 This is the SF Productions podcast network When a dollar went a long way and so did 24 hours The 60s in the 70s drawing place of the lost generation We who grew up in this era had no real heroes our role models came from the imaginations of others Our meager lives were formed by and revolved around weekly installments of our favorite TV programs Welcome to a place that your parents didn't understand A place that exists somewhere between the forefront of Recollectible memory and the edge of everyday thought Welcome to the vast wasteland Welcome home. Good evening and welcome to another exciting episode of vast wasteland We're here with Wilbert Neal and Marty Wiley. I'm Mark Schmidbauer And we're here to talk about 60s and 70s television that a kind of age when I don't know When we grew up when we when we grew up there's that's probably the best way to say it easy And today we're gonna talk about probably one of certainly for 60s television And possibly for all television one of the biggest shows a phenomena if not a rating success The original Star Trek series now we want to say first off. This is not gonna be about Next generation although we may mention it or or the movies. This is 60s and 70s television So we're only gonna cover the original series and of course the animated series Now Star Trek was on from 66 69 the 780 episodes Created by Jean Roddenberry who called it the wagon train to the stars as a show He thought when it was a central cast the same cast every week and they'd go out and fix things and that's basically what the show was and Was on for three seasons mostly due to a huge letter campaign that went on at the end of the second season Unheard of the industry before But it finally was canceled in 69 and there was the animated series starring the original cast doing all the roles and James Duhan and And Major Major Barry Roddenberry basically doing all the other voices other than the main cast members and Then after a failed attempt at a new series in the mid 70s It never really got off the ground a paramount finally we saw Star Trek the motion picture Which wasn't that big a success. Well, it made a huge amount of money, but Trek fans still consider it And of course there were the other four movies and of course now we have Star Trek the next generation and in addition to the huge amount of merchandising and The conventions and the Trekkies there's At least 60 novels out there now So it's certainly something worth that's going to be around for well Well, well into the 21st century. I'd say Anyways, at least that's the hope right So that's what we're gonna talk about today, and I'll turn the podium over to Wilbert with his first point for the evening well, let's see as far as the Show goes I like the the way they always seem to change uniforms through the Through the series like the first episode of the first um, well, we can talk about the first episode really the the cage episode where You didn't really have Captain Kirkhead commander pike. Yeah, all the other people. They had the lovely the lovely turtleneck uniforms Which which you saw a little bit you saw a little bit back and like where no man has gone before Yeah, well that was like but which pretty much yeah was the second pilot for the show Yeah, we'll see originally. I mean when the the command color that the yellow was supposed to come out green That was the big thing and they saw it on They saw it on their on dailies or whatever and I guess the the the story is that The guys who actually developed the film for the studio thought it was supposed to be yellow So they went in and they screwed around with the developing to make it come out yellow And so they said well, I guess we'll have to make the costumes yellow now because we have this one episode We don't want to screw up the continuity and then at the same time. I think that messed with um, Spock's facial color, right? Right, which just made him interesting all around too Right truck was not a big Not for its time it wasn't you know in today's dollars or you know Compared to just a general even a sitcom today. It's doesn't they don't they don't spend that much money, but For its time they spent a good deal probably a lot more money than paramount wanted to Which is probably one of the reasons they decided to cancel it The ratings are and we're spending a lot of money on it and we're not very happy Oh boy That's a lot of fun, and let's see I had a question just generally about You know considering the third the 23rd century and all this I mean I always always wondered who would join Secure who would join Starfleet or security really I mean either either way I mean you've got you've got an organization that at peacetime loses a lot of people a lot of people die in the show I mean in the first three seasons over 90 crewmen were killed most of them were redshirted security guys and Spendables According according to one of the novels The enterprise is like the first Starship that made it back And like after its first mission. That's what they're saying. It's like that. It's just like There was That they would either get blown up or they'd find some civilization that would take them hostage or or it would be this Utopian civilization where they say well, we just don't feel like leaving so So I always wondered you know, it's like what what type of thing would would Starfleet use To like recruit people to get in to an or to an organization where it's like, you know, they free travel Yeah, but you know, I mean, I mean, you know if you figure one ship 90 people got killed in three years You know you figure all the Starship Well, they don't they didn't know that though see they're back on earth when at the beginning of the five-year mission You're looking at come on come with us. See the stars see billions and billions of planets out here Meet new and new they didn't even know about new well Did they know? Yes, because it's fun. They knew about Vulcan. That's true. Yeah, they were there were races already Well, they know about the Vulcans, right, but they didn't know really about very many others At least not when they first started off, right? So It's I guess the look at the possible we could we've already met one new kind of see what else we can do kind of being out Here there could be other aliens out there, but I thought us to explore But I gotta believe there's like, you know investigative reporters in the 23rd century, you know They're like finding out about this and saying what's the deal with this and they go to the chief of Starfleet and he says no comment But you know, I and I the way I figured is just like the 23rd century must be incredibly boring for most people Or although see of trend quality. Yeah, I mean, we know this You know, it's just like Most of the time you see when you see rare glimpses of the civilians It's just like oh my what a boring existence these guys They go to a cocktail party or they go to something and it's always like yikes. What a boring lifestyle So that's as far as I think for you. That's the only reason that people join Starfleet. What is the condition of earth at this time? It's like a utopia that you want to leave. No, it's like a utopia. Well, what is it? This is the sun, you know heaven is a place where nothing ever happens. Yeah, well, that's true Well, so there were there was nothing else. I guess really to explore on earth So the stars were about like they are now the the next The great frontier the vital front Yeah, which thanks to find out well that would that that brings up another question I was wondering why is Kirk like the only sane and or competent captain in Starfleet? Every other captain we ever see is like nuts or he's The question I have is why is Kirk a captain? Ah, okay. Why is it what makes him? Is that get up and go kind of guy has no morals, but he has Every every time he hits a new planet. It's like yeah, let's go check out the babes and see well But that's probably you know, I would think Starfleet would kind of know we're kind of on the ship kind of say, you know Say why don't you go do that? You know? Get out there and fraternize The prime directive you can't interfere Well Can't interfere with their culture and civilization what you can go out with the women Okay, like I'm not a tracky But my impression of captain Kirk is going from planet to planet like bar hopping Yeah, yeah, because it's you know, it's again, you know, like the rest of the 23rd century Like I said is very boring. So it's like Kirk Bopping into town. Ooh a Starfleet guy, you know, it's like this is I mean this would yeah, this would be like, you know I'm a I don't know Astronaut or a or a race car driver or something. This is the only really risky profession left So so women are just like all over them Well, it's not such a risk because he always sends the guys down in the red shirts first to get blown up They don't know that though. I don't know that though. You know, maybe I've got a heavy cruiser But you see all these other guys that are just like, you know, they're nuts, you know, it's just like what Tracy captain Tracy He was nuts I'm trying to think of some other examples decker decker Really, that's real nuts and a major time overacting. I think the only person ever on the show overacted more than Shatner did Overacted Oh overacted Just like everything was just the most the most everything he said was always like the most important thing ever said in the history Yeah, it's over here. Oh, what do we do? Anyways, you know, I just and I always wondered, you know McCoy has that little Medical bag he goes down on the planets and it probably hold like four or five different things for his hypo And yet he always has the right drug. I want to know what the deal is he has like that universal anti-toxin He throws in case Kirk gets bit by a snake or something or I'm got to You know, he has like the triox compound and that's That's about all you ever see in there But yeah, and yet it's like, oh, I just happen to have this in my bag and put that in it put that And it's like why did he go to split? Why did he go into space anyway? Because all he did was complain. Oh, I'd rather be back on earth I'd rather be a country veterinarian The thing they say in the in like novels and stuff is he was divorced and he had a bad marriage That's the only job that probably paid enough to cover that alimony Right and these guys, you know Just didn't make a lot being a regular doctor. Do startling people like pay taxes or I always wonder how much money they made in the 23rd century. Are there really taxes? Well, I think the the thing to consider there is, you know, it's like they must have some sort of credit system, you know Like uh, like a voucher Yeah Yeah, like an id card, you know Because they must have like some sort of card with like their retina scan and their current credit limit And vice print and all that stuff, you know, but I figure like in the 23rd century, you know like in columbus, ohio in the 23rd century Though 315 will still not be fixed yet. So So so we'll still need to have taxes for stuff like that, you know Well anyways, um Oh I was just going to say that by then it'll probably be like an airway system So there'll probably be other problems, right? Yeah, but they're gonna need some sort of taxes Then no one here will still know how to drive, right? Then it'll be worse because you'll be flying and different levels. There'll be like 3d accidents. I'm not gonna be here Well, it'll be interesting to find out. Okay. Anyways, um These the 70s series that that never occurred Okay, just to give you an idea that what basically happened was paramount like, um Debated for years whether they were gonna do another one that went on and on and on They were gonna do a series. No, they're gonna do a tv movie. No, they're gonna do a motion picture And it went back and forth among this and I think I saw a reference like I think in 73 That they were talking about it. I mean that was like during the animated series that they were talking about doing another live action thing And finally basically when star wars came out Paramount said now we're ready to do it, you know now that everybody else is doing science fiction We'll do this and so they're gonna do a series and it's Basically a lot of the stuff that you see in the next generation Some of the stuff has kind of they kind of moved those concepts over And the but the only major changes was that spock wasn't there because neymour didn't want to do it at that point They weren't going to pay them enough money. So they had this other vulcan named zon But other than that it's basically the cast of the first movie Like decker and ailia and all that So I mean at based at that time. Do you think that 70 series would have worked as well as the motion pictures now? The other reason they probably didn't do it is they did have the animation going and animation is a lot cheaper Well, I mean this is like by 77 Well that was running in reruns then right Right. Well, I mean they were probably thinking well, you know, this will keep these will keep the trekkies happy for a while Yeah, but I mean they were they were right on the verge of doing I mean they had sets built and Costumes and all this and they're like, you know, it's like they're just about ready to film and it's like, uh No, I'm not gonna do it Which which is by the way why why the first movie costs so much money because it Include the cost of that series that was never done. Uh-huh So all the cost of those sets and costumes that were all thrown out and never used Were all included in the cost of the first movie. But anyways, and the suites and everything too, right? Okay Well, it could have worked. I mean, um, would have worked as well as the movies did um Well, we can look at the things that Well, that would take us off this subject. We really want to cover that it would have worked The trekkies would have liked it to died in the wool fans would have wanted I don't think it would have attracted a lot of new people right because they'd be thinking of The old sets right old trek the the the 60s show had very bland colors and they and um people would still think of that And by of course by the 70s we had all the neat The effects started coming in right by the birth of the effects there and there It's it's the big reason why I can't watch the old trek unless the story is very good Because there's no effects basically. Yeah. I'm an effects spoiled person And um, yeah after you see star wars and galactica and buck rogers and all the other stuff from the 70s It was just like, you know, it's like oh, and we have this here We have this spaceship flying through space and it shoots in another one and all this and when you go back to the old show And it's like well, we've uh, we've got this model suspended by a string and uh, and it's going by this big Ball that we've painted to look like a planet. Uh They would have had to really upgrade their um effects for the 70s since 1999 had its it's um Popularity and it was right around I guess just before that time. Yeah, that's true So it it could possibly have worked it could have worked but um Would with the trek with the whole trek thing the phenomenon be going as strong now today Well, they would have had something else to focus on it would have it. Yeah, it's it's debatable whether it would have worked Well, you'll never know right. We'll never know so There's a lot of people would probably be debating about that like they're debating about Classics versus next generation Yeah, well, I don't know. I just wanted to get an opinion on it. Um, I wanted to we didn't charge you That's right. Well, thank you very much. Um Had a question. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. I was gonna well if you got a Let's do your okay. I was gonna say were there any favorite, uh, Favorite episodes that you might have had favorite characters favorite situations things like that mud Okay, well, we'll see a lot of fun I I had made a list this afternoon of I went through all my books and decided Who my favorite guest stars were for male and female? Okay, okay And I wanted to get I wanted to get yours before I where I gave mine Okay, my favorite. Let's see. I've got like four of each So you can pick more than one Well now, I I don't know about um, just guest stars. I mean let's let's let's go Let's go male guest stars and female guest stars. Okay, not Yeah Just guest stars. I was gonna say um, what's far as characters go now spot He's probably definitely a favorite character right right as far as that goes uhura Like I have to admit I looked at uhura a lot Well, who couldn't because look at the uniforms that the women had to wear No, it's a basic cheerleader outfit Because it's even got the little matching bottoms, right, you know and the go-go boots Right, they wore go-go boots in the 23rd century. That's a it's like you're gonna beam down to a planet and go-go boots Yeah Good to go I will say they've got them dressed a lot nicer for next generation. Yeah, okay. Well, they've learned over the years Come on everybody. They definitely learned. Well, anyway, but they had to sell it to the network in the 60s. You know, it's like, uh TNA. Yeah But um, as far as guest stars. Well, uh, one of my favorite actresses. Uh, well, you want to do male then female? Okay, okay male, um Well actors now we can Roger C. Carmel. I was hearing my definitely a favor. I have him um Mark Leonard. Yep. He's uh, the the triple threat. He has played every single major alien Yeah, he has represented every single major alien race on the show Of the three major, of course, his big one was of course serics box father, but correct, correct um Barry Atwater now not a lot of people don't know about very he played Suric the oh Yeah, of the Logical Vulcans in the one episode where they had to go back and was them and uh Abraham Lincoln and they were up against the four worst Criminals of the universe in time and all Now he Barry Atwater went on to play. Um Yano scores any in the night stalker. He was the vampire in the night stalkers. That's that's why I remember him um, and then let's see Mm-hmm. Although he overacted I did like William Wyndham As Commodore Decker The big the cornucopia breath The huge funnel of death Okay, well the only the only one I would I would did you have any well mud was my favorite He's also the one that carried over into the animated Yeah, he did he he was in one because there was another triple deal. Well, yeah, okay now mud He was in he was in two of the regular series and he was in one animated one. Mm-hmm But it wasn't one about the triples. That's serenal Jones. It was in the triples. That's right. That's right. Go ahead. Go ahead Well mud's just the one that okay, you know, he made the biggest impression on me, right? He was fun He was fun. He was he was a neat character. It was fun to see him get what he deserved, right You know, you felt you could feel sorry for him, but at the same time you were like, yeah, he got it Power cord phantom He's a fun guy. Well, the only two I picked other than that were William Campbell Trelaine and or coloth. Yeah. Yeah. Trelaine was the better of the two Oh And um and john colicus Poor later, of course to be what's his name on baltor on galactica was uh, clen Howard in one Yes, he was he was the kid with the great big head, right? Laylock. Baylock. Yeah with the trunnia The trunnia I'll stay with this little Man knows how to party. Okay. Well, that's male now now on to female female. Well, I think it's funny Who's been on jones collins was on there. That's what that's one of my picks. That's a funny one That's one of my picks is edith keeler and of course jones collins has been on practically every show from the 1950s My goodness. He was busy. Well, then you can look back at um, William shatner and litter in the morning All the different shows that they were on. Well, they did all the 50s shows Yeah, I'm also in a sheet, right He's been around a long time, but then um, okay, as far as guess female gets well I can go back to another one of my favorite actresses, uh, Julie new bar who had a baby on star trek Yeah, she's been on every show in the 60s there Her and McCoy's baby. Let's see how our child everybody was looking. Hey, McCoy. We don't know about this. What's going on? That was fun Let's see now Are there any other really favorite female Well Not the names the not what not with names that stand out there and like characters the uh, the one girl in the game There's a triscale in there was Kirk's um Chosen one. Oh, yeah Shawna, all right. Okay, and she she kind of stood out in my mind. Well, yeah, but not not for her acting abilities only So Well, but I well here's the ones I picked out. I picked out kim darby as mary So I thought she did a pretty good job Uh, I had to pick jane Wyatt as amanda spock's mother. Okay And um And another dual role person diana molder as as the two doctors dr. Ann mohall and dr. Miranda jones Okay And maranda jones of the two was because I was in um, is there in truth? No beauty That's the uh, to me the trash can the uh, what's it? The guy what's his name the um Oh shoot Live in the thing that if you looked at him you would go crazy. You're crazy. Yeah, it was so madoosan. He was a madoosan. That's it That's exactly it was so ugly or whatever. Oh, hey, I forgot about one that she's not really one really considered a guest star but then she went on she has gone on um You made your bed right and bury yourself She was number one in the cage episode and then she went on to be Nurse chapel and now she's gone out while she nurse chapel became whatever She wasn't a nurse anymore in the doctor in the movie. She became a doctor and now she's playing shroy's mother Yes, the new one. So she's she's just been in there, of course. Well, it doesn't hurt being the wife of the producer, you know I want my wife to be in it Well, we really can't say no, so um, are you making a new series? Can I be in it? Oh, okay, honey You do want dinner tonight? So so I don't know um Well, let's see there were other there was um, I just saw one notice one today that I hadn't noticed before the guy who played um In dagger dagger of the mind I think The not uh, not james gregory, you know the episode with james gregory where they sit in the chair and They sit in the chair and it drops all the thoughts out of their mind and all that All right The other guy the guy that they they beamed up to the ship It was like his assistant who was nuts and that was the the first time they ever saw him Used a mind melt on the show. Okay is the same actor who played captain tracy And another in a later episode Oh Okay, and I didn't even notice that because I was reading my I was reading my compendium in order to talk about the show today and I said That's the same guy. Well, that just goes to show that they always they Well, there were more than just the ones that we knew about that man used over and over again Oh, yeah, which is quite interesting. Well, yeah, well go ahead. Do you have any other points? I was gonna other um Frank gorschen I think made an interesting. Oh, there we go. Let this be your last battlefield. Yeah That was that wasn't interesting. Well, I think what star trek did I mean, we'd had science fiction shows Before star trek star trek made space respectable to go into and not silly right And not silly with where it's what's followed since lost in space Lost in space was fun But it was silly Right that was that was actually yeah during almost yeah, but it was you know since then we've gotten More and more space shows Right that are you know serious But human right Right. Yeah, that was that was the real difference of the show But between everything else that had really come out. I mean it had been Since zone really twilight zone. There was the last thing that went on Before trek that was serious and look you just hear the name twilight zone And I think a lot of people think too freaky for me I think star trek made science fiction to where people would sit down and watch you know every day folks Watch it and then real I'm watching science fiction Yeah, because it really they really could have made it, you know on a battleship You know in world war two just changing devices and it would have been the same story Which is kind of what gene wanted to do. We wanted to make it. Um, respectively wanted to Teach lessons. Mm-hmm while people were being entertained. Yes, that was one of his main, um thrusts of doing the show Well, anyway We think we're we're about done. So we're we're getting our signal from our ramp and floor director. So I think that'll let about do it for another exciting episode of Vast wasteland next time It's going to be our special holiday show We're going to talk about all the various holiday the christmas shows and all the animated stuff and all of the variety shows and stuff that We've seen all through All through the 60s and 70s and they just don't make them like that. They don't well, but we'll talk about it next time. So For all of us at Vast wasteland, we'll see you next time