 We're back. We're back after like a couple of months' absence. We missed you guys. We did. We totally missed you guys. I missed you too. I know. I missed you too. Yeah, I did it. Oh, did you do it? I did it. Oh, is it not? It's not mirrored, is it? No. It is mirrored. You got it, right? Yeah. Anybody who watches these are like, oh, they're going to do three minutes on pointing again. Really? Guys, come on. Let's just get to the goods. Yeah. Welcome back, everybody. On screen with me is my friend and a fabulous therapist from LA, Lauren Rosen. Lauren. That's me. I am well. How are you? Good. And if you're joining from any of my sites, this is the fabulous Drulan Salata. He does it all. We were actually just talking about this, but he writes, and he has two podcasts now. So check those out. And lots of work on social media. And also in training to become a clinician, which is pretty awesome. Yeah. I need a break. Yeah. No kidding. Somebody asked me, are you going to IOCDF? I'm like, I ain't going nowhere. I'm going to IOCDF for them until December. I really do wish you would come to IOCDF some of those. That would be a really funny thing. The one in 2024, it's here in New York. So I'll definitely. Oh, is it? No. Then there you go. Or when 2025, it's like in two or three years. Whenever. Sometimes. Anyway, for those of you who have not seen these videos before, Lauren and I, and usually lately, we've been joined by Kelly Frankie, but Kelly is under the weather today. So she'll be back in the next one, I'm sure. Get together for 20, 30 minutes and just kick around a topic. And today we're talking about social anxiety. Here we go. Social anxiety. It's a doozy. It is a doozy. I think the social anxiety to me, those are kind of the folks that are on, sometimes on the periphery of this community a little bit. Yeah. They are. Yes, it's in the anxiety disorders, if you want to look it up in the manual. It has, it's a weird anxiety disorder. Not weird. It's just to me, it has different facets. So yeah. Yeah. Not like weird, like we're judging you, but like it's a wrong. No, no. But like each of them have their own sort of special cluster of of symptoms and, you know, like an expressions. But I see, I mean, I don't know about you, but I think actually social anxiety is far more prolific than people are led to believe because we hear social anxiety and we immediately think this is about being really shy. Or yeah. And I have found that there are people who are very, who put themselves out there a lot, but who are constantly anxious that other people are judging them and doing all sorts of behaviors to try to manage and control how they're perceived by others and to try to figure out and read rooms, which is exhausting. Yeah. Oh God, I cannot even imagine the effort that must go into that. Right. Yeah. Talking to people with social anxiety, the aftermath of social interaction also seems absolutely exhausting. That reconstant replaying and analyzing and. Yeah. Absolutely. It's very difficult. Yeah. It's like a social situation that maybe lasts a couple of hours, ends up taking a ton of time on the front end because you're sort of rehearsing for this event and trying to play through all the situations that might happen potentially or even go back and think about past events. And we've maybe interacted with this person, trying to remember, oh, how did I say this? And then on the other side, it's this constant mental review. So a two hour event could take days. Yeah. And a lot of energy. But I love how you pointed out that I think it is sort of the public perception of social anxiety is immediately tied to shyness. Yeah. Like, yeah, it is to a certain extent. But it's way beyond just shyness. Yes. It's not to be shy. A lot of people are shy. Do not have social anxiety. It's absolutely. And that's a really good point, too, is that many people are just sort of introverted and don't care to be and don't get their energy from speaking to other people or being in like large social gatherings. In fact, so I think we look at social anxiety and we look at the safety behaviors involved in it. We could kind of compare that to other anxiety disorders, health anxiety, which not technically classified as an anxiety disorder, but whatever. OCD, again, same thing. You can look at the fact that some people will avoid. Some people will avoid at all costs across any of these disorders. Like, I'm going to avoid going to the doctor. I'm going to avoid getting in the car because I'm afraid I'm going to hit somebody or we're looking at panic disorder. I'm going to avoid going into this situation because that's going to create a panic attack. Agoraphobia, I'm going to not go outside. But there are, within all of those spheres, people who do the things that scare them and then just follow it up with a bunch of, so somebody with health anxiety might go to the doctor and then follow up with a ton of calls back or OCD might drive, but then have to turn around and check to make sure they didn't hit anyone. You don't have to be that sure. Sure, so there's either avoidance or there's excessive ritualization and sort of proceduralization. I think I used that word up. I'm not sure. Yeah, I'll do the things I'm afraid of, but I'm going to just pack conditions all around them. Exactly, exactly. And so that's why I think when we're, it's funny because I think in the other disorders, oftentimes people talk about exposure therapy and don't include the element of response prevention in the discussion, even what we were talking about before we started recording PTSD, right? PTSD used to be classified as an anxiety disorder in the DSM-4. It's not anymore. Prolonged exposure is the treatment of choice for, well, there are several others as well now that are evidence-based, but it also includes looking at those safety behaviors, but it's not sort of part of the discussion broadly as much as it is within the realm of OCD where you're talking about exposure and response prevention. And I only say that because if avoidance is the issue, then exposure therapy is fabulous. Yeah. If avoidance is not the issue, you're already doing the exposures. We just need to work on the response prevention or the reduction of safety behaviors. Yeah, that's 100% true. All exposure is ERP in the end. Yes. That's my view, all of it. I agree. If you haven't done any exposure, then you gotta start with the E and make sure you do the RP. If you're already doing the E, then you gotta do the RP part, which is the part you're missing. Yes. Yeah, I'm with you on that. One of the fascinating things about social anxiety that when I said, you know, I use the word weird, I shouldn't have used, but that makes it a little bit unique is I think in a lot of the other disorders, we look at and say, well, those fears are certainly feel real. It's real fear, it's built as comfort, it's real, all those things. But the rationality is a little bit off the scale. You know, we're not being really rational. Whereas what I've discovered about social anxiety, and I'm grateful for the people who have taught me this, a lot of people who suffer with social anxiety, oh no, no, no, there really is a problem here. It's not always just don't judge me. Sometimes it's literally don't see me because I am in fact broken. Yeah, which to me adds that other layer of like, okay, but on social anxiety, not everything is an exposure problem, sometimes depending on how you see yourself, I think. Absolutely, and sometimes you don't necessarily, you've never learned the social skills of, you know, reaching out to people, reciprocity and conversation, a lot of people I find with social anxiety, they don't ask a lot of questions in dialogue. And so, which you can see is sort of self-perpetuating that if you're talking to somebody and they're doing the lion's share of the asking, there's gonna be a lot of dead space, which is gonna cause more anxiety, which is probably gonna leave the person, leave the person to withdraw more. So you're absolutely right about that. Like sometimes there's the education of like, how do we socialize? And I was gonna say something else, but it escapes. So make sure. I didn't have to give full credit. I did a podcast episode a couple of years ago on social anxiety. I don't know if Sadie is still active on social media. She was your social anxiety bestie. I don't know if you ever went into her. Lovely, lovely person. And she taught me a lot about her experience, which was, yeah, she had to do all the exposure, the ERP stuff, really hard, crazy stuff, like walking through the hospital and group therapy, wearing funny clown shoes and like all the silly stuff that you hear with social anxiety. Yeah. But there was also a fair amount of other types of therapy too, because to her, she was just, like when she was in, she told a great story about being in with, I guess an exposure therapist or behavioral therapist, just waiting for that person to discover that she was in fact a horrible person. Like, yeah, all this mechanical exposure is really great, but I'm just any minute she's gonna find me out. So she came into it with this self image of like, no, no, no, don't, it's not about being judged. I'm already judging myself really harshly. I just don't want you to do too. So that was interesting. And I think that adds maybe a dimension in social anxiety that we, isn't usual in some of the other stuff like OCD and panic disorder, we wouldn't go there. Yeah. But I think we have to at least acknowledge that. For sure. And I wonder too though, how much of that is, will be addressed, sort of tangentially through response prevention. Because how much of that I suck, like there's a belief that, but the expression of that belief is this constant churning about how awful you are. Yes. And so if you stop, if you take that away, that belief is going to be worked on. Now there may be other things to do, but I think of the work of Brené Brown and so much of the work is in practicing vulnerability. Yeah. You don't get to eradicate shame without actually putting yourself out there. So it's a little bit of a couple of me too. I agree. And I think they do fit together because I would agree. Like if you're going to start to do like traditional type exposure work for social anxiety, because oh, it's an anxiety disorder, it's going to uncover that stuff pretty quick, I think. Yes, yeah, absolutely. And then having an awareness, this is I think the sort of cognitive piece of it is having an awareness of these beliefs that get triggered so that you don't capitulate to behaviors, mental or otherwise, that might otherwise sort of keep you in the cycle. Yeah, I agree. In that situation, if there is, so maybe some of that fear is based on like, unfortunately people have been subjected to some really crappy things in their lives. Maybe they were taught that they suck. People that were important to them, which is terrible. But in the end, gaining that awareness is super important and you're going to have to talk through some of those things and then experience those negative emotions. But in the end, you're still going to wind up in an exposure type situation. But I guess that's why you and I do what we do because we're going to wind up there every time. Like, okay, yeah, you're going to have to suck in a crowded group of people to know that even if you do, you'll figure that out. You'll handle it. You'll come to it. Yeah, very uncomfortable. But I think to your point as well, because of the sort of nature of this anxiety being oftentimes more rooted in some sort of reality, that you, to your point, what we were just saying is like, even if you go into the situation and you are judged, part of it is learning how to deal with that. And the reality is people suck, you know? Lots of them do anyway. So they are going to judge you. And I think it's accepting uncertainty about whether or not a specific person is judging you in any given moment because yeah, people are going to think things about you that you don't want them to think about you. Sure. And sometimes, I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I think you and I could share a common experience. So in this thing that we do, like the social media thing, I know I've been there, you've been there. So we get trolled, right? There's some dude that loves to troll the mental health accounts, okay, fine, whatever. So I know that person that said really nasty things to you, that person that tries to find things that are going to rile me up and things will bother me. I don't know anybody who has more confidence than me, almost to a fault, but even then, you'll think about it for a second. So when that person says nasty things to you, well, you're trying to do a live stream. You know, human beings, we're going to think a little bit for a second about what that person just said. Wait, am I that? Yeah. So imagine being a person with social anxiety that must hit like a ton of bricks, but they're all this full of crap people, like you said, that are going to judge you no matter what. Yeah. So even people that are very confident in themselves get judged every day. Not fair. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's such a stup point that you bring up because we are both in that situation where an even troll aside that being sort of in some sort of like a public role, you invite criticism. Judgment. Absolutely. Which may be about the person, maybe about you, right? And it may be about the rightness of fit. I mean, Kelly and I, we've had a lot of people review our podcast and say, OCD is not funny. And well, I totally agree with that. OCD is not funny. That part of what we try to bring to the table is levity. And if somebody just doesn't gel with that, they're going to have an opinion, which is not my favorite, but learning how to be with that is so crucial because there are, I know there are lots of people who reach out who say the way that you approach this is really, really helpful to me. So it's not going to be for everyone. And if I'm not willing to be judged by some then I'm not going to maybe be able to support others. Yeah. And I think for people that are dealing with SA or social anxiety, you don't have to be in a public role. This is just day to day living. Exactly. And facing that thing where like, somebody's going to have an opinion about me. And if I come into it with a terrible opinion about myself that gets even harder, but you're learning to work through these negative experiences. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And whereas perhaps on some level, if you're in a more public position, you're getting like written reviews or people trolling or whatever, somebody with social anxiety is oftentimes constantly scanning their environment for any sort of signal that they could read into that's somehow they're being judged. So like, to your point, you do not, absolutely do not need to be in any sort of public position in order to struggle. You're looking for judgment that might not even exist. You're including some of those folks I know are stuck in inventing things that don't seem to have a basis in reality, but to them it's real. Yeah. Yeah. Clearly the look she gave me or that response or she waited too long to get back to me. I clearly said something wrong. Like, that's a tough position to be in. Yeah. I think that's why I like acceptance and commitment therapy so much for social anxiety in particular because of this element of why argue the fact that they might be judging you. That is a waste of your time. They might be, they might not be. Who knows? The idea is if we can accept that, then we can come back to the conversation that we're in or whatever activity we were doing before or whatever matters to us. So yeah, I think, actually I was wondering though because we talk about these things with such sort of facility because this is our realm, but if somebody was watching, I can imagine that having social anxiety and we're talking about these safety behaviors and all of this, maybe unpacking that a little bit and what exactly a safety, I mean, we've kind of touched on a few of them, but what that is, what it's intended to do because obviously you can't stop something if you don't know what it is. Yeah, that's true. I mean, the most common things, I mean, there are like the very overt sort of safety rituals. I have to make sure I dress a certain way. I gotta make sure I've had plenty of sleep. I have to be at my game, top, top level. Send off any mistake I might make that will leave me vulnerable to these bad feelings that I'll have. Yeah. Whether I'm being judged or confronted or I just think I am, I don't wanna have those. So I gotta maximize the odds that I won't have that happen. That's definitely, those are very overt. I've seen a lot of rituals around that. Yeah, well, and it's interesting too, it's sort of like perfectionism, ultimately any sort of perfectionistic. Yeah, yeah. And these might fall into that. I know people that approach pending social things like they're training for a fight. It's like Rocky, they are literally trying to gear themselves up for weeks in advance to be ready for this event. Yeah. It's exhausting. Totally. Yeah. Totally. So yeah, like that sort of preparing which probably comes with this rehearsal, even mentally, right? You might not be able to see it, but this constant engaging in the conversation even if we're event, even when you're not there. Yeah. Which people without social anxiety do that too. You know, I'm sure plenty of people can relate to having like a fight with somebody in your head that never actually takes place. I have won so many fights in the shower that I can't even get to tell you. Yeah, shower is a good place to fight. Yeah, right? With yourself, the imaginary person that lives in your head. That's that moment where you think, oh, I should have said, I know what I'm saying. Yeah, absolutely. So, but there's that, there's also, I mean, I think a lot of times people will ask safe people like, how'd I do in that environment? Did I sound stupid? Trying to sort of get some reassurance that they weren't, that they didn't come across that the way that they were fearing they were perceived. Yeah, yeah, that's true. So there's the safety rituals afterwards or that constant reevaluation to try to find some certainty that it was okay. Yeah. And it's funny because, what do you think about the consequences there? Because sometimes you hear that whole like, well, of course we fear social rejection. It's a evolutionary imperative. We have to be part of a tribe. Okay, probably. But I've heard so many people just describe the utter dark feeling of shame and embarrassment and feeling inadequate. Like it didn't have to do so much with like, I'm gonna get kicked out of the tribe. It's just, if I can't come up with certainty that I did okay, I just feel so bad. It's just a bad internal experience that I'm trying to eradicate. Yeah. There's a bunch of rumination afterwards. Yeah. Well, I wonder too how much that bad feeling is informed by the evolutionary piece. Probably. It's gotta be connected, I'm sure. I wouldn't, you know. To some degree. Yeah, yeah. I hear people describe it all the time. It's just this horrible feeling about myself then. That's a terrible experience to have. Yeah. Well, nobody likes to feel anxious. I have yet to meet the person who's like, you know what? I really wanna feel anxious today. I'm gonna sign up for that unless they're doing ERP. Well. Sure, okay. And it's time limited. I'm gonna be anxious from one to 130. Yeah. Yeah. I get it. So where do you go from there? So clearly, this is where we always get to the end of these videos. I'm like, hey, thanks, because we know we haven't solved your problem for you, but we did have a lot of words. In the end, where's the path out of this? So I think learning how to be in the presence of these beliefs that pop up, these thoughts that are related to these beliefs, like, oh my gosh, I'm not good enough. They can, there's a lot of imposter syndrome in this too. Oh, probably, sure. Oh, they're gonna see who I really am. They're going to reject me. That's gonna be awful. I don't wanna feel that way. Noticing those thoughts and making space for them as well as the emotional experience that they bring with them, that anxiety, that terror, that, yeah, I think that those are at the heart of it. And then learning how to be with that terror instead of then starting into whether it's, I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna try and replay this conversation in my head until I feel okay about how it all went, which sometimes works and sometimes does not. But either way keeps us sort of trapped doing all of this review after the fact or I'm gonna, without rehearsing for the next thing. So every time that you notice, ooh, I wanna figure out how I'm gonna address this going, you know what, I'm actually not doing that this time or limiting the amount of time that you're doing that. Let's say you have a presentation or something for work, you're probably gonna wanna prepare for that, limiting that so it's not this constant thing that's happening in your mind. We're not asking, right? Like for reassurance, what are your thoughts? Well, I think it's so hard, it's funny because before we did this, I did my Monday live stream and we talked about, it was prompted by a quote from the third edition of the Act Book or whatever book it was that I had put up on Instagram and talking about how acceptance is so hard to learn and teach and we fall back on metaphors and analogies because there are no steps for that. But essentially it's, you know, you're learning to feel not mind, like, you know, that's the use of mind as a verb in act. Like you're minding again, like you're trying to, you're not just feeling you're trying, you're minding, meaning I'm trying to solve and fix this experience as opposed to just, I feel like crap and I probably will for the rest of the night and what happens if I just feel that and not try to fix it? It'll pass, like all feelings pass sooner or later. And I think that's the thing that somebody with social anxiety would, any form of anxiety doesn't wanna feel so I'm gonna try and fix it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and just being with that feeling to your point, I love the discussion of minding as a verb because we tend to conflate as a culture, oh, well, in order to feel this, I have to think about it and that's actually not true. You don't have to think about it. The feeling isn't in, it's not mental. It's not, it's more physically based. And so if you can drop into the physical sensation and just be with that, you can even I would argue because I think a lot of times it's like, I feel horrible. It's like, well, that's actually a judgment of a feeling and not a feeling itself. So what is the feeling and can you make space for that sort of opens up the ability to just be with that thing and for it to naturally pass more quickly? Yeah, which is not, it's not really an intuitive thing for a person to do. Nope. I have to allow negative internal experiences and not fix them and just let them run their course. That's, why would I do that? I should problem solve this. 100% and I think sometimes we're also surrounded but sometimes I feel like I constantly get in a soapbox about this but we're surround, when you have a negative internal experience like shame or embarrassment or feeling the feel that you've been judged, I'm being judged. A lot of times the knee jerk reaction from the outside world is, well, they don't deserve you if they're judging you and they don't like that's that argument that it's somehow, well, you gotta just let them, you're fine, but it's probably more productive to say, well, maybe I'm not fine, but nobody's fine and we all have our flaws, we all have our problems. So instead of trying to control and like eliminate the possibility that I might get judged or whatever, evaluated, better learn to move through that when it does happen. That's not, I don't think that's a default for people generally. No, and it's interesting, right? Because what you're talking about is people, I think are trying to fix the feeling for when they're talking to their friends. Yes. You don't need to, like don't feel that. It's like, You're not worth it. Yeah. Okay, but I do feel it. So what do I do with that? That's exactly right. So how many times have you felt bad about yourself and then you've had a well-meaning friend or even an online support group or something? That's a them problem. That's not about you. That's about them. That's their hurt coming out. Okay. I get that and I hope they don't hurt, but I hurt right now. So How do I deal with that? We'll deal with that right now. Yeah. The rewards are well-meaning and I appreciate it, but you didn't take it away. Maybe for a minute or two, but then it's back. So that's where the anxiety kicks in. It's that always like, Yeah, but what if, you know that race? Yeah, but what if they really, what if you really are bad? What if they really did see the real you? And what if they really are judging you? And what if they're right? What if they're right? What if I am flawed? What if they tell all of their friends? You know? There's so many what ifs that I think trying to address the trigger, which in that case would be your interaction with the rest of the world is almost impossible. This is an unlimited number of possibilities that an anxious mind will come up with that will trigger you. Yes. That's for sure. And that's why I think uncertainty as a principle is so important and understanding that accepting it is really the only way through because if your mind is creative and intelligent, you're going to come up with alternatives as to how it could, it could be true. And you're right. Correct. That's just right. So like that to think like, oh, well we can get certainty or like chasing confidence is a really good idea. Like, no, we don't, we don't need that. Yeah. At least a time. Social anxiety is tough too because whereas maybe with some of the other things that I know I am in touch with every day, things like panic disorder, well, look, I did not have a heart attack. That's a fact. You've never had a heart attack. But you know, it's not like people have social anxiety because oh no, I'm very socially anxious because I'm not six foot four. Well, that's a fact. That's true. I am not six foot four. Right. Well, what am I going to do? But it's more, again, it's that endless array of possibilities that you cannot prove true or false because they're very amorphous things. That's so true. The same token in some ways, it's harder on the way in, but I think for relapse prevention, it actually ends up being very helpful because you ultimately have to get with, you have to get to a place where you're absolutely accepting of the fact that all of these things might be true versus with panic disorder or agoraphobia. After a while, you're like, oh, well, I'm not having panic attacks really though. And that can really sort of set you up to go like, well, oh, I'm really glad I'm not having panic attacks, which then can lead to resistance when they come up, which gets you back into the cycle. That's true. I do think it's a little bit easier from a person would say panic disorder, like they begin to recognize that, oh, the thing I feared doesn't really ever happen. I don't snap. I don't go crazy. Yes, in this moment, I might feel that fear again, but as opposed to those amorphous. Totally. No, I agree. That's not myself in social lanes. I was really hard, you know? So, yeah. And if we take it back to Brene Brown, over time, the idea with vulnerability is that you will meet with more intimate connections, more trust, more sense of acceptance. So I suppose, yes, it's totally amorphous and there could still be all of these potentials, but at the same token, the likelihood is that over time that you start to build a sense of community that does sort of counteract likely this belief that you have about yourself. I think so. And you even, I would think that you start to begin, and this is where it starts to veer way out of our realm in a way, but it matters. Yeah. You start to build a new relationship with yourself that there's a level of acceptance that says, well, I'm a human being, which means I'm not perfect and I'm okay that I'm not perfect. So I might have some really big flaws. Yeah. Okay, you know, what am I gonna do? And sometimes I feel really bad because that's part of the human condition and okay, what am I gonna do? I'll have to be, I'll have to accept myself this way. Yeah. Hard, but you know. But necessary for sure. I'm, and ultimately I think you can't really divorce that from the work that we do either. It's all, it is all tied together. And that's why I think it's so interesting, especially in essay where I think there is overlap between this type of therapy and maybe other modalities that are more traditional or talking based, they go hand in hand. This is not us against them. They actually go quite well together. Absolutely. And this is specifically so. Absolutely. No, what you were saying earlier about all of this, this idea that you, the awareness is important. I think that that's true in all forms of anxiety disorders. And to the extent that looking at your history can inform that awareness in the present moment, it's helpful. So I actually think that there's room for that across the board. It just, as you said earlier, you don't wanna get stuck in that ultimately. Right, right. You gotta look at the behaviors cause there's still like the issue. All right. That was 30 minutes on start. That was more than a few words. So I put the wrong thing on the bottom of the screen. How did I come up with that? I don't know. This was my live stream for today. Oh well. Hey, for everybody who's been listening for the last 30 minutes, ignore that. Yeah. That's not, that was just. That was not it at all. Figment of your imagination. This was supposed to be up there. That's what we were talking about. They had you off the screen too. I had me off the screen so I could see you close though. Oh well. Oh wow. It is, hopefully you knew that as we were talking about it, what it was about. But yeah, we never do, we never have a few words about anything. We have too many words about all of the things. Probably why we ended up getting anxious in the first place. Although interesting, why did it, why is accepting so hard to learn? Which I like a doof had up on the screen for the last 25 minutes. Kind of applies in a little, in some ways. Yeah, for sure. Cause we did talk about that too. Edit this with an overlay anyway. We'll see. If you do not see that error, it means that I edited it. I think so. Anyway, thank you my friend. I'm glad we got to do one of these after so long of not being able to do one. So I'm going to put, let me put Lauren up on the screen. If you want to find Lauren, you can find her on Instagram at the obsessive mind. Did I put the right thing up? Or am I sending people to like Baskin and Robbins? You're there. But I wish you would send people to Baskin and Robbins ice cream cause that would be fun. I know. I haven't had ice cream in a while. No, I want ice cream. Of course you do. Ice cream's great. And don't forget if you're coming from my place, do you have your stuff? Your, your... I should, but I can't. Okay, well I'll just tell people, go to at the.anxious.truths on Instagram cause Drew's awesome. And you should. Make it happen. Let's put it right up there. Bam. Look at that. Look at me with the stuff on the fly here. I'm so flustered. You remember that there are dots in that. I don't know why. Like it always tickles me. I'm like, the anxious truth. You can't handle the truth. Anyway, I'm, you know, again, we did not solve anybody's problems, but hopefully it was a worthwhile discussion and opened up some things that we probably need to talk about more. And we will at some point. So if you have comments and questions and you're not watching this in the premiere with us, just bring them on in on YouTube. I will swing back twice a week and look at my YouTube comments and I got to drag Lauren over to the video to answer some stuff. I will do that. I will, I will happily be drugged. You've got to go to the video and answer questions. I don't know if I conjugated that right, but okay. Yeah. Sure. That's fair enough. All right guys. Thank you. We'll see you next time. Thanks. Bye.