 We had the best time doing the initial breakdown of the body language and behavior in this video and we decided we'd revisit some of our favorite moments from it. What made you come out here tonight? I went to my mom's late stage Alzheimer's patient, my dad's in the hospital, my mom gets anxious when she does. I went to check on them and Maggie, Maggie's a dog lover and she fools with the dogs and I knew she'd gone to the kennel. I was at the house, I left the house and went to my mom's for just a little while, tried to call her when I left, texted her, no response. When I got back to the house, the house was obviously nobody was in there so I figured they're still up here fooling around, Paul was going to be getting set up to plant our sunflower seeds, got sprayed and died and he was re-figuring to do, to plant the sunflower seeds. So I came back up here and drove up and saw and called. Greg what do you got? Yeah, this is the first time we see him touch his face, touch his nose, look you'll hear people say if a person touches their nose or line, no we're not those folks, what we're saying is look for a deviation in baseline and ask yourself why. It's a pertinent question and a hard question. What made you come out here tonight? He uses his left hand, touches his face, suddenly he does one of the most powerful male adapters that exist, I call it butterfly thighs and if you ever want to see, men will flip their legs, their thighs in and out, that way younger men do it a lot and it has a lot of impact so that's a big comforting move for a guy to do. All an adapter is a way for you to release nervous energy and if we do them enough they become habitual. So if you don't know what yours are, the way you release nervous energy, ask someone next to you, ask someone who knows you well because they know what you do when you're releasing nervous energy, maybe you pick your nails, flip your hair, do something like that. Then he starts to tell a long story that has no pertinence to anything we're talking about and that is I went to see my mama, my mama's sick, she's got dementia. My mom's a late stage Alzheimer's patient, my dad's in the hospital, my mom gets anxious. And he goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and he gives you the cookbook. We call that chaff and redirect because an aircraft drops chaff to hope a missile will follow it rather than the story. That's what he's doing. He's dropping lots of details hoping you'll follow that. That's odd usually but again my wife and son are lying a hundred yards away dead. And I'm going to tell you about my mom's jello she had for lunch. Come on. And he's adapting like all hell with that issue with his hands and with the other. He goes to that dog lover. She fools with a dog. Boom. One shoulder rises. We hadn't seen that yet. We see a single shoulder. We often associate that with discomfort in the information they're sharing. He does a pause. He does a down left, looks down left, which we associate with internal voice and he does a head scratch. We associate all of those things with thinking with giving yourself time to think. He doesn't say what he saw drove up and saw either with words or with body language or with tone. None of that. And cold. I think the female law enforcement officer in the back senses it because watch her cross her abdomen in discomfort as he's telling that story. I bet if you went and talked to him and say this guy day one we thought he killed his wife. That's exactly what I think you'd see. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, there's a cascade of negative statements. Victon statements really. The parents are ill and anxious. Maggie's a dog lover. Doesn't love him, loves the dogs. She falls with the dogs. That's negative rather than going, she looks after those dogs so well. If she's falling with the dogs and he's texted her and there's no response. So she's not attentive to him. And then Paul is associated with sunflowers dying. So again, not being able to and that will, more of this story will come out and maybe he's laying down this story early. But essentially everybody is inept. Ultimately parents are non-functioning. Mom's a late stage Alzheimer's patient. My dad's in the hospital. Wife loves animals. Maggie's a dog lover. She falls with the dogs. She messes around and doesn't answer the phone. I tried to call her when I left. Texted her. No response. And Paul can't look after sunflowers. Sunflower seeds got sprayed and died and he was refiguring to do, to plant the sunflower seeds. So really casting a bad light on the victims there and him being around people who can't look after themselves or the things that are important or him. That alone is a loud, a loud flag. You can't have a loud flag. I'm going to say it anyway. It's a loud flag. It's a loud, loud flag. Chase, what do you got on this one? This is detail overload. There's a few things I want you to notice as you go through the video again in just a second. Number one, the detail and the chronology of everything is loaded and piled high. But none of the details are about finding out who did this. There is no request to investigate the scene or talk about the word murder. It's the last word in the world that he wants to come out of his mouth at a moment like this. And the confirmation glance is back and forth where he's checking that detective with every detail. In this clip especially, just to make sure he's buying it, are just a classic hallmark of deception. And one of the things we look for when we see a lot of other behaviors and they're outside of baseline, like we're seeing here. And when he says obviously nobody was in there, I think he's telling us it was obvious to him that nobody was going to be in that house. And finally we have something called severity softening and lack of detail. There's tons of minute, perfect little details about the intricate process he's going through with these sunflower seeds. Our sunflower seeds got sprayed and died. Ben, what's the detail on the crime scene? Drove up and saw and called. That's the difference between sunflower seeds versus dead family members here. Scott? After the question you're right Greg, he touches the middle part of his head there, the middle of his brow there. I haven't seen that yet other than rubbing his whole face. And then he does this really quick request for approval. That's another one of Greg's things where our brows go up as you're looking to get something okay or you're asking a question and you need some information. His eyebrows go up and he starts adapting. I guess what you call that butterfly thing Greg. Then he starts using his Kleenex as an adapter, which we talked about what happened earlier. We talked about that was going to happen. A whole lot of movement in comparison to the baseline we've seen up at this point. Up to this point because he's been fairly still up till now. This is where it makes me think something would be up with this. Then he starts going down this list of stuff and his voice is, uh-huh, and then this, uh-huh, it's just a list. I went to check on them and Maggie and I knew she'd gone to the kennel. Tried to call her, texted her, no response. He's rehearsed this. He knew what he was going to say when he came into this. When this question came up, he's got his list of things that happened and things that he was going to talk about. We see a couple of those little shoulder shrugs, a single shoulder shrug here and a single one there and then a full one there. But the thing is with shoulder shrugs and you'll hear a lot of things about them. But here's what we are in the impression or understand that shoulder shrugs indicate. So when one shoulder goes up, that indicates the person isn't sure about their answer. Not that they're being deceptive, but it just says they're not sure about what that answer is and I think he's afraid. He's trying to make sure he's covering every basis. He's thinking about that. I guess in his brain, maybe he's thinking, okay, I've got that covered. Let me see what else I got that. I think as he goes down this list, that's why we're seeing those things. But throughout this, he still hasn't used that Kleenex for what you use him for. All right, we good? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I wouldn't say it's you. What made you come out here tonight? I went to my mom's late stage Alzheimer's patient. My dad's in the hospital. My mom gets anxious when she does. I went to check on them and Maggie. Maggie's a dog lover and she fools with the dogs. And I knew she'd gone to the kennel. I was at the house. I left the house and went to my mom's for just a little while. Tried to call her when I left. Texted her, no response. When I got back to the house, the house was obviously nobody was in there. So I figured they're still up here fooling around. Paul was going to be getting set up to plant our sunflower seeds, got sprayed and died and he was refiguring to do to plant the sunflower seeds. So I came back up here and drove up and saw and called. Had Maggie and Paul been arguing over anything? No. What was their relationship like? Wonderful. Wonderful. What about yours and Maggie's? Wonderful. I mean, I'm sure we had little things here and there, but we had a wonderful marriage, wonderful relationship. And yours and Paul's relationship? As good as it could be. How old was Paul? 22. Okay. You know his date of birth? I do. April 11th, 96th is his brother's April 14th, 99th is Paul's. Have y'all been having any problems out here? Cross passers, people breaking in. None that I know of. The only thing that what comes to my mind is my son Paul was in a boat wreck a couple years ago and there's been a, you know, he was charged with being arrested for being the driver. There's been a lot of negative publicity about that and there's been a lot of people online just really vile stuff. But when Paul's out and about, I mean people routinely, I don't think I know the full story because I don't think they give it to me, but I mean, he's been punched and hit and just attacked a lot. So, you know, but I mean, nothing like this. Chase, what do you got? There's some strange head movement here. There's shaking and nodding mixed together, which you do not see in this culture. And I think this is confused on his part of which behavior to display. And you can confirm this confusion by the fact that he starts doing what I call intent checking. He's glancing repeatedly at the detective here in this instance to determine what kind of intent the detective has and the angle that he's taking with some of these questions. And when he offers the brother's birthday, April 11th, 96th is his brother's April 14th, 99th is Paul's. This is a miniature resume statement here and he's offering the details that suggest that he's a caring and good father. See I know both of their birthdays and I think he's doing that mostly unconsciously. And when there's a question about the trespassers, have y'all been having any problems out here? Trespassers are breaking in. The response to the question is an insertion of ambiguity into the case. None that I know of. The only thing that what comes to my mind is my son, Paul, was in a boat wreck. If I asked you if strangers come into your house often, your answer would be no, probably not. I would say this is maybe going on Mark's scale. This is maybe a volume nine or a 8.5 on the 10 scale flag. There's an inability to identify a perpetrator. There is no concern to find out who did this at all. He wants to keep the net cast as wide as possible for what might have happened. And he still won't say murder. He skips over the murder every single possible time that it comes up. Every time here. Mark. Yeah, so I love this one where his leg starts getting excited, it starts going up and down. And now as well there, Greg, as well. But it's even more joyous around this idea of introducing the boat story. Because I think he's now laying down some ideas of potential trouble that may lead to a perpetrator. And I think he looks off to his side there not only to check intent, but to work out how's my story landing on this one? Is this one? Is this one I should go a little bit further down that my, you know, my son may well have an enemy out there. And we also, this is off baseline as well. We also start to see his hand nearest to the driver to the officer just becomes more active. And I haven't seen his hand that active and that descriptive. So I think he's becoming quite excited and buoyant around how this story might work out for him. This is off baseline for me. Scott, what have you got on this one? All right. Here's where he lives to the murders being due to that boat accident. Oh, it was in a boat wreck. That's cold. When you're trying to blame something on something your son did, that's, that, that says a lot about this guy's personality type. And we ask about the, when he's asked about the relationship with his son. In yours and Paul's relationship? As good as it could be. His head shakes and it turned, no, and then it starts turning like Chase was saying to like a little bobblehead doll. So there's a lot going on there at that point as well. And that's probably true that the relationship is as, is as good as it could be, you know, as it could possibly be. And that's because I don't, they probably didn't get along very well. So it was as good as it could possibly be because maybe the, the child didn't like him. Maybe the wife didn't like him because he says the same thing about her as well, as good as it could possibly be. Greg, what do you got? Yeah, so I couldn't pay a person to illustrate baseline better than this guy does. He's asked two questions about his relationship with his son and about his relationship with his wife. And in both instances, he says, wonderful. But go back, watch his body language when he says wonderful. When he says wonderful about his son, it's pretty straight body language. Wonderful. We says wonderful about his wife. Now we know that they're estranged. Wonderful. He breaks eye contact moves away to the side. His face changes and he's entirely different when he's saying that all this, we see a pattern. We see his baseline when he's comfortable. We see a deviation and we get a chance to see two very different answers using the same English. If, if you think that body language is hokum, watch that and tell me it's hokum, tell me you can't see something that's going on. Two different messages, same words. When he gets down to the mechanics and he starts to tell that boat story, his thighs start moving as Mark said, he starts to march in place with that one foot and his blink rate increases. He does a left shoulder shrug again when he says nothing like this. Well, of course, nothing like this. Yeah, they hit him. They said bad things to him and never came out and killed him. That's all I got. Yeah, I wouldn't say it's you. Had Maggie and Paul been arguing over anything? No. What was their relationship like? Wonderful. Wonderful. How about yours and Maggie's? Wonderful. I mean, I'm sure we had little things here and there, but we had a wonderful marriage, wonderful relationship. And yours and Paul's relationship? As good as it could be. How old was Paul? 22. You know his date of birth? I do. April 11th, 96th is his brother's. April 14th, 99th is Paul's. Have y'all been having any problems out here? Trust passers, people breaking in? None that I know of. The only thing that what comes to my mind is my son, Paul, was in a boat wreck a couple years ago. And there's been a, you know, he was charged with being arrested for being the driver. There's been a lot of negative publicity about that. And there's been a lot of people online just really vile stuff. But when Paul's out and about, I mean, people routinely, I don't think I know the full story. So I don't think they give it to me, but I mean, he's been punched and hit and just attacked a lot. So, you know, but I mean, nothing like this. Yeah. So is there anybody that you can think of that we need to talk to tonight? Is there a name that comes to mind? I mean, I can't tell you anybody that I'm overly suspicious of off the top of my head. OK. You know, I mean, this is such a stupid thing. I'm even embarrassed to say it, but it just didn't make any sense. I just hired a guy out here. And he's really, he wasn't cutting the mustard, but I hadn't told him this yet. Paul's been working with him a lot. He killed sunflower seeds in our dove field just recently, which is why Paul was here doing this. He told Paul a story the other day about how when he was in high school, he got in a fight with some black guys. And the FBI undercover team observed him fighting those guys and put him on an undercover team with three Navy SEALs and that their job was to kill radical Black Panthers. And they did that from Myrtle Beach to Savannah. Now, I really don't think this guy, you know, is probably the person, but that's just so frigging. Yeah, that's kind of far fetched story. But he was off today. OK, he took his daddy to the doctor. What's his name? C.B. Roe. Oh, Chase, what do you got? Right at the beginning of this clip, you can see him try to adjust himself to look more comfortable and more relaxed. The moment he does this, you're going to see his body completely disagree with him. It's going to move his hand back almost just without his consent to protect the groin and the femoral artery here. And do you know what other emotion that would be coming up here that's missing is anger? Anger would be present here. And just pay close attention to what is not being said here. And I think in my opinion, you might hear a murderer talking if you just listen to what's not being said and what's being ignored. Greg. Yeah, there's no anger. There's no rush. There's no urgency. None of that. As a matter of fact, listen to the cadence of his storytelling slow down, slow down. This is what has it been 30 minutes of him sitting in a car? I would be looking for help. He gives into, you know, you know, you know, there's a new word, a new phrase he's injecting that indicates he's comfortable and thinking and talking. And that's his filler words starting to come up. It's not scrambled. It's not compressed. None of that's going on. There's more concern in the cops, Brown and in the guy in the back seat. And there isn't his. This is his family. There's that zygomatic muscle again that we said makes your face want to smile. It sure looks like he's almost smiling when he's telling that story. Well, we know that earlier what the study said was if your frontalis muscle was down in in sadness and that that was probably an indicator. He also starts to turtle chase after he goes back and he gets forced into that position, then he shrinks a bit. And we say turtling your head and your torso shrink and make your target smaller. This cadence is unlike anything else we've heard. I think it's because he has already been rehearsing this story and he knows what he's going to say. This guy who told me this story and well, if you if you're trying to figure out who to point somebody to and you'd have a lot of details when I would just say, hey, there's a guy who works for me. He's a little shady. Maybe you want to go check him if that were the case. I don't think that's the case. And this is the first time, the single first time he's used his right hand to illustrate anything when he's talking about this guy. It's been at his groin, as I call it, protecting the precious this entire time. That's another red flag. Scott, what do you got? All right. Now he's trying to put the suspicion on somebody else. He brings in this other guy that that work for him. They just hired that isn't working out. And again, we're not seeing the emotion someone goes through as they relive this experience of what just happened. The most horrible things ever happened to him. We don't see that uncontrollable, uncontrollable sobbing, no wailing and crying, nothing. We don't even see one tear. And he has and I've been looking, nothing. We don't see he doesn't tear up. There's nothing in there. There's no tears at all. We don't see that detachment you'll see from when someone goes through something that bad. Why I know why this happened to go back to that. He should be distraught. This guy is not distraught. He sounds like he's talking about some things that we tell stories. It's like he's talking about something happened last week. Guess what happened last week? This and then going through it. He just gives us a list of things and never tears up. Doesn't use his his Kleenex either. Nothing's looking the way it should look. I keep going back to that. But that's I think that's the most important thing here. Nothing looks as it should look up to now. All right, Mark, what do you got? Yeah, this is a beautiful scene. You can't even write this stuff. It's genius. The the officer says, look, is there anybody that we should be looking at? So is there anybody we need to talk to tonight? Is there a name that comes to mind? And while he says that, he covers his mouth because he knows, I think that he's looking at the perpetrator right now. So he's even blocking himself to the to the lie of the question that he's asking there. This guy comes up with an amazing story. It's it's a brilliant story whereby you've got a kid, high school kid, you know, gets in a fight, FBI, CM, they've got a whole bunch of Navy SEALs and they go after the Black Panthers. And I love this line. They did that from Myrtle Beach to Savannah. It's just a great, I can, you know, just picture it in my head. The Navy SEALs in this high school kid, the Myrtle Beach is fantastic. I just all that rough stuff happening in Myrtle Beach. And then all the way down to I think they have to go through through Charlotte or something like that or Charleston or something. I don't know. I can't remember. But yeah, yeah. But I'm just picturing the scene there as well. The awful carnage. The awful carnage up and down the coast that's going on. So, I mean, what an amazing story. And the cop, again, like does a double take on it? Just does it what the hell's going on here? And he does say, look, I'm embarrassed to say this. I'm even embarrassed to say it. But then he goes, yeah, I felt that story was a bit off. But he did take the day off today. Kind of forfeit story. But he was off today. Like what a brilliant equation. It's a nutty story. Obviously, it's utter nuts. But he did take the day off. So I think you should be looking at him. Just brilliant, brilliant, brilliant logic. Love it. You don't know about the FBI Navy Seal High School Recruiter Killer Team. Oh, no. It's really Shores Club. Everybody knows that story in the US. That's like a classic all the way from Myrtle Beach to say. No, because last time was in Myrtle Beach. Nobody boarded up. So they have to sell cookies. I think I've talked about there's something, you know, you don't talk about it. Oh, you're too British. Oh, that's I'm sorry. That was a Girl Scouts. Somebody sells cookies. Right. I was in it, but they kicked me out for crying. Yeah, I wouldn't see you. So is there anybody that you can think of that we need to talk to tonight? Is there a name that comes to mind? I mean, I can't tell you anybody that I'm overly suspicious of. Off the top of my head. You know, I mean, this is such a stupid thing. I'm even embarrassed to say it, but it just didn't make any sense. I just hired a guy out here and he really, he wasn't cutting the mustard, but I hadn't told him this yet. Paul's been working with him a lot. He killed the sunflower seeds in our dove field just recently, which is why Paul was here doing this. He told Paul the story the other day about how when he was in high school, he got in a fight with some black guys and FBI undercover team observed him fighting those guys and put him on an undercover team with three Navy SEALs and that their job was to kill radical black Panthers. And they did that from Myrtle Beach to Savannah. Now I really don't think this guy, you know, is probably the person, but that's just so frigging. Yeah, that's kind of far-fetched story. But he was off today. He took his daddy to the doctor. What's his name? C.B. Rowe.