and pain and realising that you're in there you might never get out when did you realise what was that moment this is working I'm going to change when I started with the universe and I said I've got this shit when I visualised it I just felt it I felt it do you know what I mean I see one guy on fire and say I feel it I know I can be there and I'm making a difference I just see it in my head the people think you are crazy yes but they thought you are crazy anyway they message me on social media now I get stuff I get stuff, message me FaceTime they say you're doing amazing I don't feel like I can do that I used to tell all these people I'm a fire and tell you I'm going to do this and there's lads that are still away they feel it I know I still keep talking to the people that show me love when I was away I don't forget them I don't forget the little things that when I was down people would say something to build me up away some of these guys are never coming home and I haven't got to still send them DVDs and I still answer that phone to them because what I'm doing that is for them and that as well it's giving them hope and they're feeling it and they're buzzing for me they're not hating them it's like they're here with me do you know what I mean I'm going to do this and I always talk about all the time James I said no I'm going to do this I'm going to find a telly I'm going to make a difference I know I've got a story I'm going to try and send as many positive ripple effects out there I can how do I know it's working How long did you do in Broadmoor? I did two years in Broadmoor What was that like? What was it like in Broadmoor? When you've got every extremist trying to kill you on a hot water and stabbing weeks of being there when you've got you're 21, 22 hours and you've got no one it's done, it's game over it's another world, it's hell what did Bronson say what did Bronson say about Broadmoor and his book I checked the quote it was saying if I could live in hell and rent out Broadmoor I'd live in hell and rent out Broadmoor to my enemies do you know what I mean I still remember when I read this the nicest thing I can say about Broadmoor is I survived it and I support that quote Were you one of your youngest in there? I was the youngest I never met anyone there Is that a lot of medication in there? You don't tell that medication it's taken easy on your ass Does it feel hazy being in there with the medication and shit? I'm mentally scarred from what then and I think what we were talking about earlier the first tattoo I got out when I was James he liked this one, the first tattoo I got when I got out it says PTAW do you know what that means prove them all wrong that's the first tattoo I got when I got out because everything I said when I was there all that hate I have a lot of hate from Broadmoor a lot of negative there but what I do I channel all that energy to drive me and I know what I'm doing even that's how I prove them all wrong when I told him I was inside and I said I'm going to do this I'm going to do that and he laughed and now they're sitting there thinking what the fuck what's this guy doing this guy ain't even been out for three months I met K-Coke level last week I'm a fan of K-Coke I used to listen to his music when I was away on Amazon but for me meeting him it was like meeting M&M I listened to the skis of so much his CDs were broke I didn't tell him this I thought I'd try and keep it grounded I'm a fan of his so when he's saying there's moments there's many times especially getting out I feel like shit this is working am I fucking do you know what I mean can I do this and that and then in moments like that I found out this little attraction when I met Liam Galvin who this how the filming the whole Amazon thing started so when I started I wanted to write my book so I rang up a ghostwriter organisation and the thing is the writers they have multiple jobs so some of them are journalists so when I got talking with this ghostwriter they were going to ask me questions I didn't want to write a book about a little attraction I was at this place, that's place and I did mention that name Dale Creegan so I was in there with all these sort of people maybe I got caught slipping when he was asking questions about writing a book anyway I was in a medium secure hospital in Halisham called the Helen Liesenthal and you get like a pay box on the ward so it's like a lower secure now I've made it out of the high secure so I'm there and anyone can ring this pay box and the phone box has rang and the patients come up and someone's around the phone for you so I've gone up and he said go ahead, it's a guy from the Sunday Mirror I was like hello, he's been hatching I was like yeah he goes oh you know you're interested in writing a book and you start talking about questions and all that I'm thinking but you're not a book bro, you're the Sunday Mirror he's like yeah yeah, would you want to do a story about your thing I was like nah, I'll start shooting myself I thought I could get sent back to fucking high secures for this shit I'm scared, I don't want to know two days later the phone's gone again someone's got me for the phone and I ring and it's like a young female voice oh hi Ben, you know my name is Amy from the Sunday Mirror do you know what I mean, come on mate you know what I mean that's a bit dirty, I've been away all these years and you're doing that, do you know what I mean it's like wow what I was like I can't do that, I shouldn't have said that but leave it alone when you're left bro when you're left bro, where did you go Ashworth, there's three high secures in the country I did two, when they brought more keep me out I went up to Ashworth what was that like Scousers are cool, they're amazing shout out to the Scousers you know what, they're back at their own point and I tell you a lot of them obviously you get your assholes on that in them sort of places you know but you know what, I said nice things about Ashworth a lot of them was good the gym staff, the psychologists again you get your ups and your sort of downs but for me and Ashworth I grew as a person I did a lot of growing there it went easy there's some big things coming out on the movie like I was accused of allegedly going to take one of the most at that time one of the most infamous people in the country hostage, it was alleged but they say alleged I was punished for it but obviously all that would be coming out and that as well, so there's some big things coming out when did you start doing boxing then obviously in Ashworth I started training when I was younger I trained a bit but when you're involved in that street life that just takes full priority but in Ashworth there was a former staff he's quite known do you know what I respect Tony Quigley so much he's a staff he fought Paul Smith in the Echo Arena but unfortunately things happened to him and he went through it next thing he works as a staff in Ashworth and I was always kind of about boxing and I was always trying to train and when I was telling him what I wanted to do because I put him in my book at the end like people are saying thank you to every time I used to tell these people these staff and guys I was telling them what I'm going to do when I get out they were like alright they were entertaining but they just knew they just thought I was fucking mad they were like do you know what I mean I could see it alright they thought you're fucking mad they were like yeah yeah sweet you know what I mean they're one of them ones but when I said it to Tony we were sitting there playing a game he spun the chair around he said how are you going to do it and he sat there and he was like it's the first person I've been speaking to about and it's the first person I could see in his eyes I was fully interested and full he believed and gave me amazing advice and that's what I put him in the back of my book and he like the advice he'd give me I don't know if I'm getting in trouble but he used to show me footwork and he was saying do this do that they were all supportive of it they were showing me little things on the side I can't name them because they would get fucking sacked but they know who they are they all contributed to what I'm doing now That street fight is totally different from a boxing fight it's totally different techniques totally different endurance it's different adrenaline it's crazy man it's a different ball game it's a journey I thought I could have it I'm not some big dudes I've had some scratch but this boxing game is a game change like the footwork and everything there's some guys I'm about a box and I think I'm gonna hurt you I start getting on the foot and my cousin Nicky he's very good boxing he's done the boxing for a while and he loves exposing me he loves getting them digs in it's good man you need a bit of competition as well you've got ACAT then all your whole sentence when did you start working down it after Ashworth it's under the therapy who was it doing therapy for you speaking about your past, your trauma, your pain it's just like no it's intense but I did a lot of it like one to one with the psychologist when you learn about yourself there's the same thing in my book it's like to become who you are you must know who you are and I think you know what I mean by that and personally to be who you are you must know inside who you are and that's not and you need to look into the Nicky and the Gritty as well you need to really realise who you are and what you're representing so I learned about motions letting it go it's like a lot of these young guys it's like whether they're having trouble at home or they're going through some bits and then someone will say something and they'll say I call me a dick and they'll be like all them sort of all them files in his head all that word and that opens up this big file and he'll go mad but it might not be that word where he went mad it's what associates it's what emotions connected with what that person said and I think once you learn how to let things go focus on what you're doing and do that positivity it's easy to talk about the good points it's easy to bum yourself up talk how amazing you're doing how you do this, how you make this that shit don't mean anything let's talk about your pain let's talk about what you're addicted to let's talk about what skeletons you've got in your closet because when you can do that you will fucking truly heal because you've got to accept to heal if anybody's scared that's why it's so easy to be successful in this world right now because so many people are weak as fuck nobody wants to face reality drink drugs overeat anger frustration whatever it is we mask some sort of pain by the external stuff let's talk about the deep stuff everybody's vulnerable always fucking say it we're all vulnerable we're all weak we all have flaws but when you actually own it and go do you know what fuck it this is me you'd accept it you'd get to fuck out my way it's as simple as that man we only get one life as far as I'm aware but how are we going to utilise it when you're lining your bed feeling sorry for yourself self loathing are you going to get fucking up put your foot on the floor and say you know what I'm taking this day on fucking head on I don't stop man we're not stop me Nick here man I don't want to stop because I know how fucking fast you can lose it as well I mean I'm on the rocket ship to fucking the stratosphere I need to make sure that I'm working harder than everybody else and staying humble staying focused but again there's still self loathing and still seeking there I just want attention as well is it fame I'm craving is it money I'm craving as well I've got to question every scenario same as yourself we're over thinkers we've visualised but we're also question everything what we're doing do you know what I mean it's scary to think so when you're doing a boxing in a prison doing your stuff coming down Loa did you realise that there's a chance you were getting out when did you start thinking okay I'm getting out here once I've done all the therapies and everything I was saying I was sticking to it I think that's when I started certain stuff started becoming on my side inside it's all political it's all politics if they let someone out they let people out they go do something drastic the papers do their shit with local language it's the domino effects and they don't like letting people out it's very hard to get out of them services well when many years without violence everything I was saying I was doing I was trying my best they see it I carried myself well I got attacked three times and didn't retaliate I must have this fucking look even when I become positive Loa of attraction I still get twatted a few times your test so I never retaliated at once I was always quick to retaliate how was that feeling for you not doing that so proud first time was hard I went to myself I thought no I need to fucking back out but I think I need to do something I don't know about this actually people whack me in my mouth and you're looking in the mirror and I let it go and the second time it happened the guy was unwell and just attacked me I let it go and I remember when I was in a meeting and the meeting was cured and they were talking about it's like a risk meeting about what your risks are and I remember when I saw it and this was one of my goals you have like high medium low risk of violence always high always high and when they've done this risk assessment meeting for the first time it said low and I was so proud because I put that in my book I want to be seen as my violence and risk is low I put it in, I don't know how I word it but I put it in there and I saw it and they had this projector they put it there and they just thought it's special but I'm doing right the universe is coming through with me now I'm doing something right obviously how me and Liam met and the people that I'm meeting Joe Egan is amazing Joe Egan is one of the nicest humblest giant men ever I love the guy, we're come friends he is amazing the way he talks and that as well he's a top guy having his support because the guy he's got a past as well and be able to connect with someone like that it's amazing Joe Egan meeting Dave Courtney I'll tell you that's something as well when me and Dave Courtney met he has that very charismatic you know people like him and they don't with the interview me and him had people are going to see a different side they're going to see a bit of a different Dave where I'm coming from a lot of people are relating to it they see that people I meet know I'm a bit fucked up everyone knows what I've went through I carry a lot of pain I carry the demons they call it PTSD whatever they call it I'm carrying it because I went through it at a young age it's not easy but me and these people I think they're realising they're connecting and everyone's supporting like you today bringing me and what we're trying to do that's all we can do mate that's all we can do is try did you have any visitors where you were in Joe when I was in Bournemond I was done I disconnected from everyone I was done I didn't want to see anyone it was over you know when I was in the jails a few of my friends come up but towards the end when I was local I had fantastic support the staunch ones my cousins when I went away my cousins were little they were all little boys every time it's going to happen they're just trying to attack me it's like a little team of them they want to be grabbing the leg they want to be jumping on me they're boxing me up in that now so I've moved away with them and I'm building a relationship more with them and they're friends if they're still doing that anti-social stuff I'll see them I'll always be polite I'll never not anyone who's negative I'm not trying to do I'm not trying to see a vision I want to try and put it down I've got this goal, I've got this dream, I've got this vision I'm doing it you're still meditating now I think I'll do my best too because I'm still adjusting I'm still early three months I'm not even three months I'm still adjusting still trying new foods going here and going there not thinking I've got to be back now I need to be better this time I've got to get up this time I've got to take my medication this time they're all supporting me to come off it in a year they're very behind what I'm doing, they're even trying to recommend me they're putting a reference I'm trying to work with the NoKnives, the organisation where I live as a local community centre for the NoKnives so that's going really well they're supporting me because that's my main goal at the minute I'm having meetings and that with the managers and all that at the NoKnives so actually to be able to try and doing all this it's amazing I don't know who's seeing it I've already said to people who's seeing you you didn't know about it, you're having such an effect so with everything that we're doing we don't know the effect that we're having so for me what my end goal is to try and change some of these guys I'm not even trying to change, I'm just trying to build them up or be there for them someone they can connect with and relate because I don't know the girls they come from middle class you ain't going to connect with these guys I'm going to be there with someone hopefully they can connect with maybe guide them and say things trying to build them up give them that confidence that I never had and that's all I want to do and there's a guy I was speaking to who was watching the football and he's like I've seen your future I've seen you're doing this I was like yeah yeah yeah he's talking and I started talking to him and he's done quite a bit as well when I was at he's the one to put all the boxing equipment up there it was funny how you meet people when you're on something it was open it started connected he said to me there's one lad here whenever I forget he was a very troubled lad he was always causing trouble and then years later he was in Tesco shopping I'm like what he turns around and he goes it's such and such and there he is, Mrs Kid I'm like yeah I'm doing all this and do that and even that it gets me emotional I just think if one day one day in so many years someone come up to me about how I've been and you really like jumped me on this and I thank you like that's it I've done it, I've achieved it if I can just stop someone going for that pain because it's bullshit the street life is bullshit I know sometimes it can't be certain things happen in certain circumstances but the amount of pain I had to go through the amount of things that I've seen the horrible things I've heard I was living with murders and killers and like, do you know what I mean real dudes I've met, I've seen it all I've seen some disgusting people do you know what I mean you can't just wash that away from me it's stuck with me now and I accept that and I live with that I'm trying to deal with it I keep doing it it's really energising me to achieve it hopefully the fight comes through because that's the climax I have to have this fight How you dealing with it all Do you think since you've been out everything's moving a bit fast for you are you enjoying the journey make sure you're enjoying it though put too much pressure on yourself life is for living you've made your fuck ups you try to rectify it by doing good but also sometimes we can try and save the world your energy is powerful you've got to create it to get you in a better mindset so people can look up to you and go if he can do it, I can do it you must keep protecting yourself always protect yourself from everything else because it's difficult, we're trying to save the world we're doing good so we're trying to give people the tools and techniques to follow us but they ain't ready because if somebody told me the shit that I was talking about five years ago I'd have told them to fuck off you've got to be ready and understand that everything is possible what did you review? what was the last of June? I read The Power of Now I always promote that book I read that at 30 I was just partying, I was fucking around I just lost so many people to murder suicide, overdose, I'd police at the door I've been visiting prisons for a very young age for as young as I can remember just got to see family members my mum and dad did what they could they loved me money was always tight a place called Stonyhurst Street in Glasgow was fucking wild a bit of a turmoil fucked it, went on the drink drugs, went on a roller coaster hid behind the pen, masked it with laughter fear, just anxiety and then I changed at 30 and then I had a couple of speed bumps along the way, fucked it a few times back on the gear now I'm back on the path again I've learnt, I know now that everything that I do is my decision I know it's right for me, I know it's wrong for me nobody can tell me otherwise so if I fuck up, it's my own doing I can't point fingers anymore, I can't keep blaming but now I'm just, I know what I'm doing everything I've said is two years ago I've done now I'm just going to take over and keep pushing and just, it is where it is just keep hustling I feel it, it's a struggle life ain't fucking easy people always tell me you're killing it you're doing well, you're doing this I don't feel fuckable, I still feel the same guy 10 years ago, more problems come as well I've got more problems and issues that I had 10 years ago when shit was going wrong but I handle it better, I do not shy away I do not fucking hide you cannot tell me I'm a coward 35 years ago, 34 last 34 years you could have, not now I'm doing it, I'm not asking for approval I'm doing it, I'm doing what I can but sometimes I question it, what does it mean I don't know what it fucking means, I just know that I'm not harming anybody, I found a passion I'm very good at what I do and I just, I'll take it further my visions and ideas might change in 5 years I was very good at starting something and never finishing it now I'm going to finish this, now I'm going to take over I will be the biggest on the planet I believe in the next 3 years but again I question it what does it mean, is that my ego is that my addiction I can create a platform so big but people will change lives not just one, not just two but millions we can just create we can just create that you don't need to feel alone you don't need to be depressed, now people say that's slogan it's okay, not to be okay it's okay, not to be okay but again it's true but you don't need to live there do you know what I mean, you don't need to feel the pain in the misery of the fucking day you can make the changes, you can change your neuro pathways to the way you think, to the way you feel to the way you speak you can change the whole dynamics of your life but you must dig deep to do it because if you've done 10, 20, 30, 40 years and you've been doing drug abuse whatever it is you've done you can't just change that in one day it's a small steady process but just remind yourself when you have one bad day then go and have two good but again we're doing it mate sometimes I quit, I'll wing it there's no question I don't know what the fuck I'm doing we were doing something right because something keeps popping out of these guys I just fucking wing it people say oh yeah we'll wing it we'll wing it we'll wing it sometimes you're doing amazing sometimes I walk away and go feel you because I don't know what the fuck I'm doing I just know what I'm doing is working and people enjoy it that will fizzle, that will go out but then I'll just I don't want to be one of these guys sitting in a pub and saying I could have been a contender I could have made that at 40 years of age 50 these people know where the fuck ups went now that you've still got air in your lungs to now create something now that you know fucked up your life 20 years ago I don't want to be one of those guys so now I'll just create 30 in my 30s and show the world what I can do from just believing in yourself fuck everybody else fuck them all mate how did your book come about the law of attraction you know when you're like you find they go from your fire guys you want to show her off they call it a trophy girl you find out a trophy girl and everyone wants to show her off I found the law of attraction it was my trove I wanted to tell the world I want to show the law of attraction off to the world and all these books like Tony Robbins once put he put a quote saying because technically my book in the library would be self help you know I've asked the categories and Tony Robbins was saying when it comes to self help books a lot of people will be passed the second chapter so that stuck with me because I started doing what was for each other when I'd write a book and then so I went and got these self help books and I counted how many sort of pages two chapters was average year back like 40 so I thought if I write a book less than 40 pages they're going to read it all wouldn't they there's two chapters in it so they're not just going to read two chapters in my book and fuck it off and get bored they're going to read the whole thing I've got to break it down sometimes I read books there's words and shit I don't understand I come from a Kansas State I can't spell I can read but I can't spell on things and a lot of people I know like that they can't sit in for long periods and read especially now when you've got so much sort of media and so many distraction TVs a lot of people sit like that now and read books people do people don't all this audio or whatever so and I wanted to put the science behind the law of attraction a lot of people say law of attraction when they don't know about it and they're talking about it I think what's that is that a religion it's not really a religion you could call it as having faith but there's a lot of science behind the law of attraction is a vibe what is a vibe? a vibe is a vibration that frequency there's so much when I start going on a journey learning about it sitting around to raise your vibrations we look at things and we think that's solid that's not solid bro that's just vibrating at a different frequency we're made up of the same thing which is an atom I've got the same atoms as the sea, the grass, everything so my whole journey of learning about it again I just wanted to try and put it into words that other people could understand and they could see how I've fallen in love with something read this you can take the horse to war but I wanted to take the water to everyone this is the book and the reason what you think everything has frequencies and some people struggle with that but if you look at the wifi connection as well you can't see it but it can connect you with people from all around the world the same as any vibration if you think about a friend sometimes they'll phone you straight away and you go fuck me everything is connected even ex-partners there's a connection there same as if you sleep with a girl it's a sexual energy exchange it's called where you start plugging your fucking phone into charge you're taking on the pain, the trauma whatever they're dealing with as well as the people who've also been with them so again I was a womenizer so one of the reasons my head was fucked because you're fucking all these different energies and fucking wild and top of drugs and drinking, gambling your head's fucked and yet you think you're okay you think you have a sleep and it's wiped clean but it's not you've got to really cleanse yourself become a better person and then once your vibration starts happening that would be sitting here if I was doing the stuff that I was doing so it clearly works if you everybody's got an aura so if you do bad stuff it will poke holes in your aura and that's when all the negative stuff comes in people walking out of the room have no energies you know who's sad, you know who's feeling depressed I can pick a sentence up and pick some of these spirits up straight away cos I just know straight away who's approachable, who's not I don't know why I've got it, I did a reiki course but that's all about healing energies and it might sound crazy but it works for me, it could be crazy but again, it's not, I mean you're not hot I might have to deal with the universe bro I was in Bourbon, I was in Ashford, I had to go I was full, talking with the universe I might have to deal with the universe When did you get your lib date? 17th of July, just gone Did you know it was coming up? I knew I had my parole coming on I knew it was being serious about releasing me I was in accommodation How many times did you go to the parole board? That was my first, I lost the other two I lost the two before Did you ever feel like quitting and thinking fuck it, this isn't working? Of course, of course it's intense but it's the support that I think a lot of self talking it's like you said that you have to dig deep you've got to really dig deep all you've got to do is give up and that's it the vision of this dream I've got I have to do it and I just, you know there was a course of times I fell down and I thought I can't do this even since coming out now I'm like shit, you know, with the boxing I'm getting schooled, left right and centre with the boxing I'm coming on every week, there's one programme training with when we first sparred it blackwired me a couple months ago it blackwired me in the gym but then we sparred two weeks ago, it's like you've come on a million times do you know what I mean? it's just about having that I had to go back and read my own book at some times like actually read my own book to my head and then it's about trying to remember how I love to chat, remembering how certain things have come in life because you've manifested it and I've just got to keep sometimes them happening because what we're manifesting certain scenarios have to happen for you to go on that path how I met Liam Galvin who I'm doing the filming with you know, I met him through me escaping you know, I wouldn't have met him if I didn't escape I escaped at one point in the hospital and I wouldn't have met him if I didn't escape now this whole journey with Liam you know, Liam's been fantastic he's been like my adopted dad now he is, he is he's been put through Joe and Dave and everything he really saw my vision I wasn't a mental hospital bro James, James, if I rang you up here if I rang you up for a mental hospital bro I said mate listen how I got Liam's number, I can't even remember but I got this Jesus personal number and I thought I've probably got about a minute on the phone with him before he thinks what the fuck he hangs up on me so I've got about a minute and I sat there and I thought I could try and play it go on and say this and I rang the phone and I was like I've got this guy on the bed fight and I was like rambled for a minute and it just went quiet and I thought and I figured oh fuck off Barry or something like that he thought I was one of his mates ringing him up winding him up and I was like no it's not a wind up but honestly can you just hear me out what I've got to say and he was like ok we'll talk next week and I sat there the whole week please ring for me but then I sort of felt I knew you I knew your words, I just said everything you've done with the films and I knew my story I knew what I've had papers ringing me out I knew I had story and I knew I had something and he started hearing me out more and then you know when I was on day releases we'd done some training we did some film interviews he started with me for the whole process and it's been amazing he saw it and you know again it's good when we get somebody who fights your corner who doesn't walk away, who doesn't run away because if you've got abandonment issues and you've seen it your whole life that everybody turns against you it's hard to trust anyone ok you believe in me I'm not going to let you down look at Mike Tyson as well when he died he kind of went off the rails as well so we need to come to a conclusion come to understand that obstacles will arise people do come and go in your life it's not to be if they walk away then it's so be it people will come into your life you'll learn the lesson then they'll go away everybody comes into your life for a lesson I believe that's what I've truly understood now and that's what I'm still working on it doesn't matter what it is so when you get out then what was it like for the very first day you get out? I had a party, that was a party have you seen the video? yeah I watched it today on the train yeah friend on that yeah it was a friend they don't know how to put party people go out with my cousins and I was crazy I had a party man and my friend on the singing did you see my friend on the singing it was such a good vibe it was weird because I felt like I've got to be back do you know what I mean I felt it was still quite where did you stay? the job somewhere to stay? I got a flat in Hastings no no it's a flat I'm in a flat now in Hastings to go back I had to be there at night so I had the party went back that night it was weird waking up in the morning this time it's breakfast I was there I walked down to Hastings I walked down there got some bits of shopping I got some random shit it didn't make sense what things I got this time it didn't even go what time you're getting up in the morning you're still up at 6 or 7? half 7 that's a good thing as well what's your daily routine like now? again it's still adjusting with everything that's going on I've got some amazing coaches Jamie McGuigan a young coach he's seen what he's doing a guy like Zac he's my strength conditioning coach he's not even doing it for money he sees what I'm doing he's taking time out of twice a week he's not charging how does that make you feel? people can see it there's something there they believe in you how does that make you feel? no one believes in me I've never felt equal in the system sometimes I don't even feel that way sometimes I don't even feel equal because I'm so used to being down here when everyone's there in the system and now you're having normal conversations and then people believe in what I'm doing I've had a lot of people relating to people that have fucked up in life or people trying to help a lot of them connect to me with a lot of people and people see what I'm doing and it's giving me more motivation to achieve this it's an amazing experience what's going on in a minute it's like saying what's it all for I don't know what it's all for but I'm doing it and I'm winging it it feels right so it must be right who knows where it's going but it's working and people are looking and I'm like I'm a fan of I'm a dragon I'm a fan of and they're telling me what you're doing is good I've got to be doing something sitting here with you James come on man this is you giving me an opportunity to come here it's enough respect it's enough love giving me the opportunity to come here talk with you I spoke to you on the phone man you reached out so why not everything's about giving people chances and this isn't a chance you're doing me a favour just as much as I'm doing you one it's teamwork you're getting your story out there people are going to watch it people will pick things up from it I've seen your story and I said he's got something he's got to keep grinding man keep pushing in the world going forward down for the future tell me what's Ben going to do what's he going to achieve well I know I need someone to get the licence for the fight Covid's like it's completely even that is testing my vision a bit you know what I mean even Covid's really knocking it they're saying only top athlete can fight at the minute they're saying top athlete that's it we was trying to get a licence in Essex Adam I'm meant to be fighting for the IBA but Essex refused the licence all because of Covid some trainer got people I'm meant to be fighting when am I getting this when can I fight yeah but it will pass these are just tests so be patient you've been patient your whole fucking life anyway especially if you're in Broadmoor you need to be patient do you know what I mean there's no such thing as time in fucking MoMo there's no such thing as time there's no such thing as time the dress code later now they just a lot of them still keep the old fashions they say I don't know what caused it but it's not especially the old school ones the pay away prison officers association they just say oh fuck it the Covid will pass the Covid will pass bro these are just tests when later saw it it's just been impatient because you've waited all this time to get your chance to prove that you're doing something but you're already doing it sitting here you're doing it training in the gym you're doing it these are the goals, these are the steps it's just a case of chipping away man so where do you see yourself in the boxing do you see yourself as a world champion or do you just see yourself just being happy to fight and showing people just being happy to fight but when I get in that ring I ain't gonna dance around I'm coming to war do you know what I mean when I step into that ring I'm gonna bring something when people want to see that when they want to see an entertaining fight that's what I'm gonna bring to the table I'm gonna bring that energy I'm gonna bring that endurance even when I walk out it's gonna be a fight and I promise when I get in that ring with whoever it's gonna be fireworks give people excitement and they say you know if I'm fucking life-sentencing bro mo this is like watching this guy he's putting on one of the best fucking fights to see that's it achieved do you enjoy getting punched I take it some people do it it's been through a lot of pain a lot of prison time they enjoy it because it's a bit just showing them that they're alive but they also embrace it because they've been through that much pain and they enjoy fighting I won't stop when this all happens and I will not stop I'm coming to fight I'm not gonna be when it's half-high guys James it's not gonna be me I'm coming to whoever out there we've got more promoters out there they want somebody they want somebody who's gonna give their heart I will bring that's me that's how the energy I've got for this it's everything this fire and I'm trying to put everything into it I've got the trainers in we can't even spot now we have to spot we have a secret space we have to bring people into the spot you can't even do pad works again I can't fire but boxing is a different thing me trying to learn was to bring people in sometimes people are cool just not meant to be doing that it's very difficult it's like the whole thing is a test right now and then we're getting knocked back we can't give you a licence but they won't stop me do you know what I mean in the end we can't stream because you're not allowed I will put it out there on my Instagram or YouTube and I'll just let everyone watch it I'll just take a fight in some local gym to do it do you get what I'm saying because that's how it feels don't be impatient it's all going to happen you've worked that hard to get to where you are today to keep pushing finish you're strong finish your head above water because people are sinking and they're sinking fast so you must pop your head up and say you know what it will pass fuck's sake if you can do a stunt in broad mode mate I'm sure you can wait another three months to COVID passes do you know what I mean yeah it is it's difficult mate you're waiting this whole time to show people that I'm going to do it it's in place where is the fight going to be we're at two locations we're at two locations you'll call you'll call yeah I'm coming so how do you think back now looking back in your life what do you think from the person that you are to repeat the man you're becoming now how do you think to see it is that a roller coaster do you think sometimes the fucks mate did I actually live that there were many times when I could have finished it do you know what I mean I thought about it you know not just I think a lot of people do when there was one and people I thought she'd do when I've seen it and I felt it I remember I had like really bad acne on my face when I was away and there's a medication called Roacatine don't know if you've ever heard this it kills acne off like they give you these night creams and all that but some of them work, some of them don't but then I got bad and they gave me Roacatine you know at least there's been the programs about Roacatine and it's like people commit suicide if it's drunk it works it got real acne but it fucks people up and gets them depressed so on time and just sort of like scared and really upset and I was really contemplating it contemplating suicide not just you know when you sit and think but I was really thinking about it like you know what I'm done I'm really done with this shit I had nothing I had people who wanted to fucking hurt me I didn't feel any love I didn't feel any fear I had no goals I had no ambition I had nothing I'm just existing in the fucking hell I'm just existing but you're here now brother I'm here now I'm here now with James English for anybody that's in the struggle for anybody that maybe feeling lonely feeling weak maybe suicidal feeling neglected what advice would you give for them I've been there like so I feel don't just think I'm not saying I feel how you feel that if you're contemplating you're feeling I feel that I was there you have to dig dig just show character just talk to people you know I didn't have anyone I didn't feel like I had anyone to speak to but you have to sort of self talk yourself distract yourself or reach out to people if you're outside then reach out to people that were supporting some mountains or something and just like you said earlier just take them small steps you know things maybe like shit right now at that time they may feel that it's done but look when I felt when I was where when I was at when anyone's watching this and they're like I don't know look where I am now so when how I was feeling that do you get what I'm saying that from life sentence Broadmoor to meeting some amazing people having amazing you know Joe Cogue and the inspiration I'm trying to do with the whole fight to sit in a review look at that look at that do you get what I mean that sentence Broadmoor sitting in an interview James English the journey of getting along the way you know what I mean it's ups and downs it's not easy you know in the life of all testers you have to show that character you have to find something you have to distract and push forward Love it brother Ben, I'm so pleased brother I look forward to seeing your future get your fight I'll be there when it kicks off and for hello there I'll definitely be there team Liam thank you brother Also for people watching how can I get you on social media how can I watch your stuff how can I get your book Yeah and the video obviously is going to be things on YouTube which obviously is the only review but if you actually want to hit me directly it's Instagram Ben Underscroll Hatchit official it's like Ben Hatchit I'll come up Just click your links up on your YouTube channel Watch the journey there I do honestly I highly come people please come and support what I'm trying to do let's reach out Come and see a lot of attraction for yourself If you're questioning if you're not sure follow Can people buy your books? Books available on Amazon What about your YouTube channel? I don't do the YouTube Maybe I should Get your videos out there man Everything's business Everything's building a platform so if you can tell your story or do other things it's just reaching a wider audience so it's something definitely to dig into if you don't want to do it then so be it but many platforms as you can to just keep creating awareness for an inspiration brother a genuinely rooting for you can't wait to see what you do for the future again Thank you brother, God bless