 Okay. Here we go. Welcome. I'm Miro, the track chair. This is Microsoft invited as a featured speech about redefining the mind shift at Microsoft. Yes. Thanks a lot for showing up here, and I'm really excited to have you here, and thank you, and I'm really eager to hear what you're having to tell us. Thank you, Miro, and thanks to the organizers of this conference for this really wonderful opportunity to be here today. My name is Grace Francisco. I'm actually from San Francisco, believe it or not. That's true. Then what's also true is I do work for Microsoft. I've been working for Microsoft for eight years, and the last two and a half years, believe it or not, has been all focused around open-source community work. I am on Twitter, that's my Twitter ID, GraceFR. If you're looking to find out what I'm eating or where I'm going, you're not going to find it there, but I try to share some useful tidbits. Along with me today, along with me today, I have Mark Brown, the teddy bear-looking guy over there. He's a technical marketing for Azure. Sorry. By the way, on Twitter, you're likely just to be offended by what I have to say rather than what I'm eating. And on his other side, Brian Swan is a technical writer, also on the Azure team. And then Mikayla Kraft on the end there, the beautiful Mikayla Kraft. She is a local person in Western Europe that covers this area. All of us actually focus on open-source. That may or may not be a surprise to some of you guys, but we actually have hundreds, thousands of people in Microsoft that do something with open-source in the company worldwide. As a company, we actually are very committed to openness, and we demonstrate that in three very specific ways. We really have a commitment around playing well with others, and we do that by being involved regularly in standards, by really being involved in making sure that open-source technologies work with our technologies as well. We listen very carefully to our customers, and as a result, we look at ways to combine our technologies with other technologies to ensure that we're providing innovative solutions that are cost-effective for them and efficient. And we are open in the cloud. We're open in the cloud today. You can actually develop on Azure, which is our cloud platform, and use Java. You can use Python. You can use PHP. You can use Node.js today on Azure. And Mark is gonna be talking in a little bit here about more specific things that we're enabling with open-source project on Azure. So I'm gonna take a minute here to talk a little bit more about how we're investing in standards, what we're doing with embracing and enabling these open-source projects. This may come as a surprise to some of you guys, but Microsoft has actually been involved in standards work for over 20 years, and today we're actually part of 150 official standards organizations and part of 400 working groups. And we do that because we see that as a critical and essential way that we enable interoperability with other projects, with other open-source projects and other technologies. And that is because we all want happy customers. No single vendor can possibly offer all of the solutions a single customer's complex environment might need. And so we do that so that we have a happy customer that can use any device connected to any system and have it work the way that they expect. A few other factoids about the stuff we've been doing with open-source. In a single year, because of all the work we're doing to enable these open-source projects in our platform, we had 400% growth just in a single year alone. So we have over 350,000 projects that zero scooted over on Mark's Mac. Sorry. And that's $350,000, not 35, $350, it's $350,000 projects working on Windows. 23 of the top 25 open-source projects actually work on our platform. CodePlex, some of you may or may not be familiar is one of the open-source communities that we've been fostering. That continues to grow with numbers of open-source projects that we and other people in the community continue to contribute. And we have 300,000 registered users that also is continuing to grow. Microsoft Web Gallery is where we have a listing of many of the web applications that also work on our platform. And we have well over 5 million downloads. They're since inception over three years ago. One of those, actually two of those popular applications that's being downloaded is Acquia Drupal's package. And the second one being Commerce Kickstart. And I'll mention also the third, since Brian's team is here, Bing Joomla. And here I'm gonna turn it over to Mark so he can talk more about how we're involved with open-source and our product groups and how we're enabling those. Mark? Right, thanks Grace. So I think everybody kind of remembers the famous Linux as a cancer comment that our famous CEO made some years ago. While that was something that stands out in the news and certainly stands out in people's mind, it actually internally at Microsoft was something of a watershed event. As a lot of people who have been with the company for a lot of years actually were involved with the open-source community and understood open-source for what it really is rather than what the perceptions were internally among the leadership of the time. I mean, and one of the big things that kind of fell out of that was for us to really organize around open-source technologies and to work to try and integrate and interoperate with them. And one of those things was the creation of our open-source technology center. And through that technology center, we basically hired a lot of Linux developers and low-level developers to try and work with Linux and then try and work to interoperate with Linux and other open-source technologies. Some of the things you'll see out of that or have seen out of that is a lot of contributions we've been giving to Linux and in fact Microsoft now is one of the top contributors to the Linux kernel and we provide drivers for Linux and also provide integration with our Hyper-V virtualization technology. One of the other big contributions that came out of that group was contributions to PHP, beginning with version PHP 5.3, Microsoft and along with guys like Pierre Joy who was up here in the session just beforehand, along with a lot of other PHP core contributors, essentially took and rewrote all of PHP and then created a build for Windows in there. So a lot of PHP and of course the legacy for PHP is on Unix and of course Win32 and our operating system and libraries work a little differently. We wanted to make PHP work really well on Windows and so instead of maintaining a consistent code base, we decided we'd maintain consistent APIs and then optimize the source code underneath and optimize that for Windows and a lot of that had to do with a lot of file IO and some other stuff involved in there. The result you get now is essentially parity for PHP running on Windows as you would get on Unix or Linux. What else have I got in there? Oh, and then other stuff around Samba. I think everybody's aware with our contributions and work with those guys as well. Yeah, next slide. Yeah, Brian, you want to talk a little bit about SQL Server and the work you guys have done? Put me on the spot here. Sure, why not? Okay, so towards making sure PHP not only runs well on SQL Server but that you have a full range of functionality that you would expect from PHP running on Windows. We put a lot of work into a PHP driver for SQL Server. That is an open source project. It's on, I think it's now on GitHub. It used to be on CodePlex but we've recently moved it to GitHub. What the biggest request that we've had for that driver, I mean we've had lots of little requests and we've tried to implement those but the single biggest request that we've had has been that it runs on PHP running on Linux so that you can have SQL Server access from PHP on Linux. We recently released an ODVC driver for Linux, a SQL Server ODVC driver for Linux and if you put two and two together you can see that since our PHP driver now sits on top of ODVC APIs on Windows it's not gonna be too long before that scenario is enabled. So some of the other stuff we've been working on certainly around our web platform and around particularly our IAS product. IAS used to be pretty awful frankly as a web server back in the IAS five and six days. That largely changed with IAS seven. We've just basically just chucked a lot of it and rewrote most of that from scratch. FastCGI or implementing FastCGI on our platform to host PHP applications was a part of that. A lot of the other work that went into making it better though were a lot of code we wrote that we actually ended up just open sourcing in general. WinCache is kind of a functional APC cache so it's an opcode cache for PHP and then also a user cache for data that you may pull out of MySQL. That's completely open sourced. It's actually contributed to Peckle as well so if you go and install PHP on Windows you can go and pull down this Peckle extension and then automatically get 200% plus improvement for PHP on Windows. Managing PHP for some, at least in the Windows world can be a little confusing. So another project we created was PHP Manager which is just a plugin for IAS and we decided we would just open source that as well. So that's also available. Quite a few years ago we created this thing called ASP.net Ajax. And what we realized is that it didn't make a lot of sense for us to create our own version of kind of JavaScript library so we ended up just chucking that thing and then adopting jQuery and now we're actually one of the largest contributors to jQuery and we actually ship jQuery with our tools in there. The point I'm trying to make there is that even within our own .net community there was kind of a mind shift happening that was growing out of just people that were working strictly with kind of the Linux and the PHP communities into our own web developer communities and realizing that it makes much more sense to contribute to existing successful projects than it is to try and compete with them even if you do open source the code that's with there or within them. And so that kind of mind shift kind of just started trickling up and out within the company and so after we started doing contributions to jQuery the team that basically does all our web platform stuff for all the ASP .net stuff said well maybe we should take that same approach with our own technologies and so some of the other stuff they've been doing now is they've now taken an open source pretty much the entire code base for all the ASP .net stuff. So ASP .net MVC, there's a web API and then we have a razor view engine which is like an MVC view engine and then another thing called the entity framework to kind of the point they're making is that the whole understanding and how to work with the open source communities was now starting to kind of grow outwards and touch a larger section of the company and even into our own .net engineering teams there. Another slide. Right and so that kind of continues now actually and the leadership that's been a part of that part of the company is now largely running a lot of our Azure and our cloud stuff. So some of the work we've been doing now and includes not just Drupal but other web communities like Joomla and then of course there's other open source communities in the .net world like in Brocco and .net Nuke and now that's going even further now with work with Java and Node.js and then kind of finally the big kind of big coup was support for Linux itself within our own cloud platform. So now if you wanna go and host your applications in our Windows Azure cloud platform you can choose Windows if you want or you can choose Linux or if you want you can upload your own flavor of Linux even. So it's actually now really to the point where that mind shift is actually kind of reflected in the products and the services that we wanna come to market with because we really believe that the choice is what matters and the ability to make that choice. So I think now it's kind of really come full circle for us as a company. So one of the, as Mark talked, just said the where you're seeing a lot of the change now is in our Azure platform and where you're seeing, where you'll see that if you go to any one of our one of our dev centers. What we've realized in, one of the things that we've learned in being committed to open source and interoperability is that documentation cannot take a backseat. It can't be an afterthought. And if you take a look at there's just a screen shot up there of what's available on our dev center and the various languages that we are supporting and trying to provide documentation for. Certainly presents its challenges in trying to document all of these other languages that other groups and communities are producing and document the interoperability between those languages in our platform. One of the things that we learned was that MSDN didn't work. I don't know if any of you have tried to use MSDN documentation but that was not something that was gonna work for us. What we needed to do was get documentation in front of where people are reading documentation, where you guys go for it and put it in a format that you're used to and can digest easily. So you see a lot more blogs that are focused on open source technology. You see a lot more, you see our documentation, we've contributed documentation to PHP.net. And if you take a look at the Windows Azure Dev Center, you'll see an entirely different format different from the MSDN format as well. And I think the crowning jewel at least in my view about documentation is that all the documentation is also open source. It's all in markdown on GitHub. So when you see that bug in the documentation that says, wait a minute, that code example doesn't work or something isn't explained clearly, you can fork it and submit a pull request and have that merged into the documentation and it gets published on a weekly basis. So that's, you know, we're taking not only the mind shift that has gone into the product and the services that we're offering, you know, is also reflected in the documentation and the processes for our publishing documentation. And as far as the work that we've done to increase our openness with Drupal, I've actually been working specifically in the Drupal community for the last two and a half years and some of that work actually started well before I took on my role. And just to give you a sense for, you know, the work that we've done over across this timeline. In 2010, we actually partnered up with the commerce guys and sponsored the work that they were doing around the SQL server integration. And then we extended that work to also include SQL Azure and Azure itself. So they actually built and contributed modules to Drupal.org that people could use to enable SQL server integration, SQL Azure integration and Azure deployment. In terms of listening to customers, I started working with Jacob Redding and the Drupal association was really, you know, when I started out this work, I spent a lot of time listening to feedback, listening to what the needs of the community were all about. And some of the things that came back pretty readily was, hey, you know, we have some of these windows developers and you know, they try to download the modules. They're all in tar file and some of them just don't know what to do with that because they're new to the platform. They don't understand what to do with these tar files. Wouldn't it be great if actually we had zip file formats by the way we're doing a Drupal.org, you know, revision of the website. And so we talked about, you know, helping and sponsoring updates to the site overall, which also included zip files format. So anytime you actually upload a new module that automatically gets converted to zip. And a year later I'd heard Robert Douglas actually say, you know, it's something like 44% of the downloads were actually in that zip file format. So that got put to use pretty quickly. The other piece of feedback that I got was, you know, Drush was the de facto tool people were using and you know, people were really trying to cobble this together on windows. You know, somewhat successfully, but not really and it was a really painful process. So we invested and sponsored some work with pro people, which is now Wunderkraut, yeah, pro people, which is now Wunderkraut. But back then they were pro people and I also sponsored some work there to get Drush compatible on windows. Last March in Denver, Moshe was doing a big Drush session, which he's doing right now actually in another room. And one of the things he said was, it's arguably easier to install Drush on windows today than on any other platform. And that was due to the investment and really the partnering that we did with Moshe and Greg Anderson and folks in the community that volunteered as well as pro people in their work and making that compatible. We also invested on actually creating a set of content to be delivered in person in Denver, which was Drupal at scale on windows, because we got a lot of questions over and over again at the booth about, you know, we don't have the guidance around this, how do we deploy this at scale, you know, what's the equivalent of the things that I'm using on my lamp stack to Windows Server. So we enlisted the help of a Microsoft MVP who happened to also be a Red Hat Atlantic certified engineer. And he was able to talk and create training that was in terms of what you guys know and understand. And so that was delivered in Denver and we actually have that online for free on channel nine. So you can actually consume that content now. The other thing that we did this past year is we actually contributed directly a couple of modules. One is the WinCache module to be integrated directly with Drupal. That's again performance optimization. Mark referred to that a little bit earlier. And OData, which is unless a standard basically for data exchange. And so both of these modules have been contributed to Drupal.org directly by our teams. We're also an inaugural Drupal supporting partner. And this is our seventh DrupalCon and we've got several more that we've already enlisted subscribed for in this coming year. So you're gonna continue to see more and more of us and you know, we are really happy to be here and talking with everyone. So please we're here to listen to your feedback. We'd love to talk to you more. You've got any questions we're at the booth and we'd love to talk to you. Mikhail? My great set, I'm working in the field and I'm really the counterpart. Can you hear me? I can hear you. Yes. I can hear myself as well. Let's do it this way. Better? Good. So I'm the counterpart to my colleagues from the US. So I'm really working in the field and I work a lot with the Drupal shops to make this partnership more lively. And on this list, you can see my daily work. So on one hand side, I'm helping sponsoring different events. But what we have also started really to do is if you are planning a code sprint or something like this, you can contact us because we have in all the country's offices and we are more than happy to give you these offices for free, use all the facilities. On one hand side, this is taking away a lot of organizational, overload to you folks. And you can really come together as a community and use these facilities for your code sprints or whatever events you are planning. Then we have also started roughly one and a half year ago to work with the CXO community of Drupal. And twice a year, the CXOs across Europe, they meet and they also use our facilities and I participate in these kind of events because Microsoft did also grow as a company and we had also our challenges. So I can really help and support the CXOs with different questions like how can we do better marketing for Drupal? So also really some business topics. Yeah, and we are also doing some projects together. So for example, one year ago, one of the Drupal shops contacted me and he said, hey, I have a big customer who has SharePoint and he would like to use Drupal. So I was really helping this shop or this project to come together and we have now a running project in the Netherlands where we have SharePoint and Drupal integrated together. And this is also very positive for the community because you don't have very often the Microsoft knowledge. So we can really bring together some specialists and help you to gain the knowledge but also on the other hand side, the customer is really happy if there is also a bigger company behind where they have already some licenses installed. Another project is Microsoft Health. I don't know if you ever heard about Microsoft Health. It's a specific solution for the health environment. And a Drupal shop who is now a Microsoft partner as well pinged me and he said, hey, I have a big hospital who would like to use Drupal and the Microsoft Health solution together. So now we have integrated both products and this hospital is publishing some information of his health environment using Microsoft Health. And we are also working a lot now with the government. So as you might know, the governments are in front of open data projects and also here the question is how can we help each other to really bring open data, open government projects together with Drupal. And we have now some projects in Ireland, in Austria, in Germany, where we really made this kind of partnership life in projects. So this is a little bit what you can expect from us, from myself, if you have something in your mind, feel free to ping me. Now, one question I get a lot is, how do we connect the dots to you guys in the Drupal community and things that we can offer? And actually as a company, we offer a number of different programs that are the things that are probably most relevant for you guys to know about is two things. BizBark, Microsoft BizBark is actually for Starts. It's a program that enables startups to have access to our developer tools, our platform technologies like SQL server, Windows server, and even our cloud platform for no fee access. And this is really to help bootstrap their businesses as they're a fledgling startup and getting their business up and running. And then similarly, Microsoft WebsiteSpark is a program targeted to individual website developers as well as web agencies, small web agencies. And again, it's to reduce the sort of startup costs associated with having a business, and you're trying to build or test for your customers who are on Windows platform or on Azure, and it enables that easy friction free access to those licenses. The program also provides special offers that our network partners have in terms of special discounts for their services and fees. We often sometimes have special events and local venues that we'll invite our members to. So these are great programs to consider if you're either a startup or a small web agency or independent web consultant. The Commerce Guys specifically, we recently announced two, three months ago, they were accepted into our top tier, BizBark One program. BizBark actually has three tiers. So the first entry tier, most startups are qualified for, most young startups are qualified for it's BizBark. And there's BizBark Plus in that program, you have to be sort of nominated in by local folks in the offices and you get access to more Azure hours and benefits. But BizBark One enables them to have closer ties with us at Microsoft corporate. They actually have a specific person that they're assigned to as their portfolio manager at our corporate offices and they have increased benefits as part of that program. And then the reason we have this program is we're really trying to identify high potential startups. And we saw Commerce Guys as being one of these types of startups. And so we really want to ensure by having someone connect the dots for them within corporate because we're such full, kind of a big company being at 90,000 people. You kind of need help, sort of navigating our system. So they got help from a number of people actually both corporate and worldwide in our offices to ensure their success on Azure and their deployment. And lastly, I want to just talk about how a lot of this stuff comes together in a customer success story. SAG Awards, so that's a Screen Actors Guild. They have this huge Hollywood awards ceremony that happens in January. Now for most of the year, their traffic pattern is pretty flat. It's not a whole lot of traffic that comes throughout the year. But leading up to that ceremony in January, starting in November, they start to see spikes in their traffic. It's not very consistent. They're literally seeing the traffic spike up because of some announcement. And it's like up some more. And obviously in the days leading up to the event itself, they see a tremendous surge of traffic that happens. They've got a huge amount of content, huge amount of traffic spikes. And so in previous years, what they would do is they would throw a bunch of hardware at it. But even in throwing all that hardware, they would still see system failures and go down. And this past year, what they did was they decided they were gonna place their bets on Azure and move their Drupal, Drupal 7 website to Azure. And I say that a lot of this stuff comes together because in doing that, they actually use the Azure and SQL Azure modules in the commerce guys. That helped to enable this particular scenario. And on top of that, in the migration process, they actually use Drush on Windows. They use Drush on Windows to automate a lot of the migration, including pulling out the content from their MySQL databases and importing those into SQL Azure. And so that automated a lot of what would otherwise be a manual process. And that actually used Drush, which I thought was wonderful. So in that single night, that one premiere night, what they saw was basically over 300,000 visitors, just in one night alone. And 800,000 page views. As compared with the year before, they only saw about 200,000 visitors and about 300,000 page views. So the lower number of page views tells me, people got to this site, but they weren't able to navigate around because of the extreme traffic loads. Azure enables you to be able to scale up and scale down as you need those resources and be able to manage the type of low that you're experiencing at that point in time. So I hope that helps with, understanding some of what comes together when we work together as a community. So I really see, especially this being a success story of not just the work that we've done at Microsoft, but the stuff that we've done together with you as a community. And with that, I'm gonna open up to questions. Anyone have any questions or yep. So the question was, is the Drupal SharePoint integration to be published as open source? And Michaela's answer was just on that. It was developed between Microsoft, two Microsoft people and three Drupal people and it's available as an open source module. It's published on Drupal.org. Any other questions? We don't bite. You may see that at some point. They're doing some integration, I think, with CodePlex on there now for projects. I'd give that a little more time. I mean, TFS is the primary source code and CI for Visual Studio, but it's opening up, right? So that Visual Studio actually sits in a different part of the company and they're starting to get some of that religion as well. So that's right. And then TFS is gonna get support into it as well. Yep. The Drupal test boxes? Yeah, that's that thing that sits over in University of Oregon, I think. What the heck's that thing called? That's right, I think we're hosts on the servers, aren't we, in OSTC, to do all those Drupal core tests, the compatibility testing. Yeah. We started working with Gabor back in the six days to try and get that all set up. So we got, I think we've got all the test harnesses and everything that Drupal uses to do its core builds. For, yeah. No, that's, I think we even, that started like over two, three years ago. Yeah, I don't know if NetCraft has numbers like that. No, but the Acquia team has actually been sending me just logs of the folks that are actually deploying onto our platform so that you guys probably know they have a web crawler that they send out and check where Drupal is deployed. And they're definitely seeing that that's increasing. I don't actually remember the specific number of websites the last time they sent me a report, but we're seeing that grow. And I, you know, my sense is that's definitely growing with every Drupal con that we've been to and it started with London. We were seeing streams of people coming in and saying, hey, you know, I used to try to do the stuff manually on Windows and I found WebPI and that was so much simpler. And so it was pretty clear that as people were, you know, stumbling on WebPI or hearing about it from us that they were starting to actually use it to deploy on Windows because it wasn't as painful as it used to be or they didn't realize that it worked at all. And so, you know, a lot of this is an education process for us still to let people know that it works on our platform. Yeah, and a lot of the other problem is getting an accurate count because a lot of, at least anecdotally than the people I'm talking to, a large number of them are doing them behind firewalls. So you can't always, it's even with the, even with Dries's crawler, it's really impossible to get an accurate count. And then another huge chunk of those are in pub sector. So a lot of education universities and federal agencies are using Drupal because then they're already using Windows. Any other questions? I'm sorry? Mikayla, I think that was you that you answered that. No, just sent me an email and we figured out. Any other questions? It's pretty much hands-on work on the demand of the community. What's your Twitter alias again, Mikayla? I should bring that back up. So either you use Mikcraft as a Twitter alias or Mikcraft at Microsoft.com. Any other questions? Yeah, actually I'm getting ready to deploy a Drupal site, actually running on a couple of instances of Ubuntu on Azure right now. Yes, I'm a user as well. Yeah, and we do have other sites that are actually deployed on Drupal. We actually acquired a site called teach.edu. I think it's now teach.org. That's also a Drupal site. And so that's part of our assets and that's something that they're moving to Azure as well. Yeah. See, and that's changing, right? So like our contributions to jQuery, I mean we basically just checked out our AJAX stuff, right? And just said that jQuery's better and it's already there and it's already being used by pretty much everybody. So let's just contribute to that. The other area where we're leveraging existing stuff that's already going on is in Node.js, right? So we have command line tools that you can use to manage sites and VMs and services in Azure. For Windows, we use PowerShell, right? That's kind of our bash, right? Well, that doesn't work very well on a Mac or it certainly doesn't work on Linux, right? So we built command line tools for Mac and Linux using Node.js because it's small, it's portable, and it's easy. So there again, we're trying to use existing technologies, open source technologies, and by the way, contributing to them as well because we want to make Node run great on Windows too, right? So you can actually use those same tools and run those on Windows if you want. You don't have to use PowerShell. But there again, we want to leverage something that's being good. Oh, and then, that's right. And then Hadoop is another thing as well, right? Where we basically chucked all our, what was that called? Power, something? I forget what that was called. Yeah, whatever, yeah. Basically, we're creating our Microsoft version of Hadoop and then just realized, you know, just why don't we just work with the Hadoop guys, right? So you can now actually go and sign up and try Hadoop on our Azure platform, right? And use the little JavaScript console and actually go and work with some big data. So yeah, just more and more examples, right? And that's, you know, it started small a few years ago and now I think it's largely kind of the way we want to do stuff. The use of GitHub is another example. I mean, that's to sort of sweeping product team, right? Right, so not only with the documentation, but all our SDKs are now open source and sitting out on GitHub for Azure, right? So our PHP SDK, our Node SDK, our Java SDK. Actually, the .NET one isn't yet, but it will be. They just gotta clean it up a little. We've actually been at the company long enough to actually personally witness a lot of these changes ourselves. I've been with the company eight years, Mark, you've been. 12 years, right? And I was an open source developer before then, right? So I used PHP back in the very early scary days and actually, so back in the four days before I joined Microsoft and then first, you know, .NET came out and I started doing that stuff as well, but it's been interesting watching the evolution for that company. Yeah, question. Yeah, I mean, it was a business, right? That was an argument, that was a statement made by a business guy, right? A C-level executive, not by an engineer, right? I don't think the engineers. Yeah, so what's happened is that people at the company that understood it finally got the message through and up into the leadership ranks in that company, right? So it was a small group of people at first, right? There's a guy named Sam Ramji who no longer with the company, right? But he spearheaded a lot of that mind shift at the company very early on a long time ago. And then others, you know, they joined the company and I think at some point you just hit a tipping point, right? Where it's like, look at this stuff, it's not gonna bite, right? So in fact, working with it makes much more sense, right? So, you know, who knows, it's never off the table, right? And there's two things that's going on, right? I mean, certainly creating interoperability and open sourcing the client bits that make that happen are one thing, but actually we're contributing to these projects as well, right? So that's another very big shift that's kind of happened over the last eight to 10 years here, so. I think your skepticism is definitely fair, right? And how far is it gonna go and, you know, is it gonna go, how far up the chain is it gonna go in that thing? That's completely fair, but time is gonna tell and what I've seen in the last, I've only been here at Microsoft for five years and the excitement that you see among developers who are actually, I mean, they're developers at Microsoft. They get to now play with, they can kind of come out of the closet, so to speak, right? And play with all the, I mean, openly play with all the open source stuff that they're playing with anyway. Like Paul and I just did the other day. Right? But there's this kind of new excitement among the developer ranks and that's just kind of bubbling up and I feel good about the direction that things are going and feel pretty good that it is gonna continue to bubble up to the top. But I understand and respect your skepticism. I don't know what that means other than just being an interesting alliteration. I don't know what you mean. Yeah, well, you know how standards bodies work, right? Okay, so no, that's never gonna happen, right? Because it's impossible to do that with a standards body, right? I mean, within standards bodies, there's a history of every company trying to do something like that, right? So we're not alone in that. It's just the way that process works, right? I mean, with an open source community itself, I mean, you know, if we tried to commit something that was just uniquely Microsoft, then Dries would say, go to hell, right? He's not gonna commit it. So I mean, within the open source communities themselves or those projects, there's a standard for, right? And a process for how you get stuff committed into it, right? So to your point, are we gonna try to extend it or whatever you say? I have faith in that the open source process works, right? And that I don't see ever that being a problem, right? And then with standards bodies, it's kind of a long, really ugly conversation. That's just the way that the whole process works, right? So just to comment on your, you know, us dog-fooding some of the things that we're contributing to open source projects. That SAIC Awards example that I gave to you, largely that work was done by our internal consulting team. So they were using it. They were using it for an external customer, but they were definitely pounding on the SQL Azure and using Drush themselves directly. And so as part of that, obviously they found certain issues that we were part of the process to help ensure it got fixed through the community, the people that we sponsored, and that we were doing things the right way and making sure those went back into the project. Yeah, and by the way, we dog-fooded every day the Hyper-V support. We contributed to Linux to actually host it in Azure itself, right? So we're actually, that's actually going into a service offering in itself, so. I think this is a very small example, but for writing a lot of our documentation now, since we're doing it in Markdown Pad, we're doing it in Markdown, we use Markdown Pad, and we started using that and found a ton of problems. We had engineers then contribute the changes to that project to make it work better. And I think that's the kind of thing that you're talking about is using those projects and then actually contributing to make them better. Really small example in Markdown Pad, but I think what you're talking about is entirely possible on a bigger scale. And just a side note, Drupal.org, we contributed some documentation to that site and I was personally the one that was funneling some of that content to Drupal.org. Took me well to figure out how that all worked and as part of that, I figured out that there were some issues too, so I actually posted those issues back to Drupal.org just so that you guys knew what I ran into as I was an end user at Drupal.org. Any other questions? By the way, in case you didn't see this, this is Mark's laptop, it is in fact a Mac, and everyone goes, aren't you gonna get in trouble? And that's not the case, actually. That's the best, it's actually the best Windows laptop I've ever had in my life. It's actually running, I'm actually running Mac. Yeah, they should be an OEM for Windows, don't you think? I think we'll ever do a Microsoft Linux. I don't know if we would have the final say on that. But there's others that do it better, let's say, right? Why bother, right? And that actually, I think to some, would probably look like an extender, an embrace, an extend, and another thing, right? So, let's just say that's probably best left to the experts, right? So, yeah. We're pretty tight with, you know, Shuttleworth is pretty happy with us right now. I don't wanna piss him off. Well, and don't forget, we now have Linux on Windows Azure. Yeah. Right, and that's actually the way we did that, is those guys are the guys that are actually offering it on there, right? So, it's actually, you know, they're distros, they maintain it, they provide service for it, right? So, and that's really the right way to do it. They're the experts, not us, so. That's why we, I think we're doing it right this time. Yeah. All right, well thank you everyone for coming to our session. Appreciate it. Thank you. The SQL Server stuff, I just left. It was? Oh, I just looked at it and assumed that was you, Brian, I'm sorry. I don't wanna talk with you. I shouldn't. Oh, it was? I did? Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. Hi. Oh, absolutely. Hey, did you talk on after this? It is, yeah, we've met before. A long time ago. But I was trying to work out. You know what was, it was at, it was at Ebay at the Dream of the Pompers. No, no, I didn't go to that one. You weren't? Could it be back when, way back, I used to be, I used to run a Linux ISP in the UK, called UK Linux, and I used to be the sponsor of the dot org village at all the Linux worlds in the UK. Did you come to any of those? I was sitting there and thinking, I've met you before. Yeah. The only other place would be, I was, I spoke at Bill's. You know what? I didn't go to Bill's last year. Oh, that's okay. So I was there, I was there. I was the only, because I was speaking, I was allowed into the speaker's lounge. But everybody else who was speaking was a Microsoft employee. So they had this huge debate, was I allowed in the speaker's room? In the speaker's lounge? Because, yeah, you were a speaker, but it's a safe room. Right, right, right, right, yeah. An NDA room, right? Yeah, so I had to sit in the corner. That's terrible. Work with Vishal, my matrix team. Oh yeah, Vishal, right, right, yeah. So he sort of like, he'd take me in and I'd sort of sit in the, you know, we'd sort of sit in the corner. Maybe I met, it might have been during that time, but I didn't go to Bill, but if you were hanging around those guys, I mean, that was my engineering team, right? It was those guys back then. So, we've definitely met. We've definitely met, I just don't remember where now. Unless it was on sort of Linux days, when I was in the UK, but... I don't know, I mean, I just spent a lot of, I don't know, did you go to FOA's? At all? Yeah, all right. What else do I go to the UK for? Well, I don't know, tons of shows. Yeah, there's not, there aren't any anymore, really. Yeah, not any more. The only one left is the bat, which is the educational, which is huge. It's like the only exhibition left that has a computer in it. Or I wonder if it was... I went to a show about four years ago, it was at Alley Pally, actually, five years ago. What the hell was it? It was like a big hack fest. They had Doctor Who on the whole freaking time, on the big screen. No, also no. Was that, no, all right. Yeah, well, we've met somewhere. We've met somewhere, but it's good to see you again, yeah? It was funny, I was in Chicago, and I saw you with Brian Prince, was giving you the Azure presentation. Yeah, yeah. And he was like, you've got to be about the different Linux distros and the Stove and Sousa and then he says, it's sentos, it's sentos, you know, I never know which to call it. And sentos was founded in the same office that I worked at. Oh, serious? So there were three guys in the office. Really? Really? The self was founded during that. My partner founded sentos. The other guy we left actually was a piece. So not surprisingly, the piece had just died. Oh man. Yeah, I was thinking that as well. I'm going to go grab a cigarette before I set up. Yeah, I'll go with you. I'll go with you. But yeah, yeah, I was thinking that.