 The only thing I never done was kidnapping because none of you see the point Just fucking show her that what you kidnapped him for send a message my dad. Yeah used to hold me Punch me in my face like punch me in my face like kick me hit me with things like He burnt my hand over the fuck fire like because I nicked a star bar on the packet really spear me come Purple I had over the fire made me eat you know a cone of hot pepper sauce. Yeah, like Spoonful of that right actually two spoonfuls of that after I had my hand burned over the fire And then I put in a cold bath and then beat him with a belt. I Don't know how we used to do it Like having kids myself. Yeah, I just don't know how we used to do it And then we've gone to the floor for these kind of trying to kill me as I vote my I went bang the last one look Yeah Come straight up went straight in there I picked up a big bainy and I've run down the stairs believing that my three or four powers were behind me I've run into the kitchen through the kitchen door Fucking pain after his price it touched my mom again. You can't I'll kill you. What do you mean breaking your legs breaking your legs? Sam Sam gone Oh How how can you think it's okay to stab somebody? Yeah 12 or 15 times for chatting to your bird has it okay to shoot somebody because they don't pay you no money Do I mean has it okay to? Boot someone's door off and weigh them in in front of their family because they've let you down like do you understand? Like it's just what we accept as normal behavior is barbaric in sunny Then we're on today's guest. We've got Marvin here, but how are you brother fantastic fantastic? Thanks for having me Yeah, thanks for coming on you've led a very interesting life. You've Got over some of the convictions. You've been shot five times. You've been stabbed you bring prisons You've ran about with the biggest names Not just in Europe, but worldwide you know the elite but you try to change your life Well, you are a change man now, but first of all, it's good to have you on the show. Thanks for having me Have you been you know what? It's been a blessing being free, you know, so when people ask me how I've been is It's amazing like actually being free from the restraints of the life choices. I made prior to my transition You know, yeah, you've run about like I says a lot with the Elite of the crown wonder world, but before we get into all that always go back to the start of my guests Where'd you go up and how it all began? Yeah, well, it started in Liverpool. I was born in exactly hospital 1972 My dad was a Bayesian My mom was from Croc stuff very sort of Conflictuous relationship from the off croc stuff being one of the most racist parts of Liverpool at the time and Irish and Scottish parents my mum and my dad being Bayesian full Bayesian I suppose the ink the the twang of his accent the the swagger of his body's clothes he's like an old player into the transport game as a young man himself they used to do a lot of the Sentimental importations For a while, you know, so my dad was in the world. My mum was is One of many women because I've got brothers Just and I think about 15 16 of us all together brothers and sisters from all different mums all and Europe and the rest of the world So I mean dad was pretty active out there bit of a playboy earliest memories I had of Liverpool was Mount Pleasant school and the joys I want to put this out there because I've always wondered because I've got one memory of The last fight I ever had and as mad as it sounds it's always bugged me. I don't know why I had a fight of a guy called Christopher Hatton in the ball ring in I've been might have been 1975 or no 1978 or 1979 it could have been yeah It's my last fight. I remember the fight was over a girl in the ball ring and we had a fight in the bin sheds a Little gingerbread kid who was and I've always always always always I don't know why it has always been in the back of my mind I wonder how he is. I wonder how he's developed. I wonder how he turned out and Yeah, Chris Fatton has a mouth of the first memory and we lived across the road from the new cathedral in Liverpool So it was a bit of a Building site growing up. So it was over there playing all the time doing all the camps chase getting chased by the tramps fishy was the resident Sort of down and out of the area. That's what he's calling fishy big beard fella He used to chase us off. We used to do bits and pieces like normal naughty kids do making camps and stuff and then The first bit of trauma because I relate everything in my life. It's um, it's all connected It's all connected to the trauma right so the first bit of trauma was the Christopher Hatton fight I Don't know why that's been such an impact in my life, but it hasn't it always will be and Then getting run over I've got run over on Brownlow Hill. Well, no, I'm not brown. Oh, it was round the corner from on Pleasant Street We used to go to a Sunday school. How old were you? Maybe five or six Yeah, because I was seven when we come to London so it might be four or five even and basically we used to go Sunday school and basically I'd Done so well that it was giving out all the Christmas presents everyone might and I've done so well that they'd save my presence will last this one I've late found out later So they'd they'd hold in my presence will last but they've got all the presents out So I thought instantly they haven't got a present for me. So obviously I've got the um I can't remember the mindset I had back then, but I knew I was angry because I was ejected Yeah, I've run out of there crying run across the road. I've got it by a red Well, then TR7s move the TR7s, right? So I've got it up in the air and I remember looking and I see the people at the top of the bus And then I've hit the floor. I ended up going to all-day hospital I had my legs in track my right leg the same leg. That's Got fractured when I was shot That got broken. I've got other I've run a pin, but it was like a traction weight on my leg to keep my leg separated I was in there for a few months and then we got out of there. I was got better and then Hold on another bit of trauma fell over on a milk bottle and went right through my legs I got big scar on my leg there That was in Kirby and then I got run over Yeah, because remember the most just come back there was actually getting held down by the doctor when they're trying to give me the injection in the Cut and that wasn't getting run over. That was the bottle So I've just done things out of chronological order there. So I got fell on a bottle first and Then I got run over after I got run over. We got better and it was Sort of a bit of a blur from then until we moved to London So I don't really remember much. So we must have been happy days Everyone fine, you know, like you live in life. I think there's no issues. No trauma So there was nothing significant for me to remember and then I remember the day we was moving to London It was like we're moving to London and it was like what we're moving to London. We're going to London So we were going to London and I remember going to London remember we moved from Brownlow Hill, which is the the top of town ball ring and to Chalk Hill Estate in Wembley in West London. So that was the first experience of Londoners So obviously speaking like a scarcer and I Was alien to the environment being mixed-raced in the predominantly racist England at that time Being mixed-race never went well because I couldn't mix with the blacks or the whites properly because I was always frowned upon by the blacks and the whites, you know, so Trying to fit in was always a challenge and basically I found a lot of comfort in Sort of violence my young age. Yeah, that's what got me noticed. That's what got me accepted That's what got me like that's what got me sweets drinks chicken footballs like fags You know, like you're my mate. You're my mate. And I'm like so if anyone had a problem Marve Marve and then I'd fight or I'll do whatever it was. You know, like wherever it was necessary from that early age I'm fighting little people's battles or fighting the older kids for the younger kids like even fighting some of the younger kids older brothers because I didn't like the way they treated them sort of thing So I didn't understand why I Was different do I mean I couldn't understand why His mum didn't like me or his dad didn't like me in being black. My dad's black My mum's white. Why don't people like me like I couldn't it never resonated when I was a kid. So the release for that was Always trying to please other people to get accepted and that's when it started Like a sense of bullying and mental torture that people wouldn't accept you for your skin color for being from Liverpool Yeah, that's not mean was that a sense. It's the same of anything. It's just Unfamiliarity breeze content. Yeah, I believe that it's It's just part and parcel of the human programming system that we're all accustomed to no matter who you are What no matter where you come from, right? And this is one thing I'm starting to realize with my development in a transition, right? Everyone's born with or programmed into some form of racism No matter with your white black Chinese Muslim, you don't like somebody your your cultures don't like another culture there's just it's just an inherited sort of Patheticness because I just believe racism because of the due diligence. I've done over the last few years Yeah in genetics in humans and where we come from where we started from how we existed I Actually realized that the spectrum of a human being that a lot of people don't realize is Every bloodline is black and white So if you every bloodline goes back seven grandfathers Well, and I say this quite a lot and people will implore them to go and investigate seven grandfathers You'll see a black man You'll see a black man Guaranteed within the seven grandfathers usually to three or fourth. So your grandfather his grandfather His grandfather, they'll be black Guaranteed and if you're black, they'll be white and that is Something that I've started to realize is very common, but we're programmed not to see it or believe it so Because of that ignorance growing up and trying to fit in with everybody now our sort of understand that the racism isn't specific to white people or black people racism is something that is just programmed into every sort of Race on the planet and it's just Learning to deal with it as an early kid growing up It was just egg. So how old did your dad stuck around for this year there? He was there my dad was around because I Used to believe that my dad didn't love me Well, I used to believe my dad never cared about me because of information obviously for my mum They weren't until my dad died that I realized he did love me and he really had my best interest at heart, you know, like Even when I had a lot of conflict my mum was a bit of a party girl My dad was a bit of a bully drug dealer violent member. It was very controlling So if my dad had leave my mum on her own for two three weeks and turn up my mum be chatting to a geezer My dad had way you're in so it was very Confusing growing up looking at my mum and dad's relationship. Do you know I mean so I Can play a major factor in your life as well My dad played a massive part in my life because for example Moving from moving on a bit so I was about 13 between 12 and 14 So I started smoking puff around 10 11 and And basically I realized that all the stuff that my dad used to get delivered is what everybody wanted So when my dad used to get all these crates of puff and weed I used to knit carrier bags of it and stuff right so I learned apart from the violence How to manipulate and work with people with the puff so I used to nick a lot of puff off my dad so 12 to 14 I was nicking a lot of puff from my dad and that's when I got to 14 is when my dad sort of exited because I Was nicking puff of my dad for so long Right, and then basically my mum used to get all the beatings Because my dad used to believe my mum was nicking his grub But it wasn't my mum it was me and then basically what happened one day I'm in my bedroom with nicked a parcel of I think it was jeans My of jeans I would usually do the jump-ups on the vans, right? So we nicked a parcel of five-by-one jeans Between four of us and go cut a bunch of pairs of jeans or I can't remember exactly how much jeans we had or how much product We had but we were in my bedroom and we're sorting out the piles of clover what we're gonna So we were gonna sell it so I've heard my dad downstairs because my dad used to leave all these puffing my mum's ass come around carnival because My dad was a big player in the Sensominia world and since he died the black Sensominia what they used to get they don't really get it so frequently and people know my dad Bayesian Barry for more over Halston, Stonebridge, Brixton Labric Grove, Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham like he's well known because he traveled the country doing what he was doing And basically I'm in the bedroom with my mates and I've heard my dad having a gap in my mum Believing that she's nicked his grub but because all my mates Profit from me nicking the grub. I'm like rough Well, they're like my vision down in there. I don't fucking care man. Come on. We got to do a minute And they're like my man like my dad was six foot four like it was like all the mr. T Chains all the way had all the gold watches had a rover three five s back in the day He had a jag back like I had the garms. He had the club. We had the diamonds. He had everything I mean as a kid looking up to me was like, you know, yeah so that Because he was the man on the street at that time my mates didn't want to confront him So I was like no come on come on. Please please. It's my mum. It's my mum. It's my mum And it was like fuck it coming in so I picked up a big bainy and I've run down the stairs believing that my three Four powers were behind me. I've run into the kitchen through the kitchen door Fucking pain after his first it's my mum again. You can't I'll kill you and he's just gone I said move I pushed it in his neck a little bit when I say move it give me a bit of confidence So get out of my house you fucking kind of you ever put your hands on my mum again I'll kill you stone dead now get out and he's backed up backs up. I think yeah Yeah, I said don't fucking come back here leaving your gear here and I my mother's been taking you get I've been taking your fucking gear for years your mug now get out of my house and he sort of backs up and left So when he's left, I'm like mum. Don't ever let me in the ass again. This is gonna happen. That's gonna happen and then I Sort of went one step further without I've got it was only a replica But I had a replica 44 and my dad used to have a we used to work and do bits and pieces in Church Road over Stonebridge Way Wilson They should do gambling asses in the snooker club and stuff like that and he was up there So I thought I've got to go and put it on him again Let him know he can't come back to my but I'm gonna do it in front of his friends Because I know how much he used to love it. Where'd you fall in still on my young boy Yeah, full in I was and I'm sort fuck it So I've got the thing gonna mean about it come drive me over there driving over there So when I walked in the downstairs bit I put the gun down the back of my trousers, but I left it so when you looked up at me you see it Do I mean I left it so everyone could see when I walked in if they looked who's that they could see it So I walked in I walked in and they were sitting down playing cars. I was walking. I was one You ever fucking come down my ass again you fucking mug. I'll blow your head off I'm telling you don't ever go to my mom's ass ever again, and then the couple of these mates I'll bury buried I've switched on them. I said say another fucking word Son of a fucking word, and they'll just all world up a little bit. It's fueled my ego a little bit made me really Lose my mind a little bit that give you a power trap. Yeah People off fear to me, but they'll respect me now Yeah, and it was like these are the biggest people in my world like my dad in it like la I love my dad I Always love my dad, but I always defended my mom. Do you understand song? Always secretly wanted to be my dad when I go out with my dad We'll turn up in places that he'd be the life of someone to pay Everybody wanted to speak to my dad. He was the man. So That's what I wanted to be. So although we had conflict over that with my mom I always had a relationship with him and always go and see him He had other kids that I'd always go and see me little brother Kirk and Naomi I can't spend time with them So I never Hated my dad Personally, I hate my dad because what I believe What I believe my mom said about him, you know and Weren't all the funeral that I realized the impact that and I've got to say it because we had a few we had a funeral on third man third third in road in Kilburn and it was road blocked You couldn't get anybody in there the church was Ramo the people outside of his Ramo like it was 23,000 people there and I was like What the fuck I had a right naughty speech to get up and cover my dad about leaving my family with thinking and then oh old-age pensioners Old-age pensioners coming up to me saying how your dad use your dad's favorite Your dad loved you your dad this your dad that your dad this and I was like wow And it was just like I Had to look at my mom I said Love me and then obviously because I've had girlfriends and I've been in relationships. I Haven't give some of my partner's money for a reason to understand son And I started putting a correlation to why my dad would leave my mom without money And it wasn't because my mom was an angel. Do you understand? So The prog that I had to grow it up which fueled 90% of my anger Was because of the way my dad treated my mom and us included right but At the funeral Because of everyone come up to me. It made me realize that I've wasted the opportunities to get to know my dad or Speak to my dad even ask him what happened when we were kids growing up. Why did you treat my mom like this? I always just believe my mom never questioned it But whenever my mom come up my dad was like, I don't want to talk about your mom. I don't want to talk about your mom Do you understand son? She was battling with her own problems. Yeah. Yeah, I'm painting my dad out to be the bad guy when It was about when we were skin like we don't have money when my dad was a bad I mean like my mom when I was she tried her hardest but looking after fucking four kids Four weeks from all three mixed race kids and one white kid in an environment There's just no blacks. No dogs and no Irish. It's hard for a white woman, especially being from Liverpool So I sort of empathize with what my mom ought to go through and I understand The program and she had that led to the behavior that I was accustomed to not to deal with you know, but it's It always falls back to that programming aspect of society and how you're meant to believe and how you're meant to think And how you're meant to behave, right? so my mom my mom was my best mate she still is but She done what she felt was Appropriate for her to feed her kids. Yeah, some people say That's life. Yeah, what your mom's been through is all she knew as well Yeah, how she's been raised same as your dad same as you same as your kids are a reflection of you Yeah, I mean it. It's all they know. It's not that they're bad people. Do you know what I mean? It's them. Yeah, that's why I'm glad my kids in a good place Oh No, it's true that I'll say show me my show me his kids show me my show me his home, right? So go on up I don't I don't blame anything or anybody for what I went through because I made choices to become Somebody and what I wanted to become was the biggest baddest most frightened in villain there was like and my inspiration come from the Sweeney Police five, you know, that's all budget. That's gonna be me. I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna do that. So From a very early age. I was programming myself not to become another version of my dad Because he never looked after us. We was always skinny. He looks good, but we're not good So I'm not gonna be like my dad. I want to be like them geese We've got the the big cars and the big the proper gangsters they're shooting people like my dad They all gambling they smoke weed. They're hanging about him. No, so The correlation between success for me wasn't my dad selling weed in the back Gambling houses. It was the gangsters in the nightclubs and in the bars buying drinks for everybody. I mean champagne leaves They all yeah a cupboard coming up suntan's and all that like taking the kids on holiday like I had it with a lot of Growing up as a kid a lot of the arm robbers from Kentish town in Islam When my mates dad so I was growing up with all these old arm robbers I won't mention no one's names, but everyone knows my mates and knows their parents. Oh, I was brought up with the arm robbery mindset of Never around your friends take it to the grave. You know, I mean don't tell lies and be game Don't back down from no one and get your own dough. So the principles that we was Programmed into believing to move forward was Programming to me from a very early age and because I didn't want to become a version of my dad I chose to become an arm robber. So I've chose to go out the ladder to become an arm robber and it started from Nicking car stereo's and I Can talk about it So my car stereo's Days is what sort of connected me To other villains throughout later in life and it was just sort of spawned a lot of criminal activities because It's mad our things happen. So I'll tell you the story I used to make car stereo's and then basically from the car stereo's people wanted car parts and then Then hold cars. So it became there was a little group of us from Camden and Bell size Park and we used to collate together That's seven or eight of us all from different backgrounds. Some was white some was Spanish some was African Some was Jamaican another was two others was mixed race and the rest were white and basically We should go out of Nicking car stereo's at that time used to get hundred pound per stereo hundred and fifty pound for Blackpunt, New York or Pioneer 90 10 or 90 86 something like that And basically we used to get money and then basically we do if you go out Nick five six there We owe the five six hundred pound 12 13 years of age. It's a lot of money and then how that used to grow was we used to play blackjack and Then win car stereo's so from a very early age. We was becoming accustomed to having a lot of money and then basically One day someone said to me can you get up caps so I was like up caps what for cars He was like, yeah, I was like, yeah, of course, and he's like, well, I'll pay for the upcups I was like how much it was so like I bought it went from five pound up to 75 pound per hub cup And I was like, are you joking? He's like, no, I said, yeah, I'll get you them So we started off with and don't know why but MG metros JB that's his initials right from over Abbey Road. I'll mention it because These were the players back in the day when I was a kick-run up driving it MG Metro is fully loaded They wanted hubcaps Yeah, yeah, they wanted all wanted it. So then the hubcaps then the BM hubcaps and then the Rolls Royce hubcaps used to get 75 quid each for them, right? So Basically when we sent in the car stereo, I was used to find the keys in the glove compartment So then I was used to Nick the the the minis with the window wipers Well, so with the minis we used to drive ran Getting all the stereos and put him in the car and then when we find the keys in the car would nick the cars So then we'd take the cars away and then people start buying the cars And then basically how it escalated from the cars to the car stereos to the car accessories and then to the whole cars and then basically I fell into Doing business with a guy called Chris Bergleier He's an old friend of mine and basically used to buy all the cars of us, right? So basically We used to nick all the car stereos the car parts and cars and then we used to give all the cars to Chris Chris went on to get Nick for the biggest ever ringing clue the country ever seen like they got like the amount of cars We used to get and this is how we went up the ladder. So we used to get so many cars. He couldn't pay us So how could he pay us? They used to get all the all the graft of other people That was connected to the raid Genesis, right? so We used to give him the stereos and they do cut the thousand pound He couldn't pay us so he'd have to pass in graft and then we'd get the graph They have to give it to someone to sell to get the money and then it was like, can you get us any more this gear? Yeah, I'll give you wherever you want. How much of this gear can I get we can have what you want I won't give you what you want. Well, can you get me five key? I don't know. I'll ask. Can you get five key? Yeah, yeah, I'll put them two together. I just give me a drink when you get it So then our little network of friends from a very early age was growing Financially very well and then a couple of the youngsters started traveling to Ibiza doing bits and pieces making other links with other people in Europe And then they were getting other bits and pieces sent over and as a kid growing up like After the age of 14, I don't think I really Experienced real poverty because we always had some little scheme or scam going on because it was so many of us If we weren't in the fraud weren't robbing weren't stealing we were selling a bit of gear or doing other madness. Do you understand? So it was just Crime on a whole was the one thing that I live for growing up and Anything to do with criminal Financial gain is anything I was interested in anything to do with women and kids and all that sort of noncy sex stuff and all that I weren't interested in I never went down them sort of roads. I Weren't a seedy guy. I went into the lap dancing gas or although I've frequented them occasionally I just the girls that the girls couldn't Get away from me man If you are grafting in that though the girls come to you anyway Yeah, I don't mean because I know they're coming to get paid up. I'm interested I was good enough and a handsome enough as a young man growing up to have the ability to pull myself a few soaps whenever I went out so I Weren't short or shy of a bird when I was growing up. I won't ever alone Emotionally or affectionately. I always had a bird. I mean always had a bird like so I never had issues with that When did you start getting serious violence because you're known as it's always been it's always been very well known I've seen a violent man. It's just from a kid from a very early kid. It's just The first violent memory I have of actually like stepping up as I was in a school called have a stock And basically there's we're from kentish tan Queens Crescent kentish tan Camden tan and then Summers tan now a couple of kids from Summers tan used to come to have a stock But we used to have wars with Cumberland Summers tan kentish tan and Queens Crescent so I was from Queens Crescent so Basically what happened out of fight one day with one of the kids in my class and three of his mates from Summers tan All joined in so then he got split up and then act of had a fight with all four of them No, three of them one after another and I ended up beating them all up And then I started realizing from a very early age that I'm never because I was always on my own I've always been on my own all the way through my whole criminal career. I Associate with people to make money, but I've always been on my own Everybody knows I've been on my own I travel on my own I go after my own if I want to make money Then I'll collate the right team to make that money and then we go our separate ways. I'm not into All the like gangs and having it with people because there this and that I've always just kind of focus on making money Networking to make money into survive better than everybody else or anybody else I've ever come into contact with because I wanted to aspire to be Very wealthy was a kid. I didn't realize that I could have achieved it a lot easier as a kid So I believed I was going to become very wealthy within the criminal world so I've done whatever I felt necessary to achieve the status of A gangster, you know, so that was my only driving force as a kid growing up and Where was the first thing you went to the Jew? I think I was 15 15 I got nicked basically what happened I'll start I see I pulled some young bird one day Chatted her up got old of her got off of her a little reef and a field because I never lost much of visit I never lost my virginity till I was 17. I lost it late because I weren't into sex. I was I was just into making money making friends, so I met this girl chatting her up So I flinging her having a little flirt and little feel up kiss up and then basically I went to go my separate ways And it's just me. I want to see you again. I was like, yeah, whatever. So I'm going away for kind of me So yeah, I'll see when you get back. So she went me look will you take this ring? So I said for what six. I know you'll have to see me then when I come back So I was like, oh, yeah, sweet. No problem sweet. I'll take it. So I took it It was only a little pace over and I've gone home through it in the wardrobe. I've never thought nothing of it Anyway about I don't know a couple of weeks later three four weeks later fucking I'm lying in bed in Finchley voting me mums front doors come off Benjamin doors come open please go like like I'll be all coming like it's just gone nuts, right? And then it was kicked off in there the one then obviously because my mom was young When they all will come in there might I thought my mom was a girlfriend or something One of the I'll be all slack my mom and when they've started just I've just gone nuts So it's I've gone nuts in the things. I've been nick for something like seven or eight It's all here on these things seven or eight assaults on the police officers and the robbery Why because the girl for some reason when it's all the police. I've robbed her Looking back with hindsight now. She's much better gone. I'm a mom said where's your ring? I Got robbed so I don't know why she said it but That was it. I got nick for the robbery and end up getting bird for the robbery So that was my first introduction to prison So on police officers and Rob robbery was that feeling good inside at a young age? If I'm being honest, I just fought Scum I'll smash anyone's face in who says anything. So that was my mindset if I met Just going in there and that was it. So the minute I walked into the holding cells in Lambeth. It was off You're known for your boxing as well. What is did you start that? Nine ten years of age young your hand with your fists as well at a young age. Yeah. Yeah, well, I started boxing Ironically enough because I realized that I have to fight more than one person So any fire I never had a fight with just one person. I've never had no I did little Johnson Give me a black eye Yeah, there was a school fight have a stock. How do you remember all that just come back? It's just come back to remember no, we had a fight at the bottom of Malon Park and he punched me In my eye me I swelled right up and closed, but you know when you just grab hold of someone I couldn't let him go and I just I can't I can't remember what happened But I know I never got bad. I mean I had a black eye and that was it But he got I had the better of him in the end. What is did you start getting at this? You do stuff I've always been in it That's what it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't it was more like I had older brothers, right and They was all doing stuff. So I was very Competitive so if you're doing I'm doing that. I'm doing that like I'm saying I'll end up in the nightclubs of 13 years of age Right down the West End with my dad's crocodile skin shoes Dad or me brother's shoes and trousers on giving it bigger than that the shoes of three four size is too big for me But because they're crocs. I'm down the West End, but I was just one of them kids I just wanted to be in everything and I was that guy and People know people to know me know like we had a conversation the other day a lot of my friends are ten years older than me So you got all the brave people That I was hanging around with when there was in the height of their career Like people said me how old are you now? Have you look fantastic? I said, yeah, I'm only 40 I've been there all 50 60 years of age now. I mean so growing up as a kid. I Was plugged in at a hype at the top places because of my game this I suppose because I weren't scared of anybody And I'd fight anybody anywhere and I weren't I'd never run Do I mean so if you pull the blade out it's going off. I don't care if you pull gas out I'll try and get it like it was I Was I was insane in it. So Did you have no fear of dying then no because we spoke earlier you've been stabbed shot, but you're never back down never Your loyalty is was too strong. That's why everybody wanted a piece of you at the time Yeah, I was just a benefit to people, you know, and I look back at that I think well, I'll do the same if I was in that game What kind of things anything anything to do with violence stabbing shootings cuttings beatings The only thing I've never done was Kidnapping because I don't have you see the point Just fucking show her in it. What are you kidnapping him for send a message go to his house? Do what you're doing like I want the person to have the rules and morals of not going to people's houses with their families Fuck that if we're in it. We're in it. Well, you want to kill me or stab me or shoot me And you think I'm not coming to your house. Come on man. Let's have it right. It's a war in it So when you're in that world, you've got to have that mindset and I think that's what Distinguished me from most people in that game the rest. Yeah, what is it? You start moving abroad with that. Did you wait Spain with age? No, I was in in and out of Spain all my life Oh, yeah, yeah, just look what is I Thank Andy great for this because he's an old Football hooligan, but he was a mixed-race kid ten years older than me I mentioned his name because he played a massive part in My growing up with the traveling like these lot used to go out and they used to do some like six shit like They used to rob places and do things and What are they doing like? Bags of money jewelers and all sorts of shit I used to see this little firm doing and I was like, that's me. That's gonna be me But they'd go away with a football So when they were nice to me they'd go around okay. I was a little rat so The gooners used to go away and I was part of the rat the rats I'll be called the Kenny's town rats is a little group of us because at the time it was called to smoke quack and heroin because I was a Heroin use and a quack use on the cocaine user up until the age of 17 18 I was doing it as Sort of occupational hazard the end of every day I'd smoke a bit of gear smoke a bit of quack and then smoke a bit of gear to come my age Well, I was doing that from 13 14 So I was smoking quacking doors and my whole family was smoking apart from me cousin Adam You know like we've all been through at the family, you know, everyone's played their part to a certain degree Thankfully everybody's turned their lives around and they're in really good places now. So What we experienced growing up as kids was just immature mindsets trying to fit in trying to survive and trying to feed the kids and Making mistakes dealing with depression like my mum was a battered wife But my dad used to wire in like he did used to wire in that I don't I talk fondly of my dad But the beatings my mum used to get was horrific. Like I've seen him try to chop her head off and all sorts You know, like and the beatings I used to get off him like It like like like beans like I I Don't know how we used to do it Like having kids myself. Yeah, I just don't know how we used to do it Did you ever have that conversation with him at the end up because clearly when you speak about it all that emotion Yeah, straight away. Yeah, no because You can't understand how someone you love my dad's yeah used to hold me Right and Punch me in my face like punch me in my face like kick me hit me with things like He burnt my hand over the fire like because I nicked a star bar on the packet really spear me come Put my hand over the fire and made me eat, you know, a cone of hot pepper sauce Yeah, like Like a spoonful of that right actually two spoonfuls of that after I have my hand burnt over the fire And then I put in a cold bath and then be in with a belt just Because I've nicked a star bar and a fucking Wrigley spear income. Do you understand so Growing up and that was like eight nine years of age. This was the horrific treatment. We used to be like Objected subjected to as a kid right and this wasn't just me with my brothers and sisters But I'll go to the worst because my dad wasn't the dad to all my brothers and sisters So his frustrations For the other kids used to get taken out of me and that's why I grew to hate him because I used to be like Argument-safe and I've got to talk about My dad used to have a lock up at the back of the house. I used to get all his puff delivered there Right like and I'm talking half a ton a ton of puff, right and One day my brother blew the shed up with petrol like blew it up, right and I'm buzzing because you're getting battered You're getting bad because I'm fed up with getting bad. So I was buzzing you're getting bad You're getting bad watch when you get it now, but my dad come home My come on back all my brother and said what do you think I should do with you? My brother collapsed to the floor and said beat me my dad told him to go to his bedroom. I was like What the fuck who you talking to what I would have got fucking battered me Why are you beating him shut up fuck off shut Because are you fucking cunt you wanker like because I couldn't understand why they're not getting beaten Why am I always getting beaten and I'd get the beating because they're getting cheeky to my dad So the exposure to violence was extreme from an early age, you know, and it wasn't Like rarely it was weekly like if my dad used to call me sometimes If I had my dad called me I'd piss myself. Do I mean like it was it was deep but I I Fanked him in the end because without that I couldn't have dealt with what I've had to go through, you know, because I Did I thanked him before he died? I said, you know what dad? I've got to thank you for all the beans you give me because of what I've been through You know, I mean I couldn't have got through that if I want if I never had one Yeah, you wouldn't be the person you wouldn't have survived all the pain and more trauma You've been through your whole life, but that makes sense to why you were so violent as well then towards people That's why you have a sort of violence was normal. Yeah, like that and the level was of violence the only thing The only thing that can't be justified was murder, right, so Anything but that I'll do it I do it. I think if a fuck I've been nick for Loads of murders and I've been accused of loads of murders I've done and been involved with people that have been connected to lots of things But me personally, I've never murdered anybody now I've stabbed people and I've been it's been alleged that I've shot loads of people, but I've never personally Killed another human being do you understand that there's the reputation I have on the road a lot of people Don't understand it, but the people that have put it out there put it out there for a reason so Everybody says I'll kill people but what happens I'll tell you what happens you've got a problem I turn up at your house and I'll weigh you in and I'll beat you to an inch of your life and then ask you What do you want to do about it? What do you want to do about it? And I'll keep coming back And I'll keep serving you until you tell me Lord. I don't know what problems That's it end of problems here like and if you want to have it with me come see me. So yeah, here's a come Show me do what you're doing. Do you understand that further than when he's called There's another story without happened with a little firm for Manchester. They do I try to take me away I'll give them the tool to kill me. I do what you do, mate right, so The world that I lived in was a world I accepted and the rules that I played by I found that not a lot of people played By the rules correctly. Yeah, so the choices are made in that mindset that I had was pure Insanity like I know how insane I used to be because Reflecting back now. I actually asked myself how the fuck could you believe that was right? How like what's the matter with you? Like it's It's madness. It's not like if but or maybe do I mean like how how can you think it's okay to stab somebody? Yeah 12 or 15 times for chatting to your bird How's it okay to shoot somebody because they don't pay you no money. Do I mean, how's it okay to? Boot someone's door off and weigh them in in front of their family because they've let you down like do understand like it's just What we accept as normal behavior is barbaric Insanity But again, that's a wee bit of self-harming as well isn't it? Well, you're no scared to die. Well, you cut me punch me give me it Yeah, you're willing to accept it because you've had beatings you're whole fucking Listen, I'll be in nothing like Punk people that know me know I'm not doing it or saying things to look Special or it's just I don't know how I've got that gift but looking back retrospectively now I know why I don't feel pain I know why I'm not scared because the trauma The programming I had from six seven eight nine years of age has got my brain ready for trauma. So nothing was affecting me like trauma because it wasn't trauma because I've been So traumatized as a kid it was normalized as an adolescent and then there's a teenager and then there's a man And it was a belief that I accepted and you live by the rules That way people wanted to be your friend then because you were ruthless and fearless I believe so I believe I never had no friends. Well Jumping forward what made me realize more than anything was the day after I got shot and I'm in hospital Right, and I'll get it told. I'm never gonna be able to walk again Never gonna never gonna put a hundred percent weight on that leg. That's what they said I'm never gonna be able to bend no more than 90 degrees That's what it said to me, right? So I'm lying in hospital now ruined believing that I'm fast There's nothing I can do in my life. I'm only known for violence. I'm only known for grafting I'm only known for getting I never took nothing off anybody. I nick my own money. I was a good money get up That's what I was as a kid and I went out and I've got my money I never got laid on gear. You never laid me on gear to what? No, no, no, no, but I'd invest my money as a banking structure For the gear so I couldn't put my money in the bank So if I had a couple of hundred grand, then I'd buy a couple of Kier sniff couple of bits of puff Cut the tools couple of cars and I'll bank them and then give them to people that could sell that I could trust So my banking system was buying other products. I weren't really a drug dealer so to speak and when I did Venture down that road. I had more debt Because no one paid and I had to pay other people. So it was a it was a it was a world I realized wasn't profitable for me to be in that world I've gone off a little bit there. Yeah, but it shouldn't So I'm in hospital I'm expecting All my people All my brothers all my soldiers all my man them. Yeah to come and see me But because I've never I've never asked anyone for money. I've only I'd say I've asked three people in my life for money, right and Everybody knows me know that I've always grafted my own money I've always nicked me own money and I've borrowed money off friends that I've given opportunities to and money to in the past I've never gone to a stranger and begged. Do I mean I've always gone and got it and To me if you're skin you got to get money you can't punch money. I've never been a thief punts I've always been a go get them So I'm expecting my people And how many people I've looked after I've looked after fucking thousands. I've stopped people getting ironed out I've stopped people getting served up. I've stopped people going to prison. I'll put money on you've got no money I'll go and rob a van to give you money because you're my pal That's the kind of villain. I was jump in. I'll be like what you got no money. Yeah, come with me. I'm off I don't want to do that. Are you joking why I'm off? I'm scared. This is I don't wait I'll be back in a couple of ads and I've got a nick money come back. So how much is he need? There you go. Don't fucking tell anybody. I'll give you that though, right? Do you understand? So I was very integral in what I've done because I've done everything so everybody could grow Do you understand and then when I was lying in that hospital, man, and no one comes to see me it broke my heart It broke my heart And that was the day I sort of said fuck them because I don't need none of them Do you know me and then that's when the penny started dropping over my convalescence of what my relationships were with all these people You're getting used. I was being used. Yeah, and I've been groomed I allowed myself to be groomed. I allowed myself to be groomed and then I groomed my cousins I grew my youngsters. Do you understand? Yeah, but I never groomed them in a way so I could benefit I grew them in a way so they could benefit through Lee legal Activities, but all the way it was grooming. I was grooming them to do the easy jobs the best way and benefit themselves I was profiting a little bit, but they were they were growing faster than me Do you understand? So I never looked at me giving them help as me being a drug dealer That was just me getting them in front and putting them on the mat So you were shot five times. Yeah, you must count your blessings brother that you're here, huh? Do you know what you got to go through the photos? Yeah, you send me them and we'll throw the photos up. So what's the story behind this? The show was a build-up of Hating and jealousy from my perspective, right? So I can only assume this because there's no real facts, but the evidence that Presented itself after made me realize certain things and you don't need to be a rocket science to work it out so After leading the life of a criminal sort of Engagement moving up the ladder from nicking car stereos Going through to car parts cars houses burglaries and robberies. I've got Nick for a security van Got Nick for a couple of shootings I was under investigation for 19 shootings 19 murders four shootings and Basically, I went away for that The case fell apart down to the old bill trying to fit us up Basically, I'll talk about that because when we got Nick The evidence was that we was a pristine hit team Killing people for London underworld or the the English underworld, right? And we would take care of anyone's problems and do things and bits and pieces and then basically the police is Police forensic examiner said that the firearm that we used Was pristine brand spanking you never been used and we was elite We were so friends earlier where they weren't able to get anything off this guy They won't ever do this or whatever do that and then basically when we went to trial the gun that they brought in as evidence Was about 50 years old 40 years old and because of that legality We got the not guilty not we got the not guilty and then basically my code defendant got My code defendant took a plea bargain prior to this discovery on Getting no more than four years. No, they said you're gonna get no more than five years if you take a plea bargain So then we got fined guilty by association to that firearm he pleaded guilty to I mean, and then we went away. Yeah So he goes away and then it all come out There's a lot of skull dug we're going on a lot of lying cheating bit of informing, you know people got killed Over meaningless acts absolutely someone's bird Cheated jamming and then it just escalated into lie after lie after lie numerous people getting stabbed and shot people getting killed One of my good friends got ironed out Then it police got involved police was mentioned It was just it's just a whole heap of bullshit. So I'm in Belmarsh on the unit expecting to get 36 years recommended on a guilty and This was the penultimate turning point for my life. So I'm in there At the time of my life, I had crooked briefs cook crooked screws crooked everyone so Basically this I had a brief to bring in phones and everything else. So he had brought the phones gear everything else So I got a phone so I'm speaking to my people were connected to the older lot Right, so I won't mention her names, but they're connected to the older lot So what I've said to the older lot through my mate is look, we're gonna do 36 years here Now I'm not asking for around that. I've got a couple hundred grand in me. I'm money Yeah, I want to buy a slot on your transport because I know you lot getting grafted over here every week I want to buy a slot on the transport so we can feed because he was For the three of us nicked right but another four people so seven of us nicked under the same investigation, right? No, but we got feed each other for the next 30 years made we get guilty. I don't want you lot to pay me I want to pay for it myself. So we want to buy a slot on the transport. Don't worry some we're gonna look art Yeah, don't worry about nothing. You're good as gold. You're fucking proper. You're a hundred percent. Yeah, sweet lovely Laughing so now I'm thinking sweet isn't that So couple of months went by Christmas it So the missus come up. She said it mate he dropped off five quids a day Boris because he's dead now so I can say it so Boris stopped off five quids a day. I said for what she said, uh, it's for you doc and Daryl I said for what? She was like, I don't know. It's Christmas. I'll imagine I said are you fucking joking. I've asked him for a fucking slot Look ring him up and come and pick it back up. She's like what you want about I said ring him and come pick the fucking money back up so He's coming pick the money back up. I said look, you know what? I don't want nothing to do with you lot Mate, how the fuck can you send me five grand Christmas? I said I give more than that to me kids mate and you want me to split out three ways more power My code is I said, you know scumbags, mate So from that point I thought said, you know what fuck these lot man. Do I mean? I don't need them They can't pay me. They can't buy me. They can't own me. So fuck them So I just sort said look No disrespect chaps. I said but when I'll get out I want nothing to do with none of you Yeah, so just dropped me the fuck out and basically I'm a pretty spiritual guy and I had a conversation with my spirit guard I just sort of said look this is prior to the The old gun turning up So we're nick for these pristine Mac 10 silences and all the bullets and all the bullshit and all the walkie-talkies and everything Right, so we're sitting there. So I've just said to the energy. I said, look, do me a favor I promise you this now. Yeah, I will never hurt another soul for any of these cunts ever again Never do anything. They can't do I won't do nothing. I won't in fact. I'll leave the country about that. I'll leave this country So I said, all right, sweet. You'll get no more than five years. Right. That's what my good message I got now my missus can confirm this. I've got I'm cat. I'm double-cut eight or yeah double-cut eight on the unit. I Said baby, never guess what I said what I tell me getting no more than five years. So I shut up So no because my solicitors telling her you're getting no less than 36 years So she said my come on please I'm staying I'm waiting. I said no, babe. Please believe me. I'm getting no less than five years I'm doing no more than five years. I'm not gonna spend no more than five years in prison. I promise you So she wouldn't be my mom, please come on, babe I said, I don't know what's gonna happen, but either I'm gonna escape or Escape I've only got I've got I'm gonna be I'm gonna be on my toes forever So as long as you're prepared to be on your toes forever Yeah, stay if not get on with it. So she's all right, sweet and I've got that message. I did get that message that I'm gonna do no more than five years You're not gonna spend more than five years in prison. So I actually believe that that stage I was gonna get escape but Low on the hold an escape plan got put into motion, right? So Because the moves getting who is all these but these years what we decided to do was get taken off the bus because a Couple of my pals have been taken off the buses over the last few years one was Three of my pals kicked their cells out of one bus. There was Nick for a few robberies They kicked their cells out of one bus and another bus my pals hijacked the whole bus and took it the bus and then got off and escape so We was trying to find a way to escape and then we said we'll do the escape Oh, and anyway, I got this mess. I thought that's it. I've got a escape. I've got a scape I've got a scape. It's gonna be one of them because I'm gonna be on my toes forever So every opportunity I had to escape so I'm doing no more than five years. I was looking for these so kind of very long story short We're on here We're on Yeah, we're on the unit. No, we're not on the unit then we was on in Belmarsh high security and then basically we're banged up one afternoon and It's dinner time so dinner time has gone Six seven eight o'clock may have been fed but I'm one of them. I'm very vocal in prison very very vocal and very violent Strip cells and all that was places that I found comfort. So I mean the people doing made it on the wing I'm gonna serve these come up a minute three days in the strip. So let's get me head together My escape from the prison reality was the strip cells and fight with the screws down the block So I was very argumentative in prison. So now we ain't getting fed. I'm on my door governor. What the fuck So All of a sudden the nonces the nonces are getting fed before us right so now I'm not happy right because that in that that was like playing disrespect. I'm like now fuck this That's a Libby. What the fuck watch when we come out watch when we come out So I've gone strapped to the SO and the P. I was done So how the fuck can you treat me worse than a fucking nonce? It's a gang get you dinner. I said are you talking to you cheeky looking cunt without he's tried to headbutt me But as he's tried to headbutt me I'll just apocat of him hooked him and headbutted him back smash him in the teeth Headbutted the other screw headbutted him again throw him on the floor I've run across the hallway like the Well, I've run across the wing to the stairs where the screws coming down the stairs I've followed him up the stairs dragon come my other two codees have done the other two screws So now we've done all the screws on the wing an inmate a Fucking inmate jumped over the hot plate and pressed the panic button. What I'm telling you No, yeah, and Bill Marce is real Bill Marce. I'm telling you 2002 I take a wicked oak house block for right an inmate on the servery We done all the screws we done the screws mate Right and the inmate jumped over the hot plate and pressed the fucking panic button Anyway, lo and behold the screws will come bent us all up So now it's on right it's on I'm just I'm not being bigheaded, but it's on and it's violent and it's fine So it doesn't matter your screw. It's on Soon as my hands are free. It's off. Soon as my doors open. It's off. Soon as you're serving me food It's off. So it's just off off off off After two days the screws will come to my cell in the block and said I about what's the problem I said I want to exercise my fucking codees, mate. What's the matter with you? You're fucking slags Let me out my fucking cell my codees. Yeah, and I said, oh, we want to the governor wants to speak to you But we want to get you out yourself. Are you gonna be okay? I said, what do you want to speak to me about? I said no what you want to speak you want to speak to you and your two code defendants together Are you gonna be okay? I said, yeah, yeah, as long as one of my codees. I don't give a fuck So he said come on him. So I've got us out and they've took us in they've took us into the due education room and The governor said to me How would you feel about going to Pentonville? So I was like No, let me be one that right because in the morning what's happened when it's kicked off I've had bite the floor and I've split me head open because I've just shown them They can't hurt me so when they're bending my arms trying to hurt my arms. You can't fucking hurt me You mug. Are you stupid? Look smash smash. I fucking can't break it break it You stupid cunt because that was the mindset I had so but when I was in prison and people that know me they've done Bird with me that they can Confirm all this is not I'm not making it up. It just happened. But it's just how it was so It's kicking off kicking off kicking off kicking off kicking off. So then the next morning that's it The next morning I've come to go on the phone. That's it. So we're coming off exercise I'm you've got me phone call. So I'm on a 10 mile unlock, which means you're not allowed out yourself They're not allowed to open your door with about 10 screws in right gear an SO and a PO, right? So I'm on a 10 mile unlock. So they've only up to use the phone. So I've come out on the phone So and as I'm on the phone the governor's come to do his rounds, right? So I'm on the phone and I've said there's a governor. I said, sweetheart. Do me a favor. Do me a favor I said say see them lot. Yeah, tell them lot I want them to fucking shoot every five foot six Bulleted mug that walks out of his fucking job. I've always never talked to me ever again when I'll get out Do you get me? Tell them I don't give a fuck every ball five foot six. He's that comes out of jail I want him fucking shot. You're fucking mug slam the phone down. I've banged up, right? The next morning they've come down urban urban governor wants to speak to you with you co-defendants calm chill out Yeah, so I've gone in the office. So I've gone in the office walked in the office In the adjudicating room. So the governor says to me straight away. How'd you feel about a guy in Pentonville? He tried to shut you out. I was like Pentonville, sweet as a nut. Why could Pentonville's on the plot? It's my manner. That's where all my pals are. Right. So I said, yeah, I'll go Pentonville What's the script? He said You're gonna get split up. So you're gonna go Pentonville. He's gonna go hide down and he's gonna go things I was like, are you all right with that? It was like, yeah, because I was happy going to Pentonville because I can get what I want in Pentonville So I said, yeah, sweet. No problem. No problem. Little did I know the code of bastard done. He's an absolute proper move So they've got me to Pentonville but because I'm a cate they can't house me on the wing or they can't exercise me I can't be out of myself because it's not facilitated for a cate because I was a cate I won at that myself. So I was on 24 hour banger. It's all they went through red tape fucking slags, right? Yeah, I'll get into the bill. I'll get into the bill. Anyway, so a week's gone by A week's gone by and I'm thinking these fucking slags now. I've paid for parcel to come in. I've got I've got drink I've got path. I've got snout. I've got everything in a parcel waiting to come to me But no one's allowed on my spur but the security. So those crooked screws couldn't get on my spur They couldn't come on my to myself. No one was allowed to myself apart from the security. So What's that? I've kicked off with a security run. I said fucking get the security down here. I want to speak to him I said, listen, I'm not having this. This is fucking buttocks 24 hour bang up. This is illegal. You know, it's illegal All I'm asking you to do. Yeah, he's let me have a phone call, please. Let me speak to my family, please I'll let you out of use a phone. Right. We'll let you out of use phone, but please, right Don't create any problems. So I swing up your plan. Absolutely. I'm gonna take a little big up Yeah, it's your chance. I'll get a shower. I said, no, we can't let you have a shower But you are just a phone and that's it. So you never had a show on in fucking. I want to let one of that Nothing. I want to let out of my cell. I won't let out of the cell. I promise you I'll tell them But I'm on the phone now, right? No, behold, they've opened up for exercise. Right. So they've opened up for exercise So I'm like, everyone's coming out of cell bar. Is that you? I'm like, yeah, what's happening? It's an urban on the phone. So I see so I can't even chat to you lot man Now I was gonna take it off the phone. I'll speak to you in a bit. So now I'm on the phone now So I'm thinking Hold on. All I got to do is run out on the yard Bucket out in the yard. I'm sweet as a nut Fuck it. So yeah, yeah, sweet. Yeah. Lovely. Lovely. Lovely. Lovely. I'll speak to you soon, baby As I put the phone down, the screws in the semicircle around me on the phone So I'll just run from and run onto the yard. As I've run onto the yard People was talking about me being a hit man anyway, you know, saying, oh, he's the hit man for this time He's a hit man for this family. He's hit man for that family. Oh, it was out of the buttocks I wasn't a hit man for anybody. We just done things for our friends that just had needed to be done at the time So basically when I've gone on the yard now Um, I've gone on the yard now. I've just I ain't going in but I'm being known to myself Right, they'd planned a sitting on this day. Right. So I've gone out there and they all just all the inmates were planning on a sitting Anyway, so we're on the yard now. So I'm walking around saying look don't go in don't go in and we're not we're having a sin We've planned it So now people found food out and all bits and pieces out cutting a very long story short. No The kid that set up The sit out Right after about seven hours, he's gone up to the gate and asked if he can come back in When he's asked to come back in the kids on the yard have heard him asked to go back in I never weighed him in they pulled him away from the gate. They've weighed him in Punched his lungs really really like fucked his kid up. Um, I don't know what and we got Last offer was in critical condition um and then I think it was about half 11 12 o'clock at night they've come with about 750 officers from all around the country like come But what happened is Yeah Me and there's a guy called eddy ash from over south london Um him and his brother was prolific and villains back in the day Me and eddy made relationships through my previous sentence in swellside in 1993 When I got nick for an arm robbery So basically we're on the yard And everyone's talking about having to fight with the screws when they come but when all these screws turned up There was like 750 from like they come in like marching There's all like lined up lines of them lines of them lines of them with all the shields on right So we're standing there So they've all gone right sit down sit down Let's all start saying now after they've served some come up in the afternoon. It's a peaceful protest, right? It's a peaceful protest. So I ain't sitting down because I ain't come out for no peaceful protest So I said that ain't fucking sitting down. He's mugs. What's the matter with you? And he said I ain't sitting down So all the screws were coming in and they're like lined up across the whole yard right so I said I can't remember if it was a it was a roll-up or a joint right but we're standing there smoking So I said it do you want a bit of he said he said yeah, then we've heard her but her but is that you I said, who's that? Who's that? He said that was mr. Jones. Mr. Jones is head of security from Wandsworth, right six foot eight like proper lump of a man So what's all this about? I said, ah, I don't know. I said someone got served up earlier and I've been too scared to come back in gov You know what it's like. He said are you gonna come back in now? I said, uh I was gonna finish my Would you like some ed he's had a puff. I said yeah, and there we cut along so short we've walked back in Come banged up end up getting seven days loss of everything and then That's when I got moved to the unit and then I won a lad off the unit then I was on the unit in belmarsh How long was that for a year on the unit you're in the unit for a year. Did you get your five? That's what I did get five and a half years. Yeah went up we got fan not guilty of all the other cake the other charges and then got fan guilty by association To the firearm that my co-defendant pleaded guilty to yeah, because you're looking at all sorts of other charges It was it was an investigation that we went on basically They found the lock up with all sorts of guns and materials my dna and bits and pieces in the lock up other firearms um Apparently the police cross contaminated Um the firearms so they couldn't pursue the overall case So they had to take the plea bargain to the one firearm and we got thank you. We buy a so what did you do when you came out? Um, I went straight to spain That was that was what happened because basically On that sentence is when I realized that everybody I've been working with was no value Right, and they're all using cunts that work with old bill well, not My people some of the older lot not all of the older lot But some of them work with old bill and it came out in near death because me mate got ironed out And it was kind of in-house so I'm not going to detail with that too much Because it could be could cause issues for other people, but yeah I realized I can't have it with these people no more So fuck i'm i'm leaving this country and then one of my pals had moved to spain a female diddy. She moved to spain um Couple of years prior to me getting a sentence So she's always like come out here come out here come out here So I just thought fuck it when I get out i'm coming to spain. So I've got I've got uh 2006 I kind of remember I got uh april the 10th April the 10th april the 17th We had dinner at the jami oliver restaurant for my girlfriend's um birthday And then basically I had to see me license that for six months after six months I was fucked off to spain and that was it. I was went over to spain um with the intentions to just Become a multimillionaire like I had no I was just going to go full steam ahead full steam ahead Yeah, that was my only that was the only plan like do what i've been doing in england but in spain and That's what i've done. Yeah, what kind of stuff are you doing over there? Everything everything well You didn't have to rob anything over there. It was kind of weird because The drugs is there The violence is there and the debts are there but you choose what you want to do So I got involved in a bit of drugs for a little while And then I realized very quick that there's a lot of dirty snakes in that game Right, so I'll give you one example. Um a friend of mine come to me one day and said mom I've done me a favor my pal's doing a trade today, but he's a bit scared. Would you mind watching him for me? I was like, yeah sweet not a problem. He said would you go with him? I said, yeah, not a problem Little did I know that the geese that has asked me to go on the job has set the job up to get robbed Imagine that At least supposed to be my friend Do you know what I mean? So I'm sitting here. I'm watching this play go down I've gone to these other people that are buying the product. I said, you know what mate? I ain't being funny I said, but something funny is going on here. If I was you I'd get out of here You know get your power out of there. This ain't right, mate. They're not my people My power I'm here for is who he works with these are not my people, you know Like get your mate out of there. They don't seem right. Anyway, cut a very long story short It turned out that they They were going to rob us but the person that was in the gaff could speak fluent Spanish But he's acting dumb Might say they think he's dumb. He ain't got a clue. So they're talking and he can hear everything they're saying So he's actually running them up. So yeah, it's on here. So anyway That's the level of people you've got over there. Also the other people that I've done favors for And they put me in a position where I could have been killed You know, like someone's asked me to do in my favor to get my product in a certain area Um And how it works in europe is if I do business with you Me and you were buying a couple of hundred bits or half a ton Right and the trade's going on then you will send someone to sit with my people and I will send someone to sit with your people So if anything goes wrong, you've all got a body to take it out on right? So no one takes liby's the deal gets done proper so Someone's asked me to do him a favor and I've done him a favor, right? low and behold it turns out that The geezer that asked me to do him a favor. He asked me to get him a bit of puff So I've got him a bit of puff in in in holland um And then basically when it got to holland he told me that it wasn't good enough It was shit. It wasn't what we ordered. So then I've had murders with the Moroccan people that have sent it Because I'm sad. No, they're my people. He ain't gonna lie to me. You're mad. You're crazy They're not gonna lie to me, bro. Yeah, I want to back it. Where can I back it? You gotta get someone to come pick it up to them. We've got no one else to pick it up Just ask him to sell it and get what you can and we'll have a bust up. So I said, oh, that's sweet So he sold it for 1100 quid 11 1100 to 1400 quid. He sold it anyway Fast forward a year I've picked this same fellow up to do something Driving down the road and this is to show the mentality of the people in spain, right? This is how vicious it was. So I'm driving down the road of him and I've heard him on the phone to his mate Listen, I ain't left that gear there for a year for you to pull my pants down Mate, they're five grand a pop. They're my eggs and you got to do this. You got to do that. And I was like The best plan fuck you. Wow. I thought this can't drive me over But what you gotta understand is I got left as a body I got left as a body to get ironed out if he pulled a stroke The stroke get pulled and yet you could have get took out. I could have got taken out Why didn't you get took out because they believe me? So they actually punished their person who delivered it That's what I'm saying to them. They punished him. I know he got punished. He got punished. He got punished. I know he got punished Somebody else got fucking weighed in. Yeah, he got served them because that's why you are telling the truth And he was the one that was lying. Yeah, and he got fucked up and kicked out My best friend took the parcel. He was my best friend. He was just He was an associate that I linked with when I was there that I thought had my back Anyway, so basically I've drove when I've heard that conversation I've just drove back to the Moroccan fella and I've walked in there. I said, how are we doing my friend? I won't mention no names. I'll give him a color. I said, I remember that bit of gear I left for you last year. He went, yeah, I said this fat cunt's gonna pay you for it He's like, what were you talking about? What are you talking about? I said, what do you mean what am I talking about? You fat cunt, if you forgot you got your them eggs. You forgot you got your them eggs. You fucking tramp. Yeah Now you're paying him or I'm gonna kill you. It's up to you. So you can do what you want to do But I'm telling you now if he ain't happy I'm gonna kill you. You're fucking fat cunt. I could have been killed for you A year ago and you're trying to talk about you fucking horrible cunt And then basically that got sorted out. He sorted that out. And then The same fella Add someone over for a couple of ton of puff. All right So someone from england's rung me up. I said, my of you had someone's had me over Someone's done this time. This is the stamp on it. I said, you ain't gonna believe this. He said, what? I said, I'm only seeing with him. He says, shut up. I said, I'm fucking telling you get over So they've come over to Spain. So I've said to the same fella. See that bit of work you got You offered me for cheap cheap cheap you and yeah, I said, ain't yours is this is What are you talking about? I said, yeah, I might talk to him. I said, what would he make? What are you doing with my gear? He's like, ah But then he ended up getting nicked Bringing the because they they made him bring it back to england then they said right now for your punishment Take it back to england. So they've loaded up a car done a few bits put in the slaughter And they've all got nicked on the way back to england. So that means that the karma come back and hit him So I I learned very early in spain. I was moving the first six seven months and we're getting over there like if you've got a An exit for any product then you're in you're in so I had exits for things like but the people I was working with With no value. So I realized very quick that there's slags over there and you get killed over there There ain't like england where you go on a meet You work people want to talk about sorting it out. No, no in europe you get Yeah, but you've got the russians the ades the morocans even the spanish fuck about the fuck about They play by the rules. Yeah, and that's our cereal. So then So I'm thinking well, what am I going to do over there? Then one of my mates just said to me mom. Do you know what you'd be off doing? collecting debts I was like, what do you mean? He said the debts said, do you know how much money he's fucking owed out here? So people are over it. He said and you'll collect it, mate So then basically I fell into collecting debts doing bits and pieces um the one story I can tell you about was uh The the russians and the bulgarians they were russians, but it was a russian and bulgarian mix. I don't know how it happened but it was Basically a guy come to me one day said that um, I've got a three million pound three to four million pound villa Right, he said but it's getting repossessed because the people I've rented to ain't paid no rent and they won't move out They've turned it into a brothel and they won't move out so Kind of very long story short I've ended up turning up at a gaffe Well, it ain't really long story. So I've turned up at a gaffe Um, there's a security guard there. I'll put it on a security guard. So the story that I've gone there with is that This is my uncle Right that I've invested all my money in Before I went to prison To buy me a house to invest so when I come home, I've got somewhere to live or somewhere to make money He's bought the house with all the money we've invested and you've rented it And now you ain't paid 170,000 pounds in rent and it's getting repossessed. I want my fucking money, mate You owe me my money. I want my money like to me you it was I was in half of the 20 percent in the building. Do you know what I mean? And I was 150 grand in so I believed it was mine. It's my ass. I'm in it. So where's my fucking money? I ain't me. It's my partner. It's my partner. So I made him take me to his partner's house Obviously in spain and I've got nick for the firearm anyway. So you can carry firearms over there And Well, you can't pay your way out But you can pay for everything to be stalled So you can't pay your way out But because there's new laws now basically you pay and then it gets put to the bottom of the pile You pay it gets put to the bottom of the pile. When you turn up you've been out of trouble for so long It's relatively illegal to bang someone up. There's not Affect to the state's security or whatever. So because you've turned your life and you ain't been in any trouble Doesn't make sense to put you in prison. So That's how they sort of work it out um yeah, so You carry the gun over there. So the partner's turned up I've slapped him up and bullied him up made him open the safe slapped him being aggressive Where's my money? I want my money. How are you going to pay me about my fucking money? He said well, I'm going to give you 50% of this club because I'm I'm not me My partner's coming out and I'm going to have you in as my partner But you need to come back tomorrow to sign a paperwork with the solicitors and the bits and pieces. So I said, all right, sweet So I'm buzzing. I think I'm going to have me own lap dancing gaff in my bay. I'm the man Six six six six six. Anyway, so I pulled up with the guy that shot me mark ashmann So as we pulled up I've looked down to the slope and there's 10 to 12 10 to 12 lumps russians. Yeah russians and vulgarians. Yeah, don't fuck about either. They were lumps. They were lumps, right? But you know, like as the cars stopped they've all turned and looked so they've seen me They've seen me so They've seen me. I can't drive off now. Do you know what I mean? Even if there's 12 people, have you still got that mentality? People know me man. People know me. I'm not it's just it has to get done in it. It has to get done I don't want to take a beating. Yeah, I potentially killed. Yeah, it's this I was I was fucking nuts mentality man. That's a crazy mentality to have It's living that life in it. Yeah Living that life. That's what it is as I pulled up with mark Pulled up. I said come on. He said I ain't getting out I said what what do you mean? You ain't getting out. Come on man. We've got to do this. He's like fuck that. I ain't getting out So I was like, ah fuck this we got so I've jumped out of my Walked out to the first fella. First bit I was being money straight away. Where's my money, mate? Because now obviously my adrenaline's going right and I want shit myself But I just thought I've got to play my part. I've got to play this part So I've got to play my part. So where's my fucking money? Where's my money my friend the guy to the my right is my friend my friend I said mate, where's my money? I'm not here to talk to any cunt about you. Where's my fucking money Are you gonna pay me my money? My friend my friend we can go the easy way or we can go the hard way And when I heard that I just thought Here we go So I'll switch on him put my hand down and back and he tries to say mate You're gonna fucking pay me my money. Yes or no, that's the only question I've got for you You're gonna pay me my fucking money. Yes or no And he looked me up and down and he went You'd take hushies I was like, yeah, I'll take hushies and he said then you get paid. He said when he said come back tomorrow I'm gonna pay you So kind of very long story short. I went back the next day got paid half In path and a little bit of cash and they said look can we pay you the rest of another day? I would be caught up tied up that I says, yeah, whatever not a problem But do you think you would have get that you wouldn't have got paid if you never jumped out of the car? No How why would they pay you? Yeah, they would just say I was arseholes. Yeah. Yeah, it's arseholes Do you know what I mean? But the russians and the bulgarians was using the spanish people Do you understand? Yeah. So they weren't prepared to go to war for the spanish person Do you understand? Yeah, the spanish person most probably got in debt See, I mean, he's most probably working something off created this problem Do you know what I mean? And they weren't prepared to go to war for him I'm not saying that I backed them up and they shit themselves. What I'm saying is it didn't make sense To call it on there and then with this lunatic who was standing in front of them because I made the impression in Spain That I was a lunatic because I was now I know you're here. Yeah, like It doesn't I was on my own. So I was going on meetings with 10 15 geysers But because I had my tool I didn't give a fuck because I'm doing people. I'm not getting done You know, I'm saying so my head was in that space all the time no matter what See when you've got to do a security guard find another any kind of robbery with your buzzing But you're excited. Yeah. Yeah, always anything that it's just It's always a means to an end but I never pretended like when I I never told everybody what I've done I weren't one of them bragging. Oh my black. I look what I've done. No, no, no, no I'll nick my money quietly. I've got nick for one arm robbery Okay, I've got nick for one arm robbery, but it's the ledge that I was at it for 15 years. Do you understand? So The old bill had a relationship with me. I had a relationship with him, right? If they called me me hands went up Do you know what I mean? If you had the evidence, I was guilty not a problem I always got caught and then they've had the evidence. It ain't about what they know It's about what they can prove it ain't my rules is their rules So I'm not here trying to brag or boast about what I got away with But what I'm saying to you is that the lifestyle that I led I was very successful And what I like to think about now is it's um What's this word called Damn I made it to be the most successful criminal I could be by amounted to nothing Do you understand? Like and That's the one thing that's always That has resonated with me over the last five years The the impact I could have made using different products and yeah We'll touch on all that now, but when you get short five teams. How was that motion for you? How was that experience? Do you know what Like everybody that knows me knows and the people that see me recover the people that was around me Through my combo lessons will know that I'm not exaggerating. It was just part and parcel of life, mate You know, it was just something that happened that I had to get over and get through and get on with like and we had to get short um, I got shot Once and I'll give you pictures. Well pictures. Yeah, I got so I got first shot I've got I've turned that Right, I'll tell you the cover story for me getting shot. Okay. So the cover story was Basically A few a few a couple of months before the shooting Right. I'm I've got a driver that I'm paying lumps of money. So we might have got maybe 40 to 70 grand in the space of three four months in wages, right? And he was getting busted up Partying paying I was paying all the bills paying for everything So he didn't have to pay for nothing And then basically we were going around my mate's house one day and he's got a load of watches So he said I've got a load of watches here. Do you want any because I had all the ap's and all the um, what they called All the watches anyway. We had all the watches And I said no, I'm all right. I'm sweet And the kid that the driver mark ashman said can I have one? So I was like my mate said was I see. Yeah, he's sweet And I I've got to forgive him. He's anyway. So I'll pay you no matter what so he's all right sweet Not a problem. So the very next week I ended up taking 300 grand worth of cars off some people Right, and then basically I paid him wages out of that assuming that he'd gone and paid The bill for the watch but he never anyway cut a very long story short. My mate's run about one day I ain't being funny. I hate to ask mark, but are you gonna pay for that watch? What watch? So what's your pal talk? I said what pal? He said your driver I said what you ain't paying for that that cheeky cunt I said, see you you miserable little cunt. I said, you need to take that fucking watch back If I was gonna come punch you already, mate. Yeah, take the watch back or pay for it Oh, I was gonna kind of punch your fucking head in your prick. What's it got to do with you? My it's gone the fuck who you talking to? What's it got to do with me? You cheeky cunt my pal in my you come to my pal's house. He give you a watch and you ain't pay for it What are you a cunt? I said, where are you? I said I pulled the nose. I said, I'll be down in a minute I'll come out the ass. I've got me little So-called nephew Ash, hold that. I'll be back in a minute. I've given my talk because I thought I'm going down the port Don't make sense taking that. I don't know getting it. I'm gonna punch his fucking head in anyway So I've turned that as I've turned that mark Carpels sitting there Right, and I'm gonna talk about these people because I can right so mark Carpels sitting there. I said, what the fuck? So where's your mate? He said he's gone I said where he said back in a minute. I said, is it like that? Yeah, sweet He said, well, why don't you shoot off and I'll bring him up the gym tomorrow? I said, no as it happens I'll wait here for him to come back mate because I ain't fucking shook or nothing and whatever he's going to get He can fucking use and we'll see how fucking proper your powers is the little thing You don't know about your pal is I've been paying him for the last fucking seven months Yeah, he's all over a hundred grand off of me the fucking squeak Yeah, he ain't paid for fuck all and he needs to pay for this watch. I've got to smash his fucking head in He's like, what are you talking about? Do you know what my talking about? Do you know what this is over? So he said, no, so I've explained to him what it was over and he rented me out to know what mate Do yourself a favor go home and I'll bring him up the gym tomorrow. I said, no bollocks I don't give a fuck what he's going to get mate. I'm going to wait here until he comes back and he can use what he's going to get simple obviously I never believed he'd shoot me. I believed he'd have a knife or bat. I didn't think you'd have a gun, right? We're sitting there talking. I've seen him walking walking towards us because that's how I saw these diner in Port Bonoose I've seen I've jumped up come on come let's walk up here out of the way of all the public, right? So he's gone So I said, what's that? So I've seen the gun. I said, yeah, I said, what do you come a fucking do your mug? What? I'm because in my head I'm thinking about just get close enough to grab it and you've done him Do you know what I mean? I never believed he'd shoot me and he shot me in the leg Straight away. I've hit the deck because he's just shattered into when I show the x-rays He's just shattered in 200 pieces. Just gone bang. So I've hit the deck straight away And I thought you cheeky cunt. I said you better get on with your job, mate Get on with your job and then he's walked over and he's gone bang Next one's hit me in the arm. I've hit the deck and he's gone bang He's gone down my willy shot my right testicle quite and I thought well This cunt's gonna kill me. Don't say another word. Don't say another word And then he's walked towards me and just walked over put the one down went one in my forehead there And then I've gone to the throttle. He's kind of trying to kill me as I've opened my eye He went bang the last one. Look Fucking hell, mate. Yeah Come straight up. We're straight in there, boy And that's what a lot of people don't realize that's not real. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, so he shot me straight in the eyeball and when you see the x-rays you'll see the x-rays Because they don't know what prevented that from going Into my brain because it just when you see the x-rays in a minute, you'll see What are we doing that? So even though the billets shattered on the e-shattered arm that one didn't go right through and fucking No, I never done nothing and I never my femo archery got punched in three places Right punched it in three places and I'll show you the scars you can see it all because I've got the photos and the x-rays And I never bled I never passed that I've rung my own ambulance Do you understand that and I was fully awake every step of the way Like it wasn't no I never felt pain until they try to move me And when they try to move me that's when it really uh, and this was in the middle of port-a-binous Port-a-binous, yeah outside caught in glaze outside solid. He's a diner, you know, but I really did think he was gonna kill me and you know, I just I just thought this cunt. He can't kill me this fat fucking puff because In my head He had a he had his his nipple pierced. He had his belly bump pierced. He had his tongue pierced and that's what the I mean you fat fucking puff can't fucking kill me. My thought was only two weeks old My missus was in caught in glaze getting a new buggy because the baby was Too small for the buggy we got so we had to get a smaller buggy for that So she's in there getting a buggy I'm outside lying on the floor. So I'm trying to ring her to let her know I've been shot And then it just went pear shaped after that because in spain when shootings happen You don't get treated as a victim Do you get treated as a perpetrator? So not only did I get nicked and arrested my whole family and all my friends My kids everybody got nicked my my cousins the ass got raided everyone got nicked. I'm sorry. So I'm there Thinking what the fuck and I've sort of gone to the hospital and they're saying are you okay? You are okay. I said please please just save my leg I don't care how much it costs just save my leg because when I'm looking at my leg It just looked Fucked because where I've where we shot me on the bone shattered. I've collapsed So the leg just all the pressure went top of it when you see the break you'll understand what I'm talking about So it was just like mad. He was in a mad shape on the floor So all I said to the minute go to the hospital. Please just save my leg So basically I went through About eight hours worth of surgery Um And then they done all they could do Um, and I woke up in the morning. They said you're gonna be all right It's gonna be sweet isn't that and then basically after speaking to all the specialists Um And the budget and things like that. They said what you want to do I said I said what the alternatives I said you're never ever going to walk on this leg ever again this time Now there's a couple of things we can do we can put something in there to strengthen the bone And give you a little bit more support but there's too much fracture and you're never gonna walk again I hadn't seen the fact that all the x-rays happen to all this point so I'm not getting it. I'm I can wiggle my toes I'm getting told don't worry. You're gonna be walking in two and a half years the same voice I told me I was gonna do no more than five years tell me I'm gonna be walking two and a half years. So Sweet I'm in the hospital Um Three weeks later. I haven't been a shit So I said the nurse nurse nurse nurse come here. I said, I've got problems. You know what? I said, I haven't been a shit Eleanor caca. I had to speak Spanish about I said, I haven't been a shit for three weeks She was like, don't worry about it. It's normal I was like, well, when you get shot it's normal not to shit. She said no, that would be stupid. It's the morphine Wow I said, how long am I gonna be on morphine for? On and your dos and your one or two years. I was like, what? I'm gonna be a fucking smackhead. That can't happen. Do I close to my back or anything? No, no, no, no, no No, um, I said, I want to be a smackhead. I can't take this and then basically that night Before I went to sleep my spirit come to me again and said look I'll make a deal with you if you stop taking morphine Yeah And people might think I'm mad when I say this all stuff, but it happened He said me look if you stop taking morphine Yeah, and you go through every bit of pain you're supposed to go from I promise you I'll have you walking in two and a half years But you got to go through this for two and a half years And I was like sweet. I'll do that. He said all right. You'll be walking. So then basically that happened um I got they come down said we're gonna put a plate in there Put a plate in there cost 70 grand um the plate is I don't know it's from my hip to money your cdx race Right 16 pins in it from my hip to money They took my two bottom ribs off this side and 17 centimetres of my pelvis and put that in so here I've got no ribs and all my pelvis has gone there. So I mean love handles gone from there You know what I mean? They don't take that part of my pelvis put that in and then basically After that point I had to research all the nutrients that I need to walk again So then I started finding out about my diet Finding out about calcium. Where do I get calcium from now? I found out nothing gives you calcium So this is this is except your own bones. Yeah And the only thing that gives you more calcium is broken bone. Yeah. So what did I do? Break my bones, mate for 18 months just for continuously every four to six weeks breaking my legs breaking my legs breaking my legs breaking my legs and then after Six months. What do you mean breaking your legs breaking your legs? Sam Sam gone So you used to break your own fucking house. I had to because Right this one I found out you don't get no goodness. There's what I've got on the alkaline diet I stopped eating red meat dairy sugar only drunk green tea and lemons Do you know what I mean? So I like to believe that everywhere I went in Spain, no one sold green tea No one sold green tea and now everyone used to laugh at me green tea green tea green tea. Now green tea is ripe everywhere but I'd green tea takes infections out of your blood Right, so that's why I started drinking green tea and then I found out that alkaline Creates uh enzyme in your body which kills cancer building properties So anything that kills cancer is going to be good for my system. So I thought why eat everything alkaline Stay away from dairy. Stay away from meat. Stay away from sugar. So I started drinking a garbage syrup I use a garbage syrup beetroot celery cucumber let um spinach So you went plant-based as well. Well, I'm plant based. I've been here ever since right, so Breaking the leg breaking my leg and then basically I got in the swimming pools the swimming pools outside of my house um, I had a Rubber ring rubber arms And then I'd walk in the swimming pool let a little bit of air out every day after seven eight months I could walk a little bit on crutches and then I started getting down the boxing gym Do I mean with all the youngsters and then the elders and then the older lot and then the pro boxers And then I was chief sparring partner and I'm proud to say to young joe selkirk, which was the most Talented boxer that never made it out of liver pump and he was phenomenal absolutely awesome And you have a sparring with him even though with the fractured knee the one eye no fucking hip. Yep him I spired stevens Um callum smith liam smith Just to get it for you a column. Yeah, I've spied them all I've spied them all I've spied them all and had some Fantastic spars with all of them to the point where steven smith wrote the testimonial said he's never seen anybody Push his brothers as hard as I push them in the ring That's what steven said in the testimonial to me and considering that i've got one eye and half a leg This is through man. Yeah, what happened to the guy who shot you he handed himself in To get a sentence he had himself a prepared statement said I was a hit man from London And basically he I turned up to shoot him and he took the gun off me and shot me five times accidentally He got sentenced in spain and then got repatriated and then finished his bird off here, but I've See that can ask you something see all the damage you've done. Do you feel as if that's A piece of karma as well retribution. Do you think so? Yeah trial and retribution for everything I've ever been Watch this right and this is how simple it is I got shot in exactly the same place. I've been under investigation for other shootings My eldest son has a birthmark everywhere. I've been shot Yeah, dang He's got a birthmark everywhere. I got and he brought that up to me. He said dad. Do you know what? I've just realized I said, but he said, I've got a birthmark everywhere. You got shot, you know He's shut up. He said I have and he's got a birthmark on his willy on his leg on his eye on his arm Do you know me at life a powerful thing and that's the power of your mind as well The brain when you focus yourself on something no matter if it was doing a bank job selling gear Getting money back a change in your life for your knee your eye Whatever you've fought through it and it's capable of change Which will touch on in a bit, but you're also made world news world headlines for the Dale Craig and thing. Yeah, they bought the cop killer who killed the two coppers you were apparently Harboring them keeping them away and making giving them money and yeah That was Another manipulation by the police, you know, basically what happened? Dale Cregan was associated And this but I like about police intelligence Because Oh, here it is So the police intelligence suggests that dale cregan lee kelly and germaine ward Each had connections with dave cambal Right now why that is in there was because dave cambal pulled my pants down for 1.6 million quid Pulled my pants down like I've done so much work with him and give him all my money to look after And then one day I wanted to be asked for a lot of money. He said you ain't got no money with me I was like what about this what about that? Well, there's and he's like no And then other people that were close to him. I've run him up. I said remember that day I got that money. Who's with that money? He said yours. I said well your partner's trying to tell me now That it's his it was like no, it ain't so basically me and david had a problem We had a falling out david had his legs broken and got absolutely obliterated And then got pressured into pulling up my money Um, he put a contract out on me and he says here the police have been able to confirm The osman warnings threats to life were given to marvin herber on the 6th of the 10th 2010 the 8th of the 10th 2010 the 24th for the 12th 2010 the 18th for the 7th second 2011 the 12th for the 4th 2011 the 4th for the first 2012 and the 30th for the first 2012 So these was all Information that the police have got that my life was going to be in danger or people's plans kill me so this dave camber Tried to pay lee kelly 150,000 pounds to kill me over this problem that we had over this money. Um, and basically What the case with dowel craig and was basically Dowel craig and sent germaine ward to visit Or to contact me man germaine ward was someone that used to hang about with lee kelly And lee kelly me and lee used to do a lot of business with dave camber before me and dave fell out and basically I took My cousin To do something with me in manchester one day and he took germaine to my family's house in livable Well, so basically one day i'm sitting in my cousin's house in livable And one of the boys I was rung the cousin up and said there's a geese at my door looking for marvin It's unheard of Livable's my safe haven that's where my family are no one knows where my people are in livable that we have agrib So i've gone to my cousin. This is a problem That's got to be davin them like they found out where I am I've got okay, I know i'm at right so i've turned up to iron out whoever's at this door Thinking they're there to kill me right Germaine's there germaine. I said well the fuck he's like i'm off down east of speech I said where is he he said he's out of the way at a minute. He needs to speak to without a bit of a problem I said about what? He said uh, but so a couple of people have been shot. This is happening. That's happening. He needs to speak I was like mate, you know what? I ain't really got time to see him, you know because to me He's connected to lee and to dave and to the money So he might be trying to lure me somewhere to get me ironed out. So the money ain't paid right so I said look The young kid that looked after me when I got shot sam worldwide. Yeah, he got nicked with me as well on this um He'd invited me To his brother was leaving this country He'd been joining the services the army and he was leaving this country going on tour So they was doing a leaving party from in her and bay So I got invited to this home bay Reunion on the 18th of the month. I can't remember which month specifically it was So what I said to jermaine was if he wants to see me Yeah, tell him to come to home bay on this date and meet me here at this time and I'll see him No problem not thinking he'd turn up I didn't think he'd turn up. So boom I've turned up to home bay doing what I'm doing walks out onto the road I love sin jermaine and I said what's happening? What's happening? I said, yeah sweet sweet sweet I said, what the fuck do you want to need to see me for? He said, marv listen. I need help. I said doing what? He said, I need to get out of the country. I said, I'm not really in all that stuff no more You know, he was like, what do you mean? I said, well me and Dave don't really have anything to do with each other no more Why don't you go and speak to Dave? He said, no what it is I've hangrenated someone I was like What the fuck that's why are you coming to see me for I said, you know, that's terrorism, isn't it? He was like, what are you on about? I said, bruv, we can't get nicked. We can't even get seen again But come so I've took them to my mate's house where I had a key for and I've gone in I said, mate You can't you you better go and add yourself in I said, you're fucked. Well, you threw a hand grenade on someone He said, yeah, I said, mate, you're fucked. You're fucked. Trust me. I said, you're never coming out You do know that don't you? He's like, what what what I said, mate? I can't get involved in this I've got other things going on. I can't get involved kind of long story short Um, he's with jermaine. I like jermaine because jermaine was Lee's friend. So what I Sort of said to them like look jermaine let jermaine go let him hand himself in So I've said that jermaine go and add yourself in and tell the police that these lot threatened you And you had to do what they told you they put a gun to you they were going to threaten you They threatened your family just go and add yourself in but jermaine couldn't do that So he went and handed himself in he handed himself in but he wouldn't tell the police that they threatened him So he got 35 years recommended the fucking idiot. I mean and they bullied him into driving like I mean anyway um And then basically he went off and shot the two police officers and then What he'd done When he went off and left me I left and took jermaine and then put jermaine the money to get in on the train and go and add himself in He went and add himself in That one. I'm not left. Now what happened later and this was the police intelligence The police intelligence Confirmed that'll cregan Look a man called tony barnett who owns a business in hern bay Is in debt to many different people is widely known that some of those people are from up north One of those mouths who did the shooting And the name cregan had been mentioned Cregan is over money by tony barrett who lived in hern bay So that was why he was in hern bay. He wasn't in hern bay to see me So what he'd done he turned up to see this fella and remembered where my mate lived and he'd knocked on the door to see if He could get older me but he nicked my mate's dad's phone Right, he's nicked my mate's dad's phone. My mate's dad didn't even realize right. Where's my phone? Where's my phone? before he lost it Dowel cregan. Yeah, only went and handed himself in the fucking police station without phone Well, so I believe he handed himself in the police station without phone because I never helped him get out of the country Do you know I mean and that phone connected to my mate's dad My mate's dad got nick never broken the law at all in his life. Never been it with a parking ticket He got nicked his son got nicked another straight goer never been nicked before fucking spud is here. Yeah for four murders Yeah, do I mean then they're banged up in strange ways. I'm in spain. I've heard about him getting nicked I was like, what the fuck next thing you know bump my doors come through in spain. I'm nicked I'm coming out of the gym. They nicked me four murders. Do I mean? I was like, what the fuck? And then we all come and then all the intelligence set me free, you know, because again Peter fury and Aaron Coglan was sitting down as a mediator for Dave Campbell on the meeting and the intelligence suggests that We come to a formal agreement because basically on the meeting I said, look, if you don't want to pay me the 1.6 million quid I'll take because he's trying to say I don't know you this I don't know you that this happened So there's a load of biologs a load of life. So I said, I'll tell you what I'll do then, right? Just to keep it simple I'll take 10% Right. So I said, Peter, I'll accept 10% right. So I don't want 1.5 million quid I'll accept 150 grand about that and I walk away right And everyone was happy. So we all shook hands and we left right And that was how that meeting got left The police that laid me down when I went on that meeting Followed me all the way home followed Peter fury all the way home forward Aaron Coglan all the way up Right, and then that intelligence came out in my trial. So what we're saying is that Dave who was wired up talking about all this stuff is trying to get me to implicate myself in other crimes and stuff like that and The intelligence to come out in the Cregan case was that me and Dave it says that me and Dave Campbell was former criminal associates Right, so this was police intelligence confirms that my man Herbert and David Campbell are former criminal associates And they was involved in a dispute in the later part of 2011 which resulted in financial debt The police intelligence suggests both men bought each other ill will right so when all that happened I've Demanded all this to be released in court on my trial because they're trying to say that Dale Cregan whose Dave Campbell's young star Was using me as an exit to the country and I'm saying it don't make sense At that time my mgm had started. So I was an integral part to mgm. Well, I was done everything I've got it over there as well. I got I got the the legal documents I got from court Yeah, you can send us that we'll throw up on the screen any way when you're talking about that So it all come out that I'm an integral part of mgm I've started rehabilitating the kids now Maybe I said I got nicked for the firearm because when Dave Campbell's legs got broken when Dave's legs got broken My ass got raided Right. Yeah, because it was you accused of a dude done that broke his legs. Right. So I got nicked and when they searched my ass they found A clock they found a clock All the sprays Coshes I know every weapon you need in that world like knuckle dusters blades All that I've had a bag of tools in the house. So When I got nicked I got nicked for the the firearm in the house What was the moral of that? Yeah, so I got nicked for the firearm So I've been nicked. I got nicked. That's when I got nicked for the firearm So over the Dave Campbell they've compromised Nick me and that's when It all went sort of Pete Tong for Dave his life just sort of spiraled out of control. He's under police protection, you know Every time I come to England I was put under Robbo any time I went to Manchester I got arrested do I mean like I weren't allowed within a I got told I'm if I get seen within 150 yards of his house The police are going to take that as a direct threat and deal with it appropriately But I'm the sponsoring on his drive. So I knew what that meant So I stayed away from him and stayed away from everyone in Manchester until I got nicked and then when I got nicked I had to prove that I would know part in that so when I got nick for the firearm That was a quite that was the point I got it for the firearm over Dave Campbell Now the reason why I never went to prison in spain is because the chief of the local police Said that I do too much good work in the community by keeping the kids off the street and away from crime So that's what I started doing After my shooting in spain and that's what I was the I was like the starting of the foundation of mtk sort of thing like helping the young kids the spanish kids Learn boxing and english like all the kids had to bring their homework to the gym I said all the amateurs, right? So all the amateurs had to bring their homework to the gym If they had school reports of a bad, they weren't allowed to the gym like there was that good days bad days But you got away before that anyway. Yeah See your life, it's um why I'm surprised how you're not dead or doing a lifa. This is it's unbelievable to me But you say you hear a voice or a spirit. You're obviously here for a reason And that's what I've realized. I've heard for a reason and the beauty of life is you have totally transformed your life Even though this story you're telling me now is is a roller coaster people are going to be thinking what the fuck What the people can't believe it and I've interviewed over a hundred people now I believe that story be one of the most viewed and most watched because the power in the story of the thing you've went through To know here we are now the changes they started to make Why did you start making the changes to go wait a minute? I don't need this fucking life anymore Do you know this is the madness, right? This is the madness Because of no love I realized no one loved me. I actually realized they weren't my friends I've done everything in like and everybody that knows me knows me, right? So I do what I do because I love you Right, I do what I do because I love my manner like someone said it to me went to a 50th party last week So I had a party over um hamster hamster thief and um either one of my young one of my old friends So he said no, I remember you remember a kids brother used to look after everyone like no Like I'd fight everybody's battles and if you was out and you was from my manner you were safe Like I'd fire stab shoot and do what everyone needed to do and I was prepared to kill But I never actually had to if that makes sense. Yeah, I mean so I I was It was just everything Do I mean doing everything and everything and everything that everybody wanted to do Whatever people thought about doing is what I used to do. Do you understand? And I'm thankful that I never personally had to kill people What was that moment for you then that you decided the fuck this enough enough? I'm getting all of people using me No, it was it was it. I was I was in the hospital No one come to see me No one come to see me and I thought what are you fucking scumbags man? How can I not even come? and then when I'm ringing people Or not answering the phone and making excuses that it's 70 pound of flight return like how can you not come and see me I'm thinking wow the things What I've done for these fucking people What I've done for these people like I fucking got stabbed up for you. I got fucking cut for you I went to prison for you Do I mean I had ag for two years for you like what the fuck like and it was never ending Never in the amount of debt I've gotten for people like Everyone knows the drug game right? So if I've got someone bow for a bit of gear and they go out and spend it all the money They do the bollocks right in a couple of months time they owe 40 50 grand I've actually gone and fucking stole that to pay people's debts and they couldn't come and fucking see me in hospital Do you know what I mean? And I was like thinking what the fuck and that's why I just thought you know what fuck England. I'm not I'm not doing it no more. So then I made real Real relationships with people that actually the open my eyes, you know, they open my eyes to reality in life And I know one of my pals gets a lot of sticking them in the Irish media at the moment, you know, but If it weren't for these people like I don't say it Daniel Kinhan right now He gets a lot of bad press but I couldn't be here today if it wasn't for Daniel Like and I couldn't be here to give you this interview. I couldn't be legitimate Because these people the principles and the morals they have actually woke me up to reality. Do you understand? Like and it's It's something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy the life I've lived. Do you understand? Like because I've done it as an opportunity to change things and get out of something I haven't done it because I wanted to I've done it because I had to I never felt I had many choices or many options growing up as a kid Right, so that's what I felt I had to do and I felt victim to the normalization of the insanity Like many thousands if not millions of people do it. Do I mean like it's fucking nuts to live that life Like every day day in day out. So Just reflecting on saying this is coming to me Edna I come in with my camera guy because I was being doing obviously I'm getting a lot of footage of everything I do right so I've walked into Myers one day and I got out a bit of mail Right, and it just made I feel so you know when you look down you see Marvin Herbert Yeah, I like I've never I was never allowed to be able to have a registered address a car registered to me in fear of retaliation or in fear of something, you know, so having my own my own home address like bills to my like bills in my name. I've got a bank account like I actually feel normal, you know like and it's It's a shame that I wasted 40 years of my life to get to the position that I'm in today when I know if I'd have listened to the voices that I was hearing as a kid Correctly growing up. I would have been a billionaire already But I put my assumption and expectation on the voices that I heard So it was telling me to do things and you're gonna you're gonna be the biggest You're gonna be the baddest you're gonna be the richest you're gonna be But I wasn't meant to be doing it in a illegitimate world. I was supposed to be in the legitimate world I've come into the legitimate world in five years and I've made such an impact Already, do you understand? So I know where I was supposed to be and I know why I went through what I went through and I know that because of my journey it gives me The experience to sit in front of anybody And that's the powerful thing. Yeah, come on man. You never made no money selling drugs. What money do you make? Right now they're all they don't talk about making money, but mate You'll juggle money. You'll handle money. Like I was at the top of the tree Right and they're spinning billions Right, they're spinning billions, but they're losing every month every year every week every month losing Catch up juggling from pizza ball. You know, I mean they're living a good life handling a lot of money But the actual profit margins They're very slim Right, but the lifestyle is great Do you understand? Because you subsidize the lifestyle by creating more debt Do you know what I mean? And then you shuffle the debt with products and people. That's a wild notice. So The penultimate turning point for me in that world After getting shot, I was still in it. So I was doing a few bits and pieces I'm doing a little bit of weed here and there Yeah Not just a little bit but doing enough to to sustain a lifestyle to live in Marbella And live around do I'm traveling business class or whatever I wanted to do So There was a few kids and we had these encrypted devices They're all fucked. They're fucked Right, so we had these encrypted devices So you send a product to someone and then they send you your cash. So you we got the delivery That's all done in a certain way crash ban model crash ban model So there's one kid I've given them a bit of graph and I've got a few kids grafting But I'm giving them the graph the money at graph prices not at a street price. So People paying 19,000 pound for something. I could get it for 11. Do you understand? So there's no way you're gonna get in debt. So these youngsters now They're falling behind Falling I'm thinking who the fuck is this little cunt these fucking little sheds man. How they always behind? They're taking a piss out of me. Yeah, they're taking a piss out of me They've got to be fucking like this little cunt up All right, sweet. Make sure you find out who it is because obviously I've known a lot of older people So I don't want to do someone and find out it's my powers nephew or my powers cousin or so So always find out who the person is who's gonna get her Fucking found out it's my son's mate And that was it that was that was the penultimate turning point in my life So I just sort of thought I went to him. I called him. I said, look, I need to see you So I said listen youngster. I said, you know, that's me. You owe this dough to and he's like What I said, brov I'm gonna give you an option and you can have a take it or not I said, you can owe the money And pay it off But you're not gonna be paying me. I'm gonna sell you that to someone else because today I'm coming off the road Right, but what I will do for you if you come off the road with me today. I'll wipe your debt right So what do you want to do? Do I pass your debt on or do you want to come off the road? He said, what are we gonna do? I said, I don't know mate I said, but let's just get in the gym for the next six months and see what happens and he said All right, sweet because in his head, he's thinking I don't have to pay that money. I'll just say, yeah And then fuck him off down the lane. Yeah, so he started coming to the gym every day. He was a little fat cunt After six months, he's ripped up. He's ripped and he's gone into this business done this business done this now he sort of manages I think The most up and coming artist this country's got and he's got three or four coming up behind him and they've turned over three four hundred grand a year So he's doing well. So he changed his life. He's changed his life around as well. I like you changed his life It's not yourself. Like I said, I'll talk him to the water and I'll give him the incentive not to continue on the road that he was on because How I looked at it when I sort of Got to the point of my life where I wanted to change, right? I actually got to the top of the ladder Right, I got to the top of the ladder where a lot of people in England don't get to right So I was involved in the far gaffe Right and a lot of people don't realize how that works. So being involved at the level where It comes from the far gaffe it gets sold in Africa. It gets sold in Europe. You've got all your profit You don't need to send it back here. Do you understand? So I'm earning money and then I'm watching All these people here getting nicked getting shot getting killed Why Why because of me How long is he's gonna last for? It's got to be forever Do I really want to cause his pain and suffering forever? Do I really want to be involved in this when I used to mug off drug dealers? Like I wouldn't pay for drugs up until I was 24 I refuse to pay for drugs. So I used to take drugs or people and just say what ain't paying you what what And that was how I used to do it and it's not people. I used to take got people got your gear on you Yeah, I just pull out one of 50 so they lighten up and I say how many here? I guess it's seven of them. They give me the seven. I'll just knock them out I'll just walk off or pull it all out saying pain you've been paying for drugs you little mug piss off So I was a horrible bastard of a man growing up as a young individual in that world and The slap in my face was that I'm going to be the cause of all the devastation for the next few years if I continue doing this and I'll just weren't I weren't I'm trying to look for the right word but It's just like I weren't prepared but it's not it's bigger than prepared. It's just I didn't want to be responsible for the death murder and suffering that I was going to be causing by Transporting and helping transport the products and being a cause of a problem is something That I don't want to be I want to be a solution. So my mindset switched to a solution. How do I do that then? How the fuck do I do this? I then Who do I know has done this one of my pal He was another guy the most egotistical kid. I've got the photos of him in here as well Most egotistical kid growing up. He got nick for arm robberies loads of arm robberies like And I'm doing 25 years and got out now. He's turned his life around. He's a legitimate quantum surveyor now But he's deals with 102 300 million pound contracts all over England and that right so He had something called a nor initiative which done intervention motivation speaking and all that sort of stuff But he was the most egotistical. He had to have the fastest car the biggest watch when we were growing up as kids, right? Like we none of us had lots of money, but we all had the materialistic acquisitions right so He transitioned transitioned into this world At the same level And I thought well if he could do it I can do it So then it was either when I got off of the Dal Cregan case It was either go back to Spain and pick up where I left off right or Make a step So I took the the step of faith the leap of faith. How was it for you coming out that leaf after being in it for 40 years? Do you know what? I'm a great believer in the spirit world, right? So it was something that I wasn't frightened of because I know I'm always going to be okay I don't know how I know but I know I'm protected. Yeah, I've got invincible spirit. I've been told that by my spirit guide I've got I'll send you a reading that I've had done So you can hear I believe know that I'm so and tune. Yeah, it's unreal and I know it and I've known it for years But now I'm in the right place with the right products with the right energy We're going to get the right results and I do believe that I'm put on this earth to make change So what change am I going to make? I want to change the mindsets of the youngsters not to be drug dealers grafters and gangsters I want to create billionaires Do you understand because that's what we've all got inside of us And if I'd have gotten the journey now because I have it with people that worth hundreds of millions now Do you understand? I've just done something for someone as one of the most wealthiest people I know And I had to live in his house Do you mean to help him overcome certain things and get through certain things and deal with certain things? I'll get his mind in the right place put him on a training program eating diet and doing things correctly now So we've got we've got so much to offer everyone and so much to give because of what we're being from So now I understand the wealth in my journey. I'll now have to make it a value to everybody So I'll do that by giving you know, so your value will be You're under strength now you can take your eye take your hip your knee But your soul will never be broken is too pure Listen fucking crazy. Yes being through a lot of shit. Yes Understandable, of course because they went what you went through as a kid But everything you've went through sometimes you're the chosen one Chosen people to go through all the misery the pain the heartache see the suffering the shit that you went through yourself You've got to feel it also as much as you can give it out You must feel the pain and you have came to such a certain point where Fuck it enough is enough where you can make your changes So when you speak now people will listen why because you haven't through the life of misery You've been to hell not just once but many fucking occasions Do you know what I mean? So you must be proud of yourself for what you've come even when you talk you can feel you Have your heart and your sleeve even that motion speaking about your mum your dad You love your dad you clearly loved your mum you try to protect your mum But you still wanted to show the respect for your dad But it's still hard because you've still got all that trauma and pain for such a young age So it's understandable what the fuck you've went through for what you've done man And what you're doing now to helping kids to speaking at schools to planning for the future It's a beautiful thing one. Do you know what I've got to say this now, right? No I'm gonna show you now because this is amazing, right? Right, this is amazing. So This is a response. We just we've just lost a bid, right? So this is what hi Marvin. Hope you are well Unfortunately, we came second in the hmp bid To g4s Right. So we come second to g4s, right? Um in the program They scored marginally higher on a couple of questions Than circle. So it was very tight In something we scored much higher in a g4s the rehabilitation and resettlement work we we we made we we Beat everybody with the rehabilitation and resettlement programs that we're going to be going in because that was I was going to be Have a department in a prison. I was going to get my own keys and everything for something And we only come second to g4s for doing that and that was with me and Andy Pritchard done that from the ap foundation because I work with Andrew and he was like The driving force when I was saying earlier that I used to get paid for my car bits From the coke and all that sort of things. Well, that was the Channel because he was the older lot to us younger lot and everything that was involved in Like we just we all become part of the same energy stream. So indirectly Me and Andrew have been connected for 30 odd years and but directly physically for the last couple of years And that's because I believe we've both changed our lives In ways this a synchronicity. Yeah, it's never people come out and then you leave for the team But there's always a connection everywhere. Some people, you know, 20-30 years ago how Life is fucking a weird thing how people come back in again Whether he's on a wrong path at a time then come on a good path and he's connect again. Remember the guy I said earlier about Mango, you know, they're fine. Yeah. Well that same geezer after I come back from um Ibiza I've tried to contact him For years I could never contact him Do I mean I could never get hold of him and now I actually look back retrospectively and I remember now Basically, I never met him or Andrew back in the day Because if I did Then it would have been a lot more Chaoticness a lot more madness and because the energy added a plan for us all It put us all back together because even young mango We come back together last year and he's doing exactly what I'm doing now in Birmingham Yeah, I'm saying you've put a lot of people through heartache misery yourself, but we spoke earlier and you've actually met a couple of victims to apologize and Just give you to say sorry that you weren't that person. How was that feeling? Um, there's been a couple of occasions basically I've been a little bit of the ag I've had people contact me the victims people and contact me and said look We understand it weren't personal. We don't want any problems with you Is as far as you're concerned and we're concerned is it done and dusted? I've said, yeah If you want to make it personal get a bit of retribution then you can do what you like Without consequence like I've actually gone back to people that I've hurt People I've stabbed people have been shot and actually said to him look You can do me back. I never meant to do it. I've just lost it, you know because I was nuts. I'm not embarrassed to say that I was absolutely nuts like I'm not proud of the person I was I'm proud of what I've come through but I'm not proud of the person I was because I hurt a lot of people for For nothing really, you know like for ego for reputation like For nothing. Yeah, and some people are possibly could have ruined their lives you know the damage of cause people like there's a few people that I've reflect back and I thought I wonder where I've happened to that Giza. I wonder where I've happened to that Giza I wonder where I've happened to that Giza, you know because people are just minding their own business and they've just stood on my shoe or bumped me the wrong way and I've absolutely Oblivorated them stabbed them till they stopped moving like I say I've never killed anybody but I've never consciously Killed anybody so I thought he's dead. I've done that. Do you understand but People might have died from their I don't know. I don't know trauma is real pain suicide Do you know what I mean? There's so many different factors, but the fact is that is the past Yeah, you're here now So going forward for the future the things that you're trying to do. What is it? You're you've got planned We've got everything planned. Basically. I'm looking to get My own training facilities. So the marvinherbert.com is my web page The marvinherbert limited is the new company. It was dispute resolutions before and g-max global So now basically what I'm doing I'm drawing up programs. So all the young kids now that are getting Groomed and ready for the road. I'm going to try to get into their minds and show them that you can be a billionaire Buy food and the courses and the workshops that we deliver. I believe I'll make them believe me Do you know I mean and like it don't matter who you are if you know how to invest Yeah, and you know how to work hard. You're going to be successful in the legitimate world It's not complicated, but you've got to have the right team The right plan and the right strategy and then it's a success Like I know some people now and they're not the brightest tool in the box, but they will have hundreds of millions Do you understand like and these are people that I refuse to even socialize with when I was a kid growing up To me, there was all fucking it is. I can't speak to them. Yeah, it's all fairies But they're worth they've got helicopters. They've got jets. They've got big mansions. They've got chateaus. Do you understand? So I actually see the difference like I became I nearly come to me them It's a word for it. Fuck It's not that me leave it will pop into your head So basically Right, so I'm I became a successful criminal but amounted to nothing Right, so I never actually became anything but a successful criminal Do you understand so All that energy if I would have put that into becoming an architect Uh as quantum surveyor An electrician don't I would have been able to build grow Invest build grow invest build grow invest and then sell bits and pieces Listen mate for coming on today and telling your stories phenomenal for everything you've went through First of all, you should be proud. You're doing amazing things man. I can't wait to see what you're doing in the future Man, it's a beautiful thing. Yeah Would you like to finish up on anything? I I've paid the price physically Materialistically and financially for the crimes I've committed. I've been penalized through penitentiary and incarceration Physically, I've been stabbed 20 times. I've been cut 14 times. I've been Shot five times. I've been hit with axes chopped in the head with axes all sorts You know I'm saying so all these things have happened because of the life that I've lived You know, and I've been incarcerated. I've been beaten. I've been tortured. I've been shot But that was my consequence to my actions So of the trial and retribution Of my life has been lived and accepted and I've become accountable for what I've done And now it's about engaging with the youngsters and letting them know that it ain't worth it It's really not worth it. And you're not going to be that multimillionaire You're not going to be able to retire wealthy. It can't happen. It's not set up for that. It's a lifetime of ag Deprivation prison and death and that is all it is and if you want a life for that Then sign up if you don't then don't bother because it's there. It's happening You're getting a prison. You're getting shot. You're possibly getting Stabbed like all these things are going to happen stabbing shootings cutting prisons robberies like it's going to happen to you Like unless you're the robber stab a shooter yourself It's going to happen. You've either got to be the yin or the yang but evil way. It's all bad or bad so why being here at all when Lee every major villain Every major villain does turn the age of 40 50 years of age tells you Fuck I wish I'd have done something different Right, I wish I'd have taken it There's some people they're actually caught up in it still they're loving it And I actually feel really sorry for them, you know, because It's no fun. I wouldn't wish my life on my worst enemy. I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it I wouldn't do it mate, you know, yeah Marv We're coming on a big man in town your story's been an absolute pleasure honestly. It's phenomenal I wish you all the best for the future. Keep hustling big man Yeah, come on. God bless. I see it. We're on it. We're on it