 So that was the Falklands and two years before that we had the Iranian Embassy and the Iranian Embassy was, I was on the top floor going in from the roof but it's all part of being the team you know but I had the job of lowering the explosive above the stairwell, you know the big glass dome above the stairwell and that was basically the distraction explosion. So if anybody watches the Iranian Embassy, little BBC clip on YouTube, there's a big explosion and there's some journalist going, that was a bomb, that was a bomb and then you then see the lads climbing out, you know, the four lads of the 30,000 that climb out onto the front balcony that everybody's seen. It's made up that you've joined me Bob. For our friends at home, Bob has had such a fascinating career, I'm always talking about you get one life, get out there and smash it because there's no, you don't get another go at it right. The gentleman I'm talking to today, former Sergeant Major in the Special Air Service just to name one of Bob's previous achievements, I've got Bob's website here so excuse me if I'm looking across to it but it even just the look of his website is just fascinating in itself. Before we go any further, please folks could you subscribe and if you'd even give the video a like that would be great because I'm inundated with males to say this is everybody's favourite podcast and it should be because we get guests like this and we tell the truth which is not something you're going to see the celebrities doing. But when you look at the figures for the podcast you can see all these people writing and saying great, aren't subscribed so that's really, really stifling us friends from growing bigger and then being able to have more to invest and get a better quality of everything so please like and subscribe. Bob sorry about all that spiel but that's the nature of YouTube I'm afraid. Have you ever thought of having a YouTube channel or do you have one? Yeah if I was a young lad like you I'd probably think about it but you know I'm very long in the tooth now and it takes me all my time just keeping up with you know writing an email or sitting on Facebook chatting to my mates and stuff you know. And you know I think there's a lot of people younger than me, more in date than me, more active than me that are doing a great job out there keeping people informed and interested and I'll leave it to them, I'll sit back and enjoy it all. Bob the thing I really appreciate about being able to meet somebody like yourself and to host you on the podcast is you're showing the public that there's a completely different persona to the British forces particularly I'm just going to say special forces or elite forces then the public probably perceive everybody I speak to are just thoroughly humble, thoughtful, kind, nice, nice, nice people and that was when we had you I got a phone call friends from New York the other day and I thought who's calling me from New York? I wondered if it was Andy Ruffle the BMX legend and learn behold it was Bob and we just had the most amazing chat in which I was able to ask him all my sort of questions particularly around the Bravo 2-0 patrol because for many of you know Bob Consiglio left the Royal Marines to join the SAS and then was subsequently the first person to be killed in the first Gulf War so we've all got obviously a vested interest there and yes Bobby I just want to thank you it was a great chat and here you are. That's my pleasure mate, thank you. I live on the edge of the Bronx just outside New York City and since about six o'clock this morning and it's just gone eight a.m now we're five hours behind UK for those that don't know I've got two helicopters circling right above my house now I don't know if it's linked into this podcast or if they're actually observing somebody else over in the Bronx I'm hoping it's the latter but if any you know if you do pick up a droning noise that's what it is, I apologize. I have to say you look the furthest place from the Bronx that I'd ever imagined. In fact I've just been showing my little boy coming to America, the Eddie Murphy film was it like 30 years old now or something it's quite old it was 20 years 25 years old and they're in Queens and yet one of the one of the characters does the apartment up from this rat infested cockroach infested slum to this luxury pad and it's reminding me of. Yeah people get the impression I think from films that the Bronx is this hard arse side of town well it does have that but there's multimillion dollar apartments and houses in the Bronx too and it also has a coastline and there's a little spit of land goes out called City Island which is part of the Bronx and it's stunning you know they so it's a big area there's the beautiful side and the not so beautiful side and you certainly there are times where you speed through in your vehicle and you wouldn't get out you know I think with COVID and the situation and the state of the economy because of the laws that we all have to adhere to because of COVID there's a lot of people on their arse right now and they're all sitting in places like the Bronx so you know there are problems there's more shootings more knifings more abductions so you do have to be careful that you know it's it's bad times at the moment and of course everybody's wishing for things to pick up you know the sun's out now it's another year we'll see where it all goes yeah but why do you think it is that that British soldiers are like much tougher than the Yanks yeah you can say that sitting in America I think I'll leave that one out you know it's funny you say that I've got a lot of friends here who are ex-military Vietnam vets and all the rest of it there's a couple of youngsters one's a firefighter now he was in Iraq in Afghanistan and we you know we'll have a coffee together or a beer and and chat and it's just like chatting to my mates you know it's like chatting to marines paris all the other cap badges we're all the same you know we all joined the military for one reason or another you know many are like myself where you know we came from a bit of a hard-nosed background and there wasn't a lot to sit around and wait for so we got out of town and we joined the military and it gave us a life and you know that that goes towards an awful lot of American lads and lasses as well even today you know they join it to get an education whether that's an education on paper or just an education of growing up in in the big bad world you know yeah so I see us as the same kindest kindest people on earth the Americans this oh wherever you go in the world the Americans stand out and you know with our trainers on them yeah tennis socks and their baseball caps and their t-shirts and and they are absolutely likable I mean there's no doubt about that there's an awful lot of things wrong with America that I can see as a non-American living here but that can be fixed and you know there's an awful lot of wrong back home as well you know and hopefully that'll get fixed too I found it very hard being a guy in his late 60s now going to see a doctor for a checkup and all the doctors trying to do is sell you big pharma because that's who he represents and you're having to go through a for-profit driven insurance company to see the doctor it's absolutely ludicrous and you know if you do have big pharma because you really need it it costs a fortune here and how come it you know the same big pharma made in America is cheaper in the UK than it is buying it in a pharmacy in America you know there's you know the the rich get richer and the rest of us just flounder you know yes and that needs sorting it really does they get rich in pocket and and poorer in spirit don't they yeah they don't they don't get it yeah and that's the way life is you know it's um you know I've wandered around with my bulldog if I'm not running I'm walking my bulldog and I've had shouts from people from across the road and the streets been pretty empty bar me and my bulldog and the person across the road shouting at me where's your mask and and I say well you know I don't wear a mask outside especially when I'm across the road from you it's in my pocket and I'll put it on if I need to why don't you lose weight to which you know the head goes down and the person continues up the road and nobody's addressing this we're all addressing social distancing wear a mask wash your hands nobody's addressing the real elephant in the room if you like which is the obesity problem and the problem that everybody's on big pharma they're therefore combined their immune system is really low and everybody's had over a year now to sort themselves out get up in the morning look yourself in the mirror and say is the problem me and maybe when you go out you won't be throwing out the problem the problem at other people and accusing them you know the issue bob is that there's about five elephants in the room but because that because everyone watches their mainstream media and they're you know that thing in the corner of the room and they get shown those five elephants all day long every single day that they've learned just to think that that's normal yeah the mainstream media won't cover the realities because it's bad for clicks you know they won't get the attendance that they seek and so especially over here you've either got left left wing media or right wing media you know if you're a republican you watch Fox News and you listen to all their crap and if you're a democrat you listen to CNN NBC and you know you get all their crap and that just keeps the country divided I find it hard living here that 350-ish million people and there's only two major political parties and you know all my friends around here my neighbours they're either on one side or they're on the other nobody's in the middle so you know I believe if let's say you had five major political parties because you know the country's big enough to swallow it all up you would have an imbalance when it comes to voting and it would be like three against two or whatever not one against one and you know that's a big problem here and I think it's kept like that for a reason you know yeah keep keep the people debated Bob I'm conscious of um your your wonderful time that you're extending us and this is all stuff that we that I talk about on my channel a lot I go once further and say all the media all the politicians are all controlled by the sociopaths so I'll not bind into any of it um I never voted never will not going to vote from own slavery in a corrupt system sorry um don't own a certain thing that you mentioned I'm not going to say the word but I don't even have one yeah um someone's got to stand up to these fuckers you know because our colleagues died for this freedom this this freedom that we've now just given away without any fight whatsoever um and I don't care about an old dog like me I could die tomorrow mate I'll I'll be more than happy right I've had I've had the perfect life but but when you got kids I think in my late 60s retired I tried to keep myself fit as much as I can but I do do a lot of sitting down and reflecting I love gardening I've got a fairly big garden outside so yesterday I was cutting the grass and my mind was wandering all over the place you know my first war as a 17 year old the secret war in Dofar Oman to you know my last war which really was the first Gulf War and attending modern day wars as a civilian looking after um journalists in in war zones and I'm thinking all this out and you know after a bad beginning where I didn't get a formal education um in Dundee Scotland I ran away from home I ended up in Bristol I tried to be a footballer I failed at that and somebody suggested go down the road to the recruiting office and join the military and I thought wow that's a great idea so I just approached my 17th birthday somebody actually told me to go and join the Paras so I go down to the recruiting office and the Navy Royal Marines Air Force Army it's all in the same street and so I'm walking down the street to join the Paras and I come to the recruiting office on the right with a big paratrooper in the window coming down underneath drifting down under his canopy and I walk in and I say excuse me is this where where I come to join the Paras sit down son sign here and unbeknown to me because I didn't look up when I walked through the door it was the RAF recruiting office and I just joined the RAF regiment which actually had a parachute squadron it was a field squadron for the parachute role and that's what I ended up joining and that was the kickoff to an absolutely fantastic career and had I gone on down the street and walked into the Army careers office or the Navy one and joined the Marines I may well have been much later in life in joining the special forces if at all and I say that because at 17 after doing recruit training in my jumps course I was sent straight out to the secret war in Dofar because our unit was under man and I had to sign forms for special dispensation because I was under the age of 18 I think there was two of us actually that went out there of the same you know pre-paracourse and and that's where I saw the SAS we were we were guarding the Salala airfield which was on the coastline in Dofar which is a southern province in Oman which borders Yemen and there was a four mile in depth from the coastline to the base of the mountains plain at coastline level and then you know a thousand feet up into the mountains at nighttime from my defensive base which we called hedgehogs they were basically defensive positions built up like sanders because it was bedrock on the Salala plain bedrock and gravel you couldn't dig down so we built these defensive positions called hedgehogs out of oil drums ammunition containers sandbags and and that was our fort that's where we fought from and at night I'd see the green tracer going in the red tracer coming out the explosions in the air three and a half to four miles away up in the jibble the mountains and I'd say to my sergeant who's that up there and he's like that's an SAS patrol getting hit and getting stuck in and I'm like who are the SAS oh that's the special air service there are special forces and and from that moment on at 17 years old I never even shaved I looked like a 14 year old I was way behind in puberty you know I was just like a little kid giving an SLR and and it from that moment on and I remember it vividly today looking up in those mountains with a big grin on my face saying that's where I want to be and I remember my NCOs just slapping my head and saying you know you're still wet behind the ears you've got a lot to learn yet well I did two tours to Dofa with the RAF regiment and I was 19 on my second tour and I applied for the regiment then and I just passed my 28th birthday when I turned up in the January in the mid 1970s to do SAS selection back in those days it was about 125 to a course my course was smaller it was just under a hundred I think it was about 97 98 simply because of what the Brits were doing around the world at that time it wasn't that the units weren't willing to release their lads to go in selection it was that the lads weren't getting time to do their own personal training before attending selection so it was a smaller course by probably about 30 students and at the end of it five of us and an officer a great officer passed and I think they saw me as a blank canvas and and thought wow this lad he's keen he's very fit he's reasonably bright we can take him and mold him into one of our own you know because I can't think for the life of me any other reason why why they passed me but it was a blast and I ended up going back out to Dofa with one of the last SAS trips before the Dofa war ended in 1976 so so it was it was a great start and I got my my wish looking up in the mountains watching them in that firefight I was then stood in those mountains looking back down at the hedgehogs salala airfield salala town and the and the coastline as an SAS soldier so I got my wish and it was probably the biggest moment in my military career somebody asked me not so long ago actually what would you describe as your biggest moment and that's what it was something as simple as that but it meant the world to me yes it's funny isn't it what us I don't even know what kind of type I'm hearing this word da Vinci types a lot recently the people that sort of like just want to get out there and and you know their thinkers and they don't really fit in a box and they get a lot of stuff done in life but I won't pretend I know a lot a lot about that but it's you know I dived off the cliff in Acapulco right not from the top I'm not I'm not stupid I'm neither that that skilled or or stupid but and it was because I saw Elvis do it in one of those films they played when he died and all summer they played Elvis films and one of them was Elvis in Acapulco and he ended up being a big hero and diving off this infamous clip or this very famous clip and as an adult when I went I was backpacking around the world and I landed in Mexico spent a couple of nights in Mexico City and then I went straight out Bob to Acapulco I wanted to see this clip you know just something that most people would just not be interested in was so important to me and when I got there I said to the girl I was traveling with I said look there's the changing room for the cliff divers last clava last clava distance right so I'm going to go go and have a look right I was so excited and I went went in this changing room and there's all these these weights that they've got for warming up and very humble very humble I mean this is Mexico and it hadn't 20 years ago or 15 whenever it was it hadn't come on an awful lot and next thing I know this guy walks in with a mop oh la oh la um got talking and I said do you know any of the cliff divers and he went see you know he was you know he was a cliff diver basically and um and he and uh he said uh Vamas Nadar he said you want to go for a swim so I thought he meant because it's in like a whole there's a hotel on this cliff top I thought he meant you know let's go to the hotel swimming pool and have a dip so I'm like yeah definitely he peels his shirt off and starts heading down to the lagoon the famous lagoon and when the swell was just huge I mean there was a like a 10 foot 10 foot swell going up and down these cliffs and he just dived in well next thing I'm diving into the famous lagoon with one of the mech aquapork and Mexican cliff divers and we're swimming it we're swimming in the surf and I just swam over to the cliff when the when the waves went when the swell went up I grabbed out of a rock and then the swell sort of dropped and I clung to this rock and I started climbing up and this guy I think he was called Salvador or something he said no no no down get down get down like no no I'm going up and I climbed I climbed um I wouldn't even say I wouldn't even say it's halfway Bob but I climbed a third of the way turned and I died great stuff something small like that I'm so happy I'm just so happy I've lived my life that way yeah it doesn't take much to to make people happy you know it's uh you know that that was a moment in my career that will live with me forever you know and it's as clear today as it was on the day you know but it's funny you know I was just I was talking to somebody the other day over a brew and it's next year is 50 years to my first war as a 17 year old now if you relate that to when I was on that first war as a 17 year old 50 years before that was 1922 you know and you know that's a handful of years after T. E. Lawrence Lawrence of Arabia was wandering around the empty quarter on the back of a camel doing amazing things you know so you know a 50 year increment goes very very quickly in someone's life and you know that became really apparent when we're up in that brew the other day and I was trying to relate the story about the first war you know so yeah so any younger people watching this you know 50 years goes quickly so enjoy your life don't don't be down Bob I think a lot of people would be fascinated you joined the special air service from the RAF um yeah there was two people before me um well actually there was three people before me there was an officer who became a troop commander in base modern and there was the other two were junior NCOs there were corporals in the RAF regiment and I was a Tom I didn't have a rank just turned 20 and so I was the first Tom if you like to from the RAF regiment and then after me there's been been a good a good few cents and I think from especially from two squadron the parachute squadron it's a tiny unit and I've got a picture actually look at this I don't know if you can see that that's three of us from two squadron um out on the ground just a bit up you see it yes what an incredible picture yeah it's out there on the internet that's three of us from two squadron um in 22 SCS meeting in the Wadi in Iraq to do all all the admin and fix the vehicles and get bombed up and everything before we went back out again on the ground and uh that's a great photo because two squadron is a tiny tiny unit and to have three guys in the regiment all at the same time is quite something you know so it's a photo that I personally treasure you know I only did three years in the RAF regiment and you know almost 20 years in the SAS 23 years all together but those three years got me through selection basically you know those great young lads who were older than me um that had the better skills than me the NCOs and the officers they made sure that I was going to pass selection and that I wasn't going to come back to two squadron maybe they had a reason for that they're trying to get rid of me but um but I owe I owe all of them a debt of gratitude um because they prepared me well you know and they they um they were very realistic about what I needed to do and how I needed to behave and you know be the gray man and all the rest of it well you be the gray man at times but there are times that uh if you're too much of the gray man you're not going to pass at all because nobody knows who you are he was on selection I don't remember him so you know you have to come out of your shell at the right times you know I'm guessing you have to be quite respectful to the DS on selection you can't come across that's a great comment because being on selection is no different to being on any other course whether it be in the Royal Marines in the Paris the School of Infantry a core course you know it's there's a human nature element within that course and the interaction between the student and the instructor if one doesn't like the other something bad is going to come out of it and it's a human nature thing and you cannot take that away and I know individuals that probably didn't get through selection because they weren't going to put up with what was going on you know and it was probably the regiments loss not their loss and their unit of which the individual would go back to it was their gain because they didn't lose that individual so there's you know in reality there's human elements everywhere you know and it's not 100 crystal clear because of the human element so you know the SAS is no different to any other unit you know I keep getting this thing about you know special forces and I get little comments on my on my blog or on my Facebook the authors page Bob Shepherd author about you know you're a legend and oh I'm no legend I'm no legend you know legends have just been playing in the Six Nations rugby you know they're legends young kids want to emulate these amazing rugby players that have quite a short career today they're legends I'm not a legend none of my mates are legends we're just ex-soldiers like yourself and all the other ex-soldiers no matter the cap badge no matter the colour of the berry because we're all needed in war without one the war doesn't go ahead you know and you know there's a touch ranks at Hereford way more in numbers than there are you know men in the SAS now you take those attach ranks away the SAS is going nowhere and that's the same with the SPS with its marine navy structure around it we're going nowhere and we all need each other so I take pride in serving alongside a signals lad as much as I take pride in serving alongside you know my mate who's a trooper you know because we all need each other and that's really really important and anybody from a special forces unit that thinks otherwise it's pie in the sky the guy's not living they wouldn't in my humble experience special forces guys just not like that are they there's a very the vast majority are you know fairly fairly quiet kind of feet on the ground type people that we have to be now you imagine you know I was a troop staff sergeant of a boat troop in G squadron and I was one of the smallest guys in the troop and I'm having to keep you know some of these big gorillas in order and they're all tough characters mentally and physically some more mentally some more physically and you have to be a special person to be in a small group of men and not only command them but be one of them as well and you know we have the the the chunter where we get together over brew and decide how we're going to do things but ultimately the troop commander and myself as the troop staff sergeant you know we're the ones that say okay this is what we're doing now we've listened to everybody's comments this is what we've decided and we're going to get on with it and you know you do have to you have to have your feet on the ground to be able to do that and to do it well and to bring everybody along especially when times are tough you know you know the the Falklands war for example the SAS was given tasks that were outrageous with with nothing not even a proper map nothing you know and you know I parachuted down there as part of an eight man team to do a build-up within a war zone we eventually met up with a an old O-class submarine HMS Onnings and we dispersed onto islands around the major islands some were inhabited by Argentinians some weren't just to get our drills squared away because we were going to the mainland to take out the super aton darts that were sinking our ships now this was a knee-jerk reaction can you explain for our friends at home what what that terminology is Bob that that is that a missile or is that an aeroplane yeah it's an aeroplane that was launching the missile it's a French aeroplane and a French fighter aircraft that was launching the missiles that were sinking our ships and you know the war at the time was on a knife edge it could go either way because of the sinking of the ships there's no cavalry coming over the hill they sent ships down to resupply and one of the bigger ships that had helicopters and harriers on it to replace the ones that were lost sank because that was hit the Atlantic conveyor so the eight of us were going to leave the submarine go on the coast of Argentina and attempt to take out these aircraft now that was a huge mission a huge mission for eight guys and we were supplemented by two fantastic sbs coxons both who i know well their mates and uh because they had to return the boats back to the submarine because had we hid them and they were found we were compromised and had we slashed them and sunk them they'd been washed ashore so they had to be returned to the submarine so it was a joint operation and to cut a long story short on our way in having done all this build-up training and we did some operations with de-sportern as part of the war on the way in the Argentinians and the Falkland surrender so they obviously heard we were coming and and of course it was all on the say so of Thatcher Thatcher gave the word obviously going on the people around her that the operation should go ahead and then when the Argentinian surrender she gave the word that that submarine's got to pull straight back again and that was the end of the war basically so it was a little bit like you know we're all in the aircraft ready to parachute and then the wings on the ground pick up and the parachute the parachutons off well all that build-up of adrenaline is still in you so there we are in the submarine the submariners are all cheering and hugging each other because the war's over and we're all gutted because we didn't get our part to play on the mainland well years later i find out that the Argentinians had 3000 marines around the area of the Superet on Dards all the way out to the coastline so how far the eight of us would have got nobody knows but i would like to have had the chance to have tried i must admit you know and and what i will say is you know everybody's read about the more recent Bravo 2-0 and you know one of the more infamous operations that's out there in the public domain but the eight of us were absolutely up for that operation that was headed up by a great troop sergeant and and we all worked as one and we couldn't wait to get off that submarine get in the small boats with the SPS lads get on the ground and do it and and and it was with limited kit because that's what we're about we don't say well we haven't got this we haven't got that we can't do it we just get what we've got and we run with it and we make it work because that's our job and that's what's in our heads you know and i think you know people call us special forces we're not special we're called the special air service and the special boat service when i joined the special air service it was the special boat section then it became the special boat squadron and then it became the special boat service all the same guys great guys just different names you know makes doesn't make any odds it's all the same guys none of them are special none of us were special and being a boat troop guy i worked a lot with the SPS we're all the same we wear a different cap badge we've got the same role the same job we get on with it we're two tiny units most operationally we're normally combined anyway because there's not enough of us to go around one lot is from the navy slash war marines the other lots from the army that's back in my day it's all different as you know now because it's a combined selection which in my view should have happened decades ago i spent a year down at pole and i was a staff sergeant at the time and i had an absolute ball the SPS lads welcomed me with open arms and and one of the things i tried to do but failed was bring the two units together and suggest a combined selection because what was going on was it was two completely different types of selection so there was a mindset between the two that was slightly different and an SPS lad if he was rank conscious could pass the SPS selection go into the SPS state two years go back into the marine system get his lance corporal get his corporal get his sergeant and then go back into the SPS and all the SPS lads that remain there might be corporals and he's jumped them and come back in in the SPS the time this is when i was in the time you decide that you want to leave the S the SES you lose all your rank and if you come back you do selection again and you start again at trooper and i believe that that was right for both units that was the way to be a it makes people think twice about leaving and be we're all on the same page you know so so that was going on and a quick story about my time down in the SPS great rivalry of course i'm the minimum number one i'm on my own so i'm having to take all this crap from the SPS lads every morning you guys do fizz in the morning before breakfast that killed me i cannot do fizz before breakfast that's not an army thing we need a big fat english breakfast in us before we do anything so i'm getting up in the morning meeting up with my SPS buddies and getting the pants run off me and then back again or we're going swimming or we're doing some you know gym work or or whatever it is but you know everybody gets their chance so one morning it was my turn and i you know i kept it simple we went for a like a six mile run we came back and warming up exercises to begin with warming down exercises this wasn't long after the Falklands and i had the marines the SPS lads bending down touching their toes coming up slowly coming up coming up and standing like that so i had a half circle of marines around me all with her hands up and i just turned around and walked away and then they chased me all over pool anyway it was all a laugh and a joke we had a couple of beers that night we're all giggling about it and then a couple of months later this SPS lads says oh Bob do you fancy going for a run tonight after work i'm like yeah that'd be great mate and it was a really good runner and so he meets me outside the sergeant's mess which is where i was staying and we go running out of you know hamworthy and out into the cuds and and i'm looking at my watch and and we're doing about seven minute miling pace up and down and i'm just hanging on to him and then we turn up at this house and he stops at the gate and i'm like what are you doing mate and we're 10 miles away and he goes uh i live here see you so that was paid back for my stretching exercises so fantastic stuff you know and i had an absolute ball down there i learned so much and i actually came back and i had a vision that there shouldn't be a there should only be a boat trip in herford to move the other troops ashore or to do light wreckies and stuff like that we shouldn't be at the extent of what or we shouldn't be trying to do what the SPS are doing because their streaks ahead that's their job that's their bread and butter their O2 their oxygen diving and for those who don't know that's diving subsurface where you're not popping bubbles up to the surface it's a rebreathing unit and there are no bubbles at all that's uh so you know you can swim in nobody from the surface can see you we shouldn't be doing that that takes a lot of effort the SPS are on the coastline if they want to spend three hours doing that they're there they can do it we live in herford we're landlocked it's like a landlock county you know it's crazy that we just don't have time to do this stuff you know and so we're forever chasing the error and you know i just felt that the powers to the lads are all the same you know we had SPS lads coming up to us for anti-terrorist stuff and we were all working together we were all gelling we would go down to pole we'd do the same with them we would gel but it was a hierarchy those in charge of the navy and the role marines those in charge of the army and HQ special forces they're the ones that are trying to to write their own history you know the lads just want to get on with their job they're all the same i don't give a damn if we combined you know we all wore a green berry with a wing dagger or you know or you know whatever it doesn't matter we're all the same we've all got a job to do we need to do it to the best of our ability and we're not doing that when the headsheds are having a pissing match against each other and this came out in the Falklands war you know you had the head of the navy wanting to do this because he's writing his legacy the head of the army doing the same thing the head of the role marines doing the same thing oh we need these islands taken out i want to use the SPS but they're on a mission the SES are ready or the other way around you know you know just just get it together fellas we're all the same machine we're fighting the argentinians why are we fighting each other so you know this is the kind of stuff that goes up that goes on the echelons above your payran you know you don't know about it at the time you find out about it later when you start asking questions why are we doing this you know this is just ludicrous there's a better way well there's not a better way because it's not your guy in charge it's somebody else's guy at this moment in time and it's childishness and senior officers need to be bigger than that and the sad thing is they have blood on their hands you know british blood not argentinian blood british blood and that happened time and time again it happened in the first gulf war i worked with the media as a security advisor embedded with us troops i watched it happen with them i watched it with british troops in helmand where they were sent down there to win the hearts and minds of the people and just very quickly the lies that goes on you know we're in afghanistan to keep the streets of britain safe say the politicians and the generals and they're still saying that 20 years later when we lost 20 years ago and we lost 20 years ago because we went in on the back of american foreign policy and we took one side of a 30 year simmering civil war which sometimes you know was an all out bloody civil war and then it would go quiet again and it would simmer so we took one side of that civil war we took the northern tribes side and then in 2005 the generals get together under the american general and the american general says i would like you british to go down to helmand so in 2006 they go down to helmand and they try to win the hearts and minds of the people who are on the other side of the civil war the southern tribes the pashtun people an absolute no-brainer and i i went down there as part of a small media team we drove from cabel and we drove all the way down to southern helmand to meet with the taliban on the banks of the river and they said to us if anybody comes here in a foreign uniform there will be blood and boy were they right and i came back and i met a senior officer who i knew from my army days in hq in cabel and i was virtually thrown out for telling the truth and you know it's all water under the bridge now but this is the kind of stuff that goes on people trying to write their own legacies you know one general handing over to the next handing over to the next handing over to the next lying lying lying when they've got their chessboard but they can't have all the pieces on that chessboard because you've got fantastic infantry troops from new zealand who politically are not allowed to be deployed to the hard areas so they're up in bamyan lording it when they're needed down in kandahar and helmand and paktika paktia on the the pakistan border and other provinces so you know the the generals aren't loaded fully you know it's all politics and modern day generals i've found in the last 20 years of the wars are wearing their political hat instead of wearing their military hat and they need to take that political hat off and put that military hat back on and support their men and women under them you know so you know i've seen an awful lot out of the military and it reminded me of the stuff that i saw in the military lions led by donkeys you know it's it hasn't changed since the 1800s you know but but we'll do our job and you know sitting here as a 66 year old it doesn't matter whether i was an infantry man or i was in the sas or otherwise we have the same mindset and war and that's to look after each other to our left and right to hell with the politics we can't get involved in that if we got involved in that we'd probably take our uniform off and walk away and so would the enemy if they knew their politics you know but we don't do that we get on with it and you know if i had my life you know knowing what i know today as an older person if i had my life over again i would do exactly the same again the military gave me a fantastic life and it gave me it gave me something i didn't have when i ran away from home it gave me love it gave me a family i never had that till i joined the military you know the love of a human being the the cohesion of a family you know and just like you i'm sure i'm still in touch with mates that i serve where there's a 17 year old on facebook and all the rest of it you know it's fantastic there's nothing like it well mine they all still owe me money bob say again sorry i'm in touch with mine because they all still owe me money yeah there you go well i owe them money that's why they're in touch with me i'm open to get my all those checkbooks back one day no it's a fantastic life i you know it gets politicised there are things wrong there's no doubt about it a lot of stuff that is wrong and has been wrong over the decades does mainly lie at the top end and not the bottom end and i don't think that'll ever change not when certainly in the british system where senior officers get more and more letters after their name more and more medals nighthoods whether they're successful or whether they're dismal failures you know and if you look at the wars of the last 20 years and you look at the letters after the general's names today how on earth have they got those letters they're dismal failures you know the lads and the lassies aren't failures all they're doing is going on the ground and fighting through the best of their ability and when you look at the british troops down in helmand there isn't another nation that could have fought as well as those british troops but they were all pardon the expression fucked by their own leadership you know and that is appalling yeah you know when we learn lessons from history and the officer core at officer school are put in you know this is put into them you know they read history they're you know there's professors from universities come and give them military history lectures yet it all goes in one ear and out the other for the chase of you know medals and titles and everything else and trying to leave a legacy and most most of them recently have led it you know left a pretty bad legacy you know but but there you go you know that's uh that's the way it is it just has to get better in the future and i think the little people like ourselves need a voice and your podcast is a great platform for that because we can have a voice today years ago we couldn't because we didn't have social media yeah so i think we should also give a shout out but you know when you're young you're in the military you just you just do your job to be honest you don't really know a lot more but we should recognise those people that off the back of their military career then go on to do great things with respect to our freedom they use their experience they they make sense of it they understand why they did what they did and who was telling them to do it and i'm thinking of people like Mike McCarthy who we've had on the show i think three times now um just a massive warrior for justice and freedom oh that's that's all fantastic and and most certainly not so much in the uk and i don't know why but most certainly over here in the states there are an awful lot of officers that served in iraq and afghanistan who have turned their hand to politics and they're doing incredibly well and they're they most certainly have a voice and they are changing things slowly um but we need more of that back home in my view i mean i'll be coming home sometime soon i won't be living in america forever and i haven't taken on american status and i have no intention and i don't mean that in a bad way i just want to go home my home is the uk and i'm not one of these people that sit with multi passports passports of convenience i think if you take on somebody else's passport you should hand your own one in you know i mean i can't be british and american i'm british and i'll never be anything else i'm proud you know and my home is the uk and that's where i want to die you know i don't want to die in america um so i'll be going home one day yes back to bonnie scotland no doubt yeah probably closer to herford because that's where my adult children and grandchildren are around that area so you know i lived in malvern before i came over here it's a ridgeline of hills running north south about 10 miles and it's stunning you stand on that ridgeline you look east you see the cotswolds you look west you see the welsh mountains it's just absolutely stunning and there's nothing like throwing a pack on and going for a run over the malvern mills and i loved it there we came over here because my wife's american she's a journalist and she was appointed a post to to work from Manhattan and here we are so it's a great chapter in our lives i love america i love the american people there's things wrong with it as i said earlier there's things wrong in the uk too but there are people in place that are trying to fix it so that's great you know but the people are wonderful and they love a chat they love an accent you know so uh so it's fun how many times have you been asked if you're australian yeah more often than not it's either australian or those that are closer are you irish especially around here because it's all irish and italians you are slightly with the scolish accent yeah the albanians are stepping in now and the italians are getting a bit shaky because uh you know i know where i live there's five or six albanian families and the kids go to the local school so they're taking over taken over from the italians and the and the irish bob you you were a bit humble there you when you said you parachuted into folklings you parachuted into the sea in the folklings yeah i um yeah what happened was uh we jumped basically into into the sea uh to be met by hms andromeda a frigate and then we were cross-decked about three or four times and we were co-located with d squadron who had sadly along with g squadron lost a number of guys in that infamous helicopter accident of the sea king and uh and we did some operations with them then we the submarine came and met up with us and we did some landings with the sbs lads and tried to cut down on our timings of assembling the boat floating off the submarine floating back on and uh i remember we were on an island once that we were told may have argentinians and we were lying on the beach legs across each other for contact communication just waiting for the submarine to come back to us so we could get in the boats and or sorry be met by the sbs lads get in the boats and go back to the submarine and then all of a sudden i get a kick on my leg from the guy to my right who's had a kick on his leg from the guy to his right and it was the number system of enemy coming along the beach and there's eight of us lying on the beach spread out cross-legged and i remember the kicks getting into the 20s i'm like oh my goodness you know we're we're going to be ambushing a force way way larger than ourselves and then you could see the silhouettes of this army coming down the beach and you know the hairs on the back of my neck are standing up i could feel my heart thumping against the gravel on the beach and you know i was in a dry bag and and then somebody whispers off to my right and the wind was coming from the right what the fuck is that smell and then all of a sudden somebody starts laughing and it was penguins so it wasn't argentinians it was penguins and they're all waddling down the beach you know but given that you know there was a bit of a moon but it was cloudy so the moon's coming out it's going back in again there's different light conditions and all you could see was the silhouette of movement and it was argentinians first penguins second so when you jumped into the sea two things first can you just tell us what what what's it like what i mean what aircraft were you jumping from what equipment did you have and how does it feel but also you you were with robin weren't no no no the b squadron jumped in i think it was the day after the surrender and you know nobody knew how long the war was going to last so it was a matter of getting another squadron down there to take over from the squadron that was down there from the beginning and then get them out and start you know rotating people and so poor old b squadron jumped in at the end of the war well we were b squadron but we jumped in um because of this special mission to do on the mainland now we already had eight lads in a disaster of an operation in the mainland that ended up going on the run in chile and you know that's all out there books have been you know written about it and historians have mentioned it where the the helicopter that was taking the lads in to do that initial operation the helicopter was getting locked on to so it kind of sided across the border into chile landed the crew burnt the helicopter out the lads went on the run to a safe rv got picked up and and back to back to the UK so we came in as a second wave to do it from a submarine and not from a helicopter because it was deemed more covert and the submarine was down there then it hadn't been down there before so and this is the small o-class diesel submarine um hms onnings so we jumped into the sea we actually had pallets delivered off the tailgate the c 130 and we followed those pallets out the pallets didn't open they creamed in so we lost all our kick so we were beg stealing and borrowing of everybody of d squadron g squadron the sbs the role marines the navy i was walking around looking like a sailor with the um what's the you know they give you a box don't they if you're if you've been sweat you're your ship sunk and you're swimming survive a survivor's box so i was dressed like a navy lad you know yeah um for the rest of the war and i remember at the end of the war because it wasn't known if the argentinians would have a a second crack at it the eight of us stayed behind and it's the worst thing that could happen to us because a garrison was forming now it's post war you know and we were getting stopped by military police we had long hair beards well kind of beard i could grow in my 20s um dressed as a matlow with uh with an ar 15 and a magazine on it and they're like take your magazine off and like no take your magazine off you know you're in a garrison and you know we had to get our patrol commander to to go and liaise with the rsn who was in charge of the garrison and say look please mate just leave us alone you know we live in a guest house we're well away from everybody else we're doing our own buildup training and um just leave us which they did to be fair you know and we stayed there for a number of weeks it was dreadful you know and we just wanted to get back and get on with life and fit back into the squadron you know yeah but yeah so uh so that was the falklands and uh before that two years before that we had the iranian embassy and the iranian embassy was uh i was on the top floor going in from the roof i didn't see an angry char wall i could have stayed in here ever but it's all part being the team you know sometimes chicken sometimes feathers so i was spitting feathers but i had the job of lowering the explosive above the stairwell you know the big glass dome above the stairwell and that was basically the distraction explosion so if anybody watches the iranian embassy little bbc clip on youtube um there's a big explosion and then there's some uh journalists going that was a bomb that was a bomb and then you then see the lads climbing out you know the the four lads of the 30 000 that climb out onto the the front balcony that everybody's seen so i set that first explosion off well actually i put it in position i didn't set it off my buddy at the end with the clacker set it off and my big worry lowering it down because i had to lower it down about eight foot onto the the glass stairwell lowering it down um it was just it was all basic kit it was plastic explosive at the end of debt card that's all it was and i'm lowering the debt card down thinking if somebody come gets compromised at a window um and they call go go go instead of the natural standby standby go my mate in the heat of the moment just might let the clacker go and i'm blown to pieces you know and i remember i'm thinking this and at the same time out the corner of my eye i'm looking across at the block of apartments opposite us and i'm watching this old biddy and our husband making a cup of tea in the kitchen your great big georgian windows in these buildings like the iranian embassy and uh and i'm thinking i hope they're not going to burn themselves when i set this explosion off you know and i'm more more concerned about them than i am about myself you know two lovely old biddies just making a cup of tea you know in the evening and then off it all goes you know so that was my wee job and you know as i say we're all small wheels in a in a big well oiled machine but we hope it's well oiled and uh you know it uh it's all out there you know but it wasn't it wasn't the big heroic operation that it's made out to be we trained every day for that and the whole scenario went according to the training scenarios that we undertake and the anti-terrorist team had only been going about five years at that point and uh properly at at like squadron level so it was very new the kit was pretty raw and rugged there was nothing that was really classed as specialist all the you know the window frame explosives were all hot spots made by ourselves with raw explosives that the military any military would get you know it's only much later post the success of the iranian embassy that the government threw money at the regiment to say get what you need basically you know and of course most of the kit that we started getting was from the united states and at that time delta force was pretty new delta force was based on ourselves and i remember when i first joined the regiment um the the guy who who invented delta force um a great guy called uh colonel charlie beckwith had fought in vietnam and stuff and he'd actually watched the regiment in malaya during the campaign um so he came to herford and he just watched us all and go to all down went back to america formed delta force in squadrons and troops just like two to sas and uh so we we came together in a lot of of training and of course only days before the sas operation at the iranian embassy in london delta force had a dreadful scenario in iran in the desert of iran called desert one where they had a huge failure of all their acts and debts colliding in the desert with helicopters and and c 130 aircraft so they had to pull their mission so we got all the plaudits worldwide oh the sas are better than delta force look what they did yeah but you know we were playing at home you know we were in london they were in the deserts of iran about to go to tehran to release their own hostages you know so you know let's be fair here you know gosh yes it i guess it must be um must be nice to at least you i mean you were involved you it it's the most talked about operation in british military history since the second world war isn't it thing that happened the worst thing that happened is that margaret thatcher and her advisors or her advisors wanted to make an overt operation to tell the world don't come to this country or this is what's going to happen to you and the media coverage of the operation is the worst thing that ever happened to the regiment it blew it out the water everybody wanted to know about the sas after that we had media crawling all over herford you know young pretty girls in the bars trying to latch on to lads to find out information all sorts going on you know and it's the worst thing that ever happened before that you know we could walk downtown from camp in our uniform go to the bank do a bit of admin come back back to work you know after that we're having to go to work in civilian clothes you know be careful i had to send my wife out to check the car every morning joke you know that kind of stuff so so we had to be careful after that and you know not only was the the ira threat it was threat from world terrorism as well you know um but uh it was it was a chapter in in my military career it was a good chapter it was great to be able to do um but it wasn't the amazing thing that people make out it was quite a simplified operation and today the lads they do that you know they've been doing that you know three or four times a day in a 24-hour period in the middle east hitting targets you know so i'd like to think that you know this old guy is a stepping stone to the professionalism of the guys today you know just like the guys before me that you know did the whole of dofar did the radfan did Borneo did Malaya you know i learnt from them i went on to train in mine lads learnt from me then they moved on etc and i always see the sas soldier probably the sbs soldier as well saying that we're similar as a changing character every 12 to 15 years it's a different breed and i think that's a great thing i don't think that's a bad thing and that's one of the reasons why i chose to leave as a 40 year old and not become a hanger on you know get out have a whole new career enjoy it use my past skills and and just get away and i've never been back in camp from the day i left in 1994 when i cried my eyes out like a baby because that was the end of it you know i wanted to stay in but i knew i had to leave you know and and sitting back now i'm glad i did i had a whole new venture and i would probably argue i did more dangerous things as a security advisor working with the media alone than i ever did in the regiment where i've always got a buddy partner to my left or right you know i mean and making proactive calls where they drive down to meet the Taliban in hillman in 04 you know that was a huge issue that was a great story for the company that they got it got the story and it was a good coup for me it was a fantastic adventure you know and i used afghan security guys from Kabul and when we went into a different warlords area outside Kabul we'd stop we'd drop a couple of guys off we'd pay for a couple of his guys and then we move on to the next area do the same all the way down and then on the way back it was the reverse dropping other guys off picking our own guys up and back to Kabul it was a fantastic adventure which i wrote about in the in the circuit the book the circuit and i enjoyed it i got a lot out of it and of course i learned that we shouldn't be militarily in afghanistan i learned that very early on what were the Taliban like then for for for people that you know people have got to say who are the Taliban you know they're they're there's different factions you know um there's the hardcore Taliban that ruled the country uh along with mullah omar the likes of mullah omar and uh and i remember meeting a guy who had been captured and interrogated by the cia and then released back into um Kabul uh who was the pakistan ambassador of the Taliban and every word that come out of that guy's mouth has proved to be true you know um you know he's an open book and he sits in Kabul today and the media or some of the media that want to tell the real story will go and interview and i've got pictures on on my website where where we went to meet him and i've met him two or three times over the years they were educated some of them very well like you know university education brilliant brilliant brain um and they're hell bent on getting back to Kabul and they were very proud to say we know that you have the watches but we have the time in other good in other words we don't care if it takes generations we'll just keep chipping away you stay here we'll chip away at you eventually you'll go just like the British have gone three times before and the Russians have gone and there we are today we've lost four now you know four now when are we going to learn you know wow you can tie in every other conflict with that they're they're they're all you've only got to learn your history to see that they're all instigated by sociopaths yeah i mean you know i started off talking about T. E. Lawrence Lawrence of Arabia if the powers to be had listened to that man who was a subaltern you know that man was streaks ahead of the generals and the political officers and all the other people that were you know movers and shakers of the new Middle East and then much later in the 1920s the Sykes-Picot agreement between the British and the French carving up the greater Middle East by just drawing lines in the sands and splitting tribes and really not giving a damn as long as they get what they want out of it and here we are today the people that tried to live there are still suffering from that agreement and you know still suffering from our wars you know and there's a lot to be learned and i i like the fact that there are younger people than me who took part in the more recent wars that get it and they become a voice and they're not shy of voicing their opinion and hats off to them you know i was just an older guy a civilian walking down the middle part of the road with journalists looking at what's going on even though i did military embeds with the Americans the Brits the French the Canadians the Afghans you know but it it opened my eyes they're working with the media they might be doing a three-minute story to air on tv next week and it might take seven to ten days to get all the material to tell that story well i'm listening and asking my own questions i'm getting seven to ten days worth not the two to three minute story and i'm seeing everything with my own eyes and that story that's being told remember back in America is for clicks yeah so it has to be told in a certain way i call it news light because that's what it is they're telling part of a story they're not telling the whole story and they're doing that because they want to keep an audience they want to stay popular otherwise people will turn off and watch the other channel you know so i'm so i'm learning or you know when i was doing it i was learning heaps and that's why i wrote the book with my wife i wanted to spill it all out in the table because i was getting angry make sense of it and tell the British taxpayer what their money's getting wasted on you know blood and treasure great young men and women in uniform thinking that they're doing the right thing well they are by just looking after each other you know yeah so i was just saying a couple of days ago i was in i think it was in a podcast i can't quite remember who i was saying it to but um two of the guests that have been on the podcast uh both elite forces smuggled themselves into Afghanistan recently they had to do the full shebang you know wear all the gear and black themselves you know darken themselves up commonly referred to as doing blackface now i believe but um they got in there with a camera and it's exactly what every person with half an ounce of intelligence said 20 years ago yeah the stories keep getting regurgitated i i watch stories out here um on not just afghanistan on palestine the israel palestine issue doesn't matter what side of the venture on but it's the same stories today as i you know i was covering with the media 20 years ago during the second intifada the conflict between the israelis and palestinians in 2001 2002 that was bloody you know it's the same stories today because the international community doesn't care you know nobody cares so they're getting on with it decade after decade after decade the afghan people have had 50 years now of war of conflict 50 years that's outrageous in the 21st century anywhere on the planet yeah and you've only got to think of bush bush's smile isn't it you know i you know i mean at the end of the day we supposedly live in a democracy and we all have a voice and if you don't like it lobby your mp when you lobby your mp he or she is forced to bring it up in parliament that's their job and i tell people in america you know well what can you do they've got this great wording what can you do well you live in a democracy you can do whatever you want you know but nobody nobody's bothered you know they're keyboard warriors they you know they'll they'll write about it with their mates on facebook put the world to rights but won't actually get out there and do anything about it and until people start to do that nothing's going to change we're going to remain the little people and the odd few are going to get richer and richer and richer i mean look at what they want us to do now they want us to sit indoors and press a button on our computers and the amazon truck will show up with our food with our blankets with you know anything anything that don't go outside stay in your house get bigger and bigger and bigger you can even send for your big farmer you don't have to go out you know this is what they want you to do they want the car they want the car to i i i just bought a new car not that long ago and the guy spent all his time trying to tell me what the car can do for me and i'm like listen mate i'm old school i want a car that i'm in charge of i don't want a car that's in charge of me and of course americans for some reason they come out of their driveway backwards onto the busy street backwards and you know i asked my neighbors why do you come out backwards well probably because we're too lazy we come back home we're tired we just go in forward so in the morning we have to come out backwards i'm like but that's crazy i see accidents every day and of course the mummy or daddy that's taking their little children to play school or to junior school the kids are sat in the back of the car so they're going to get whacked first you know and it's a mentality thing if you can start the day by driving your car out of the driveway forwards then perhaps the rest of your day is going to go just as well you know it's it's a very different mentality when i when i have a a british special forces guest on the podcast when the camera's off they very often just say fucking load of shit chris isn't it with reference to what's going on in the world even them even the the the military career itself a bit like what you're saying bob about these heroes and legends thing that's well the heroes the heroes and legends are either every individual that puts on a uniform or no individual you know i have a thing about special and i keep saying we're not special i've said it in talks in the past we've all come from another unit so how are we special all we are is you know we have a little bit more self-discipline and we have a little bit more you know self-determination than the other people on the course which makes us stand out and we pass the course nobody fails sas selection nobody fails it only certain people pass it you can go back to your unit and you can hold your head high that you even attempted it but you but we all we've all come from a different cabbage so how on earth are we special you know we're all just normal soldiers with those two distinctions that i've just mentioned and the instructor of which i was one at one point will look at the student and will just think would i be happy going on operations with this individual if the you know if it's yes you've passed if it's no you'll be told why and you can go back to your unit you know and it's not like the navy sails where if you want to come off the course you go in the middle and you ring the bell i mean for me how degrading is that you know you can you can stay in bed in the morning everybody else is getting their bergens together on the truck and off to the breccan beacons but when we all come back you're gone you're back on the train and back to your unit you've lost nothing you've lost no respect nothing you've probably learned a little bit because you've been with other lads and you know you can take that back to your unit with you you know and and as i've been doing military courses with other military units um i've always used that as an opportunity to pin people and try and get them to come on selection and they're like bob i'm happy being an infantryman i'm like but you'd be ideal at herford i don't care i'm not interested i want to be the best infantryman that i possibly can be in my unit hats off to those people our loss you know so there you know there are hundreds of lads that could breeze selection they don't want to you know yeah it just seems like our guys look at the last 20 years and they just say it for the the crock of shit it is bob you know yeah that's unfortunate that we have been under or adhering to american foreign policy and the americans are of the same way of thinking you know the lads that were out there have wised up and and they've seen it with open eyes where you know they're not being dictated to by senior ranks and and and they're like my god look what we've just been through i don't want to see young lads and lasses going through that ever again so they're you know they've got voice they're just the same as us they're no different you know and all the american embeds that i did brilliant people brilliant people just put in positions that are impossible i i went to um in 2006 i went to the scariest place i have ever been in my life and that was the first media embed ever tv media embed with troops in helman province the northeast of afghanistan and they were getting hammered and they were in this tiny little f o b at the bottom of a valley where you could touch the mountains next to you and eventually i didn't have a crystal ball but eventually when i left i couldn't wait to leave when i left that f o b was overrun something like eight american soldiers were killed 21 or 24 wounded and they just pancake the local village with the 2000 pounder men women and children you know um horrendous situation to put soldiers in good soldiers horrendous and it's the first time i'd ever been into a position where the guys eyes were out on stalks and they're screaming and shouting at each other and pulling each other because they were scared so was i and i was only in there for a short period of time doing a news story i couldn't wait to get on the helicopter and get out of there and there's now a film about it cam dash those of you that might be interested k a m k a m d e s h cam dash and i take my hat off to every individual that served there but i don't take my hat off to the senior officers that put them there now and it's amazing like the brits surviving in helman for so long it is amazing that those young men and there was a few women as well young men and women that served through cam dash actually lasted as long as they did i'm amazed you know um but yeah dreadful dreadful scenarios run by you know senior officers that like i said earlier too busy wearing their political hats and not wearing their military hats you know yes sadly i i do make cowards led by cowards led by sociopaths and it's it's no different to looking out the window at what's going on it it's all it's all the same agenda they look down at us and they laugh they laugh well they you know you know yourself i mean you've got a point there i mean you know all all these people that make their millions in wall street are sociopathic to be able to do it in the manner that they do it in the first place you know so anyway there you go but um but but you know it it's a life i i had you i had a blast in the military you know that this has been a this has turned into a bit of a doer interview and that's my doing putting out what i believe but i i had a blast in the military i wouldn't have it any other way um it gave me a life and it gave me mates for life and you know i just lost a mate the other day a laddie called jerry and my heart goes out to his family and all his close friends and it's like losing a member of your own family you know every single one of and of course i'm at that time of life now where it's going to happen more and more you know and it hurts did you struggle at all bob when you when you left i i think i yeah i've struggled i think everybody struggles some might may not admit it um i think it doesn't matter who you are we are all breakable because we're human beings and uh you go through certain things and if i had 40 years in war zones 40 years from 1972 to 1994 okay uh in and out of war zones and if that doesn't affect you you're not human so yeah i think as i say we're all breakable we've all got little chinks in our armor and i think it's how how we cope with it you know yeah well can you give some tips and because we got you know we're in a veterans suicide epidemic at the moment it's only set oh i know i'm well aware of it and it's huge over here is to 22 people on average a day veterans 22 people commit suicide over here it's huge but we're all individually we're all like snowflakes we're all different okay you and i you know we can talk we're talking we can have a great um conversation but i'm sure we're completely different people even though we went through the same stuff so people handle it in different ways i think one of the worst things that happen is when the individual bottles it in doesn't come out their shell doesn't share it you have got to share it you've got to share it and then you see that your mates are actually like minded or some of your mates and you can help each other and you can only help each other by looking forward don't find the bottle don't find the drugs don't find a rope find your trainers get them back on go through b run stick your pack on get out in the woods get out in the hills get out in the fresh air enjoy life enjoy the earth that we live on it's a fantastic place despite the fact that people are telling us otherwise i live in new york i've just had a little trip with my wife and and my child up to uh upstate new york in the wilderness there's moose there's bears there's mountain lions there's wolves there's everything and they're stunning stunning scenery and three four days up there walking around that's me for the rest of the year now i'll do the same thing later in the year and keep keep myself going i love it you know i i still run i still tab run with the bergen on no more than 35 pounds i look forward all the time i really look back unless i'm just sitting down reliving great memories you know um and i think that's the way to go but you've got to share it if you don't share it you're on a hide into nothing that's my version you've got to share it the right people as well because you know let's be honest about the veterans community it's a massively judgmental people in there yeah i think i think when when you're having a bad time you find out who your mates are you know your real mates and i find that out i know dozens of mates they've done the same thing they've found that out as well and stick by your real mates and you know everybody else will come around you eventually you know yes but um but i think you know when i wake up in the morning i always look myself in the mirror and i hate what i see but um and i ask myself questions all the time i question myself you know and i used to do that in the military i used to question myself all the time remember it doesn't matter if you're a four-man sas patrol or a 31-man platoon there is a weak link in there is it you i used to ask myself that all the time am i the weak link troop staff sergeant am i the weak link the smi of the jungle school w1 am i the weak link you know bob listen i i can't wait to ask you about the jungle but i'd like to do that in another podcast yeah no worries so i think we've we stretched this one out the thing is with podcasts if they're too long then people go oh i'll watch that later and then of course later never happens and they miss your story and so let's keep it there no worries enjoy it let's go again soon oppo that would just be wonderful well take care of it all the best to you bob shout out your books before we go and just explain what they're about we uh 12 years ago we wrote a non-fiction book called the circuit and it's basically to do with the security circuit the privatization of war and how my feelings on the circuit being self-regulated as opposed to what i think it should be and that is externally regulated holding these big companies to account to allow their men and women on the ground to do the job properly with the proper skills so it's a lot of stories about what i got involved in and it makes for what i've been told an interesting read and then off the back of that doing so well um we wrote two books one is called the infidel about afghanistan our vision of afghanistan it's my wife and i and a book the third book the good jihadist about the west involvement in pakistan and afghanistan with interesting characters are there any fills on the horizon about your books bob they say there is i mean i'm talking at the moment and have been for some time COVID didn't help um for the infidel the infidel is a modern day take on kipplings the man who would be king and of course there's that great 70s film with shawn connery and michael cayne well these are two xsas guys who work the circuit got themselves in a bit of a bind and are working their way out of it and it runs the lines of the man who would be king so it's a great read yes okay mate if you ever need anybody to play you in in one of these films then you know you look no further mate well i was thinking that i mean you're young enough you know you've got the good looks wow you look hard as nails at the same time so which i'm not of course i have to have a week a week though you've just felt it now okay take care i gotta get a new week because this one's getting a hole in it okay all the best to you brother i'll see you soon just stay on the line to everybody at home massive love to you look after yourselves please like and subscribe and you'll find bob's links below cheers cheers