 Thanks, everyone. So there were absolutely lots of great questions. We were thinking maybe we could take one from Pumzile, a great presentation from Gambia. This is for Alpha. For why does stakeholder participation, how do you hope to engage parents for collaboration and information sharing? So, Alpha, if you are with us, if you wouldn't mind sharing that, perhaps C.D. or Jerry. Okay. Thank you. Can you hear me? Yes, I think that is a very important question. Like I said, what we are trying to do in the Gambia is to, during the inception, to bring it to the stakeholders. When we go to the schools, we have school management committees that include the parents. The parents are part of the school management committee. That's where we are disseminating and selling the idea of this new sieve and the bare role. This is where we are really using parents. And again, the school has what we call modus club. So these two communities, through the PTA, Parental Association, the modus club and the school management committee, we really hope to engage the parent. And so far, the data we have collected at individual level, the parents were very, very responsive. We were worried that when we start asking them new data about them, only two private schools, that were the international private schools, wrote back to us and say, why do you ask data about our children? Then we wrote back and then, luckily, even these big private schools that are international, they responded. Thank you. So Alfa, having you here, you're actually the first speaker of this building capacity across sectors. So that's your slide. Yes. This is a very important one. Actually, one of the things that motivates us is the fact that DHS2 has been in education, in health, in the health sector for a very long time. And even though the health sector in the government will consider the education sector as the better in terms of data, we wanted to see what they were doing. And the fact that every child that we are monitoring has gone through the health system. In another word, every community that has a school is likely to have a primary health care center or a clinic nearby in the district. So before they come to the school, they all meet at this area with their modus or their parents. So we thought if DHS is around, it's at the health system and they are measuring and looking at the children from pregnancy up to when they are three or older, before they come to school, the best place would be, how do we write on that infrastructure and infrastructure? So this is one of the things that definitely we thought will address our biggest challenge. Our biggest challenge has been out of school. We don't have any systematic approach addressing out of school in the Gambia. We only wait until development partners come and give us support to do a study on out of school. But we hope with the DHS at health and education, we will be able to link the birth certificate that when children are born at the district level, district clinic level, we will be able to get the number of children's data. And then we will observe them from and put a face on this out of school children. So when they are older, like three-year-old, for early childhood education, or seven-year-old, we can still go and look for them. But this time, it is a targeted approach. We are going to their homes. And when we come to the home, we will be asking, where is CD? Where is Alpha? Not in the other way we are looking at out of school. How many children are not going to school in the community? So the question would be more targeted. And we thought that will help increase the birth certificate. And when birth certificate is increased in the Gambia, the admission register age reporting will be increased. And that is very useful for our NER. And again, it is linked to inclusive agenda. We will be able to see how they are behaving, how ready, ready to learn. That's an SDG indicator. We hope that will help the education data, the health data administration, and their physical health well-being would be very useful to help us address readiness to learn indicator that we are supposed to report. So again, in terms of remote learning opportunities, because we are talking about how do we monitor remote learning? If we are having one data system at health and education, we will be able to use this opportunity to make sure that remote learning and teaching is also assured. Unless you have a wider capacity of people dealing with that. Then the capacity challenge would be mitigated. Because like we said that it will not be only one sector. When our minister go to finance looking for data support, he has now another minister at the cabinet helping to achieve the same challenge. So we are going to have a bigger voice at the macro level asking for the same challenge. So the issue of data at the national level and ensuring that there is funding, there is scalability, there is support at the national level would really be assured if we are able to have one data system from the health education and in the Gambia, we have got other department axing. The minister of transport have come and they are axing. The national council for city education are right now axing us and we joined the minister of finance because of the national development plan. They want to access to join our system because luckily for education in the Gambia, we have been leading the data system and because we have gone to the HHS, they thought they can jump in and work with us. But we are saying give us some time while you are working with our partners and trying to make sure we have a very strong proof of concept before we can get everybody on board. But there is a huge opportunity that we can have, we can begin to have interoperability of the system and an e-government system. Thank you. Thank you so much, Alpha. Then I can call Prosper Bembesi from Hispuganda to talk a little bit about the building and the capacity but also the linkages between the sectors that Hispuganda has worked a lot with. Over to you, Prosper. Thank you very much, Christine, and thank you attendees for sponsoring this conference. Good to have a great number. Just to share a little bit about how the education can benefit from the capacity that has been due for over 25 years in the DHIS too. This is basically what we have relied on for Uganda, supporting Uganda, supporting the ESRA team. So in terms of the capacity, we look at utilizing the existing capacity that has been built in the health sector to support the implementation and the care. And here we already see some good examples, of course, for the Hispuganda that has been supporting DHIS to poor health in the past 10 years in Uganda. And you've also seen from the Sri Lanka team how easily the Hisp team was able to come in and support the education sector. So we look at that as a core, and that's what has helped many of the countries to quickly get on to the DHIS too. So the ministries, the Hisp networks has really played a great role in terms of the capacity building. Then when it comes to the district and the lower levels, again, we did look at utilizing the district by statisticians and the HMIS focal persons as the commissioner mentioned in the presentation to continuously support and build the capacity of the education team at the lower levels. And this for Uganda, as you can see in the training, in the picture there, we were able to bring the health teams at the district and the education teams at the district, train them together, support them, and when they went back to the districts because of the proximity and the offices, they were able to support and continuously support the districts in the data collection analysis and also visualization. In terms of the cross sector data use and the sharing, we see this as also a greatest pillar in terms of building a stronger team in education. When we start with the leadership, a question that was also asked on the platform, how the leadership can be engaged, we've had good champions in the health, especially for Uganda. We've had from the top the ministers to the lowest district health person really using the NCHS2 and supporting other teams. One of the meetings we had with the minister of education, P.S., he was able to mention that he's seen his counterpart in the minister of health just by a click of a button being able to use the NCHS2 and get the statistics in her office. And that was a great motivation to us and him to be able to support this NCHS2. So the leadership, both at the national level between the different sectors or ministries, it plays a great role in terms of strengthening the implementations. When it comes to also the partners, we've had good champions, partners in health. And good enough, these partners also work in education. Examples would be UNICEF, which as you've seen in the SWAT team supported so greatly in the implementation of the NCHS2 here in Uganda. The UNICEF has been a very key partner as far as health is concerned. So that's really one of those kind of partnerships that have been used in NCHS2 really plays a big role in trying to support education sector to improve this system. Uganda as we talk now, we've had a change of leadership. We are now having the minister of state for health. Now moving, we feel like the skills and the use of digital that you're seeing in education in health will be moving with her to the education. So these are some of the few points we wanted to share with you in terms of across. Are we losing you Prosper? Support and partnership. Super Prosper, thank you. And for those of you who want to hear more about the innovations that his Buganda have done in order to support the cross sector data use, you can listen into Prosper on the plenary session at one o'clock tomorrow on the data use session. So we are sort of on time. And the last point of the agenda is actually our panel. So Knut, I will call upon you to present your panel. And we will hear more about how we can together collaborate, scale MS2 to the whole country, but to other countries as well on how to finance it. Over to Knut starting. Thank you very much, Christine. And I'm very honored and pleased to be able to present a very prestigious panel with very experienced people who will discuss this important topic of how do we actually scale the implementations, make sure they're sustainable and financed, and how can we all collaborate around that. So just since we don't have too much time, I will very quickly introduce the panel. We are lucky to have Mr. Shem Bodo, who is a Senior Programs Officer at the Association for the Development of Education in Africa, ADEA. We also have Margaret Irving, who is an economist with a global partnership for education, GPE. We have Louise Crouch, Chief Technical Officer and Vice President at the International Development Group with RTI International. And we have Pierre Chaplet, who is a program specialist focusing on education policies, planning and management at UNESCO in Paris. So thank you very much to the panelists for joining us today. And without further ado, I'd like to hand over to Mr. Shem Bodo to provide his perspective. Thank you very much and good morning, good afternoon, good evening, colleagues. With regards to the topic in the panel, as in ADEA, we have been collaborating with African countries under the African Union and its regional economic communities guided by the Education Observatory, which is IPED, as well as the actors in the education space. And this we have been doing since the enactment of the DACA EFA framework for action in order to strengthen MS in African countries for informed planning and decision making. And a key need that we have seen throughout our engagement with the countries, especially from addressing national and regional education needs through quality data to monitoring the plan of action for the second decade of education for Africa 2006 to 2015. And now the continental education strategy for Africa 2016 to 2025 is really how to move to scale in terms of capacity strengthening, while at the same time grounding these efforts in policy and legal frameworks. So although, as you've heard from the previous session, some of the African countries have greatly improved their MS over the years, these are really few when we look at the entire 55 African countries. And therefore, the need to scale working practices in order to build a critical mass within the continent is really key. And especially now when COVID-19 has brought a new dimension to what needs to be measured and monitored, and even when we look ahead into the future within the framework of the Fourth Industrial Revolution. There's a need for greater resourcing of MS to address some of these challenges. One of the clarion calls from there has been the need to ring fence funds within the ministry's budget for MS because this helps to implement some of the recommendations arising from some of the work, for example, that there has done through peer reviews in some of the countries. And the second critical factor is really having a partnership ecosystem. A call for partnership and for MS has been there for a long time. But now we've increased access that we have seen, although of course we acknowledge that we have a large group of out-of-school children and youth. And with low quality education in terms of learning outcomes, as we see in some of the sub-Saharan African countries, there is a need for quality data in all its seven dimensions to inform us on what is working and what might not be working. This calls for partners to continue supporting MS. In the wake of COVID-19 and remote education gaining some ground towards a blended approach in personal learning, MS is therefore challenged to collect more data and to report more often as the need to partner with actors such as the Internet community of course parents and the wider community to support the work of strengthening MS. It is clear for us in a day that the new normal will impact MS in new and different ways, considering issues such as gender, equity, inclusion, coming to the fore in the last close to one and a half years since the pandemic began. And therefore the DHIS2 and NORA supporting MS using their knowledge and experience in the health sector is a good and welcome practice that can be emulated by other development partners, the private sector and the general employment market to leverage their experience in other domains to call for innovative solutions for the management and utilization of education data. We in ADEA will continue to collaborate with partners to see how MS capacity can really be broadened and integrated. For example, as part of the courses that high education institutions offer, the need for both vertical integration and this has been mentioned by one of the speakers previously, the need for vertical integration within the education spectrum itself from early childhood all the way to higher education and also the need for horizontal integration by including engagement with other ministries and sectors that are providing skills training is really paramount. We believe MS should be at the lower level where the data is created, generated and used, which is within the school level, of course, while at the same time contributing data for system level solutions. This calls for a critical mass of MS expertise oriented on sound MS principles and this magnitude of expertise and the new discipline cannot be made available without the participation of universities, colleges and other high education institutions within Africa and beyond. Indeed, dealing with this new discipline or approach requires support from seasoned universities that deal with the data system. Finally, from our end as ADEA, we believe that African countries need to demonstrate their political commitment to MS through enactment of sound MS policies and appropriate legal frameworks. This particular aspect really has been pending, it's been in the cart for quite some time and also providing an incentive for other partners to increase their level of support to MS. So this is really what has been our experience and which we wish to continue with this. Thank you very much and back to you. Thank you so much, Mr. Bodo. That is, those are excellent topics, the need for the strong government leadership, both politically, legally and in terms of the budget for MS and your starting point of how to scale the capacity is something that has been at the forefront in our work in the health sector. So we really hope to support that also in education. Then I'll put over to Margaret Irving. Please, Margaret, go ahead. That's great. And thank you all to, well, obviously it's a university of us though, but also very much to all the presenters in the previous sessions. It's been absolutely fascinating to hear the country experiences. I guess I wanted to start off at GPE, the Global Partnership for Education. We often kind of put out our feelers and try to think what are the issues that our countries think are most important. And sometimes I'm a little frustrated because data only comes back fifth, sixth, seventh on the list. And I, of course, am always thinking to myself, data is the most important. We need that good. But rarely I have to remind myself that when we talk about data, almost every problem in education is a data problem. So if you're talking about marginalized groups, what are the issues? Very often we don't have information on those marginalized groups. We're not able to access and track them. And we don't have good information or good evidence, systematic evidence, on what's working in those marginalized populations. So I remind myself and I'm thinking through the comments that I'm making here today. I always tell myself every problem is a data problem. I think what I've been particularly encouraged in hearing from the previous session is, traditionally we've often thought of data as a very top-down thing. It's rarely only used for policy and planning. But increasingly I'm hearing from colleagues and you're seeing in our countries that rarely data is being very much built in to management of the system, not just at centralized high level, but also really at district and school level. So the information is both being collected and used by those for whom it's most important. But in terms of where do we need to focus, what are the things we need to be scaling, financing and how do we deal with collaboration? The issues of course of accuracy and timeliness are always an ongoing challenge for us. I think one of the things that makes answering this question in a few minutes such a tricky thing is that across the cohort of countries that we're dealing with, there are many, many different needs and each country is at a different place with respect to its information architecture. So I think we need to be aware of meeting every country where it's at. But broadly some of the issues that we see coming up and we see needing attention and needing scalable solutions, we still, and I think some of the colleagues mentioned, we still see in many instances that data collection is manual, which is time consuming, it's inefficient, there are far more challenges with respect to accuracy and it certainly affects timeliness. We've heard from many colleagues including Shem who just mentioned that there often is not a good guiding framework for MS. There isn't kind of an architectural framework of policies that really outline how MS should function. And that's not necessarily a scaling problem per se, but it's something that impedes scaling oftentimes. We also see a need for new practices, new and somewhat innovative practices when it comes to reaching more marginalized groups and collecting information on them. And we also need to think long-term, as many colleagues actually have in this particular discussion have already started to do, we need to think long-term a little more about collecting data at individual level where that's practical and feasible. Because those are, that level of data really is where we can start to make an impact. What I think we found very interesting at GPE is we, following the onset of COVID, we very rapidly issued a number of grants to countries who applied. And what we saw was really that the biggest demands on the data side, the biggest demands for support, for funding on the data side, was that countries were struggling to track absenteeism, so children who weren't in schools, and they were struggling to track the outcomes for vulnerable populations. So again, I think that for me reinforces one of those points that I mentioned earlier, this need for new, more innovative, flexible, adaptive ways of gathering data. However, having said all of that, I'm also very aware that we need to think simply as well. Something that I often hear colleagues who work in technology and data say is no one needed to teach them to use their cell phone. So we need to think about how to make things as intuitive as possible, even as we think about expanding and improving and upgrading data collection. Of course, another really kind of recurrent theme is the importance of capacity building. Again, as many colleagues have pointed out, capacity building not just within the central ministry itself, but right down to a district level, to school level, not just for good data collection, but also to understand how to use data. And if we can do that effectively, we really can start to contribute a little towards a culture of data use, a culture of a data-driven culture where there really is very high demand for data, which kind of makes it a virtuous cycle. In terms of financing, what do we need to do about financing? I think Sham had the nail on the head. Basically, the big challenge that we have is that many countries, the budget for MS is not sustainable. Often MSs are put in place by donors. The money within the education budget is not ring-fenced. So it's very hard to plan and to make improvements. So we really need to think about sustainable financing for education, which is something that both countries and we in the donor community need to be thinking through as well. I think finally on the point about collaboration, this is something I would love to see more of. I know there's a real appetite, and I'm sure other colleagues in this panel will affirm, there's a real appetite to build a community. But we don't have nearly a stronger community, I think, as exists in health. One part of that is that we have quite fragmented systems. We have a number of different MS systems that are available. So perhaps that limits technical discussion somewhat. But there are so many issues that are cross-cutting. So all these capacity-building issues, for example, that we're talking about, how to do that effectively is really significant and important for us to share lessons on. But then also again to recognize this idea that the countries where we work are all at different places. And there are so many different kinds of exchanges that need to happen. There are countries who appears at very similar places with the development of their MS and data architecture. And they're kind of learning together. There are countries who maybe are a little further behind to either need to leapfrog or who need or who have the opportunity to learn from countries who have developed a little further from them. I do think there are so many opportunities. There's such strong appetite. One other thing I would like to see, which I know has been a theme and of course is very important for folks at the University of Oslo and DHIS, is the idea that perhaps there's space for a strong community of practice that cuts across social sectors. The problems in health are not that different than the problems in education. And I'm sure there's a lot to be learned as we've just seen from the previous presentation about how to develop more effective data systems across the sectors and how to work towards integrating the data that is collected through these different systems. That's just a couple of thoughts or many thoughts, rather. I'll stop there and open the floor to the next colleague to speak. Thank you so much, Margaret. And also thank you very much for highlighting the needs that have been further put into the limelight by the pandemic. And we need to all collaborate on innovation, but it doesn't have to be complex. Sometimes it will be, but it certainly doesn't have. Thank you so much. Then I'd like to hand it over to Luis Crouch. Please go ahead. Thank you, Newt. I'm going to try to share screen because I actually have a few very simple slides to show. And you'll just bear with me here. So can you see my screen? Yes, thank you. Okay, great. So what I want to do is just have literally share five slides with new directions in EMS after COVID, but also before COVID. And why I say that will be clear in a second. So I want to make just five points. Number one is that COVID was not the shining moment for EMS, honestly. And it's not that COVID created a problem for EMS, but that it revealed problems that it already had. And this is not just EMS in the developing world. It was EMS, you know, even in places that have really good EMSs. It was not ready for a pandemic, not at all. And also in general, it's not just EMS, but the whole education sectors were not ready for the pandemic. So as an example of a weakness is the failure, I will call it that, of most EMS systems to link to SMS techniques, to link to sampling, to surveys, if countries had had, as they have been advised for the last 10 or 15 or 20 years, a simple way to reach the heads of all the PTAs in the country, or even just a fixed panel of the PTAs of the countries, or the principles of the countries, and a simple system for an SMS survey application that is linked to the EMS. We could have had answers to some of these issues that arose with COVID within a week. I have seen SMS based surveys that have results in 72 hours, but we were not ready for that. So part of the implication here is we need to be much more open, much more innovative to doing things quickly, and in ways that are different from the traditional administrative systems that use sampling techniques, that use simple technology like SMS in much more direct ways. And secondly is why do we need more and better data? It's not just that we do, it's because of the emphasis on equity and equality in the SDG4. If you are managing a system towards the average kid, towards the kid at the 50th percentile of the income distribution, you can do with a lot less data. Once equity and equality become a concern, you need to have data basically school by school, not just on input, but on outcomes. And I'll give you a very simple example of why that is so important. So here's an example from some work I did in Peru, where you can look at the social economic index or the poverty of the kids in the school, and their results in fourth grade Spanish. And what you can see is that, of course, the richer kids do better. You can see that the slope of this line is positive, but you can also see that amongst the poorer schools, there are many that do excellently well. There are many schools that are for poor kids that are doing as well as for the rich kids. And in fact, what you can see is that the difference amongst the poor is nearly half the size of the difference between the poor and the rich. And we don't have a good handle on why that happens. And now that we're looking at equity and equality, not just of inputs and not just of access, but of results and learning, we must get a handle on these things. And that means doing quite a bit of innovation in EMIS by linking the administrative data sets to the exams and testing data sets and so on. Third point is that oddly, countries already produce more information than they use. There's actually more information in the EMISs and in related data sets than the countries actually use. And we need to move toward more use by actually showing and demonstrating the utility of the systems for taking managerial decisions, especially kind of school by school at district level. I think the stuff that Alpha Ba has done in the Gambia is a great example of doing that kind of thing. And that requires linking data sets. You have to link the administrative data sets to the exams or testing data sets to other data sets. That means you have to have a really clean master list of schools and all these things, which we've been talking about for 20 years or 30 years, but it's still not done. The fourth and relatedly, the other reason that we need better and more data is not just because it's nice to have, but that is that data have been reasonably adequately used, I would say, for policy and planning, but not for management. So when you talk about EMIS, the EM is not true. They have been EPIS, Education Policy Information Systems, or maybe Education Planning Information Systems. And for that, the data are not bad, but we don't have information for management because that requires desegregating school by school, linking the data sets with each other, and then empowering people at the local level to actually use the data to see why is the school mostly for poor kids, but is doing so well? Why is this school mostly catering to rich kids and has good teachers, but is doing really badly? That's crucial information that we need to manage, not just to report to the international agencies, but to actually improve. You can't improve unless you use data for management, and not just policy and planning. And lastly, more an advice for the corporates, private sector, the Microsofts of the world, the Googles of the world, whoever wants to help, but also the official agencies is how important it is to differentiate between countries within the developing world. There's no such thing as developing countries, and I'll give you an example of what I mean by that just now. So if you look at the internet usage in Finland, Chile, and low-income Africa, the blue bar is Finland, the orange bar is Chile, the gray bar is low-income Africa. And yet, when you look at World Bank, when you look even at UNESCO documents, Chile is dumped along, or put along with low-income Africa as a developing area. But Chile is already pretty close to where Finland is or will be within five years. Whereas in low-income Africa, we have really major problems with internet connectivity, the digital gap. So the digital gap within the developing countries is much bigger than the digital gap between the developing countries and the so-called developed ones. Not only that, but the digital gap within the African countries is bigger than the digital gap between Africa and the rest of the world. So we need very differentiated policies that take into account where countries really are at, just to echo what Shem and Margaret already said, but more importantly, take into account the inequities that are inside the countries. We tend to think, oh, it's the only inequity that matters is that between Africa and the rich countries? Not true. The inequities inside each African country are huge, maybe even bigger, in fact. And we need to pay much more attention to that, not only in our policies, but in our managerial information systems, but both in terms of the information that they produce, but also how information is gathered. So I'm sorry. I tried to rush through that, but I'm done now. Thank you. Thank you so much, Lise. Excellent, excellent points. And I really like how these presentations without, I don't know if you've been collaborating, but they seem to build on each other. And also, like your emphasis on the variability within countries and how schools in regions that you would expect to perform poorly, actually, some of them do excellently. I know UNICEF is also very interested in that angle of identifying positive deviants, as I think what they call them, under the Data Must Speak initiative. So these are really, really clear and very exciting points. In the interest of time, I'll just hand it over to our last presenter. Please, Pierre Chaplais from UNESCO. Go ahead. Thank you, Newton. Good morning. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to also speak today in this panel. I mean, we had very great and interesting presentations. And actually, I will try to be short because I feel that what I'm about to say was already said and addressed by the producers' speakers. Very briefly, I mean, I'd like to start, actually, by repeating what Louis just said, I mean, about somehow what I feel is an appropriate name of EMIS at this stage, with, I mean, most of the EMIS that we see that are most, I mean, oriented toward, I mean, planning rather than the management functions per se. And so there might be actually a need to rename EMIS so that we are all clear of what we speak about. But definitely, I mean, the COVID-19 crisis clearly highlighted that EMIS for planning is important. That's for sure. But EMIS for planning is not sufficient and there is really a need to consider EMIS, I mean, to support management functions of ministries and schools. Also, I mean, I will also repeat what was said before, but I feel that there is really a need to provide, I mean, practical and easy to use features to support the school operations instead of designing one-way tools. I mean, as we all know, I mean, many EMIS are designed to collect huge volumes of information from schools up to the central level to inform, I mean, planning and some management functions sometimes at the central or regional level. But oftentimes, I mean, those systems are not really serving the operational needs of schools to better operate. And this links to some other, I mean, topics that were also I like to say before, like the need somehow to somehow stop looking only at the monitoring inputs, but making sure that the EMIS is able to capture the outcomes of teaching operations in schools. This leads also to the fact that when probably EMIS needs to move to more real-time type of systems, not only providing snapshot, I mean, overviews of what is happening, but really able to provide, I mean, timely information for any decision. And actually on some, I think, critical data sets. Some, I mean, of course, I mean, link to teacher and student attendance. Also, I mean, possibly link to teacher and student allocation to schools. Those information needs to really be accurate to be, I mean, useful. And so we need to consider EMIS as a tool that is able to offer this real-time approach toward data analysis. I think also something that we need to consider when to scale up EMIS is to, and this is actually one of the challenges, I think, is to try to bridge the gap between the programmatic and planning, I mean, programmatic and managerial views of what the EMIS should do. And actually the views from the ICT or IT teams were implementing those oftentimes advanced solutions. And we can see in many, many country contexts that there is often a gap between, I mean, somehow the output system that is produced by ICT-oriented teams and the needs actually, the programmatic needs from the actual users of those systems. And I hope that some better synergies could be, I mean, established between those different groups so that, I mean, the tool are designed to reserve the purpose of the end users, not the, yeah, that's it. Also, and this was said before, I mean, in terms of financing, definitely, I mean, there is really a need for countries to secure recurrent funding and to really have, I mean, the budget allocations to sustain EMIS operations. It's, I think, I mean, the communities needs to understand that such systems are complex. They need, you know, I mean, ongoing, I mean, software, I mean, the improvement and maintenance. They need ongoing training and capacity development. And this definitely requires a significant amount of funding, which can, which needs to be, I mean, embedded into, I mean, the government budgets. Also, I would again repeat here, but I think that's the point that we need to insist on. I mean, EMIS as a tool cannot work in isolation. It must be part of, I mean, larger frameworks to sustain it. And oftentimes we find out that those tools are deployed in countries without, I mean, the proper legal frameworks and policies to sustain their deployment. So that's definitely something we need to look at. And to, to end up maybe one last point on collaboration around EMIS, for sure. I mean, we really hope that we could establish, I mean, really, I mean, the community of practice around the EMIS at the global level with some regional, I mean, groups. As you, I mean, some of you may know, we've been, I mean, UNESCO has been organizing an international seminar recently on the future of EMIS. And we hope that as a follow up to that, we will be able to contribute to the establishment of such a community of practices to help sustain and deploy those complex systems. I will stop here. I know that you are, I mean, running out of time. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. And again, very excellent points. And yes, I would also emphasize that process that I was, that it took place just a couple of weeks ago with UNESCO in having a three day webinar on the future of EMIS. I think all of those sessions are also available online if people want to see them. As will this session be, this will be actually two videos, I think available, shared and available. And as you've seen in the chat, everyone, there, we will follow up on this with a community of practice. I think Martin needs to cut me off. Is that right? Oh, no, just, yes, there will be two videos, please. Thanks, thank you. Right. Yeah, I mean, it seems like at least the panelists would have a little bit more time to stay on if there are questions from the audience. Please indicate by showing a reaction or paste it in the chat. I don't know, Sofia, if you've been monitoring the community of practice, I don't know if anyone has entered any. But I can, at least I've seen a lot of activities in the chat. And I really think that is a very cool indicator for this to move over to the CUP. We have our own community of practice supported by a software, which is not like your global at UNESCO level, but within the DHS2 community, where we really think that being able to share experiences from country to country of country implementation with DHS2 for education, we really encourage people to move over to the CUP. I can see also that people have actually get answers to the questions in the chat. So if there are no hands and discussions for the panel, I think maybe we, if no one wants to say anything, it is sort of time up and we can be interrupted. Yeah, unless some of the panelists want to comment on the other interventions, we could have a quick round of just maybe just start again from Shem and Margaret. And then just to see if you have further comments. Thank you very much. I think the one thing in which I think I was commented on is the way the presentations have been harmonized. I mean, I think we have been in this field for quite some time and we kind of interacted with each other. But I think that the key point for me is this issue of focusing at the lowest level. And this is not only the school but the learner level. And we have some good examples really, if you think around South Africa started this long time ago with their loaded system. And I think this is the way to go. Gambia is also on it now. I think if we do that, then the producers of data will see the reason why they're producing this data. I think this is really key for me. Thank you. I'd like to add to that, Newt, if I may, two seconds. I think that's the link between making the data useful and getting the system's better funding. So Margaret and Shem, I think, and maybe Pierre called for regularizing and improving the funding of image. And it's not just the funding. It's also the ability to use human resources. People who know about data are hard to find in developing countries and they get recruited by the NGOs or the private sector. So maybe they will need the support to hire the right. But here's the issue. And that is sometimes it's hard to get the support from the high levels in the ministry if we have not yet proven how useful data are. So I think there is some responsibility on us and the image community to prove to management and to the policy leaders that the data that we are producing are actually useful, not just for planning and policy, but for delivering improvement. And that ties to the issue that Shem just raised and Pierre raised that the only way you can do that ultimately is by empowering people at the school level and at the district level, not just by that old thing that you say of sending the data back down, but sending actionable data and showing how you, showing, literally showing how you can use the data to drive improvements and to produce insights from the data. As I noted in my slide, systems already produce more data than they use. So if systems are already producing more data than they use, the ministers will say, well, why do we need to fund you better because you're actually producing more data than actually get used. So we need to drive lessons around how you make the data really useful so that the leaders of the sector can say, ah, this stuff is useful. This again leading me over to the panel tomorrow where we actually are discussing designing for data use. And that's really the focus of the plenary tomorrow where we actually look at how can you innovate and also incentivize and also make better quality of the analytics, but of course being used at the appropriate level on all the levels all the way down. But I also think that some of the stories that we have heard earlier today also show great usage of the data. And I think that's very, very promising that it has happened quite a lot in a very difficult time in this pandemic. Still, it has happened quite a lot since we met last time as a global community. Sorry, this is Margaret. I was just going to add exactly the same thing, Kristin is I think all four of us pointed to the importance of data for management, but actually the super encouraging thing is almost all of the country's stories that we heard in the previous session had excellent examples of this. And to the point of a community of practice, the more we can use those stories as illustrations to peers and demonstrate really how effective this is in both speaking upwards to ministers and those within the central ministry. So they understand that it's important, but also downwards. So that the folks who teach us and learners who are actually in schools understand how powerful data can be. The more I think we'll kind of develop that virtuous cycle that I think a number of us have references to. So also just to reinforce, I found so many of the stories earlier today were really encouraging and moving in exactly the direction that I think we'd like to see. Super. Any other that would like to have a last comment? Before we end, but we are not ending because we try to move you over to the COP so we can continue. And there you find the slides, there you find the videos that you can promote to others. And there you can also be in dialogue with the presenters and we will try to make things happen there. And I really want to tell towards the end here that when the pandemic hit our globe, our whole globe, we actually were about to travel to the Gambia to have the first ever DSSU for education academy. It was postponed and that was in March 2020. And we believe and we hope that we will invite all of you to Gambia to have a new academy five days where you can share stories, encourage each other and be inspired and learn of new innovations and practices and data use in the Gambia in the fall. Depending on how the pandemic unfolds when it will be. But we are thinking of October or something. So we will announce it in the COP. So please register, please check it out. And if you have more people, don't you think we can end here Knut? Yes, yes, I was about to say that. I will just again thank the panelists so much for really, really interesting interventions. And of course, all the earlier presenters as well. So thank you all very, very much. And we look forward as Susan said, this is not the end. This is hopefully just something that will be continued and speed it up now that the pandemic hopefully is not that threatening anymore.