 Here's an unlikely supplement that it can actually help you build muscle, probiotics. It's right. Some studies show that having the right kind of bacteria in your gut increases the absorption of key amino acids. What's that mean? Well it means that the protein that you eat is better utilized for building muscle. This may be why some people can eat less protein and get better gains than other people. Some of the factors, but this may be one of those factors, it's pretty freaking remarkable. Cool thing is that probiotics are inexpensive, they also help with digestion, inflammation, and they just make you feel better. So if you're trying to build muscle, this may be the next supplement you should invest in. On a scale of one being worthless, ten being the best way to use it, where would you rate the way I use my probiotics? Rectally. Describe it. Fuck, I set myself up. Man. Man. Man. The bottle says take it earlier. No. You know how. Jesus, I laid that one up for you. So you use it more acutely. Yes. Right. So the way I'm not very consistent with taking it every single day, but what I'm good about doing is. You do like preemptively. Bad deal. Yes. Yeah. Like I know like Katrina loves burgers, right? That's like her favorite. Yeah, you just put it on her. I do. I do. I'm going to blame her. Blame the wife. Blame the wife. Yeah. I take ownership of my ice cream addiction, but the burgers are her fault. Or pizza, right? Those are two, probably the things. And both those things are just like a gut bomb for me. I know that they're amazing going down, but I can just count on the next 24 hours after that just being like just not feeling great, right? Filling the bloat, the stool being off, et cetera. When I do a good job of remembering to take my seed right before I go into that meal, it really mitigates how I feel from it. So I know it's working and it helps, but honestly, if I had to have you rate me on a scale of one to 10, as far as the effectiveness of that, what would you kind of rate that? So the best analogy I could give would be this, right? So there are clear mood and just general feeling enhancing effects of exercise. Studies will show this, but there's two types, or should I say, two ways that exercise improves the way you feel. One is the acute release of endorphins, immediate release of catecholamines. I feel good. Two is this kind of compounding effect that over time just gives you a better general sense of well-being. What you're experiencing is something like that. So you're getting the acute effects, but what you're missing are the cumulative long-term effects, which I think is where you get, I mean, actually not where I think this is where the studies show most of the benefits come from. So using it on a daily basis, way better. Now, you're still getting some benefit. It's just way better to use it on a- So you're not just playing catch-up, like an intervention kind of a mentality towards it. Yeah, I've been meaning to go in that direction. And it is one of those. You know right away, if you haven't got issues, how hard it is to make progress with your performance in the gym, or whether or not you're trying to alter your composition or anything, it's like, if you're fighting internally, that's just one of those things that's going to set you back. Well, it's easy, right? So you mentioned C, that's a company we work with. So literally, this is how you take them. Before you go to bed on an empty stomach, that's it. Keep it on your nightstand with a little bit of water. Take it right before you go to bed every single night and you're set. But I'm going to, listen to what some of these studies show. Using the right kind of probiotics, bacteria, improves absorption of glutamine. So glutamine is the most abundant amino acid and skeletal muscle. By 116% ornithine, by 100%, tryptophan, by 100%. Citralline, this is the amino acid everybody takes to get a better pump. 128%. Isoleucine, 23%. Isoleucine, 20%. And valine, by 7%. Those are the branch amino acids that people will supplement with to- Wait a second. So by taking that, I'm getting a butter uptake? Is that what you're saying? Correct. Utilizing more than that. Correct. Wow, that's interesting. So it would be like eating less protein but getting the same kind of a result. Now, here's what's interesting about that. And I know it's way more complex, so I'm not stupid enough to think this is the only thing, so it's way more complex than this. But years ago, we interviewed Ben Pacolski, a professional IFBB bodybuilder. Also, one of the smartest people I've ever met. Massive when he was competing, massive bodybuilder. And then now he's tried to reduce his size. He wants to be more athletic, whatever. What's funny about that is he's still giant. But anyway, I remember having this conversation with him. We were interviewing him, and I had this crazy misconception. We were talking about bodybuilders and their crazy genetics. I remember saying, oh, bodybuilders are so genetically gifted to build muscle because this, that, and the other, and man, they must have incredible digestive systems to be able to digest all those calories. And he looks at me and he goes, no. He goes, pro bodybuilders can eat less and build way more muscle. He said somebody who's not like that would have to eat way more to get that food to turn into muscle. A bodybuilder could eat less calories and still build tons of muscle. And this reminded me of that. It's like you're giving 50 grams of protein to somebody, 50 grams of protein to their twin identical circumstances, but this person has an optimized gut, let's say, or they use these probiotics. They're going to utilize more of those amino acids. So it's just so valuable because everyday life is not perfect. Most people are not hitting their protein targets every single day, plus the inflammation, plus the digestive issues, plus all the downstream immune effects that come from that. And probiotics are just, it's an easy, simple, hey, you want to improve your health, hey, you want to sleep better, want better skin, oh, and it builds more muscle. Take this before we go to bed every night and boom, watch what happens. Well, of course, I mean, it's like the goal isn't to just have to eat 6,000 calories at some point to get up like way the hell up there in terms of like, it's about like really using the amount of food to its maximal potential. Doesn't that make you wonder? Like we talk a lot on the show about like, you know, certain people have these like muscle building genetics, that maybe that is actually the biggest part of that. Like it's actually less that they have this like, you know, tendon or skeletal structure or response that happens from it. But it's actually that they can eat significantly less than the average person and utilize the max amount of nutrients. I wouldn't be surprised if that has as much, if not more, to do with what we refer to as like, oh, they have great muscle building. I will never forget this. When I first became a trainer back in 1997, I remember there was this guy that worked in the club, Marvin, OK, and he was a porter. So he cleaned the club. So he didn't work the front desk. And so he literally just cleaned the club. And the dude's arms were just muscular and jacked, in particular, his triceps, his huge triceps. And I remember being like, I was a kid. I was in the building muscle and, you know, you notice these things being very impressed, real nice guy. And I remember being like, oh, man, what does he do? So I remember talking to him and we were hanging out one day and I was making friends with him or whatever. And he's like, man, I got to get back into working out. Well, huh? I'm like, what do you mean you got to get back into working out? I'm like, you look crazy. He goes, well, every once in a while, I'll do some pull-ups and some dips and stuff like that. And I'm like, oh, man, I said, you must eat like crazy. I said, for me to build muscle, I have to like force feed myself. And he goes, no, man, he goes, I don't eat that much at all. And I'm like, what would you eat today? He goes, I had a pop. I swear to God. He goes, I had a pop tart and then this is lunch. I have he was eating a 99 cents cheeseburger. So I totally thought he was full of shit. I remember telling my general manager, who was my good friend, Don, he's one of my my mentors. You guys know he is. And I'm telling him being like, dude, Marvin's full of crap, dude, he's like this and that. He's like totally righted up on whatever he goes. He lives in his car, bro. He lives in his car around the corner. Like I can't even afford a house or to play rant. So I'll never forget that. So that was my first taste of like, that's crazy. You know, the dude barely ate, barely worked out. Justin and I had a guy that worked at Santa Teresa at the same time that we're. So he'll remember him, Jerry, Jerry, and this black dude. And he was, I mean, abs, shoulders shut. The dude was pushing, looked like he could get. He was always two weeks out from stage. Yeah. And you, if you saw, he skipped breakfast. Strong as an ox. Love Taco Bell, you know what I'm saying, eight candy. Like that was like, yeah. And you ask him about his diet. Like that's pretty much what it comprised. And you were just like, what? And then you watch the way he trains and train all crazy. He was strong, strong, strong guys with that. But just, and he looked like that all the time. So for people who are like, thinking like, oh, this is baloney, like look this up. Okay. They don't have studies on muscle building directly yet. They're just studies that show amino acid concentrations going up, which would be a good thing, but they do have studies on animals and fat. And they'll take obese mice and lean mice. And they literally transfer the microbiome of one mouse to the other. And all of a sudden this mouse will become obese. This one becomes lean. Nothing else changes. Yeah. This, it's great. Now it's very complex. And I said, but it's just to go, it just goes to show you how much of an impact this can have. So it's like, you know, if you're just trying to like look better, um, a high quality probiotic is probably something you should include in your arsenal. Well, I'm, yeah, I imagine I was just thinking about that with that study because it's like, yes, you get the immediate benefits of the bacteria that, you know, help you to promote like eating better in your habits and whatnot, like, but overall, like you're, your overall health increases substantially on the internally, which, you know, allows you, I think, to be more in a building anabolic state. Right. Yeah, totally. All right. Today's giveaway program is Maps Performance. This is an athletic muscle building style program. Here's how you can win. Leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we drop it. Also subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. If you win the program, we'll let you know in the comment section. We're also running sale right now. Maps Anabolic is 50% off and Maps Split is 50% off. If you're interested in either one or both of them, just click on the link at the top of the description below. All right, here comes the show. So speaking of working out, I was working out last night at the, uh, fitness 19 in Morgan Hill and, uh, no exaggeration. And not only that, I took a little video clip without looking totally creepy and weird, so I could prove this, this point or what I saw. Six dudes wearing wife beaters. They're all South all under the age of 17, but six. At some point the style is going to come around. Has it ever like, I don't think it left. I think it just, I think it's just, it's very few have continued it on beyond high school is what it is. I think at fitness 19 over there, it seems like all the high school kids all come in and work out at that place and they're all over and they all peel down and black, black wife beaters, gray wife beaters and white wife beaters. It's a, listen, it's less for me about style and more about not caring. It just happened to have it on and this shirt is now hot. I'm going to take it off. I mean, I consider that with my whole like skater, kind of like a surfer. Outfit like I got stuck in like junior high. Yeah. And like, I feel like maybe you still stuck in that mode. You guys in the gym, I don't know, maybe that's your time capsule. I, at some point in my life, shows to wear these. I was born. Well, you kind of do. I was born in this. I was born like this. Listen, I'll show you guys pictures. There's a picture. I got to find it as a picture of me, my cousins and I and some people and we're all sitting there and we're little. We're like two years old. Okay. And I'm like, pick out the freaking ethnic kid. Cause I'm the one with the big ass gold chain and probably to the big old cross and I'm like, oh, that kid looks like his parents came off. Dude, I gotta tell you guys just a great story. Well, I mean, funny story. So we flew back from Phoenix, right? So we come back and meet in the airport. I'm texting with my wife. Okay. So we were in, uh, in Phoenix for a few days. There was a NCI event, which was great. We talked about it in previous podcasts. And during that period of time, um, my wife was, uh, alone with the two kids. And I'm, you know, we're talking back and forth and what's going on. And day one, right? Day one, we're there. Hey honey, how you doing? Good morning. Oh man, terrible sleep. The baby was just, she was up every hour. I think she has a bit of a cold. So I'm like, damn, okay, that's going to hopefully get better sleep. You know, tomorrow night, second night again. Oh my God, terrible. I'm like, oh, this is going to be bad. This is going to be real bad. Uh, at one point I call her, I hear the two year old screaming in the background. You know, again, she's by herself. So I'm like, what am I going to come home to? Like this is going to be, this is going to be crazy. So I land, get on the phone and she's just, you know, wife, it's just, she's losing it. I hear my son screaming. She's upset cause she yelled at him. She doesn't like yelling. She never yells at the kids, but if she does, she feels bad about it. She's trying to put the baby down. He won't let the put, you know, it just, it's nuts. So I'm like, oh my God, this is, this is, I got to get home. So I get in the car, I'm driving and, uh, I call her and all I hear screaming in the background and I hang up, right? So then she facetimes me. Now I can't, when my phone is hooked up to Bluetooth, I can't face time. So I, I'm like, honey, I can't, and I hear my son screaming. And she's like, you better get, I'm going to, I'm going to leave the house. I'm going to leave them by myself. You know, she's losing it, right? So I'm like, hold on, let me disconnect so I can disconnect from Bluetooth so I can call and whatever. So I disconnect from Bluetooth. This is what I'm driving. And then I facetime. So now I'm driving and facetiming. Very dangerous. And I'm supposed to do this, but I'm doing it anyway. And I see my son and I'm like, Hey buddy, I'm going to be home. I'm on my way. It's all good. Meanwhile, CHP. Yeah. I'm on the freeway. CHP rolls by and then hits their brakes and slows down. And I know, oh, they saw me. So I'm like, I'm like, honey, I'm going to have to, I'm going to get, I'm about to get pulled over. I'm about to, this is, I know they're going to, and then they get behind me and I'm still on, but I'm holding this face butt now. Yeah. And I'm holding it down here. I'm like, I got to pull over there and then sure enough lights come on. I'm like, oh, I'm going to get pulled over. So I hang up, I pull over and the dudes come out of the car, right? So now while they're pulling me over, like we're big supporters of, we're big supporters of law enforcement. This is true. You listen to our episodes. We have friends and family and they do a job. A lot of people couldn't do. It's a tough job. So I'm like, I hope they listen to the show. Please guys. I'm like, you know, that would be so rad, you know, if they listen to the show. So I had to pull, I had to pull off the freeway. First of all, and they kept speaking to this loud speaker because I think they thought I didn't know, you know, to pull over. And I'm like, no, I'm trying to get off. And so then they get out and I look in the rear of your mirror. Tell me the guy's jacked. Is he jacked? He's brought odds for you. So listen, they both look like they work out. One of them look like he competed. So you got like a 50-50 shot here. One of them is like, they both look fit, right? But one of them look like he like competed. So I'm like, oh, hell yeah. Yeah, I got it in for sure. Right. So they come up and they look through the window and I'm expecting them to be like, I listened to your show. Oh, thank you, officer, you know, no problem. You want a free program? No, they didn't listen to the show. The dude looks to my car and he goes, and I'm waiting for that. He didn't say anything. He goes, do you know why we pulled you over? Now, you know, as a grown man, as a grown wiser man, knowing that they're doing it, I'm like, they already know. I did the whole lying thing when I was a kid. We try to act like you're smart, you know, and that just backfires. So I'm like, hey, man, I said, I understand you guys doing your job. I said, I was on FaceTime right now. And I just told him the truth. I'm like, my wife's losing her shit. I said, my kid was calling me screaming on the phone. And so they kind of chuckle a little bit, you know? And I'm like, yeah, dude, I had to FaceTime my kid because like my wife was like losing it and the kids were losing it. And we're going, you know, I'm telling the whole story. And the guy's like, you know, licensed in registration. I said, here you go. And I look at the dude. That's all Jack. I'm like, you don't listen to my show. Oh, no, this is what it was. I go, they go, where were you coming from? I saw I came from work. Like, what do you do for work? I said, and I'm like, oh, here's my chance. I'm like, oh, I'm the host of Mind Pump. Nothing. Shows, like raises glasses. So the Jack dude, right? I'm like, you don't listen to my show. He's like, no, no, I've heard of it. I'm like, well, I figured you would, bro. You look like you. So we started talking about working out. Yeah. Then I'm talking about kids with the guys and back and forth. And then he takes my license back, checking it comes back. Like, are you guys married? And I'm like, no, man, we're not married. I don't want to get married. I don't want to have kids. And I'm like, you know, you got to have kids. It's the greatest thing. I said, but they're losing their shit. You don't even know. So then I FaceTime my wife. I was talking to them. Yeah. And Jessica is on the line and she's like, I got to get back to the kids right now. You can't be on it. And then I hang up. So they heard her like, do that thing. So the guy's like, you get back to your wife, man. Don't worry about it. Like, bro, like you guys don't have to let me off. You could totally give me a ticket. They're like, no, go just next time. Don't do that or whatever. I'm like, thank you, God, bro. Hopefully they're listening now. Yeah. Cool. This guy's ever, you didn't have to let me off. He totally couldn't give me a ticket because I totally broke the law. But I thought that I saw the jack guy. I'm like, for sure. Yeah. Don't listen. I would done it in such a concert room like reminder of like, you know, how much more potential of growth the show has. It's like when we, I think it's crazy when we go. He says he's heard of us though, but. Yeah. I feel like if you work out like really consistently, you probably have, because you've probably come across a TikTok clip or like, I mean, the amount of views is in the billions when you count all the platforms. So with that, so the likelihood if you're hardcore fitness, you may have came across it. There's obviously a large chance you have never listened to the show, but most people that I see that are like that fit have like somewhat heard of it at least, right? But I mean, still, you know, it's like, it trips me out. I can go in these gyms sometimes and I mean, especially this fitness 19 that I've been going to, I mean, it's like this whole generation of like young lifters and ain't nobody know the hell we are. Is it like a dog's pooping outside dead lift? Oh, dude. Hey, so the first two days, okay, I've lifted there now like, I think, I don't know, maybe like six, five or six times now, maybe more or no. Somewhere around there. The first two days, I haven't been in a commercial gym. I remember for like almost three, three and a half years or so, right? So the trainer in me comes out, I can't help it. I see like two, two young high school guys coaching each other, trying to figure out, he's doing a lat pull down. Yeah, yeah. And the guy just can't figure out. Are you the old guy now that comes out? Oh, I did. I take my headphones off. I say, hey, you want me, but we go, it's cool though. The kids were just like, like, yeah, yeah. No, they were totally appreciative. No idea who I was. And, and showed them how to show them a little tip. And then you saw the kid like get it right away. And he was like, whoa, he's like, thank you. I'm like, yeah, no problem. So I've done that the last couple of times. I'm like, okay, I got to stop doing that because I don't want to become like the main. You're going to be the guy. Yeah, then everybody starts asking me, and I won't be able to go there. I can't forget my work. This guy knows what's up. Yeah, I don't like to talk to nobody. You know, it's hard though for me, especially when I see two, two, two genres of people, young, young boys trying to figure out, young kids, right? Young, elderly. Try, or elderly, right? Those two. Elderly, I will. And if they're in my, right in my vicinity, and it's like, okay, I got like a little thing. Yeah, I feel the same. Then I feel this like, let me give you a little tip on that to help you out. I by no means am I cruising the floor looking for people to help. No, there's just one woman that, she's this old Asian woman. She's probably 70-something, so like that old. And she literally works out in like black slacks and like a grandma sweater, so she works out. But every time she, and this has happened like 10 times, she'll catch eyes with me while I'm working out, and she gives me this smile and this nod. Very sweet woman. Very, very sweet woman. So I started doing something that helped her out the other day, and she gave me a little high-five. Thank you. So now every time I see her, she's so cute. She's a, I wanted to give her a hug, but then I'd be like, eh, she'd be like, Are you, so are you consistently, because I'm bouncing around now to several gyms. Not one gym. You're the same one. You haven't graduated from that, huh? That gym is good for me. Well, because I feel like it, because it's full of older ladies. You know what I'm saying? It's perfect. It's perfect. That's perfect. So it calms me down. You're the strongest person to always... That's it, dude. Yeah. I want to be the... You're always the strongest person. Being the hero. You're the jackedest guy. Yeah, you're always the jackedest guy. So all the ladies come up, feel your biceps. Yeah, you're the most jacked guy. You're the strongest. So I like, I like one of that gym too, but it's normally on my way up. And then I start feeling myself like, okay, I need to be humbled. Let me go to the gold, or let me go to the more American barbell, where... I just, I don't want to work out. I don't want to talk to nobody. I just want to just do my thing and just... I haven't branched out yet. I haven't even been to the commercial spots. How long is it? Since the freaking pandemic. I haven't even been. You haven't at all. You know, you ought to do it. It's been an interesting experiment. I've been thinking about it. It's been an interesting experiment for me. Justin doesn't like bodybuilder gyms. That's why. As soon as he sees bodybuilders, he wants... Yeah, but he can go to like... I'll go to like... Trainers, car, fitness, or yeah, American barbell or whatever. I mean, I was all into gold's gyms so it was more of the ones of the serious guys. Not like the commercial 24 and the people that think they're bodybuilders and they're just douchebags. That's different. No, the actual ones that are like cool. I was thinking about going back to Santa Cruz Power just because I like the vibe there and everything and they still have platforms and there's people doing powerlifting on top of bodybuilding. You know, truth to be told, I think I would prefer to not work out in a gym with that many like really serious people because it might... If I think... I'm trying to put myself there mentally. It might trigger my ego. It might make me want to add weight to the bar and do shit that's probably not good. Yeah, I feel like I've... Me personally. Yeah, no, I feel like I've been so devoid of even being around anybody for so long. There's no ego, dude. Like I honestly feel like I can ramp it up a little bit. Don't give a shit at all. I mean, that's kind of how I feel, Justin. That's why being in that kind of environment has been good for me is... I think the biggest thing... My biggest takeaway right now of the difference of my training in the last, let's say, a couple months now compared to the previous three years, because don't get me wrong. I enjoyed the training at home and training in here for the last three years. You guys converted me, I'd say, over to that. The things that I'm enjoying or the perks I see now to being in the commercial gym, is it because I have to drive there? If, like, say what happened, I'd tell you guys before in the past, at home. If there's times where I'd say, hey, you know what, I'm just going to go and get squats. And sometimes that's all I would do. Sometimes it... Which was awesome, because I was like, hey, that's better than not doing anything or talking myself out of going to the gym, where now I still have that same conversation, like, I'm not really feeling it today, I'm just going to go do this. But you already drove there. But I already drove there, and it's like the effort to park, to get out of the car, to walk, and to do all that stuff like that. It's like, am I really just going to go five minutes and then walk out? Like, no. I'm going to maybe I'll do one more. It's easier to talk myself into more intensity, more volume. And I think I need that right now. I've been on the other end of, like, maintaining my health, strength, physique, mobility for the last three years. Like, I'm on this kick right now of, like, trying to make moves. And in order to make moves, it's helped me be more mobile. So how many gyms are you going to? So I have 24, Fitness 19, 24, American Barbell. American Barbell. Those three. Yeah. And then, of course, here and here at home. I saw, dude, I saw this video that I, for sure, want to replicate. And there's people send me videos all the time, people doing funny things and skits and gyms and whatever and whatnot. But this one was, like, sent from my friend, who actually played in a band with, he was like our drummer, and he's like, dude, we need to do this. And these guys, they put together, like, this metal band, and they were behind these guys working out. Like, they just went into a commercial gym and started playing when the guy was about to do, like, a PR attempt. And they're, like, playing metal and stuff for him to, like, perform. I was like, dude, that would be so epic. Like, you're about to, like, lift your heaviest lift, and then you have your own band there, just, like, hyping you up. You know what? The most complaints I ever got running gyms would be close-out. I would always have a DJ spinning live music at the gym. Did you ever bring a real band or just, like, a DJ? Never, actually, no. We brought a Mariachi band. Oh, crap, I did the same thing. We used to have Capitol McKee every close-out. We had a Mariachi band in once, too. Yeah, dude. Did you guys get complaints? Well, I'm probably crushing that area, yeah. We did, but we had a lot of people that loved it because it was an East Side San Jose. You know what I'm saying? Jay Subio hooked that up all the time. You know what I'm saying? That's hilarious. No, I had a guy spinning live music and it always sold more memberships, but the members hated it because I have BS speakers. Of course. Whatever equipment was near the speakers, you were going to get your ears blown out. Yeah. Yeah. You know, but we would do it. But, you know, back to the CHP thing. When's the last time you got pulled over by CHP and they didn't give you a ticket? They don't do that. They'll pull your ass over. That's their job is to give you a ticket. Like. I made friends with a guy. It was like, he played rugby and I was like, at the time, I was like on my way to a game and I was like speeding like crazy. And so I used that because I was like wearing my uniform and stuff and we kind of, you know, but that was it. Normally, I get a ticket immediately. I got, I got nailed. The last CHP got me, it got me like two years ago and I was in my white car heading back from the country, I was in the country out in the middle of nowhere, but I was Matt. I was like doing a hundred. I think it got me like 90 something. Yeah. You look suspect though. He let me go. What? Yeah. I think because I had Katrina in the car. I'm saying. He's like, we can't be that bad. Yeah. We look. Yeah. We look. And I don't know why we didn't have that. He's been trying to impress us though. I wouldn't be doing a hundred with Max. Yeah. Yeah. And I didn't have to make up some crazies. I didn't say, oh, we're in a hurry. This is that. I honestly said, man, honestly, I didn't even look down at the speedometer. I said, this thing just rides so smooth we're out in the middle of nowhere. I didn't see it in the car. I said, didn't realize I got up to that. Sorry. I think if you're honest, you probably have a better chance. Of course. I used the whole thing when I was a kid. I'd be like, I don't know why it's officer. What did you? I wouldn't you? I mean, if I was a cop and you were just straight up like, oh man, my bad, bro, you got me. Or just, just. I got hammered when I was a kid because I lied because I did a burnout and then I got pulled over and the cops like, do you know why I pulled an act? It's stupid. Like, no, I don't know why. And I think he wanted to like teach me a lesson because I was a young kid. So he's like the whole scared straight thing. So he freaked, you know, the car and he like put me up on the hood. Swear to God, dude. Spread out cheeks. No burnout. Hey, didn't go that bad. Were you hiding or never doing burnout again? Were you hiding your license? I ain't key string anything. God, swear. No, no, no, no. Put me on the hood. He put my hands behind my back, handcuffed me. My cousin was in the car. This is why he's hard to weird stuff. Now we know where it stems from. It was that imprint right there. Left, right. It's imprinted. I was being asked. Right, yeah, yeah. T-day cheers. You're already probably thinking about, you're on your way to go beat off, I'm sure. It's 16, 17 years old. Always. Yeah. Where are you going right now? Always bringing them handcuffs on the trips. Yeah, I guess that. Hey, honey, before I climax, can you push me down the hood of the car? Real hard. No, that's not what happened. That's not what happened. Anyway, those guys are great. Shout out to those guys. Shout out for letting you go. I wasn't turned on, but thank you very much. That's cool that you got out of it. That's an idea. That's awesome, because you're right. That doesn't happen that often. You know, I think too, I think that's right. In that fight, I came home. You know what's funny? And I come home, and my toddler who was like losing his mind, he was so cute. He was standing on, you know, on the porch or whatever. Just real not in his little pajamas, whatever. Just standing there, because Jessica's like, going outside for your dad. He's just standing there waiting for me, and I get out. And he's like, hi, bubba, all sweet. And like, you would never know this kid was just throwing herself out 20 minutes ago. Katrina says, we're going to try this trip. Obviously, it's a little early to like teach him like really calendars and days, but she notices when I'm, if I'm gone beyond two days, he starts to get like irritable and he's constantly asking, where's daddy? Where's daddy? Where's daddy? And so this trip coming up, where we're gone for more than that, she's going to try and like, okay, like get the calendar out and be like, okay, this is today. Daddy leaves this day. This is when daddy returns, and then like X the days off, so we can kind of somewhat teach him like the idea of time and days and stuff like that. So this course I've been taking, this good inside course. Dr. Becky, she's incredible. She talks about telling stories to your kids, and you can do it through play. Like, you know, he's got like dinosaurs and, oh, daddy dinosaur is going to go on a trip, but he'll be back and then you, you know, you walk through the emotions. He's sad. You know, he really misses daddy, but daddy always comes back, or your son's old enough. You could just tell them, you could tell him, hey, next week, and do it way in advance. Hey, next week, I'm going to be out of town for, you know, four days, and then you show him on the calendar, and then you tell him again two days later, and then the day before. Okay, I'm going to be gone, but when I get back, and it actually makes a big difference to do stuff like that. Yeah, it'll be interesting. I'll report back, because that's exactly what Katrina and I are doing on this trip coming up is already starting to plant the seed with him now. And so, because she's already started a piece of that together. One night, two nights, I'm gone, not a big deal, stuff like that. He's normally having fun doing his thing, and then by the second night, or the third night, the third day, he's already like, where's daddy, where's daddy, where's daddy. We did a blood test for food intolerances. We're going to do a blood test for Aurelius, and I did this. I actually tested it. I did it with his stuffed animals, like four days before, then I talked about it the day before, then the lady showed up, and he was like, you could tell he's still scared. They're going to put a needle in his arm, but he was like, because I walked him through exactly what's going to happen, then we're going to put on the Kindle, then you're going to watch this, I'm going to hold you down, and I have to hold your arm tightly so you don't move, and he was like, prepared. It totally worked. It's the weird, it's the crazy thing. You see, that's funny you bring that up. There's a viral video that's going around that I just saw in the last few days of a light, and it's like, it's like a TikTok, and it's like the best doctor in the world, and it's the doctor giving a kid a shot, and it's like a kid, like our kid's age or younger, and he's just so smart with the way he plays with like the needle covered, and then pretends like he's poked some, and he's laughing, giggles, and he slides back, and then he brings it again, and he keeps touching the kid with the needle protected, so he realizes like him coming towards him and doing that, it doesn't hurt or whatever, and then he like distracts him real quick, and just sinks it in. It's really the anticipation. Yeah, 100% it's that. It's this anticipation of this thing, stranger coming at you with this needle, and he did this, showed this doctor like setting it up, and I'm like, oh my god, like that's like an amazing dog. So much of it is psychological. There's, you know, I know people, I know adults that pass out from getting their blood. Yeah, I met some of the biggest dudes I know that are like that. They're just like, oh. You know, that's my least, that's my least, like I stress out about that. I do not like, I don't like my blood taking. Wait, like really stress out? Yeah, well I'm not like really, I'm not stress cadet, like I don't like it. I mean, my level of stress, you know what I'm saying, you're a hyper-contact people, you're like, yeah. We're talking about you right now. Yeah, well I'm admitting I stress out, but not that level of stress out, you're like crazy stress out. Next level. I just don't, I can't, I don't like looking at it, and it is, it's like, it's crazy. You can't look at it, you gotta look at it. Yeah, and I just, it makes me feel lightheaded. I feel lightheaded from it. No matter what I've done for food, water, I've done all the stuff, fast it doesn't matter. Did you have a bad experience when you were a kid or something? Not that I know of, I don't have a, I don't recall a memory, although I, it's like hit or miss, maybe one in four. Left it in there a few longs. No, hit me bad, where you get like the bruise and everything like that. I've had that, yeah. Yeah, and that fucking hurts. And then they've missed it a few times. Like did I have such obvious things I'm like, I'm a fucking roadmap. You can't get it, you can't get it in there. So it's, yeah. Some people are terrible at it, but what if you get a toy afterwards or a sticker? Maybe, maybe, maybe they give me a lollipop. Dude, I gotta confess, like I do feel guilty about this. So Everett, poor guy, he's just riddled with like poison oak, like all, like the worst, like I remember, I don't know if you guys have ever had like a really, really bad. I've never had it. Dude, like I forgot, I had it real bad when I was a kid and then after that it was, I never had it again really, but pretty much like had it so bad I got immune to it after that. But, so like I'm starting to kind of trace back. I'm like, okay, wait, so this is like when we started seeing signs of the rash and now it's getting worse. And it was literally when we had our Easter egg hunt and I was like out there just like, you know, throwing eggs. No, he's not going to get this one. You know, like throwing it way out there in my backyard. You threw it in poison oak. Yeah, dude, right in his patch of poison oak. Wow. He got some jelly beans. Completely like setting him up for filling. Yeah, yeah. Jesus rose again. Also your skin, you know, sorry about that. Is it everywhere? I mean, it's like patchy on his arms, but like really it's his legs are like bubbled out. Aren't you supposed to do like an oatmeal bath? Yeah, oatmeal bath, kalamite, kalamite lotion. Yeah, kalamite, all that. But there's actually like some decent products now that are like, you know, it doesn't sound like it because it said like homeopathic medicine. And I'm like, oh God, you know, like just the title of that because I grew up, my mom was like very homeopathic everything. And like, no, this doesn't work. Give me the drugs. It's all sugar. Stop rubbing your crystal ball. Apparently their ointment stuff is legit. And so this was like expensive, it was like $70 like stuff. And tried it out. And it was definitely taking it down quite a bit, but we still had to take it to the doctor. You know, it's the case. So, you know, I've heard crazy stories where people like will eat it to make sure they don't get it or something after that. And in low amounts to kind of really get a hermetic effect. Yeah, you would think there would be some sort of a pill or something that you could take. If you live in an area that has that, and that way your system can get adjusted to it. I've never heard anybody do that, but I heard like the theory of it kind of makes sense. Bro, I have an uncle. This is a true story. Now this is my grandfather's generation. I have to say that because if I tell the story, you guys will be like, what was wrong? So my grandfather's generation, and these are all like, they came from Sicily and they were poor Sicilians. Okay, when I say poor, I mean literally, I told you guys this before, like my grandfather lived in a cement square with, you know, nine siblings, the donkey and his parents. Like they all stayed the same. This is the donkey. The donkey really in there? In there when it was too cold. The donkey had to be in that. Yeah, they were poor, poor, right? That's like a movie. Yeah, like poor ports where, you know, he wore holla big shoes until they fit and then they became sandals and they did 50 more. So that's up for this. Because his mom would cut the toe off. Anyway, my uncle came here and he's from that generation, my grandfather's. And they were up in the hills or something doing work, working. I don't remember what they were doing. I think they were doing, you know, tending someone's land or something. And look, old school Sicilians, when they would go work in the mountains or in the hills, there's no bathroom. There's no outhouse. You just go to the bathroom and there's no toilet paper. You use leaves, you use plants to wipe your butt. Oh, God, God. You use poison oak. I know where this is going, yeah. Oh, I swear to God. He wiped himself with poison oak and got poison oak up and all up and down his butt crack. Woo! Yeah. That makes me itchy right now. Yeah, that's a true story right there. So, yeah, I know. Poor guy. Just imagine. I don't wish out anybody. I've seen the lashes. Hey, are you following all the stuff on our show all in on the chat GPT stuff? Oh, wow. It's pretty wild, right? You know what's crazy about it is, and he's in the right, that the advancements that we've seen in technology, like the iPhone one came out and then iPhone two took what, two years later? Or year or two. Or year or two like that. These are mind blowing advancements that are coming out like weeks later. Like they have something called auto GPT, which is a GPT AI that asks other AIs for help and they work with each other and prompt each other to find solutions. So, these guys, remember, the guys on that show, these are like tech moguls. AI improving AI. Yeah, these are tech moguls. These guys are like, they're brilliant at what they do. They're Silicon Valley giants, right? They were saying that these AI, chat GPT type things are going to replace startups, startups. Like your whole staff, 100 people who write code and all that are gone. Dude, like you said, it's so fast. It's like you can't even really comprehend no where we're going to be. No, it's crazy. No, I keep trying to, I've been telling family and friends and just to, and the key is this, like I don't have this, you know, scarcity mindset where it's like, oh, don't let it happen or, you know, avoid it at all costs because it's going to take over our jobs and you're not going to have a job. It's more like, you know, it's very similar to the internet, just unbelievably more disruptive and faster. And so it's like, don't be the person who when the internet was coming on board going like, oh, we're never going to do that. We're never going to buy things online. Oh, we're like, don't be that person and go like, instead going, you know, how is this going to be integrated into my current profession? And how can I learn about it and potentially adopt it or utilize it to improve or enhance my own skill sets? Well, what they were, nobody listened to the, the halt then is what you're saying. No, and, and you, how are they going to regulate this? Yeah, well, that's too late. They put it out there. It was like, hey, everybody pulled, put the brakes on. And, you know, of course, there was, they're talking about, right, listen, there's right now, right now, okay? This isn't like, oh, this is what's going to happen in the future. They have these, these AI engines that you, that will convert your text into animation. So I could write a story and it, and now I'm watching that. Now I'm watching it. And they're like, oh, within a few years, director is going to be able to go in and create a motion picture through text. Well, as you can say in there, oh, you know what, make this character a little bit more this way, or make sure that the UFOs land, and you're going to just create a movie. Just the notes then manifest. Isn't that, isn't that, that's how we use, do the newsletter one right now, right? Justin, like, I don't know if you're- That's for the images, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it literally reads what Darren had wrote, that, that page. Spits out of there. And then it creates an image based around it. And it's so far, I don't think we've edited or I mess with it's been on the spot on. No, there's been a few that we've switched out, but like, yeah, it's, it's, it's just a cool feature because it's like, it, it, you can look at it and you're like, oh, I could see how that kind of interpreted and added those, you know, key words in there. Like, you could find it, it's weird. And so, do you know, are, are you actually prompting it or is it still, what's the space? Yes, Jesse's still. Jesse's still prompting it. And then I- Cause it'd be interesting if, if you did what Sal just said, which is like, you get it and you go like, oh, I like that, but like, could you make it more like this? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you can. Yeah. Oh, I see. And well, then there's different styles too. If you can do different styles based off of like the artists are based off of- That you like or whatever. Yeah, like what kind of, like mood you want to put out, you know. Yeah, you guys see the one that's going around right now? I saw, I thought Andrew sent maybe the one, did you send me the Drake and Kanye one? There's like a Drake and Kanye, they're now- Someone wrote a song and it just- Yeah, the AI did it. The AI said, you know, write a Drake and Kanye song or something and, and like sounds like them, like it's, and it's not half bad, dude. It's like, and this is early. Organic human produced. That's going to be a label. It has to be a thing. How, but- It's going to be a label, bro. Like when you go to the grocery store and you see those big ass perfect looking strawberries and you're like, that's not organic. So my- I want to get them ugly ones. My brother-in-law, we were actually texting about this last night and he says, so he, his son, my nephew is in high school and he's got him listening to all these AI generated pages that these kids are already following music that is being created by that and what they're doing is they're doing exactly that. They're taking their ripping from a Kanye or a Drake or what that. And then the AI exists. And then the AI is created. What I'm wondering is how the, how are they going to stop this? And then what happens to the person like Kanye who had all the, had all these rights? It's really just accelerating what we do anyways. Like in terms of like, if you're an artist, like you're inspired and your muse is, comes from all these different backgrounds of how you grew up and what kind of, you know, impact they had, but like you're trying to replicate that and you're kind of coming up with something that's sort of a hybrid. And so this is just like, just completely adding gasoline to everything. Yeah. The part that's, forget all the Armageddon like crazy stuff. This is the part that makes me nervous is that it's improving and changing faster and faster at a silly, ridiculous rate that we, how do you prepare for that? Like, how do you say to yourself, let's say you're a kid. We're obviously not. I mean, look at the world right now. Look, that's what I mean. Look, it's fucking crazy. Let's say you're a kid going to school right now and you're like, I'm going to do computer science. And they're like, oh, in a year, AI is going to do all the coding and computer science will be gone. You would never think that, right? Yeah. How would you prepare? Well, I think, what work am I going to do? I mean, I think this, I think that's going to be a class before you know it. I mean, they already have classes. Yeah. But by the time you're done with the class, literally, you'll be done with the class, it'll be obsolete. Didn't they say like, if you have a doctorate or PhD in AI, that it's already like a million dollar like salary waiting for you right now. Right now. Right now. Okay. So where you're, what you're saying is, I don't think that's, I think we, and I think SAC said this on that show. I think we're decades away from complete startups being obsolete or like staffs being completely obsolete. We're still, the transition is going to be how people integrate it into their, the current way of doing things. And so I think for the next decade, if you learn how to utilize these tools, you're going to 10x your value. And I think that you got a good run for a while before that. And then hopefully if you're You're going to grab it as quick as you can right now. Yeah. And then I think if you're that ingrained in that for the next decade, you're also going to be the one who sees it first when it's transitioning away from that, right? Or evolving beyond that. Okay. Fine. A decade. That sounds like such a long time. No, it's not. No, go back, go back in time 10 years from now. Yeah. I know. Today is different, but is it so radically different from 10 years ago that you wouldn't be recognized? Right? No. You could go back in time, forward in time to today and people are like, wow, that's cool. That's cool. But it wouldn't be like, where am I? That's how fast this is progressing to the point where we had- The digital space. So, ever you compare digital versus the physical environment, I think the digital space is going to look like nothing we've seen before. I don't know, man. It's weird because chat GPT-1 came out when? Yeah, not that long ago. Yeah. Now they have auto GPT. It was like months. Yeah. You know, months later. But like 10 years from now, dude, you know? This rate? That's why I'm like, ah. So, I think- It's anxiety. I do think it will simultaneously build even more value for human connection, though. Do I necessarily mean there's going to be more of that? No. But I do think it'll build more value in that. What do you mean? Like there'll be- Oh, you mean you'll make it more- Desirable. Oh, because it'll be more scarce. Yeah. Like for example, like, I mean, there's nothing that stops like this in the next five years, the ability for someone to create this exact show. Right? The dynamic off of our personalities, AI-generated versions of us, everything pumping out. But then- I saw those pictures that you texted us. Oh, that was my cousin created that, prompted something, and it just did some crazy stuff. We were like, Buffter and Cooler. Yeah. Immediately, I was like- I don't like mine though. Yeah. I don't like mine either. AIBs. We guys look cool. I don't like mine either. I didn't think mine looked cool at all. I didn't think mine looked like me very much. But anyways, so like what we just did with NCI, right? Okay. The impact that we've had on people's personal lives, the desire for them to fly there and to meet us and to share that and for us to connect and talk to them in person and have drinks with people and that sense of community and the endorphin rush that you get from that being in person with people, I think that as we go more and more digital and more and more AI, that that will be a hotter commodity because it'll be more and more rare. It's like romantic. Yeah. You know? Because it's not necessary anymore. But it's like people will look fondly back at like person-to-person interactions and like those type of like events. But I don't- It's just going to be so different. It'll be like- Remember the movie Demolition Man? With Sylvester Stallone in the future or whatever? And remember when he had sex with Sandra Bullock? The way they had sex in the future. Oh, it was like this. They hooked up like their helmets or whatever. Sensor ever touched each other. Yeah. And he's like, no, we're going to do this like the old fascist. He's like, you mean we're going to have like airy fluid swap? Swap on us? Yeah. And you had to like talk her into it or whatever. It's going to be like that. You shook someone's hand or you touched it. You know how many germs are going to be on there? You're like a neanderthal. Oh, disgusting. Disgusting. I don't know. I think that we've already- There's enough, you know this too because you're the study guy. There's enough studies already to show the importance of human connection. We've seen those. There's lots of studies that show a lot of stuff. I mean, people do it, bro. You all know. And I'm not, I don't disagree. They're going to see a lot of people go in that direction. I think that we see that you're right. There's a lot of studies that show that you shouldn't do this or shouldn't do that. And people still do anyways. But I think at the same time that it will also make that in-person connection thing as valuable or more valuable. It'll be because it'll become more rare. It'll become more rare just like anything else in this world that's rare. It's more sought after. It's more expensive because- Speaking of studies, there was somebody that- I don't know if we had them on the show. They messaged me. They might have been on the show or I might have messaged them in our Instagram. Somebody who was having issues with sleep and they had a lot of caffeine and we recommended that they lower and then replace the caffeine with the red juice from Organifi. Oh, yeah. The response literally solved their problem. That's awesome. Completely solved their problem. They're like, I did the red juice. I had a little bit of withdrawal and now I only do the red juice and I have the energy and I feel good and I don't have the insomnia or any of those issues like that. My performance has improved. So great feedback. Do you attribute that- I might have asked you this before but I forgot what you said if you did. Do you attribute that to one specific adaptogen in there or mushroom or do you think it's- No, it's got a combination. I mean, I think the main drivers are the rhodiola and the cordyceps that are in there. But it's got beet juice or beet root powder in there and some other stuff that. But I mean, if you're trying to wean yourself off stimulants, that's a great way to do it. A great way to do it because stimulants are hard to come off of. Yeah, cool turkeys. That's pretty terrible. You're going to have like a week of like depression. Yeah. You know? No, I had nudes, you know. That was a huge hack for me. I love- that's exactly what I do anytime I scale back on the caffeine is I just- and I don't feel any withdrawal that way. It's like a smooth transition for me to- and I just go, you know, if I'm drinking, let's say the max I'll hit is starting to get in three, four range of like, you know, either energy drinks or coffees, I just replace each one with the red drink and then it get to where I get all the way down and then it feels like- Makes a huge difference. Huge difference. All right, I'm going to talk about something negative. I saved it towards the end here because- I don't want to crap everybody. Gabe, get it off the chest. Gabe's dug what's- I'm not trying to crap everybody. Carve it off the end. Everybody out. So have you guys heard- I wrote it down. The bill, it passed the Washington, the state of Washington's house. It passed. SB 5599. Do you guys hear about this? Tell me- Tell me you don't hear about this, but- You know about it? Yeah, but I want you to go into depth with this. Okay, so it's being politicized, which means the information from both sides is not entirely correct, although I do think this is really going down the wrong path. So here's what the bill- Here's what the bill says. It's all sort of proposals. Yeah, the bill- Now, people on the right are tweeting stuff like this, and I'll read to you kind of what the tweets say, because- And I know the right and left do this and the noise of shit out of me, but here's what the right- I'll give you an example of what the right is saying. Last night, Washington state passed SB 5599, which allows the state to legally take children away from their parents if they don't consent to the child's gender transition surgeries. Whoa, is that real? Is this true? Kinda. Kinda. So here's what the actual bill says. And yeah, it infuriated the shit out of me, too. Because that's alarming, but yeah, let's get into the details. It infuriated the shit out of me, too, but here's what the bill actually says. If a kid runs away, the state, if they're minors, is required to let the parents know, hey, we have your kid. And I think they have, like, 48 hours to do so. But there are exceptions, like, if they really think the kid's gonna be abused, sexually, or beaten, or it's a dangerous environment, in which case, then the state tries to protect them. Okay? But there's very specific exemptions. They included now the kid running away saying, my parents do not approve of my gender transition, so I don't wanna go back home. And that means now that the state doesn't have to tell the parents, and the child can go through with hormone or gender transition procedures. So not quite as crazy as what the tweet is. Still crazy, though. Still open up a can of worms. Still crazy, though. I think it's so crazy. Here's what I think. I'm gonna, you know, I gotta go off on this a little bit. I think it's insane that, I don't know why there's no logic here. A kid can't consent to a tattoo, but they can consent to hormones or puberty blockers or surgeries. That doesn't make any damn sense to me as a minor. If you're an adult, do what you want. But as a child, that's crazy to me. And they've put this under, now it's because they're saying we're trying to protect LGBT youth and all that stuff. And it's like, look, if you're trying to protect them from being abused, that's already there. That was already in the law. But if it's just now they've included that, that means technically a kid could say, my parents don't approve of me taking testosterone or whatever. And then they're like, we're not gonna tell your parents. And that's fine. We'll tell the state. Now you belong to the state, I guess. Insane. Yeah, but at what point, I mean, are we considering that, because yeah, if that's the case and kids have the ability to then decide these major life altering decisions themselves, like they're gonna be able to advocate for all other different types of decisions that are adult driven decisions. Like how do you stop that from going any further than that? It's insane to me. It's not. Because we're the parents, it's your job because it's the formative years of development. They haven't figured it all out. We're supposed to protect and watch over them. That is our job. Yes. And there's always shitty parents out there. There is. No doubt. Like there's situations where it's probably toxic and terrible. No, this is, it's crazy to me. I don't get, like a kid can't go get a car loan. A kid can't, back in the day, we used to rent movies at Blockbuster. If you were a minor, you couldn't go rent movies. They can't get a credit card. They can't get a tattoo. They can't drink. They can't smoke. But they can say, hey, I feel like I'm... I don't want to pee anymore. Yeah. Or put me on hormones, which have profound psychological effects. For anybody who doesn't believe that, you're an idiot. They have, like, if a man's testosterone is too low or estrogen is too high or a woman's hormones are off, she feels it. You're going to do this to a kid? What's the protocol then for having therapy? Like in terms of like, you know, any kind of medical procedure like that, is there a period where they have to go through counseling? Used to be. Right? Like what does that look like and why would that be removed? It used to be, to my knowledge, that if a child, a kid felt this way, that they had to really go through lots of therapy, really work with doctors. But now it's now affirming where if the kid says it, then the assumption is we believe you and then we take the steps from there. It used to be, oh, you feel this way, let's talk about it, let's figure this out, see what's going on or whatever. Which to me, it looks like a huge skip of steps in terms of them really understanding the magnitude of that decision. No, this is absolutely insane to me. It's crazy. Yeah, I don't know how I feel about stuff like this anymore. I think that when I hear shit like that, I think probably in the past would probably get me all fired up and enraged. I just think of what I hear is just the pressure as a father to really make sure that I'm communicating with my son and the pressure of not allowing the school system and the government to plant seeds without me having those conversations with him beforehand or immediately thereafter because the pressure for a parent to not fall asleep at the wheel is going to be, because if you don't raise them on every aspect of life, then the school or the government will. And if you don't align with a lot of the values that these schools are teaching and the government is presenting, then I better be on my fucking A game to be ahead of all this stuff because getting upset and trying to fight it and I feel like that's a losing battle, right? Like I think it's wrong. I don't know. I feel like your kid could go to a drug dealer and you expect a drug dealer to be a piece of shit and sell your kid drugs. You don't expect that to come from an authority, a doctor, or their teacher, you know? I mean, I agree with you, Sal. We just had a live Q&A and I was appalled by a university professor sharing Netflix game changer documentary to the classroom and telling them that meat gives you cancer. You're a fucking PhD, a college professor, and you're presenting like, so that scares me just this month. I'm not even a nutrition, yeah. And yes, you're supposed to be able to trust the, no, and so I look at it, no, I don't. I don't trust any school. I don't trust any teacher. I don't trust any government official to educate my child on damn near anything. Yeah, these are on minors, dude. They're not even adults. That's the part that's... Yeah, I mean, that's... There's cases, there's literal cases of, there was this one mother, she went to the school board, it's filmed, you can find the video, where her daughter, her, she got, something happened, her husband died, then she got diagnosed with, the mom got diagnosed with some disease, so the child was super traumatized. The kid went to the school and said, I feel like I'm a boy. The school put the kid on hormones and never told the mom. At all, until the mom started noticing, like, what's going on with my daughter, something different. Insane, insane. So, but what we don't know, in a situation like that, right? Like we, okay, first of all, what we do know, is that stories like that are used in the media to get the right or the left to rile up and pit fights against each other and get fired up. What we don't know is the relationship that this mom had with this daughter the previous five years of her life and did she communicate stuff like this? Did they ever talk about this? Did the kid try and, were they showing signs and she never did? So, again, when I hear stuff like this that inside starts to get me all boiled up, what it comes down to for me is like, God damn, there is more pressure today on a parent. Got to be involved. You got to be involved. You can't just, where 20, 30, 40 years ago, you could lean on the schools to hopefully lay a moral fabric for your child. Because it was, because it was- All dressed is gone. It's more than that. I don't care about that. Honestly, I understand that part. You're not allowed to give my kid shit without telling me. That's it. I don't expect you to raise them with morality or expect to raise them like I am. You teach them stuff, fine, I get that. Hope you do a good job or whatever. I'll move my kid to school if you don't, fine. But if my kid does something, or you give them a medication or a drug or something, and then you hide it from me, that's where I got a problem. That's the difference. The difference is you're gonna do something to my kid without me knowing, and then you pair up with my kid like I'm the enemy. Oh, hell no. Yeah, I know. I just don't- I don't see that happening to one of us. I don't think that- What happens to other people? It's happened to other people. I know, but that's my point though, Sal, that I'm bringing up is that you only get the headline story and the written by somebody that has a bias of whatever side they're trying to rile up. And so what missing pieces of that story do you or I do not have, right? Which, again, could be maybe that kid for three years was trying to communicate to their parents and their parents were like, I'm not listening. I'm not having it. No, and they don't even talk about it. Like, for all you know. And that just pushes that child in that direction even further. We don't know that. And I'm not saying that necessarily happened in this situation, but I'm just saying that I recognize that we live in this time now where- Yeah, you're just trying to accept it. Everything is about clicks. Everything is about like getting one side riled up against the other side. Everybody's an influence now. Yeah, my initial reaction to hearing stories that is a knee jerk reaction. Like, fuck that. I can't believe that. It makes me so angry. But then at the end of the day, it's like these types of things are going to keep happening. And it's if not at an accelerated rate. And so what can I do? Clean my own room, right? That's my thought. Always. It's like I got it. And I got a BSB on the defense from the very jump. Like the fact that, you know, and they're doing stuff at very young ages, these kids. I know kids in kindergarten, first grade, there's some places where there's kids teachers will keep dresses in the classroom and ask if they, oh, do you want to dress like a girl today or a boy? Asking stuff like that of a young child. It's like, if I found that other kids, not going to that school no more. Just I'll figure out a way to home school. All the shit that we have on my play, I'll figure it out. It would be like this. Like let's say you have a hyperactive kid in class. Okay? You know, any one of us could have one of these. All of us are a bit hyperactive, your kids, whatever. And then you find out. They're giving them ADD bullshit. They've been giving them Ritalin. Yeah. Or Adder all the whole time. And not telling you. But he's getting better grades. He doesn't want to sit still in class. Yeah, but I'll break that teacher's face and I'll handle my repercussions for that. Oh, that's what I wanted to hear. That's, I mean, that's, that's like. I'm sorry. That's really the line. You cross the line. That is the line, dude. That's someone who is, who is communicating to his son, is talking to, knows all those things like that. Right. And if your, your first thing is. That's it. Clearly unacceptable. And there has to be those lines that are firm. And that's just it. Like we, we've lost that, that stance that people aren't taking the stance. This is the firm line. Like you got to hold the line. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You come for the kids, man. That's in, in, in, in. So part of me is like, you know, there's a, there's a lot of really quiet. Hey, man, just, I just want to do my job. I just want to raise my kids. Moms and dads out there. There's a lot of that. Yeah. And they're just sitting there and they're quiet, but there's a lot of this pushing that's starting to happen. And, you know, the. You got to put, you know what? The backlash is going to be. You got to hit them with the pocketbook. That's how it always hurts them. Protesting and going and like getting mad, yelling, that stuff don't work. You, you know what? You get 50, 100, 200 parents to unenroll their kids from that school. That's how those schools make out. It's based off of enrollment. I can't come into school no more. So let's see how long this school stays afloat. So you got to hit them like that. You can't, to me, like stand outside and leave the picket and fucking, or you guys writing letters or getting all angry. Like that ain't going to do nothing. It's like, if there's enough parents that are outraged by that, like what I do in that situation is I would inform every parent. They would know what happened to me. Like this is what happened to me. You all need to know this is what's going on with this teacher. I'm pulling my kid out of school. Who else? And then you, you rally them, right? Rally them to get in. There is. Yeah, we're going such a negative route. I'm like, dude, there's this guy that like was in the valley that everybody was like, no, we're not okay. This guy is a child molester. And we're like, dude, and they didn't want to put his information out. They didn't want it to be known. Somebody found public and he came back and like he's, he's a felon. Like he's always, and so we took pictures of it, blasted it all over the place, all over town. Put it up, dude. You can't fucking hide, bro. We know who you are. That's just it. So I got a, I got a shout out. Our good buddy, Jordan shallow. So he makes me think about him. I was actually just teasing him the other day because that guy is just a walking thesaurus. And he did a great post on something. I remember what it was. And I asked him if I could have some french fries with that word salad. He talked shit back to me saying, I'll give you a knuckle salad, which is what I'll give you. Super smart guy. Incredibly smart. That's some of the best information he does. And in his, like you want high level training certification. His training cert is next level. So definitely somebody you should follow if you're not following on Instagram already. His handle is the underscore muscle underscore doc. I believe is what it is. So the muscle doc. And I think there's underscores between each word. I think I'll double check real quick for you, Doug, just to make sure. Yeah, the underscore muscle underscore doc. Hey, what's happening? You've probably heard about cold water therapy. It does things like reduce inflammation, improve vitality, gives the energy, makes you feel good. Where there's this company called Cold Plunge that makes them specifically for your home with the filter and everything. Fill it with water. It automatically chills the water to the right temperature and keeps it clean. It's got a nice cover on it as well. So when you're ready to use it, pull off the cover, get in, try and stay in there for a couple minutes, hop back out. It's a pretty awesome looking system. And again, it's designed for your home. Go check them out. Go to thecoldplunge.com. The company, by the way, is called Plunge. And use the code MINEPUMP and get $150 off your purchase. All right, here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Matt from Florida. Matt, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey, guys, it's good to be back on. I was on about eight months ago and you guys gave me power lifts and I ended up doing pretty well with that. So I appreciate you having me back on because now I've ran into some problems. I thought I ran into some problems. I was running Math 15 from January to now just because I'm a college student and just don't have time to go to the gym every single, or not every single day, I guess, but like for an hour, four days a week. So I was running that and then I thought I pulled my back. But that was just like, I ended up just getting sick. So it was just like the inflammatory process. But when I sent in the question, I still was thinking about this. I plan on running map symmetry next just because I hear about benefits and I feel like it would do me very well because I've never done something like that. But I've also been training Nordic curls for the past few weeks. And I progressed pretty well with them. I can't get all the way down. I just, I do the eccentric only because concentric is pretty impossible. So I don't want to lose that skill while I do symmetry. So I was wondering what you guys thought about that. Oh, okay. Including it into the program. Yeah. Well, here's a deal. I mean, you could, I guess, add it, but I think you'd be better off following symmetry as it's laid out. Now, what might happen is you might have to reacclimate to the skill of the Nordic curl because it's a somewhat of a high skill exercise. Although I bet you'd probably come back stronger. So for people who don't know what a Nordic curl is, it's like a leg curl, except your upper body is what's you're curling up. Not your lower body, right? Not your heels, your legs. And it's a tough exercise. There's a lot of resistance. Your upper body's quite heavy in comparison to, you know, the lower part of your body when you do that exercise. So, but here's a deal. It's bilateral. Both legs are doing the work. And I would venture to say with some certainty that one leg is probably stronger than the other. So a program, especially if you've never done a full program like map symmetry. Like, have you ever done, you know, two or three months of pure unilateral style training? No, I included like Bulgarians. That was, that's pretty much, but I've been doing a lot of dumbbell stuff only because I, Jim and my apartment complex only has dumbbells and machines. So I've just been using dumbbells for the past few months anyways, but now I haven't solely included unilateral, I guess, like symmetry. Yeah. So two dumbbells at the same time is more unilateral than a barbell, but there's ways to get even more unilateral training with dumbbells and exercises. Nonetheless, your lower body exercises were probably almost all bilateral, even though you're using dumbbells. So I say follow, especially if I've already been working out for a little while, sounds like you followed some programs. I would say follow symmetry to the T. And then at the end, the last phase is a five by five, so you can kind of test your strength. I think you'll be quite surprised. Then when you go back to trying the Nordic curls, start slow and see what happens, but oftentimes people find that they're, within a week or two of getting used to the exercise, they surpassed where they were before. Yeah. I mean, you said you did power lift and for anybody that's done power lift, I honestly think it should be a requirement to go after that to symmetry, just out of like addressing a lot of that high demand and intensity that you're pursuing and really like generating more force. Now we have to really like go back and assess like where the leakage is of power and energy leaks. So I think it's just, it's advantageous because you're going to find that there are just inevitable instabilities that occur like imbalances that would need to be addressed. So I highly recommend that you go through that program because then it does address it in the bilateral again in phase four. So it's like you'll see what kind of work that led up to. Matt, is there a particular reason why you don't or why you want to keep the Nordic curls in the program and keep doing it other than just being good at them or do you have a specific reason why? I mean, I've been following Ben Patrick for a little bit and I hear that Nordic curls are pretty good to protect the knee. And I literally just started doing them and I just, I bought like one of those straps that you can use around a bench. Like I think I bought it like a month ago. So like I really want to start the new program. I just don't want to lose. I don't want to lose the skill and I want to keep doing them because I've seen been seeing a lot of progress and I will say that even if I do symmetry, it's not like I'm training the Nordic curls. It's more like I'm practicing them. Like I'm not really going to failure. I'm just doing a few reps for a few sets. A few workouts a week, like not so failure or anything until I feel like I can't do like a quality rep. Yeah, but Matt, you said you can't do a concentric rep, right? You're just doing a negative. Yeah, just the negative. Yeah, that's not a low intensity practice way of practicing an exercise. Like if you want to put an exercise in the category of, you know, this is just something I'm going to add just to practice and it's not going to impact my recovery too much. It would be something you could perform easily, both concentrically and essentially. You'd be dragging a sled like Ben Patrick does. Like he, you know, drags a sled constantly to kind of build up the backs. But also, look, look, here's the deal. When it comes to right to left imbalances, let me ask you a question. Okay, let's say you're doing a bench press and you have one side slightly stronger than the other, which you probably do most of us do. Do you notice that when you go light or do you notice it when you go real heavy? Probably heavy, yeah. Yeah, that's when the bar starts to twist and weird stuff starts to happen. Okay, Nordic curl is a heavy, hard exercise. Even if you're just doing an eccentric, if it's your right leg that's stronger, that difference is going to remain if not become a little bit worse. So I say, because here's the deal. You know, you've already been training and working out on lots of different types of programs. You did power lift. Go symmetry all the way through, follow to a T, don't add anything. Go back later and then start slow with your Nordic curl and I bet you'll be surprised. I bet you'll go back and be like, oh wow, I feel better than I did before. It might take a week or two just to kind of get the hang of it because it is an exercise that requires a little bit of skill. But I bet within a couple of weeks, you'll be like, I didn't, not only did I not lose much, I'm actually better off than I was before. Yeah, and I know just like a follow-up about the actual program, I'll definitely do that. I know it has like the five by five. But like I said, if I'm in school around the time of the five by five, I know the program's like three or four months or whatever. So I'm not sure where I'll be at that point. But if the department complex doesn't have barbells, could I still do a five by five? Just, I know that dumbbell deadlifts aren't really suitable for a five by five. But can I do like other movements, like Bulgarians, five by five or dumbbell bench, a five by five. You could also transition to, I mean, why don't we do this? Why don't we, do you have Maps and a Bulk already or no? No. Because why don't we give him Maps and a Bulk and he could do the whole dumbbell version of that. So when it gets to the five by five section, if you don't- We just go phase one Maps and a Bulk. Then go phase one Maps and a Bulk because that's- And there's an at home version there. So you can do the- Wait, hold on a second. Matt, did we give you a program last time? Powerless. Yeah, you reach your limit. Can't have another one. I'm just kidding, Matt. I'm just kidding. We'll give you a Maps and a Bulk if you don't have it. I saw you guys give someone like three programs in the forum. Oh, that's fucking Sal. Sal does that sometimes. He gets in one of these happy moods. He just starts giving our business away. Yeah. He's the Oprah. I don't love everybody the same. I'm sorry. No, but if you don't have anabolic, do you have symmetry? I do. Yeah, I bought that. All right, good. So we'll send you Maps and a Bulk if you don't have it. I think that's great advice. Adam hit the nail on the head. If at the end you don't have access to barbells, do Maps and a Bulk, the dumbbell version, and it's already written out for you. Yeah. All right, cool. Thank you, guys. You got it, brother. Thanks, man. Thanks for calling in. I feel a lot, sir. Yeah, I think that's the thing that people need to understand is what you said, Justin. Beautiful. Because if you're going to, if you have a right to left discrepancy, training like a power lifter is going to make that. It's going to, it's going to strengthen the hell out of that. Magnify it. Yeah, because it's all bilateral barbell work and you're training with high load. High load is when this stuff happens. Like think about this, if someone's listening right now, think about when you were spotting your friend doing a bench press and form looks good, form looks good, form looks good, and then they start to get to those reps. Maps and Bulk sets in. Yeah, and then all of a sudden the bar starts to twist and their chest come, you know, turns and weird stuff starts to happen. So when you're doing a high load exercise that you can't even do the positive portion of the rep, you're just doing the eccentric that's probably counter to what we're trying to accomplish with map symmetry, which is to develop, you know, symmetrical strength, control and stability on both sides, which then translates profoundly to bilateral exercises. So. Which is I think such a good point that you made, like, because we talk a lot about practicing exercises on the podcast and there are specific exercises, I think that lend themselves well to that type of a deal than ones that don't. And doing something that is so difficult that you can't even do the positive portion of the rep would not be in that category of ideal. If he said something like, hey man, when I do seated row, it just makes my posture feel really good all time. And I see it's not programmed in this program. Can I practice that? Yeah, absolutely. Cut the load down to, you know, 30, 40% and do it every single day if you want. If it helps out your posture and you're not getting sore from it. But that's an exercise you could easily control. You could lighten the load and it is just a practice and technique thing or something like that. Like, yeah, those Nordic rolls, you do five reps of those things. They're gnarly. Yeah, you're blasted. Yeah. Our next caller is Maxi from Australia. Maxi, what's happening? How can we help you? Yo, how's it going, guys? I'm super stoked to be on the podcast. So I've been listening for three, four months now. So kind of a new listener but making my way back through. So I just wanted to say thank you so much for providing such like a powerful resource, man. It's really helped me on my recovery journey. So thank you. Excellent, sweet. Thank you. Yeah, so a little, I won't take up too much of your time but a little backstory on me. Sorry, man. I just woke up. So yeah, about a year ago, I fell down like a slippery slope of developing the eating disorder, pretty tough time. And got pretty lean, got down to about 45 kilograms, lost all my muscle mass. I didn't really have any end-never strength trained before that. And yeah, was hospitalized with a collapsed lung and really, really spiraled out. It was pretty tough time. And following a natural disaster, which I got caught up in as well, I started to abuse alcohol pretty bad. And yeah, quickly decided to change gears and make some better decisions for my life. So I picked up weight training after some doctor's advice and I've been training for about a year now. And I've put on 20 kilos and restored my weight. And coupling strength training and nutrition has been just like the perfect marriage and really helped me recover and regain my weight. And yeah, it's seriously saved my life. So I'm really glad to be going down that path. So here's a bit of a curveball. So about six months ago, I got hit with chronic fatigue or a lot of doctors diagnosed me with chronic fatigue syndrome or lung COVID. And simultaneously I plateaued in the gym. And yeah, I've been lean bulking for about six months, but I'm not making any progress and then I was starting to actually progress. So I took a D-load week recently. But yeah, basically my question for you guys is having these kind of stress on your body, this chronic fatigue and possible lung COVID, is that a potential to really slow down your progress in the gym? Obviously, that sounds like a silly question, but yeah, I just love your guys opinion and your advice following that. So it's not a silly question. I think it really can depend. It could depend on how stressed you already over are or already are with the lack of potential sleep and energy and then what your training protocol slash diet looks like. If you're also under eating and over training and also have this chronic fatigue, then absolutely it's a quick recipe to not only plateau, but regress. So I think the idea is to build a routine and diet that is less focused on building tons of muscle or making these massive gains, but out taking care of your body and trying to get to a place where you feel more energy, you sleep better and things like that. So what does your training look like right now? Are you following one of our programs? Are you doing your own thing? Tell me a little bit about your training. Yeah, I'm not currently following one of your programs. Obviously hearing a lot about them listening to the show and starting to think about it. But about a year ago, I kind of like pieced together my own push pull legs program. It's a 10 day split. So it's push pull legs, push pull, rest, legs, rest, and then repeat and intensity is quite high like two reps and failure, but not a lot of sets. And I'm starting to like really reduce my volume like on my legs day I only squat now. And my diet's pretty dialed in to where I'm consistently gaining a little bit of weight week to week, eating 2700 to 2800 calories. So like I am noticing like body composition changes, but like it doesn't really seem to line up with my strength in the gym as it's like the clients. I got more questions for you, Maxie. First off, congratulations on where you've come from. That's very challenging. That's a win in itself, right? That's a huge win and I appreciate the bravery, right? You're on a show, it's going to be publicized and you're talking about this. This is great because there's a lot of people out there that you might help by telling this to. So I'm going to ask you some questions. You don't have to answer them if you don't want to, if you don't feel comfortable, but did you end up figuring out what it was or the reason why you developed the eating disorder and the alcohol issues? Did you end up figuring that out? Yeah, sure. I knew you were going to ask this question, actually. Yeah, I have, you know, I'm speaking with therapists and I really got down to this like control. Basically it was just like finding control in my life. It was like finding out that deep cause didn't really seem to change much, but it certainly made it much more clearer and more simple as to why I didn't need to do that to myself and why I could get better and avoid these destructive behaviors. So yeah, I'm feeling like I have a much better relationship with food now and it's a long journey and it will always still be sitting there in the back of your mind, but yeah, the relationship is improved. So that's common. It's common that for people who don't understand control, they're like, what do you mean by control? Oftentimes when people feel out of control, whether in their life now or they grew up in an environment where it was unstable or there was a lack of control, then they find something that they can control, which is food and it gives them that sense of control. Right? Or at least that's how the theory was your life at the time. Was it that your life at the time fell out of control or was this something that started in childhood? And believe, trust me, this is going somewhere, so. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, no, it was certainly environmental, you know. This really kind of came under a lot of environmental stress and that was due to COVID, of course, and being relocated through cities and especially with alcohol, it was certainly environmental. I think anybody in the right circumstances and under the right amount of stress can be vulnerable to these things. And, you know, COVID was quite, the lockdowns here in Australia were quite intense. I don't know if you guys heard it overseas, but... Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. And by that, I did get caught up in a major flood disaster where my whole community lost everything. So it was certainly environmental stress was part of it. Okay. Yeah. And your environment's different now. Let me ask you a question about what's happening right now because what you did is you went through something really challenging, correct me if I'm wrong, really challenging environment and that, and you said quite accurately, in the right conditions, I mean, anybody will try to find a coping mechanism and it can be alcohol, drugs, it could be eating disorder, it could be lots of different things. So you're in this really challenging situation, you pulled yourself out of it and part of the tools that you used to pull yourself out was exercise and eating healthy or properly to kind of change your body. Now you're in a position, so then you went on this period of like gaining muscle, gaining strength and feeling better, this is amazing, this is working, this is amazing. Now you're plateauing, you feel fatigued, by the way, chronic fatigue syndrome tends to be an umbrella term that means we don't know why you're tired. So we're just going to label it right and long COVID seems to be one of those things as well to the best of my knowledge, like we don't know what's going on. Do you feel out of control right now? No, I don't feel out of control. Okay, good. I'm glad you said that because what I don't want is for you to go back or start to develop a relationship with exercise and diet that is also unhealthy. So not doing it can be unhealthy, it can be so not doing it can be unhealthy, but doing it to the point where if you're not progressing and you're not seeing these things that maybe pulled you out of something before or gave you these profound changes before, that could push you to doing things that are also destructive. So here's what I'm going to ask you to do before we talk about your workout and what you need to do. I want you to realize the total values of exercise and nutrition and part of that value, which is the ones that we tend to attach most of our value to is strength, fat loss, muscle gain, aesthetic. But now you're in a position where that's not happening for some reason and you're trying to figure out why with your health, but now you need to use exercise and diet in a way that just makes you feel better. And you need to stop measuring your success in terms of strength and aesthetics because there's something underlying that you still haven't figured out. So I would go to the gym and I would eat and the things that I would use to dictate whether or not I'm moving in the right direction is does this make me feel better objectively, physically? Am I sleeping better? Does this give me more energy? Is my digestion better? Is my mood more positive? And if it is, you're on the right track. If it isn't, you're on the right track. I would ignore the weight on the bar completely. I would ignore all the physical strength and fat loss on set for now until we figure out what the root issue is as to why you may be feeling the way you're feeling. Then lastly, I'll say this and I don't know what the, I don't know how available this is to you or your app, but I know here in the States, we have now quite a bit of functional medicine practitioners which are excellent and will go way further than your typical MD. So an MD will say chronic fatigue syndrome and they did your normal blood test. Well, everything looks like normal, but we can't really figure out what's going on. A functional medicine practitioner is going to do test after test after test after test and they're going to go deeper and deeper and deeper and try and figure out what's going on. So I highly suggest you view exercise and nutrition as a way to right now just make yourself feel better. That's what your workouts going to look like. That's what your diet is going to look like. If it makes me feel better, do it. If it doesn't, then let's do it in a way that makes me feel better. And then I would contact and work with a functional medicine practitioner and I would tell them exactly what your symptoms are, exactly what the diagnosis is. And if anybody's going to get to the root cause of why you're feeling this way, it will be a good functional medicine practitioner. Do you know of any in your area around there? Because if not, we can recommend you to some of the ones that we work with and I do believe they do things virtually as well. Yeah, I'd happily look into what you recommend, but yeah, I do have a few contacts around. I've been kind of tiptoeing in. Yeah, there's obviously I've been on this like petite journey for the past six months. So I've exhausted a lot of my general practitioners surrounding me and a lot of, yeah, just general medicine. So I have definitely started taking a lane of, I think I need to, and especially listening to you guys, like you seem to promote functional medicine and I think that's definitely the next kind of, the next call. I would take advantage of our free forum that we have access already. So he has access to Dr. Cabral in there so he can start in that direction and they offer tons of- It's MP Holistic Health, right? Is that on Facebook? Correct, yeah. MP, it's a free forum. So you can go there and ask questions. And then I'd like to give you Maps Anabolic and Maps 15 and let me tell you how I would decide what to use. I want to give you both programs and to Sal's point of what you're supposed to be gauging. I'm not worried about strength. I'm not worried about six-pack abs. I'm worried about feeling good and the workout complimenting what's going on. So let's say it hasn't been the greatest night of sleep or I feel a little stressed, would work, whatever stuff's going on. I would ask you to pick something from Maps 15, a workout from that. Let's say you start to string a couple good weeks of great rest, good eating, your energy levels are up, then I would pull from Maps Anabolic. So it's not a normal thing that I would recommend to someone for following our programs, but you could do that. And I would tell you to use your best judgment on how you feel on how you should train. I think Anabolic and 15 would be two good programs to have at your disposal. And just for, you might know this already, but for anybody listening, functional medicine practitioners are not woo-woo, they use real medical testing. The difference is their goal, entire goal, is not to mask symptoms with medications but rather figure out why the hell you have symptoms in the first place. And there's a few categories of things that Western medicine does a terrible job working with. One of them is chronic fatigue syndrome. Look it up. Anybody who's experienced with this knows that this is a term that they use when they can't figure out why the hell you feel so tired. So they'll say, you got chronic fatigue syndrome and that's it. We don't know what the hell's going on and maybe they'll try an antidepressant, maybe they'll try throwing other things at you, but there's a reason why you're suddenly have this crushing fatigue. There's a reason. Does that mean we'll be able to figure it out? I don't know, but the best people for that are people who that's what they do and that's functional medicine practitioners. So 100% go in that direction. Great, great. That's great advice. Thank you. You got it. You got it. And we'll send those programs to you so you have those two to pull from, okay? Yeah, that'd be amazing. I really appreciate you guys taking the time and thank you so much again. Like you guys, it sounds crazy, but it feels like you're my mates now because you're in the car every day and you're at home while I'm cooking dinner and it's a real great time. I appreciate that. We are, Max. You keep it. Follow up with us too. Let us know how everything's going. Yeah. Yeah, awesome, awesome. All right, bro. Thanks, guys. Thank you. I had a client like this where she went to the doctor, typical blood tests and hormones and we looked at this and that. She was like, oh, I just got chronic fatigue syndrome. What? Just the label and then that was the end of the question. Irritable bowel syndrome used to be. So I have gut issues. They used to tell me, oh, you just have IBS. What the fuck is that? The umbrella term. Oh, your gut just, you know, whatever. It could be old. What the hell is it? Oh, it's IBS. We just call it IBS. Well, you guess what we know now? Now we know that they're SIBO, CFO, leaky gut syndrome. By the way, they laughed at all those stuff and made fun of this stuff. Parasites, yeah. Who were the ones that were first looking at those things and identified those things? Functional medicine. Functional medicine practitioners. So if you're walking around with a label. Environmental causes, all kinds of things. If you suddenly feel like something is wrong and they can't figure it out and they label it, labeling it doesn't mean anything. It just means that you got a label now. Go to the root, try and figure out the root and you have to be your best advocate. Ironic too that they labeled the chronic fatigue syndrome and or long COVID, which has also been debunked. Well, just there's like, what is it? And you know, I just read some crazy data on, they just released some data showing that I swear to God and this is, you know, this is controversial right now that wearing especially N95 masks all the time actually produced in a significant amount of people symptoms that could be labeled long COVID. So who knows? That's the state. That's one controversial study that's coming out. So I'm not saying it's, you know, that's the deal, but who knows? Who knows? Our next caller is Chris from New York. Chris, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey guys, how are you? Good, how are you? First off, yeah, cool. First off, yeah, thanks again for having me on. And you know, I just started listening to you guys about two months or so ago. And yeah, you guys are legit. I'm totally hooked. It's awesome stuff. I listen to you guys daily. Like, you know, just some background real quick on me is, you know, I'm 53 married. I have four kids. I played athletics in college, both football and lacrosse. Never really lifted until after college. It was all like, you know, basic global stuff. And then I crossfitted for about seven years, hurt my shoulder. Now I've been lifting for the last call of three years. Have never really followed a program at all. And I just finished week two of advanced calendar maps out of Pollock. Yeah, and it's pretty awesome. I'm actually already seeing, you know, small strength gains. But it's pretty sweet. But onto my question, I know there's a range of rest time. It says up to three minutes. And I was curious how different rest times would affect end results. For example, if I just like, if I'm doing like a back squat and I hit one rep, then I rest three minutes at a heavier weight. How would that impact results if, you know, I was doing, say, three reps with a lower weight at a less of a rest time? If that makes sense. Yeah, makes total sense. Really good question. So all right. So here's a deal with the rest periods. I would say anywhere between on the low, low end, 30 seconds to on the high end, I don't know, five minutes, maybe even longer, you're going to see muscle and strength gains within those. The lower end, the lower end, more stamina and strength stamina on the higher end, more just kind of pure strength. Now, now here's where it gets, here's where it gets confusing. If you look at studies, and this is the, this is one of the problems with studies is they'll compare things head to head in like a 16 week period. And they'll say, or less, or less, right? And they'll say, okay, we took two groups of college aged males, usually what it is. And this group rested for three minutes. And this group rested for 60 seconds. And they'll say, who built more muscle and strength? And at the end of the study, it shows that the three minute group built more muscle and strength. Okay, now that study is correct. But the problem is that just like anything, your body stops kind of responding really well when it starts to get, you know, for lack of a better term used to a style of training. So you take somebody, like I'll give you an example. Stan Efferding has been on the show a couple of times. He was a power lifter, then he became a bodybuilder. And he had a tough time winning his pro card. And one thing he did is he hired a flex wheeler, who was a popular bodybuilder in the 90s. And what flex wheeler did is he cut his rest times way down and had him do high rep sets. And Stan just built a lot of muscle. Now it's because his Stan was so used to train like a power lifter that it was this new novel stimulus in it. And it just totally worked. So the, I guess the short story is they all have value. You want to be able to cycle through all of them. They're going to feel different when you're doing them. But they all have a lot of value. So that's why when you see a program like Maps and Abolic or any of our other programs, we tend to have you go through different rep ranges for phases and oftentimes rep, you know, rest periods. So if there's a rest period that you've been doing consistently for a long time now, I would say change it to either resting longer or shorter, depending where you're at. And of course you'll have to adjust the weight and it's going to feel very different. Sure. But they're all going to work for you. But also realize to the principle of specificity applies. So as we're going through these like rest periods to try and stay consistent within a few weeks, you know, three to four weeks. So that way your body can fully, you know, acquire this, this skill and get good at it. And so that way that we phase through these and try to make sure that we're on top of this so we don't hit those inevitable plateaus with that. But that's why we do that. We don't just, you know, add in like these long rest period and short rest periods and kind of confuse the body that way. It's a lot more effective to kind of stay within that framework for a good three to four weeks. A good generic rule of thumb is where you suck at the most is where the gains lie. So if you're, so let's say you be being a guy who did CrossFit for seven years, you probably have a tendency to keep the workout moving, not very long rest periods. So if I got a guy like that. So if I got a guy like that, I love taking him and going like, Hey, we're going to rest for three plus minutes, bro. And then we're going to stack more weight on this. And that is going to be challenging for that avatar because for seven years, he's trained in this way of short rest periods. So he tends to do that very well. So whatever you suck at tends to be where the best gains lie. So that's kind of a good rule of thumb that if you know, if you know that you could cut the rest period shorter and you like that, it's easy. Well, you're probably going to get more out of the longer rest periods and loading heavier weight. Cool. Yeah. That's what I've been trying to do, but it's, it's totally, it's definitely like a transition or a change. I'm like pacing around the gym like with my stopwatch. But, but you see the strength. I mean, it's wild. I mean, it's like every session, every foundational workout, I only go up a little bit, but it's, I feel like you can get more reps, but I'm just, I need to stay within the program. So it's not letting my ego get involved. And tell you what, that's the right attitude. And you're going to reap the benefits for having, but for doing that, just trust the process. It's not mental discipline. You got to apply, yeah. And if you, this is your first real maps program following, if you start to follow a second or third one, you're going to start to see how we integrate all those different tempos and rest periods. And so, you know, they really were designed with that idea that you don't just follow one indefinitely. You follow one, run it maybe once or twice, then you go on to another program. And as you, as you see, as you go through each program, we introduce all these different philosophies. So you're constantly getting the gains and results. So if you trust the process, I promise we won't let you down. Chris, the next, the next one would be maps performance. That's where I will go next after maps and a baller. Okay. Maps performance. And okay. Yeah. Cause I'm totally going to cycle through them. So I'm psyched. Yeah. I'm psyched to have a fan out about you guys for sure. And again, thanks, thanks a lot for taking the time guys. You got it. We're going to, we're going to send you over maps performance. And then the next one after that would be aesthetic. So we'll, we'll send you over math performance for free. And then after you're done with performance, I'd move on to aesthetic. Yep. Awesome. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it guys. All right, Chris. All right. Good question. Yeah. You know, so I'm going to just say right now exactly what the challenge is going to be for everybody listening who does what we just said. Here's what's going to happen. You're going to change to a new rest period. And then you're going to be like, oh my God, this is the thing this works. And then you're going to stay in that stupid rest period for too long. That's it. 100%. In plateau again. And I'm, I did this. It's how we all got here. Oh my God. It's how we all got here. Time and time again. We all have our preferences, you know, it coming in. That's just how it works. Especially when you feel those gains from a new rest period or a new, you know, range. And oh my God, this is it. This is what I got to do. And then you end up staying it for too long. Justin said it earlier. Three to four weeks, six weeks tops. Then switch. Six weeks max. Don't wait until you plateau. Switch before you plateau. That's the way to do it. Look, if you like mine pump, head over to mine pump free.com and check out all of our guides. We have fitness guides for almost everybody for almost every fitness goal. You can also find us all on social media. So Justin is on Instagram at mine pump Justin. I'm on Instagram at mine pump DeStefano and Adam is on Instagram at mine pump Adam. Today we're going to teach you everything you need to know to build a strong, well developed chest. When I think of weak points and areas that I struggled with developing for a really long time, chest was up there with the. Yeah, it was for me. It was for me for sure. I got more caught up in the weight I could lift versus how I was developing my body. I think it's one of the most challenging muscles to develop for most people because the form and technique.