 Next talk is by Holger, one of three regional contacts for Burning Man and together with Helger, he works for Berlin Burner and will tell us about events from Burning Man. If you have any questions, please put them in the ROC channel or use Twitter or Mastradon and use the hashtag chaos zone. And we will answer questions at the end of this talk. Have a great talk. And thank you for listening to the German translation made by Attilaie and me Franz T. Hello. We are working with Burning or at Burning Man for a while now and I wanted to talk about events because we are on an event here. And yes, what is Burning Man? I know Burning Man since I was 35. Congress I know since age 16, but Burning Man, the culture of Burning Man involved me more and filled my whole private life part of family. Do you also want to say something? It led to me involving my wife. So, Gaila, what are we talking about? First of all, those who do not know Burning Man or what's special about Burning Man, we have a small introduction. To move from the large picture to the small details. And if I'm interested in that and if I want to create events like that, what can I think about? And if we had a live audience, I would love to know how that is realized with camp and congress. Because I think there are similar structures here and there and all the non-profit organizations, the Feina is something we can learn from one another. So, first of all, what's Burning Man? It's a festival with a lot of people, 78,000 people at the last real one during the pandemic. It happened digitally. It's about culture and community. It was created in San Francisco on the beach at a small event and it grew and grew, had to move away from San Francisco because 1,500 people were too many for the police, especially when they had fire around. And then they moved to the Black Rock Desert in Nevada, six hours away from San Fran. In the beginning, it started from the counterculture, from Silicon Valley, because it's not that far away and many people were looking for opportunities to be creative. And they have ideas about custom clothing and music and large parties, but also small life stages and a lot of art you can interact with or you should interact with. But on the other hand Burning Man is even more. First of all, it's a temporary city with a lot of art pieces that the event itself takes a week, but a building or a teardown is three to four weeks before and after. And the end, the complete town needs to be gone. It's a protected area and it needs to be to look exactly afterwards as it does before, but it also is part of the start-up scenes of the West Coast. And that's something we were looking into here in Berlin together with the sea base, the hacker space in Berlin. But we are looking in a long-term perspective and we want to have it CO2 neutral. Many people need to travel there, we burn a lot of things and that's starting to become a problem with the climate change and the diversity in the US is something that's a focus. There are very few people from an Asian background or people of color are very few there. Many people think about it all year long, what they can do there, how it will be, what they can prepare after the Burning Man is before the Burning Man, but also in their area they think about with whom can they work together and what can they create. Leaving out Trace is an important point, the desert is biologically dead, but in the end it should look exactly like it did before and the government looks at it. Everything is clean, thousands of volunteers go through it with a comb. Next is no advertisement, there is nothing to buy there and DJs might be flyed in by the camps, but they also mustn't advertise by being there. Otherwise they are not allowed to come back. Burning Man is very strict about it because in the capitalist society you always have to work against people who try to use it with capitalism. That's quite easy in the music area. The main part is that everything that happens there should lead to people to work together, to be in contact with each other. The camps that people think about, everything that people bring there, they do that not for themselves, but they do so to get an experience with others. It's exactly the same with the art pieces, they are interactive, so you can't just look at it and say, oh that's nice, but some things only work by people being around, by people touching it, by climbing on it. Interesting to me at least it is not the art term for which it's for paying. In every performance, in the theater or every piece it's the question how many tickets can we sell or can we have a good turnover with the money of the sale of the art project. For Burning Man we try that it's different. If you have an idea you can work with others to express that idea, to express it as good as possible. It's not something you can put on a wall, hang on a wall, but there are a lot of wood structures and they are just burned down. That's an attractive way to be creative. What can I do, what experience do I have, how can I work with others, and then it's okay, it's done. You don't have to keep it. It's two hours away from the monastery, usually it's hard to get there and hard to come back. There are only toilets and streets from the organizers, but if you need power or water or used water and everything, you have to bring yourself. It's like going anywhere in the desert, there's no infrastructure, you need to bring everything. And something that also happens, especially in the beginning, it's on public ground and it's on federal land and the police is not outside, but on the event. Usually there are 200 policemen there. It's a freedom that's unknown to the United States, but it's still checked by the police, but there are 200 policemen and many more attendees. And I have never seen a policeman or had never contact with a policeman, but there are police cars driving around. A couple of additional examples. The image on the left is coming from the generator. It's a large maker space in Reno. It's the old version, but because they had to move some time ago and they have a new space again in Reno and some large scale projects for people who don't happen to have a space in San Francisco. It's a great space close to the area where Burning Man happens. You can build large art projects there. And there is the request within the culture to create art or be art. That's part of the image on the top right. It's the idea to look different, to express yourself optically in a different way. And on the right area, the sonic driveway, it's dark in the desert at night and light is important and we have more and more LED art structures. And many people light up their bicycles and there is also some critique sometimes because it looks very... Between changing your bike, designing your bike and having a great looking bike, they're different. Back to the first picture. This is Burning Bang, like what it looks like normally. This year, it didn't take place, but people and numbers is between 1,500. They individually organized themselves through Google Maps and they did something similar. It was called the Renegade Burn. Originally Burning Man was an independent union of people and only through departments and tests that have happened. It found certain rules that are relevant today and those are annoying for people who love freedom. So this is really interesting what it's going to look like next year. Which elements are... Which conclusions are going to be drawn? But usually in the city, in this three-quarter circle, that's where the events take place. They make the stages right next to their tents, not just far away. In the open area, in the center, but also on the left side, that's where the art pieces are put up. They have far away from each other, they have a lot of space. There's lots of events, 350 art pieces. You can only experience a small part of it, which is pretty sad, but it's also really interesting because it's a very individual experience. This whole thing is based on the tent principles. We're going to the border, we're getting to the limits of the expansion to put culture into the world. The founders have sat down and formulated some of these. Some of them are more important, some of them are less for an event. They're open for everyone, that's the first point. It references, even strangers are welcome, those that are there for the first time. Sometimes there's space issues. You can only give out a certain amount of tickets. Gifting is a very important principle. Everyone brings along what they need and also other things to be safe, but they can also lend things to others. There's dozens of bars that are run with gifted alcohols that are given by the people. If someone doesn't want to open a bar, they can take a bottle along and hand it in. That's for alcohol drinking people. Also the decommodification, this is a strange term. It's not about giving something a price tag to make it your own and not to have some advertisement and also for this event in a commercial context. I wouldn't want to do this presentation, but now here, in terms of the Congress, out of my point of view, it makes sense. Self-determination, self-responsibility, not to be dependent on others. You can't buy anything there, so you need to bring your stuff along to survive for a week. All of these things, we're doing those at our own events as well. Some of them, or at least almost all of them. We want to give this impression to the world. We want to show what we want to show. You can just run around. It's fine. But you can also see what a strange person, what costume people are behind. You have to see what you share so that you don't overstep and disturb others. Common, working together, a lot of things are done together, all of those workshops, the things that exist, a lot of things are done. And to last a community work through the entire year. Responsibility for the people that are around you, but also for your neighbors, especially when it's about music, at least in very densely populated Germany. If you do a lot of music, don't leave a trace. We talked already about this. Maybe you should even leave it cleaner than you found it. We also cleaned it with big magnets. It was full of screws and other metal pieces. Some of them during the events, we managed to dispose of them. Don't actively take parts. Don't let others do your job. Independence, the more you're involved, don't retract behind some barriers, behind your phone, don't hide. You can't catch up on the things that you miss. It's just happening in the moment. You can't experience them later. Now, once again, a couple of pictures to art pieces and also self-made things. They can be very small, like on the top and high corner. What's there is, you only notice what's there if you actually open the suitcase there. You can see what a camp, what they did as a bar or as a workroom space. They put together this. What's also interesting is to find out how can you do things so that people have an experience that they haven't expected before. There's also a book that I think is very interesting in this contest out of the philosophic Benjamin Wachs. I don't know its name. It's going to be on the link list. Turn your life into art. It's also about interesting decorations for one thing. But for the whole, out of the theatric elements, you can make something that people say, wow, this is something I didn't even expect. This really blew me away. I think this is very well expressed in the book. I didn't read it all the way to the end, but as far as I've read it, I had this feeling there's a lot in there about events, whether that's camp and assembly or a whole event. You can really take away a lot from it. Now, an example that we did. This is an art project by the German burner community in 2016. The German Guild. It's an elaborated rule. The Americans love regional things. We did it as 25 people. It's an official project. We received a promotion and also donations through our community. We did a lot of things. We sat together for months. We prepared decoration. We discussed this. Signs. We built a furniture at the scene. We prepared them out of wood. So there was some support from some of our artists. They did it with a laser cut. They cut signs. What was the topic of this project? Just to say that Germans did a workshop. We drew a number and we made a new word for a new rule. For example, always weird stuff and people have... ...ruled the dice and we stamped them in fractured... ...and they stamped that on laser-cut parts of folders... ...and other things from cardboard. In the end, they moved to a judge. They were confirmed that they did everything in the proper way. It was a lot of fun to play with that. We had large dice and small dice. We had a lot of rules, but they were supposed to be broken. People wore robes, but they were from a different type of fabric than usually. So it was very interesting and had a lot of fun. Let's move to the central subject of it, regional network. That's the beginning of Burning Man and I'm part of it. There are around 250 regional areas around the world. A lot of those are in the US, but there are five from Germany. Burning Man cannot grow anymore because everybody has to move in to Lane Road. We noticed quite early how we can transport everything. People there were inspired, moved it into their area... ...and brought it back home and tried to create something new. First of all, organizing to move there, but the movement in Europe is quite large. We have a conference once a year for all the local contacts... ...and everybody who takes care of something comes together. The first of those conferences happened in the sea base. That's where I got to meet the sea base. There are larger events in Spain with 2,300 borderlands in Scandinavia for similar size. In most areas of Europe and also some other parts... ...for example, the Africa Burn in South Africa or Crème-Bûlée in France... ...the Schoenberg and Imaginarium in the Czech Republic... ...where the sheep sleep in the Netherlands. Afterwards, or in between, there are party events for one night. So, decompression events in London and Amsterdam and some other spaces. There are a lot of things you can participate without having to fly there. In Germany, we have, in the last... ...once the geeds burn, they have their own fine. A thousand people participated this year. They tested daily. Hamburg, the burning bear. It's a... It's in the winter and similar to Hamburg, the winter events are usually... ...they are catering, there is a central food participation... ...because you can't have a lot of people just cooking on their own... ...with a camping cooker in front of their tents... ...and we don't want people to be outside in January... ...we don't know the weather and if the weather is bad... ...and you are responsible for the participants. And perhaps there is a new event close to Leipzig... ...and we are trying to prepare for that. So, what else can be done? If you are interested in it, what can you do to create something like that? People who are participant in chaos organization events... ...they know about it and they are about to start sleeping now. They would do the same, start with a local meeting. We are meeting until 2013 and we are in pubs... ...and once a month we had some spaghetti eating at somebody's place... ...and there are afternoons, afternoons where you can work... ...with electronics and mostly fabric... ...and build things that are helpful in such areas. Just improve stuff. Prepare customers for next stage. You know, you start in small and see what ideas grow out of it. You start in a small... ...and especially if you are in an area where there is no strong community... ...you sometimes have to bring your own idea because small events... ...well, sometimes just one or two people arrive... ...and sometimes no one arrives, but in my opinion usually that helps... ...or it helps to have it regularly, that people know it's Wednesday afternoon... ...so one option where we can go now is to go to the burner meet-up. And it's also great if you go to existing events and take organization events... ...perhaps in one area or in the central organ... ...because that way you get to know people internationally... ...and that is really helpful to create these structures... ...or to get to know all the structures. I happen to know that one of the people from Kiezbern... ...he started at nowhere where he participated in the camp... ...and took those ideas and brought it to Europe... ...to Berlin where he wanted to create his own event. If you bring people together for long enough... ...there is a critical mass and people trust each other in that community. They know each other and like each other... ...and that helps or simplifies the starting of your own projects... ...your own meeting and your own events. And it's always important that you have a good time yourself. You probably will learn things you wouldn't have learned otherwise... ...and I miss something here. Sometimes you also leave your personal comfort zone... ...and you start holding presentations and me as... ...it's a long way I have moved through the time. Something you have to remember and it's quite interesting. Don't do this for money even without travelling. That means you have to bring a lot of ideas and interest... ...and of course time. If you fight for your existence it's probably quite hard... ...but if you have the opportunity to do stuff... ...then that's a great option. The large events, nowhere or Africa burn... ...they usually have a paid core crew... ...because 3500 person event is something you can do... ...completely voluntarily or only with volunteer people. How do you get there if you want to create your own event? When we notice the organizational structures... ...ideally fine where possible non-profit organization... ...you should prepare that in advance. Even if the event itself isn't that concrete... ...to create an event takes some time, especially now... ...and when you discuss how to write the rules... ...and all the regulations that exist especially in Germany... ...you have to learn that and you should prepare that long in advance... ...and get the appropriate courses online... ...and talk with people who know about it. It took more than two years for us until... ...but one year in between we did nothing... ...because we were uninterested in all this organization stuff... ...but it was very helpful afterwards. So you have to think about it and keep in mind on time... ...an event like Keatsburn takes half a year... ...for the first time probably longer. So plan ahead. Next step is to find a location. Where do you do that? How large do you expect it to be? Or how large do you trust yourself to create it? And where is space to do so? We have a cloister for example, we have buildings we can use... ...and so we are independent of the weather, but on the other hand... ...there are some decisions taken away by the location. On the other hand Keatsburn is also used by using an area called Freiland... ...and it's a former gravel digging area and it's green... ...and some lakes and some hills and so on. It's a completely different event. The less there is, the more people can bring, the more freedoms you have. We always have to think about neighbors and so on, but... ...and there are different ways to create a team or the organizational team. Burning Bear for example, we have a fixed team that fits in a living room with 15 people... ...and there were different small changes in the preparation for each team. The next time some did one thing instead of the others, sometimes organizing the volunteers... ...the next time, for example, transportation. With Keatsburn they have different subjects. That's a large team, you can't get them together that easily. You have to figure out how to find a space to meet, to discuss. You need to do that three or four times ahead, usually the rest is online. On the other hand there are more opportunities. If somebody can't participate, somebody else can just take over. Communication is always a big problem, actually. Because the burner community is not very diverse, talking about the... ...some are from the computer science community, some are artists. So it's very diverse. And all those combinations in between. If you have a new tool or you once again have a new app and we have to find out how this works... ...so communication is internally as well as to the outside. It doesn't matter which way you choose, at least for us it was a challenge. Promotion of art and good funding is very important. If you don't do it properly, you have problems for years. We can say it is from our own experience. This is why it's good to do this beforehand. Ideally you have someone who already knows a lot about that, has a lot of experience. Alright, now generally what makes Bern special? You have interesting experiences with others. You have this expression, you don't know which bush the rabbit will come out of. You can't have too many expectations, otherwise you will be let down. But other things might be interesting anyhow. And you don't have to change yourself. You have a week, four days of time, you don't have a lot of responsibilities. Otherwise, other than the organizational things you've agreed to. But otherwise, you can go without any structure and just simply experiment. And usually these opportunities are rare these days. If you're about 30, at least. It helps mentally to be spontaneous. If you have an even path, if you have a single path, then it's going to get really hard because you won't notice the things around it. There's a lot of people, you have a base trust, even if you don't know them beforehand. Especially with Burning Man, this is really extreme. A lot of people go out and they do these... None of us are there by default. There's a connection, a bridge to others, to other people. I think at the summer camp this will be probably similar. Even at the congress talking about this program. Exactly. You can try things, you can make mistakes. Even if you organize something, you can make mistakes. Then we'll see together how we can fix them. For me, what's very interesting, what I've noticed... A space that gives people this opportunity to make these experiences. Or generally, experiences that they usually wouldn't have had. I think this is very interesting. Generally, you use a lot of time. Even what you can see on this picture, the lemon camp that we built. We had to do with it for three months to do the decoration, to sit together with the people. You can also see maybe what we mean by camp. We camped around it, we've cooked together. We have done a performance for all other participants of the Keats Burn. And in the evening we get together and sit together if you are not occupied otherwise. And to be a part of it together. And this camp for a week. And depending on how long this event lasts, it's a room to live in. I'm not sure I understand. A couple of aspects. For example, at Keats Burn, they had a model that is called consensual bureaucracy. It's about who sees something. Where do you have to do something and they can decide it on their own. What they want to do if they see something that they have to do. They gather a lot of input by others. What they could know about it. And then there's a process. And at Borderlands it's really big. I've also done this before. And through the tool, this RUMEO tool that we use for communication, especially for organization internally, that we make a request, a formal request. I don't know the exact term, but it's a little bit like a forum with special tools. Similar to democracy, at least in this context, I looked at it. If you have a larger group, it can be used very well. Towards the outside we communicate with newsletters, Facebook channels. The central organization focuses on the most important things, on the essential things. The others, if they want to have something, they need to bring it along. Ideally, even the water and the electricity. But usually this is also centrally organized. But some things are just needed, security and stuff. Tickets are with burnertickets.com. There's a group in London that are specialized towards this. There are other solutions, printings that I've seen, several other commercial providers. Orga is also doing tickets. There are low income tickets. If someone doesn't have a lot of money in Orga, they can apply for a low income ticket. Part of the money, part of the funds are also splits between the projects there. We usually don't buy things that we can't do on our own, except for security, first aid that are required by law. If electricity is not organized centrally, and no one wants to be responsible, then there's no electricity. Then things happen the way they are. We need to see how we manage if there's no electricity. People have to bring it on their own. Now a small overview. Later you might see it better in the slides. Things that are interesting. I don't know if you can read it in the stream. But on the left side, the communication timeline with different steps. When do you send this newsletter? How often will we meet? What things do need to be decided at a certain time? Things like insurance and things that are essential. In the middle, you can see the structure of the funding, of the budget, how we used it. There's also things like the GEMA in Germany. Even I can't read it now, but first aid and all these things have to be paid for electricity and water. They pay for according to usage as well as the infrastructure for it. And also on the right side, once again, from the burning bear around the Keatsburn. We've looked at it with the tax advisor. It's really good if we can see someone who does the taxes for us or the organization. But they can, from the diversity of things, put it in a way so that the tax authorities can see that it is right and well. Let's get to the next slide. I want to do some other aspects. What we have, like you see it here. For example, at the KAAS Studio, a place where people can get together. We've also done that in Berlin with the burner. See, this has challenges like you can't just go there for a week and get along. But also for longer. This is a challenge, especially with a house of statistics at Alexanderplatz. We've had burglary things because there wasn't a lot of things going on during lockdown. And we've also rarely had this at an event, these challenges, these difficulties. And if you have these, you can also think about this. We started this club or the society. For the event, but this society can also do more for the society, for people who are not part of the burner society. And you can think about how you work together with other groups to do more good at last. And not just for the community, but also for the society at large. I know other organizations that are very well put together to find, it's defined funding easily. I'm not an expert. If you're decommunicized, you don't want to do advertisement. It's really difficult to get a promotion, to get funding. This is a special problem for Burning Man. It's a challenge. You can see on the picture an earlier stage how the burner embassy looked like. It's really cold at the moment because the house of statistics above us is being demolished above us or emptied. And especially with lockdown, it's not nice. With conflicts within the community, we have to know how to deal with that. And also let others do it and just simply accept it. If others do it differently, just let them and allow. And sometimes it's difficult. It's challenging, but it can also be very helpful to learn that. And also with that, I'd be at the end what we wanted to talk about. Now some links about different aspects. And yes, our contact information at the bottom. All at BerlinBerlin.de or Helga at BerlinBerlin.de. If you have questions or if you have questions beyond what you could ask here. Tisa, now after eight till 10, we have a video conference about a weekly meeting online. You can find it also find it through BerlinBerlin.de. So much for that. Thank you. Yeah, that's been really interesting. We just have one question from the internet. That's actually a good sign. I found this was very interesting. What event is close to Leipzig? And how do we get into contact with the organizational people? Yes, we are planning it short before Christmas. We started to teaser that we want to do something and to advertise the date. It's around the 23rd of July, the weekend. And we expect around 200 people. We have buildings and just contact us. And we are trying to create the team and create a meeting list to ensure that everybody can get the information of what's to happen. First of all, we do new years and New Year's Eve. And we have finished or we've done location scouting last summer. We visited the place. We looked at what's possible. How large can we do something? How large can we organize as an organizational team? The experience we had in the recent years and how can we realize that? But we also learned a lot from other groups. And if we have to look at which parts of Keats Burn's decision-making process is, can we take over? That's something I learned at the Burner Embassy. We use the same communication team system. But at this space we have 40 interesting active participants in the beginning. If you have a forum where people only get information via email, you don't get a discussion because people aren't used to wait a day to get an answer. So we edit a telegram group and that's better. But suddenly everything is intransparent because people who arrive later don't get all the information. And communication is an issue we have not yet solved. But we are collecting people who are interested and who want to participate from the beginning. Usually the events have no tickets at the event. Because you are on the organizational event of the event, the more probable is that you can get a ticket. Of course it shouldn't end once you have the ticket. But if you are just from the outside and just want to participate shortly before the event, it's quite difficult for a Burn. Usually it doesn't work. That's something Burning Man itself has learned. It's still sold quickly. It's hard to get a ticket and they also have special provisions for the community. You can keep your eyes open whether there's a ticket that comes along and you can perhaps buy it at a later point. There are parallels to the chaos where the Engel system is where we have hours or we collect hours and perhaps get a t-shirt but if you did a lot you can also help at the next event. So there are interesting parallels everywhere. Yes, I know the same the other way around because I was participating in the Congress. Usually it did not work through the last years. Usually the event happened and I wasn't there because I'm not an active part of the community. That way I would have noticed it. If you are only interested in the event without the community and it's quite hard to become part of the community. So if you only want to become part of the community on the event, it's quite hard. I was on a live Congress two years ago and it was a lot of work but it was very helpful to have the chaos meeting of Potsdam where I knew some people who can take you to places and there are these huge holes everywhere and everything is dark or flashing or bright and it's probably quite a bit harder and that's a question for me. A lot of people are... How do you protect yourself to not run around for three days and don't drink enough? We have these six 3-1 rules, six hours of sleeping, three times eating and a shower per day. Yes, we have similar rules. Every event has a guide and a survival guide and they say similar things. In Spain, especially the Black Rock Desert, you have to work with the heat in the day and some basic rules that people have collected through the time. We have so many issues that way. People want to come there and want to do a lot of things. If you have a book like this and you look at it before you arrive and you decide what you want to do and then you suddenly learn that by experience that it's on the other side of the city. You need at least half an hour if it happens at all and perhaps you get there and it doesn't take an hour longer or it doesn't happen at all. New people run around, run around, potential experience but miss the experience in front of the door. We can just don't plan too much. People who do the org and still want to participate a lot, that's very hard. Especially if you are working it for months. Usually even the org people are just overworked. So people usually do it once or thrice or move around in the org team. I think we all know that issue. Showering at Burning Man is a different problem because you have to bring your own water for showering and you have to collect your used water. In my first year at Burning Man I did not shower for those seven days. So it's like vacuum. It's moist paper and there are a couple of camps where there are events where you can get clean. There is a dome with foam and 30 people at once are covered in foam and then with water and then it's done. It's interesting, you have to queue for a long time before it's done but there are such opportunities but it's presence, it's activities that are provided by people. The situation people who were able to collect sufficient money to have all the material necessary. And you have to move everything into the desert. I don't think that there are more questions from the internet so I have another question. How often did you visit Burning Man? I was there once but on a number of different European events and for Burning Man itself I was seven times and all the European events together with Helga and my daughter and my son and the last time he moved there by himself and he did not take me with him. Also easier in a financial manner if you go to the local places you have to get a ticket, you fly there and if you really want to go cheaply you still have 1500 euros you have to pay and then you're very cheap. It doesn't have to be much more expensive you can go there with a truck but if you go with the bear necessities you can get there more cheaply but for Kiezbern you take two hours with a train or with a car and you just have to come get there from the train station and the participant price is cheaper and if you can organize everything to camp you can do so quite cheaply you can participate cheaply it's more reachable for many people and that's something I learned I come from the large Burning Man this huge event and the first time I went to an Austrian burning event and in the beginning of the week there were 10 people there the peak, 35 people I was there for the complete week because you meet each other again and again Burning Man is a large town you don't see a person again if you don't look for it You always did something together you did workshops you participated with your own project and at the end of the week it's quite as hard to move away from Burning Man from the large Burning Man you have to have a week without external yeah, it's a present and it's quite hard to go away with the right people it breaks on all levels so you don't have to go to Burning Man to experience this culture and so it's important to increase this culture and to have more small events in your own areas 200 people perhaps another question from the internet about the small events leaving all traces is something that happens it's different than long-term planning I don't get the question in its entirety sustainability, the question if you look at Burning Man itself all the European Burning Man participants fly there yeah, there are sustainability issues so small regional bonds are more sustainable and a lot of things I know from the small camp usually you just do it once but over several years on the same event and you refresh everything and create new stuff yeah, there are structures that grow that everybody can that all the material is there but you don't have to buy everything each time and there are art projects where it takes care that what material is used whether it can be reused it's always a question of how to work around material or with material but everything is on its own there are no requirements on what has to be done specifically but every group on every event organize and every group in the event should think about it but especially from the Burning scene we try to have to reuse the things as well as possible not just use them once and throw away we have to get to an end to become more and more sustainable thanks for your attention if you have other questions from the internet you can get in touch with themselves this talk has been translated by Franz T. and Attila if you have any feedback you can contact us on Twitter using the hashtag C3lingo