 Hey, this is Christian Buckley doing another MVP buzz chat and I'm talking today with Niels. Hello. Hi, I'm Niels. I'm a consultant based in the Netherlands. I recently joined the group of MVPs and I'm a technology professional in that base in the Netherlands. 30 years old. I like to play chess, play games, ride my bike. Yeah, that kind of thing. I have a passion for the Microsoft Cloud Technology Sports. That's why I became a Microsoft MVP and yeah, let's go from there. What's your focus area for MVP? Enterprise mobility. Yeah, I'm in the Azure Virtual Desktop space and the automation space and we build and manage cloud proposals for our customers based in the Netherlands. So yeah, I'm focused on the Windows 10 Autopilot and Azure Virtual Desktop and management by infrastructure code or NURDIO or yeah, like that. I'm nominated by Bas van Kam. Do you know Bas van Kam? I do not. He is also an MVP in Enterprise Mobility. He is a CTO of NURDIO, which is the automation like skin you can use. So it's GUI based but yeah, more like infrastructure code guys. So we use both to fully manage Azure. Yeah, infrastructure code automation would really the new mindset with cloud technologies in mind to be able to create a perfectly performing environment for our customers. Well, I know that it's a growing area, especially in the MVP program. So I think that over the last two months, I think my fourth or fifth Enterprise Mobility MVP that I've interviewed. And so I know that it's always kind of a leading indicator with Microsoft of where they're seeing growth and where their emphasis is. So I'm an Office Apps and Services MVP, which has been historically, it's been the largest category. If you think about all of the products that are the Office products and then you have SharePoint and Teams and Yammer and OneDrive and kind of all of that in one giant bucket. But within that category, you have people that are very focused on SharePoint, very focused on their Excel MVPs, PowerPoint MVPs, OneNote MVPs that are all bucketed within that. But again, when Microsoft is expanding in new areas, like we see just suddenly this influx of new Enterprise Mobility, like there's a lot that's happening in that space. Yeah, of course. That's a lot to do with COVID. There's a lot to do with COVID, of course, the Winnestand autopilot proposition landed in exactly the right spot. Just before COVID hit, it became mature. So you could really deploy your machines via the joint model. And you could really let your service from home working users to be able to service them with all they need. And if they need new applications or deploy new apps or anything like it, you could service them from home. Yeah, it's perfect. Really well planned if you think about it. Well, so I said there's a reason why Microsoft stock has been soaring. And so many, it's like throughout the pandemic in multiple areas across this ecosystem, where I talk to people like in the collaboration space that I work, like there's nobody out of work. Like everybody, like I never saw a slowdown in business, in client work that happened before I joined my current company, AppPoint. But what was kind of your path into the role and your path to becoming an MVP? My role started with Bus.com and he is an MVP already for a couple of years. And he asked me to present at a local event to speak about Winnestand autopilot. And it was in the late 2018, early 2019, when Winnestand autopilot was really new. And we were doing this for our customers. And this customer had a really SaaS based application landscape. So it was really well fit to be the first Winnestand autopilot users. So I have done a deep dive into Winnestand autopilot and presented about it, what were the possibilities. And it was just when you could first deploy a Win32 app via Intune. That was in private preview. And then that's when I presented about it. So yeah, I got a lot of energy from that and got a lot of positive feedback. And people helped me and engaged me with why don't you start a blog. So I started the blog writing about autopilot. And you get more and more feedback. People from all over the world send you emails, could you please help me with this or that or starting answers on TACnet? And yeah, getting a lot of positive feedback. Some people send me an email just to thank me for writing my blog and explaining the techniques used and how you could deploy an app or deploy a shortcut or deploy a custom icon for a shortcut, all that kind of thing and deploy Winnestand policies. Yeah, that's my path to MVP. So it started two and a half years ago. And I've been blogging, have started a user group with some other MVPs. And about this is the Dutch Azure Virtual Desktop user group. And so it's about Azure Virtual Desktop, and yeah, we have a lot of speak from Microsoft and because in the Dutch based community and use computing via service based computing solutions is really big. Citrix is really bigger and everybody is looking towards Azure Virtual Desktop since it's more maturing and maturing as a product. And so yeah, we speak about these products and get a lot of positive feedback. These user groups mostly are attended by I think 60 to 70 people. And yeah, it's going really well. And I like it. That's great. Now, you know, one question that I hear a lot and I'd love to get your take as a new brand new MVP, like you just got your MVP, like when did the actual award come? I don't have it yet. So I need to let me check brand brand new. Yeah, since the 1st of October, and I'm not even on the MVP side. So if you look me up, I'm checking it every day, of course, find an MVP. I'm not I'm not there yet. So yeah, since the 1st of October, I need to get my reward kit. And yeah, I've already activated the traditional unpacking video of opening up. I'm going to do that. Yes, because it's it's it's a little bit cringy, but it's yeah, it's just a really special thing. I'm really impressed by your wall over there behind you. Yeah, I just I had this this year. I was it's been 10 years. Yeah, very cool. Congratulations. It's very exciting to continue to get those. But no, so I'm interested to hear kind of your thoughts too on because the question that's asked is well, like, well, how much do you feel like you have do you feel to to kind of, you know, to talk about Microsoft technologies, do you to like, like MVPs were not out there just, you know, shilling for promoting Microsoft, it's, you know, we're we use them, we're passionate about them. But kind of what's your take on that, like, of, of, like an MVP of like your role and what you've done over the last at least the last year in representing the product and being a voice for the product within the community. Well, of course, it's a voice for the product. But the main thing is that when I started with Windows 10 autopilot, there was very few information out there. So there were a couple of guys were blogging about it. And I'm starting to create my own tricks tips and tricks. And I thought, yeah, I'm grabbing all this information from the internet. And I can share it myself too, because I can find some things and I'm creating things myself. I thought maybe I could help other people with my solutions. And that's where it started. And after you get more and more feedback about about these tips and tricks that you post about, then yeah, it really goes from there, I think. And it's really the starting point should be helping people and helping technology professionals, professionals get better at the trade really. But the I think an important word that was from missing from my description is that you're being an independent voice. So what does it mean to be an independent voice for these Microsoft solutions? Good question. I think that you could express your own feelings in your own take on how Microsoft products could be used and how you could implement them and what the downsides and upsides are from a certain solution. And that's where you can really advise some people whether you should go for a certain product in a certain situation. And when you should, for example, go for Windows 10 autopilot or Azure Virtual Desktop. And people love to hear thoughts about the situation, the scenario, and how it could help them to make certain choices which will be as good as they can for their users actually. Because I think that's a great point to make for the people that have the questions that are out there. And that's a difference between the product team, the product marketing teams at Microsoft are fantastic at going out there and advocating for the products that they help build. But you're getting that one-sided view and MVPs provide that real world perspective on the solutions. We're practitioners in the areas where we have that specialty. And we are familiar with competing products. So I don't know how often you get questions about other competing platforms and your experience with that. But how do you usually respond to that? Because look, no matter what product area that you're in, there are competing solutions. If there's not a product, there are other like services that build it yourself solutions that companies have gone built, which you're also then usually MVPs have experience with those things as well. So how do you respond to some of those competitive questions? Well, there is always the Azure Virtual Desktop versus VMware Horizon versus Citrix versus just working on your own laptop. But it's not always a good fit for everyone. You know, your use case should fit the product. And you should not look for the product first and then check your use case. It's all about use case. It always has been. If you are a really heavy CAD user, CAD for the technology, the technical, I don't know how to call it in English, but you know what I mean. And yeah, if you have that use case, you need really good media direction. Yeah, please pick Citrix. You know, there's certain use cases where you need to advise products other than your own specialty, because it's best for the customer. You know, the customer and their use case always come first. And if it's not a product that lies in my specialty, it's fine. I would rather see them have a good solution instead of using a solution that I built and that doesn't fit for them. You know, that's really my take on that. I agree. You know, it's funny, working for ISVs. Historically, I had some very angry salespeople at me. They're like, why are you recommending a competitor for that solution? Because our customer needs a product that we don't offer. Yes, they compete with us in other areas. We don't compete here, and it's the best product. I'm going to recommend that because that's what the customer needs. And I think a lot of what I was providing as an MVP was that, again, that independent voice, even independent of what my company is. I looked at it as with pride when I would give a talk at a conference and somebody comes up to me and says, you know, from your presentation, like, I have no idea what your company does. I said, because I didn't talk about what my company does. Well, then what does your company do? I'm like, well, let me tell you what my company is. But I had a great, they were comfortable in having that conversation because I was being neutral. I was talking about, here's what the platform is. Here's what the business problem is. This is what customers need. Here's the gaps from existing solutions. And I said that and take a look at, you know, from the partner ecosystem of the solutions that are out there, it automatically, you don't need to hammer people over the head with like, this is what we do. And here's what how I can help you around that, that it's inferred, you know, in, you know, by being neutral on that, and that you are an expert in that you build the trust that they want to have those conversations about possible solutions, then you can have the company, you know, a conversation with you where you're representing products and services. It's always being a trusted advisor. And it's that that means that you don't always recommend your own product. Because that couldn't be the case if you're a trusted advisor, you only advise your own products, then you couldn't be on the seed as trusted advisor. So yeah, that's the story actually. Yeah, that's always that's also and that's so true with us as MVPs. And I'm sure you'll as you are in the program where Microsoft doesn't want to just hear, you know, yes, all the time to the MVPs and take what we've given you, they want that feedback, they want the pushback sometimes, you know, we need to do it in a constructive way. And there are some, you know, MVPs and not MVPs as people in the community that don't quite get that part of it that you can't go in hot, you can't go in angry with Microsoft, because Microsoft didn't do something that you think that they should be able to do. But you have that conversation, you have you get like, here's what we're experienced, here's what's happening with my customers and represented the community back to Microsoft. So it very much is a it's a two way thing. It's great to be a member of the program, the MVP program. There are great perks, benefits, insights that we have. Obviously, it helps. It'll help you in your career by, you know, being known as a Microsoft, trust you enough that they elevate you to this MVP because of the quality of the work that you've done. But it's also a great way for customers to know that I can talk to you and you can give this feedback of the gaps that we're seeing in the current products and offerings back to Microsoft and represent the community back to Microsoft. Certainly, I had a talk with a potentially new customer today as well. And it was exactly the same experience as you would describe it like now. Yeah, that's when they say, well, the sales manager introduced me as a Microsoft MVP. I was too modest to do so. But they are like, okay, then we're talking with a serious person right now. So it really gives a purse and always in the in the conversations as well. So yeah, I'm really humbled to join the program and I'm really liking it. And yeah, the feedback from the communities is vast. It's really impressive. Yeah, it's no, I mean, it is the I mean, the two best perks out of being an MVP are number one, just the association of the community. And instantly, you have a way to connect with these people all over the world and have those conversations. The secret for everybody else that's not an MVP is that pretty much all MVPs are very approachable anyway, we're very social, very well connected. And we welcome like, ask us questions, reach out to us. Yeah, no problem. Like, like, right, don't be shy, come to us with questions and connect with us. But having the connectivity, the other perk that I absolutely love, highly recommend for you is when the in person MVP summits happen again on Microsoft campus in the Seattle area, try to go in person. Like, I'm sure they're going to try and do it's been virtual the last two times. And I'm sure they're going to try and do some flavor of hybrid when it's back in person. That's a much right. Generally, yeah, so we'll see what happens because Microsoft campuses are still not open again. But if they're open, if they do it in person, I highly recommend that you prioritize and try to make it over because I mean, you can't replace that in person, you know, connection with the product teams with the executive leadership with your fellow MVPs. And you'll make connections that long after you've left the MVP program, you'll still have these friends and connections you make through events like that. Yeah, I don't know. Do you know Michel DeRoy also from the Amsterdam area? He is an MVP in the exchange program, has written some books about it, and he told me as well, yeah, you make friends for life in the MVP program. Yeah, that's really awesome. Well, as always recommend for anybody, any MVPs that are out there, I'm not just interviewing brand new MVPs, but long time existing MVPs that, you know, let's talk your origin story here on this. That's what the MVP buzz chat is all about, getting to know fellow MVPs across different focus areas around the world. So, well, Nils, really appreciate your time today. People that want to follow you get in touch with you, what are the best ways to reach you through social and elsewhere? Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn, Twitter, GitHub, follow my blog, nilscock.tech, and yeah, I think you will mention me in the post, so you can find it. I'll do that in all the blogs. So, yeah, if you're watching this out on YouTube, you can find it out at buckleyplanet.com as well. There's always a blog post that has all the links to the social. So, Nils, really appreciate your time today. It's a great meeting you, and hope to see you maybe next year in person at that event. I hope it was very cool. Thanks for having me.