 So welcome to Toffy TV it is another Ultimate Everton team we got Steve Kelly with us today to talk through his Ultimate Everton team which is essentially two defenders, two midfielders and two forwards. Four matters based on a game we play here on Toffy TV called Ultimate Fan which you can download and win weekly prizes on. Check that out the link is in the description and it's the same format in that you get cards every week and you have to pick like a fantasy football team but you only get two defenders, two midfielders and two strikers. So we're going to ask Steve about his team and then we're going to get his best team you've ever seen? Yeah best team yeah. Best team I've ever seen. Okay best team he's ever seen. One question I ask, I ask it every week is if you could put a goalie in who would you goalie be? Nigel Martin. Okay. Easy. I just started watching everything just as Sal Fogh was on the on the decline book coming to the end of his career everything so Nigel Martin obviously went through the days of Steve Simonson called Gerard and Richard Wright so he tripped in his loft. But yeah Nigel Martin, Mr. Reliable, 7 out of 10 every week, great goalkeeper and someone we were linked with earlier in the 90s as well before he went to Leeds was it? Yeah yeah he went to Leeds from Palestine when we had him and they were like yeah why don't you go speak to Leeds first and then come back and he was like he did come back it was just 12 years later or something. It's just unfortunate that Simon was England's goalkeeper at the time because he probably would have been England's number one. No he was an amazing goalkeeper so and obviously when he went and when Everton brought him to the club it was a stroke of genius really because Richard Wright was you know wasn't the best and it was so fortuitous that in the first game I think Richard Wright got injured Nigel Martin got in the team that was he never looked back and it was only till he got an injury himself a tough injury which finished his career. I think that also was part of the thing of like he he went out while he was still really good yeah he never did that thing like Tim Howard did but it was like he tailed off so people have bad memories so now Nigel Martin was an was an incredible goalkeeper that we just got the very end of him so let's get into your team then let's start with your first defender and why? So the first one is I think I think the majority of Everton fans will go with this one is Leighton Baines Leighton Baines I was just saying off camera to you then it's probably one of the most likable Everton players we've had in the last 20 years three kicks corners assists goals yeah penalties he was just a full package as a modern day fullback and to be honest with you again he was another one seven eight out of ten every week got us out of so many so many games where we were down and bang on him from 30 yards or a free kick and he just he was just like I said very likable bloke on off the pitch as well pretty cool bloke as well so consistent so consistent wasn't he so consistent to his career it's funny today because we've had I've had some sponsors come back from last week's show with Kane and Kane had him his course as well I think Baz had him as well in the first show was getting very repetitive now I'm afraid for some but this is just the way it is and it's funny when people people people think you actually think Ashley Cole you actually think he was better than Ashley Cole well I do and and the reason why is because I don't think he was as good as defenders Ashley Cole but but for what we needed him for and the hit between him and the link up between him and P&R I wouldn't have swapped them for anyone and I think there was five seasons in a row when he had the most assists in Europe you know or most chances created in Europe and I don't understand why anyone would want to give that up you could say oh they actually call us a better defender but if you tell them out there's a lot better defenders at the moment than um Robinson and Jen's Alexander's clearly you know I mean there's better I'm not saying he's the best because you've got people like Reese Jane and stuff and there's a great comparison there but the point being for for the way Liverpool are that's so important and for the way we played letting Baines was I wouldn't have swapped them for anyone so therefore when I say I think Baines was better I don't mean he was necessarily technically better or a better defender I just mean I wouldn't have swapped them for Ashley Cole now that's that's no one else probably understands that argument but the stats are there and the way he played and the way we set up and the goals we scored through him at P&R that if we'd had maybe a calling we wouldn't have scored as many goals so yeah when he wasn't in the team you noticed yeah I haven't been P&R even P&R wasn't the same player when Baines wasn't there and it's because it's a whole obviously Ashley Cole London base player yeah all that type of stuff as well but playing Baines on his day like you look at some of the clubs you look at Man United wanted them by Man United wanted them Do you think he ever should have moved? I know it's a hard question because whatever it's on Ian's but do you think he should have moved? Probably for trophy why if he wanted wanted trophies definitely because to get it back to the I suppose the Wayne Rooney side of it Wayne Rooney was never going to win Premier Leagues or FA Cups or League Cups or everything because he was just wearing it when we've never been in that position like Man United have so he probably should have and he would have made Man United a lot better team at the time as well because there was a lot of their plays at the time we were coming to the end like and I think at a bigger club you'd always like to see what he would have you wouldn't want to see it of course but you wouldn't want to see it but you'd look at how much Rooney went on because I think that's part of the like the argument with some of these plays is that when people say about Ashley Cole and using him because he was considered the best left back in the same period of time he left Arsenal we were a good side to go to Chelsea because he wanted more he wanted to play for a better team on win trophies and he did and I do believe whether we like this not as Evertonians is that footballers who hang around and stay at Everton will be loved by us but they'll never ever get the most out of their career and that's a shocking thing to say about your own club but I do believe that's the truth and I also believe that you have to have that being in desire also to probably be the best player because you look at all like the players of any generation you either take your team to trophies like Gerard de Liverpool or you do a Rooney or you do a Rio Ferdinand or you know or you know Gareth better leaving space to go to to Real Madrid even Ronaldo leaving Man United to go to Real Madrid there is something there is something in these players that makes them extraordinary because they know in their heads someone like Slatan know in every couple of years that making that right move and winning the league at different clubs that's like incredible for for say but that's also that thing of like saying I'm not going to settle or my happiness is going to come from winning trophies and I'm not here really to make friends after me creates finish people like I'm you know like Slatan most clubs he'll be he's been at will always remember him fondly and I suppose you know he's always for a lot of the big fish and at the end of his career you can turn around and go I did all this and I've had an amazing career well yeah Leighton Baines can turn around and say I love the only time at Everton but it'll still be unfulfilled because he never won a trophy are you looking on a smaller scale Gillian Lescott yeah he left us yeah you could see where Man City were going yeah and it's weird because he's probably done more at us yeah yeah like on the pitch better player yeah player at us than he was at Man City yeah yeah but he'll always be remembered as a Man City player he went on and won the Premier League played in Champions League for him so that's where what you're saying is absolutely spot on about Baines really I think you have to like like I said you have to have that like little internal drive and selfishness it is that selfishness and that's always going to be the thing for other people I suppose rather than us we will look at back at these players when they finish careers go we love the fact that they play and I suppose for those players though it's that flip of the coin of like how happy am I yeah and for some players they're very happy doing what they do having a good career that being a professional football and playing for a Premier League team all the great and loving that team might be the pinnacle for them where there's other players have that as I say have that selfishness where it's about them more than anything else and winning trophies and and that's it's a that will always be a very unique thing and people will always look back at like Baines and probably say did he fulfil his potential could he have been more could he have won more and I think he probably cut off but at the same time he he he never it for him I would say it he never slacked off it you know because you do get these players you get to maybe 26 27 28 and go I'm gonna be here for the rest of the career now I'll just I'll just get through another one at the moment you could probably say it about is someone likes the heart you know a palace he's probably gonna stay there for the rest of his career but I think he's made that choice now and I think now in the next few years you they're gonna get so much more out of him because he's he's made that decision that he is happy with palace and he wants to drive palace on and I don't think that's anything against him I think that's like his window of opportunity he's gone I think Kane at Spaces like a little bit like that now he might have missed his big moment so instead of like sitting there going on or this is terrible which Baines sort of did Baines was like with Baines missed Baines basically said if the club had let me sign for Man United I would have signed for Man United but he didn't so fair enough I'm not gonna worry about that I think that's like Kane now Kane has to look at the situation and say to himself I'm staying here now let's make the most of it let's drive these on let me get all my individual numbers England top gold scorer Spaces top gold scorer I don't know we could ever get that because of Jimmy Greaves or whatever but I think you have to make that decision and I think that's what Baines made that decision I'm gonna drive on now and then he left the club on his own terms and you know obviously back back with the club so I think that's why he always like I said at the very start very likable but that's why you'll never get many of them fans saying a bad word no no no I'll be very and we'll always back him in the arguments as well yeah we'll always back him in the arguments yeah I mean we we see him every week that's probably another reason why we back him as well but some of the goals he scored I'll see if I see if I see if I see cold scored him it'd be like wow well it's best left back well but he was he was unreal me to some of the west I'm away new castle one away from home and like the amount of times he like high-pressure penalties as well you know I mean obviously he should have took the one away from me that time yeah it is one but saying that though the hair did have us no more than me so you know maybe that's the problem um yeah I think we're gonna get I'm gonna have to try and find things to say about every week um so who's your second defender my second one might surprise a few people David Weir oh yes I like that a bit of originality yeah go on David Weir come from Hart Walter Smith coming for the 250 gram something like that turn that little thing he made I always remember he made his debut I think it was like a Wednesday night game or something it was and it was under the light and um for what he for what he achieved at everything uh become one of our best probably one of Smith's best at signings and maybe one of the club's best ever yeah in the Premier League here and I just think again David Weir he's one of those players he during the even during the crap times he was still really no he was he was solid and he had that bit of a bit of a nasty side of the times as well where he could he wasn't he wasn't scared to give a bit out to the other team but I was he was Mr reliable and oh yeah he was um he was someone who you knew was on the team sheets every week yeah very very sort of quiet softly spoken yeah but someone who led by example I think very interesting career because he actually started um he actually went to America he went to college in America yeah and um did like a scholarship thing so he skipped that sort of initial phase of development and he he come back from America yeah he went to heart and then we got him from heart and I think that's why his career wasn't like was probably longer than then because he because he skipped that initial new phase and and as I said very intelligent fella um he played so he was 41 yeah yeah well he went to Rangers didn't he I think that's why though because he because those early years he wasn't getting like battered in the youth systems he was playing in America and he was um I say I don't think his professional career started till he was 22 so he probably got a few more years out of that and no he was a brilliant player and reading of the games so yeah as a center off like you didn't have pace yeah it was like one of those when you play Sunday League or something it's like players who you know went to went to drop deep because you know they haven't got the pace but he had a very clever footballing brain yeah he did on the ball now he was um but he's volley as well was it spares it was that spares away yeah spares away yeah yeah he scored I think did he score in the 4-4 against Leeds as well I think that might have been his first goal yeah he was very so consistent someone you could rely on every week uh captain of times was he a captain club captain I think he I think he might have been yeah Moise came in and continued that and we had Yobo but he still had him and Stubbs in there and and they were they were a huge part and of course um he's now a famous part of the famous catchphrase he's the weir sub so when anyone ever brings on a defender towards the end of a game it is the weir sub um yeah that was because that was what happened towards the end of his days at Evan was he Evan might be winning a game and and you know Evan Moise wanted to see it see it out and would always send on weir and it was the weir sub and now forever I always call every every and a lot of people say you know it's like anytime anyone or it was or anyone brings on that Leeds sub to try and see out the game that's the weir sub he was just he was just like very very considerate and he's not there's no flashiness about him there's no there was no nothing like you know very very solid pro but I had like a fantastic spell at Evan yeah he was brilliant he was um as well looking at his at 0-4 season when we got in the Champions League he was so important that season the amount of clean sheets we had with with him at the back there as well and he chipped him with a few goals over that season as well and you're looking even as as his career has gone on like playing at ranges till he was 41 he went the world cup with Scotland in 98 as well he was he's had he's had an amazing 600 I think I've read before he's had like nearly 700 games in his career which is which is amazing and he's gone on to be like you say now about seems a very clever book on like Bramford there's a lot of involvement with that as well yeah he was he was a big part of Bramford actually and I've actually you know people saying Evan should bring him into you know his lads his lads playing now as well isn't he so I think he's a lot of Brighton isn't he but he's not alone somewhere at the moment um who's that Wigan wasn't he he was um when Wigan had to do the big the big page when he went when he went bust basically uh he went to Brighton and we were looking at his lad then I think what we was we was funny because we was the we was the player between Watson and Jack Yelke essentially he was that player in between and we always we've always loved consistent centre back it's one of our big problems now we don't have a consistent centre back and it was there's almost a link there's almost a link between them all he was like there was Brian LeBone then he was Mick Lyons then he was Mark Higgins then he was Kevin Dave Watson Dave Watson into into like where and then you can throw stubs in that and then and then to Jack Yelke and then Jack Yelke was like the last one he was like the last one that any that you could rely on like they always had good partners but he was all this oh and that's mad that you can go 50 years with like five players basically which thread thread in between and since Jack Yelke retired we've not had anybody who's come in and taken that consistently Mark Michael Keane supposed to be that player now but he's not you can't rely on him but they're all leaders they're all led they all they always had that player next to them you know and it's it's it's so it's been so we're evidently always like we talk about our number nine's and stuff but I want I want centre back that you can rely on every week was also a big part part of it someone you could rely on every single week and it's so it's so evident that that's what ever the missing at the moment and David Whale was one of them as far as I'm concerned he was one because like obviously Stubbs came Stubbs was the shelter wasn't he he came it yeah the he was just like that calm and influence though and he let obviously Stubbs left and came back but we was this concentrate all of that and different managers were playing and that's so it's so interesting that that's something we're massively missing at the moment you know and yeah I thought I thought David Whale was was a fantastic fantastic player he went through it was a pretty shocking period for the club on the pitch we were struggling every season understand we had a lot of financial problems at the time but he he was one he was never one of them you'd got even if you're beat it you'd be like David Whale had a decent game yeah had a decent game like I remember there's one but I'm pretty sure he was linked with man United at one point as well yeah I think there's room I wouldn't be surprised by that I think there's room as a man United at one point with obviously uh Walter Smith's connection with Alex Ferguson also because Ferguson always loved to like buy a mad centre back to when they needed like someone we would have been perfect I think it was the time you know when he bought Lauren Blanc yeah yeah yeah but Liverpool actually wanted to sign him and he came to us instead because of Smith and because I think he guaranteed first team football with us in the Premier League um no such such a such a really good sign and as I said such such something now we miss so much because the other kind of players that would play 35 games a season would play without you know you would need to be out injured it would be something absolutely serious you know like a knee injury or something like that it wouldn't aches and pains or you know the whatever like a groin strain or whatever you know just stick a needle in me and get me through the game I'll play and that's something and it's so evident that ever and this is something this is something that we've been missing since since Jaguilche you know or maybe a year before Jaguilche packed packed on in with us it's it's so obvious but that's the mad thing that they're not they're not so readily available anymore because because the position has changed so much and and even though I think maybe because maybe centre backs rely more on pace now that they do pick up more injuries hamstring injuries and play the centre forwards are so fast now where it's like you just said there you could we're like I'm sure like we're against Owen was was we're always at him you know done well against him I'm not saying Michael Owen didn't score goals against us but we are always done well because you like you just said positionally is brain and that's what helped him last longer because because he didn't need that pace he's brilliant he was just yeah great great centre often probably doesn't get enough recognition no I'll say as well but no my from my era growing up it was uh yeah he was the first probably good centre player you can rely on what more do you want in football yeah exactly so let's go into your midfield is your first midfielder so gone with Andrei Konchelskas so Andrei Konchelskas was the first player I ever got on my back yeah after the I always remember we won the FA Cup and the club used to do something or they'd do something from where you could go in and get your footy talk of the FA Cup yeah yeah and they try to share they remember the Danca kit yeah the year after I had Konchelskas on the back yeah I hadn't signed because you know when my dad was going mad because he was like do you realize you might not be signing that because he's failed him out he was with medical wasn't it no no no no no no no it was financial issues that was the the story at the time yeah no it was financial issues between Manchester United's former club and at the time my dad's like I've just spent all that money on Konchelskas on the back back of your top up he was he was amazing yeah he was the first amazing probably player I ever seen yeah he was like dad here for me growing up it was obviously we won the FA Cup then we got Konchelskas it was like this is a great time yeah yeah like it was such happy memories and that but he was just a great player running with the ball beating men scoring goals he's just a you don't really see wingers like that anymore like not at ever but he was just one he used to hug the touch line yeah he's always good at coming in as well I always remember yeah he was he was a he was a he was in he was an outside inside yeah you know kind of winger winger so and I know a lot of people say yeah he wasn't there for long but the the time he was here he gave everyone so many great memories and I'll never forget the derby when he scored in two yeah two at the Cop and I was actually watch that at Goddison yeah I was I was in the Bullens with them all dancing on the chairs and the most probably complete oh we should it should have been about 5-0 are we are in the 2-1 I'll never know we should have been about 5-0 but yeah that was probably the most complete football displays I've ever seen from an Everton player to be honest with you Konchelskas at Anfield he was just it was just a shame he obviously left the club yeah again that comes back to the circumstances of the club at the time but um yeah he was he was no he was unreal honey he was the yeah he was your first like you like I said their first amazing player I'd ever seen yeah for ever no he was he was he was probably off I don't know he was like our first real Premier League player I know I'm a catchy was probably like the one where everyone went oh we finally bought a you know a foreign player um who played in a well cup but he was the real like you brought him from Man United and yeah still in his peak and his goals were obviously wanted to change things up didn't even get back him get back him in and stuff but and he missed a big part of that season he got injured I think against Manchester United he was out for agent and you know me and Bas spoke about this it's you know we'd been available for that final game we but I but you know we think he would have won we would have won the cup in his cup that year um because the team the way that team went on for the rest of the season was and I was a cheffie of Wednesday second to last game of the season and scored a hat-trick and he was just all he had to do was knocker yard and 80 and no no he could hit it so hard didn't even have to be accurate it was he scored at Anfield he just wellied it didn't he just wellied and it went under James it was just power yeah that's what he had power he scored he scored in the home derby as well didn't he got yeah yeah and he scored the home derby as well he we do won one but he got the home derby and he was brilliant and again it's like that thing people may speak about like Hamas Rodriguez in time of yeah of you know you only have them for a certain time it seems to be the way we'd ever ever been players or when we get something we can never hold on to it for very long but he was amazing and more disappointing thing was he but left to go to Valentina and they were rubbish and only don't think they ever paid them paid us for them and they were rubbish they weren't even a big team no they weren't they weren't I remember at the time you just watching I was watching Italian football just to watch him again so she and he just let that one you never you never did anything you never did anything so yeah what a what a fancy there's a lot of there's a lot of players again I could have put it ahead of them but yeah just that was my happiest no that's it if this podcast is about as an everything fan it was great we won the FA Cup we were we probably that team probably should have went on and done a lot a lot more I remember that I remember when we were signing him and there was like it was all done and then it wasn't done yeah and it was mad I think I've told this story loads of times but I used to just at seven o'clock radio Maisie said they had the news and then they had the sports pulling and I used to go to my dad's car I must have done it felt like weeks but it was it was like a couple of weeks actually and I used to go to my dad's car every every night seven o'clock listen to the news know that there'd be like a proper sports bulletin and I'd be waiting for like Mike Hughes to say what was going on because literally that was the all mad time is now you know what I mean how mad is time now that deal you like the and you'd have and be like you might just the very best might go there's been no further updates on on draykins because it was it was like he was signing it was all done and then it was like Manchester night so like yeah no can't go through it was like why was like because they own money to the club like to sell on it might have been a little bit more than than what was said I mean you know don't want to get anyone to trouble but um yeah so everything which is stuck they're going well we're not paying it we've give you your money you've got to give that money to them now and in the end it got through and but like you said it was almost like it was all done it was all done people went out bought shirts and all on the back you know when you're paying by the letter Jesus amazing I got it on the back of my shirt I think it's a great gift I think I give it to someone because I think it was like those numbers were like double numbers when they do like white and then they had like black black on top and I think all the black block fell off and all it was was it was just chelsea's in white but it you couldn't like they were just it was just a block so it was the background so you couldn't define what what was on it and I think it was just givens to someone and you know years later you go what did I do that for a lot of trouble for ringing club call yeah that's why I ended up in my dad's car listening to me as he said I wasn't gonna get caught out by club call yeah but he was he was great one he was yeah unbelievable so who's your second father uh this one's probably a tad more sadness of galley speed yeah galley speeders yeah like when he come to everton following summer funk and chelsea doesn't it like that was that was at the time that was the missing piece in the oh yeah yeah yeah and um when he come to the club is just it's a whole happiness of joining everton it was just like one of us when he was like everton fan yeah his dad is yeah and um obviously it the curly went on so I would just prove what i but even before it's clear before he won the league with leads and was like i think he got might have got young play the year and like when we got him it wasn't like a player on the down it was a player on the up and we just finished that season when chelsea's just outside the european places I thought we were building yeah and we were gonna have dunk and chelsea's and speed and you know all these plays were all gonna be it was we were building something really you know because you didn't need four or five plays in them days you just had to add one or two with the subs and everything the sub rules the way they were just had to add a couple yeah and he oh god he was great mate he was on the sky the other week showed his head of the ranfield yeah you know when he got that head of the run yeah and you you just see any happiness on the blokes face to score at the top end and he was like this is this is this is amazing and it's just a shame the way it obviously all ended at evident yeah and obviously in his life it's a horrible it's just it's like horrible to talk i wasn't gonna pick it because of that reason no no but because i just thought no but the thing about it is though great great player for one and he was the complete midfielder yeah he was he was he see and the sad thing is it finished at evident yeah because the standards of the club had completely fell through the floor yeah and as far as he was concerned he wasn't gonna put up with that yeah but then stories came out about him yeah and like they did with runy they put it all on him like it was saying he was forcing out and then loads of people and you know i i was young myself so i i you fall into the sack because you because you love your club and you love your club and you don't you don't in them days again you know very much of the very early part of the internet you know there's not there's not lots of ways to find out you the club tell you something that's it the player the play was classy enough themselves not to dive old why he felt he needed to leave there's been lots of rumors since he never even reacted did he no no but he never reacted in a bad way but it this way so you see when runy obviously yeah but he was a kid he was a kid but i mean with speed the amount of abuse he got when he comes to go it was pretty bad it was horrendous it was horrendous and it was class absolutely class and like anything as people grow up and start to understand that there's two sides of the story and it was difficult for evertonians because obviously and the truth never really come out but you know we know there was rumors about you know howard kendall at the time and and his and and his relationship with garish b and obviously as a nevertonian you always want to back howard kendall he was an absolute legend you always want to you always want to take that side of things i find it interesting that howard kendall never spoke about it before his death either even in his autobiography i i i you know i read this autobiography and i was i felt massively let down that there was nothing in it that it wasn't it wasn't put out there and ultimately we never found out the truth because obviously what happened to garish we were so so sad but i think when garish b died though there was that realization by evertonians that you know he wasn't evertonian he had played for the club the club there was more going on at the time there's more going on since we're all a little bit cleverer now we all know not to to to eat the nonsense they feed us and it's just so sad that that sort of happened after he died you know what i mean the rumor was one he won he called waltersmith at the end of the at the waltersmith's first season and asked to come back to the club there was there was that rumor yeah a lot of them rumors flying around at the time as well i remember and you look back down you and you think he should have really been everton captain and i always think of him in i always think of garish speed in the the yellow and black kit that was like that was like that was like when you think of some plays in their kits that's the kit i know he's he wore like the dank of shit and he also i also remember um it's funny because actually there's got a funny connection we've been buzzing about this before we really knew each other um i got a job with my first proper job and it was working for the railway working for major ale on major sag and i got a job and it was in the summer on 98 98 yeah was it 98 yeah and it was the second season of that god awful one-to-one kit oh yeah and i remember going so it got me first like paypaki and i went to deity sports or deity soccer in and it was boss i loved deity soccer there was two so there was soccer city on bald street where i first met Duncan there years ago and i was a kid he was doing silent session and then there was deity soccer and they had some boss kits from everywhere but they had an ever they had the everton kit it was out and because we're going into the second season and if anyone wonders why they stopped having kits after the year it's because they only made one batch of them and if you're going into the second season you couldn't get the kits anyway and they'd always be dead cheap then so i walked in and bought picked up this everton top um for about i don't know 15 quid let's say and because i bought a cheap the first thing i did was cut the v off which galley speed always wore always wore it without that stupid white v with everton on it and the kit looks so much better and it turned up and we had a friendly arson deli team against bazaar's team and i knew he was an evertonian and stuff and i walked in and i had this top one and he looked at me and just went i like galley speed and i think they were the first words bazaar never said to me like because he obviously knew it was a blue ball they were like the first words and this was years before like you know we obviously started toffy tv or doing stuff on the radio and it's just weird that that weird connection of that kit and me cutting that color off because he hated the color but i always think of that yellow yellow kippo i think you see you i think you see in there like they might attribute about the bloke about about as him as a person but as a player as well like really keen saying the toughest opponents come across you know what i mean like i remember him and keenan the cuff final new castle v united and speed matched him oh he was and he started as a winger and then became a sense my fielder played left back for weirs played left back for weirs captain this was phenomenal i think he was i think when me and bas did i british best 11 i think we got a minute left back yeah you did i remember that yeah but you look at him and you just think he was ever he was ever something we wanted as a player no no he was everything as a captain as an ambassador he should have been here for 10 years but he should have been he messed it up he messed it up and and obviously whatever happened and there is talk and i don't want to really talk about it on here but there was talk of what happened but it must have it must have how bad must have it been for a player to turn around and go i want to leave this club because the standards are so low at this club now that i need to go you look at that season we should have went down with yeah we were terrible we should have absolutely the worst ever team after they were wasting the 1914 the 1914 at like the 1940 yeah we're like a mixture of young players and stuff and and whatever and what happened to christmas was really and the manager was an absolute horrendous but that 98 team should have they were horrendous horrendous like some of the players it wasn't for probably campbell um oh no no no no campbell it's just a mixture wasn't it was a mixture of just just we just got some points from different games and scrambled it and i remember at the end that scene was just pure anger whereas at the end of the 94 it was pure relief and it was like we're never going to do this again well you're all out in four years um no no i don't know i i just think what the poor man must have been going through at the end i mean i think so i think so i think so but and he was doing great things at wales as well at the time you know and they've then they've built off that as well it's sure when you think about and i do you know what i actually remember where there was one when he died yeah me too i was playing football in a game um on a sun with my everton everton team and we had a lad playing he played 10 to me field called oine right from north wales right and he was boxed a box made me feel that he always scored goals and he scored in that game and and he won number 10 and i just remember i just remember someone from the sideline shouting it on galley speeds died and we were like what and he said galley speeds died and and i do you know what as well we might have been playing everton stewards which would make it even more weird then we might have been playing everton stewards in a game and he'd scored and it was just and i just remember walking off the pitch just totally shocked sick feeling yeah and then afterwards find out what had happened and i yeah oh same as you made a stop me you just went out yeah because you don't know and obviously we still we still don't know and we never we never will know and and that's that's sad that's sad and again that's more of a that shows that how important like you know men talking to each other and and like you know the you know these lads having the talk hoping something going for walks before going out massively important is because you've got a situation we've got a fella and everything look was a you know great looking fella amazing footballer the manager of his country had so you know could have easily have left that and gone and come become the event manager the new castle manager the lead manager because everyone loved mostly loved them maybe maybe not evertonians at the time but you know it was things with the chains just just sad it just makes me feel sad with him and me team and just yeah you always just think you just want players you were proud to play for everton you know yeah and you know what though you know what though what i like about those two players that people forget that after the after we won the fe cup the whole joe royal period was was good till it was bad yeah exactly and it could have been it could have been and it was actually joe parkland getting injured which was the catalyst but remember the that i remember my Richard Keyes and Andy Gray at the time saying dark horses dark horses for the title after we beat that we can't remember we beat them on million and never on a yeah i know me it's sad so let's let's move on to the the forwards so first forward was kevin cambell yeah super kev so yeah basically saved us yeah he did yeah from going down again so i know the mixed bag of play well kev cambell coming in just he just took to everton fans and we took to him straight away and obviously a lot of people never forget the knight at anfield as well he scored scored the winner in the derby but as a goal scorer he was he was just brilliant he was just he could do a bit of everything he was he could do a bit out of the box i remember there was one time he played centre midfield under water smith and i just thought that was that the game yeah he was just he was just a good another one good solid professional he did he still does now no he's great fellow great fellow we've obviously had him on loads of times when we talked to him and he's such a good fellow he's a proper he's you know his ass knows his face love but yeah if you're gonna you know he's you know he's very much a very much a blue through and through and i've only went on to west brome and kept him up in the premier league as well no he was a he was a fantastic and i think for kevin cambell i think is the uh you know he's he's very he's very reflective of all the people that we love or we've made heroes of because what they've done is they've come in when we needed someone and they've they've like saved us or they've given us a hero so dunk is dunk is loved because he came to heaven when we were in a mess and he scored goals and his first goal was in adabi and he got us and he got us his fans and you know he could tell he was playing for the shate playing for the fans and where he should be was surrounded by mediocrity he was just like something yeah and you know i'm sure like for different generations like andy king was a bit like that i think for a generation um even like when people like in 84 when we were in brilliant people like and you know andy graham p3 coming and started doing things like that as well and obviously they went on to better things but there is that thing of having a player that just elevates everybody else and and kevin cambell did that and came in scored the goals did it the following season as well and it wasn't really so he got a knee injury yeah and the knee injury like uh i think it might it was at the second season towards the end he just got this knee injury and he never truly picked it up again and and there were a couple of months under moe's first season didn't he yeah and obviously it was him and was in skill first that was good for ben and obviously runy come along and i think cambell might have left towards the end of the day but people forget that as well because people forget when you watch the arsenal game and runy scored and runy jumps on cambell's back he was a big part of the early early moe's period as well so he come across as a leader as well yeah he was a definitely again like say my david way very very silent and calm but he was yeah again i remember in the derby when gerald done that tackle he was first yeah i remember he was first in there of course he scored he scored in the derby as well you know the last the last time before the last time we won at amfield so he was he gave everything for the aventures and he still talks so fondly about the club today and and i think obviously i know dunk was everyone's hero time but i actually if you look dunk the fans love probably dunking moe but can cambell probably give us i think yeah what i what i would say is is because cambell came in and sure scored those goals in such a short period of time i think you know scoring on his debut new castle yes i think those goals were quick quick hits and then got the hat stick on the last day against westam and they were they were it was all very much in the sport when we needed someone where it's like the year before when we stayed up dunk was the captain dunk had scored goals dunk had actually dunk kept us up this season before he'd been made captain and he was scoring goals in different games got like a hat stick against bolton and over christmas and he was scoring but it wasn't like in one big chunk so you don't look back and go so i think there's like a game of forest don't score the cup there was but it was all you might have finished the season let's say like 12 goals yeah yeah yeah i miss that missed that so it was like he scored goals but it wasn't keven cambell scored them in this big chunk so you got to a part of the season like you have to stay up we have to win games and stay up and he and he did that for us and we i think we ended up staying up quite comfortably but but he was the spark you know he was the thing because when you go back and you think we played like sheffield wednesday and i think he beat us at goddison and kaba only scored the couple and they just looked like it was only going to go one way and then and then it all changed when he came in i think it was the covency game where he scored and we stayed up i think we like four games yeah but um even look at the season after we had a decent again and we weirdly we finished 12th i think was it but it was a decent team should have done oh yeah should have done a lot of some of the players um you look at that was probably barbie's best don urchin's and he went to them didn't he uh but yeah cambell was another one he's probably one of them and it gives you seven out of ten definitely well let's move on to your second strike that's one um Romelu Lukaku yes um obviously our record premier league goals because he's not really leaving out of anybody's team i'd say so um he's the complete striker really one yeah um back to goal running up running a player's selfish another one i had that selfish side of him which not wrong with that because it's all about putting the ball in the back of the net but um yeah probably not as loved by some fans for certain reasons i've got everything he could and everything yeah it was kind of a bit like at the runy stage on runy left he had to get to fulfill his career yeah definitely and um a lot of it's hard to take his fans we all know that it's hard to take but um to me like he gave everything as much as he could and and everything shared and he probably got left down by the club more than anything Lukaku yeah and it comes back again to what we have a conversation about all the time the club letting certain players down and we've recently found out obviously Wayne Rooney doing his podcast with Tony Bellew when he got left down by the club yeah yeah it seems like a common thing so with with rom if we'd actually shown a bit of ambition ambition ambition as a club he might still be an actor player and we might be in a better position we are now yeah definitely would yeah but even if even if we'd even when we said he'd said right i'll give you one more season and we'd that summer gone right we're going to invest in some really good up and coming stiker uh Harland or something i don't know um then you know that would have been the difference but we didn't we we left it and then when he came in we were like uh what do we do now and of course we had Domet the club and since then Domet has gone on and obviously with Charleston as well um but not neither are quite Romelu Lukaku we were finishing 7th or 8th and he was finishing family goals he's got finished 11 twice and he's got he's got he was in the top five every so he came in came on it was embarrassing embarrassing whenever when anyone ever looks back at Matt this is time yeah and says like you know oh he should have kept them go look at how many goals Lukaku's got and look at where we finished in the league and i'll tell you why you shouldn't stay at the club yeah i think yeah it's a shame of rom because again like i said a lot of fans don't really look at him in that in that in that class but i think he's what a modern day stiker it is not powerful just loves scoring goals and he very rarely misses that's one thing i'd say as well always it's a target put it that way sorry yeah always it's a target even if it's straight at the goalie but the amount of times where he scored i don't know two in a game he'd get before three it'd be like was that classic thing is that classic line of like well we still where they got seven even if you haven't scored yeah it was like no that's not that's not true that's not true east you know when we beat i remember we beat man city four nil and he scored the first goal and it'd be and it'd be like well yeah that's how we won the game because he gives the cat and he also because of his because of his ability to push pinback defenders and he was always a threat people wouldn't people were terrified of us we should give us it's great in europe for some of those games away from from home in europe he's just hanging goals in the even scott's got a well the kf didn't he yeah and yeah but we had but we had alcheras at the back so they just again martin is i think that was an easy one look after i think again it's no but it's an easy one because he's boss and he's yeah i think people will look back i think in time and go away you've said about kentiel's because people go up people will start saying maybe like amazon's rigas and look after because there's no denying that the look after is a world-class player and he played for evan and i i'm still i'm still to see him they said he was gooder into my lamb but i'm still to see him be better than he was at evan and rick because he was like the big fish and some players absolutely love that so but but then you have to sort of move like we said earlier between my light and bane's you have to move to get to see what you can get out your career and i don't think he would ever tell you man i go i regret leaving evan because of course he's played for big clubs and he'll win stuff but chelsea i imagine but he'll look back and go i enjoyed my time or whatever i don't do most i don't know anything about the car who's that thing is like where fans play sometimes get the wrong idea about fans and social media so when they played there's an old safford man you're nice and he beats his phone and he walked over a couple of years to our fans it was like well what do you expect our fans to do there but give you grief when you do that but you're giving grief to the wrong people yeah because most of our fans did back him forget about social media i remember the game when the game after that he said he wasn't signing a contract and he scored two i think against hall and haven't the first one he didn't know how to celebrate it the second one he was like because he'd seen the gladiancy giving a lot of support my could i say like when he plays for evan he said that's all i want i couldn't give him monkeys about whatever he's doing off the pitch or what he's saying to when he goes away with belgium or whatever when he plays for evan he scores goals no no other no other currency matters to me and the sad part about it he him as a individual had more ambition than our club but how many players do we have that kiss the badge and give all the fist and all that you know and run around going i love evan i love evan and you're like give me but you're not that good are you you know what i mean and after the and then the club go and give them a job somewhere or whatever and they walk out i mean not to my veins by the way because veins is like i think veins crosses over both but there are players who run around going oh i love love this club gonna be with this club forever blah blah blah fans get go yeah they're amazing and then after and and then where are the clubs might go you believe cap didn't win anything for you you might have loved them i think he'd get a different reaction though maybe maybe maybe i united gave me i felt a bit sorry for me interesting when he comes and plays against us for chelsea bro yeah right so that's your team so it was wea bains conchelskas speed kevin cambal and romele le carre that's brilliant i like that because you've mixed it up i like that that's right yeah just for mix that up try to put a different so let's let's get into it let's get into it very quickly you've picked six players that played against evan and that you're best the best team so let's face defender uh john terry john terry was i think with john terry a lot of people always going about his defending but actually on the ball he was really good on the ball like leader what a leader he was a leader um give give his all for chelsea every weekend i always remember he was good left hand right foot as well a lot of people again don't give him golden port and goals yeah well first chelsea captain to win them the league and so many years as well so i think um that chelsea team under marinho was probably the hardest team i think i've ever seen a goddison to play against because they were just horrible but they had so much ability they did but they knew how to win nasty they knew how to mix it up to the end he was the main not the other all really it is i know it's sad on a professional front that he didn't play in that game the champions league fan i know well he gets buzzed off for getting his kit on but i think i think adding any no but at the end of the day when when you've got pictures of fella why well you want to be part of it so years after when she's after you'll probably go well i deserve to win a medal because i played in all i always find that weird when people when they're playing cup finals i understand where they go like goikina or i didn't win it well you did me because you the semi-final you were amazing you got them there so you deserve to be on the pitch and i think i do exactly the same i throw a kit on and go because when you'd look weird on the pitch as people go oh didn't you when you part of there and be like well i was but so i had no problem with them throwing a kit on i thought that was ingenious i think that's ingenious yeah years later people go oh you must have played in the game you know people forget who played in finals after a while and he missed it he missed the the pen didn't he a couple of years before as well heartache yeah well yeah john terry i think again he's he's a proper centre yeah who's your second defender second one would be his his defensive partner ricardo cavalia oh very uh i just thought them to as a partnership and now people going about vidage and fadna but i actually think cavalia and terry were a better partner great sign i'm from marino and i think he's another one horrible horrible defender yeah but i always remember everton played chelsea in the league cup semi-final at goddison and he was unbelievable that night terry didn't play actually and he he was the reason chelsea got through that game because he was just he was sweet he was really good at like if terry got caught out yeah reading he could read the game brilliant like you see what he'd done he went to realm of jade obviously i know it wasn't his best spell there but he also international level he was he was brilliant he was just a known onsense centre half but he was classy as well the way he did it so cavalia and terry were going moving into my field pole skulls like as a as a midfielder myself i i just love the bloke i thought he could do everything pass five yards pass 50 yards get stuck in bit of horribleness about him again but he was just a he changed his game people forget when he was at united at the very start he was an attacker he was a striker actually yeah he was he was originally a striker so and how he had to evolve his game to actually stay united yeah to to go from the attacking midfielder and he had that i remember he had an eye issue didn't he but then he went deep and like you touch see some of the players you talk about like zadana cavia or these they're not not stupid no they're not stupid there's people have said he's the only one who could have played for barcelona so now he was brilliant and i remember being at a game and we were ever my playing man you're nice and move three and he'll dana half time and i was sitting on top balcony at the time the funny thing is we ended up coming back to get three three and then they scored was that the one that he played right at the top to be a bit of oh no i don't think no i don't think be able to move on this the way things go the last minute goal we pulled we pulled the back front three and he'll dana but i was sitting at the top balcony and i said to me i was with me cousin and he was a very young midfielder and i said no we're gonna just check on that we're just gonna watch both goals haven't funny enough got back into the game but and all he used to do is he used to just run in straight lines open down the pitch and just get the ball and then move it he never went like side to side he just used to run and then get in between and if anyone's seen the gary neville soccer box thing on it when you watch his goals and how he just because all he used to do is just drift just drift through the middle never went anywhere else just drifted through the middle picked up brilliant a time as runs picked brilliant a picking up a little bit of space obviously is a volley and ability was unc was incredible he retired and come back he come back for a man to see that one when someone got a clip of him playing like a five aside and he just picks the ball up and the salt kid down the thing and he's pings into this one the evidence is like unbelievable ability there was one about film ever one of them he always used to in training if someone was going to be in the corner schools used to just practice his passing to try and hit them on the head and one day it's Alex Ferguson on the head and I think film never got the body for it so but he was unbelievable playing probably the only sad part about postcode is no one saw them really it's too quality at international level yeah good enough to play because he was too fixated and put on another thing which was which is crazy but he actually says he didn't mind that because he said he played he said I played left wing loads of times for man United he just said it just wasn't the same so they should have rarely played the diamond and he should have been the head of the diamond because he was he was a great player when he was absolutely brilliant and now he now he really likes toenails here who's your second midfielder Raquel me okay okay he was that nice at the cash machine every year every season now but that game he played at Goddison when he come as a real player he was he was miles ahead of every man like watching him live that night I just thought that is just like this is all levels yeah what we watch every weekend and he went on to obviously have a great international career and he spent a couple of years thinking that he got to Villarreal to the Champions League in the season he missed the pen actually and but as a footballer wasn't the quickest no again bit like skulls just very clever on the ball and like yeah obviously he was like the nearly man wasn't he went to Barcelona and never quite happened for him because they had like Ronaldinho and Messi would have come to a bit later he was never quite when he plays that when he played for like Leicester clubs always shine but when he got a bit a big opportunity I don't think he ever quite did it so no he was he was technically a real player like South American and again he was we obviously nearly seen him in an event yeah we nearly did we nearly did though that was the point we nearly did it was very close a couple of times but it's like running joke though wasn't it yeah but he was yeah class acting like I said that night against Villarreal he was he was unbelievable and the second leg as well he was really good as well so so who's your first forward first forward is Louis Suarez what a player I was just talking to obviously the lads before about him and that time at Liverpool he was unbelievable that's if you played Norwich he's one of those players if he's played for you'd absolutely yeah but you'd hate them if you'd absolutely hate them if you play the ace them and in the Darby's he used to call causes all kinds of problems and he was he was audible but he was he was so talented and he wanted it more than anyone else he wanted it he looked at what he went on after Liverpool as well he went on on one European Cup for all the Leaguers like Barcelona fans are gutters when he left Barcelona he went on to Athletica Madrid won the league with them obviously he had his issues off the pitch which which probably tarnished them in this country at times but he was just a great now he was situations when he used to like he'd have it and he'd knock it against the player and get it back and you'd be like yeah and he'd get through you and you just be like but yeah he was an incredible he was a world-class football yeah he was sensational yeah but unfortunately he played no for a couple of years he ruined many Darby's against us but yeah for like you said from McGarney Neville's home I'll say he's probably one of the best players he's seen in this country yeah he was he was he was incredible he was horrible but he was incredible yeah so go on who's your final player Wayne Rooney Wayne Rooney was like as a footballer he had again he had everything he could play put him at right back put him at left back put him in sentiment fair up front but his goals are goals are united and what he done it united as a player and also England like it doesn't again doesn't get enough recognition because of it's obviously Wayne Rooney and obviously the stuff that goes with him at times but talent wise it's probably one of the best players this country's ever produced and first couple of years he did he did give evidence all the time yeah towards the end he started obviously realizing he obviously he knew he was gonna come back one day and and he did started to not play as well against us which was good but he was just he had everything yeah no and to me fair he sacrificed quite a lot of it for other players like we know though I don't think we truly ever got the player that we face or whatever and coming through consistently through his career he got rough edges got smoothed off and I don't think those those rough edges should have been smoothed off I think he had this something about him that this will so but like like we've just been some old swatters there where is I think I don't even think it was like I don't even think it was like man United or phase and I think it was just we have this thing in this country about like you know the obviously it was you know the people people within the PR world and I remember me during that when it's like 18th birthday he was in like Hello magazine and it was just full of all these you know dial a zed list celebrity like from EastEnders and stuff and all the oaks and he was just like and you could see what PR companies were trying to do to him and mold them because obviously he would be worth millions to them and they didn't want all this bad publicity but there's getting rid of the bad publicity but there's also keeping that thing that hunger that horribleness that desire the thing that you know got him sent off in the well cup but also the thing in the euros that made them the best player in the euros in 2004 that France game he was unbelievable when you show up when anyone says the highlights there's like little video packages of all four in the euros till he broke his toe he was the England would have won it that year and it would have won it all because of him it goes far to say in that tournament he was at that time he was probably one of the best players in the world he was the equivalent of like Gaza in 1990 where he never in a tournament he never played another tournament apart from 96 but he never played another well cup and he never topped that he was he was he was making silly he was making well class players look silly Lillian Cheran on his sitting on his ass this IE on his ass and I think but I think that's what he lost yeah I think he lost that rawness to want to make people look silly you know I remember when he did it at goodness and dad and mom and dad and mom was like you'll never get anywhere and you create doing that it was like shut up you tit yeah like I will who are you um like you know dad and mom doesn't even manage at a higher level than Wayne Rooney now which is but he doesn't know but that that was it and I think what happened at my United was whether for whatever reason whether it was Vegas and whatever those edges those that thing of like I'm going to take the piss out of you today they were they were worn away and I think he became less of a player because of that and he started doing when Ronaldo was at his pump Rooney was doing all the doggy work and again it was like no he should be front and center but still amazing I think that injury done at Chelsea had a lot to play with he done his and he went the World Cup and he should have I don't think that helped him a lot because at that time at United he was unreal yeah he was starting to be the main man and Ronaldo was kind of like yeah yeah and after that I think yeah and I think also do you the do the thing just for that thing as well though is you've seen it with Ronaldo now Rooney clearly didn't he's built this look look at the way he's built he's built like a boxer it's harder it's probably harder for him to maintain the strict away of life in terms of dieting and all that like he's probably the kind of fellow who looks okay you can get fat because I know I am so he must be as well and I think that he just didn't quite have that as well and that that comes from probably that's an internal thing but also that thing that comes from being having the home comforts being a home and all that kind of thing so and you've seen it now is Ronaldo still going very very strong they've had equally as long as clear really and Rooney's now has retired and finished and and I think that shows you the differences as well as that Rooney just didn't have because again though that's the thing of like when he was a kid I don't have to work hard at this because I'm so talented whereas Ronaldo I think probably felt like oh that just that's life and maybe that they just they just come from slightly two different places and I think whereas Rooney's edges were smoothed off that shouldn't have been Ronaldo's edges were smoothed off but by getting rid of those smooth edges you found he had a 12-pack underneath those and and he was just like you know what I really like looking like this whereas Rooney was just like I just want to play full T so but an incredible player incredible player he's an amazing man United's record goals yeah in England I hope it's not I hope Harry King because I don't think Harry King's after play he is no I don't think he deserves to have it but there you go we'll see what happened there you go Steve thank you for your ultimate event team your ultimate team of players who've played against Everton as well it's been a joy speaking with you so we'll have more more of these coming up make sure you check them out don't forget to download the ultimate fan app as well play on that the link is in the description and we'll we'll be back next week see you later