 So, I know these afternoon talks are, you know, after lunch, people kind of lose their energy, so I really appreciate you being here for the stock. I hope it's going to be very valuable to you. So, when we talk about branding, I mean, we could talk about it all day long, obviously, and everyone has their own definition, and I think that this is something that it's easier to experience than it is to really explain using words. But I'm going to give my best shot. So, the way I define a brand, so a brand is a collection of impressions that the audience has about a company, a product, or a person. And these impressions, they may be positive, they may be negative, so all of that is combined in our brand. And while we may affect these impressions, we cannot control them because they ultimately belong to other people. So, that's really important to note about branding, that you can't kind of control every little piece of it because people take from it what they take. And another thing that we mentioned when we talk about branding, usually people think it's a visual brand, like the logo, the colors, the typography, the illustrations, the icons, but that's just tip of the iceberg. So, we have other elements of branding. I try to show it in a visual way here that are non-visual, so like values, mission, ideal client, unique value proposition, customer experience, like all of these things form your brand. And if you were to go buy the book and create a brand strategy that has all of these elements, it would take you a long time, it would take you a lot of money, a lot of effort, and big businesses, they use this kind of approach and they spend months or even years creating their brands. And as small service-based businesses, we kind of don't have that luxury. So, we have to maybe take some shortcuts and we have to decide what's important and what is not so important so we can focus on what makes the biggest difference. And you're in luck because you have an advantage over big companies. So, let me tell you a story about a freelancer who started off as a web designer and he's now a successful author and creates some digital products and courses, etc. But when he started his career, he was employed in a marketing agency and he created websites for their clients. And after a few years, he realized he didn't really like the way this agency operated. So, he said, okay, I'm going to quit. And when the clients of that company found out, they started calling him and asking, hey, Paul, we're going to work next because we want to keep working with you and we're going to work with the company that you work for. And he got one call, two calls, several calls and then he realized, hmm, maybe I don't need another job. Maybe I can serve these clients directly as a freelancer. And that was the start of his booming career. Now, what the story illustrates essentially is this advantage that freelancers, small agencies have, is that people don't connect with companies. They form relationships with people. So in this case, Paul had a stronger brand than this agency and his clients, they wanted to follow him wherever he went. They had no sense of loyalty to the company he was to work for. They would work with anyone just if Paul was there. So, this is something that you have. This is something that you can use in your own brand. So the rules of branding for product-based businesses and for service-based businesses are quite different. Now, first of all, what is a product? A product is something, it may be an artifact, a digital product that is created irrespective of other people's individual opinions and needs and feedback. You create a product and then you sell it to people. You can scale it and it's pretty impersonal. But services are tailored to the clients, to their needs. So you need to design something, you need to create it, you need to produce it, you need to deliver it. And sometimes you also need to provide some customer service, et cetera. And this is really intense. And sometimes it can get really personal. And if you have this really intense relationships with clients, it's really important that you work with the kind of people that you can relate to very well. So what people often do when they start their small agencies is that they try to use this kind of corporate speak. And they say stories like, oh, we're experts. We use cutting-edge technology. We have x years of experience, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then when everyone is saying the same things, it kind of all boils into one. Everyone looks the same. And how do you know who to trust? But clients need to trust you, because as a service provider, you get an insight into their business that they're not showing to other people. You essentially see what their business looks like with their pants down. And you need to do this so you can help them, so you could provide the service for them so their business could grow. And the way we use branding here is to build that trust so the clients can feel safe in your hands, so the clients feels comfortable showing you this insight info so they really tell you about their real problems, not just their surface problems, you know, why they actually want to do the things they want to do. And branding is one way that we achieve that. So the cost of having a weak and impersonal brand are pretty high. Now, when you have this kind of a weak brand that's all based on like cliches and what you see other people do, what happens is that you attract all sorts of weirdos for clients. And you probably have that experience, like people who they don't value your services, they try to drive down your prices, or they're paying you late, or maybe they call you in the middle of the night or on the weekend, I want you to fix their problem immediately because it's so urgent, and then they disappear for three months, and then they come back and now it's really urgent, or they think they can do your job for you. And if you have more of these clients, then it gets really exhausting, and I've talked to people that, you know, they say, you know what, I'm really considering leaving this all behind and just starting a sheep farm because I can't handle the stress anymore. So this is what happens to small businesses. When they're forced to work with people, they just can't work with it, it's just not working out. So this isn't the 90s anymore, you know, we can't be just, oh, I'm a designer, I'm a developer, and we're like, everything's gonna be great. No, like in this room alone, there are dozens of your competitors. In this building, are hundreds of your competitors, we really need to do better. So my number one tip is just stop imitating corporations. Stop looking to big companies, stop following the same rules they're following because you are not in the same league. Like you're different, you're a special case in a good way. So inevitably when people talk about branding, there's a company that comes up very often and it's Apple. Like Apple is the best at branding, they have the best branding, their branding is gorgeous. Like we wanna be like Apple, but for insert niche. I've heard so many people say that. And guess what, you can't be like Apple. You're not in the same league. Like they're a multi-billion dollar company that have millions of customers worldwide that they need to appeal to. And you don't need that kind of great market. Like you need just maybe a dozen clients a year or maybe 100 clients over the course of your business lifetime. You don't have to go through all the hoops that they're going through. It's really, really much more simple for you. So one example of these complicated tools that brands use, mostly it's product based brands, is the brand persona. So maybe you've heard about that. So a brand persona is like an imaginary avatar of a brand. And it represents the qualities that this company has decided that the brand is going to have. And it's like a superhero. So they're perfect. They have all these great qualities and they essentially say, okay, so this persona, this is who our customers are relating to, this imagined being. But who is this persona? Like who does it represent? It's not a real person. Like it's just a facade. It's just a shell that is empty. And people are not fooled by that. There are some things in marketing that kind of work on people psychologically, but people are not stupid. Like we know when a person is a person and we know when something is not a person. For you, you don't need this brand personas because the real foundation of your brand are the people who work in your business. They're the people who answer the phone. They're the people who type the emails. They're the people who are attending meetings with clients and who do the work. So they are the ones who either delight your clients or disappoint your clients. And they are who the clients connect with. Because clients don't care about personas and avatars. They care about you. They trust you. They expect from you to help them, to be there for them and to solve their problem. Now branding for service is pretty straightforward. It's not easy. But you don't need all the complicated tools that product-based businesses use because, as I said, you already have an advantage. What your brand needs to do is to answer these like four essential questions. So who are we? What value do we provide? What do we stand for? And who do we serve? If you don't know the answer to these questions yet, your brand is on a bit of a shaky foundation. But now we're gonna see how we can answer all of those individually. So our first question, who are we? That's a hard question to answer, isn't it? Because who has the courage to let themselves be seen by other people? Like, we're usually kind of shy and feel like they're gonna think I'm weird if I really tell other people like what I'm really like. Like, I have to be professional. I have to have this kind of a, you know, presence on. So I don't let clients know that I'm really flawed and that I have some, you know, that I don't know everything. I have to be an expert. And we all fall prey to that and I do that all the time. So I know what it feels like. And so we use all this kind of corporate speak to kind of hide behind it. We use our company name so we can kind of, you know, put it in front of us and hold it like as a barrier, as a boundary between us and other people. But it's doing us maybe more harm to good if we never just allow people to see us as real people. So we use this kind of speak, you know, like we're the experts. We do this, we do that. We have a combined experience of 200 years. Like, we're dedicated to the success of your business. But this isn't the kind of words that your clients would use to describe you. You know, imagine a client saying, like, they're in a coffee meeting with their friend and they're saying, you know, we're creating a new website. Oh great, who's developing it? Oh, you know, we hired the steam of highly skilled experts who are dedicated to success of our business. Nobody talks like that. But what would they say about you? Like, you know, maybe they would say, oh, you know what, this developer, he's like really, really orderly and organized and never misses a deadline, ever. Or the designer, you know, she's been doing this since high school, so she really has a lot of experience and she does great stuff. Or maybe they would say, oh, these people, they're awesome. Like, they'll answer any questions you have. And do you know they have a dog-friendly office? Like, how cool is that? You know, they would humanize you. They would tell stories about you because this is how people relate. They don't use these CV bullet points to talk about you. So using the kind of language that your clients would use on your about pages, on your home pages, this is really what can help them understand who you are. And to get to know, you know, what you are like as a person and if they would relate to you that way. If your personality is kinda what they would expect from someone like you. And if they kind of get your sense of humor, if they get your interests, you know, maybe you can bond over mutual interests and stuff like that. So that is really helpful. So as I mentioned, your brand is represented by the people who work in your company. So stop hiding your teammates behind a we. Present them all individually. Like, put their photo on the about page. Write a little description about each and every person. And while you're describing them, you can use the language that your clients and your friends use to describe you. Because, you know, when you just write me, me, me, me, me and I say this and I say that, that doesn't tell you a lot. But when you use the words that your clients use, then this kinda creates what's in it for me. So for example, you can use our clients call him or our clients say she is or the rest of the team come to him for, and where's like that. And that is really, you know, it creates another extra layer of trust because they see, okay, so it's not just them, you know, singing their own anthem. It's actually, there's something about this that other people like about them. So this is an example that I picked because I really loved that page when I saw it first and that was a long time ago. It was like 10 years ago or more. This was a creation web agency. It was very big agency that worked with like top creation companies and media houses. And the reason I picked this example is that this was the first time that a web agency has kinda broke out of this corporate mold and did something really weird in a way. So what they did is they listed all of their team members and each of them had a page with a description which was kinda funny and had some little quirks about this person besides what they actually do. And each of them had this little illustrated superhero doll or like a figurine. And that was also kinda cool. Now luckily, you don't have to make your own custom illustrated superhero figures. You can just put your photo on your about page. And just let it be a photo where your face can be clearly seen because this is a big trust signal to clients. When they see your photo, then they think that you are someone they can trust. If there's no photo, like, is this even a real person? Like, who is this? It could be just, you know, a fake website. Like, so make it kinda more personable and more real and put all of your employees there because that really helps. Okay, so second question. What kind of value do we provide? Now, in the startup world, they often say, you know, talk about the benefits, not the features. So what does the thing that you do actually provide for clients? Like, what are they able to do now that they were not able to do before? What do they have now that they didn't have before? So, Tara Gentili, she's a small business consultant, so I've just shared her quote that I'm gonna read here. So, value is transformation. If the transformation isn't clear, neither is the value of what you're offering. Life coaching isn't value. Web design isn't value. Jewelry isn't value. Value is telling someone how their idea of themselves, their environment, their relationships, their skills, or their behavior will change as a result of using your product. Value is making it clear that there's a before and an after. And making the story come alive on the page, on the call, or in the conversation. Okay, so she mentioned the word product, but it also works for services. Essentially, it's this new, you know, first they had a problem, and then you came along, and now their problem is solved. Now, HTML, CSS, WordPress, REST, jQuery, whatever, that's not value, that's the method. And the clients don't really care about the method. If you were able to do the same thing with cardboard and duct tape, they would buy it anyway. Where they really care is the transformation that they go through. So value can be expressed either in profits earned, or time saved, or skills and abilities acquired, or in the increase health and satisfaction. All of that can be a value. And this is what they care for. This is what they care about. This is what they want to buy. This is what you sell. So they care about the transformation. They want you to help them to become a better version of themselves. Now, the third question that we need to answer is what do we stand for? Now, this is also one that's a tricky one, because here we come into this realm of personal values. Now, there are many people that think that personal doesn't have a place in business, but I disagree. Because many of us have started our business because of our personal values. If we didn't care about the personal, maybe we would be back in that old job, or back in that old career that we used to do before. But there was something about that old job, or the old career that just didn't work for us. So many of us have experience that sometimes we may not be sure what's wrong, but we feel that something is wrong. We feel like maybe our work isn't contributing to the world enough, like maybe we're not making a big enough impact. Maybe we feel like we don't fit in with our team in our workplace. Maybe we'd get a client that we just get a weird feeling of. We can't tell what it is, but something's just not working for us. And these are actually, this might be the symptoms of this value mismatch. With other people around you, don't share the same values that you have. So it's difficult for you to connect. So every company, whether it's big or small, they kind of need to put a line in the sand and say, this is what we stand for. This is something that we would never compromise on. This is something that all of our clients and all of our team members have to be on board with. Or otherwise, we just can't work together. We can't collaborate. So there are many people, many, many people in the world who have the skills that your business requires. But few of them will fit into your team. So when you're choosing people who will work with you and also when you're choosing the clients you're gonna work with, you need to look for that fit of both values and skills. A lot of companies use their mission statements on their websites. Now you don't have to write a complicated mission statement. You just need to write, this is what matters to us. These are our values. So your mission is your values in action. What are you going to do to make these values come alive in the world? What are you going to do to bring those values to other people? It can be really, really simple. You don't have to overthink it. So finally the last question is who do we serve? So these are our clients. Finally, we can talk about our clients. Now there is a thing in branding that we usually call the ideal client. And that's like a mental model that describes our clients that we want to work with, that are the best clients that we want. Because there are millions of possible clients in the world but not all of them are good for us. Like we need to kind of choose who we want to focus on because if we spread yourself too thin then you kind of don't serve anyone in the best way possible. But if you happen to answer all of these previous questions and finding that ideal client is gonna be really easy. So your ideal client is the person who appreciates you and your unique approach to your work. Who also needs the value you offer and who also shares your personal value system. Now if you take like the population of the entire world and you eliminate everyone who doesn't like you and doesn't appreciate you and then you eliminate everyone who doesn't need what you offer and then you eliminate everyone who doesn't share your core value system where you end up is with your pool of potential ideal clients. And you can further filter those clients by their current situation. So do you wanna work with startups or do you wanna work with mature businesses? Okay, so what is their annual revenue? How many employees do they have? What is their top goal this year that you can help them achieve? Are they local? Maybe that's important for your business. So you add these little filters and then you find that perfect person that you want to reach with your branding and with your marketing. And we can focus on this person then branding and marketing becomes a lot easier because then you have to cover like this very, very, very narrow population. So you can use visual elements that communicate with them that they relate to and you can also create content that presents your services as a means to get from where they are now to where they want to go. And then you can also attend events where they hang out or you can publish in these publications that they read. So you can really focus to spend your time and energy where it matters and just forget about all the rest where your ideal clients are just not likely to even be. Now, often when companies talk about this thing called culture, they mean their employees, like their team members, how they all get along together. But when you're a small business, it's also your clients who define your culture, especially if you work alone, like you can't have a culture of one, you need at least two people to form some kind of a culture. And if you start taking these people who are not really the right fit, the ideal fit, then you don't have a culture. In order to have a culture, you need to also have some kind of boundaries and only accept those people that really fit in with the culture that you want to create. And you're not a bad person if you don't want to work with everyone, it's okay to say no. Everyone just needs to say, learn how to say no more often. So okay, you may be wondering, okay, but why does this work? How does it even work? There are many reasons why this works, but I'm gonna show you just three because three is a nice number. So first one is being on brand is easy because you don't have to overthink things, you don't have to pretend, you don't have to second guess yourself, you can just sit down, write your content, you can just talk to people, like you can walk up to them and just be a normal person and it takes a lot less energy for you. Now the second reason is that it attracts the best people to you. And when I mean the best, I mean the best for you. Like people that you really like that resonate with your sense of humor that care about the same things you care about that you can have a normal conversation with, you can talk about hobbies that you share, you can talk about personal stuff. When you work with someone for a long time, they kind of become a part of your extended family or your outer circle of friends. That is really wonderful when that happens. And the third reason is that this drives a healthy company culture. So if you decide to grow, if you decide to hire a team member, then this is going to be a really easy way to find someone who is the right fit. And the right people will also want to work with you because they know that what they get in your company, they won't be able to find elsewhere. They won't be lured away by a higher salary because you also become like a little family of your own where everyone is happily getting along and working towards a mutual benefit. So often we say, you know, we want to be new. We want to be original. We want to be different. That's what branding really helps us do. And the easiest way to be different is to just be yourself because every one of us is unique. We all have something that makes us slightly different from the next person. And we also have things that make us all similar. So just be yourself and you're halfway there. But being ourselves is easier said than done because our culture doesn't really support everyone in being themselves. You know, we have a lot of biases. We have a lot of discrimination. So this is hard work. I'm not saying that this is like super easy. You just wave a magic wand and everything is going to get fixed. This is hard to do. But I think it's really rewarding for everyone because at least you know that you're doing your best and that you're happy doing the work you're doing. And the financial rewards are not just your only goal. You also do stuff that make you feel satisfied with yourself. In this world where, you know, big brands are dominating our homes and our work spaces and our public spaces, the authentic human connection is really a breath of fresh air. We need transparency and authentic connection. We need more of that in the world. Your relationships with your clients are your best and biggest business tool. But you can't fake this. This is a trick. Now if you try to do this just because you want to make more money, it's not going to work. If you want to pretend to be a pal with your clients, it's not going to work. It has to be honest. It has to come really from you. And that's the only way that your clients are really going to resonate with your branding. So the only reason that you will succeed if you actually care about your clients and you start showing them that. Because this is what makes your brand remarkable. Thank you. Thank you. So I say, you know, I want to say so much about branding. I could literally write a book and I did write a book and it's coming out soon. So if this is something that interests you that you want to learn more about, you can find out more at humancenterbrand.com and subscribe to Get Notified when the book finally comes out. But now I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have. And if you want to hang out later, we can also do that at the Happiness Bar. Thank you. And congratulations on the book. Congratulations. Do we have any questions? Raise your hand so we can bring a mic to you. Come on, you must have some questions. Oh, yes. We have one here in the front. Can you please stand up so everyone can see you? Yes. I think it's also very important because your point is from a freelancer perspective. But I think also a company and the people in there, they have to have their personal brand. Do you agree with that? Yes. So each employee has their own personal brand. They bring it to the company and they also as a group have this kind of a group brand. So a company brand is one thing and it's still kind of personal, but also each person of the team, they bring their own new perspective. And each new person is kind of bringing more value to this brand because they're not just, they're not uniform people, they're not someone who just assumes this company brand, like they put on a uniform and now it's like in McDonald's or somewhere, you're like, yeah, thank you. I have a manual on how I have to act and what I have to be. No, here every person has their own way of how they relate to clients. So yes, I agree that is absolutely important in a company setting. Thank you. Thank you. Microphone here, please. Thank you. And if you can, thank you. Hi, thank you. Hi. Great show. I just wanna share and ask something because I'm moving from a small agency to expanding and actually my company's name is in Hebrew, transparency, which is our main value. And I'm struggling with defining myself as a bigger agency without losing the individual self connection with the customers. And I'm trying to think, really think of how do I do it, expanding and stay personal and stay in touch and do all those things as you grow and you must show you're a big company right now. So how you do that in the staging because it's hard to focus on what to do first. Yeah, that is hard, but we have to realize one thing that when we think about a company and when we talk about a company, usually what we talk about is our experiences with the people who work there. So when you think about a big company like a telecom, every country has this big telecom, but how do you talk about them? Oh, you know, I called them yesterday and I had to wait on a phone for an hour and blah, blah, blah. And then this person asked me, did you try turning it on and off? And like, what was that? So, you know, you always have that personal connection. You're always going to have a personal connection. So maybe your issue is more like how to make your team and your client understand this better. So you have to kind of instruct your team and say, look, you are our ambassadors with our clients. And when you talk to our client, we all kind of have to agree with this value and you need to bring this value to our clients because your clients are going to have this contact person. You know, there's an account manager. There's always some kind of an account manager. And this person is really the touch point of your brand. So we invest in the man in touch. Yes, of course, they're the most important. And you know, this is why it's important to keep people who work with you. There are people who work for the same company for 20 years because they're happy there. And you know, this person gets retired and the new person who replaces it, it's just not the same thing. It's just not the same experience. We get really, you know, did you ever have to change a hairdresser? Like your old dress, hairdresser doesn't work anymore. You have to find a new one that's stressful. Like whenever you have to change a person you worked with, it's very stressful. It's just, you get used to one person. So really, I think your goal here right now is just to spend more time with your team so they understand this as well as you already understand this. Thank you. I hope that helps. We have a question there. Thank you. Especially in marketing and branding, I find that there are these concepts that are totally clear. Like for example, how do you provide value? And in everyday life, they are so complicated. I worked in one company for 10 years. I built it. And even on the last day, when I sold my share, I couldn't put it on paper, you know, in direct ways. It's so complicated. It's all a word cloud in my head. And so do we have some practical tips? How you can refine this or how you can see the value that you're providing? Maybe even in an ongoing way, because when you work with 10 or 20 people, it's maybe not that easy as one workshop. And then that's it. You come out with this and it's done. We have some practical tips. How can you find the good words for your value, for example, and then maintain them, spread them, communicate them? I think the cheat code is to ask your clients. Like ask them what value they are getting from you, because you may have one idea of what value you're offering and maybe they're taking something completely different. So for some clients, you know, it's really about making their life easier. For some people, it's really the ability that you make them look great in front of their clients and their audience. So every client is going to take something different and it's really important that after you finish a project, that you ask them, like, oh, hey, so what was the best thing about this for you? What this achieved for you? It's really asking your clients to tell you with their words is going to make it so much easier because we're too much into this. We're inside, like inside our own minds and inside our own process and often we have a difficult time to really even understand how other people perceive the work we do. So talking to people, it doesn't have to be on paper. Like you can just have a chat, just hang out with your long-term clients, with those that come back over and over again because they're going to give you some really, really valuable answers about this and this can change. So as you said, you know, companies change, things improve all the time, but your clients are your best source of information for that kind of words and descriptions that you can use in your marketing also. Thank you. Thank you. We have a question there. Hi. Hi. I hope that my question will not be too much of topic. We try to build our brand and spend many years so our brand will be value and good and then one person in the company make huge mistake. How can we save the company? Like imagine United Airlines. Do you know what happened? Like how they can save their brand after mistake like that. Thank you. Thank you. I think what customer, like clients don't expect you to be perfect, but they expect you to own your mistakes. So it's really important to make a good apology because lots of people, they don't know how to apologize. They just try to back step and try to make it look like it's not their fault, but what people really want is for you to say, okay, we made a mistake, it's a big one, and we will do our best for it to not happen again. If this means firing someone, then maybe we're gonna fire someone. If this means improving our hiring processes, maybe that's what we do. If this means educating our team better so they don't do something like that again, it's important just to address how you are going to move forward because this mistake happened because there was something was missing. Either this person was not trained properly or maybe you just hired a person who is not the right fit for your culture. So there are many reasons why a mistake might happen. Sometimes mistakes happen because the process has like one button that you press, the launch missile button, and someone pressed the wrong button and it was like a huge mistake, but it was just a tiny fraction of a second and that can end up with like something that has huge consequences. So it's really about owning it and then saying, okay, this is how we're going to do and we really value your trust, we value your business, we will do what it takes to make it better for you. You know, if there's something we can do to just redeem ourselves, you know, freebies and discounts and stuff like that can kind of live in the mood, so just try to save the relationship. This is really what is important to people to make them feel acknowledged like it's us, we accept it and we're going to make it better, we promise. I hope that helps, thank you. More questions? One in the back please, thank you. First I'd like to thank you for the great talk as a person who's also involved in branding. I'd like to ask you a question on how I think we didn't hear much about it and I'm really interested in your opinion to be honest in regards to how do you think what is the best way for the brand to appeal not only to the customers and the prospects and to the employees as well because you know, in a certain situation for example, where you have a big team of employees and you have few star players, let's put it like that. These people in order to be star players, let's say this, they in some way are different from the mass. I think we can all agree on that. So how do you make these people fit in with the brand and the culture that the brand actually implements in the company? Well, did these star players come in outright in this culture as people who kind of really share the values of your company because this really matters because there are stars that are great and there are stars that kind of ruin the culture because this often happens, you know when you have, I think there was something as Uber there was like this big executive and top management that was harassing sexually like all the other female employees and he was kept in the company because he was a star but sometimes stars need to get kicked out if they don't play by the rules, if these rules are like normal rules, not very, you're not expecting them to be a different person, you just say, okay, you can't do that because that's just not appropriate. So you don't force people to become a different kind of person but you do expect them to be decent people and to not kind of draw, I mean they can draw attention to themselves and their own personal brand but you expect kind of that even the stars are going to come to your company because they really want to be there, they want to be a part of the group and they may be different, they may be eccentric, they may have their own vision and that's why you invited them because this is their perspective that you want to have but still there has to be something for them in those core values, in this mission, something that they also relate to. So sometimes some stars fit in and some stars just need to find a better place for them or maybe they're better off just doing their own thing. I'm not sure if this answers your question in the way that you imagined it, I'm not sure if I understood the question well, so if you have like a follow-up, maybe. I totally understand, thank you. I was just looking into a more broad answer but I suppose we are at limited time here so it would be nice if we talk afterwards. Yeah, I'd love to. Yeah, thank you very much again. Thank you. We have time for one more question. Yes, there, thank you. Thank you. First of all, it was a great presentation, so thank you. Thank you. And I have a simple question, maybe, but can you build a good brand on a bad brand name? Hmm, depends on a brand name. Is it just dull or is it offensive or is it, you know? Let's say the brand name was like accidental. Accidental, okay. For example, it didn't take into consideration that it might be successful, but the products of the brand can be successful. Of course. I mean, and they became successful and the brand is, you know, should be changed. Would you build on this brand name or would you develop something different? Well, brands change names all the time. I mean, that's not the worst thing in the world. So it's a decision that each company does for themselves. Like, is it more worth it to keep this present name that people are already relating you to or is it better to just try something else that maybe gives a little more approachable message to these clientele because, you know, companies grow. You can't stay the same all the time. It's just not viable that you'll figure out something, you know, now and then in 20, 30 years things will still be the same. That just doesn't happen because, you know, we learn things along the way. So maybe you can come up with a better name or maybe you can come up with a sub-brand for those products or, you know, maybe you can just change the name a little. Okay, so I think the suggestion is to change the name. Yeah, I'm not, I don't know the name, I don't know the product, so I can give, you know, don't take my word for it. I just think that that's what companies do if they feel that they don't resonate with the name because it's really, how do you feel about that name? I mean, do you feel good saying that name? Do you feel good seeing it on paper because your brand really needs to feel good to you? Yes, I think it should feel good to me to my clients as well. Okay, if it feels good to you, then don't change it. Yes. Thank you. Awesome. Okay, so this is it for us. Thank you so much. Thank you for coming here. Thank you. Thank you.