 questions. We're going to talk about how we need to renovate the town hall. Obviously coming in, maybe it was very obvious the guys had snow. We're going to talk about the current conditions, which you can see here, some pictures representing some of the current conditions. And this is Ernie Parrish who came in that door and fell through the floor and then we paired it. Then we're going to talk about some of the things we've already done. So you can see the roof that the loader took to the steeple before and after. And then we're going to present the next steps and what we are asking for the loader on town week today. We'll give it to him later. So David Sheets, he's going to, so we've called this phase one. Now we're moving into phase two. And so phase one was a lot of studies, which Scott's going to talk about. But now we're really getting Dr. Brickson mortar and hammer to be making the building usable. And so David's going to talk about why we need to run the phase two of the renovation. So for the past five, six, even years, the Calis Historic Preservation Commission has been working on this project year by year with the help of consultants that we have access to federal funding each year through a grant program at the division for historic preservation. And those federal funds come to Calis by virtue of it being a certified local government. And that program has given us access to help that each year has gotten us to a certain point. And most recently, some of you may perhaps remember the year two years ago, I believe, when we put together a Calis task force on the town hall and we drew people from throughout the community to help us figure out the dilemma at that point and potential new uses for the hall, as well as the current uses for the hall. And it was through that process that we came up with quite a list that we're going to make known through this period, all kinds of things. And they also helped us determine was this in a flood plain. And for the next year, we hired a consultant to help us with that question. And the happy result of that was that we found out that only this corner of the town hall was actually in a flood plain. And that by resizing the culverts here and here, we could avoid floods for the next millennium. Roughly. And once we were over that little problem, we then started talking very practically about this building and its new uses. And by that time, the Blue Barn had come to the end of its useful career as a theater. And thespians from Maple Corner started getting interested in this in this property. Jamie's landscape group suddenly saw opportunities on this parcel of land for new uses. And yes, meanwhile, over in the town office, we have a bit of a crisis with a lack of office space in the comparatively new town office. But due to the shifting of office functions over there, we're now concentrating on that literally as an office space. And all of the many meetings that have increasingly been taking place at the town office, the vision for this building now is that many of those meetings should take place here. And we can devote more of the square footage in the town office to that kind of purpose. So little by little, each year, we've come to recognize the value of this building and the need to renovate it and make it useful throughout the year. Because as many of you know, when it comes to heat in this building, you're looking at one of the two stoves upstairs and downstairs that have meant that this pretty much has always been a building in recent years that has been used only seasonally and in many of those years, only for town meeting. And very few other meetings take place here, especially in the dead of winter. So with that in mind, we have a team of the select board recently appointed a committee. We are all members of that committee. And there are several other members as well. And I'll turn it over to Donna and John McCulloch, who is our architect for a more complete examination of what the proposal is. So next, number two on our list of four is to talk about the building's condition now. And it's Scott and John. Photos over there. About four years ago, I actually was in the building when a former select board member came through that door and fell through the floor. And this is a photograph of it. And that made us, me, I think I'm the only one who's done this, going about the entrance to the crawl space, which is back in there and do the, but it was awful. There's just, there's about this much room in the crawl space. That, I went under there and discovered that the beams supporting this building, particularly in that corner, are just gone. There's, it's like sponges. You could, they're eight, pine eight by eights that were put there. When would you guess, when the building was built? Well, I did that before the basement. Yeah. This, this, for years, this has been called the basement, but we're really now. And we believe that originally the church was just what you see upstairs. And that was sitting on a conventional block foundation from the 1860s version. Then they decided they needed no more room. So instead of, so they did that by raising the building and creating this space. But when they did that, they didn't take a lot of care about the foundation or the the support rooms. And over the years, those, particularly because of moisture in that corner, they, the foundation, the eight by eights that hold, that hold up the perimeter of the building have basically fallen apart. And that's something that the town really has to address no matter what, no matter what happens. We really need to get that replacement done. So that's really the, the, in my mind, the number one reason for doing this big project that we're asking the town to pay help, to vote a vote in favor of taking out a loan that will allow us to do this repair because it's falling apart over there. Um, what else are we supposed to talk about? I guess that's it, the deterioration. And it's, we, we, this is a picture of Ernie putting in some props so that he can still walk over there and it's not, not really dangerous anymore. But the fundamental condition of the, the deteriorating beams continues to exist. And the next part is from, is Donna and Scott talking about commitments already made and projects already completed. So we've been working on this, I'm just going ahead. How's that, how much money we've spent already? In, in 2011, the select board asked the historic renovation commission to guide, help the select board decide what to do about the town hall because we knew that definitely needed work at that point. And that's when the select board started getting the grants that David referred to that, that were, that we were eligible for. In 2011, we did the logical fund, first fundamental thing, which was hire an architectural firm and an engineering firm to come in and do a thorough assessment of where we were at with building what, what its needs were for preservation. That was, that report is, was published in 2012. And it, it's called the Arnold Skaggis Report and it's available on the town website and there's a copy back in there. And that's the basic document that, that the historic preservation commission and the select board have worked from in this long, long process of getting it, of doing the restoration. One of the first recommendations in that report was that we needed a new roof. So in 2013, the town meeting in 2013, the town voted $25,000 to put on a, to pay for putting on a new roof. Things in the construction trains happened slowly, so the roof wasn't actually finished until spring of 2014. Then the next grant after the, the assessment grant was for repairing, repairing the existing monumental windows upstairs. Those beautiful, beautiful windows, I hope everybody gets a chance to get a look at them. They were, they were in pre sorry shape and we were really lucky to get a, somebody who's been trained and experienced in that kind of historical restoration. So then we had the new windows. After that, we realized that we're going to, that we were going to need the, the participation of the whole town. So we hired a consultant to, she, she helped us set up a town hall task force. Maybe some of the people here were, were on that group, certainly heard some of things about the reports of it. That gave us an idea of the kind of support within the town for restoring the town hall. It's a big, it's a big commitment. One of the results of that report were that about 70% of the residents of the town that answered the questionnaire see the town hall as a vital important resource for the town hall. And so that, and that report made a number of recommendations for next steps. We knew all the, we knew all the things that needed to be done and the report helped us look at them, you know, put them in an order. One of the first things that the town hall task force recommended was that we address the problem of knowing whether or not this building is in a flood plain. FEMA that determines whether or not a building is in the flood plain originally had this building in the flood plain. Then about four years ago, when was there, the next one that came out all about that. Then they took it out of the flood plain. But then any engineer who came and looked here would look at it and say, of course we're in a flood plain. So we hired one of the engineering firms that had a lot to do with restoring water very after the, the big flood there. And they spent considerable time with surveyors getting, getting a picture of where exactly where the building was and used to be a flood. And then once some of our alternatives were, the first, the alternative they recommended first was that if we could replace this culvert, which is now a 12 foot wide culvert, the one that's the actual width of the peak in Brook, which is 24 feet, that the next time there's a big water event the, the water will continue down the, the Brook instead of backing out of this culvert and coming around and encompassing the, the whole town hall, which happened. This is the high water mark from the 1984 flood, this, this dowel. In 1984 there was a big, from the downs, downing forth under storm. This culvert got blocked up and the water came up and flooded the building. So we wanted to be sure that when we invest a bunch of money in a new foundation and essentially repair the building that it will, that it won't get flooded again. And that report gave us pretty good confidence that if we do some of the things John and I talked about before that, that we're not in a flood plain. After the grant that we applied for after that was the one that we're using this year to help with fundraising and general awareness of the state of the town hall, which is what we're right in the middle of. Sorry, I have to go over what I was going to say. I don't know. Oh, I think that's way too much. Okay, so, and so the studies are available on the website. There are copies back there from all look at it while you're here. And then on the kind of purple sheet that I handed out there listed under things one here is what we've already accomplished. And so the projects that Scott talked about came to $98,386. So that's the amount of money since 2013 that's been invested in this building. And $53,865 came from agreements. And the rest of it came from taxpayers. So that includes the roof, which is about $25,000 and about $18,000 of matching funds for the grants and for other expenses that went along with those grant projects. So here's how we got to where we are now. We realized, or the Historic Preservation Commission realized that in order to actually do some construction renovation, they needed to hire an architect to do plans so that we could get estimates. And so they sent out an RFP and they got three bids back. And the bids were for $42,000, $65,000. And I think the last one was $68,000. So that's when Historic Preservation Commission realized the town can afford to have just an architect and still be so not had a building we could use. And so they came up with this idea of exploring locally based ways to move toward restoration, renovation, and actual use of the building and went to the select board for their support. And that's where we are today. And we believe we can save money by taking advantage of local talent, hiring local people, avoiding consultant fees and markups using the town office staff, road crew employees and equipment. And so we've done a lot of estimating. I have a list of expenses there which I can hand out with the support of local contractors, electricians, plumbers who helped us with pricing estimates, and then town hall committee members who use their personal contacts to get information. But we would not be here today if it wasn't for John McCullough, our architect who will take over the next $68,000. So when I got involved, the reports have been done. The architects Arnold and Skangas have prepared a report. Arnold and Skangas report that made specific recommendations. One is to start out with what we've recognized is that lift is not compliant. That 88 restroom is not compliant. The codes have drawn up around this building and the things that were compliant with that thing. So I've always been terrifying to use. So Arnold and Skangas recommended that the proposition, which has no historic value, be reconstructed to accommodate the lift of reconfiguring the stairs. And if we're going to use this year around, we're looking at a small mechanical room, something for boiler circulators and such. So that goes into this new design of your addition. And so those are recommendations from Arnold and Skangas. The Malone-McBroom hydrological study, they showed a worst case for the clogged culvert. They said what the base flood elevation would be for that. Their recommendation was that we lift the building some incredible three or four feet above that. The state saw the Malone-McBroom report and they said use the high number, the clogged culvert number to establish a base flood elevation. And so I'm going to show you a plan that has the finished floor a foot above the highest BFB that was established in the report. So those are the recommendations from those two reports. The third report came from the Calis Town Hall Task Force where they were looking at uses. Scott's already talked about or David's already talked about the need for all our different committees which increase in number. We've got a conservation committee, planning commission, select board, cemetery commission. I mean it goes on and on. The town office is used almost every night for one meeting or another. And at the same time the listers have to do what the zoning administrator has to do with the clerk and the assistant and the auditor that goes on and on. They need that space for their own stuff so all the meetings have to find a place to happen. So the town hall task force said we should use this for town meetings but also community uses, tag sales, wedding receptions, whatever we could use it for. And then like David said the theater was looking for a place. So if we develop the upstairs space so as so flexible as possible we can have larger town meetings if there's a special ballot item that attracts a big crowd. Otherwise this place will be open for business. The downstairs year round it'll be heated and well insulated and use year round. So those are the basic components that I work with and I'll show you what came out of that. It looks real quick and then we'll gather around and look at it later. Here's the building on site as it is. The recommendation from Malone McBride is that we lift the building up to the foot and that's what this is. Building up a foot. More than that though some of the storage requirements here are such that we looked at at any place we could grab storage and it occurred to me, us the town hall group, that if we made the front wall of the building we made a full height concrete wall underneath the existing landing up there and then stepped it to the sides that we could actually use the space under the landing for storage and also bring the grate up so we don't have the stairs fanning that canyon anymore. And it also other things with grating which allows vehicles if we did have like a wedding reception or something a vehicle could actually pull up in front without driving into a ditch. And this model also shows the parking lots raised 12 inches that gets the actual parking lot above the state recommended be at the base flood elevation. Everything's all works a whole lot better if we get the 22 foot culvert. Right now the report says that if there is a clog in the culvert we can expect water to flow down the road to the low spot and flow around both sides of the building. But the building is actually out of what should flood. The building should be protected from flood even in that worst case according to the report. So that's the site model for the inside for the interior space the theater group what they've asked for and you can see all this in the site plan and I've got a floor plan and elevations. The theater group was already constructed a performance platform but they what they still intend to construct is a wall that will be 10 feet high up this floor that would go around and it would be sort of a backstage area that they could access the stage so they were thinking of it in terms of theatrical productions. At this end at the end to the toward the road this model is probably hard to see in the model it's not represented accurately but the the box pews will be taken out and and there'll be one open space there'll be chairs they won't be folding chairs they'll be stacking chairs so they'll have cushion seats and backs and they stack onto little platforms with wheels and those in turn can be parked in these storage places so that if there was a dance or an art exhibit with art on folding partitions or even whatever the space can be wide open for a concert dance or for theatrical production the chairs distributed around the building. The above these these are now higher than they have to be to get under their 80 inches up into the ceiling of the inside. Up above what the theater people want is a place to access by a metal ladder to get up here to run lights to shine on the stage. So we've got these two perches and that uh that's pretty much the upstairs space is for for any kind of meeting. The downstairs space is reconfigured so that now we've got a code compliant bathroom to be built on that sort of right where that wooden cabinet is um in that corner would be a 988 compliant bathroom the kitchen would be reconfigured so there's still be room to work to heat food and such and the serving is still here it's just as long as it is now um but nobody prepares meals so we don't we don't need as much kitchen space as we're not using well right now um and then the rest of the space I didn't didn't have modeled in the stairs yet but this is the stairway um you go up from the the lower level you go up a circle around up here's the lift here's the mechanical room this is storage we've got a file cabinet a specific recommendation to require two file cabinets for the Ramon with a callus historic society plus on the drawing you'll see on this wall there'll be there'll be shelves and built-ins for for a display of some of their stuff and also cabinets to hold some of their other historical things. That's pretty much it everything out if you have any questions come up and look and come stare at the model it's uh pretty clear but those are the uh those are the components in the whole building um the downstairs will be wired in such a way that if we end up having to put permanent let's say the listers for example had to set a permanent residency here and build all the work here the wiring will allow us to put on temporary partitions or something so uh that'll probably mean floor outlets and but thank goodness if a wi-fi won't keep our running capital over the place or something um that's all I have any questions so let me guess you all want to know the cost so this is all leading up Judy's going to pass out our estimated cost and income projections but this is all leading up to asking the voters at town meeting for a loan for 200,000 dollars that would be paid back over five years so each year would be about 47,000 dollars principal interest and then you go over the sheet Judy's so this is phase these numbers are phase one phase two so that is not included like painting the outside of the building um oh instantly I mean level is it in here um where is phase one let's see well phase one is like I just want to go right though so you need phase two yeah so this is so what is not included in phase two is like painting the outside of the building the standing floors um painting the inside um so our estimated cost at this point is $340,824 and then if you look down the income you'll see what we expect to get the income from that so you see this grants and then we already have $65,000 on hand if you remember usually at town meeting we asked for money to go into the reserve funds we have that money uh blue bar players have done a couple concerts here and we have proceeds from that and then down at the bottom I've listed how we plan to use the town road to interpret my questions for any of us and then if you want to come up and talk specifically with John about I think in terms of the construction if I could just simplify this um this summer we would be lifting the building up putting in a new foundation moving the building aside during that process and in moving the building this downstairs area basically gets kind of plundered and so moving it back onto the foundation then the reconstruction of the interior of this space would commence and be finished sometime in the fall um is that correct yeah all new construction then on this level this has demolished the finishes are demolished the the timbers and you know structure is retained but the most of this is uh is gone right the uh the walls are stripped of everything so the installation can be applied the ceiling as well because we're going to get a uh thermal envelope between here and the upstairs space right now there's no plan to heat or insulate the upstairs but use this as a place that can be available all winter long um a note uh I hadn't really rehearsed this presentation the construction is going to be a slab slab inside a frost wall slab would be well insulated and be a radiant slab so that's the intended heating system for this that's one reason we only have to lift the building up as high as we as we are because we don't have a crawl space to worry about flooding out anymore Denise do you want to say something on behalf of the select board yeah I mean the select board's been filing this for years and there's been a ton ton ton of volunteer time and effort and the select board and you know originally we had a lot of the same questions um that you folks probably have but in the end the select board strongly supports this proposal and we put it on the morning so we hope you'll spread the word that this is a really reasonable price for this project um you know with all of the idea of hoping to employ local folks as much as possible while following the rules for regulations for RFPs this is a really good example of a project that can be done with all of the talent that we already have surrounding us so we hope you'll spread the word and vote in favor of the loan yes mayor will you be able to or is there a plan um to salvage and reuse things like the floor and oh yeah oh yeah all your co-votes like the things that are charming the windows the columns the floor all remain the doors there are a couple of historic doors all remain the as you can see you know there is already sheet rock pretty much on many of the walls and even the ceiling my hope would be that these columns will not look quite so um submerged in sheet rock as they currently look so actually the goal would be for this to look more historic than it actually does currently and I also want to say that um eventually we want to be able to rent this building and there are many different models for renting the building I believe in Plainfield they have some of the rents their town hall and I think that person gets a percentage of the rental fee so you know she's encouraged to to rent it um preservation trust of Vermont also has different models that they will share with us you mean right for the community especially for the community for I mean there's a real desperate need for meeting space town office you know just needs to be used for the staffing and I know even during the day in the town office it's used for meetings all the time and it's it's quite busy and I think Maple Corner Community Center is a really good example I mean we tried to schedule a meeting there for this presentation I had a really hard time finding a night and it used to be you know it's never used in the winter um but we're doing this with your taxpayer money and nobody has taken clothes off where are we paying off the town office what do we pay off that office have we paid off oh no we haven't and no we haven't and if I had a town report here I could tell you what we're gonna pay well related to what other debt do we have not not to get the highway stuff yeah um all the loans are in the town report which oh this is all but does that work yeah I think we have eight more years on the town I can remember the third one I'm having trouble with the fourth one now you're talking about the third car filler no that's no I won't go there so I don't know what I mean uh we have a large apartment bond right town on this bar should do it um we've got a couple of trucks yeah this is about yeah as far as yes it's a fire station we don't have all of it no this should have a fire station and the town office is done in 2024 fire station 2030 um I guess that relate is this sort of eligible for these for municipal bond borrowers that we have to go we look we look at that um we'd be paying more money over the long run really yeah okay and see this way that you're committed to the 10 years 10 it's you can't you can't pay it on early right you can't pay it on early which doesn't make any sense and then the fourth one was I don't see vhcv on here have they been approached and not giving you a good read or they're involved in everything's in town I mean they could be I mean they're not our our plan uh once the 200,000 is acquired for the loan is to augment that with every possible grant we can get um we're restricted on an annual basis to state grants so our plan currently is to go after an historic preservation grant this year that deadline is in the fall so we would do that probably to take the expense of rehabbing the windows downstairs we've already done the windows upstairs but we have not done the historic windows downstairs so that's that's our plan for that the big one is that we're applying for a community block grant from the state to take care of all the ADA so the addition the lift the handicapped accessible restrooms all of that gets funded by that community block grant we have Lisa Ryan back again as a consultant the CLG grant is paying for her to help us with that grant she used to administer that program and she knows the ins and outs of that program so she's going to be helping us get that grant in uh in September so that's a September deadline so uh you know the following year um for phase three um I expect we'll go for a cultural facilities grant uh that'll help with improvements to the upstairs to make it even a better cultural facility because that's what that program you're talking about phase three phase three so that would be the next phase that's not what we're asking for this year but I think we go after every grant we can possibly get foundations as well we're we're currently studying all of those options for for pieces of it and yeah hc bhc b was I've been here since I worked there right but it was there was a certain g should we be helping town to do what they ought to do anyway sure that question always apply to this kind of stuff but that doesn't mean I think part of our dilemma as you can recognize is this town is wealthy with historic assets I'm going to put it that way and um we have the old west church we have you know I don't need to enumerate all of them but happily memorial hall is being helped substantially by that okay currently so it's a question of how many landmarks get helped by the same all of the same people indeed so sure I have two questions I'm imagining at town meeting people look 200 000 dollars wow that's a lot can you break that down how much it would cost each homeowner say per hundred thousand dollars of property I think it's about 43 dollars if your properties weren't 200 000 dollars if you think 43 well if you had that information that would help a lot of these people always what's this going to cost oh yes and the other thing I'm wondering you could come up with a figure a rough figure of how much of this expense is being poured back into the community by hiring locally well yeah I mean some of that is sort of on here but yeah but just a general barnyard figure of this isn't money that's going out the door to somewhere else what yeah I mean that those are two great points yeah those are two really great points I think we're I think one of the reasons we're so excited about this project is exactly what we're saying which is not only have we gotten this pared down to an amazing price tag in my humble opinion but but we're using local resources to get this done even the town's employees are all going to pitch in and do the excavation and you know it's pretty amazing I don't know a lot of towns that are going about it in quite the same way it's what it's what Scott has done the hyper local approach and that's how we're building this where it's that's what brought the price tag from Arnoldon Skangus's estimates way down yeah that's one question I had I understand that I'm in favor of that but that doesn't mean it's free if the town crew is here working on this project or not they're not working on the roads and yeah what's not getting done they're already maxed out maybe less so in the summer but we can't at all just say oh that's not going to pass us anything that's not true and the other thing I wanted to ask you about is on the summary of expenses on this whatever color this is she beige um peach salmon the summary of expenses income and expenses there's a 38,880 dollar number there so why are you asking for 200,000 if it's almost 40,000 dollars over what's needed I'm not saying it won't be needed but that's not justified on this well if anybody wants to come to the office I have like all the bids from all the contractors here I'm just wondering why why why why do you need to ask for 200,000 if you're showing a surplus of 38,880 well when we're in the mode yeah just let me when you're in the mode of a project this is nothing but an estimate and if we don't have to it will end up costing a loss a lot more if we end up short during the project so explain that that number is just there okay so usually in fact I've kept every sheet of expenses as we've gone along last for three months there's a 10% contingency that 10% contingency I did not put in expenses so if you had 10% I'm just saying we should probably put that on I agree so the contingency should be out of them you're right yeah yeah I'm not sure this would be ready to put into the budget but I think we can assume that there'll be some contributions from from ongoing users of the building such as the callous historical society that can be put on the income side yes I mean we have currently a line item that includes donations so this is my income sheet and I have a firm column and then I have a to be determined column and in that to be determined column there are some organizations in town that are going to ask for money there are some people in town are going to ask for somebody don't want to make promises we can't keep so that's why it's in life to be determined we're being conservative right now about fundraising uh beyond grants um as a category and one of the reasons we're being conservative are again the number of landmarks in this community who are also going out to the same donor base to raise money for the steeple at the old west church um memorial hall the sawmill kent museum you know there are too many and we're trying purposely if you must know not to be competing with other projects in town that have no other alternative but to do that with a municipally owned facility like this it is for all of callous to pay for this and not an option the way that other landmarks in town operate that's kind of the philosophy that I would use and I just want to point out that okay so the town office I think we moved in there in 2006 that was designed when we had one person in the office right with no assistant nothing now we've got three listers we've got a treasurer a clerk part-time assistant clerk um Jonathan Williams who's the select board um the administrator uh we've got people in there using the the conference table uh throughout the day uh we have to link a tax collector whom are these all these people I've seen my experience lister the last whatever it's almost six years that every year the state says oh we want you to do this little thing for us this little and and so the the work that that's being dumped on the town that's the best work I mean it's really happening the state wants certain things and they say oh the town will take care of it's just one little thing and every year is one just one little thing um I'll just testify that I know there's a movement of an open office you know concept we've taken that to the extreme where you can't even think straight because there's the phones ringing there's people coming in for dog tags there's lawyers researching lawyers are wishing they could use our computers because we don't have a public computer the listers are having an argument about how to appraise a particular property it's very very hectic um so that that and and the expectations for listers expand the same for treasurers clerks auditors everybody else the workload just keeps expanding so I really do see that building as primarily needed to be an office building in the future well and currently what it's used for meeting space quite often it's over technically what the allowable amount of people is supposed to be in that building so that's a that's a problem Michael um what happens to those box views that get taken out we're not we're not sure we're not sure yet we know they did not come from this building so they are most certainly most certainly but that's the the nice thing about the box views is that they are not original to this building therefore the seating upstairs will be a lot more flexible the the benches we believe are the benches are actually original to the building we're pretty sure so all of the benches will be retained but you can get them out of the way when there is a contra dance upstairs and the benches will be augmented with stacking chairs so we intend to auction those off um regrettably the stoves can no longer be used with the vision that you see before us so the stoves may get auctioned off um this hopefully those things can be sold to the advantage of the project and if we pressure the representatives to get rid of the whole ceiling property tax system and replace it with an income tax we won't need the dam blisters I think those stackable chairs going to be plastic and modern in appearance, that would be really disappointing. Correct. I totally agree. I don't think we've selected a model that my hope would be that they would be quite comfortable and yet stately looking. Probably not really. I'm not sure that's callous, but I agree. Just the construction detail, John mentioned a radiant slab here and then somebody mentioned saving this pine or screws whatever it is and using that for the floor. Which is it? Both. Every sleeper and then the wood go back. You know that doesn't work as well as you'd like to think it does? It does work though. As long as the slab is well insulated, four inches under it and at least two inches on the perimeter, then the heat's got, I agree, that it's got to get through the wood. But it's going to come through the wood before it goes down into the soil. I'll do that, but it'll take a lot more of it. The idea is that because this will be used, not 24-7, but hopefully during the day and the evenings, we're not going to be raising the temperature and dropping it down where the upstairs would probably be completely different. Or we'll have something like modemes or something where we can get fast heat and then it could cool down even when after it's insulated, the storm windows are out. It's a manual source. What fuel was in vision? Propane. Yeah, propane's going down, I heard. Wow, it smells like petroleum right over here. And actually, you're talking about solar. Yeah, we did. Another grant. Yeah, it's another old way to eat berries. Yeah, I have to go, but I was curious about one more thing before I go. Would the changes, would that mean that voting could happen here again? Or is that not something that's ever going to happen? Yeah, town meetings. I don't know. Yeah, I think the future knows, but it would be nice if we could have town meeting here. We could have town meeting. You know, use the upstairs and then have, you know, the big screen right downstairs so you can hold twice the amount of people. So it could be, you know. So I would keep in track of how many people come to town meeting or how many people vote. And it's usually around 200, unless it's some really controversial issue. So how many chairs will fit up there, John? I got 100 up there and they throw the benches in. I think you're looking at about 130. I don't know if you're going to get many more people up there. At this stage, you've already seen that the stage platforms are pushed forward. There's a partition in the benches. And what I drew to get that number also had sort of code compliant widths for egress and such. And when we had town meeting, you would monitor on the tape measures. But if we could use both floors. Right. One of the things that would happen before the phase three of the upstairs space is we'd make sure that we had either the conduit or stuff in place. So that anticipated wiring needs. We did have a town meeting that used both floors and we used video projection so people on one floor knew what the other floor was doing. That we had a way to deal with that wiring. Thank you. Thanks for coming. Thank you all for. Other questions? Or does anybody want to talk to John about law and how specific comments and stuff for each other? Yeah. I don't have a question. I just wanted to say one quick thing. You alluded to it already. But I think Scott Bassage deserves all of our thanks because when we talk about the local program or the hyper local program. We're really talking about the Scott Bassage doggedly and determinedly exploring all of these possibilities and then doggedly and determinedly explaining to all the rest of us why this was a good way to go. Thank you. Thank you for coming. Please talk this up and get other people to come to the remaining sessions. We're going to East Calus. We're going to Atomant. We're going to Mainland Corner with this same show in the next couple of weeks. So please talk it up. This is the Edible Landscape Garden that's been planted back. And I like to call it Jamie's Garden. We hope that John will put Jamie's Garden on here. I've already got it up. Right. Good garden show. Make sure to look at the other people. I've already got it up. Right. Good garden show. Make sure to look upstairs. And go upstairs. Just be sure to go upstairs. Not done it in paint in 20 minutes.