 Oh, and welcome to Discovery, Knight Foundation's weekly program on the arts. I'm Priya Sarkar, director of arts at Knight Foundation. And today we'll be discussing resilience and the importance of adapting during and beyond the pandemic. Thank you for joining us. As we all know, this year has been one of rapid change uncertainty and in many ways loss. And all of us have had to adapt to these changes to find a way through. But what does it mean to adapt? And how can we get better at doing it? Late last year, Knight Foundation supported trainings in Detroit and Philadelphia for arts organizations on adaptive capacity. Those trainings were designed and facilitated by EMCRs who has been doing trainings of this type since 2005 and we'll drop the link into the chat if viewers would like to check out EMCRs for more information on adaptive capacity. Our guest today is John Jarbo, founding artistic director of the Bearded Ladies Cabaret in Philadelphia who participated in that training and have really run with it. The Bearded Ladies are a true for performers who produce shows tackling the politics of gender, identity and artistic invention. John himself has many distinctions to her name for her own performing roles, including having been commissioned recently by the Guggenheim's works and process to create a piece that was produced during the pandemic. The Bearded Ladies promote art that is intellectual, accessible, entertaining and meaningful all at once. So what does that mean? Well, before I bring out John, let's take a look at a piece recorded by the Bearded Ladies during lockdown. Social distancing. Oh, yeah, of course, yes. Do you want some hand sanitizer? No thanks, I've washed, scrubbed, and I'm wearing gloves today. Nobody wants my hand sanitizer. I'm sorry. Well, what do you do, Cookie? I mean, do you drink? Smoke? Binge? Netflix? Everyone does that. So you just sing beautifully. I mean, you like it, it really gets the rage out of you. You know, one thing I admire about me, I admire about you, one thing you admire about me is that when you sing, you really sing out. You know, you really, really belt out at the tune. I mean, there are not many of us left. So who are you anymore? You know, me and Eliza. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Come on. Come on. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. We heard you from the street. Well, of course, I was belting. Were you belting? Of course, were you belting? Of course, I was belting. We're always belting. We're always belting. We're always belting. We're basically belting. We're belting. We're belting. We're belting. Do you need any hint? No, I sanitize at home. Nobody wants mine. Well, we should do a number, shouldn't we? I think so. We just need an arpeggio. What's an arpeggio? Notes going up. I think I had one of those last night. Oh, yeah. Okay. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. It's like show business, like no business, I know. Everything about it is appealing. Everything that traffic will allow. Nowhere we get that heavy feeling, and you're stealing that extra bar. There's no people like show people they smile when they are low. Even the turkey that will not go far leaves you standing in the cold. So you wouldn't trade it for ours. Let's go, let's go, let's go. Fine, how are you doing? Good. Okay, thank you. That was Cookie Diorio, Martha Graham Cracker, and our guest, John Jarbo. John. Hello. Hello. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks for having me. It's wonderful to be here. Thanks for showing that very silly video. Thank you for letting us. Yeah, Christopher Ash is the filmmaker on that video, and Pax Whistler did the piano. Very silly little experiment we did. Wonderful. And that was, I believe you said that was based on a, actually a video that was done from the Judy Garland show. Is that right? Yeah, the Judy Garland show when Barbara Streisand was on the Judy Garland show, and then Ethel Merman stood up. And then we've done a file. It's Portion Trilogy, so we're trying to do three, but we've only done two so far. We've done one with Cher, Diana Ross, and Beth Midler. And it's really a pleasure. The whole purpose of that project is just a pleasure and giving some joy in the midst of all this craziness. That's great. Well, thank you for sharing that joy with us and our viewers today. So, so I'm really excited to have a conversation with you about how you and the bearded ladies have been adapting during this time and just kind of what that journey has been like. I wanted to just kind of start with a bit of a, a provocation from EMC arts is moniker somewhere becoming rain, which for me helps me think about a mindset that maybe is required to be able to adapt. One doesn't discover new lands without first consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time. And I feel kind of like that's the moment we're in right now. I wonder if you could just tell me a little bit, you know, the Beards have been on a journey. But if we were to rewind, say to about this time last year, how, how would you describe, you know, the bearded ladies and, and maybe how, how you thought of yourselves or your community, maybe how you thought of your mission or purpose. Yeah, I think exactly a year ago we had, we were going through a pretty big change. We started in my living room 10 years ago. And with very little resources. And we attached to kind of these larger companies that needed, needed content, wanted some queer energy and, and develop shows in my living room. But a year ago we had, we were doing late night snacks, which is like, which was a new cabaret festival that we did 30 performances over the month of September featuring over 75 artists and groups, all in that kind of cabaret nightlife, some from opera. But a bunch of, I would say, Queerdos and I, this is a very positive term for me, like, like arts misfits, people that work in the liminal spaces and between things. And we were creating a platform for those artists. And hosting those artists, both in terms of having them into our space, but also being there to host and welcome them. So that was actually a big, that was a kind of turning up of the volume on something that was happening in the Beards a lot, which was that we have a strong vision. Sometimes we like homemade goods, like we'll make a whole play for you with music. And it's our ensemble, it's people that we know. And then there's this other thing that was starting to develop where when we first started, we created the Beards and I created the Beards to be a space where I feel like I could be seen and heard. Because I wasn't finding spaces like that in traditional theater and doing mediocre Shakespeare musical theater. And I think we've realized since then that the Beards can be that space for other people. And so that late night snacks was kind of the first, well, not the first, but I think the largest manifestation of that happening. And what was so nice about that is that right after late night snacks, we went into this EMC arts training. So that's where we were. I think we were actually like in a shifting notion of our identity last year. Interesting. So then when you went through this, this training, the workshops and just kind of became, maybe introduced to or more familiar with this concept of adaptive capacity. And some tools that folks can use to become better at adaptation. I'm just curious, having gone through that, what does adaptive capacity mean to you? How would you describe what that, that is for the bearded ladies? I think it was really helpful about the EMC arts training and that process. I mean, the first thing is just having time to think, to think in a more meta way about, about how you're doing the work, like just having that time and also that time among colleagues. There were many other different arts organizations of different sizes. Having that was a gift, but also the fact that adaptive capacity, it's about us. It's a spectrum of like how structured and planned are you, how adaptive are you? Are you, and I think thinking of it as a spectrum, because the beards actually like went into that being maybe very adapted, maybe too adaptive sometimes, because we've been very responsive to, we're, we're cabarets of responsive art form. And when you start in your living room with a bunch of cardboard, you're pretty, you're like, I'll make the world in this cardboard. You know, so I think what was so useful about us, and I think we also came into that, that, that session, thinking of ourselves as this like tiny little barnacle that would attach to larger whales in the city. Sometimes I even say not to be blue, but we've like sleep around a lot. We're like, Hey, can we use your house for a little bit? I know we slept over last night, but can I like make my breakfast here? So we, we've, we were like this little barnacle that uses the resources of these larger institutions in the symbiotic relationship and then detaches. And I think what some of the work with the MC arts was helping us realize is that we are also our own whale of sorts. And there's a whole community of artists that are also working with us in symbiotic relationships. And that we, we have a responsibility and values around making sure that we're the most robust, like thoughtful whale in the, in the, in the ocean. I'm really going with it. Go, go, go as far as you want. But that we can, and that doesn't mean that we stop doing the kind of barnacle work that we've done. It's just that we, we can do that for others as well. And that's our, that's really our community. That's the people that are feeding us and we're feeding them. So that was what was really interesting about that workshop. I'm not sure if that fully answers your question. It does. It does. I mean, I think, I think that's a really interesting and useful illustrative analogy for, for it is for me. And I'm curious as you think of yourselves now as a type of whale. What are there things now that you are thinking about differently, or maybe that you're doing differently since you sort of came to that way of thinking. Or that realization. Yeah. I mean, and this was part of that process with the MC arts was taking a little tiny risk basically. Like doing a little experiment. And what we did is we got a bunch of artists and community people fed and drunk. And asked them about their relationship. To us as an organization. We weren't actually there. We had them facilitate it themselves. And that was another part of this risk is like, like, let's, let's put together this community of artists that, that have been functioning as barnacles in our lives. And see, like, how would they want to design. How would they want to design this relationship? So we're in the process. Now of really solidifying what our relationship to our stakeholders are, which I think in the light of COVID as well, becomes even more important is how do you take? How do you, how are you thoughtful? Like, who were you taking care of before and who was taking care of you and how can when things get extreme, do you not pull away or silo or not communicate? How can you continue that expression of care? Even when you're, when the world wants you to be in a scarcity model. So that was one of the ways that we're really adapting is, is, is putting language. And time and thought and community. Conversation into how we design. How that weird barnacle whale identity is. It's a very gender queer, very gender queer identity, I think, or queer identity, which is totally appropriate for us. So thank you. That, that is really helpful to, to think about. And what I take from what you just shared is intentionality, which is something that I know has, has been, I've heard or read and talked about as maybe a distinction between being reactive to changing things and adaptive where they're, not that folks or that you and the bearded ladies weren't being intentional before in certain ways, but, you know, having the time or taking care of, to think about this and, and sort of being open to thinking coming at it from maybe different angles, then allows you to be even more intentional. And I feel like that's also a theme that has been coming up throughout the pandemic. As you said, thinking about caring for others, others who are caring for us. So I think, you know, caring for others, others who are caring for us, self care has been a theme. And so in that way, perhaps the ability to be more intentional is aligned well and well timed perhaps with, with the pandemic and what we're in right now. Yeah, I actually think for many of the things that we encountered in the pandemic, the beards are well suited to exist in that, in that environment. I also think about adaptability as like a speed boat among cruise ships, you know, like you're prepared, you've got the gas, you've got that kind of engine and the size that allows you to maneuver. You don't know if you're going to have to, but you, you can. And, and I felt like we were particularly in a, in a position because of this training and the way that we think and because we're a bunch of queer people and, and a lot of that, whatever the trauma that's involved in making that happen, instills you with survival tactics that allows you to navigate many different, many different situations. So, so I actually think that beards can be quite good in crisis. Yeah. And that training was super helpful and kind of prepping us for that, but I would say that it hasn't been a huge, a huge impact. Right, right. Well, and, and I would, you know, love to, to hear and for folks to hear more about that impact and sort of what you're doing with it now. And I wonder if maybe we could kind of take as a thread through, through the, the next, you know, part of the conversation, something that you, you know, you just mentioned trauma. And you also talked about listening to and sort of, and really giving over sort of de-centering, I think is what I heard, de-centering yourselves and listening to the other folks that you work with and serve, that you feel you're in service to community and listening to how they would design their relationships with you and, and their activities. And I feel like that has also been a theme, especially with regard to equity conversations, racial equity and other equity and, and a lot of discussion that's been taking place in the arts and elsewhere around how we can, and systemic racism and, and, and pursue equity. So even though you, you didn't say that word specifically, I feel like that's a theme that's coming through. And I wonder if you could just talk a little bit about maybe how, how, yeah, just how, how the Beards are thinking about that or working toward that or just how you view that view, that idea. Yeah. I appreciate that question. And I will say like the context, the context that we're currently in when we're recording this of like having a conversation of art and adaptability also feels really hard because we're on the streets, you know, like people are on the streets and it's a really grief filled time. And the pandemic has been full of that pandemic. And I think the, the heavier thing, which is like the, the uprising and making sure that we're in support of the movement. Noelle Diane Johnson, who's an amazing artist does warm weather, or warm weather Noel, a kind of healing practice in the city who also works as a curator with us has been asking the question, like what is worth it? What is worth doing right now? Which I think I'm trying to think about our current context as an invitation to be more thoughtful about what is worth it. And what we do and like when we post and what we post about and when we leave the house and why we're leaving the house, trying to use this all as an, an invitation to that. I think we were already in a conversation. We've been through a process with a brilliant, with a brilliant artist and kind of thought leader and consultant, Matthew Armstead from Philly. We were actually doing a kind of review last year of equity. In the Beards. And we're actually deepening that relationship right now. We've created a position called the, um, um, Buds beard on Buds person. Which is a silly name. And so Matthew's joining us on throughout the year, checking in with both the staff, the team that we have, and we have an amazing team. I'm, you're only seeing one person right now, but, uh, Brandy, Matthew Thompson, Sally Olive, uh, uh, our production management team. They're incredible. So it's a whole group of people. So Matthew's checking in with the team and with all of our artists throughout the process and has the ability to pause a process and stop it and say, let's have a conversation. This is not the comfortable time to have the conversation, but we're having it now. Um, to try to make sure that we have systems of, uh, harm reduction built into our work. Um, uh, that feels very, very important. Um, Right now. And I think also, uh, You know, you know, working with our BIPC artists that are like in our community and centering their work. Um, so we did a video with cookie D Oreo from, uh, for visit Philly. That was all dedicated to black artists in the city. And as I say, we sleep around a lot. Um, and we think that there's a lot of power in partnership. So we're in the midst right now of, uh, We also partnered with spiral Q, which is an amazing, uh, Puppet, uh, street theater company and girls rock Philly, which is run by the brilliant Sam rise. Um, on that video and we're partnering with them and other organizations right now to, uh, work on this truck idea that we'll, I'm sure we'll talk about at some point to have a live mobile performance unit that goes around the city and can be used for protests and performances. Uh, so it's really, uh, I think it's deepening the way that we're doing our art. Um, Uh, and at the same time, I think, uh, The Beards and our artistic community are constantly shifting gears and, and asking the question, you know, is it, is it worth it? What is worth it? Where are we putting our resources? So definitely in process and especially in process on that, um, Uh, today and in the past week. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Um, I, I think actually it's a great time to learn more about the truck and, and some of these other efforts. Um, I'm just going to mention, I want to, uh, let folks know you, we will, uh, be, um, Doing Q and A in just a couple of minutes. Um, so please drop your questions for John into the chat. If you're on zoom or into, uh, The, um, Facebook live and, uh, we will, We will get to as many as we can. Um, and before we do that, uh, John, I know you have some images available, uh, That you can share with us as you tell us a bit more about some of these Activities that you just mentioned. Could we go to that? Yeah. I'm going to share my screen. Get excited. Um, I try to close all my million tabs. Okay. Here. And I'm gonna press present. Look, a drag queen doing technology. It's incredible. Um, uh, so this was us in 2019. Um, this was a late night snack space. I was thinking about that EMC arts metaphor about like leaving the shore, uh, and going to new lands and, and, uh, We are traveling a lot in the city. And I think also the thing. About, uh, Being adaptive, I guess, is asking what question, Like what questions you have to ask. And when you're going to new lands, those are not new lands to everyone. Uh, So like what is the history of the location that you're going to. Um, which we're thinking a lot about. And with our late night snacks process, we build this in conversation with a community. Um, we build a cabaret space with a community It lasts for a month. And then ideally that space will transition to a local arts organization or have a future. That is designed by our collaborators in the community. Um, It's really cool. So we were quite happy in our live space and then, uh, COVID hit and we had to adapt, adapt, adapt. These are animals. If you don't know what animals are, It's pretty clear from the woman turning into a starfish. Um, Uh, so one way that we're adapting, and this is the way that many people are adapting right now is we are going digital. How we're doing that is we're doing a 12 hour. Um, marathon of cabaret from around the world. So we're taking that project that you saw in live space, which incorporated international and local artists. And we, we decided, well, one thing that we can do really well is resource and connect to our international community. So each hour is curated. Um, by a different artists from a different city. As an expression of love. For their cabaret community. So that is feeling really cool. And that's it's 12 hours. Of course, people's attention span is about 12 seconds right now. So why not give you 12 hours of content? Um, but it's very MTV nineties. And we're trying to think of a digital cabaret is a different food group. So I myself have done a lot of the performing in my home vibe stuff. Uh, and that this is, this is higher quality, a little bit more focused and made for video, um, specifically. Um, and, and it's free and accessible. I think that that's important. It's on Twitch on October 17th. That is me and a banana custom. Uh, then, uh, we are. Oh, I skipped ahead. We're also like sending boxes to people's house so that, because cabaret is kind of like a space and a mode of performance at the same time. So there's like a tablecloth, a, uh, a shot glass, a drink recipe, a, a, a, a 12 hour candle, um, some bubbles wrapped up to look like poppers, some mints, lots of silly stuff, uh, that can make your home space so that we cross into the live divide. So that's our version of digital. Um, we also bought a truck. We did a lot of work fundraising at the beginning of COVID. For these ideas. Um, and we've been really grateful to have support, uh, from our community, uh, because people are so excited about this idea in particular. So we bought this truck. It's, uh, it's a 15 footer. And we are in the process right now of converting it into a mobile stage. Um, we're working with producer cat Ramirez on this. They've been really wonderful. And, uh, and in our conversations with cat and our curation team, we've adapted this to be even like we've, we've gone through so many iterations of this project. And at first we were just like, Oh, we want to perform cabaret on a truck. And they were like, Oh, we want to perform cabaret on a truck. And we could use this. For protests. We could use this to go to your block and give you that party that was connecting your community that you didn't have before, or to go to your block and to celebrate. Um, to celebrate the, the person that's delivering groceries to everyone on your block or the person that with that great garden. So it's really expanding our notion of what artists are. Um, and so we're in the midst of, uh, a lot of the work that we're doing right now, like as I speak, we're painting and building this truck. This is a design by Joey Tony. It will be a bearded truck. Um, and we're loaning it out to different organizations. We're partnering with lots of people. Uh, so that once this truck gets going, uh, in the late fall and spring, uh, It can be a resource to the larger community. So really excited about this idea and also how it plugs into the projects that are worth it right now. That's the end of my presentation. That's great. Thank you for, for sharing all of that, John. And I, I love the fall season on the truck. Um, it feels very, very right. She's high. Um, so we have, we have a question, um, uh, from David. How has the transition to more digital content recalibrated your under understanding of boundaries and how to challenge them? That is such a great question. I'm in a box. I hate being in a box. Um, uh, I mean, there is something like delicious about seeing people's living spaces. Uh, the beard think a lot about boundaries because we're often in spaces where there's a lot of touch and intimacy and direct contact. And so we have all these tools like clutch your pearls. If you don't want to be touched, we have the audience clutch their pearls and that's like a nice way to build consent into things. Um, there's a different kind of consent that, uh, is present online. Um, that we are playing within our hosting. Like we're adapting the clutch or pearls. We're like trying to try and create versions of applause. Um, uh, and wondering like how far we can get you to do something in your own space to like, can we get you to open the window and scream out of it? Um, can we get you to dance? Can we get you to sing? Um, uh, I also think, um, I mean, I guess the boundary of, of who we can connect to and spend time with, uh, we, we felt really limited in our ability to present international artists. Um, and because we've traveled, uh, myself and Sally, all of our associated artists have traveled around the world, uh, making these connections to queer dose. Uh, and so that feels like the way that we're able to access those communities. Um, and be in dialogue with those for our audience in Philly in a way that we weren't before feels kind of amazing. Um, but yeah, it's, it's a great, it's a great question. Um, I, I made a whole video about cannibalism with Rose, which felt, uh, it's called Rose, um, for the works in process. Um, we'll drop the link into the chat. I think we have, we can do that. Awesome. Yeah. Uh, and that was about my gender queerness and the fact that I was told by my aunt that I ate my twin in the womb. And that's why I am the way I am, uh, lovingly told that. And so that felt like it was getting deeper, uh, more deeply. Um, and so I think that was a great question for me. About my, um, my life internally, I guess, crossing some boundaries internally for me. Um, yeah, that's a good question. I think we're thinking about that all the time. I agree. That is a great question. Thank you, David. Um, you know, I'm wondering as, as you're talking about these things and I'm just thinking about the, um, The difference for live performers. physical space where you can feel the energy. And it's not that you can't sense energy through a screen, but it's so different. And I just, I'm curious how that's been for you and for the Beards. Yeah, that's really, that's really, really hard. I did a whole lecture on what's critical about glitter recently for Temple Contemporary. And I sent them all these like little packages of drag to wear at different points in the presentation, which was really lovely. I feel like the more that we can cross the live space, the better. I think that that's why the Beards are doing the truck and the, are trying to do the truck and the digital portion because it feels like it feels like we're not going to get that kind of responsiveness that we need in the visual world. But we are really trying to maximize our use of the chat function as like a new place for the audience. It's really exciting on playing with Zoom about getting people to see each other, seeing each other, which feels like a central part of our work. Like we're less sometimes invested in actually the content of the performance in what the content does to the audience that's in the room. So a lot of what we're working on right now is trying to navigate making that happen in these sort of weird Brady Bunch worlds that we've been forced into. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Have there been any kind of, you know, interesting surprises that you've kind of come across as you've been trying to do that? Maybe anything that, I know, works in a way that you hadn't expected, something, anything that you feel like, huh, you know, maybe that's, I don't know if there's something that maybe it seems like it is, you'd want to continue with even when we can get back to, you know, experiencing Cabaret in person. I think that that is key about adapting, right? Is that we're not trying to invest in things that are short term. We are experimenting and we will fail and succeed and let things go. But everything that we're experimenting with in terms of feasts, in terms of having a digital international festival of Cabaret and in terms of the truck, which will both have a digital element and a physical element will always be living in both worlds. Those are both kind of long term solutions. We're not trying to think within like, what's going to work for the next month? Because as we know, everything's changing all the time. So we're actually thinking about like, what would be, what would give us pleasure and what would serve our communities longer, longer term, even if like tomorrow, things changed. And we didn't feel like we had to be in virtual space as much. So that feels key to adapting. Yeah. The drag, like giving people drag and encouraging them to dress up. And the fact that we're equally weighted in performance, like right now the performance space, you have the same box as I do, I think. So like the fact that we can pass the performance around feels really exciting. And I think also just taking time, which as I speak really quickly, it's like, slow your motor, take a breath, give people space. Because that is one thing that live performers can do that sometimes the digital content that we're inundated with on social media is not going to do. Like actually like tell people to turn off their cameras and lay down and coach them through something. Like give space and breath has been really successful for us. Telling people to touch themselves or like, you know, like finding ways to cross that divide. And avoiding irony and things that distance. Because this is already a distancing form. That's really interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. So you mentioned about the box and how we are sharing kind of, I guess it's in a way, it's a bit, there is equity in certain ways in how these boxes online. And I think that kind of relates a bit to a question from Beverly, which is how is the creative process different when you can't be in the same room as your creative partners. So for example, rehearsal, I'm even thinking about, I was wondering that watching the piece that we shared at the beginning of the show. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, that was, and that was really Christopher Ash emailing me and saying like, let's just do something. I want to experiment with, with this kind of filmmaking. And so I made my video and then Cookie responded to it. And then Martha responded to that. So that was really fun, because we can give each other prompts. And for Feast, I have all these hosts from different cities that are going to, you know, they'll be like, I don't, I have, they're going to like toss, toss a doll. And then, and then I'm going to have to see their video and be like, okay, I got to catch this doll, you know, I don't know why I have a Ken doll. But you can give each other prompts. So that feels really fun. We have a team that spread around not just Philadelphia, but our associate artistic director lives in Seattle. And so it's been wonderful for her to have more equal presence in rehearsal processes. So that's been really great. We do kind of meet on the porch sometime and social distance, talk through things, because I do think there's a kind of creativity that happens when you're in the flesh that you can't have otherwise. And we've managed, I would say to, we've managed to, to with testing and with very small teams have small rehearsals. So you get rapid tested, you do a temperature thing, and we've had some some small rehearsals for filming. Christopher Ash is amazing and has been doing social distance filming. So Rose was filmed with like a camera far away from Chris, that was on a remote sometimes and it could move. So we've been lucky to benefit from his expertise and resources. Yeah, but yeah, just trying to keep an open heart to all of the new new ways that we're, we're discovering each other. Yeah, yeah. So, so I guess as, as we kind of wrap up the conversation, I'm just wondering, you've given us a lot of great ideas of things to think about or be open to any, any other kind of advice or food for thought that you might share as, as you all continue this, this journey of adaptation and resilience. Yeah, I think, I think work with one another as much as possible and communicate that like our truck idea is not a new idea by any means that's happening and has happened in many different iterations. I've been talking with Anthony Rothkastanzo, who has the New York Philharmonic truck, like we were talking with Clark Park and Curio Theater in Philly about our truck, the initial designs. I think that this is an opportunity to, to try to connect more deeply with who your community is and ask yourself what is your, what is your community? Who are you in community with? Who, who do you want to be in community with and deepen that? Yeah, I think we need to in times of scarcity try to be as abundant as possible and thought, which is a hard thing to say and is coming from a, you know, a place of privilege here. But that is what I'm trying to do with my team is try to work in abundance as much as possible. Great. Thank you, John, so much. Really, really great, great food for thought and really appreciate you kind of just letting us into the, the Beards, you know, world and journey with everything you've shared today. I want to remind folks that you can, you can actually share this with folks who you think might be interested and didn't get to tune in live. The link will be in the, or is in the chat. You can watch that on Knight's Facebook page or on our website. You can also check out what the Beards have coming up. I think, John, you mentioned upcoming performances and I think that is and I'm not sure if the October 17th one is part of Philly Fringe or if there's another one that's part of Philly Fringe. It's a little later than the traditional Fringe, but October 17th, it's a 12-bar marathon. You can pop in, pop out, it's on Twitch and if you want to buy a box, you can buy a box or it's free. So it'll be really, really beautiful, wonderful community of artists coming together and the theme of that is what kind of art feeds you. So yeah. It's very, very important and I think on the minds of a lot of folks tuning in today. So that link is in the chat. I want to just thank you again, John, for sharing, sharing with us, spending time with us, sharing, sharing your art and the work of the Beards and wish you well on your, all your upcoming performances and I can't wait until in person I can experience the truck because I am very excited about that. It's going to be, it's going to be really rad and thank you for having me and thank you for like supporting not only artistic projects but also artistic process and strategic thought. That is huge. That is huge and not everyone's doing that. So it feels really, it feels really like a blessing to be involved in that and to have the follow through to get to talk to you about it is really lovely. So thank you. Oh, well, we thank you. We are so pleased to just be able to participate in that. So for everyone at home, thank you for joining us. Please do check out these links and I hope you'll tune in next Friday for our next episode of Discovery. And until then, take care, wishing you safety, health, and joy in art. See you next time.