 Hello and welcome, thrilled to have all of you here for another episode of The Nonprofit Show. Today we have with us Jodi Siegel and Jodi's here to talk about equity and equitable employee handbooks. Jodi serves as Founder CEO at Big Change Consulting, doing a lot of good in and around our communities. So we're going to hear a lot more from Jodi here shortly. Hey, if you haven't met us yet, we want to remind you who we are, Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. You might notice she's not here today every now and then. We of course give each other a grace period and she had some other things going on, but we will certainly miss her and we have want to honor and recognize the fact that she created this platform for conversation. I'm Jirit Ransom, your non-profit nerd, CEO of the Raven Group and always honored to be alongside Julia for these conversations and to be here in conversation with Jodi today. Before we dive deep into these equitable handbooks, we want to say thank you so very much to our presenting sponsors. These companies allow us to have the conversations like the one we're going to have here with Jodi Siegel. So a huge shout out to Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Fundraising Academy at National University, non-profit nerd, your part-time controller, staffing boutique and non-profit thought leader. Hey, if you haven't checked out these companies, I invite you to do so, but you know the drill, don't check them out now. You have about 29 minutes and then you can check them out because you're certainly going to want to hear today's conversation. But if you do miss any of today's conversation or any of our previous 600 plus, plus, plus episodes, you know where to find us, Roku, YouTube, Amazon Fire TV, as well as Vimeo. And for those podcast listeners, which I have to ask you, Jodi, are you a podcast listener? Absolutely. Me too. I love them, whether I'm traveling or exercising. So you can listen to this show wherever you stream your podcast. Just go ahead and queue up the non-profit show on your podcast system. Without further ado, I feel like we need a drum roll, but I'm thrilled to have you here, Jodi. So welcome and tell us a little bit about yourself and also a little bit about Big Change Consulting. Thank you so much. I'm really excited to be here with you today. So Big Change Consulting was founded two years ago to help nonprofit organizations and other mission-based organizations start up, gear up, and clean up their operations, HR, and their fundraising. In my previous 23 years working inside nonprofit organizations in a wide variety of roles, from fundraising director to interim executive director to operations director, program staff, administrator, all of the different roles that you could really have in an organization. I found repeatedly that we, as a nonprofit sector, really struggle with running the business of our organizations. We have passionate leaders who are really smart about the mission, sometimes have experience in fundraising, but rarely do we have the resources and expertise needed to do the basic functioning of the organization, which then takes away a lot of time and resources from the program staff, from executive leadership. And so we wanted to help fill that really large gap that exists. Such a need, and I'm going to have to ask you to repeat that again. It was the start up, repeat those three because I was like, wow, that's cool. Start up, gear up, and clean up operations, HR, and fundraising. I love it. That is Big Change. So definitely right there, right there with the name. Well, hey, today we have a big conversation to take on in a short amount of time. So we're probably simply scratching the surface, but I know your website has a lot of information for us, and we're going to tease something else at the end, so make sure you stay with us. But Jodi, kick us off, would you, with equity in employee handbooks? And could we start with what that is, like that basic definition or what we're looking to achieve here? Yeah, so an employee handbook is a document that goes through your employee policies and other important relationships between the organization and the employee. And it is a conversation place, it is a policy place, it is a central document that is really guiding that relationship and building trust between the employer and the employee. And it takes into account a whole bunch of things, the mission of the organization, staff relationships, there's legal components, there's financial management involved, and there's a board relationship there. And sometimes it addresses some funding issues as well. So there's really a lot that's packed into an employee handbook. And because equity is an issue that applies to our lives across the board, it's critically important to have the employee handbook founded, really grounded with an equity lens in mind so that you're recruiting and retaining a diverse, powerful, smart, well-rounded staff of employees. So my question with this, and thank you for really grounding us in what this needs to look like, is an employee handbook a set it and forget it? Or is it a document that we really need to revisit on a regular basis? I think it should get a good review every two to three years for sure, but then it also should be updated as your practices change. Because I think if you have a handbook or set of policies that if you have anything in there that's not actually live and used and is out of date, it really calls into question the rest of it. Because if you don't have to follow this rule, then why should I have to follow something else that's in there? That's true. And really setting that precedent, like you said. So you shared a little bit about why it matters. Can you dive a little deeper in that recruitment? Because I'm curious how that employee handbook and the equitable lens really assist hopefully with the recruitment piece. Yeah. So a big key to in making sure that you have diversity and equity within your organization is very much about retention. And so when staff are looking to apply to work at your organization or considering taking a job at your organization, they're going to take a look at the staff that you have and the practices that you have. Right now we're in a time where it's a very great market for people looking for jobs. And they have a lot of choices. And so a lot of folks, especially mission based folks who are working with nonprofit organizations, they really care about the culture of an organization. So it's really is critical. And you could have specific policies in there too that address recruitment and hiring. That's so good. We've talked a lot over the last couple of years about the change in the workforce. We've never really gotten into the deep conversation that you and I are having today with that equity in our handbooks. And I'm curious how you've seen this change over the last couple of years. You know, Julie and I, we mentioned pandemics plural, including social injustice and how, you know, these last two, three years have been really heavy. It's a lot of change going on. Have you seen an increase in demand when it comes to this equity lens? Absolutely. It is the number one request that we have at Big Change Consulting. Yes. And we actually have created a whole brand around equitable employee handbooks because there is just such a constant need for it. And it's something that applies across all of the sectors. So not only nonprofit organizations, but the for profit businesses that are helping nonprofit organizations, government agencies that work with nonprofits, it affects all of us. And it's a people are constantly asking for either a brand new handbook or an assessment through an equity lens. Oh my gosh. It seems like a really big undertaking, but it's one that's really important. Let's talk about this equity lens and lenses plural, right? To consider when we are hopefully taking that best practice of every two to three years reviewing our handbook. Can you talk to us about this big picture, what we're looking to achieve? Absolutely. And I think it's important to note that this doesn't replace your diversity, equity and inclusion practices. If you're looking to develop your values to develop your practices, then you should get in touch with a diversity, equity and inclusion consultant who has experience in this area and can work through the big picture issues that you have. When looking specifically at an employee handbook, I think about three big picture lenses, which because there are a bunch of things that might come up with your staff and you want to make sure that you have a perspective to address them, not just individual line item rules. So first is to support a diversity of perspectives. Employees are whole people. If you're looking for people to bring in all of their attributes to work, you have to respect that they have a lot of attributes themselves. So be respectful of that and supportive of that. Second is to protect personal time and finances. And so don't ask your employees to donate their time. Don't ask them to subsidize the work of the organization. And third is to define lanes for decision making. So we want to avoid the old boys club type of approach and make sure it's really clear and accessible how decisions are made. There was a lot in that statement and I'm thinking, honestly, Jodi, I've had several conversations this week and I think if my watch is telling me the truth, it's only Wednesday. So I've had a lot of conversations the last couple of days. One had to do with that reimbursement. And I really am curious, we ask a lot of our staff to submit reimbursements to pay for something up front, whether it's gas or supplies. And then oftentimes they're not receiving that in 45 days or so. How can we address maybe an equitable practice when it comes to money, money for our employees? Is that something you can touch on? Absolutely. That's a really great point. So ideally, first, the organization has a credit card or credit cards assigned to individual employees. And this actually touches a little bit more sometimes on financial policies and procedures, but finding, we'll take a little detour real quick. A lot of times the credit cards that organizations have are tied to the credit of the person who applied. So you want to be really, really careful not to do that because you don't want a current executive director or former executive directors credit to be affected or to be financially liable for what the organization does. And if you can find a bank and I can make recommendations there so folks want to reach out, I could help them. But you want to find a bank that has a non-profit-oriented credit card where you can set individual limits. So maybe it's $100. Maybe it's $5,000. So staff don't have to put the money out themselves. Make sure you're turning around reimbursements right away. Absolutely. That you are covering those expenses that are incurred as well. So you have really clear policies around mileage and that it's a fair number like using the IRS rate. And that you're paying for other expenses that the staff have as well. Like maybe if it's work from home, it could be internet service or cell service. Yeah. And I think it's poignant to note that the IRS just increased their mileage reimbursement. I think in July, so make sure that we, I like that you called that out, that there is a valuation from IRS and that is a great, great best practice. What are some other big picture things that we should consider when it comes to this equity lens? Yeah. Paytime off is a really big one. There's a lot to unpack there. So first and foremost, be generous. So typically non-profit organizations can't pay the kinds of salaries that a business or government office could do. And so that time off really makes a big difference. And there are equity issues involved here because it's women and people of color who are most likely to have care given responsibilities. So make sure that you protect that sick time that it is separate from your vacation time. And you could even let staff borrow vacation time. There's no cost to the organization to do that. It's a little bit of record keeping, but it gives more flexibility to folks that need it. And also let staff when they are taking time off, let them be off. So don't keep checking in with them when they're out. And that means you might need to prepare for time off with a leave plan or an impromptu leave plan of if I'm out, here's a checklist of things you might need to know about. I'm curious. You mentioned, you know, there's different layers of equity, you know, going from that perspective and whatnot. How much of an input should the employees play in creating these equitable lens and practices for the handbook? Is this something that you really do inquire and you solicit feedback from the staff? Absolutely. It's super important that the organization is considering the impact of various policies on their staff. So for example, when you're thinking about your health insurance policy, maybe you have a really fantastic plan that the organization is paying for, but it means that dependents are really expensive to cover and the employee is responsible to cover that. So maybe for some staff, that's not a good plan. So really getting that feedback is helpful. You can do surveys in general of what are the benefits that you would prioritize, you know, get feedback on your current handbook as you're doing an update. And there are great opportunities for leadership within the organization of folks that might not typically get to help because they might not be mission-oriented staff, administrative staff, HR, financial staff, clerical staff that can participate in decision-making around employee policies, break time or working hours or benefits, a lot of different things. Yeah. You know, I have to bring up because I'm hearing her right now from a previous conversation, but we have Rita Sornan from the Dave Thomas Foundation and, you know, talking about adoption and fostering children. And I remember that has come up a lot in employee handbooks. So not just maternity, paternity leave, but also having, you know, benefits and policies written that allow that family unit for adoption and foster. What have you seen by way of that? Is that something you can talk about as well, Jody? Yeah, absolutely. And so I think of it as parental leave, not just maternity or paternity leave and including all different kinds of family structures. And so that includes not only birthing of parents, birthing of children by parents, adoption, fostering, surrogacy is a recent addition that we've made based on feedback that we have gotten from a family that had done a surrogacy. And so making sure that the family has time to bond, to heal, to take care of their new family member. And that if you can give paid parental leave and that's great, if you can't having other policies that help support that transition away from the office for a little while and then back into the organization. I love that you mentioned that. Thank you because, you know, it's not that I don't support it. I just didn't consider that, right? And so that to me is all the more reason to really ask your staff for feedback, you know, like what's important to you and what's important to you now might be different in five years or as you said, two to three years. So really, you know, soliciting that feedback is extremely helpful. And I appreciate you helping us see, you know, equity from a various lens and what we should consider. There's so much to consider. And again, we're just scratching the surface here in this very brief conversation. So where do we go once we do, you know, ask our staff, how do we update and refine our handbooks? Talk to us about this. Yeah, I think there's a few common areas for improvement. So paid time off is one of those that we've already talked about. Another one is accountability for executive directors. That's another major area for improvement. And so often the employee handbook talks about the relationship between the executive director or CEO and the rest of the staff. But that leader is a staff member themselves. And they have a boss, which is the board, and they need to be held accountable. So making sure that throughout your handbook, you are addressing where the executive director and the board fit together. So that can be staff participation and the executive director's annual performance review, or accountability, if maybe the ED is somebody who is involved in an issue that needs to get evaluation or review. So I would start by you getting that feedback from your staff, certainly. And then going section by section, what is included? How does it look? Are there any things that you want to add? You can look at models that exist as well in other places. Mostly the employee handbook samples that you will find from a payroll company or that you'll find online are going to be with a legal focus, which is an important lens, but it's not all that you need. And so if you're able to really think about it from a personnel perspective, from an organizational perspective, in addition to financial and legal, I think that's really helpful. And that's a big reason why we started doing this work, because there aren't a lot of resources to help with it. And then finally, once you get the handbook in the shape that you want, consulting with your attorney, make sure it goes through legal review, it's up to date with the current legal requirements. And then finally, it needs to be approved by the board. Once it's approved, each employee should sign an acknowledgement that they've had the opportunity to read and ask questions and that they will abide by it. Oh my gosh, I feel a little overwhelmed, mainly because it's not my wheelhouse, right? Like it's not where I'm really versed in this. One of the questions that came to my mind, Jodi, is we have so many staff now working from home or working remotely, right? How does that take a role into the conversation and into the handbook? Well, I did quite a bit of research early in the pandemic about work from home policies and including through a racial lens, equity lens, and found really that there is no common best way to do things. What's important is that it works for your staff and that you have some flexibility and that you have a plan. And so it's not that you need to have no meetings from 11 to 12 or that everybody should be in the office Monday, Wednesday, and Friday from 10 to noon, but making sure that there is clarity and people understand it and that you are not overdoing anything. People don't have to be on Zoom eight hours a day and people aren't disconnected from folks all day long either. That's really important. And I'm curious also if you can touch on multiple states, right? Like I have this assumption, this very stereotypical assumption that all employees are in the same state, but that's not true. So how do we address multiple locations? Absolutely. So first, you want to make sure that you know what the rules are in different states. So resources like your attorney or the society of human resource managers, if you're a member of that organization, SHARM, they have a multi-state tool where you can get that information. Your payroll provider might also provide that service. And then of course we can help with that as well. But knowing what those different rules are is really important. My perspective is you should have the same rules for everybody as much as possible. There are a couple cases where that's not really very possible. And so you need to take that into consider. State of California has very different rules about overtime than really everywhere else. And so that might be different. And then I also like to provide information about state-based programs. There's some states who have like a special short-term disability or workers comp program that might be different than what folks can get in other places. So just sharing that is informational instead of as a benefit for everybody. Great. We've talked a little bit with us about why it matters and as it pertains rather to retention and recruitment, that equity lens, the big picture, and then how we can update and refine. You had shared that you have a self-assessment. And we're not quite done with our conversation, but I'd love for you to tell us what your website, which is bigchange.llc, offers by way of a self-assessment because I can only imagine, Jodi, people are listening and they're thinking, oh my goodness, where do I start and where are we now? Like what is our baseline? So what is it you're offering there? Yes, we have a self-assessment that is set up in spreadsheet and it's bisection of topic. And so you go through 45 different topics and you rate them at three different levels. Essentially, we don't have it. We have something and it's okay, but it could be improved or we're really killing it. It's great. And then it gives you a score on the next tab overall and bisection. So you can say, wow, we're doing great on parental leave. We're really strong here, but we really don't have any salary transparency. That might be an area for us to dig in first. And then on your overall score, it has a basic recommendation of should we hire a DEI consultant or a HR consultant to really help us overhaul this? Or we're in really good shape. We just might want to take a look at one or two little things. Who should take that? I'm curious, should it be HR? Should it be CO? Who should be the one to take that assessment? I think whoever is most responsible for your employee handbook. So if you have an HR department, that's probably the place to do it. Or an operations director and smaller organizations and tiny organizations, probably the executive director. The one person sometimes. The one person. The fundraiser slash program director slash HR person. All of it. I am curious if you could talk to us a little bit about what it looks like to work with you. So if someone says, okay, we know that we have to refine and we know that we have to update our handbook. What does that timeline look like? Is it, you know, is it long? Is it short? Like, can you talk to us about what that would entail? Yeah, once we get going, it's about six weeks in most cases to take to get it finished. So that means starting with lots of conversation and reading. What is your organization like? What is the tone that you have, you want to have in your handbook? What are your goals for this project? What types of information do you have already? What do you want us to start with our template from scratch? Or do you want us to make refinements to yours? So really understanding the need of the organization. And then we'll have conversations about the stickier topics, which usually is PTO and maybe a couple of other things, pay time off. And then we'll come back with a proposal and then work back and forth through that to get the language exactly right for you. Answer your questions, remove sections that aren't applicable. Add in information that you think should be there. That's not in the original draft. And answer, we've even done trainings for staff and presentations to boards. So fantastic. Again, there's a reason that you're, you know, big change consulting that you're making some serious changes, Jodi. I just want to acknowledge that. And I want to thank you for that. Knowing that you're in our sector, you're in our community. And one of the things you said, which I think is worth repeating again, a lot of it has been, but I definitely want to repeat this one, is that, you know, this equity lens and employee handbooks is not just for the nonprofit community. It's really for all communities and all business sectors. And to have that is really important. So thank you for being here, Jodi Siegel, founder at Big Change Consulting. Again, those of you listening to podcast, hope that you'll check out her website. It's bigchange.llc. And I know that you're based in Ohio, but do you serve across the nation? Are you available for clients to reach out to you? Yes. We work all across the country. Our clients have been in California, Montana, Puerto Rico, Washington, DC, New York, all over the place. So you heard it. If you need her, she's there for you regardless of where you are and where your employees are. So do check out Jodi at Big Change Consulting. I love that this is a need in our community and you're addressing it. So, and you're addressing it, obviously, in a big, big way. So we're thrilled to have you here. Again, Julia Patrick and myself, Jared Ransome in conversation with Jodi today. We also want to thank our sponsors that allow us to have these conversations. They're all unscripted, I have to say. And so our sponsors really do believe in us. They believe in our conversations and our guests like you just heard today with Jodi Siegel. So again, thank you so very much. I want to acknowledge Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Your Part-Time Controller, Nonprofit Thought Leader, Staffing Boutique, Fundraising Academy at National University, as well as Nonprofit Nerd, the Raven Group. So thank you to these companies. They have kept these conversations going and growing for the last three years. And a lot has changed in the last three years, including your employee handbook. So again, thank you so very much to Jodi for joining us here today. We have amazing guests lined up for this week and next week. So Jodi, thank you for being one of our rock star guests and sharing this conversation with us. Thank you so much, Jared. This was really wonderful. Good. Well, I knew we would just scratch the surface. There's still so much more, but people know where to find you. And again, we like to remind every single one of you, those watching or listening live, are recorded to please stay well so you can continue to do well. Thank you, Jodi. Have a fantastic day.