 You are listening to Teacher Talk It, supporting teachers, parents and students worldwide. Hello everyone, this is Ross at Teacher Talk It, the most influential blog on education in the UK. Today I am super excited, actually a little bit more excited than I've been for a long time on my podcast and that's no disrespect to other people that I have worked with before. But I've got three fantastic ladies joining me today. Tishara Parker, Yolanda Brown and Thiers Venolo. So let me just give you a little introduction. Here we are today to talk about World Afro Day. Thiers is a French pre-professional ballerina, a ballet dancer who hopes to leverage her experiences and platform to change stereotypes in the ballet industry. And Thiers is joining us from France, which is exciting. We've got lots of locations joining us today. Yolanda, a double mobile award winning saxophonist. I probably pronounced that word incorrectly. The UK's premier female saxophonist, I'm trying to get my words right here, Yolanda. She's also known for her fusion of reggae, jazz and soul. We all love a bit of music, so I'm really interested to pick Yolanda's brain there on what makes her, I guess, musical mojo tick also. And she chairs interest in the UK's largest music education charity, Youth Music. And then Tashara Parker. Tashara's joining us from Dallas, a reporter at WFAA News. And one of Dallas's most influential voices. And just before we came online, I told Tashara when I last visited Dallas and how things might have changed, we're gonna get an American perspective here on the world of education. So ladies, can I ask you perhaps one at a time? So we'll just start with Thiers, just to introduce yourself to listeners, maybe pick up on anything that I've not mentioned and just say hello. So hello, my name is Thiers and I'm 18 years old and I'm a pre-professional ballerina in the United States in New York City. Fantastic. And to Yolanda. Hi, thank you so much for the lovely introduction. It's great to be here with you. And I guess only to add that, especially because I'm speaking to teachers and we are celebrating you so much right now. We've just gone back to school and thank you so much for looking after our little ones during this time and still giving them education. But I also released a music education resource during lockdown, five music lessons based on the music from my CBBs television series, Yolanda's Bandjam. You've had lots of downloads already so we'll talk about that. Yes, it has indeed. So no, I really am keen on education and making sure that every child has access to music education. Right. And to Tashara, how is the weather in Dallas? Oh my goodness, that's the question everybody wants to know. Nothing else, right? I mean, the weather is all good. We've been dealing with a lot as far as the winter storm. Some of you may have heard about what we dealt with here several weeks ago and how power was knocked out. But everybody's trying to bounce back as much as we can just to piggyback off of what Yolanda Brown also added in. I'm also a part-time professor. So when you think about just education and where it starts and where it gets to, I think it's very important that we make sure that we try to debunk those myths and narratives as it relates to black hair and really just get into that conversation. But yeah, I love what I do on a daily basis. I think your greatest work is the work that you can do for others. So the fact that we're all here joined from around the world to have this conversation about World Afro Day and a Big Hair Assembly, it's incredible. And Ross, kudos to you and the work that you're doing too. Because I know your listeners were certainly learned from this conversation. So thank you, Tashara. We joked earlier that white man, no hair, shaved hair. Here we are really raising the profile of World Afro Day. Something I've been very passionate about for a number of years and having worked in interstate London secondary skills for nearly three decades, actually seeing the whole narrative evolve uniform policies, how it may inadvertently exclude children from various communities. Let's just go straight to the kind of nitty gritty before we do a little backstory on education. Can I just get why World Afro Day, the Big Hair Assembly, why it's important to you, why are you involved? So P.A.s, can I just come to you first of all for why it's important to you? Yeah, so for me, the World Afro Day is very important because growing up, I didn't have that kind of group or assembly such as the World Afro Day. And I am super happy that now the new generation has something like that. So we can all share a story and listen to other people's story. So yeah, it means a lot to me to be able to change all the stereotypes about Afro hair and to be able to share my story and listen to other people's. Now I've been having a good look at all your Instagram profiles and looking at how you're kind of talking about your own hair, your own involvement. P.A.s, tell us just some of the things you've been putting out on your kind of social media channels lately to embrace your hair. I've seen some beautiful ballerina moves. I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert in the world of ballet, seeing some incredible moves from you, but seeing your beautiful hair flowing through some of the videos. How are you kind of sharing that message, embracing your hair? Well, ballet is a very, like it's a word with a lot of stereotypes. And so we often like see ballerinas very traditional, very classical. And through my social media, I'm trying to break those kind of rules, I almost want to say, because of the lack of representation that we have on social media, but also on TV. That's why we have all those stereotypes. So through my social media, I'm trying to show that a ballerina can have up for hair. We can have up for air and dance. And we can also be a ballerina in like, I don't know, for example, street style. It's all about changing stereotypes. It is. Yolanda, how about you, World Aphrodite? Why is it important and why are you getting involved? I think it's important because it gives our hair and our journeys a voice. And we're seeing a lot now that these conversations need to happen, because sometimes it's actually a lack of understanding that brings about some of the stories that we hear. And I know we'll go into a bit later. And it's about celebrating hair diversity. And it's not, I think, even though we have the title, World Aphrodite, it's not just about Afro hair. It's about celebrating all different hair textures, trying to understand what that means. I had a lovely interview with news around a few weeks ago and I was trying to explain about doing your hair and trying to make it go in a certain direction. You just can't make it go. And the presenter didn't have Afro hair, but said, I went through the same thing. I wanted it to go this way. It would go this way. People used to call me names. So we've all had some experience. We all have hair. And so it's about celebrating that diversity and understanding each other and being more empathetic. We do. So that's probably why I really like to take part in this conversation, because I'd like to educate myself. I hope I don't make any faux pas in terms of my own maybe unconscious bias. But I'll tell you my own little hair story. I had very, very frizzy, curly hair growing up. And my mum, whenever she took me to the hairdressers, used to always say in front of me, I don't know what to do with this little boy's hair. But then I remember moving to London as a 19-year-old and in New Cross 25 years ago, it was lots of Afro-Caribbean hairdressers. Yes, still is, I think. Yeah, it still is. And they were the only people that really mastered my hair. That coconut oil and suddenly my hair became almost like a... My nickname at college was Brillo. Is it Agassiz Ashara? Absolutely, that's it. And so it is about texture. But it is about texture and it's about education. And I think it is lovely now that we have a plethora of resources and YouTube, may I say, that just helps us to better understand our hair. And I think that's the conversation that we didn't have growing up. So it's not necessarily just about those horrible stories that we hear, it's also education. How do we look after our hair and how can others benefit from it? True. Tashara, let me bring you in here from a kind of Dallas American perspective, you know, the narrative, you know, your own experiences. Let me just ask you that question. Why are you getting involved with the Big Hair Assembly in World Afro Days? Well, I think it's important for young people to see folks who look like them, you know, celebrate it, right? To celebrate their hair, to celebrate their curls, their kinks, their coils, their braids, their locks. Whatever way they choose to wear their hair is beautiful. I was just on a podcast earlier today talking to first and second graders about a new book that just came out that a lot of people are really into. It's called Hair Love. It's not that new, but it's new enough to where we wanted to discuss it. And it's just about embracing what your coils and curls are and also helping others, people who don't look like you, people who don't have the same textured hair as you, to also know how to embrace them as well. And if you're in a situation as a child, again, while I'm being a part of World Afro Day Big Hair Assembly, if you're in a situation where you see a classmate or another student that's being teased or bullied or whatever the case may be, are talked about in a negative manner because of how they choose to wear their hair, that you will no doubt step in and help those individuals. That's what the challenge was on our call today just to discuss what it means to be an advocate to embrace others who don't look like you and also step in the gap when something does happen or someone is being teased for a certain reason. So I just think it's important to be involved with events like this, especially around the world. I remember when I had a hair situation, I'll just call it that. I know we'll get into it a little later. But I remember when I had a hair situation and I had people reaching out to me from Australia, from the UK, from all across America, all around the world. And that let me know that this is much bigger than Tshara. This is much bigger than the United States and this is much bigger than just across the pond. This is a huge issue and we are all dealing with it. And it dates back many, many years. And there is a reason that we've been conditioned to fill a certain kind of way about beauty standards and what's considered beauty and what hair is considered beautiful. So that's why I'm involved in it because I really need young men and women to know that their hair is beautiful no matter how they wear it, no matter how it grows out of their scalps. I am silently nodding like one of those dogs at the back of the car all the time. Now a question I always ask is describe your 16 year old self. Now, Tess, I know you said you were 18 when we first came on the call. So what I probably want to see that question towards is describe your school experience, perhaps. But could we just get down to the nitty gritty, let's talk about some of those difficult conversations or those school experiences that weren't helpful and could have been dealt with better. Can you, if you're happy to give us an example? Yes, well, when I was at school, I was living, when I was still here living in France, I was in a very small town and I was probably the only one in my school with that poor hair. So people found it weird. They will come up to me and touch it and be like, oh, like your hair is funny or, you know, and being young and not having representation on TV. And at that time I was not on social media and I didn't have anyone in my school looking like me. I felt like it was kind of awkward. I was not sure about like how I should wear my hair. I felt really insecure. So after that, after all the people judgment opinions also, I started to straighten my hair and put it in a bun. And this is when I moved to the United States that I started to embrace the beauty of my hair because I saw other people who looked like me and I was like, yeah, like after hair is beautiful and I should just embrace the beauty of it and stop maybe like putting my hair all the time in a bun or straightening my hair all the time. And it took a lot of time, but it got there. And now I'm happy to say that I love my hair and it's... Yeah, I mean, I'll go back to one of your Instagram videos recently posted your long hair flowing as you kind of bend the move or so to speak. And you can clearly see that you have embraced that. Could I just put you on the spot and just ask, looking back to your own school community, any recommendations for schools in small communities in France to embrace better school policies, role models, those types? What would be your kind of hopes? Well, more representation. I feel like this is more in general than just in school. Like there should be more representation of us on TV. I mean, it's getting there, it's getting better now, but it's kind of late. Like it's 2021 and only since last year, we saw much more representation on TV and we talk more about half-forehead. It became like a community. And this is kind of new. Sure, thank you. Yolanda, London, did you grow up in London? Did you go to school, you're 16 year old self? I know I'm casting my mind back, I tell you. Yes, I did, I grew up in East London. I won't ask how many years. I've stopped counting now. Yeah, grew up in East London and it's really interesting and this is why I love being a part of the Big Hair Assembly and World Afro Days. I don't really have an experience of anybody saying anything to me about my hair. I always wore my hair, how I felt like it. I went through the same things as a teenager. I went it straight, I went it curly. So all of those things were normal in the upbringing for me and I thank my parents really that they just gave me the confidence as a black girl growing up in, well, there weren't many black people where I grew up but I was always just very proud of where I came from and maybe... What were you like as a 16 year old then? As a 16 year old, I was... Year 11. Yeah, year 11. So I guess happy go lucky. I have to say, I really do thank my parents but maybe they shielded me and this is why I want to be a part of this because I didn't have that experience and if somebody did probably put that on me, it just, it came off because I didn't really carry it with me. There's one thing that did shock me though. I love to wear my hair in a bun when I was in year 11. So I did straighten my hair and I used to wear it in a bun and I was very proud of my shape. I worked very hard on it. And I remember sort of meeting people out and about and they say, oh, your hair's lovely. Is it yours? And I didn't even know what that meant. Well, yeah, I think it is. I was going, and it's only later on that I've understood that they meant, is it a wig or is it a wig or how much did you pay for it? I never in my mind thought that that was a question that you wouldn't ask somebody, is it yours? No, so that's probably one thing I'd like to explore, the extensions and weaves because my life as a school leader, picking up girls on the corridor and I said, I'm just doing my weave, give me a second all that time. How long do you give them before you tell them off for being late to class? Your homework, Yolanda, were you the person that did it the night before or were you someone that were well-organized? Oh, I'm always a last-minute.com person. I still am now. I just, I work really well under pressure. Let's put it that way. OK, good. Tishara, when you were 16-year-old, describe what you were like as a teenager and any interesting experiences. I like to think I was a boss when I was just kidding. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. No, 16-year-old me, you know, I think I was just the person, like I was, I wanted to stand out, be the person I stood out, but I also wanted to fit in as well, right? Didn't want to stand out too much. And so when it comes to hair, even before 16 years old, I just can think about times where I was told my hair was too big, it's too rough, it's too tough to comb and to deal with. I have big old hair and I have pictures that I can show you guys. I should have posted on my social media of me with just big afro hair until I didn't have it anymore. I got a perm when I would say I was about eight or nine years old and for some people, you're listeners who may not understand what a perm means to a black woman, to a person of color, a perm is not to make your hair curly, a perm is to relax your hair, so relax or maybe a better term for it, to relax your hair and straighten it out so that it's easier permanently. Exactly, thank you. So that it's easier for someone to deal with, right? And so I just remember those situations. I remember my dad seeing my hair because my grandmother was the one who actually got the perm put on my hair, but I remember my dad seeing that and he was just so upset that my grandmother allowed someone to perm and straighten my hair that way. And so I look back to those moments, again, this is well before 16 years old, just thinking like, man, if they just had the courage to just kind of fight it out, keep going, keep going, and then wait time was old enough to actually make that decision for myself, then maybe we wouldn't be in the situations that we're in now as far as like hair, you know, acceptability and all that kind of stuff. Even in the hair sector, so to speak, there are certain myths and stereotypes also perpetuated. Could you help listeners understand some of those Tashara that you just talked about? Absolutely, so I am a journalist. I'm an on-air anchor reporter for the station ABC Dallas here in the United States. And one of the things that has been perpetuated in my industry is that, you know, a bob, like a straight bob, straight hair, you know, maybe that's around the world, but for sure in the industry that I'm in here in the United States, that's what people are used to. So for me, someone to show up with an afro, wearing my hair in puffs, wearing my hair in all these different styles, I started to receive a lot of negative feedback. And I think a lot of that feedback is deeply rooted in those stereotypes that we've had for so long, what we've accepted for so long as what the status quo was for your hair and how it should look and how you should behave and how you should act and talk and walk and all of that. It all goes back to years and years, you know, prior to now. And so, yes, I do think that straight hair is one of the stereotypes that we have in the industry. And I think that young girls, when they watch TV or they turn on the news and that's all they see, then that's what they're going to want, you know, their hair to resemble, something straight. If that's what all their classmates look like, that's what they're going to want their hair to look like. So again, being a part of this organization, this event, I think it's important that we show them that their hair is just as beautiful. And I aim to do that every single day, whether it's on social media, whether it's the stories that I tell on a daily basis, whatever it may be. Again, I was telling you earlier today, I was just on the Zoom call with 30 plus first and second graders talking about hair. So I think it's important to always make sure that people can see different images of themselves. Yeah, so again, having a little bit of research and preparation for this, I could see Tashara on your channels. You've been sharing your Afro and all its glory. So it's been, I guess there's a lot of pressure also with working in the media that, as you've mentioned, they maybe be presentable in a certain way, whether that, well, we know that those things are probably not helpful. So we'll unpick that a little bit more. I wanna just come back to the point of the Big Hair Assembly in World Afro Day, which is a great opportunity to educate everyone and to bring all communities together. So Tiase, can I just bring you back in here? How are you getting involved and what are your hopes for the Big Hair Assembly? I'm hoping with that to be able to, as I mentioned, change stereotypes and also to be able to make the younger generation feels better about their hair and just embrace the beauty of it because Afro Day is beautiful and we shouldn't be feeling like insecure or bad about our hair. We should just be able to accept how we look and don't have to go through people's opinion and judgment. Thank you. Yolanda, how are you getting involved? Dare I say music is gonna be a feature? Well, no, I'm using my other hat for this. I'll be hosting alongside Tashara, the Big Hair Assembly, which will be streamed out to different schools and actually people can sign up now if they go to worldafroday.com and there they can sign up and be able to be part of the live stream. So I'm looking forward to hearing people's stories as well because I think it's important that we do share these stories. As I say, I grew up and I didn't have that experience. I mean, it's important. There's a lot of people that don't actually understand that that even exists. So it's very important that we shine the light and also help those. I mean, the story that Tashara shared there, it does touch my heart. Now that I have children of my own, I've got a seven-year-old and a one-year-old and I remember when I first had my first scan for my first daughter Jemima and heard it was a girl, the first thing I thought of was, oh my God, the hair. And I took it up on myself to actually educate myself to understand how do I maintain her hair? Yolanda, I'd like to unpick that one. I have to claim ignorance and naivety here. So what emotions went through your head as a mother-to-be, a black woman, a child, a girl, the afro hair, give me just some of those insights. There were emotions that you went through. Yeah, so for me, I went on a journey because I did relax my hair. My mom wouldn't let me at a young age and I had to ask and ask and ask until I was about 13. And I really did want to wear a bob. That was the style I wanted to wear. I didn't feel a pressure. It was just the style I wanted to wear. And I did really enjoy my hair. And I think also the technology wasn't there as much. Now you can get sort of a Brazilian press, is it called? And you can really, you can straighten your hair to look exactly like a perm and then wash it out and still have your texture back. I didn't have a clue about any of that and it wasn't as easily accessible in our day. And so. Interesting what Tashara said, that the perm means the opposite to straighten, just to straighten Tashara. So I've got a disclaimer here. I had that Chris Waddle perm in the early 80s in England. So that's going to the barber to get your hair curled. Well, it's the same process. But the thing is here in the UK, we call it a relaxer. So it relaxes the texture of your hair and it straightens it. But it is irreversible. You'll have to cut your hair to go back. So yes, I was pregnant with my first daughter. And then it was the time of the natural hair journey and it was called a journey. And I went on that journey myself because as a mum and a mum to be, you start thinking about your body and how you're looking after yourself. And I didn't want to put chemicals on my hair or on my scalp and I was scared it was going into my system, all of those things. So I stopped relaxing my hair but then this texture was growing underneath and I had to get to know it again. And things like we're grown up thinking that, we shouldn't have water near our hair. Don't bring water near, but that was because we were scared of the shrinkage. But actually our hair needs moisture. It needs that coconut oil, it needs hydration. And so it was a whole education in understanding hair types, porosity, all of those things. And I didn't have any of that growing up. But now I can share that with my daughter now at the age of seven and she can be proud of her natural texture and know how to wear it. As we get into deep knowledge about hair, you can start to realize it's, the reason why people become qualified hairdressers. It's an education. A whole complex field in its own right. Tashara, how are you getting involved with World Afro Day and the Big Hair Assembly? I am doing whatever they need me to do. Of course, like Yolanda said, I am going to be hosting alongside her but what I think is really cool that folks don't have to wait until the day of World Afro Day to be a part of it. She mentioned this early on. Go sign up now, worldafroday.com. Share a post here and there. Share something on social media just to let people know that you are involved. And I think it's incredibly important again that we just share those stories. A lot of people are naive to the fact that this is an issue. And I think if we continue to put the message out there to continue to educate the masses on a daily monthly, weekly basis, you see how early we're trying to get this information out then maybe as we start the next school year when more kids will be back in the classroom together they can actually spread that message with one another or amongst the teachers and educators can spread that to students. So I think it's just very important to be a part of it. Of course, again, I'm hosting it but there are so many events leading up to World Afro Day and the Big Hair Assembly that you can get involved in. So I'm going to do whatever I need to do whether it includes being on podcasts with Ross or whatever it is. Fantastic. So well, I'm picked some things that the schools can do. Yolanda, I'd like to bring you in here. You've been doing some work with schools during lockdown and your own homeschooling challenges as well, I'm sure. The question I have for you is, what can schools do to be more inclusive? It's a hard question but there are some practical things that schools can do. What would be your recommendations? You know, in anything, it's making space, you know and I understand the pressure that is on teachers and schools to make sure that they get the results that are needed and that all the children have got the education and national curriculum that they need. I think it's very important to make space for understanding disability, for understanding hair, understanding the struggles that people are going through be it socioeconomic, just being family. And I think, especially now that we've been through lockdown and the year that we've been through the anxieties that a lot of our children carry, it's important to make sure that that conversation is freely open, you know. As a teacher, hearing that you coming across a student in the hallway and, you know, being respectful like, okay, you got to do your weave but you also got to be at school, you know. But actually trying to understand that, what is it you're going through? If they walk out into the school and their hair is all over the place, that will affect their confidence and they won't learn anyway. So I think we do need to be empathetic as teachers. We need to understand, you know, don't just project whatever the feeling is but understand where your child is coming from. And one thing I've learned both by being a mother but working in schools and speaking to children is that they are so perceptive. They really do understand a lot and they have a lot of questions but sometimes they're not allowed to ask it. So creating that forum is really, really important. It is and, you know, I guess, you know, speaking academically from a researcher's perspective, you know, there's the whole peer network within schools and even in classrooms that teachers don't necessarily get into. So, you know, if I wear my hair in a certain way, so-and-so over there is going to think X and speak to me later in the playground and things. Tia, I'd like to bring you in here in terms of, you know, a school classroom perspective, you know, what can teachers do to help, you know, classrooms come a bit more together, you know, you recently out of school yourself. You know, maybe think of those teachers in your own experiences who made the classroom community a bit more of an inclusive space. And I know that you mentioned that you came from a, you know, a small community in France. Any recommendations? Well, yes, I think that teacher needs to be more open. I mean, for where I lived in the Southwest of France, because people had no idea that I was dealing within security with my hair. And now for the word after day that I'm talking about all of that people reaching out to me and they're like, oh, like I didn't know that you feel this way about your hair. So I think it's really about being more open-minded, speaking and also, you know, sometimes at school how you are watching movies and we are always watching very classical movies. So I think it would be nice to open the minds of the teachers and also maybe they should be, they should maybe listen more to their kids because I feel like sometimes, you know, we have to get stuff done at school and like the teacher are not very listening. So I think, yeah, that- Yeah, maybe more Netflix movies in classrooms rather than always your traditional Shakespeare. Yes, definitely. Tishara, I'd like to just bring you in here. From your work at TV, how can you, you know, we have quite a challenge here in England with freedom of speech versus what presenters can and can't say for their employees. I suspect you've got the same challenges working for your TV network. You mentioned that you wear your hair in a certain way to help bust those stereotypes. What kind of practical things can you say or do while you work out there? Well, look, I think that it doesn't matter what field you're in and this, the conversations that I have on the air every day go well beyond the field of journalism, right? I think whatever field you're in, we are all meant to be lifelong learners. Educators are meant to be educated as well. And so I think with all of that, as it relates to the conversations that I am able to have, I am able to speak with facts. I am able to speak from my heart and actually bring up resources and tell folks about these surveys and studies that have been done on black women in the professional workspace and how, you know, 30% or I can't think of the exact number right now, but you give what I'm saying, a percentage of women have been, you know, shown the dress code policy more often than not that includes all of these grooming standards that probably weren't created by other black men and women who look like them, right? These are standards that have been in place for a really long time. So I think at the end of the day, we all need to continue to be lifelong learners and just be willing to be open and to having that conversation with everyone as a presenter, as a TV anchor, it goes beyond that. You know, this is just a platform that I've been given, but as of late, you know, I've been doing my own series leading up to World Afro Day to make sure that I can educate other folks about the stories that we're all dealing with. And these women are from all different backgrounds. That's what's so incredible about, you know, the Big Hair Assembly and World Afro Day is you can bring all different kinds of people together to really join one another to have these conversations. But yes, as a TV anchor, there's only so much you can say, but one thing that we can all say across the board are to lace people with facts. And that's what I do every single day. Right. Now, I know my life as a blogger. I've written about short hair policies, you know, kids with lines and those getting excluded from schools, equally working with children, you know, rastafarian community, long dreadlocks, equally being asked to tidy their hair and being excluded. I mean, I remember just sharing this on my blog and receiving some criticism, you know, from the powers that be that I suppose that I was maybe, you know, I get into the complicated worlds of freedom of speech, you know, the power that is at play, the dichotomy of, you know, traditional forms of power, et cetera. It's, I think we all have a duty to speak up and to make our communities more inclusive. I guess from the World Afro Day and Big Hair Assembly. So just remind listeners, the Big Hair Assembly and World Afro Day is accessible and inclusive. It empowers young people and trains teachers about this area. And that reminder that website, worldafroday.com, we've got a long way to go to this assembly, ladies. So could I just ask some two or three things that I might wanna do as an individual, you know, a teacher listen to this podcast, you know, the remote teaching world, the pandemic, the things that I may not be able to see my children, I may be in the classroom with my children. Can we just get two or three practical ideas that I could just do in my own little classroom, whether it's discussion, share an image, any suggestions? Yolanda, how about you first, give me one or two tips? Yeah, I think representation is something that we hear a lot of. So as a teacher, when you're building your, or you're planning your lessons, do think about, you know, what are, whether the children seeing, who are they being inspired by and do they look like them? And this will affect people in different areas of the country as well. Because there is an onus on the teachers to inspire their children as well and to make sure that they're seeing people like them that they can sort of aspire to be. And also, I think, you know, for World Afro Day in particular, starting a conversation like, what's your favorite hairstyle? Or, you know, what do you love about your hair? I'm always having a positive spin, but then allowing, you know, especially people with Afro hair, the chance to speak about what they go through. You know, what is a wash day? That's a ceremony in itself, you know? Explain what is extensions, you know? And it's not for everybody. I think this is also to point out that not everybody wants to speak about their hair. Not everybody wants to have to explain that I've got Afro hair. But for me, personally, I love to be that person that educates even the other day as an adult and wearing my hair in my fro-hawk, Afro style. I met a gentleman who was held the door open for me at a hotel, I was on tour. And he said, wow, your hair's lovely. I said, oh, thank you very much. Do you mind? This is, I shouldn't say it, do you mind? I said, no, just say it. What do you want? I said, can I touch it? And it's not for everyone. I'm not gonna lie. And I said, of course you can. And a grown man in his 40s was there touching. And it's the first time he would probably ever get the chance to feel Afro hair. But it's an education. He said, thank you so much. I've always wondered. And if I could spend more time with you, I'd ask you how you care for it. But I'm just really intrigued as to what it feels like because people wouldn't know. And what you don't know sometimes can scare you. I remember touring in India and children putting their hands into the car to try and feel my hair. I know that I'm put on this earth to spread the word. It's not for everyone. Do you have to, if I'm a white teacher working in a predominantly white community and there's no role models, no kids with Afros, any tips? Yeah, I know have the conversation, maybe share an image, but some things that we should say, shouldn't say something to be cautious of, perhaps any recommendations? You know, this is a lovely sort of time that teachers can have with their children called philosophy for children. And even if you don't have people of the same culture around, it's a chance for you to be empathetic to them. So you can share a story of, you know, for example, there's a news anchor in America who has been receiving these emails because people don't like her hair. How do you think she feels? What do you think people should think? And actually opening the discussion, it's not about preaching, but it's about being empathetic. And how do you think that person feels who has dreadlocks and being told to cut them off? But that's their hair. How do you think it feels? And actually for teachers, that's a good place to start when you're sort of saying, you can't wear that hairstyle. Actually think back to what is the culture? Why do they have that hairstyle? And maybe come from that angle first. Now, I want to, I'd like to jump in here real quick. I was going to ask you for Shahra actually. Yeah. Can I ask you about that experience, you know, where you received all these messages? How you dealt with it? What tips you would recommend to other people listening that might go through that experience? Yeah, sure. And again, to Yolanda's point, you know, not everybody wants to talk about it. I could have easily ignored those emails, kind of kept it moving. You know, people are going to say what they want to say on social media. You know, you can kind of just look past it. I think I was at a point though, where I really felt like I needed to not only use my platform, but also as a journalist, find time to educate people because you don't know what you don't know. And again, sometimes maybe it's ignorance. I'm sorry to say it, but sometimes it can be. And I just think it's important that before we start to condemn someone else for something they didn't know, please allow me to help you and to allow me to try to teach you. As it relates to educators, what I think is really important is, you know, today, right? As when I had an earlier Zoom call with the first and second graders, the librarian is a white woman. She told me to Shar, we prepared for this conversation with you. I say, oh, well, how did you do that? She said, well, I read this book. She read a different book that wasn't the hair love book that we were gonna read to discuss afro hair and natural hair. She read a different book that schooled her and educated her on what the things are that some of these students may be going through. And she introduced that and she said, we've been having conversations about this. And I was so happy and proud to be a part of that conversation with them and to further that. So, you know, there are books out there. There are things that educators can read to kind of help them as Yolanda mentioned, to start to prepare curriculum and start having those conversations. I know that educators already have more than enough on their plates. We know that. But to make sure that you're creating those inclusive environments, we gotta go that extra step to do, we have to do in books is certainly one way to do it. You know, people are a bit shy of having difficult conversations, Tashara, aren't they? How could I encourage more teachers listening to talk about these things and any tips, recommendations to have that difficult conversation? Well, I would just say if you are going to be in a space where you are, you know, most of the times you're gonna have people of all different ethnicities there that are a part of your classroom. I would just say start to educate yourself first. Maybe talk to your friends and family members or cousins or distant cousins, you know, of other races, people of color to try to get a better understanding. Cause I think that can kind of ease you into it because you won't really hold back with them maybe, especially if it's a close friend or someone you can talk to, maybe you won't hold back with them. Then as you start to understand more, you can have that conversation in your workspace or with your students or whatever the case may be. But start at home, start with your family, start with your friends and just kind of ease into the conversation because when you go head first, you might not be prepared for what people are gonna say or for how people are gonna react or respond. So maybe just start with the people that are around you, the ones that are closest to you to kind of get a better understanding for yourself. Thank you. Okay, so I got a question back to school, I suppose. What recommendations would you have for teachers to make lessons a bit more engaging? So I wanna kind of bring in your ballerina expertise here, how you produce engaging content online, how you perform. I'm a design and technology teacher, so my whole experience in schools is children making things. And at least here in England, there's a huge narrative of academic subjects, through English math sites, not necessarily creative subjects. And we know that there's a place for all subjects in our curriculum and all children to be successful in those different types of fields. I guess the question is, can teachers make lessons a little bit more exciting to suit children who maybe don't have a role model or a stereotype? I think that it's important for the teacher to be, as I mentioned, to be open about what's going on in the world and who are the role models, like who are famous at the moment, because sometimes, as I say, like for my school, for my experience, all the time the teacher they were using, always the same role model, which for sure was a role model with a four hair. So I think, yeah, just be able to see what's going on in the world. Educate yourself, as Yolanda and Tasha were mentioned. And also I want to say that Hair Love is a very nice book to read, because it shows like from a little girl, how she, like from where she is to where she go. So we see the evolution of how she don't feel confident about her hair, to how she embrace the beauty of it. So we often, we can think that it's only for children, but now it's very good to educate yourself. So thank you, ladies. Yolanda, can I just ask you to bring in and just reference some of those links for people to check out in the lead up to the Big Hair Assembly? The website, www.worldafroday.com. And if you head over there, there's lots of information about different things are happening on the way up to the Big Hair Assembly. And of course the day itself, where I know that you'll be hearing from different people as well. And I think sharing those stories is the most important thing because everybody's journey is unique. And again, I have to emphasize that it is an all-inclusive experience for everyone to share. It is entitled Afro Day, but it is for everyone to share their experiences with their hair. Because also as somebody that only knows Afro hair growing out of her head, I don't know what other people experience with their hair texture. So it's an education for me too. And I'm really excited to learn. Thank you. So we've covered some big themes here, unconscious bias, stereotype, role models, racism, inclusion policies, lots of big, big topics. And I know that the World Afro Day will discuss those in some shape or form through the assembly. One thing I didn't let you know beforehand is at the end of my podcast, I like to throw a little kind of quiz question to each of you. So you can't pause or hesitate. So I'm gonna just pose the same question and then we'll do a little kind of whistle stop tour and see how we get on. So I'll just start with the first question. Tia, she mentioned a book that people could read. Could you recommend that one again just for listeners and just tell everybody else what book you're reading? The book is called Hair Love. Hair Love and a book that you're reading personally, another one. At the moment I'm reading a book about being more confident. And it's in French, but it's all about like people in securities. It's called Les Anglicieux. Okay, great. I won't try to pronounce that, apologies. Can you translate that in English for us? It's like the five things that hurts you. Okay, nice. So I'll check that out. Yolanda, how about you? A book on the theme of afros and a book that you're personally reading. So there's a book called Daddy Do My Hair, which is also another whole topic about dads getting involved in children's hair care. It's not just a mom thing. And I'm just going to get her name up here by Tola Okogwu. So it's a lovely sort of experience of how dad is trying to make a style out of his daughter's wonderful afro hair. And then my personal book at the moment is one that I was actually reading as I was interviewing the author and it's now become my staple. I've got Post-it notes all over it and it's called How to Become More Animal by Melanie Challenger. And I love the idea of going back to our base instincts. That's fantastic. Okay, Tashara, how about you? A book on the theme of afros and something that's on your table that you're reading. I will second what Tayce mentioned. Herra Love, because I just read that earlier today and I think it's an amazing book. But I know you guys, if you remember, I said the librarian at the school that I read to, she mentioned a book. And the book that she mentioned was An Old to the Fresh Cut Crown. It's a very, very good book. So look that up and find that one. So I think that's a good one for folks to kind of dig into. As far as what I'm reading now, I'm reading A Knock at Midnight. It's a book by Brittany K. Burnett. It is a book about the criminal justice system in the United States and the injustices that are happening in the criminal justice system. So two complete opposite ends of the spectrum, but certainly some good read for you. Fantastic. Next question. So let's speed things up a little bit. And Ace, if the four of us got together and we went out for 24 hours in Southwest France, where would we go for dinner? What would you show us as landmarks? I would definitely show Berets. Berets, I've been to Berets, very nice. What would we do? Where would you take us? I will take you to like the first coffee place there. It's very French and cute. I don't know if you know that Macaron place, Lagerade. It looks like that. It's super cute and French. And view on the sea, so very beautiful. Very nice. Yolanda, East London, where would we go? What would we do? Well, I'm all about views. When people come to another country, it's all about getting the full scape. So I love this place called Duck and Waffle, which is in Heron Tower in central London. And you get to see everything. And it's open 24 hours. So for a musician, after a gig, after you've come to one of my concerts, then we can go and have something to eat afterwards and have a good view. Excellent. And Tashara Dallas, where would we go? What would we do? Woo, where would I take you? Let's see. So first, you will eat like Texans. OK, I will take you to some barbecue to a place called Turkey Leg Paradise where you will eat with your hands and enjoy a huge turkey leg if you eat meat. Sorry for my folks who don't eat meat. So if you eat meat. OK. As far as as far as where I would take you, I don't know, maybe reunion tower so we can go all the way up to the top of reunion tower and just look at the beautiful skyline of Dallas. And it is beautiful. OK, great. Next question. If you weren't doing your dream job now, what's that abstract off the career role that you would like to add, Tate? I would love to do something like if I was not doing ballet, I would do something in the fashion industry. OK, fashion, Yolanda, how about you? If you ask the 16 year old me, I always wanted to be a Formula One racing driver. So I would be the Lewis Hamilton of the day. And Tashara. Civil rights attorney. That's what I would be doing. Yeah. OK, Tashara, back to you. Who who's your number one follower on Instagram apart from teacher toolkit, of course. Of course, right. I'm going to make that happen. Let me see. Number one, follow. Who do you go to daily? Michelle Obama, Yolanda. Oh, that's been a lot of time on Instagram, I'm afraid. Number one, follow word. Oh, oh, oh, I don't know. You'll have to Tashara now that I know all about her story. And I love when she has the camera on and she's there doing auto queue. I think it's fantastic. That's a skillful woman. Right. And Tia, how about you on Instagram? I would say Misty Copeland because she always she shares like her dancing, but also other people's story about after hair, but also like ballet, discrimination in ballet. OK, fantastic. Back to you, Tia. So who would you recommend I interview next and why? I'm sorry. Can you say that again? Who would you recommend I interview next and why? Oh, Melinda Matukas, because she's a very strong woman, powerful. And she has a lot of things to say about her industry, but also about half for hair and discriminations in general. Fantastic, Yolanda. Thank you, Tia. Oh, I think you should interview. Oh, oh, this is very hard. It's very difficult. Can you can it be anybody under the sun? Well, yeah, why not? Let's go off the wall. Is it in reality? It'd be nice to get someone in reality, but OK. In reality, I would say, could you interview? I'll come back to you in a second. I'm back to me. Shara, who would it be for yourself? Oh, I know, I've got it now. Oh, because I don't have it. I know who you need to interview. Right. You need to interview my mum. Right, well, let's sort it out. Because she was she was the head principal adviser for all of the primary schools in Ealing and she's got a fantastic journey. Oh, I have to do that. And speak to her about her handwriting. It's very, very, very impressive. OK, to Shara, any recommendations? Yolanda did all of that to come up with a brilliant answer. My goodness. Well, I don't know how. Opal Brown, Opal Brown. I don't know how realistic mine is, but, you know, maybe Kamala Harris, you know, first Asian vice president here. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe maybe that's someone to look forward to. Yeah, no, that'd be amazing. Right. One one more question then to Shara, back to you. If I was on the television in your seat, what would be your top tip so I didn't make any bloopers? What if you were on the television in my city? What? If I was sitting in your seat doing TV, what are your kind of top tips so that you don't make mistakes? Relax, Ross, just relax, relax and be yourself. We are so intrigued with being other people and mimicking what other people are doing that sometimes you forget who you are. So just relax, be yourself, be confident in all you do and know that if you don't get it right the first day, you got four more days in the week to try to make it happen. And if that doesn't work, try it again next week. Fantastic. Good advice there. Be yourself. Yolanda, how do I get front row seats at your next concert? Yeah. Oh, well, I think you're going to ask me about being on stage. Yeah, I'm on stage. So where's the best position if I was in the audience? Well, in the audience, yeah, front row seats is great. But actually, I do make sure as a performer to make sure I include the whole room. Everybody's up and dancing and included so you can sit anywhere. But on stage, I would say be in the moment. Is it's you can get too much in your head sometimes, but actually just be in that moment and create. I play in improvisation. What's your last minute routine before this curtain goes up? I don't have one. I don't have one because I might be doing press. I might be doing something. But actually, the last thing I do is take a deep breath and forget everything. Doesn't matter how many times you rehearsed or what the show is. I just want to make that moment be very, very special. OK, thank you, Yolanda. And it's over to you in terms of I won't. Maybe I could do a ballet move on this this call. Let's wait and see. But any any recommendation for someone who's a novice to the world of ballet? And, you know, I guess I'm talking to you here from an English perspective where we could go to the Royal Ballet Theatre and things like that. But any kind of places for people to get first immersed with the world of ballet kind of YouTube channels and places to have a look at? Yes, definitely. YouTube is a great place to educate yourself on ballet, but also social media. Like big ballet company post a lot on social media, ABT is a really good one to look at because they show like the like behind the scene and also on stage. So it's always nice to see what's going on, like in real souls. And like also dancer is having fun, like being a dancer is super fun. And sometimes when we see ballerinas, we think that we are super like strict and we don't have love and fun in real souls. So yeah, definitely ABT official Instagram. It's a fascinating, you know, the whole performance, the storytelling, you know, the techniques. I'm going to stop talking there before I expose my naivety. But it's a fascinating world. My last question to you each, I guess, from an Afro big hair assembly perspective, what would you hope to be your legacy? So Tashara, over to you kind of, you know, when we all part this world at some stage in the future, what do you hope to impart to the world to leave the place and the better? Yeah, so that little dash that's going to be on my tombstone, I want to make sure that that dash is something that people can remember that I just tried to help other people. That's it. I just want to be remembered as someone who did the very best, no sleep, no nothing like trying to help every moment that I was walking this earth. That's what I want to be remembered for. It can be for World Afro Day. It can be for the big hair assembly. It can be for the work that I do on a daily basis. I just want to be remembered as somebody who tried their very best to help the next person. And quick question to Shara, where can people find out more about you? Your links, your Twitter, your IG? Yeah, TasharaParker.com and also at Tashara Parker. Of course, I'm sure you'll have some notes here, but at Tashara Parker is where you can find me on all social media. And I'm even on Clubhouse too, by the way, if you guys have heard of that. So yeah, at Tashara Parker. Thank you, Yolanda, how about yourself, your legacy? I've just got into Clubhouse, so I'm following you tonight. OK, my legacy, I want to spread joy. That's all that I want to do in anything that I'm doing. And with that joy and hopefully happiness and refuge, I then want to make change and bring about conversations for always within a safe and joyful place. Yes, lovely. There's some words emerging here. And Yolanda, your links online, websites? Yes, so my website at YolandaBrown.co.uk, everything that I do, all the different hats that I wear are on there. And you can find me on social media at YolandaBrown on everything. And so please join happiness. And today, so over to you. What would you hope to be your legacy? I really hope to be able to change all those stereotypes in the ballet world because, yeah, there is too much stereotypes. And sometimes it's hard because even just, you know, going to an audition, people are looking at you from head to toe because you don't look like a ballerina. And there is no a wide way to look. So, yeah, it's all about changing stereotypes in the ballet industry. Fantastic. What a great message. And today's your your Instagram channel and any websites for people to see you. Yes, I have Instagram and my Instagram is Thais French Ballerina. Fantastic. I'm already following. Yes, Yolanda. Can I say to Thais as well, thank you for being such an inspiration because my daughter was glued to the TV when she saw you on the Amazon ad. And she honestly, that when we talk about representation, you've done it for my daughter over Christmas is beautiful. Thank you. And I also I also just want to add in taste just for you being here. You you alluded to the next generation fairly often. You are the generation that we have been preparing for. So thank you for all that you're doing and being a part of this. And I would encourage you. I've met Misty Copeland once, but I would encourage you to message Misty Copeland and see if she has some feedback for you. Yes, I've been talking to her a little bit. Good. Yes. Excellent. Well, that's really good to hear so much. So, ladies, I cannot tell you how what an honour it is to have a bit of your time and to kind of unpick this really important topic known my own journey within education over the last 30 years and my own experiences with my own hair and also learning about others. So thank you so much for your time. It's been a real pleasure to listeners. You can follow more on teachertalker.co.uk, the most influential blog on education in the UK. I'm Ross McGill. I've been joined by Tashara. Thank you, Tashara. Thank you. Yolanda in East London. Thank you so much. Great to speak to you. And Tays in South West France. Thank you. Yes. Thank you very much. It was a pleasure being here. Bye, everybody. Thank you for listening to this podcast. To continue the conversation, head over to www.teachertalker.co.uk and our social media channels to access all the links and resources mentioned on today's show. Why not share this with your colleagues and give them the gift of time, reduced workload and increased impact until the next time before you look after your students, look after yourself.