 What's up everybody? We're here for classicast number seven now. We're here for classicast number seven. I'm here for Stay Safe. I'm here for Tips Out. How you guys doing? A little bit of an audio issue here. What's up everybody? Yeah we're here for classicast number seven. It's been a long time. It's been a real long time since we last did one of these. It's been probably over a month now hasn't it? Yeah like five or six weeks I think right? It's been a little bit. It's been a little bit. We've been busy boys. Absolutely. In fact it's been so long that our webcams have frozen literally. Is it better? There you go. There we go. We're good. There we go. Okay. Well are we good? We're good. We're good. Okay. So for those of you guys who haven't been maybe fully invested. Maybe haven't been following along so much. A few big things have happened over the last few weeks. Namely we got BlizzCon tickets. We went and we got BlizzCon tickets which was yes that was a big time. We got BlizzCon tickets. So classicast is going to be traveling to BlizzCon which is going to be a lot of fun. We're finally going to get to all hang out together. We might get to do some fun stuff there like some fun videos or whatever. So that'll be a big time for sure. Yeah I'm expecting a lot of classic news at BlizzCon. I think this will be a very heavy classic centric BlizzCon. What do you guys think? Yeah absolutely. I don't know about BlizzCon guys. I'm not sure I'm going to be there but classic con I will be there. Absolutely. I really do think that it's just going to be what the hype is all about. I mean there's nothing to me there's nothing that's going to be coming out or nothing that's anticipated to come out that's going to be anywhere close to classic wow and I think you could actually turn the entire thing kind of like tips it like it's classic con right turn the entire thing into you know we're going to have Warcraft III remastered we're going to do this we're going to do that I think I think it's going to be a great time I think it's going to be an absolute blast. Yeah I mean I mean obviously we don't know what they're going to talk about like they could have some sort of secret thing they're going to announce but in my mind growing up paying attention to BlizzCon for the decade or so there's two types of BlizzCon. BlizzCon's where they have a big wow expansion announcement and then sleeper BlizzCon's where they don't have a big wow announcement right right you know if they have like a new Hearthstone expansion or Overwatch hero to announce maybe I'm biased but that's not really like that's kind of sleeper we need some classic news I think that's going to be the big seller of this BlizzCon. Yeah I think it's not it's really not hard to screw up BlizzCon I mean that's pretty much what everybody wants that's that's what the hype's all about like I said I mean if they go in and they let's say buy some crazy stretch of the imagination they just don't talk about classic of BlizzCon I think that's pretty much the only way that they could they could fail or like if they came out and they said like hey guys still working on it okay here's here's the new Overwatch map or whatever it's like dude really oh dude imagine the public outcry imagine the outcry if they don't mention classic you've seen the BFA Q&As people spam classic and classic cones and art like people just spam classic news during the BFA Q&As yeah people are desperate for it they're thirsty yeah for sure for sure so we we something else has happened last week I was on allcraft some of you guys might be here from that I was on allcraft talking classic with with hoted with Ridge with Aswin Gold and we got a chance to go into just kind of we didn't really go we didn't have enough time to be completely honest we didn't have time to go really deep into the wide variety of topics that we touched on but there was a lot of topics that we touched on and I thought it would be good to for this class cast since it happened recently go into some of that stuff talking about sharding talking about Q dodging and we're gonna finish with the Q&A today as well so the first thing yeah the first thing that I do want to talk about is the sharding because I actually I came out and I was talking about it like almost like it was a joke like I was like right guys there's gonna be no sharding but I kind of got the feeling that people were like well why not which blows my mind honestly um I see sharding as something that is very not vanilla you know we talk about vanilla is vanilla Ian has the coast to set it that's what everybody wants it's people want vanilla wow the overwhelming majority of people want no changes whatever that no changes means to them for me it's 1.1 to 1.12 in between there come up with that version of wow right so yeah I would be absolutely shocked if we have sharding I mean what's the quote uh I don't know what word but you know how the coast has came out during that what was it the first BFA Q&A says we know it's about the community with the rough edges but it's about the community so sharding does huge it hugely undermines the community aspect of of server community and server identity like knowing knowing that if you're leveling a strangled turn veil everyone that's there you're actually seeing and you can engage with is a huge part of like being able to make friends I really really dislike sharding I hate sharding I would probably not play classical out there with sharding that's how much I dislike it yeah and I think I think unfortunately the people are operating under the assumption that ends are going to be a lot higher than they are I don't know if it was misunderstood on all crap but it seems like some of the retail guys think that the servers are going to be like 20,000 people and obviously as we know that the blizz like population caps back in vanilla around 3000 and even if blizzard decides to expand that I can't imagine they go like beyond five six seven thousand at the greatest I think it's just ridiculous beyond that so in that case sharding is not going to be nearly as as necessary I think as a lot of those guys thought but yeah yeah I think that I personally think 5000 is a fine number I think you can have a server that's and we did it 14 years ago 2500 3000 people I think even that's fine you can play on a server without many people and have a lot of fun but one of the things that have come up recently is well private servers have whatever server cap you know 10k 15k whatever and yeah people have kind of gotten used to that private server experience playing with an international community the server is pretty much always popping off morning night whatever time you're playing like that's that's pretty cool like I get that I understand that but in terms of what blizzard is doing this kind of stuff ends up it's like a snowball effect right okay if we increase the population raise the population cap now you're going to have to talk about dynamic response if you're talking about dynamic response then you're not this you're not that because you can't just have like the same respawn times for everything whenever it was designed for 2500 or 3000 people if you know yeah yeah so like I mean at that point your your economy is going to be bad if you have it too if you have the response too fast economy is going to be bad because you're you're going to have everything's going to be inflated so there's a lot of and this is why I think the classic beta is so so important is because they're going to have to do a lot of like okay let's look at this let's look at that like how is this going to work how's that going to work and they might even have to call on some some private server research maybe I mean I know they have a good relationship with the Australia's team and they they've probably looked at some of the stuff as far as like their data like their analytics on their servers to and I think they should I think they should use that stuff to make an educated decision yeah you raise a really good point every change you can possibly make it doesn't end at just that isolated change for example increased server population caps that would have to mean either sharding or dynamic response there is always something else it's almost like a domino effect of implications you have to keep tweaking things to accommodate for these changes that's something you really really really blizzard really needs to consider when considering changes for classic well I agree and the domino effect is so substantial that I think nobody's going to know everything like how everything is going to affect everything but one thing I took away from that all craft was it definitely seems like players that have experienced vanilla since vanilla have a far better understanding of how those things work so as when you brought it up you know bringing on nostalgia or something like that after that last all craft I am very much for having some kind of small external consulting team on the payroll off the payroll it doesn't matter of guys that really understand vanilla because if the people that are working on vanilla right now you just don't have that experience uh that you know private server experience and where I supposed to talk about them but let's be realistic here if they don't have that experience they might not understand the intricacies of vanilla and might you know scuff the launch accordingly so definitely it would be very nice if we at least knew a couple of people were well versed on vanilla beyond just you know back in 2004-2005 and they could you mentioned the long beta phase this one if they I'm in k I'm in favor of them having a six month beta phase where they do stress tests and and if they want to try sharding they can try sharding if they want to try dynamic response try and see what works best and I mean I hope they end with sort of like decisions that don't implicate much but I want them to see and test and then get players involved and see what works best really yeah yeah I think like if they went into the beta and they almost treated it like a fresh honestly like an accelerated fresh where they would go and say hey we're gonna have a 10,000 invite classic beta 10,000 person classic beta invite and they go through and you have like a phase one level 1 through 60 and just kind of see how it goes with whatever they want to roll out if they want to roll out 1.12 talents kind of like how private services done in the past or if they want to do 1.1 whatever however they want to do that now whenever it gets to 60 you have different phases of level 60 testing at different patches so you might have like allow for maybe two resets I'm just like throwing stuff out there like this stuff I've thought about before but like if you were to do something like two resets a week as opposed to one reset a week of MC and you have like MC like 1.4 patch talents and then you do 1.12 patch talents and you just you you flip flop let's look at the data how fast did they kill the bosses here how fast did they kill the bosses there how fast did the entire red go or like how long did it take to complete the entire raid and so on and really look at the the little like the fine tuning the numbers through that I think it's going to be really important yeah and I would almost I would imagine I'm almost positive that they're going to do that stuff internally but I think like you said having more people involved having more players involved more data they can gather the better but I would fully expect them to do sort of testing like that internally or I would hope so exactly I know a lot of people have been saying they don't want a beta you know getting classic out as a priority but but getting a decent classic out is even a bigger priority I don't know if you if we should rush it there's so many things that you just have to get right and while there's a lot of wiggle room you just you don't want to mess up something that's going to destroy the entire experience yeah absolutely like it's just it's it really makes you I mean we all wanted classic for I don't know how long right for some people for as soon as burning crusade came out they wanted classic why back if you mean you can want it as much as you want it but then if you really sit down and start looking at like okay how can they make this happen or in Blizzard's case how can we make this work how can we make this happen you start to realize why it was probably so hard for them to actually get to the point where like okay yeah we're gonna make legacy servers we're gonna make classic servers and hopefully burning crusade servers and wrath maybe after but that's a different discussion but I think that there is a lot of there's a lot of thought and there's a lot of design there's a lot of planning that really needs to go into this and that I mean that's probably why we haven't heard too much recently there's going to be a there's going to it has to be premeditated you can't just like throw something out there like okay let's get the release out as fast as possible right absolutely long story short blizzard hire the classic cast will take care of everything no changes all the way it's going to be perfect it's going to be fantastic we only charge 50 grand a month I would imagine like as far as progress and updates I'd imagine a lot of what they're working now very early on in classic WoW is a technical like how can we get this to run on new software and new hardware and not maybe they haven't even tackled the issue of what patch we're running off of maybe they haven't even done that yet it's still very sort of technical in the trenches sort of boring work you know it's not really the big picture stuff yet who knows yeah I think I think you're absolutely right about that I think another thing that we talked about too on on allcraft was cue dodging this was something that actually it this was towards the end the the allcraft this is a question that came up is like how do you think blizzard needs to approach cue dodging and kind of the issue with cue dodging and there's a bunch of different ways to do it there's people will go in and although we're talking about honor honor grinding we're talking about pre-mades so people will go in alliance pre-made versus horde pre-made they queue up and somebody will see like maybe one person joins the queue and they're like oh it's so-and-so is pre-made right and in so-and-so is pre-made well we're gonna lose we're just gonna lose against that pre-made so what's the point that guy leaves nobody else accepts the cue and then the other team basically gets a free win or like people will join and then they'll get in there and they'll see like oh you know what whatever and they just afk out or or they'll sit at the base and just wait so there's a bunch of different ways that they they do cue dodging this is something that actually is punishable on private servers it's something that private servers actually see is it's it's bad for the game and I would I mean I expect blizzard to do something about it too it's it's the exact same thing as one trading in a sense I mean yeah I agree it's obviously not good for the game but at the same time you know how do they enforce it there's gonna be so many things they're gonna have to enforce and we should probably talk about just enforcement as a whole you got cue dodging you've got griefing you've got honestly just just communication like back in 2004 and the barons you can get away with saying a lot of pretty nasty stuff I'm not sure if blizzard's going to you know I mean I would expect them to be a lot more strict than they were back then I mean when it comes to to win trading specifically I think that's a TOS violation right is it explicitly I don't know actually I have read it but I don't remember I don't know about TOS like I understand both arguments for win trading and not just win trading that doesn't happen as much as just rolling over in bg's if you know you're going to lose that happens a lot I mean so if you're farming honor to rank up your sole priority is your biggest concern is is getting as much honor as you possibly can every hour and so if you if you've queued into a pre-made that's better than yours and you just lose to them you know you're going to lose you've seven times two hours like I understand it's it's actually like technically beneficial for both of you both pre-mades to get in to get in and out as fast as possible it's about like both both pre-mades are getting a more honor than if one pre-mades or one one turtles or or the game just kind of lingers on it's better to get in and out as fast as possible however it is like bad sportsmanship and bad for the game I think if you if you team you're going to you know you're going to lose against just to completely roll over and do nothing I don't like that so I think I do think it should be punishable I think private servers have done the right thing with punishing people for it the question is is it going to be as big of a I guess as big of an occurrence unofficial I think about private services because the community no matter how large it is it's still relatively small especially when you're talking about rain anchors it's pretty easy to coordinate that kind of thing but if you're talking about you know 50 plus vanilla servers with people scattered you know all across the different servers how easy is it going to be to link up and and coordinate you know wind trading and stuff like that I'm sure it'll happen on some servers but will it happen on so many servers that Blizzard needs to step in no I mean it depends on if there's cross roam battleground up until like the last patch of vanilla there weren't cross roam battlegrounds and so you knew everyone you were queuing against you knew instantly oh we lose to these guys we beat these guys and so I don't think wind trading like wind training is not as much of an issue as just rolling over if you know you're going to lose which I wouldn't call that wind trading it's just called efficient use of your time right you want to if you know you're going to lose you want to get in get out try to queue against another team that you know you can beat I haven't used wind trading as much as just rolling over yeah I mean I remember I mean just just to that point I remember because I ranked for a little bit and we were in pretty good pre-made and we would go in and we would get like six minute a b wins pretty regularly but it wasn't because of us just going in there and just like stopping them it was us going in there and they'd be like oh it's so so it's like so and so so and so and so and so are in this group this is this guy's pre-made we'll just sit in the base so where's the line because if you're if you're that good are you going to get that much honor anyway are you going to are you going to be at the top of the because it's it's all about competition it's all about your standing at the end of the day right because if there's if the rank one or the number one standing guy the guy who's going for GM has a million on her week or three million on her week at the end of the day if he's number one he's number one yeah so I mean I think it's one of those it's better to to address it react reactively than proactively sort of thing we'll see what happens I guess yeah I think I think something else actually this is something that you know talking about like oh you see this guy you see that guy um kind of thinking about stay safe something that you had talked about recently a lot on your streams is stream snipers and griefing and did you want to go into that a little bit uh yeah I mean I think that I don't know if you guys have probably streamed vanilla wow at some point only authentic vanilla footage only authentic vanilla footage that's right um well well streaming vanilla wow it's very hard to do it's not a streamer friendly game I don't think it is at all I think it will be very hard especially if you have a ton of viewers even if you there are a lot of big streamers I know uh that are going to be playing on PBE servers because they don't want to get ganked and like that's totally understandable I understand that because it sucks to get at a certain point you know people say getting ganked is content like it's it's funny to get ganked yeah I mean maybe for 45 minutes but after a certain point you just want to play the game that loses its appeal and your viewers are going to get bored of watching you just corpse run back for 10 hours a day but even if you play on a PBE server um you can have people on your own faction or on the up on the opposite faction uh kill every monster in a in a hundred radius you won't you won't be able to get a monster take you'll never you'll never get xp so so stream sniping it's not just a a matter of PBE server or pvp server if if people want to snipe you and hinder your progress they can do that regardless of what server type you're on it it's going to be a very hard game to stream you're going to have streamers especially giant big streamers say uh I can see it now like the tweets a year and a half from now hey guys I'm going to take the day off I just want to play the game like I just want to play the game that keeps like an art I can already see people saying that well dude it's funny that you say that because whenever I started streaming I didn't start streaming until April like I was already level 60 like I started rating and then I started streaming and this is before my band on youtube um I would only stream initially I would stream two days a week two nights a week and I would only stream my raids I wouldn't stream any farming I wouldn't stream any pvp or whatever and I eventually added in more things but even then I was only really streaming like three or four days a week because I had to take I had to be off stream to farm I tried farming stuff on stream and sometimes I would do like darmoly's jump runs or something like that but I think that if you were to stream like people stream retail wow it doesn't work like you're saying it's it's not very streamer friendly so it's not like I can just go around and if I'm playing on a pvp server just stream wherever I want um I do think even on a pve server how pve server works is like if you're in contested territory you can't attack each other unless you're flagged but that doesn't mean that you can't get attacked if you like have to run through a pvp zone or like a like an opposing faction zone to get into a contested zone like you can still get flagged and then you have to wait five minutes till your flag drops so like there's still going to be times where where you're going to be able to be attacked in a contested zone but it's not going to be anything like a pvp server and like you said earlier as far as same faction griefing I know this wasn't even one of our streaming this was while I was leveling I was trying to level an stv and I'm a paladin and I'm trying to run I'm like oh there's a tiger you know you're trying to run to the mob and then there's a druid and he just moonfires him it's like okay crap so I turn yeah and then he moonfires the other one and I'm like dude are you kidding me like I can't get any of these so I gave up on that quest I just left because I mean imagine if I was streaming you know that like moonfire you can just tag everything yeah I mean here's the thing about streaming okay let me I wanted to spell a couple of notions here first and foremost uh the people that think they're going to get ganked so hard on launch and beyond that they're going to roll pve servers I got a message for you first and foremost if you're a streamer by occupation naturally you're going to be playing the game 12 plus hours a day come classic launch and guess what vanilla is like a 200 hour leveling journey if you are somebody that plays 12 plus hours a day believe me the people that want to gank you aren't going to be able to catch up to you because you're always going to be ahead of the curve naturally plus if you're a streamer you probably are going to get access to the classic wow beta and as such you're going to be able to prepare a leveling route that's going to allow you to get ahead of everyone else on top of that the only people that would actually be able to get ahead of you and gank you are private server players or players that already have so much experience in vanilla that they're going to be looking to make their own name in the new classic wow world and with all due respect they don't give a shit about you you know no offense so like you know the the big names in in the classic wow world the monkey news is in these guys they're not going to stick around to gank you they're busy leveling and then all the scrubs that want to gank you just going to fall behind because they can't play 12 14 16 24 hours a day like you can I don't I sorry I don't think that stream sniping ends at level 60 though the majority of your gameplay is going to be that's right I agree it's a bad feeling if you want to go farm monsters or run to a dungeon or do anything ever in the open world knowing that there's people watching ready to kill you like like tons of people stream sniping is probably it'll be a more prevalent problem at level 60 and it will be well-earned I definitely agree at level 60 but I feel like by then it's a completely different perspective because if you do get ganked at level 60 at level 60 your objectives are what to you know get your like right at level 60 you want to get your uh reputations exalted with hydraxian you want to do your two mint quests you want to basically get pre-read BIS these things it's so it's I'm not going to say it's okay but if you get ganked there's a certain recourse for it you've got other people at level 60 that can help out and that could transform into like a faction wide war whereas during leveling it's so much more annoying to get ganked because you actually have this tangible goal of reaching level 60 whereas at level 60 you have so many more options of what you can do to fill that time that you know if you do get ganked it's like I could just move on to the next thing or if you're a big streamer you can be like all right we're going to knock these guys out of the park let's go take over you know crossroads or whatever so there there's a little bit more recourse I feel in that regard I mean when you think about in the scenario let's say Classic WoW has been out and I want to make an alt and now everyone is in full tier two they have they have a level 60 and I'm trying to level my alt while streaming and someone's just permacamping me in full tier two gear like what's the recourse there in that scenario that's a completely different scenario I'm talking exclusively about the launch and moving forward so like like a lot of our streamer friends the really big ones that want to roll pve I don't think they need to on that first character and I think that they're actually compromising the I guess the enjoyableness of their stream by doing so I think the fears are a little bit overblown especially when you take into account how long they'll be playing versus others but on that second and third character obviously when people already maxed at 60 it's a completely different scenario you probably want to roll a pve in that situation but it's three about first character that really matters I think yeah and that's actually that's actually buying my plan myself I I was talking about this before my main is going to be on pvp I'm going to make my main on pvp I'm going to level 60 and then I'm going to make another character on a pve server but I probably am not get more than likely not going to make another character on a pvp server I'll probably just have the one but I'm generally speaking I've always been like a one character kind of guy so it's kind of I'm really just going to be leveling a second guy just to play with more friends on pve that's that's really the only reason I'll be playing that but generally speaking I've been a one paladin kind of guy and I go and I'll level the 60 and that'll be my main I'll run my guild but I do think and it's just like a general like rule of thumb that I think that you shouldn't get any like there really shouldn't be like any special treatment for people streaming or whatever but you don't want to go the other way with it and say that like oh you're you're getting punished for being a streamer so at a certain point ganking camping it turns into griefing and I do know in the past like Blizzard has had issues with people griefing people for like if I go and like I'm just camping somebody and like you said like little 60 full tier 2 or whatever and you're just camping like a little you know 28 guy in duskwood for an hour you know like that's griefing regardless of who it is whether it's a streamer or not right exactly like I do think there's a difference I guess I want to clear for chat I want to clarify how I feel like I do think when you're streaming you take on an extra level of risk like that's something you open yourself up to and that's fine because also as a streamer you can benefit a lot from being a streamer in game you can have people give you free things like it goes both ways right it goes both ways exactly I was just gonna however I'm sorry I didn't cut you off I was gonna say you're right there's that and then there's let me give you guys an example let's say I'm leveling or some guy let's say let's say I'm leveling a 35 and I'm trying to do my quests and I'm streaming and there's a guy that he kills me eight times and he has a buddy standing on the graveyard so I can't graveyard spawn he kills me every time I try to graveyard spawn and this goes on for an hour and a half just non-stop camping griefing I turn off the stream or I just stopped playing for a while and I try to play off stream and they have me added on their friends list and I I'm done with strangle for unveil because I'm getting Kermit camped there and I go to Arathi Highlands to try to quest I'm in Arathi Highlands now and I'm there for five minutes and those the same people come and do the same exact thing in Arathi Highlands they make the game literally unplayable part of the game like it's literally unplayable at that point if someone recognizes your name from from being a streamer even if you turn off the stream they can still continue that behavior at that point I don't think that's well you took that on with being a streamer I think that's actually harassment like I would say that's probably player harassment whether or not and that can happen to you even if you're not a streamer that can happen even if you're not a streamer that happens to people who aren't streamers I would say at that point that would probably in my opinion qualify as player harassment exactly like targeted abuse it's against the TOS if it happens repeatedly especially on stream it's a very bad look and to be honest I think you know it would be a good idea to obviously ban a person that really violates it that much but at the same time like you guys gotta understand something classic wow is gonna be like on the front page of twitch it's gonna be everywhere when it comes out it's gonna be the biggest thing in the world I think it'll break the website it'll break the website yeah how bad is it gonna look if like the top 10 streamers in the classic wow section are just you know bump bump just getting camped over and over and over and over again they're they're reaching out to new audiences a lot of the audiences that follow these streamers were too young to play when vanilla was actually out they're looking at the game and thinking to themselves oh my god this looks like absolute no dog poo like you gotta understand that it makes the game look really really bad too so there definitely does need to be some enforcement I agree I think you're right I mean imagine soda poppin has a hundred thousand viewers he's trying to play classic wow for the first two or three days and he literally he just he gets camped off the game he either has to stop streaming or he says you know what I'm not gonna play this game like I'm not even talking about what us as players are how we think about it how is blizzard going to think about that okay they have a guy that's advertising their game to a hundred thousand people I think for that reason if that's being questioned if he's if he's being camped off of their game I think it's in blizzard's interest to try to try to stop that from happening yeah I do think I do think it's not gonna be an issue initially whenever whenever the game launches I don't think stream sniping at least negative stream sniping from from the sense of getting ganked it's gonna be a real issue um because I was gonna be focused on leveling but um like with any form of griefing like there there is a line you know camping whatever I mean I know with me like now 500 viewers 600 viewers pales in comparison to whatever those guys are gonna get I like I can guarantee you soda asman lyric like these guys are gonna get over a hundred thousand viewers I I would I would go as far as saying with all the big time streamers who have a history with World of Warcraft and specifically vanilla like almost all those guys either either they're streaming or their their online gaming careers started with wow so I would not be surprised to see it have close to a million views on twitch like the wow section or the classic wow section or whatever you want to call it like it's gonna be close to a million views and I like I honestly think it could be that high exactly no I completely agree and like speaking of those streamers like another thing that you that you have to understand like at the end of the day if the server population cap is 3000 dude you might not even get that many people that know who you are not necessarily who you are but like yes yeah depending on how quickly servers fill up depending on how many servers was it provides I mean all of this all these are variables that are going to determine how much ganking takes place and again just just knowing stay safe for example the guys got like a 23 hour 1 to 30 route and obviously by the time classic rolls out you know all these big streamers are going to be practicing on the beta I just don't see anybody that wants to get them going to be as skilled or prepared enough to be able to catch up with them the only people that are going to be able to do it again are the people that already have so much experience that they'll probably be concerned with themselves more than the other streamers at least that it's just a guess I do agree definitely the best way if you're a streamer or anyone or anyone and you want to avoid getting camped or grieved when you're leveling an early classic wow during the launch your best solution is just level faster just level faster than everyone else because you're right the people the other people they're leveling fast and in your in your leveling speed they're concerned about their own character progression and not killing other people that's very true right yeah um I also think something else to point out is that you're going to have people that are on your side as well that are going to want to come defend you like I know there's there's guys who stream classic wow in the past and they'd be leveling and I think you might have echo right now oh boy how about that is that better one person said it was okay so I think I'm is that better okay good good okay so I would go in I would go in and I would go like I'd be level 60 and I'd see like some some level he'd be leveling at like a little 30 or whatever and just be getting camped by like some loser level 60 who has nothing else to do so I would go and I would kill that guy and he would like he would one shot the guy whatever and then I would go kill like a level 60 mage and then the mage would have to run back and then I would resurrect him I'd resurrect the the guy leveling and then I would just sit there and do that for like a few hours because I was bored and I had nothing to do so like I was trying to like be the good guy in that situation but at least like that guy could level you're going to have people on your side too so it goes basically what I'm trying to say exactly yeah I do think like you can be a street you can be anyone and have you can have 10 people trying to protect you and all it takes is like a level 60 rogue to pop out and back stab you boom you're dead like I do think it is very hard to bodyguard someone who is trying to be sniped don't you think that yeah it's hard but I think there'll be a number of people doing it like flourishing and chat who said he was going to do that dude just pop on those you know invisibility detection goggles surround yourself with a swarm of fanboys you get to go you know what I'm saying so um I think from there is there anything else you guys wanted to talk about anything else you guys wanted to bring up from the last allcraft or anything else that's been on your guys mind um I did want to talk about the communities thing yes that's right you mentioned that before do you want to go ahead and start you go ahead and start on that we were talking about this earlier yeah so uh for those that have been playing the bfa beta or watched mr gm's video from the other day there's a new feature coming in bfa called communities now this feature is essentially almost a native built-in discord provider in world of warcraft there are two different types of communities that you can make you can make a community just for the wow community essentially it's like a discord channel for people in world of warcraft on your faction and you can invite anybody across any server to join that discord channel slash community we're just going to call discord channel because it's a lot easier you know to understand then there's the second type of community which the which is the one that's very concerning you can create a cross platform community going to any of blizzard or activitions games that again allows you to communicate in a built-in discord channel regardless of faction regardless of server regardless of even the game you're playing obviously that becomes very problematic in terms of vanilla especially because it seems like this is a corporate-wide initiative the activision blizzard is rolling out do they plan to introduce this in classic and if they do that's probably going to have huge ramifications on things like the engoro uh cartels and the devil's or mafias and the black lotus a node farming and world boss camping cross faction collusion will become rampant and uh i don't know what do you guys think you know off the top of that i think i think that if it's going to be there it's going to be there i understand that discord exists i understand all that stuff and i've been talking about it for months like i i've been talking about this on stream for months but like battle net needs to be done the right way and and battle net as we know right now you know you can you can whisper somebody who's across your your faction on the same server you can you can talk to anybody basically yeah i can even literally go right click somebody and add them as a friend who's on the opposing faction and i think stuff like that it needs to be limited it needs to be highly highly limited now whenever you're talking about communities now you're opening up a whole another can of worms and like you said it's it's basically like discord in game so discord is it's it's fine you at least have to share a server with somebody who's on an opposing faction to be able to talk to them but the big issue is is enabling that sort of cross-faction collusion like okay you can do it i get that you can do it anyway but whenever blizzard is like here you go like it's not good you know yeah i agree this is something that is going to happen across faction collusion it's going to happen it does happen on private servers i don't think that blizzard should encourage it or on their own i expect them to either try to stop it or to do nothing about it i feel this the same way about wow tokens i wish that they would uh instead of just sort of saying with like gold sellers man stopping gold selling and gold buying is really really hard so you know what we're going to do we're just going to sell it ourselves like uh i wish that they would either just do nothing or try to stop it themselves and not provide it provide it on their own same same kind of thing i feel the same way i completely agree with stay safe and like especially when you consider that cross-faction collusion was against the original to us and there's a specific line about it how can you say it's against the rules and then create a feature that encourages that type of behavior and like like again a lot of people say discord exists and people are going to be doing this anyway there's varying degrees of offense i mean would you rather have 90 percent of people doing something wrong or like 30 percent of people doing something wrong obviously it's going to create a different you know environment on the server you want you want to minimize it as much as possible right and there's also things like there's stuff that just didn't exist in in classic like in in original retail vanilla like i don't remember at least not on my servers i don't remember knowing about at least knowing about like a devil swarm mafia or anything like that this kind of stuff was developed out of years and years of the same people playing on the same servers and getting to know each other and wanting to play different factions hey i'm going to roll this i'm going to roll that on pvp servers on a private server this this is something that you can do now in retail but if you play pvp you can make horde and uh alliance characters originally you couldn't do that so just just that plus also the fact that because it's it's illegal it's free people will just make multiple accounts and they might have like a level 60 this guy one account level 60 alliance on that account horde and alliance two accounts two level 60s and it's no big deal that kind of stuff didn't really happen as much back in the day yeah there's a very big difference between pay to play servers or pay to play games and free to play games on free to play games i think you tend to have more you know sort of like toxic rule breaking communities because they know if they get banned or if they get reprimanded it's not a big deal they can just make a new character they don't really lose very much they don't have money in the game skin on the game i guess people say if if blizzard comes out and says hey this is the rule we don't want this happening the majority of people will not do it because they don't want to risk their their actual official account there i think there will be if blizzard if blizzard wants this to be the case there can be a different change in player behavior between private servers and retail well or or classic well i mean i completely agree and uh you brought up a very good point as well as fan about you know this behavior happening almost exclusively on private servers as a result you know like you said there's so many different there's going to be so many random people on the servers that we decide to play on and that you guys decide to play on that it's going to be a lot harder to organize these groups and if it's a very small portion of people exploiting this behavior guess what you can ban them you can find them it's very easy to know you know who's participating in this kind of behavior who's in the double sore mafia as you see it it's obvious and again if blizzard bans it instead of implementing the communities and enabling it i think it's going to lead to a much better experience yeah for sure i think uh you know and another thing that comes up is like well communities weren't 1 1.1 to 1.12 so it's not vanilla is it really an issue and i think that's not the point the point is that it's in the it's in it's part of battle net and whatever they talked about blizzard polish i think battle net is blizzard polish i think that's what they're talking about and yeah yeah and i think that um i think that's something else that people need to realize is well i guess it's called blizzard launcher now or something it's not actually called battle net anymore but we still call it battle net the fact that they put call duty on the battle net launcher i don't think i have two thoughts about it one is it a really big deal if that's on there and it just has more exposure to the game is it a big deal or it just makes you realize okay well like they're what they're trying to do with the battle net launcher are they trying to take it and just make it like its own platform almost like steam because that's what i get out of it and if they're trying to make it its own platform like steam and then and then put in the communities and all this stuff that's just again like they're trying to implement discord steam elements and kind of try and do their own thing uh kind of similar to origin did the same thing with ea or ea did the same thing with origin excuse me um i don't know just things to think about some things that have been on my mind lately so i agree and uh you know they want to create that ecosystem of their games they want you to bounce from game to game they don't want you to leave that that blizzard and activation atmosphere they want they want you to buy products across platform but again it goes back to i think what i said earlier this is why you need a couple of people i'm not i'm gonna say consultants but this is why blizzard needs to have that private server perspective at least understand it this is something that i could see goes over the head of a lot of people that have never played on private before they don't know what the mafias are they don't understand how cross-faction collusion works it's just another example of something that that you really need to to have experienced it um before you can design around it and i hope blizzard has people on the team that have experienced it before they make such crucial design decisions as implementing a corporate wide initiative into all of their games including one that could be potentially destroyed because of it and they've talked about in the past uh i think jay allen brack said in an interview that they'd be willing to work with uh demon and viper if uh if they would want to they'd be willing to take their input so they're probably open to that good idea that's good um i kind of i kind of want to go ahead and move into some q and a the assumption is there anything you guys want to talk about i mean sounds good let's do some q and a okay guys so um if you guys want to do some q and a where we we wanted to do this live class cast and uh take some questions from you guys see what you guys have to say i i know there's a lot of questions and uh even in all craft we got a lot of questions that that we couldn't get to um this last week but uh i saw some questions earlier as well but i i didn't get a chance to run them down or anything so if you guys want to go into anything in the chat just go ahead and add as fan add tips at stay safe ask whatever you want so just make sure we see it um okay i like this one i like this one uh doin discuss selling tokens in game blizzard won't give gold sellers the capital once again okay so you're talking about the wow token what are your guys thoughts on the wow token i mean i i've said mine a hundred times maybe but if you guys want to go into what your thoughts are on the wow token it's kind of like i said i guess i'll kick it off i mean i understand that completely shutting down and cracking down on gold buyers gold sellers everything i big monumental tasks because it is it is a literal a multi million dollar business gold selling and gold farming um but i i would rather them shut down let's say let's say they're really hard time and they can only shut down 10 percent of it and 90 percent of it leaks through they can only shut down 10 percent and catch 10 percent of the people that are involved in it that's still better uh than uh than them offering it on their own i would rather them take a try make an effort then just throw their hands up and give up and do it on their own that's how i feel i absolutely agree and it's very simple if blizzard creates a cash shop with the wow token for classic classic fails period that you just you alienate the core audience so much i don't know about you guys i would you play it i wouldn't play it at that point i'm not going to lie gold is such an important part of vanilla and such an important part of the progression experience that if you're just able to buy it it destroys some of the most meaningful experiences and wow like in your mount you know even just farming consumables getting all your abilities it takes away so much of what vanilla was about that if they just casually roll over and let it slide i think it hurts the game so much so i agree you should fight it tooth and nail um however you can if something slides through then so be it things slip through back in vanilla but at least take a stance against it at least ban people for for for you know engaging that kind of behavior set a precedent made people scared put the fear in god to people that that that are actually going to engage in this type of behavior at least minimize it well right yeah i was going to say you have to imagine blizzard multi blizzard activision blizzard multi billion dollar company they they're probably if anyone if anyone can take a dent in gold selling gold buying it's probably blizzard like they're they're gold buying gold selling trading detecting software it's got to be the best out there i think that i i have faith in them that they will do a good job yeah i i think that i agree i think that one of the big things too is is that it makes it very pay to win like i know if i can if i can hit level 60 and whip out the credit card and basically go buy myself a lion heart helmet if i can go buy my my epic mount it's those are those are key things to the game that gives me a a significant advantage like i'm already getting my prerate this i'm getting my my epic mount for pvp that's going to help me in my honor grind if i want to rank to 14 that's going to help me in farming raid mats uh herbs mining any sort of gathering that i want to do in the open world uh yeah i just think it's it's probably bad uh it's probably bad for the game um just to just have it at all but i i know that you can't uh you can't stop all of it like people are going to be selling gold i get that you can't stop all of it and i know that was like the the wow token was their answer people are going to buy gold anyway why not just give it out and i'll tell you this when i play legion dude i don't have gold means nothing to me i went sieve okay sieve has been streaming sieve hd has been streaming wow recently his friend of ours and he put the he got the one ring he was streaming legion he got the one ring while fishing and he put it on the gold for put on auction house for 100 000 gold and i just i was like i have nothing to do with gold gold is worthless to me in legion so i just went to the auction house and bought it because i thought it was funny you know i spent all my gold and i have not been hurting for gold i've not had any just because of what i personally do in legion i don't even need it like it's it's worthless to me right and i mean retail sorry vanilla it's so different like i'm scratching tooth and nail scratching the bottom of my bag selling freaking old gear that i have to like repair my gear like it's that bad exactly i mean gold scarcity in vanilla wow is a very formative experience like it definitely influences everyone's player behavior you know how when you're running around uh vanilla azeroth and you see people killing monsters running to dungeons and working together informing groups and they're they're out engaging in the world 99 of the time it's because they're trying to get gold they're they're out there playing the game engaging with other players and engaging with the environment trying to get gold if you give if you let people buy gold with real world money that's that leads to people afk and ironforge complaining they have nothing to do i agree um i like this question here from sansi one yes i was gonna say yeah do you think the horde to alliance ratios on classic servers will be as severe as live servers should blizzard do something to control this well i guess first and foremost i don't think it's going to be as bad for a couple of reasons uh but before i get into that uh when it comes to pve typically alliance do you have somewhat you know they have an advantage over horde in many ways however when we're talking about classic wow i feel like because of the monumental importance of the game's return and just how much you know people have been looking forward to this for so long i can first see people kind of forgoing the whole complete mim max experience at least a little bit to pick their favorite races um i do think that's going to happen because it just takes so long to get to level 60 if you don't like the race you're playing or if you're playing a faction just to get that you know those extra blessings of might or whatever it's it's not really worth it on a fulfillment level so i don't think it's going to be that bad um however you know as it was back in the day i don't think blizzard really really touched uh faction balancing personally i really don't think they should because at the end of the day you know as strange as it sounds some people like being the underdog on servers some people like playing on servers that are dominated by another faction personally i know the server that that i want to play on i'm trying to make sure that it's a little bit balanced i think it's more fun that way but for blizzard to step in and tell people you can only roll alliance or you can only roll horde i don't know i just i don't like that that you know i just don't like that an interjection you know what i mean well from from what i remember blizzard's answer to this back in the day they did two things they started opening up free uh server transfers and they i remember they if i remember correctly they gated these free server transfers towards the end of vanilla um by faction because i went from alliance illidan to alliance keltizod in like mid to late 2006 i think it was i can't remember the exact date but i think it was after the next patch i went to alliance keltizod i used to be alliance illidan prior to that and that was one the other thing they did was with the 1.12 patch they introduced the battle groups and the cross realm stuff so the idea behind the battle groups is they calculated these battle groups based on the population of all the alliance and all the horde and they tried to basically put together battle groups with roughly even a horde to alliance ratio and i don't remember what class cast this was but it might have been stay safe like one of the first few class cast we talked about the 1.12 patch and how like i don't i don't like cross from battle runs i don't like that i don't like battle groups i don't like that stuff but stay safe brought up a really good point and that if it gets to the point where it was in vanilla where people were sitting in like freaking 30 minute queues and then the like let's say horde would have a 30 minute queue alliance would have like an instant queue for battleground it might be a necessary evil that they eventually do have to implement into classic and that's something that stays safe brought up and as much as i like i hate to agree with that but i think it might be you i think you might be right on that because i i really don't like battle groups i don't like them yeah i mean even then like that's not the only solution if you have a 30 minute queue you just have to farm on or different ways first off your your factions brackets will be lower so you won't even be expected to farm as much honor even though you'll probably be be farming for the same amount of time like still 18 hours a day or whatever pushing it hardcore you'll just have less honor you'll just have to form in different ways open world pvp uh you know dungeon entrance camping there's a question here from mso what do you think of bounty hunting sites slash colts for this game that will reward stream snipers big money uh well if there's real money involved absolutely not i think any sort of real money trading real world training uh is absolutely should not be allowed the great thing about games in general and world of warcraft especially is that uh your real your real world socioeconomic background if you're rich if you drive a bugatti around and you make 10k a day or if uh if you work you know you wash dishes and you do whatever right um the great thing about this game is that when you log in the game we're all we're all relatively on the same footing all of that is left out in the real world and we're all in the same footing so anytime real money is brought in the game wow token bounty hunting sites like that where you're paying paying people to kill whoever uh absolutely not that should be bannable i agree here's another good one by the way um from zonen uh wait now oh yeah this one's pretty good what are your guys most valued top three things to do as soon as classic hits okay uh as soon as classic hits or like as soon as you reach a certain point because i i think for me i mean the number one thing is going to be well okay if you're getting a real nitty gritty with it i gotta pick my server i mean it's it's i gotta i gotta pick a server and i gotta have my name and and what i mean by that like i remember i did project 70 and i didn't have the name as fan i'd quit like i just didn't want to play it's like that big of a deal to me so i'm not going to i'm not gonna announce what server i'm on until my character's created and then uh so name race one sir choose a server get logged in pick the name and then after everything is done i'm then going to announce and and tell my uh what it's going to be my guild like hey guys here's where we're playing so that's that's if i had to pick three things like and getting real precise with it that's what i would say um yeah i mean for me personally pretty much the same thing uh but you know just rush to 60 rush to 60 i don't do professions while i'm leveling just get to 60 as soon as humanly possible farm base then do professions i mean that first that first month is gonna be insane man like especially on a pvp server you're gonna have to stay ahead of the game we talked about streamers a little bit if you do plan on streaming it's fine i don't think it's going to be a problem we bugged out i think i lost you guys yeah you guys you good are we good hello yeah so i think the tips i think like like froze for a second uh no problem um well i was just saying like it's really important especially on those if you're a streamer uh to rush to 60 as soon as possible waste no time lolly gagging so for me it's primarily going to be just to get to level 60 and then after that we'll see what happens yeah i think you're right leveling fast uh my plan like i've put a lot of thought in this i will my goal is to get 60 within eight real life days um like within eight days of server release uh level 60 i will then uh second piece is level engineering and leatherworking and then uh can you guess where i'm gonna i'll be an ungrown crater yeah that's where i'll be yeah all right everybody in the chat who's gonna be rolling whore to come classic wow you think we're gonna let stay safe get to level 60 in eight days let me see those please absolutely not not eight days not even eight months buddy you're gonna be chilling okay you're gonna be chilling i'll be promised a cool boy so there's another question earlier i'm going to go back up here um dude i don't know why i'm sorry guys my computer is freezing a little bit i don't know what my deal is let me let me close out of some stuff we're getting f's a little bit it's freezing you should warm it up yeah frick it's freaking that's what that's what my computer is doing i don't know what the deal is i have a really good computer so it shouldn't be happy for horde players i call them hk scouts hk scouts get out of here yeah absent chat are we good are we live uh no we're live but uh there seems to be some other issues and i'm i don't know if i have being targeted and censored by those we're being targeted in the center it says that's what's happening we're being targeted and censored okay hopefully that works i closed i closed a bunch of stuff okay sorry about that guys um it's a live show so you know it's funny dude i was watching i was watching one of the all crafts and some i think rich's computer like something happened like he had to restart his computer and chat like was freaking it it's broken it's broken it's like dude it's a live show like stuff happens so i don't know i just thought it was funny just because like you you know it's you know it is what it is um this is a good one uh and and i think stay safe you're you're the you're the leveling master uh how important is it to plan out a questing path or can someone reach 60 by just going with it as they level that's what elvin says and stay safe you want to start that one yeah sure i guess i'll say who here's going to be playing classic wow it's it's your first time playing if if it's your first time playing vanilla wow i would recommend going slow enjoying the game leveling professions making friends doing dungeons finding a guild like really really just play the game and enjoy it i wish i could wipe on wipe my memory clean and replay the game for the first time because it's awesome that first time you log in is totally awesome uh but if you want to like perform on a high level and go for server stuff or start ranking as soon as you can or farm as much gold as you can or whatever uh it all starts with leveling fast and there's two ways to level fast or getting to 60 as fast as possible the two ways play more than other people just play a lot play a ton of vanilla wow really rewards time investment uh you're going to realize that when you start playing it really rewards time investment not quite as much as a game like you know old school runescape but still it still does reward time investment more than a lot of other games and the second way to level quickly is to have a premeditated route and always uh when you're when you're leveling always know where you're going next you don't want to have any periods we're like ah man where do i need to go next i'm out of quests i don't know what to do you always want to know what to do and have a sort of a premeditated plan definitely it's very important exactly so and i'm sorry i was just going to say like and on the subject of like leveling for new players the most important thing and the thing that i know i made a mistake of back in the day and i'm sure a lot of people made that same mistake back in 2004 2006 one thing especially for used to playing cataclysm later that did not exist in classic warren vanilla wow was linear quest hubs you're going to feel obligated or you're going to feel like you know you should be able to to get to a certain level within a certain zone in vanilla that's just going to be your natural you know instinctive response because you're so used to playing the modern game in vanilla it wasn't really that way um you're going to be an stv for example for a couple of levels then you're going to run out of quests and your next available quest is going to be like five or six levels higher than you you're going to have to make a decision do i grind the next couple of levels or do i take the trek to you know arathi highlands or desilis or wherever to to finish off the other levels and kind of fill in the gaps definitely be open minded to traveling and understand kind of how all the different zones work around you especially the level uh the level ranges of each zone i think that's going to help you a lot you know on your questing now for me personally elvin i uh the last time i leveled the 60 i just i coasted i had fun with it i just did whatever i wanted to do and um that resulted in me hitting 60 in five weeks of like i mean i took five weeks to level the 60 the last time i did it yeah i know right so i i again it was just a lot of fun relaxed but you had fun though that's the most important thing you had fun for real it's a game i did a lot i did a lot of pvp i mean i can tell you guys some of you guys who watch my streams regularly or or uh watch my old youtube content uh from back in the day by the way you should follow all of us or sub to us on youtube it's uh you can see it in the uh under underneath our little panels here tips out baby s fan tv and stay safe tv but i my first technically my first stream one of us first like trying to you know mess with stuff and see like okay i wonder how this works with youtube whatever um it was me it was me and my buddy trocova and we were level 30 some paladins and there is a mine in south shore there's a mine in south or not in uh uh hills brad hills brad excuse me in hills brad to the west of south shore and it's a horde questing area but the npcs and they were friendly to alliance so what we did there were a bunch of horde groups in there and we were healing the quest mobs and we would go like it'd be like a cave so like we'd be at the top and they'd be down here and then we'd be healing from the top and they'd be like what the frick is going on or like a frost mage a frost mage we're trying to frost over them and then i would just click and cleanse or uh blessing a freedom them so that they would run and then daze them and the other guys would catch up they'd kill the frost mage and we'd go blessing of my we do all kinds of stuff dude it was so funny it was so freaking funny like that's that's the kind of stuff i really miss uh is that griefing maybe but that's that's not the point it was really really fun and and that's uh that's the kind of stuff i did while leveling the 60 the first time so i um i don't know i mean you could do it you could do it either way you could do it either way it's kind of my point did you get flagged on pve servers for attacking those guys that's a good question i don't know i've never played pve so i don't know that's right one of the some things similar i've seen this done on pve servers there's a really hilarious video um let's say there's a quest to kill a wolf and you're a horde player and you try to go kill this wolf what an alliance hunter can do is uh go tame a wolf that looks exactly the same and uh and have the wolf just like stationary in the forest or whatever and a horde player can run up and innocently uh attack this wolf that's actually a hunter pet and you'll get flagged and then the hunter can just come out and kill you or the wolf the the hunter pet will just kill you there's a couple videos like that it's absolutely hilarious really good it's really good it's easy to get baited man like even just like rolling over somebody like stacking on him or stacking on his mob he accidentally presses the action bar one extra time and he's flagged you know uh yeah uh let's see uh sarin dippies has a really good question about the honor system yeah that's a great question yeah so so sarin dippies wants to know uh if we want the honor system out at launch or a couple months after or yeah so in vanilla wow i think it wasn't until month four month four which would have been february 2005 i think when the honor system was introduced prior to that there was no you couldn't even farm honor you couldn't rank you couldn't grind and then even then when the honor system was added on month four or five i think and there were no battlegrounds so this is the era of of tarn mill versus south shore or black rock mountain honor farming because there were no battlegrounds and then a couple months after that battlegrounds are added i personally i'll let you guys go what do you guys want battlegrounds or no or honor or honor or no at the start um i i've so so i was actually i was talking to to my my french rye about this um for quite a bit a while back and i thought no i thought i just kind of let it play out as it was and what he was saying and he's a more hardcore player i mean he was a gen one raker and and he was saying that he thinks that there's not going to be enough to do he thinks the opposite of what sarin sarin thinks there's too much to do at the beginning he thinks that there wouldn't be enough to do if that uh they they didn't have the honor system on the launch which was to me that's kind of surprising but that's that's a different type of player and it's something that i think we talked about this again i think as we brought this up in the last allcraft was do you want to cater to the the top one percent like at a certain point like you're going to be doing this or that and i think maybe for the more average player there might be a lot to do at launch but for a gen one raker like that's all you know like it's just like i just you know very very uh that's all i do like i just go rank for i hit 60 as fast as i can i rank for three months and i get grand marshal you know that's what a general gen one raker does they get two million honor a week and they don't sleep and all that stuff um i don't know for me personally it could go either way i don't really care either way um i think not having the honor system at the launch kind of helps to maybe maybe indirectly helps promote you doing more like fun type things more world pvp type stuff stuff like the the the hills brad mind that i was talking about stuff like that is it's more prevalent probably whenever there's no honor system because it's just you just go do things because you love to do those things whenever you have the honor system in you're adding in well here's another thing if you add in the honor system that means you're adding in the honor year earlier too that's something else i i didn't really think about till just now so if you have the honor year available earlier then now you're affecting i mean you could have ranked 14 gear in mc right yeah that that's my big problem with it that's my big problem people complain about vanilla raids being too easy and uh if you have i mean you could have an entire raid roster full of rank 14 melee dps by the time blacking layer comes out or by by month five or six when you're when you're farming molten core having having that much gear on your players by the time blacking layer comes out super super trivializes the content and you're right i think anytime uh as far as like balancing the game or catering the game to uh which demographic should you cater to the one percent or the 99 percent and i think it's probably better to cater to the 99 percent as as frustrating as that might be to the top no life players uh of which i am one yeah i agree and uh just to clarify real quick just i know there are a couple people that are new to vanilla here so basically when vanilla launched there was no honor system what do they mean by honor system a way to accrue honor and spend it on something to acquire ranks in vanilla the higher rank you get the more pvp gear you unlock for example so that should not be confused with the battlegrounds battlegrounds debuted about a month after the a month or two after the honor system launched in vanilla so i think what the question was is do you think that the honor system not the battle grounds just the honor system should be available at launch i personally agree with uh with my cohorts over here i don't think it should be and you know beyond just the reasons they describe the which i agree with all of them um the the very fact that the honor system launching is content and it's like an event and you know it's a lot cooler in my opinion to launch with you know the base features of vanilla obviously no changes but then when you create something like the the honor system launch date that's something to look forward to that's something to hype up that's something that you know two weeks beforehand we're all gonna be like in game like oh my god i can't wait till this comes in and i can't wait we're gonna start farming honor you know which exactly spread out the contents a little bit and uh you know ultimately i think that's going to be more enjoyable in the long term yeah i like that too like that too uh dzefi was asking um this is a pretty good one dzefi would you want classes to be balanced more towards the way they were in bernie crusade i am uh that's how the classes should have been at launch for classic uh i i don't know i'm assuming he means like like 1.12 tell players actually have the play style they choose rather than be stuck in a role they don't want to play i knew some worries and priests that played back in class they didn't want to tank or heal but they stayed on those tunes so i don't know if you're talking about if you're talking about actual burning crusade or like towards burning crusade as in 1.12 i don't think it should be like i i mean it just no changes right 1.1 to 1.12 keep it there vanilla's vanilla um but as far as like do you want 1.12 talents or do you want 1.1 talents my personal preference is that it could go either way i do think that if they decide to do the 1.12 talents which might honestly actually be best for the game is for them just to do the 1.12 talents um i wonder if you will say 1.12 talents they're not necessarily it's not so much the 1.12 patch that changed everything it's everything that changed leading up to the 1.12 patch so that means the you know druid reworked the mage reworked the rub weaker every single class got reworked warrior reworked in 1.6 paladin reworked in 1.9 all those things combined one of you say 1.12 patch so for me personally as a paladin player uh if you ask a lot of paladins back in the day a lot of them complained they said the 1.9 rework was actually a nerf because they spread out the holy tree they made the holy tree they made deep holy more healing as opposed to early holy and they took kings out of ret they put it in protection they made protection kind of a little bit more utility based ret they made the pve dps of ret better but they made a ret slightly less bursty so they did a bunch of little things there and for me personally knowing everything i know now and this kind of goes back to you should call back on what stays able to say in earlier like you wish that that you could delete your brain and go back and play vanilla naturally but for me just think about like if you had an opportunity in life to to go back 15 years knowing every single thing that you know now like and basically like i i don't know i think that would be unreal right everything that i've learned in the last 15 years and i knew it at 11 years old okay yes i'm i'm 26 second good and knew it at 11 years old and na math sorry na math uh if i knew everything i knew it and know at 26 at 11 years old then everything would be so easy right that's kind of the case with vanilla wow getting the opportunity to do that and uh i i don't know i i just think that uh i think that's just something that that's basically just what's on my mind i agree mm-hmm what was the question he was talking about uh he was talking about vanilla brands man unbelievable i had it i had it pasted and i think i cleared i think i cleared my clipboard it was talents it was uh oh yeah i was talking about how um yeah to me like it just whatever they decide they just have to stick with it that's basically what's been on my mind yeah i mean i did my frank and patricio a little while back but basically my rationale is when it comes to classes there were so many things at the beginning of the game that were clearly bugs but also clearly exploitative that weren't discovered until later on um i think that for blizzard to just go back to each patch and only fix the bugs is not enough to fix a lot of the exploitative and broken behavior of the classes and for them to have to go back look at each class during each patch and determine you know which of the abilities were causing exploits or unintended behavior unintended consequences versus which ones were actually bugs and to do that on a patch by patch basis i mean it sounds like it would be a lot of work uh and a lot of testing would be required so i don't honestly expect them to do that and on top of that i feel like if they're going back to fix each you know individual patch talents and just fix the exploitative abilities at that point it's like they're not even preserving the true you know 1.1 to 112 progression anyways when it comes to classes because they're already messing with some stuff yeah so the way i see it it seems like a very valiant effort in an ideal world i would want it but it doesn't seem like it's worth it to not even completely preserve the 1.1 progression although i know stay safe disagrees it's just my point of view yeah i mean i have like a selfish desire and then i have a desire for what's what i think is best and what will probably happen for classic wow personally if i could just like go back and relive vanilla wow as it as it played out and and have all the quirks and the weird things the intricacies and the the exploit the exploitative behavior you said like i wish i could relive it all i wish i could relive it all i would like that again now do i think that's what's best for the success of classic wow no do i expect that no like i actually kind of hope we don't get that because i think that would turn off a lot of players like i acknowledged that but that's my selfish desire i want to relive it i want all the weird stuff yeah i think um this is something else that i was gonna mention is how um how if they decide to do the 1.12 talents right let's say this i do the 1.12 talents off the bat and i touched on this in in the allcraft too if they do that then i think it opens the door for doing like tuning of the early content to account for people just doing more damage from how they how they read the talents because i do think like you were talking about how the honor system being implemented from the beginning helps to or attributes to trivializing the content by having like rank 14 gear like everybody has ranked 14 gear by the time bwls on the top guild like they literally people what what guilds will do is they will do like a uh they'll rate two nights a week every two weeks around the reset so they respect pvp and then grind honor and then they'll go back rate two nights respect back for pvp and then do another two weeks of honor grinding and then two nights of raiding that's what the top guilds do and um yeah i mean if you have the honor gear available at the launch you're gonna have that if you have 1.12 counts available at launch you're gonna have a lot of that too where it's it's just easier so if they're doing that and making it easier indirectly i think they need to probably go back and tune the content a little bit otherwise it's going to be the same thing as what people have seen on private servers and you're getting like freaking 25 minute mc clears you know on speed runs exactly i definitely think you know like you brought it before as fan regarding the beta that's definitely something that needs to be tested during the beta like just you have to like period yeah uh zoo zoo asks a question here if you all have to play one class other than your main paladin warrior and warlock what would that be rogue really rogue really i think i've been playing so much lesion i've gotten used to combo points what about your tips um you know i would have normally said warlock believe it or not but uh but recently i've come across a couple of feral druid videos by final flash and stormling and uh when i watched those feral pvp videos dude those things are freaking legit man and i'm not gonna lie i got to the point the other day on stream where i was like maybe i should really drew it like that's how crazy it was it looked really really fun you should talk to sarin dippies isn't she he's the best feral druid i know i rated with really really good sarin dippies hell yeah he's really he's really awesome awesome um my my second go-to is holy pelly i would play holy pelly after warlock play holy pelly and i would never go ret not even once i would go ret me neither surrounded by paladins so speaking of holy and ret uh vendalia was asking i heard rumors that only one viable spec was available in vanilla should they keep that should they make it no changes should they make uh more viable specs uh again kind of touching on on the last question too with that like no changes but that's a big misconception are you talking about viable or are you talking about optimal because they mean two different things um viable like can you play ret in in raids yes are you gonna do as much damage as a furor warrior no are you gonna do as much damage as a rogue no but as far as like is it doable can you clear the content yes is it fun yes do you have to do you have to do extra to pull your weight yes that's something else you can't just go in there and just do whatever you want and expect to be worth taking right people gotta like you that's one because you're not gonna want to raid with anybody who is a turd especially if like they're not uh like i mean if somebody's a turd and they're like your top dps you're like okay i can deal with them a little bit but if somebody's like middle of the pack or worse and you just have a bad attitude and stuff it's not good and then two if you're not putting in all the effort and everything else showing up on time doing doing your thing it's also not good um yeah i think that's a big misconception viability versus versus what's optimal yeah and i mean viability and vanilla wow has different there's pvp viability some specs are p are really good in pvp and not good in pve and so for example like uh elemental shaman if you were to try to tweak elemental shaman to make it balanced in uh in pve its main problem is like mana management right if you go um really quick same with boomkin these specs are really pretty good in pvp so it'd be very difficult to balance that the damage is there but the mana isn't um and then there are like warlocks for example in uh molten core blackwing lair even into aq a little bit whose dps is really not like in molten core warlocks might be the worst dps in molten core like worse than feral druids probably worse than boot maybe even worse than rent paladins like the warlocks are terrible but they earn their spots uh they're viable in a different way they're not there because of their dps they're there because of their curses their banishes their summoning their health stones their soul stones like ban banishes primarily so people are viable for different reasons in different scenarios it's not just i have high dps that's why i'm here people are people are in the raid for different reasons and that's why different things are valuable at different times i agree uh mclochlyn what vanilla zone gives you the most nostalgia i think that's interesting i kind of want to hear this from you guys what's what's a what's a nostalgic vanilla zone for you guys oh it's so hard to argue against elwin but uh yeah but honestly like for whatever reason when i get to tenaris i really like tenaris and you just i don't know i feel like it brings back a lot of memories i guess right yeah elwin is up there i was always a gnome player though and i'm kind of like a snow kind of way in real life as well i play a gnome winterspring and dun maro uh they had the same soundtrack like the snow zone soundtrack it's just like peaceful and everything's best zone it's two best zones right there yeah i i think elwin is a really good one for me um westfall is pretty nostalgic as well westfall is pretty nostalgic and i know i shouldn't level there but i always remember leveling up and all getting to 13 running out of quest and then i'll play this guy later then i'll play the guy later just go back to my main so so yeah westfalls are pretty good one for me elwin and westfall for sure for sure uh tasla chubb asks what's your biggest tip to vanilla noobs um biggest tip to vanilla noobs i would say as far as a tip goes you gotta you gotta appreciate the small wins you gotta appreciate the small wins because because in vanilla wow you don't have it's it's it's a grind yes i get that but it's it's a series of small wins as you're leveling you level you get one talent point you get to put that talent point in you want to appreciate that you want to you want to take everything in step by step in legion in the current game and you can't even get a talent point until 15 levels right it's every 15 levels you got talent and it's just not it doesn't feel good and you want to take that good feeling that you get from dude i got my freaking i'm a i'm a paladin i'm a warrior i wear male gear but i got some cloth gray shoulders i'm super excited because i actually have something to put there i got a cloth helmet i'm super excited rogues get the defiance mask that doesn't give you any stats but like man i look freaking sweet with this mask on like stuff like that it's a bunch of little like small wins right so i think vanilla is all about small wins and and just to really take that and appreciate that you know just just embrace the grind and take the small wins i really like that that's that's great advice and i guess mine is kind of an extension of that this is going to sound super corny uh but just like have fun i would say probably the biggest difference what not the biggest one of the big one of the big differences in mindsets between if you're a retail player and you're going into vanilla wow for the first time in retail vanilla sorry in retail leveling is considered a chore and tedious and it's just like a time gate something you have to just do and get through and you hate every second of it and then you and then you're 110 you can finally you can finally uh i can finally play the game right in vanilla wow leveling is part of the game it's full of small wins it's formative uh you can start getting your pre-raid best in slot in your mid 40s you can start doing your attunements in your 50s um like leveling i would say go into leveling with an open mindset and try to have fun with it because you're gonna if you're new to the game you're gonna spend a lot of time leveling it's gonna take you a while probably so try to try to have fun with it for real i agree enjoy the journey i know that in retail uh the game you know pushes you and it keeps shoving you towards the end and it's trying to get you into raids and stuff like that vanilla there's nothing pushing you there's nothing you know there's no sense of urgency take your time enjoy the journey enjoy the leveling um and be as patient as you can possibly be if you can do that you're gonna enjoy it a lot i think yeah for sure i like this question from donnie dixon because i'm i'm pretty passionate about this one um what's going to keep classic relevant beyond the grind factor and the nostalgia factor do you think that re-releasing the game is a pitfall and uh i think absolutely not i think the design of this game is so incredibly good and i think a lot of it is intentional and i think some of it was on accident but i do think a lot of it was intentional and what happened a lot of people say like blizzard doesn't listen to its player base and i would say the opposite i think that blizzard sometimes listens too much to its player base and it kind of screwed up the game that way it's like oh like everything looks good like on paper and then they do it and then in hindsight like oh that sucked that was a really bad idea for the game um now there are like recent things that have happened like you know there's a big push for solo queue in the pvp community and they're probably not going to do that and that's like oh like blizzard doesn't listen and i'm one of those guys like i think solo queue would be great for the retail version of the game but uh just given that that's how the game has gone but uh i think the design of the game is so good and people are so hungry for a good mmo that's got that kind of more old school feel the grind the the uh rpg elements to the game like people were excited for bless i remember looking at bless and i was like dude this game is gonna suck it was number two on twitch on release when i saw that you're right when i saw that bless is number two on twitch my first thought is your tweet classic classic why i was taking this platform down like it's gonna crash the site mark my word yeah yeah yeah people are starving for that new mmo experience and uh and i totally agree with us van you know vanilla's gameplay is so timeless it's just like basketball or chess or you know poker any card game it just endures and it lasts for so much longer and um in the event let's you know just i'll entertain the whoever asked the question in the event that you know after one year two years when nexus on farm whatever um and people are looking for new content aside from the the obvious tbc route that could happen or the patch 1.13 that could happen i just think rolling fresh servers is a is a very it's another very viable alternative yeah people are gonna play i mean again it goes back to you know when you observe the the private server community i'm not endorsing private servers but when you observe that community and you see you know some of the things that they're doing right it seems like the fresh server hype thing is actually you know it's a viable form of content and sometimes people want to start all over again they they want to experience the journey from 1 to 60 again with with a completely congested zone and with their friends again maybe they want to roll a different faction or a different class play the game differently i think that i'm you know i'm loading these these um you know extra packets of servers as time goes on i think is also you know it's going to prolong the game's longevity i don't think longevity for classic should be a concern at all personally yeah i think it's gonna be good go ahead yeah i mean like my idea or my sorry not my idea my ideal timeline would be two years vanilla and then after that first classic wow vanilla server has ran its course they open another vanilla server and on top of that they open a tbc server and that last two years and then you have another a third vanilla server and a second tbc server and then a wrath server and uh people people say that's bad to split the community like uh i don't really think i think it's fine i don't think that's much of an issue i mean really worst-case scenario as long as you have one healthy vanilla server that's all you need like because because each vanilla server is so isolated and there's no cross realm or cross anything um it it really like really big picture doesn't matter if there are 50 pop and vanilla servers or if there's one pop and vanilla server uh as far as your as your as far as your individual player experience is concerned yeah i think uh oh we lost two tips no snap oh see you later tips we lost him bye all right there he is hello hello he's back okay uh sorry so so one of the things is um oh you're uh oh okay okay we're good all right we're good so so what um what what what's something the way things work out sorry words english the way things work out oftentimes and this is a question that uh oh i just lost it or civics oh what should people do after they cleared next civics too was asking so it's not like for some people they just want to kill kt and they're done and i don't uh i don't quite understand that because just because you killed am i still quiet you're allowed to me i'm allowed to you okay anyway uh yeah so so if um once they cleared kt some people are just done but in my opinion like there's there's so much to accomplish like as far as like building your character getting your gear finishing it out um that's how i feel personally uh but other people they just like okay i'm done i want to go re-roll fresh i want to go do something like that i think that i think that they whenever they release a new server again we're looking a little bit down the road i understand that but if they release a new server after uh classic has run its course or whatever it needs to be on the same or a similar timeline uh that occurred originally i think it was i think it was june 2006 whenever naks hit and i think the 2.0 patch hit uh mid or early december of that year so that's about that's five months six months uh for bc bc hit about six months later so you give it about six months after the naks patch hits i think that's ample time to give people an opportunity to clear naks um it wasn't originally but i think with everything people know now and and just how i think the the players have just gotten better i think gamers have gotten better so i think six months is ample time for for clearing naks and at least getting through that content and then if they want to re-roll fresh and a lot of people talk about seasons like diablo it's re-rolling fresh would essentially be uh the same or similar thing for seasons from what i understand i haven't played diablo but uh but yeah that's that's what i think i think that's fine just give it like six months after naks releases yeah elite gamer has it yeah sorry i was going to say elite gamer i've seen this question a lot should world buffs be allowed uh for raids honestly uh world buffs operate kind of uh as far as i know but i'm 99 percent sure world buffs operate a little bit strangely on private servers for example uh i believe back in vanilla you couldn't have 40 people click on a songflower at the same time i think it was only you could only have one person get the buff from one songflower so that would sort of uh lessen the effect of world buffs only having one person get it um as far as the other ones though like they're in the game i i think if you want to min max that hard uh then you should be open to min max yeah just play the game the way you want to play it yeah exactly and there's something really cool about like the feeling of powering up before a raid like getting those yeah it's like it's like when goku goes super san three you know what i'm saying it's like it's that long screen before the raid you're charging up you're getting your ony buff you're getting your uh you know your your uh zg buff and so on and so forth it just again the dire mall buffs it makes you feel like you're getting progressively stronger and then you just like unload in the raid it feels really really good yeah i think uh one thing that's interesting is a lot of the top level players a lot of the top level players like we're like world first server first type of guys actually hate world buffs they they don't want world buffs in the game actually from what i've heard because i'm i know a lot of guys in that community they they actually want a lot of like oh they should do this they should do that but it's because of what we talked about earlier was do you want to cater to the 1% or the 99% and a lot of the 1% they don't like world buffs because if something crazy happens and they die then they they lose their parts for the week and they're trying to push meters they're trying to do this so they just hate world buffs all together me personally i love world buffs i think they're fun i think it's i think it's cool i know for me personally like i'm a class i play they're very beneficial just because i'm a hybrid and i get benefit from the cast for stats and the melee stats but i mean it is what it is right so yeah yeah i i like world buffs i don't think they should change anything like that regardless but i do think it's interesting that the very the the high end community many people in it do not like world buffs i just thought it was funny yeah yeah i mean i see people saying only the 1% use them anyway i i think they're this might sound kind of harsh there are a lot of like lower end guilds that might not see some some content without world buffs it helps it helps a lot of sort of casual guilds see the content in the first place world buffs are hugely beneficial i know a lot of a lot of like most guilds i think get get maybe not all of them but a lot of people get a lot of the buffs in in lower guilds as well oh kind of a follow up i want to answer sevens question again because i think it's pretty good follow up to it is like understand that i want to believe that you want to build a character but what if you've gotten ranked 14 and killed keltizod what left is there so like i mean it's just getting getting like fully best in slot that's something i want to do like i want to get everything that i can get um and just dominate in pvp that's what i would want to do but i do think that's a good point too i mean like for somebody like you like you might kill keltizod and you might want to quit like i like i that's fine that's just how people want to play like like says it's a play the game the way you want to play it right i completely agree and um i think for the vast majority of people you know it's easy to say get ranked 14 kill keltizod but uh you know it takes a long time to get there like it's not something that's going to happen overnight and the vast majority of people even after 14 years they're never going to kill keltizod they're never going to get full tier through vis they're always going to have that carrot on the stick and um and there's always you know there's always rolling on a different class or a different faction you know there's so many different things so many different challenges to create but i definitely think that what's really going to help vanilla last and classic really you know endure the test of time is the community events that are going to spawn once the game launches you're going to get a lot of you know tournaments pvp tournaments dueling tournaments things like oh let's all go raid you know terran mill or something like that that's really what's going to give the game life and once you're in vanilla and once you're you know kind of enraptured by the commute by that community it's going to be very hard to leave because at the end of the day even though the gameplay content is done community content never ends you're always going to have those people there you're always going to have those experiences with your friends that lasts forever yeah sorry stay safe do you want to say something about that because i i just talked about it uh no no go ahead i actually i was reading something sorry i was checking something um i actually think like the community stuff is that it's there it's true but i i do think and this is something that that i've talked about in the past blizzard is a company they they want to make a profit and i think uh they do hit a point where they'll if they don't do something then it'll let the game die and they won't they don't want to let their game die excuse me it'll make the game die and they don't want to let their game die because at the end of the day like making your own content can only go so far that's a lot of what we're seeing in legion i mean you look at the top legion streams whether it's like uh you know like for example two people take aspen gold and and any fuchsia for example they're doing all the things they're trying to collect everything that's what stay safe doing is trying to collect everything this is uh making your own content in a sense and and just it's it's having a fun stream environment personality stream and i think that's great i think that's that's awesome that that you're able to do that that you have that option but whenever you have to make your own content from a from a player standpoint as opposed to from a from a having the option to do that as a streamer i think it's two different things and you shouldn't be forced to create your own content in order to play the game and i think that that's where you know fresh or even post nax content we're talking 1.13 and so on comes in uh which is why i mean that on top of the fact that osrs was so successful after they they released uh progressive content i think that's why they'll probably release post nax content yeah i do think i think you're right i agree with what you said um i also think that i can you guys think of a game i can't think of any game that that rewards and incentivizes community interaction uh more than vanilla well i can't think of a single game no single one i can't think of one and for me for most people you ask i mean uh the content is great right rating is just fine ranking is fine people who's fine it's all fine uh but the big attraction for a lot of people that has kept people playing vanilla wow on undocumented service for the last eight years or whatever they've just been replaying it over and over and over again it's because of uh because of every day you log in there's new drama there's new rivalries there's new friendships there's new there's every time you replay through it it changes every single time and there's something to do every day i agree that's the big draw for a lot of people i think that that's my favorite thing is is playing and hanging out with other people yeah absolutely i mean i i know like i can for me like my my i i'll tell you the story so i remember the first time i got the name ret bull that was like that when i whenever i got the nickname ret bull and it was after i released my my video of me like doing on the first at the time sanctum raid three raid this is on my youtube channel and uh it's still up there by the way it's rep palette number one raid dps where i mean it was a crap raid like it was the video supposed to be like kind of funny tongue and cheek but i ended up being top damage after lucifer on and we didn't kill anything faster from like it sucked we were sanctum raid three eventually spun off into into what became my guild eventually um i remember i posted that video and it was on the top of the lights hope reddit and uh i people were like just like literally orbiting me like running in circles around me in iron forge and it was a lot of mandate guys and already is like the ret bull the ret bull and like it was just like the thing that just kind of became a meme so that's whenever i started drinking like or doing the ret bull thing on stream and all this stuff um i don't know yeah should we get on stream bro no i uh i started on the ret bull stream and and it's like stuff like that happens to the community and uh like i mean those guys are awesome like i mean it's it's fun you know i can go on the iron forge bridge and you can see the same people there every single day just like bs-ing like i would go up to manlet and i would just slash neil in front of him and call him the mighty gnome king because he's exactly in the center of the bridge on the right side facing out for the bank and i just go the mighty gnome king and then he would just hand me like six stacks of water every single time like it's just like you have those sort of interactions and it's it's kind of uh it's endearing it's cool like i don't know i i really miss that what's your guy's uh favorite and least favorite dungeon in vanilla wow um honestly first of all i feel like with this with this question especially favorite dungeons you can't ask yeah i mean you have to exclude brd because that's it's such a giveaway and like it's like asking who's the greatest basketball player it's not fun when you include michael jordan so it's like excluding brd i would say my favorite rate ever is zulfarach i think it's perfectly designed i think it's got a great balance of events hard bosses secret epic gear um you know there's so many different things the jentha allure you know sacred mallet retrieval there's so much about it that's just so perfectly designed that freaking helms deep like that event with uh the the divinomatic rod event like it's just it's incredible everything about it least favorite dungeon and i got a lot of flak for saying this one i mean my video about it like a long time ago nomer gone not because of the dungeon itself but because of its leveling position it like it's a great dungeon it's cumbersome yeah like especially at level 30 and right before like what's arguably one of the easiest dungeons in the games the scarlet monastery wings that reward a lot better gear for the most part except for like you know particular classes it's just such a like a i don't want to say difficult but it's definitely such a cumbersome dungeon considering it's a level 30 dungeon and when you can wait like two or three more levels to get into sm i feel like it's just too much for that level and as a result very few people do it it's long too yeah hard yeah um the i mean i can tell you like about nomer again the last stretch going to the last boss there's like that that tunnel that leads to it that tunnel for its level i think is the hardest tunnel or the hardest portion of an instance for its level out of any other instance i don't know how many times the mines i sometimes they bug out and this stuff but like the the mobs themselves are for some reason way like that's way harder the trash packs are way harder than the last boss yeah yeah nomer again nomer again's a pain uh so that's a good one um yeah nomer again is pretty bad maradon is cool but also very cumbersome but at least it's cool uh yeah i would i would be i think nomer again's a good answer for worst for favorite ubrs is really awesome um ubrs is really awesome just like the whole like here's the thing with brd i actually don't i would not even including brd i wouldn't say brd is my favorite even though i have like a big appreciation for brd because it's so it's huge it's expansive there's a lot of awesome stuff in there you got the anvil you have the forge you have mc attunement you have a nixie attunement but i wouldn't say that's my personal favorite and i'm leaning towards oh or or strathun dead baron baron side strathun is is also really good ubrs or baron side strathun are probably my two favorites i would say it's hard to say yeah i like ubrs a lot yeah i think the worst yeah black rock devs and ubrs is upper black rock spire you guys are all gonna have to run upper black rock spire a lot so i hope you like it everyone else to do that uh for rated tunements and for gear and everyone needs gear from there um i think my least favorite is probably dead mines i hate i've always hated dead mines because everyone everyone's a noob um people try to go in there too early runs are always bad the graveyard is super far away uh you you're gonna die because everyone's toolkit is so limited yeah um it's easy to pull too many people typically if your group wipes uh people tend to just leave the leave the group and it's just done um now best you guys have it i'm surprised you guys didn't mention this also but i'm gonna i'm gonna say this if you're trying to level quickly and like and uh if you're trying to level quickly and play efficiently dead mines is a noob trap you're in it's a noob trap it really is actually actually the entire zone of west falls a noob trap uh but anyway the best dungeon in the game the best dungeon is the game in the game is a mordom do you guys remember going through mordom the first time and you enter uh the earth song falls and you look up in the sky and it's just like it's just crazy i didn't know i didn't know a dungeon could look that good and then you fight through the caves and you go you come out uh into the grotto leading into princess mordom and you're fighting across that bridge and you're seeing princess mordom in the skies like there and there's the the water running down and then and there's the vines dangling down that's like the coolest looking dungeon that's the coolest looking thing in vanilla wow it's really cool i just think mordom's very cumbersome to me too though like not as bad as nomergen but it's very cumbersome like just getting there is is really annoying um but it's a really cool dungeon on its own this freaking centaurs that's done you outside of desolus super yeah yeah it takes a freaking half an hour to get in yeah exactly but i like i mean i think mordom's really cool like uh thematically absolutely and there's a lot of good gear in there too um i do agree i like it honestly i think it's cool um let's do let's do one more question we're gonna do one more question and then we'll uh we'll call it a day after uh after this question i i'm gonna keep the stream on and i'm gonna continue to stream i'm going to uh i'll stream some wow for a little bit probably but i also want to play some dark age of camo if you guys have been following my stuff lately i've been playing a little bit of dark age of camo so uh it's another old school mmo it's the mmo i played before vanilla wow so if you guys are interested in watching some of that we'll play some dayok we'll play some we'll play some retail wow and then go play some dayok probably and then uh we'll have a good time it'll be it'll be good stuff so one last question uh let's see i'm like chat keeps freaking out let's see do you guys see one that you like oh can you define us what is the best um are we going to do another question after this question uh nope thanks uh show's over bye let's let's do this one from mclaughlin let's do this from mclaughlin you think it would be a good idea to make totally new realm names to potentially avoid players recreating old realm populations from back in the day um i i don't think so i don't think that's gonna be a problem i think uh that's such a gargantuan effort to locate everybody that was on a server back in the day and and get them involved i don't think that's going to be an issue i actually think it'd be really cool if they recreated the same realm names um i definitely think there's a nostalgia factor there yeah but uh but even if they created new ones i just i'm indifferent to it honestly yeah i think there's there's two parts to this i think you're right tips that like i think it would be cool but also the the confusion that comes from i mean you already have like for example illidan us and illidan e you right yeah so you're gonna have illidan us classic illidan e you classic so maybe they are gonna make all new realm names maybe they're gonna maybe the server names are gonna be new all together that's i mean i don't know i i think i think it would be something cool to do but i'm thinking about it logistically is that something they would want to do like illidan us classic illidan e you classic illidan us illidan e you like now you've got like four different variations of illidan for example yeah it's complicated yeah that sounds cumbersome i would imagine different realm names this is something that i don't actually didn't see anyone ask but i see people i i think people are worried about this and i see people talk about this all the time on forums and in my chat you guys probably have heard this as well the concern that you will pick a server and play on it and then your server will die after three months and you'll have invested all this time in a server and it'll be dead you won't be able to do anything and how how to properly pick a server well i guess like do you guys have any advice for this before i get into it i kind of want to hear what you had to say actually yeah i mean i would say first off i don't think it's going to happen i don't think we're gonna have like mass server die off early on in vanilla wow or sorry classic wow two i guess if you really really want to stay safe oh god uh if you really want to make a good decision uh yeah okay if you really want to make a good decision i would say nice all art i would pick a server that has like a like maybe a very good guild or a very active guild on it i would pick a server that has like a very active popular streamer or several streamers like for example our server we as far as i know we're all going to play on the same server and there will be some other people that play with us as well um that server i'm not concerned about dying off i agree that's what i would say and and try to pick a server like one of the reasons why i'm really liking our server like is not only because you know we have a couple of streamers playing on it but we have streamers that are willing to play on both factions which is the most important part i love soda pop and i love asma gold but realistically rolling on their server it's probably going to be 80 or 90 percent whatever faction they choose assuming that you know they're able to to get everybody in there that wants to play with them um definitely try to play on a server that's going to have an active community but also has some kind of you know preemptive you know faction balancing going on i think that's going to create the best experience possible just a preference but that's what i would do yeah i think uh i actually you know what's funny about soda i don't know i think you might be playing pvp actually there's a chance it might be playing pvp yeah i heard that too interesting enough yeah so it'll be it'll it'll be cool uh it'll be cool seeing how all this stuff plays out um i think we're gonna i think we're gonna call it a i'm gonna keep the stream on i'm gonna continue to stream like i said i'll play some while i'll play some dark age you came on please please please follow tips tips out baby on twitter youtube twitch all that stuff is right there stay safe as well stay safe tv on twitch and youtube and stay safe warlock on twitter and then myself there's the s-fan tv discord youtube twitter all that stuff if you haven't already hit my channel to follow please hit my channel to follow uh i'm going to take i'm going to take a a quick bathroom break and uh and then i'll keep the stream going for for anybody who wants to stay and hang out and chat a little bit more yeah guys uh thank you for watching and uh i guess uh that's that's it yeah take it easy guys i'm gonna dip out have a good rest of your day okay sounds good all right tapes out baby