 All right, we are recording. What's up everybody drew here that anxiety guide calm back as I was with Billy from anxiety United That's his eye. It's up Bill Good. How are you? I'm drinking my coffee and I'm drinking coffee, and I believe that this is a holiday cup. I Hope that's decaf. It is decaf as a matter of fact. It is decaf Decaf sugar-free non-fat Yes, but Starbucks has now got these look like Christmas presents So it's a day after you know, it's two days after Halloween, so we have to start celebrating Christmas now in the US, of course Yeah, exactly. So Today we are going to talk a little bit more about we're gonna talk about our Facebook group and how everybody can start to Participate more instead of just listening to us. They're actually getting involved and maybe Using the podcast as a way to start moving forward a little bit, right? That's the plan. So the first thing that we should probably tell everybody is it's certainly not required You're welcome to watch and listen all you want without joining the group But we do have a Facebook group that's associated with the podcast now and we will link it both in the video descriptions So the fast URL bit.ly right bit.ly slash Anxiety 101 forum. I think something we could put it on the screen or something. You can see it We'll put it in the in the video description We'll be put on the screen too or something. We'll figure that out But I would say if you're interested in getting involved in discussion Where it's not all about just listing symptoms and commiserating commiserating is fine now and then but it's really more about Sharing successes and failures and encouraging each other and rooting each other on and propping each other up Then come on and we would love to have you moving forward. We had our first I'm gonna give a special shout out to my friend Cali in Massachusetts Cali posted video yesterday She found her spark from episode 18 last episode and she decided to go out and take a walk That has been a challenging walk for her and she posted a bunch of videos in the group and everybody got to watch it and Cali Thank you for sharing that and that was rock star shit right there. It's cool. Yeah, it was great I mean yeah, absolutely, so I would encourage everybody if you can get involved if you want that encouragement There's it's a good group of people. It's only gonna get better So it was like a chain reaction So it's a he found her spark from our video and then I've watched that and it's made me feel something You know, that's how it works chain reaction and that's the good part about it So I need to join the group just to follow along. You don't have to participate if you don't want to but anyway, everybody's welcome It's free. It's just a Facebook thing. So hop on in that's where everybody is not a Facebook fan But that's where everybody is so it is what it is, right? Yeah, yeah, so I'd say join the group for sure and we wanted to talk about maybe setting goals for this month Where it is November 2nd 2017 when we were recording this So you know November, November. I have to start like letting the facial hair go again. I shaved If you're watching this in real time this will be published on November, what do we say 7th? Yeah? Yeah So 2017 if you're watching in real time, we were talking about as maybe How can people maybe set a goal for this month? But even if you're not watching in real time if you're watching this in the future set yourself a goal for the next 30 days So what did you do? I mean you were talking about making a list that you that you've done in the past Yeah, yeah, I mean originally I made a list So I started with something that didn't really seem that scary But I knew that it was just like leaving the house was enough So I just set myself sort of a milestone to hit head towards about a five minute walk I think that was all it was okay, and then Option number two my mind went completely blank and option number two It happens was to just work walk a bit further to the local shop And then three was like drive somewhere get out walk somewhere else And I think the fifth thing was like to go to the big supermarket in the next town and just walk around that So like when I first made the list number five was Out there. I'd never actually Anticipated that I'd be able to do it, but by the time I'd work through the stuff I did end up doing it so It worked for me and hopefully I'll work for others But it was just I think the key was starting not too big It was something that weren't too easy either it was something that did actually cause anxiety So okay, I think that was important. All right, so I would say you know if you're watching you want to kind of work along this month with us make yourself a list or A list of things that you want to be able to accomplish this month whether you're ever 2017 with us or the next 30 days Whenever it is you're watching this listening Pick one thing two things three things that have been a challenge and Yeah, that's it because everybody's gonna be at different stages Yes, and we mentioned that in the group because somebody asked what will the task be and it's it's gonna be difficult to find something that Nobody can do or everybody struggles with because everybody's so different Right, so I think it's gonna be more of a an independent choice But definitely share your findings because that's the key part to helping others move forward It's about getting that motivation and inspiration. I think Yeah, I would agree with that and I think you can't underestimate that I know for me when I was really struggling Helping reaching out to help other people was really therapeutic for me I mean it helped me helping other people really helped me a lot So don't underestimate sharing sharing in a group like that where it's a supportive group of people Could really go a long way because when you're providing assistance to somebody else You wind up getting a lot of it back not even directly from other people. It's just the act of doing it sometimes helps Yeah, yeah, I would 100% So what I would say is when you're making your list for the next 30 days Even if you just put one thing on it doesn't matter my advice on this is Pick something realistic. So if you've been housebound for the last year and really haven't gone further than the end of your driveway alone You know, don't don't decide that by the end of the month. You're going to be you know on a cruise around the world That's that's not realistic. So pick something small, you know, even something like a daily task But sure would be great if I could go pick up my mail or something like that You know pick a small thing and put it on the list and then work You know decide that you're going to work on that this month So, you know, you know that that's all I'm thinking about right now What what's the task going to be? Hello, hello, is this thing on? Is this thing on? Well, I mean, that's okay. I think a lot of people will be thinking that so let me ask you a silly question Are you feeling any sort of like anticipatory anxiety about having to do this? It's weird like the other day I went to the local garage Which is something that would normally cause me anxiety And I put fuel in the car went in the garage Like walked around bought a sandwich bottle of drunken stuff and then came out took my lab to college, which is like 10 15 mile away and then got home and then I started thinking about this I knew that we were going to do something and then I thought to myself wait I've just I've just The stuff that I've just done is pretty much worse than what I would think Of doing for task number one. So it's ridiculous when you put it in the context of This is me challenging myself It becomes a whole different ball game to me just going out the door Doing what needs to be done and not even thinking about it. Yeah, so it's really it's really odd So I don't know I feel like I need to do something that's pretty big But then the thought of it terrifies me Well, if my if if my missus said Can you nip me here or walk around here with me or whatever? I'd probably do it Yeah, if I weren't thinking about it and you probably wouldn't give it that much thought It might there might be some anxiety involved, but you would just do it anyway Yeah, yeah, I think so it's funny But if you're planning it and I there was a question not too long ago What I think might have been a youtuber facebook question the plan versus unplanned exposure Yeah, yeah, exactly like that a little bit sometimes the unplanned stuff is easier because you don't have time to To worry about it ahead of time. Yeah. Yeah, but I also took my missus shopping I think it was Tuesday Then usually when I take it to the supermarket. I'm sitting in the car park feeling really edgy and just iffy But this time I was I was out the car. I was walking around the car park probably looking like a madman But just like I just felt so much more at ease. I don't know what it is I don't know whether like the caffeine thing seems ridiculous and I know I keep banging on about it It's not but I have genuinely felt so different for the last few weeks since not drinking caffeine I don't know. Wow. Like I'm not I'm not getting the bloated stomach that I usually get like the weird Nausea of feelings. I'm not getting any of that. I'm not sleeping great at the moment But I'm not feeling tired during the day, which is weird. I'm waking up earlier in the mornings. Yeah, I'm eating less I don't know. Wow. Okay Caffeine is poison. Well, evidently, it's made a big difference for you. So don't underestimate. Yeah. Yeah, whatever it is It's working exactly. That's the thing and like when I went to the garage the other day I just felt Complete calm even when I was at the checkout usually when I go to the till to pay for fuel or whatever There's a cash point outside. So I'll get the cash out So when I go to the till I can just chuck the cash and run Okay, but this time I didn't even think of it I just went in card in because obviously when you pay by card you have to put it in wait End your pin. There's a lot of hanging around I didn't even think about it. Yeah, just did it really. Yeah, odd I didn't start thinking about until after I did it And those are the best things, you know, when you're not thinking about it and you realize after it's like, look what I just did So we should probably address that so you're gonna everybody's gonna make or whoever wants to play along here You know make a list put a put a couple things realistic things on it You want to tackle next 30 days? But this is a good discussion the last couple of minutes here when you make that list You may actually start to feel anxiety just thinking about what you have to do now But but that's That's okay. First of all, it's completely normal. It's called anticipatory anxiety and and second of all You should feel that Like I'm going to keep reminding people as we go through these little exercises that the goal is not to not be anxious Like you're going to be anxious and part of so the exposure really and the work starts right now So when you start to make your list and you start to get anxious about oh my goodness I'm going to go wherever to the school and pick up my daughter And you start to get anxious about that. That's you're doing you're doing the work right there You're you're already doing the work when you make your list. So It's okay. Expect to feel nervous about what's coming up. Expect to dread it a little bit expect to be afraid of it You're supposed to feel that way That's part of the disorder right now. They're going to try and overcome. So It's okay. You're already working hard, dude What am I going to do you're sitting there working hard already just thinking about what you're going to do All I could think of is freaking bolding. That's the problem I know at least one person is going to laugh when you say that um So I guess the nuts and bolts of this what we'll do is you know post your list in the group if you want to or just Keep it private. It doesn't matter and I'm sure people will chime in and Discuss it with you and offer suggestions and and cheerleading and that sort of stuff And then as you go about working on it if you know, whether you just want to report back And and tell us what happened or you want to take video and post it like callie did yesterday You know, there's there's no rules. It's just however way you feel like sharing and participating Is good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I think we're up to like 70 something people right now in the group But it's it's all good people. So yeah, it's I think it's going to be solid So that being said should we take people through like an exposure Let's do it go back into the memory banks. I'll I'll think about maybe one of my old ones And we could go kind of through one of your old ones and yeah, yeah, what did it actually feel like? So Yeah, it didn't feel good, right? I'm still thinking about what I'm going to do. That's the problem. That's all right. All right, so I'll get the ball Right, so let's let's go through that like the nuts and bolts of what an exposure actually felt like to me so Those of you who've been following along know that for me I had an issue getting in the car and driving around Right. It was difficult to leave the house alone. It was really difficult to be in the car And that was because I would have panic in the car. So I became afraid to be in the car. So What I would literally do is first thing I had to do is decide that I was done feeling that way And we talked about getting that spark, right in the last episode And so my plan was I said, okay Here's what I what I have to do here is I have to get in the car and drive All the freaking time as often as I possibly can it doesn't matter where I'm driving Where if I'm going anywhere or not, it's just a matter of building that back up So as soon as I had an inkling that maybe I might have to get in the car leave the house and drive somewhere No matter how far or close it was. I would start to you know, the the anxiety levels would rise So for me, I knew that I had to really break it down and say, okay The object of the game here is first thing I have to do is is get dressed Like I have to put some clothing on to be able to go out of the house You know, it's it sounds ridiculous to break it down to something that's small, but it's true And I would you know, so I would do it in the morning So I would get up and I would the first thing I'd have to work on is forcing myself to just put my feet on the floor and get out of bed you know now For a variety of reasons at the time it was the dead of winter. We're having a very cold winter that year So who the hell wants to get out of bed anyway? But I would literally have to force myself to get up and just go through slowly and deliberately the motions of Taking something out of the closet get you know slowly getting dressed brushing my teeth slowly and deliberately and I really had to work on before I could get in the car and drive away I had to work on Building a routine that I was comfortable with that I did slowly and deliberately and I would watch my breathing And I wouldn't try and keep my mind clear to get to the point where I was at the front door dressed with my keys ready to go and There were times when you know, I would then get out the door and I would be in a panic getting in the car And I would barely make it through a few minutes But that morning was more about working on getting to the point where I wasn't getting in the car at a level eight panic already Um, so I didn't necessarily directly work on the skill of driving around First I worked on the skill of getting in the car without already being in a major panic And there's preparation the preparation. That's exactly right. Like what what am I thinking about right now? What I got to clear my head of this thought I have to let that thought go I have to let that thought go and it was it was work to go through and come up with that routine get up Pick something out get dressed brush your teeth comb your hair Whatever it was throw on a hat put on a coat have you know, glass of water And I would literally get to the point where I get to the front door ready to go out and figure out How am I feeling right now? Like and as I did it every day as often as I could I would get to the point where it became less of a big deal I didn't have as much anticipation And so I would get in the car and get ready to drive and as I would be leaving that's when my anxiety level started to rise so For me it was about I really had to break it down to the smallest possible chunk to get ready to do the task And taking away, you know the anticipation and the fear while I was getting ready to do the task Helped a lot to start to actually tackle the task Did you do you think like you were having the anxiety because a lot of it is or the majority of it is sensations So would you have had the sensations while you were getting ready initially? And then the sensations would just take longer to come in Uh, so yes become like when you get in the car. That's when they now start. That's when they get Yeah, yeah, exactly. So in a way what I was almost doing was pushing it off like instead of It would be difficult to even consider the idea of walking out the door getting in the car Because I would already be in that panic state in a way. Yeah It was very difficult to even open the door and walk out Whereas when I got to the point where I could get dressed comfortably and no I was going out the door and not freak out knowing I was going out the door Yes, it would get to the point where the rise in the the thoughts and this physical sensations would happen once I got in the car It's weird because like we say That you shouldn't try and avoid the sensations and and avoid the symptoms But what you find is because people probably think like I'm going to keep doing this. I'm going to keep feeling that but as you just said the more that you do it The sensations it's not that you have to get used to them. It's that they don't actually come anymore When you become comfortable with doing whatever it is. I mean at first. Yes, I did have to get used to them I just had to yeah deliberately let my heart race and not care about it But after doing that and I would say I want to talk about months, you know after the first few days of doing it It was the symptoms would begin to dissipate not because I was I had ways to make them go away Because I was just getting more comfortable with them and I wasn't giving them a lot of share of mind You know, I think that's probably something that people don't buy into is the fact that Maybe they or I know that I've thought like it the more that you do it You're just going to feel worse you're going to keep doing it and you're always going to feel If you want to go out for dinner, you're always going to feel like this But the reality is that the more that you do it the less you'll feel like that And I think that's what people struggle to Buy into that's you know knowing that there is light at the end of the tunnel Yes, you've just got to actually go through this You've got to make yourself feel worse before you feel better Yeah, and and you have to especially in some of my very early audio only podcasts I tried to stress that a lot like You're right It is you're not resigning yourself to a lifetime of feeling horribly every time you try and go to dinner You'll feel horribly at first then a little less horrible a little less horrible a little less horrible And the key is to just learn to not care how you feel I know we keep saying that and it's it's a hard thing to Verbalize what that really means but For me it got to the point where it's like, okay, I can I can get up I can I would not be losing my shit the minute I got out of bed It you know I would lose my shit when I got in the car But that's fine Then I would literally get to the point where I said, okay, I'm not going to leave this house until I can at least Be calm about the way I feel if that makes any sense Yeah, yeah, so I would get to the front door those first couple of mornings get to the front door And I would I would be a mess and I would have to tell myself like I'm not going to just power through this I'm just going to stand here at the front door and let myself be a mess until I'm comfortable being a mess Yeah, and that's how that's how that got better. And then once I was able to do that You know more quickly when you get in the car without already having been through 10 minutes of terror It became a whole lot easier to drive away and start to work on that now So whatever it is the task that you pick to start on Break it down into the smallest possible thing if the biggest issue You know we'll use cali because she posted yesterday The biggest issue is walking to that traffic light like she did in her video Then I mean she did great, but the goal isn't to get to the light work on on just putting on your shoes without freaking out first And standing at the front door standing on the front step once you get out the door build it Just build it I think one of one of the videos that Resonates with me and that I I'm thinking about right now is when I did the I did a grocery store Right and this this was probably about three years ago It was it was world book day And my daughter needed a fancy dress costume for the day after to go with a book that she was going to buy And this this was when I was in a good place Like I was able to do a lot of things But it was one it was the supermarket that was number five on my list from years ago Yeah, okay, so it was that that exact same place And it was me my dad and my daughter and we just decided one evening or it was the evening She needed the fancy dress costume for the next day. So I said let's just go I didn't really think too much about it because I was in a good place But I I knew that on the way there. I was thinking to myself that it's gonna kick off I'm gonna because I already feel nervous about going here be just be because of memory, I guess Right and then when we got in there like we It's a two-floor supermarket warm-up And we got in there and I was looking around by the entrance for costumes for my daughter and like picking out just John Cena stuff and she was like I am wearing that Wonder Woman and all this kind of crap Yeah, yeah But she was having none of it and then she wanted to go upstairs and then I spent like the next five minutes just walking around the The lower oils not too far from the entrance and just I could feel it and I was like no I ain't going up there And then just With that moment whatever it was that we talked about last week I just went for it went upstairs and had a full blown panic attack up there while we're looking at the books And just I read it out and it was crazy and that's the one I've mentioned before went like after But it's like the calm after that panic It was like 10 minutes of the most intense You feel like you're losing control you've everything The vision starts going the dizziness the jelly legs the heart rates pounding You know that you're over breathing and it's just Intense but I chose I made a decision to just stick it out stood there read it out And once it passed that was when I was able to just go wherever I wanted in the Like I've discussed it before but that's the video That's the like of the exposure thing the one time that I've caught on film where I was brave enough To just ride it out and then you can see the benefit of doing it So that's where I want to get to with doing these tasks is I want to put myself in those positions Yeah, and and be brave enough to just hold Embrace Yeah, which I think is it and you're just you know You're not necessarily fighting and I trying to push it away like I here comes the pain Yeah, no, and I think your experience is probably pretty typical So if you're going to push yourself to a a place where you know, you're going to be uncomfortable Yeah, yeah, you almost have to expect that you might have a panic attack, you know, it's Not my weird probably well at some point in this process It's gonna happen like it was my idea go there It was just like because I was in a good place at the time and able to go for dinner and Go to other shops and stuff We just never went there because it was in a different town Right, but it's 24 hour and this was getting on in the evening. So that was just it was like my idea Let's go there. Let's do didn't even think twice about it until we got like within a mile of it and then it's like But then I did right whether to get out of the car I just got out the car and I just did it I was resigned to the fact that I was going to go in there. Yeah, maybe yeah, I was hoping that there'd be a Perfect fancy dress costume just in the doorway waiting for us. Sure But typically there wasn't You had to go we had to go in. Yeah, but it was good I'm glad that we did because I've got that to look back on and I still I look back on that now sometimes And it's like that's the one moment where I stood firm. I didn't like I weren't tense I just I just carried on doing what I was doing looking at the books and just noticed that This was how I felt there was nothing I could do if I because it in that same supermarket I've run out of there before and like The journey from when you make that decision I'm gonna bail When you make that decision wherever you are in there the journey from there to the door Is probably the worst moment In my life That's from what I can remember of my anxiety feelings and stuff from when I've made a decision to exit to get into the door That is horrific the most harrowing. Yeah. Yeah, and I just thought to myself in that moment like I can either do that End up outside and I know that it'll switch off as soon as I get out of the door Yeah, because it always does So I thought why not just stand and just wait for it to switch off itself and that's exactly what happened Yeah, and then once it did you had full run of the store. You were yeah, yeah, exactly Now you're invincible, you know. Yeah, it was like I'd gone outside But I was still inside it was that same feeling. Sure. I know that I've actually heard Um Well, lydia doesn't mind let I know lydia is listening but she's described to me in the past Being in those situations and she has exited but in a controlled way So another another strategy is something that I know she has done which is is also valid She'll she'll go outside and just reset. So instead of going outside and leaving like, all right, I'm done This I'm beaten by this. I can't do it. I'm out She would retreat from the spot reset and then go back in again Yeah, and you know that that's another thing to do sometimes that's okay, too The goal is to not have to do that. But as you're working, that's perfectly okay, too If you need to step back and take that breather And I think what winds up happening when cooler heads prevail you get out into the parking lot back to your car Suddenly it doesn't seem have you ever noticed that once you've done that you have the regret of having Laughed. Yeah. Yeah, and then suddenly it's like, yeah, what did I run from again? Because now you start to feel better and like wait a minute. What did I do here? So, you know, I did it I did it my son's nativity once so I was sitting pretty much bang in the middle of the school Like in the rows of chairs And it was about 10 minutes in and I just had to bail out of there Because I was getting all the the weird feeling where you just you know that you're sitting still but you feel like you're Yep, yep, there's motion. Sure. And that it was horrible. So I bailed out of there went outside Just stood for about five minutes and then I made my way back in and just stood at the back And like I watched the rest of the thing But that was it just that shows a bit of bravery and knowing that you're not giving up You're not giving up that easily sure and if you if you need to step back for a second and reset that's fine But the key here is Understand that the goal is to feel uncomfortable in the beginning you you have to actually intentionally Be uncomfortable. So if you're going to get on this exposure therapy or they expose your journey with us and play the game along with us Not that it's a game, but you know what I mean the Expect that there's going to be anxiety. There's going to be elevated anxiety. There might be panicked They're you know, but all of those things are normal as you go through this So if you're going to push yourself into the coffee shop where you have historically panicked before and it's been difficult for you to stay there Fully expect that what you have to do is go into that coffee shop and have a panic attack like that That's normal So if I could offer probably one overriding bit of advice is as you're going through these tasks and you're building these behaviors Then you're pushing to that that edge where the anxiety starts to come in Just constantly keep reminding yourself like feeling this way the pounding heart and the dizzy and the jelly legs and the fear And and that that voice inside you this is get the hell out of here You're supposed to feel those things. It's normal like those feelings themselves are not danger That's a normal response to a misperceived danger. There's no danger there But your your brain thinks there is and so your body is just doing normally what it has evolved to do So that feeling the feeling jelly legs and dizzy is as normal a feeling as just as I feel right now standing here Like right now. I'm just standing here talking to you via Skype I don't like I don't just feel normal. However way I feel right now is as normal as when I am having a swing and panic attack There's no there's no difference. It's just this is comfortable and that's not but they're both normal if that makes any sense Yeah, yeah So I mean, so, you know, I think I suppose Sorry, also just like for people that if people do find it too hard and you bail out Don't be too hard on yourself because the fact that you've even tried Is a step forward, isn't it? And next time next time you try you might get a bit more progress So don't be too disheartened if yes, you do have to bail out somewhere and But it's like you said many times get back on the horse get back on the horse exactly, right? And and if you're trying to get to I'm just going to keep using coffee shop as an example Whatever it is for you if you're trying to get to the coffee shop And and just get yourself to the point where you know this is where it starts to get difficult and start working there That's the object. Yeah, start working there and just take it in small chunks and tackle those small chunks And if you just stay at it, I would almost guarantee that if the coffee shop if sitting in the coffee shop And finishing your cup of tea Whatever it is for 15 minutes, whatever your goal is if you were to do that every day for the next week Even multiple times a day if you have the luxury of being able to do it in your schedule I guarantee you it would I'm not going to say you would be sitting there falling asleep because you're so relaxed, but You within a few days that task will not seem so scary anymore and you'll you'll be able to do it So This is how it works I mean it was only like a couple of years ago that I was I just couldn't go into my local shop Sure like I had a panic attack while I was at the till Freaked out, but I didn't run out of there. I got my change and then I ran out of So I did I did what I needed to do, but I bailed but then for like the next three four months It wasn't even an option that I was going to attempt to do it again And it took it literally took me Like because the shop was only like a five minute walk But I had to drive to the shop and I stood outside the shop for about 10 minutes with my lad Just waiting like I could and like I'm literally as far away from my screen as I was from the shop door Just standing there and I was fine But I knew that if I crossed that line That was the point of no return Yes, and I literally stood there for like 10 minutes, but then I went and did it And everything was fine, but it's just Madness I have had that exact experience. Yes. I have had that exact experience. I've had that experience standing at my front door When you think like one foot in that direction, right? I remember very clearly this really wasn't this was one of those unplanned exposures I could go back to when yeah, things were really bad for me. It was snowing It was in the winter everything all the bad stuff happened in the winter for me I didn't like get to do exposure when it was 80 degrees out in sunny, you know Fairly, it's November now. I know winter's coming winter is coming so But I remember very clearly it was a similar situation. It was a business related thing in the middle of the day But and we were having heavy snow So I didn't nobody was in my office like it was fine Nobody was going to get to the office because it was snowing very heavily We didn't necessarily have to be there the business runs Remotely even if we're not sitting in the same place. So that's fine I'm not going to make people drive in in the snow and something happened And somebody had to go there and that somebody was going to be me I wasn't going to you know, like I just had that thing in me that's like, I'm going to freaking do this And I remember being dressed and standing at my front door with the inside door open So it's just the glass door Just looking out that glass, you know Just on the other side of this this thin pane of glass is sheer terror and my heart pounding and Like knowing that I had this gargantuan task in front of me get out this door Get in that car drives, you know, well it was more than seven minutes because it was heavy snow Go there do what needs to be done get home. It seemed so insurmountable I probably spent an hour and a half Going back and forth to that door and just looking and looking at the door is the door is the resignation It's like that's where you know Yep, this is it. Like if I go out this door and you know, logically, you know, I could go out the door come back in the door But yeah, I don't know. That's not the way it worked at the time But these sort of feelings when you stand like you said, you know, 18 inches from the shop door And I stand with my nose pressed up against the glass and then my front door like for an hour and a half Thinking about walking outside that is normal. That is a normal part of this process So if you have to spend the first day or two with your nose pressed against the glass figuratively speaking for whatever your task is Okay, that's okay. You know, that's part of it too. So every little advancement toward the goal counts Everyone counts. So don't no matter how small the victory is It's a victory. So think of it that way too It is because because like the the going for breakfast thing that we've done a couple of times recently That's I try and break that down into smaller steps because it's not just going like going to sit and eat Right, like the the journey to get to the place is a part And then you've got the journey from when you get out of the car to walk in the place because that can be Anxiety inducing like walking into a building And then and then you've got the finding a seat if there's any other people there Then you've got the sitting and actually eating and trying to be comfortable Then you've got to walk out of there and then you've got to drive home. So like It seems like a multitude of tasks just in one thing But recently it's just been like I've not really thought about it until after I've done it So that's that's nice. Yeah I've still been feeling anxiety doing pretty much anything apart from the other day And I think Well, when you talk about like the going to breakfast thing and you break it down until those tasks Getting there sitting waiting ordering eating waiting for the to pay the bill and blah blah blah And then getting home at some point for me I know and everybody's different but for me in all of my exposures where they were planned or unplanned There was the going uphill part The hardest part and then there was the going downhill part, which was still dicey because I would you'd still have the residual Bad feelings But it was a whole lot easier driving home than it was driving away from home a whole lot easier When you go to eat the the I would say then the peak is probably in the moment that you've ordered When you're waiting for the food to arrive. So that's all like me and my wife We went out for lunch. It was probably 12 months ago. But that's how often we go I can remember the one that we did 12 months ago But like I was sitting there and we probably sat there for about 20 minutes while I was just um in an hour in Shall we actually order? Because you know at that point when you've ordered Point of return Exactly. Yeah, so that's the point and then as soon as it arrives you can chuck it in your bag and like it if you need to Right, right Or or maybe and I think you're probably right in that eating out exposure. That's probably true. That's the point So the downhill comes Once the food arrives exactly even if you don't you know chuck it in a bag and run Yeah, you know that now you're on the downhill side of this. I'm going to eat. We're going to pay I'm going to leave like yeah, I got it and and some of the you know that in It was Undetermined thing goes away like I control this now Yeah, yeah in the word and believe me. I have been there in the worst case like this is probably about a 40 dollar bill I can just leave 60 to be safe and run out there or like Like if I had to I could do this so I get it. I totally get it So I I would think you know so hopefully we've given you if you're listening at this point or watching Some insight as to what it felt like for billy would have felt like for me Hmm Just you know go back to the last episode Listen to you know how ways to find that spark find your spark make put something on your list for this the next 30 days Get in the group discuss it with people get some support and just start taking tiny steps forward Whatever it happens to be and you know what sometimes you're surprised not every step is tiny I think when I watched Callie yesterday and Callie. I'm sorry. I keep talking about you But when I watched her yesterday, I think she seemed surprised that like wow, this isn't how come this is so easy for me And sometimes you have those days or like wow, okay, this is a lot easier than I thought it would be today But then the next day it maybe you feel like crap again. So that's probably another thing we should mention I mean, I know you've had huge victories. I've seen you do If yeah, if somebody if somebody wants to see what it's like. I did three Tasks I did the same task three days on the truck So go back and watch those videos. I'll perhaps link those in the description like the first day I went and I just walked the dog around the block Probably 10 minute walk 15 minute walk first day absolutely fine Nothing apart from a bit of anticipation at the start. Yeah And then like the second day I was feeling good about it But when I got halfway I made a comment on the first day that when I reached the halfway point I made a comment and said like I'm the furthest away from home now But it didn't spark anything but on the second day that I did it when I reached that same point I started feeling really Really dodgy and had a panic on the way home And then it set up the third day because I I'd already said that I was going to do three days on the truck regardless So the third day all I could think about was how bad I felt on the second. So it was perfect But then I went and did it on the third day and it was even easier. I think than the first day But it was just crazy like You do the first day and like you just said Callie felt fantastic But then on the second day when I did it It was horrendous Yeah, the key point was that I went and did it again on the third day. Yeah, I probably should have done it at four from fifth and sixth, but You know, I'm not like Well, I think that's yeah. Well, then you pick something different boredom happens sometimes Like, you know, sometimes it makes sense where well, maybe you got to work on two or three things at the same time Because you can get bored work on one that that's normal. We get human beings to get bored I think the other thing to keep in mind as you go through this is um What is oh, it's the led on my microphone. It's blue light on my hand. Anyway, um Well, once I'm happening sometimes It's it's never straight line. So if you look it's like the stock market, you know If you look at the big picture of the u.s. Stock market over the last 120 years It's one giant upward, you know the stock market. It just keeps going up over time But when you just focus in on a day in a given day, you know between 10 a.m. And 11 a.m. You may have lost a hundred dollars, you know, but in the big picture It's an upward trend and that's the way this works too. So Monday might be awesome for you Tuesday might not be so awesome But just understand that that's supposed to happen also Like it's not a steady linear progression just because Monday is was great doesn't mean Tuesday's going to be even greater than that Tuesday might be horrible But on the big picture you might look and say that the progress I made between Monday and Saturday is it's not I'm on an upward trend. Yeah, so that's that's where you kind of have to be I was just like I'm flashing for some reason. I see that I don't know man. Aliens taking over so Should we we have a couple questions we want to answer we were talking about before we went on Why am I? I don't know. I could see it though. It's like what's going on there like you're in a disco I've got my salt lamp on nice. Are you feeling better now? Your pink pink overlay and salt lamp Yeah You know what I um, what you're doing that. I know we were talking about we did get one question We both got the question Yes, I was going to read it out. Go ahead. Did you find it? Yes, bob bob mcdougalberry. Yep If you believe you have an issue like heart problems, is it possible to imagine symptoms like chest pain? Uh And actually bob asked a similar question on my channel about chest pain Evidently it's it's his hardest It's his hardest, uh, you know, um, thank I'm sorry. It's hardest symptom to deal with so Is it possible to imagine it? I don't I'm not going to say that you're imagine Yeah, I hear that. I'll get it wrong. I'm thinking this is wrong. Get it wrong. Um I think you you don't know if you imagine that you have that pain if you feel the but you know if you feel the pain I think yeah, yeah, yeah, so I don't think you're imagining that you're having pain What you are imagining is why you're having a heart problem, right exactly. Yeah, so And sooner or later because I know that bob had mentioned in the comment on my channel that it's like It's the bane of his existence this chest painting. It's the one thing he can't seem to just get past and accept it and I think Just eat like that's going to be the answer to this like we were talking about the article Which is talking about too like Sooner or later, there's no trick like Yeah, yeah, I think that the key is in the question if you If you believe you have an issue like heart problems, is it possible to imagine symptoms? So let's if you believe you have chest pain, is it possible to imagine you have a heart problem? That's how we should reframe the question the other way, right? Yeah, yeah, right Right, you know that's true. You're not imagining the chest pain. You're imagining the underlying problem Exactly because you're interpreting that chest painting correctly I spent a tremendous amount of time for probably the better part of a year or two. I remember sitting Sitting in my office and having people in the office with me Like actually asking me several times like is everything okay because in I wasn't even aware that I was doing it I was constantly poking and prodding here right because of the pain and the tightness and in the end There's you know, I'm told thank god. I've never had a heart attack and maybe somebody's listening has Which would be great, but you know, I am told over and over that you that is pain that you cannot miss When you know, the pain from a heart attack is a different animal altogether so But I would spend all my time poking prodding prod Massaging and you know just constantly playing Because I was focused on it all the time and honestly what it really came down to is the pain for me It was just muscular because I was constantly my shoulders were hunched I was I was constantly in a state of tension. So after a while Yes, even the the insertion point here where the pectorals insert at the sternum was just sore all the time because I was constantly flexed you know, so That was a thing and that that's could be where that pain comes from but after a while it just I used to worry that there was something wrong. But then after a while it's like, well, like I'm still walking around here They're like Nobody walks around every day for six months with chest pain because they're having a heart attack So yeah, it's never been a major issue for me. I don't know. Yeah, I could probably relate to bob. Maybe more than you cut on that Yeah, I remember you used to talk about it My thing is always passing out. That's the just Yeah, collapsing. Yeah, it's never it's never happened Right, it's never happened. So, you know, bob, you've never had you haven't had a heart attack, you know So, yeah, at some point even just math has to become your friend. Like I've felt this 700 times It's never I thought you said meth then math would be like what? I wouldn't recommend that meth become your friend math m-a-t-h Here's me getting off the caffeine On the math. No wonder he's doing all right. I'm sleeping so much better now that I'm on math I don't feel bloated Uh good methamphetamine jokes in the podcast. We're doing good So, um, I don't know bob. I don't think I don't know if we've had to give you a super answer to the question You're not imagine. I'll give you an answer and it was from Donna in the facebook group I don't know if this was posted on the same comment, but it was a response to something And she said health anxiety is evil But her coach says treat it as anxiety until you know different and different will eventually present itself That's true And you know we talked last week about like yeah, what's the point donna? That's a really good comment and it's good advice So treat it as anxiety and if it isn't Then you'll deal with it when it turns out to not be But but not we talked this is exactly how we started last week's episode Like if you are afraid that you are having a heart attack. Well, what good is sitting on your sofa? That's not stopping you from having that heart attack. Is it? Yeah, yeah You know if you believe you have cancer sitting on the sofa is not curing that cancer So just act as get busy living get busy living until your body actually tells you otherwise and Trust that you know if it's felt like this every freaking day for the last year odds are there really is nothing wrong with you so There you go. So you're not imagining the symptom, but you're you're interpreting get an imagining underlying causes that seem to not be there Yes, I would say that's the answer um I know I had in the group my friend codie who uh Cody's a good dude. Where's codie's thing? Here we go. Cody is talking about um I've been panic attack free for three days now. That's good. Cody. It's not the goal. Remember, that's not the goal But anyway, but I'll be honest panic attacks. Don't bother me. They are over fairly quick I know to calm myself down very good The problem is I have the constant lightweight anxiety symptoms that are always around so that generalize background anxiety, right? Um, I always feel lightheaded and I have the butterfly feeling in my upper abdomen I can absolutely relate to that Um, those were the last symptoms to go away from me. I thought I'd just make a point. Go ahead. It's not constant Ah, very good. It's probably not constant. Actually, he says if I can read along I'm sorry. No at some point. He says I think it was in the comments somewhere Along with some weird feeling sinus stuff and vision problems that seem to get worse if I move around too much I can completely relate to all of those feelings because I dealt with them quite often Um, and I believe that at some point Cody says he even mentions like, uh Let's see here I normally feel better when I get home and relax indicator that it's not constant. He also made a point at which point something about Oh, okay. Okay. Uh, Cody. Yeah, he says the one thing that validates that this is That the fact that it's just anxiety is that um, if he has a couple of beers, he feels normal Okay, you know, and he's and and he's smart. He's trying not to make that a habit He's not self-medicating with alcohol, which is which is a thing. Yeah, it could be a thing, but Choose meth. So choose meth I'm endorsing methamphetamine somehow. I'm like I'm the heisenberg of anxiety. Um, that tickles me a big bad fan here. So the uh, I think It's not constant. You probably just answered that question bill But billy just said it's not constant I made I made a video and I think the question I was asking You know, am I the only person that feels like this 24 seven I mentioned it before but then when I watched it like a couple of days later and I felt better I answered my own question. Yeah It's it never lasts like it might feel like it when you're in the moment, but it does it passes It always passes right And and there are probably moments throughout the day When you suddenly don't notice and it's when you get out of your own head So for cody, maybe he has a beer or two and of course the alcohol is a cns depressant It's it's sort of like taking a benzo in a way. It'll tranquilize you to a certain extent and the symptoms go away Because his body is physically kind of dampened a little bit. It makes sense But there are also times for me. I know when I would suddenly realize like, oh wait I just got involved with this task Maybe I was writing code or I was whatever listening to music or something I would get out of my head for two minutes five minutes ten minutes And suddenly realize like holy cow. I I don't feel dizzy or I just went through 10 minutes without noticing that I was dizzy so Maybe the way to deal with that is to really notice that thing. So cody answered question I had a weird one the other night. It was like a couple of nights ago and I felt dizzy Yeah, but I it didn't actually Register in my head until I sat back down and thought about it And like usually when that happens, I think I was just walking from like the kitchen to the lounge to go and sit down Right, and I just had one of those Split second I don't know disorientated feelings And usually that would trigger something then I'd start questioning and the snowball Yep But it didn't it didn't until I sat down and then thought to myself holy crap I just had one of those Feelings, but I didn't actually respond to it and I'm still not now. I'm just actually Recognizing that it's just happened. Sure. So weird. I don't know what the is going on with me It's positive though. That's very positive. That's very positive. Yeah, sure. That's really good So I think if you're struggling with that and I think um I think we keep talking about the facebook group but christine christine young who's now in the group Yes, christine to love your if you're watching this love your videos christine talks a lot about generalized anxiety disorder Which is that constant background? Anxiety that you can't seem to shake that that's kind of her issue and her approach is exactly what it should be She's just getting out there and you know, well, I feel this way, but I'm going to do these things anyway Yeah, yeah So the best advice when you have like, okay, you might not be afraid of panic But you still have those nagging symptoms that stay with you You have to treat it the same way that you did the panic and just Don't sit on the sofa because you're dizzy get out and do what you want to do anyway Yeah, yeah, and I mean believe me even as even these days it could happen. I could think of a time I'd be an example. It's probably six or eight months ago I was like was working on like a thermostat like just around the house And I was having the worst day of just like dizziness and disorientation that lightheaded Depersonalized feeling and I remember thinking like all I want to do is just lay on the sofa right now I don't want I don't want to replace the stupid thermostat. Whatever the hell I was working on But it was just like, you know what I'm gonna do it anyway And I just had to go a little slower than I normally would have maybe I had to read the directions instead of Not reading directions because I never read the directions But so I had to go a little bit slower and be a little bit more deliberately Deliberate in my actions But I'm not going to say that the dizziness went away because I was changing the set But I changed the thermostat. I put the tools away. I did what I had to do. I answered some emails I just kept going And it didn't turn into because when I for me if I paid a lot of mind and I start All right, I'm not gonna I'm not feeling well today. I better just lay in bed or just stay at home That's when I can start to go on the down slide So, you know, whatever that symptom is that just keep going It doesn't just ignore it the best you can and and it's at least this one person for Cody It sounds like you might be able to do that. You're a little further ahead of the game. So that's good. Yeah. Yeah I just realized I've got to take my dad to hospital on Friday. So that's my task. All right. Well, that's something That's something but I can already do that. You've been doing this weird. It's weird Like that's 25 mile away. Yeah motorways and dual carriageways and big roads and city center How odd and like I'm going to a hospital that's jam-packed with people Cars although I probably won't get out of the car. Maybe I will. I don't know. So why why why can I do that? It's odd I guess you take take me out of that car seat and stick me on a bench 50 yards away. Yeah, and it's a totally different ballgame. Maybe that's what I'll do Right, there's a lot of insight there. So you got to take you back to the hospital on Friday You don't have a problem driving him there and you're okay as long as sitting in the car Like what what makes the car any safer than the bench nothing? Yeah, exactly Nothing, so maybe that's the task Maybe I'll be sitting on the bench get out and sit on a bench. Right exactly a way for him to come out Or give yourself a time frame you're sitting in the bench for 10 minutes, whatever it is Yeah, that's a good task and then you'll be helping your dad at the same time. So it's not to love All right Well, instead of doing the hour marathon or 50 minutes, that's probably That's all I've got a point to make haven't I about uh, Louie Theroux. Yes, that was good Documentary that I watched the other day and it it was all about anorexia And I was sitting there watching it with my wife and my daughter My mrs. Has issues with food and that so she was interested my daughter was just interested my daughter's scared of Thin people which is really odd. I don't know We all have our things. It's okay. Yeah, I don't know But I was watching it and I was just sitting there thinking like this the simplest solution to anorexia is just eat and that's what probably Well, so many of the people that would have been watching that were just like just freaking have a sum We're just something cured and then I was thinking like stick that in my mind agriphobia Just go outside social anxiety. Just go and sit in a crowded room and people just don't understand that As easy as it is and like I was sitting there thinking to myself Just eat that would Obviously help with your anorexia But when you're not in that position and when you don't understand what it feels like Yes The simplest answer is the hardest freaking answer And it was just so weird that I was able to sit there and sort of relate that back to my own experience But anorexia the simple answer is just eat just eat But that that's the hardest freaking thing that somebody with anorexia can do otherwise It wouldn't be a problem, would it? I think that's what a lot of people actually think with when it comes to mental health is like Just just eat just go outside. Just just doing yeah, yeah Stop looking at yourself in the mirror. I stopped being so down, you know The simplest answer, but it's just never the answer No, it's not but I think it really points out that thing that we've we even said early on and I've said before like it's The fear is real So like yeah For somebody who has you know that issue with food and they don't want to eat even though they're obviously too thin It's yeah, yeah That's a real issue. They don't see themselves when they look that person looks in the mirror He or she does not see themselves as too thin. They see something different. So it's real to them Just the same way as for the agrophobic, you know walking out that door That the fear is every bit as real as somebody having a gun pointed directly at your nose It's the same the fear is exactly As crazy. Yeah, it's crazy how it translates across so many different disorders. Yeah But people that haven't experienced it Have no idea what it's like So it's it must be so difficult like for them to understand. Yeah, like for our partners wives friends and that When I sat and watched that and I myself and I suffer with mental health and I'm sitting there thinking just eat Yeah, then what must people that don't suffer with mental health issues think about the way that we're feeling And that's why I mean we've talked about this and I'm sure we will again Sometimes it bothers me when I hear that whole awareness thing like we need to wear Yeah, yeah, yeah, I go why I mean what you're It's not I mean, you know what when the people who are important in your life It would be good for them to at least have some understanding So what I would you know, I say this all the time like You know your wife your girlfriend whoever They should try to understand that the fear that you're feeling is is every bit is real as fear that they would fear Jumping on a building, you know They just don't understand why you feel the fear, but if they can understand that the fear is real They may have a better understanding of of your behavior, but we should be really careful about wanting to be accommodated So awareness and understanding is great to want that But only in so far as it makes the people in our lives Understand what we're going through and prop us up as opposed to accommodate us like it's okay. I won't make awareness Awareness is pointless I I tend to agree like awareness isn't because awareness by itself is just saying please accommodate me And in our situation the things that we talk about I do not believe that they need to be accommodated I just don't And and if that puts you at odds with me in this situation, then you're probably not The audience for me at least I won't speak for billy But you know if you truly feel that this is your lot in life And it's never going to change and you want the world to accommodate the fact that you are afraid to go to the supermarket Well, I wouldn't be watching right. I don't know what to say about that I think I don't know whether I said it or whether I wrote in a blog or I planned it for a video, but like the awareness thing like raising awareness about broken legs But nobody would ever do that and they don't want to know what type of fracture it is. No, what's the point? Right, what's the point? It doesn't matter and I think again awareness If you're just asking for awareness, you're asking for accommodation to a certain extent Yeah, you know and if we're asking for awareness of something that can't be cured It's a true disease of some kind, which is another thing. I'm tired of hearing about how this is a disease It's it's it's a cognitive malfunction. It is a disorder. I will give it that label, but I'm not calling it a disease I'm not calling you didn't have this is not a disease It's not an affliction. It's it's a learning Malfunction. It's a cognitive disorder. There may be some chemical aspect to it But anyway, awareness is fine when you have something that's physiologically wrong with you that cannot be cured With known medical technology and you do need some special accommodation. Then I'm all for awareness I'm all for that But I'm not for awareness when it comes to anxiety and agoraphobia and that sort of stuff. I'm just not I don't think it helps us. It hurts us Yeah, I agree. Yeah, understand what I'm going through and cheer me on Do that for me, please. Although I do ask to raise awareness on twitter, but that's just to get more false Yeah, you're honest to a fault, mr cross Just eat just eat damn it All right, 56 minutes. Let's wrap it up Let's do it All right, I don't know what we're going to talk about next episode because we never do we kind of well Hopefully I will have a report back on my trip to the hospital. Yes, I'll give something to go on and hopefully other people have Shared shared their task and maybe whether they've taken any steps towards getting there or not You know, it'll be this it'll be the seventh when this goes on. So the next video will be the 14th So hopefully by then. Yeah, we'll see. We should all be making progress. Yeah. Yeah, that's true I'll throw one more. I'm gonna throw two more things out there. Callie specifically I know Callie. I said Callie a hundred times, but she cannot wait for the episode of antidepressants And I keep getting that question. We're gonna do that at some point We might have a comment on mine saying that they've never heard me mention medications Yeah, I've been steering clear from it because of my bias, but It's our podcast. So I guess our biases go Yeah, we'll we'll do it. We'll have to do it either. We'll do one together or maybe I'll just do a couple on my own But we'll take a sleeping pill before we will We will talk about that at some point it is part of this discussion So I'm not ignoring it and the last thing I'm going to say I'm going to direct this at one person I'm not going to say her name A specific young lady in the uk who used to live with her son who I think is now off to college Who was with us back in the old days with short black hair. You know what I'm talking about? Yes If you're watching Get out and do something because I know that you think you can't but I am always going to think that you can So I'm not going to mention the name, but please if you're watching do do something and we we're going to cheer you on I know 100 right. I've tried to I've tried to reach out before I know I know I'm still going to root that person on no matter what so 100% if you're watching you have a cheerleading section waiting for you We're here. There you go. I'll bring the pom poms That's not a good look for you. I'm just saying I haven't seen it. I haven't had the pleasure of seeing that follow me on instagram. I have to wash my eyes. Um All right dudes, thanks for coming by I guess we're going to see you next week Get out there and do something productive and share with us We'll see you there. See you next time