 So, welcome to the Dr. Gundry podcast. Ever wonder what it would be like to get in the head of LA Lakers Pro Kobe Bryant, the celebrated boxer and activist Muhammad Ali, the Oscar-winning actor Tom Hanks, the nation's 39th president, Jimmy Carter? Well, my guest today knows. In just a moment, I'll be chatting with the New York Times bestselling author, corporate consultant, host of the Big Questions podcast, Cal Fussman. As a long-time author of the famous Esquire column, What I Learned, Cal has interviewed some of the most famous and infamous influential legendary people on the planet, actually including me, connecting with them on an intimate level and sharing their wisdom and insights with his readers. Cal began his career as a sports writer, and he says he knows how to ask the right questions, a skill that served him not just professionally, but personally too. Today we'll discuss Cal's unique journey, what he's learned from some of his interview subjects, and how asking the right questions can help you change your life for the better. Cal and I will also discuss his weight loss journey, insights on longevity, and how asking the right questions can benefit your health too. So Cal, thanks for joining us. Oh, I'm so happy to be here and see you in that hat. You know, I just had to get the hat on for you, because you're a hat guy, and here's to you. And to you. So you've had the opportunity to speak with some of the biggest names in sports, science, politics, business, and entertainment. Tell me a little bit of how you got to that point. Okay. I can actually trace it back to a single day. You probably remember it. November 23rd, 1963. I'm in second grade, middle of the class. Ms. Jaffe walks out the room, comes back in, and looking like a different person. Her face was blanched. We're in the same clothes, but completely different. Starts speaking in a tone so calm it was scary, and she tells us that President Kennedy has been shot. You probably remember where you were in that moment. Yeah. I was in fifth grade. Here we go. In Milwaukee, Wisconsin. And you were in class when it happened? Yeah. So many of us. And so we're all at home, and we find out that President has been assassinated. Lyndon B. Johnson, vice president, has taken the oath of office. And that night, my parents realized it was the first time I had ever confronted death. And they were nervous that I wouldn't sleep well. So they called me over to the kitchen table, and they said, Cal, we just want you to know this has happened before in our country's history. If we've gotten through it, we'll get through it this time. And for you, you're going to wake up tomorrow morning and you're going to have breakfast just like you did today. You'll go out and play. It'll be just like last week. So just be reassured you can go to sleep and everything's going to be all right. And they go to tell my little brother. And I'm sitting at the kitchen table and like I was so young that I had a fascination with these presidents in their middle initials, you know, Lyndon B. Johnson, John F. Kennedy. So in my mind, I'm thinking, if you had a middle initial, you were destined to be the president because that's the only people that I ever heard of with middle initials. So I'm thinking this Lyndon B. Johnson, he probably knew he was going to be president. He probably wanted to be the president. Is he happy that he's president? Is he sad? Because it's the only reason these presidents could see assassination. Maybe he's scared that they're going to try and kill him too. And I can't wrap my head around this. So I picked up a piece of paper, pencil, and I just started writing, Dear President Johnson, how does it feel? Are you happy? Are you sad? Are you scared? I wished him well. Fold it up. I had just learned how to address an envelope, put a stamp on it and didn't tell anybody. But the next day when I went out, threw it in a mailbox. Over time, forgot about it until six months later, my mom comes running up the apartment steps, holding an envelope in her right hand from the White House, from the president to me. And it was amazing because everybody from the apartment came up. They wanted to hold the letter from the president. The principal to school wanted to see the letter to the president. And the thing about that, I'll never forget, it was not written to a second grader. It was written with great reverence. And I knew this because the second sentence began, an answer to your query. And I didn't know what a query was. So the commotion that came about because of this letter taught me that a question could get you to the most powerful person on earth. And it's been a guiding principle for me ever since. So you were a big deal at age seven? I mean, I was the shortest kid in my class, but a very big deal after November 23rd, 1963. So, I mean, did that moment say, OK, this is how I'm going to approach people? This is how I'm going to approach life? I mean, did you become, say, I'm going to ask questions? Well, three, about a little less than three months later, February of 64, Muhammad Ali won the heavyweight championship. He was Cassius Clay when he won the title. I remember that. And then like a day or two later, he changed his name to Muhammad Ali. And I remember asking my father, why did he change his name? And it was a very difficult concept to explain to a seven year old. But it made me realize that there were so many questions that I had that I needed answers to. And it just sprung me on the journey. So I knew back then that one day I was going to write a magazine story about Muhammad Ali. From the time I was a kid, it was my dream. And eventually I was able to do that. So speaking of him, what's the most standout interview you've ever had that was particularly inspiring? Well, that was would have to be the most inspiring one for me because I got to spend a week with him. Wow. And it's it's a 12 minute story. So I don't know that you want me to do the whole thing now. But the what happened is this is when he had Parkinson's disease. And his voice was down even below a whisper at that point. And so here it's my job to get information out of him and he can barely speak. And on the last day where I was very nervous because we had gone through so much and I'd seen him do magic tricks for people and need a wheelchair to cover long distance. It was very hard to figure out. Now maybe as a doctor you would look at it and say, Well, that's the case in Parkinson's disease. He's going to be tired. He took some medication at one point. And it turned his tongue orange. And he fell asleep on the couch with his leg jangling into mine. And I just sat there wondering how am I going to explain all this in a magazine story. And so on the last day, his wife, Lonnie said, You know, Mohammed, you never work out anymore. Why don't you take Cal over to the gym? Do a little exercise. And so he takes me into the gym. And it's like a museum. It's not a gym because like a boxing ring in the center looks like nobody set foot in it. There are there's exercise equipment looks like it's right out of the box is no smell of sweat. There are mirrors around the gym. And photos of I can't Ali's iconic fights above the mirrors. And just to condense the story for the sake of the podcast, while I'm looking at those photos, those fights are like the thrill of my childhood. I realized that I need to find out what is still in Ali's well, because always he would get in difficult situations against Joe Frazier or George Forman, and he'd reach into this well and pull out whatever was there to rise to the occasion. And I realized I needed to ask that question now, what is still in the well? And I looked over and I saw a rack of boxing gloves. And I said to myself, should I? Should I take the risk here? Should I try? And I pulled four gloves off the rack. And I put two on his hands and two on mine. And we're looking at each other. I didn't go at him. But I had done some boxing and actually trained in the style of his arch rival Joe Frazier. So I got in his stance. I could even sound like Joe Frazier. And I went at a big heavy bag just like Joe Frazier would have. And I just started wailing into it with this left hook. And Ali knew exactly what was going on. And his eyebrows arched like a sleeping lion awakened by an old familiar scent. And he started to go to the bag and he started throwing punch. I said, you think that's going to keep me off? I went back to the bag. I'm throwing that left hook. He goes back to the bag on and on this goes until finally I throw everything I own into this bag. And his eyes tell me, Oh, so that's your question. And he waves me to the corner of the gym. And then I saw something I never thought I'd ever see again. Muhammad Ali started to dance around this bag and he's looking at himself in the mirror. And his chest comes up. And his head comes up. And then he stops pivots and he throws like 50 shots faster than my eyes could take them in. And I was stunned. And it's a longer story. But the point is that in that moment, I was able to give him something that he had given me from my childhood, I was able to help lift him to a higher place. And the story goes on. But the ultimate point here is we all have heroes. Many of us get to meet the hero and become disappointed. But I got to meet my hero in real life. And he rose above where I was as a child seeing him. And he just took it to a higher place. So that's why it was such an important day for me. Wow. So do you have to box to get things out of other people? I think that's the only one. So that's that's fantastic. Yeah, there's a line on a song. I listen to it says we still show up for the singer who who can't sing. And but he he there it was he was still there and you got him to reach deep and that that was the point that he he went as deep as he could go. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so you've got lots of people that you've interviewed super successful people that you speak with. What are the common denominators? Are there common denominators of all these people? I believe there are there are. I believe number one, they all aspire to something great. They go out generally and achieve it and then get knocked down. And they they rise and go back higher than they were before. Classic case Steve Jobs created Apple then got thrown out of the company. And you know what? This actually revolves. There's a lesson in storytelling here. Because he released a computer named after his daughter, Lisa, very early on. And with a nine, I think it was a eight or nine page supplement in New York Times filled with geek talk, because everybody was so proud of all the eccentricities and mechanical eccentricities in this computer. And it bombed. He was pushed out of Apple. He went to Pixar. And he learned the power of a story. And when he came back, he was behind that whole Apple campaign, two words, think different. And that made all the difference. And he was able to take Apple much higher than it had ever been. So that's kind of a classic case of somebody who does something great. But they do go down. And the greatest part of the journey is where they take it from that point. You know, you brought up storytelling. Is that another key feature of most successful people, the ability to to tell a story? Well, I think it was Plato who said those who tell stories rule society. And Steve Jobs said that the most important person in the room is the storyteller. And most recently, there's a book out called 21 Lessons for the 21st century, written by Yuval Noah Harari. It starts with this sentence. Humans think in stories rather than in facts, numbers or equations, and the simpler the story, the better. And I think those three examples kind of sum it up. And you could probably even look without getting political, look at the last presidential election. Donald Trump was able to create simple stories, whether it was lion's head, low energy jab, crooked Hillary, and nobody came at him with a story to beat his. And now he's a president. So there's extreme power in story. Yeah, I totally totally agree with that. Look, your books, your books are a testament to that. Well, yeah, you know, it's interesting, even as a heart surgeon, I was told that my ability, my ability was to take a complex subject in heart surgery or a complex operation and make it simple. And there you go. And when people read my books, I think the feedback I get is I'm sitting there telling them a story. I'm sitting there chatting with them. It's as if I'm in the room with them. And to be a master at that and to make us feel like he's talking to me. He's telling me, Cal, better watch those tomatoes. I got to say, I love your philosophy. I love your work. But the tomatoes, man, I can't, I can't resist. I, the tomatoes love me. I love the tomatoes. And I know what you're saying. They get me every time, Doc. It breaks your heart. I know. I was talking to a reporter from Canada this morning, for a newspaper. And tomatoes came up. And she said, Well, everybody knows that you can't eat the peels and seeds on tomatoes. And I said, I'm glad you said that. I said, How does everybody know? And she said, Well, I was taught in Canada that they're too bitter. And bitter is a warning from the plant not to eat them. And I said, Man, can I take you on the road with me? This is fantastic. And you know, and I heard, after you told me about this, from somebody who was Italian that in her family history, they always knew to take off the skins and just remove the seeds. So you're definitely right. I'm not arguing with you. But I know, I'm a sucker for tomatoes. You've interviewed a lot of super athletes. Do they have the same qualities or are there different qualities that make them super athletes? I think they share a quality of excellence that you exhibited in the operating room when you were doing heart surgery on an infant. When I was interviewing Kobe Bryant, he brought up an interesting analogy, because he was asking me how I prepare for an interview. And I was explaining, I have this jukebox method, where I basically turn my head into an old fashioned musical jukebox, except I'm not playing records, I have questions up there. So I do all my research. And then I sit down and maybe I write out 200 questions on a pad. And then I walk around with my pad. And I inhale the questions, don't memorize them. I'm just reading them over thinking about them. It's almost like osmosis. I'm taking them in. And then, right before the interview, I rip up the questions. So that when I walk in, I just am completely relaxed, but the questions are here. And that forces me to listen really carefully, because when the subject is saying something, they're pressing the buttons on my jukebox, and the question is coming out. Or maybe something I have to improvise because the interview might have gone in an unexpected way. But to take it back to Kobe, he was saying that when he was playing for the Lakers for Phil Jackson, Phil would show up early before a team meeting. And he'd go to the board, and he'd write out everything that he wanted to get across. You look at it. And then he'd take it all away. And so when the players came in, it was just the whiteboard or the blackboard, whatever it was. And it made me what Kobe was saying is, there are habits of excellence that just go across the arc of all kinds of jobs. And you can point to one point to another, but you're going to find the same consistent habits of excellence somewhere in there. The details may be different, but the habits will be the same. No, I think that's right. I used to give a lecture to surgical residents that people like a Tiger Woods or Serena or Venus Williams or Jerry Rice aren't necessarily naturally born athletes. It's repetition, repetition, repetition. One of my mentors at the University of Michigan, Mark O'Ranger, would say, we do it the same way every day, every day the same. It's a great quote. And, you know, practice makes perfect because eventually, like you and your jukebox, you no longer have to think it flows. People I could tell who is going to be a great heart surgeon, because the great heart surgeons don't think during the operation, it just flows. And so you could just watch for 15 seconds and no, there it is. Yeah, there it is. Oh, no, you know, this this guy's thinking, you know, he, it'll, it'll never work. And I've always actually been right about that. I used to watch the great Denton Cooley. Denton Cooley, people would say was a very slow surgeons and Denton Cooley was one of the greatest heart surgeons of all time. And I got to know him. Thank goodness. But Denton Cooley looked like he was moving slowly, but there was not a wasted effort in any of his movements. There was never a pause. And so you would, you would watch this and you'd think, man, this is such a slow thing. And you'd look up and 30 minutes were gone, gone, and he was done with the operation that would have taken three hours for a normal human being. And you never got the sense that he was actually moving quickly. You know, it's kind of like Jerry Rice. Right. Yeah, they're, they're moving faster, even though it may not seem like it. Yeah, there's no, you know, there's no thinking, no wasted move. Well, did you ever get to see Michael DeBakey do the surgery? Was it different from Denton Cooley? Yeah, they were actually quite different. And so here's, this is a case of two excellent surgeons. What's the difference? And how does it play out? So they both passed away. And I actually got to know both of them. In fact, I had been, I was a visiting lecturer at both places. And I'll tell you a funny story. Now, as you know, they finally made up at the very end of their life, right? And I was speaking at Dr. DeBakey's hospital across the street from Cooley's. And I called Dr. Cooley. I said, Dr. Cooley, you know, I'm going to be speaking, you know, next door, you want to come over. And he said, well, Steve, you know, I'd love to, but geez, you know, I can't. He says, I just wish that old man would die. So. Oh, yeah. I mean, you just say that all the time. He says, if that old man would die, then I could die. But, you know, Dr. Bakey was was really kind of the Joe Frazier to Denton Cooley's Muhammad Ali. And I really mean that sincerely in both cases. Dr. DeBakey was was a puncher. He would be in the gut. He would just give me a great story. One of his young trainees who eventually went over to join Dr. Cooley was Bud Frazier. Bud's been in the news recently. But anyhow, Bud was on a plane with Dr. DeBakey coming back from overseas, and they landed at about four o'clock in the morning in Houston. And Dr. Bakey said, Bud's exhausted. He's going to go home. Dr. Bakey says, well, Bud, you know, it's four o'clock. We can get over there and make some rounds. And Dr. Bakey says, don't you want to go to bed? He's are you kidding? It's time to start work. Let's go. And Bud says, yeah, you know, and this he was in his 90s at this point. And he's like, geez, I wish he would die. Wow, that's an amazing analogy to see those guys as Ali and Frazier and to know why there must have been an intense rivalry between that you could understand why they would feel that way. Yeah. No, I, you know, I really, you know, I didn't know them well, but I knew them a lot because I had become a famous heart surgeon. And I was actually one of the few heart surgeons that wasn't trained by them that were in both of their societies. I was in the DeBakey Society and the Cooley Society. Were you allowed to do that in good standing? Oh, yeah. You weren't seen as a trader. No, I was invited by both of them. So, but I'll tell you one more DeBakey story. Please, as many as I can get. So when DeBakey, when you were a resident for DeBakey, you actually lived in the hospital and you had a room and your family got to visit for two hours a week. And that went on for two years. And now why would anybody, you know, do do that? Well, because, you know, you were trained by Dr. DeBakey. But that's, again, that's the punch fighter in your face. I'm going to break you down style of Dr. DeBakey. I mean, they're both brilliant surgeons, brilliant men. I'm delighted. I have known both of them. Just like both, you know, Frazier and Ali, we're great fighters, but totally different styles. Yeah, it's amazing when you think about excellence and how it can play out in these different ways. And yet it's, it gets to the same place. Exactly. More than one way is to skin a cat. OK, so what piece of wisdom after meeting and talking to all these people, have you picked up that's affected your life? For me, it's being prepared to improvise because every time I would go into an interview and I've spoken with hundreds of people who have shaped the world over the last 50 years, including you. And I always have to go in, not knowing what's going to happen, but being just like you were saying about the heart surgeon, just being prepared to be fluid. Or, you know, last week on my podcast, I had the daughter of Bruce Lee and he talks about being water and how water can flow or it can crash. It goes into a teapot and it becomes the teapot and how it's just so fluid that it can fill any place that it goes. And then he caps off this little bit of an interview by saying, be water, my friend. Maybe that's what I learned. Be fluid and be able to dance and move with the situation and not get caught flat-footed. That's great advice. All right. So your brand, you interview high-profile people, you speak to companies, conferences, about the power of questions. So you say, change your questions, change your life. What does that mean? Okay. Give me an example. So I'm speaking in an event for airline executives and the president of a small airline company was in a long line of people to meet me after the speech and she was standing with her daughter and she said, Cal, I got to tell you, it's my dream to get up on the stage and give a speech in front of people. I'm too scared to do it. I can't do it. And her daughter is nodding along. And I said, well, what if you just changed your questions? For instance, can you write the speech you want to give? And she said, oh, I can write the speech. That's not the problem. And then I said, well, can you read that speech that you've just written in front of a mirror? Oh, I can do it in front of a mirror. No problem. I said, can you do that five times? Yeah, no problem. Ten times. Absolutely. Could you then, after you did it ten times in front of the mirror, go down to the kitchen and ask your daughter to sit in front of you and try and speak it out. Oh, I can do that. That's not a problem either. And I said, can you do that five or ten times? Sure. Once you've done that, can you just imagine that you're in the kitchen with your daughter when you're stepping on stage? And I got a call from her a few months later. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I just gave a speech on stage and I was asked to come back and speak. So it's it's really very simple questions that can take you a long way. But you've got to stop and ask them. You can't get what we're talking before about being flat footed and just saying, I can't do this. You have to be loose enough to throw out the question and try on an answer. So is there a trick for knowing what are the right questions to ask to benefit somebody? Well, you can't go wrong with why. A parent cannot go wrong with how, because many times kid will do something crazy. And the parents like, why did you do that? But if you stop and ask a child, how did that happen? It's a very different conversation. And you can actually learn a lot about the child and the child can learn about him or herself through the answer that comes out. So very simple questions like why and how they're open. They are they don't have an agenda. They're not trying to hurt anybody. Just trying to understand. So those are two words that I love. Okay, so how this is a health program. How can you write as the right questions to benefit your health? I think the first thing is asking yourself, what books to read? Who should I be watching on a YouTube video and sitting down and just taking it all in? You know, I think that's I think that's a really good place to start. A lot of my patients ask me why why their doctors don't know some of these things. And the doctors can't see what appears to be quite obvious, you know, now that a patient has gotten great health or a disease has gone away. And I always say you can't see unless your eyes are open. Wow, it doesn't get any simpler than that. Like you're talking about telling a story, that one sentence basically says it all. One of my blessings, I think from my parents, was always question, always, always have your eyes open and don't believe, you know, dogma. Like Patton said, if everybody's thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. Well, it really comes down to curiosity. Yeah, that's exactly right. If you that's really the answer to the question, if you can be curious to ask yourself, why am I feeling this way? Yeah. Why am I eating this way? I mean, that isn't that like the first step, like why am why am I eating this Twinkie? No, but it's in the more you ask yourself, why the more you're going to find out about yourself. And then you can start going to people to find out, you know, what should I be eating? Yeah. Well, you've recently lost quite a bit of weight. Yeah, I did. So how did you do it? I did it through diet and through Spartan obstacle races. So these races go, I did a trifecta the sprint is like three to five miles. The super is eight to 10 and the beast is 14 to 17. With I think it's 36 obstacles, you got to go over eight foot walls and climb ropes and go through mud. And it was a delight and absolute craziness. But I think and tell me if tell me if I'm wrong here, is it easier to get yourself healthy when you try something completely different from what you've been thinking? And it puts you out in a strange place. And you're challenging yourself as opposed to trying something that has you've tried before you've gone on a diet and maybe you lost some pounds. But then you put him back on to just go to someplace completely new and challenge yourself. I mean, it seems like everybody who showed up in your office when you're a heart surgeon, they were in that place where they needed to go someplace deeply new. Is it easier to make these changes when you put yourself completely out there? Well, I think some people, you know, if they're if they're having a health crisis, almost like an addict has to hit rock bottom to make a change. And a lot of times a health crisis is what makes people change. But so many people, I think I have several pictures and statues of Yoda in my exam room. And you know, try not do or do not there is no try. And when people say, well, I'm going to try this. And I said, No, I don't want you to try this. Because when you tell me you're going to try, you give yourself permission to fail. That's basically what you do. You're not to do it. You have to do it. You're not going to try to do this Spartan race, because you just get to the first obstacle and say, Yeah, that's too high. Okay, I'm going to try something else. Right. Yeah, you're right. That's exactly right. Okay. We're getting running out of time. So I've been asking people because of the longevity paradox, what's the one thing listeners can do to live a longer, healthier life coming from Cal. Okay, let me see if you agree with this. I would say to reduce stress. I'm thinking now of stressful, incredibly stressful moments raising teenagers. And you know what? They're graduating from college. They came out fine. Did I did my stress help this situation? Probably not. Probably not. And I my sense is, obviously, you got to eat right. Great to exercise. But if you could just learn to look at something that would normally stress you out and smile, my feeling is I got no scientific proof, not a researcher, but my feeling is it will take you a long, a long way. I have this sneaking suspicion that I'm going to live to 93. I feel like not a bad run. I'm 62 now. And I'm starting my third act. And so that gives me another full act. And at that point, 93. Now, you know what? I'll get to 92 and I'll say give me a few more. Yeah. Oh, well, you know, there's a book. Why did I have those tomatoes? If you stop then I can guarantee you'll get to 93. Okay. So I read a book and I don't remember the author. So the book is I'm going to live to 120. And it was written in his 60s. And he basically said, okay, I have decided to live to 120. And now how am I going to do that? What am I going to do in these next 60 years? How am I going to act during these next 60 years? And what will make me arrive at 120? What a great idea. And I think it's a great idea. I really do. It's like, and you know, the whole idea of elders, we've lost the concept of elders in our society, elders as a font of wisdom to, you know, they've been there and we haven't. And they have the stories. They've got the stories. That's exactly right. Coming full circle. It's actually about stories. It really is. Okay. What's next for you? I hear you got Miami new projects. Stories, stories. I just I've gone through this transformation that and that's why I needed to talk to you because it feels a little like what you went through in a very different way. But I was a writer for magazines for many years. I've interviewed all these very famous people. And then much like you, my life was changed at summit where I got up to give a speech. I thought only 17 people would show up. It was a summit at seas on a big was there. We might have been on the same ship. That's wild. I was asked by Elliot Bisnell to go up and give a speech. And I thought, Oh, well, you know, a couple of days in Miami and the Bahamas. It'll be nice. I had no idea that they would market the speech as decoding the art of the interview with Mikhail Gorbachev, Muhammad Ali, Donald Trump. So everybody came in expecting Donald and Gorbachev to be there. And when I showed up, the room was completely packed. There were people sitting in the aisles, their legs folded into the back wall. And there was a line out the doors like a nightclub. You couldn't get in. And I got up to speak. I'd never spoken before. And at the end, I got a standing ovation. Wow. And my life changed on that day. I started to use my voice to communicate as opposed to my fingertips. And this took me to companies to speak. And then when I spoke at these companies, they started asking me to help tell their stories. And so this is where I'm going now. And it really applies to everything you've built here. Because if I can go into a company and tell their story, now keep in mind. And I read this on the internet so I can't guarantee the accuracy. But it seems right to me. If you look at all the content that's been created from the dawn of humanity to now, 90% of it has come in the last two years. There's just this overwhelming amount of information swirling around like a tornado. And if you can't tell your story, how are you going to get through it? If you're company and you can't tell that story, it's like you don't exist. And I know how to do this. So I'm now going out to companies to help them tell their stories. And very much like you went from working in a hospital with maybe a very small staff and growing your company and your brand into a place where you've got 600 people working. If I can execute this storytelling, these companies can grow. People are going to get jobs and kids will go to college. And so it puts me in a place to do exponential good. I never thought that I would be on this journey. Maybe the way you never thought you'd end up in this chair and this hat, but you're here. And so is organ. So is Laney. And so is Katie and everybody else. And that's what I want to do now. I want to help to build things. I don't know where this is going, but your story has showed me Cal go on that path. You believe it and follow it. Do it. Don't try it. Do it. That's what I take from both of our conversations. Ah, young Cal do it. Can all use a little Yoda. There you go. All right, as you know, we finish with an audience question. This question comes from an Instagram user. Is there really any difference between Spanish Greek or Italian extra virgin olive oil when using on salads? Quite frankly, the terms extra virgin extra refers to the acidity in it. So no, there's really not a difference. There's lots of difference in flavors between them. Also first cold pressed by mechanical means you should look for. It just means the process. It wasn't smashed smithereens. Now, unfortunately, tons of olive oil that says made in Italy comes from other places. So just because it says made in Italy doesn't mean it came from Italy. Italy this year, this past year has had another terrible season in olives. So you're not going to see a lot of genuine olive oil. So if it says that, be careful. All right, Cal, it's been great to have you on the podcast. It's great to see you. How do our listeners and viewers find you? Cal Fussman dot com. And that's the website. C a l f u s s m a n dot com. And my podcast is called big questions with Cal Fussman. And one of the two will get you to me. And do you have big answers on the big questions? Usually I'm asking the questions and other people are coming up with the answers. But you know what, maybe now is the time my third act that I have to come up with the answers. All right, we're going to leave you with that. I think it's a great ending. So that's it for the Dr. Gundry podcast, and we'll see you next week because as you know, I'm Dr. Gundry, and I'm always looking out for you. Exciting news, my friends, my new book, the longevity paradox is out now. Like the plant paradox, this will be a game changer in helping you live a long, vital life. So pick up your copy now at your local bookstore, Barnes and Noble or Amazon or my audio book, which I actually recorded this time. And make sure you tell your friends and family about it.