 Welcome back to Plus Politics, a document showing that the embattled minister of communications and digital economy, Issa Pantami, plotted with some Muslim leaders to violently wipe away Christians from northern parts of Nigeria. It says that Pantami chaired the July 13, 2010 meeting of the Yemenut Nasr al-Islam, GNI, where it was agreed that Christians would be stopped from evangelizing, whether or not this is true. We however now know the presidency stand as regards the drama circling the minister. And we ask, what are the potential security implications of the minister holding on to his office? Joining us to discuss this, we have Mr. Tony Fouyeton, a security expert. And a lot later, we'll be very likely to be joined by Kabir Adamou, also a security risk management and intelligence specialist. Thank you very much for joining us, Mr. Fouyeton. Thank you. It's my pleasure. All right. Let's start with, you know, the minister hasn't denied that this meeting held. In fact, most of the conversations that he has put out, he hasn't really denied much. We have only, you know, seen that, you know, the government has decided to forgive the minister and of course, chosen that we all move on from all of this. Do you think that this is, you know, even is possible? Is that a good step to take to ignore some of the conversations in that meeting in 2010? Well, for those of us that are in the security industry, for some of us, it is not something that is new or spectacular, except for the fact that in most cases, when we raise issues like this, those of you at the journalistic table who always ask, do you have evidence to that effect and all those things? I remember that I've granted several interviews on this platform and I mentioned the phrase sleeper cell and I remember I said that sleeper cell exists in almost every strata of government in Nigeria and that there is not, it's not, there's not a spectacular about that assertion. You remember that even the former president did say that Gohwaram were in his government and before this now, you now have a new government in place and if you studied the body language of them, the present government, you would have seen that over the years. We are really asked the question whether the government is truly interested in fighting against terrorism or is just, you know, a pampering terrorism as it were and now sleeper cells are people that are sympathetic to the cause of terrorism and they are in strategic positions and this is what you see. There is not a special about pandemic except for the fact that it is just revealed, so to say. There are many pandemics in the national assembly, in the house of rape, there are many pandemics in government as it is today and that is why we will see that we've not succeeded in prosecuting the war against terrorism the way it ought to be. And ordinarily for a country that is really enthusiastic about the prosecution of war against terrorism, anybody that is sympathetic or has been sympathetic to the cause of terrorism should not be allowed into government, not to talk about holding strategic position like that pandemic is holding. To the extent that, look, today we are talking about four million chagans or foreigners having an NIM number and it's like and see if it's in the consequential. We've had several new election will be held and you hear people coming from the jail or coming from charge to come and ask for a lot in the election. Now with that series of such, now the question will not be how come that as is is today we've not been able to prosecute those that have been sympathetic or sponsors of terrorism. It is because people like the pandemic are in government and once they are in government they will forgive themselves, they will disregard their position, they will make, you know, they will demystify everything that has to do with such a fight against terrorism and that's the way I see it. So if Mr. President, for example, want to really show him, there is no reason to keep pandemic, not even for one minute, not even for one minute. It's not in government place to say we are forgiving him for whatever reason. So it's in this information that are coming to public glare, I gave their wish and this what is happening now is more less like what do we do to salvage the whole situation. But for the good of the nation, for it, for anything, for the good of the nation and for security purpose, I think it is, it makes a lot of sense to ask pandemic to step aside. Having been indicted, have they been linked to terrorist and terrorism acts in form of meetings, in form of statements and the life. If you have also observed what has been happening in this country, you would have seen high level of immunity, high level of bravado on the side of these perpetrators of all these union acts. A lot of security officers have been killed, a lot of army, air force, number of officers have been killed. Then the question is this, what is the justice if somebody is pointed as being part of those or supporting whether strategically or in terms of standard or in a congressional level or even at governmental level supporting any act of or any act of terrorism? What is the justification for keeping such a message? All right, hold on. All right, in the course of this terrorism, do you think that they will be happy? All right, you've made really strong, you've made really strong points Mr. Foyutan. Kindly hold on. We have another security analyst, Kabeer Adabu joining us. I would like him to continue from where you stopped. Kabeer, can you hear us? Yes, I can hear you. Good evening. Good evening. Thanks for joining us. I want you to respond to statements that have been made by Tony Foyutan. Of course, previous guests, the possibility of more of the likes of Issa Pantami in the Nigerian government of today, that's one. And then second also, this one is a big one, do you think there's a way of finding out if actions were taken in the last 10 years that follow with the exact agreements from that meeting that was held in 2010? Do you think there's a way to link some of the violence that we've seen in the last 10 years across Nigeria with the agreements from that meeting? Thank you very much and I'm very happy that you used the word allegedly. We are in a same society that is guided by principles, rules and laws. And I would like to backtrack a little bit to my co-discourse, Tony. He used some terms that I think we should be very mindful. The media is an influence platform and it has tremendous listenership, especially a station like yours. Now, when you use the word indicted, my conclusion would be that a competent court of jurisdiction has indicted the personality that you are referring to. So when my co-discourse says Pantami is indicted, belonging to a cell or to have incited actions, I would presume that he's got knowledge or information suggesting that a competent court of jurisdiction has indicted him. As far as I know, no court of jurisdiction has even listened to this matter. A lot of what we're hearing is happening on the media. Now, having said that, I am a professional and when this issue came up, I analyzed it and I tried to look at the bigger picture. Now, did Pantami say that since he is alleged to have said in 2010, he hasn't released a statement yet. But several statements that have come out, he has owned up to others, he's denied and incidentally even Khan has come out to reject some of them. An example is the alleged link to the killing of the former governor of Kaduna State. So that's one. In essence, what I'm trying to say is that the social media has also taken advantage of this situation and there is a lot of fake news out there. So when we hear such things, as a professional, I would like to take a step back and do at least a collaboration and a verification and then we can reach conclusions. Now, having said that, my honest opinion on the whole matter, not just whether there is a link between what he said to the developments, let's remember that Pantami has been a public figure for quite a while. He was a DG NIDDA before he was elevated or promoted to a cabinet minister and since then he has received and conducted a lot of things. As a security professional, I know that he has made tremendous effort in providing platforms for tackling some of the security challenges that are affecting the country. Unfortunately, there are not things I can say here in public, but you are a journalist, I urge you to take your time, go to the ministry and make inquiries into some of the actions he has taken. That's one too. He has gone through the processes that every government puts in place for his verification as a minister and through that process I expect that if some of these issues that have come up to the fore are verifiable or in my Code Scotland language I have been indicted, the issues would have come up through that process of verification. Now, the third thing that I think is absolutely important for me as an analyst, anyone who feels strongly about some of these things, instead of coming to the media and use what is indicted, should actually do the two things that are available to us as citizens. Number one, see him under what law, a legend that he is a member of a terrorist organization, so see him and present the path to a competent court of jurisdiction. Let that court look into the matter and then of course if he is indicted then we all know what will happen. Number two, go to the parliament and ask any of the committees on ethics or whatever issue that we want to look into, it could be the committee on security or whatever, let them give them your evidence and present it to them so that they investigate him and come out with at least a position by the parliament upon which they can advise the executive arm of government. Now in the absence of all of this, let's remember that the federal government has taken a position on this matter and what worries me as a security analyst is the Pandora's box that we are opening. There are two tectonic issues that would either make or man Nigeria. These are centrifugal forces. Any student of political economy in Nigeria would tell you these two things have to be handled carefully. That is ethnicity and religion. Now the authors of this allegation behind Pantami are whipping up the religious sentiment. We already have a lot of centrifugal forces that are tearing at the seams of Nigeria. I do not think Nigeria can afford what I am seeing at the Pandora's box. So let me give you an example. Let's assume Pantami is sacked or removed and then his supporters, mind you he has enormous supporters within the Muslim community. Then they start demanding that Christian officials who are active members of churches, including the number two citizen in the country, should also resign. Mainly because they have professed to be part of that religious body and of course what is that religious body doing is proselytizing. So that is the Pandora's box. Imagine what would happen in that situation. I apologize for jumping in here. So for me that is the bigger picture. Because of time, I would also like to bring Antonio Foyeton here but I get the picture you're painting and I like that you've also said that a thorough investigation should be carried out and nobody should be fired simply because a few people don't like his face. But the things that have been presented as evidence against him, don't you think it's great that the Nigerian government at least looks deeper into these things instead of just waving them off? Do you think that they've done well enough in any way to assure Nigerians that these things may not hold any water when they took their decision? I think they have done a lot. Whether they've done enough or not, I am not sure. What do I mean? Pantami was nominated as a minister and after his nomination, he was presented for the National Assembly and I know the processes of verification at the National Assembly would include a background check by the various security organizations named them. All the members of the intelligence community would do their own bit, possibly other law enforcement agencies would do their own bit. So when you say whether the government has done an investigation, I think it has done that. And then I'm not a member of the government but it's very likely that when these issues came up too, they also did some levels of check. Like I said, there are laws guiding this thing. So if we're suggesting that he's been indicted under what law, I'm not even aware that anyone has gone to court with any of these allegations against him. So is the government going to rely on this media? All right, Kabir Adamo, we're going to have to put you on pause there. I want to bring Antonio Fuyetan with the time that we have left. If you can, squeeze your thoughts into 45 seconds, I would really appreciate it. Mr. Fuyetan, please respond to Kabir Adamo's take. Oh, we seem to have lost him. I think we're going to have to just wrap up the program for this evening here. Interesting perspective brought in by Kabir Adamo. I would like to say thank you for your time and for speaking with us and all our viewers this evening. Really appreciate it. Same to Antonio Fuyetan. I apologize for the network issues that we had at some point. But thank you for your time and thank you for speaking with us. We would like to have an extended conversation about this, hopefully during the week. Thanks once again. All right, thanks for staying with us. When we return after the short break, I'll be giving my take. Just before we go, who really is a national security threat to the Nigerian state? What determines national security threats and what truly is Nigeria's stand concerning terror? These are the biggest questions on the minds of Nigerians today. Sometimes Nigerians wake up and realize that they don't truly know Nigeria and what it represents. A 10-year-old boy was sentenced in Kano for blasphemy not long ago, I think about a year ago. Could he, maybe have also been seen to be young and naive or do those rules only apply to ministers? Will you leave your child in the care of a person who has made statements about his love for and love maybe on support of pedophiles in the past? Would you entrust your child in that person's care a couple of years later? What truly is Nigeria and what does it stand for? That's my take. Thank you very much for joining us on the program this evening. We'll love to see you again sometime next week. Bye-bye.