 This is where I want to start. And since it's two of us and one of you, I'm going to let you drive, right? You brought up, well, first of all, before we do that, what was yours, and I'm going to start with you, John, what was yours kind of take on the entire episode one after you went back and watched it? Like, were there certain things that surprised you, certain things that didn't come up that should have certain things that did come up but watching it back, you found a new perspective on it? For me watching it back, I felt like the conversation was mature from all perspectives. I felt like there was a chance for everyone to get a chance to know each other in conversation. I don't feel like there was too many bad points in the conversation, not too much controversy. Everybody had a chance to share their voice. So I felt like the conversation went well to me. I didn't see any negatives in it. So what about you, boys? I honestly feel like, I feel like there was, oh, first and foremost, I enjoyed it. I didn't think it was a negative, I didn't see any negative in it. And I also understand that no matter how much we have this conversation, a lot of times, it's like we're going to be banging our head against the wall because we say the same things and we're trying to get to the same thing, but there's a barrier that's always gonna be there of y'all being men, us being women. So there's a level that you're not gonna be able to understand. And I think that's where sometimes it can be frustrating because it's like, you have the will, you have the skill. And I think it's probably on y'all's end too, it's like, come on, you sound like you're there, but you're not really there. I just feel like there was a bit of, and probably more so on the female end, a bit of holding back from actual feelings and thoughts because it makes you passionate. And as a black woman, I understand that for us, passion comes out with louder voices and different gestures and stuff. So rather than come out of that character, you're just kind of like, let me just not, let me just, I'm gonna just hold it in, I'm not gonna say nothing because I don't want them like I got an attitude or any of that. So I think that played into some of the things from a female perspective, where maybe all ideas weren't shared on the female end. And like I said, if we're holding back, again on the woman side, it's like the man side, it's frustrating because you don't hear what I'm saying, but I'm not really saying it, if that makes sense. Was no clarity. No clarity because you're not clarifying your actual point. You're like, you're feeling it in here and having the internal conversation, but it's not coming through this microphone so everybody else can hear it. Yeah, got it. How do you feel about this? Cause one of the comments that I saw a lot was that the female side of the conversation didn't come in in good faith. Didn't come what? In good faith. As in like, a lot of people said you guys were listening to respond instead of listening to understand. When you say a lot of people, now I'll come back, was it the men saying that? Yes. That's the block that I'm talking about because, cause you know, I ain't read the comments cause I know better, but there's a block because of the fact that I can say a little bit of that passion, but it's also because as a man, you're hearing me, but you can't understand where I'm coming from because we're just different. I got a question. How do we improve on that? How do men learn to listen more to a woman to where as though we can understand? What's the solution to that? Honestly, you have to find a woman that makes you want to listen and understanding here. And it's, and truly, honestly, the best men that I know still struggle with it, with their partners, their girlfriends, their wives. And it's not intentional. It's because of just who you are. Like my friend, actually all my friends that are married get frustrated with their husbands for like the same small things that happen. Like, trying to find a good example of it because it's never the big things that are big, problematic. It's just those little small things where I think in our mind that you should just know, we've said it before, you should understand that we need you here, but a man's mind is more so this way and women go all over. I feel like most women's argument that's in a relationship is that they don't feel seen. Or heard, they don't feel seen or heard. That's a big thing. And that's what it is. That's 100%, that's what I feel like. Y'all, you're listening, but you're not hearing what I'm saying. But it's because legit, you just don't understand or you don't process it like I need you to or I want you to, and I don't know how to combat that. That's a challenge. I'll put my, I'll use my brother as an example. My brother and his wife, they've been together for, before they were married, they've been together for years and years before that. But my sister-in-law's biggest like issues of what was with my brother are, like they're already told you to do that. We've talked about this before. I said, I don't like it. And he be like, oh man, I forgot my bad. And he genuinely just forgot because it wasn't something that was a big deal. Like I actually pick up some Clorox on the way home and you didn't do it. Those kind of small things, but it's like I've asked you this a million times, like you never done it, my bad. Can you go put this, take trash out? How many times am I supposed to take trash out? You don't do it right then and the woman's mad. But the question is, do you think women actually listen better or that the narrative is that men don't listen as good? Because to be honest with you, when I watched it back, I kind of agree with the comments because there were certain things, there were certain things that I would say or John would say and it was like, and maybe you disagree with me, but there was a sense of like, you didn't hear what I said. You were just ready to make your next point. And it might be to your point about women thinking this way, this way, this way. Yeah, because y'all think linear. You're thinking straight to your point, but the issue is sometimes in order to understand or drive home your point, you can't go straight to it. You have to take a detour. Think about when you're on the highway, you have your path, you go every day from Swanborough to Greenville, but they're doing road construction. There's a detour you have to take. It gets you to the same place, but you gotta go through a couple of different turns to get there. Sometimes in conversations or in things, we get what you're saying, but in order to make you understand where we're coming from, we have to peel back so that we can, and we like to explain ourselves. Women like to explain in a full perspective. That's when y'all say, oh, y'all talking too much, you're doing too much. We can't just be linear. But what's the middle ground then? Because if you're saying that men are linear and women are more abstract and getting to the point, we have three options. Either we can defer to the guy and go do it his way. We can defer to the woman, do it her way. Or is there a middle ground where both people get it done in a way that is, you know, they might have to give a little, but at the end of the day, nobody feels like they had to just completely submit. I feel like it's honestly, the middle ground is the same, not just in those situational relationships, it's universal, it's communication, but it can't be just that one time, it has to be consistent communication. I know for me, I have to write sometimes before I can speak it. I have to, or I have to sit and think about it, but then I'm going to communicate it because I can't let it sit and rest and rest. I was talking earlier, my girlfriend and I, we communicate in different ways. But when we first started dating, she didn't want to communicate. There was a barrier there with her, but I'm going to force it because if we don't communicate, it's honestly going to just festering it bigger and bigger until it explodes. So I think that if we would all learn to just start communicating, even if it gets ugly sometimes, start off the conversations with, let's lead with love. We may disagree, but let's respect each other in it, but let's talk about it. And if it doesn't get too heated, if it's not getting settled, then put a pause in it, leave it where it said, go do something else, come back to it, but people don't know how to communicate. And that's not, I said people, not men, not women. Some people don't know how to communicate. Yeah, I agree. I feel like the foundation to that is who's the first teacher? Somebody has to be the one that is able to take charge. Who did the man grow up and learn from and who did the woman grow up and learn from and then you mesh the two together, if it's the same circumstance? Because you kind of see it as universal. It don't just hit just the black community. It's the same thing. I got a good buddy, him and his wife do a lot of content, but when they're doing content, you can hear that a lot of times she don't grasp what he's saying. And he's of a different origin, but is this just for us or is it just a universal thing? Two ways, three. Where women just don't understand men and the totality of the world? Is it just this whole thing going on? And it seems like that to me from my observation. What about you? I agree and I think this is why we're doing this. I think a lot of women have a, it's this sense of by default, I'm right and you have to prove to me why you're right, right? But by default, my way is better. Just like we're talking about the different approaches to conversation. A lot of women come in thinking that the default should be her way because a lot of women are emotionally expressive. They think they're emotionally intelligent, right? And it's not until they run into a man who's actually emotionally intelligent that it makes them have to reconsider what they thought emotional intelligence was. But I will say our culture celebrates this idea of you can't tell me shit. Like, I think Lizzo's current situation is a perfect example of that. People were talking about she's so brave, this, this and that. And now she's being sued for calling her dance as fat. And making them eat bananas out somebody pussy. So again, this, and I think the same goes for men, but like if you create a culture where people are unchecked for their behavior, whether to themselves and to others, it only like, it builds on itself. And then you have narcissists, whether it's Lizzo or anybody else. But I think what's happening now because of the overcorrection of like female empowerment and girl power, it's creating a lot of narcissism in women. Like most women, you ask them, what happened in your last relationship? Well, he, da, da, da, da, da. Most women aren't able to even conceptualize what they did wrong. And I think that's what a lot of men are seeing. And right now you're seeing men start to speak up and say that, oh, hold up, I'm not always the problem. Hold up, nah, she was the problem. And I think a lot of people can't deal with that. Yeah, I agree. I agree that I'm sure most women feel that way too. But in most household with their relationships, the man voice has been completely stripped away. He don't even have the energy to even speak anymore. Because when he does go to speak, it's, like you said, the woman's point of view was, I'm right. And if you don't follow my way, then it ain't gonna work. You know what I'm saying? So a lot of men have learned to just silence their voice. It's been quiet. Yeah. And you know, it's funny, so I can see that, but I think the same goes for women, but in a different way, they're not silencing their voice to recognize things. A lot of women will just deal with things for the sake of dealing with them because it's like, oh, they ain't gonna get it out to do it myself. That whole, maybe not I'm right, but I got it, I can take it on, I can do this. And I always say that before I got into this relationship, I was one of them, like, whatever, I got it, I'll do it. And you kind of just learn to push down those anoints, those things that frustrates you in that way. And that's not helpful to both of y'all. And to your point, the man stifling his voice, when he has that woman that is, I know it all, is my way or the highway, him stifling his voice is not helpful. So, but the thing about that is, those ones in those situations, to me, it doesn't seem like it's not gonna last or it's not real because to me, real love with another person, whether it be your relationship that way or friendship, all of that, is when you can correct someone or speak about what you don't like and they understand that it's coming from a place of love. It's not coming from a place of demeaning you, trying to tell you better, it's coming from them letting you know that, like I said, who you are is okay, but all of who you are is not always okay because there's parts of everybody that needs work. But if we're not speaking on what makes us uncomfortable from both sides, we're never gonna be able to get to a space where we can have those lasting relationships because even now, like people get married this month and they'll be divorced. For sure. January. Because we're not being true. We're looking at social media, we're looking at history and we're so, I think we're so focused on either harping on the over-sexualization, all that, like what's it, city girl, city boy culture, or deadly do-right, Mrs. and Mr. Smith, like there's those two, and it's not really something that you're doing from your core, you're doing it because of the visual. Because you want everybody to see you in this light or that one because that's what's trending, that's what's popular. And in order for us to get to a space where we're genuinely making each other better, we're hearing each other, we're listening to each other, you have to be able to communicate how you feel, whether it be the positive, lovey-dovey feelings or those uncomfortable, negative feelings that you're feeling about something. Because if you don't, we're gonna keep on having this conversation. There's never gonna be any soul. But I don't feel like, from my observation, a man that has himself set up financially, he don't get that pushback. You see what I'm saying? He don't really get that. So if a woman has an opinion that's dealing with someone who's set up, she's gonna have more of a silent voice versus him. And she's gonna respect his position, which is why most women I feel is attracted to that. They want the position of a man who's financially successful, but they know deep down inside that it comes with certain options, right? So like let me give you an example. If the man is financially successful, he has everything set up for him. He don't really need her in that way, but sexually or maybe a piece of arm candy or something like that. She's gonna deal with things that he'll do versus a brother that's maybe a janitor, right? She, he's not gonna really have a voice in the household. But with the guy that's set up financially, he can pretty much run the show. But those people should, that's again, they're still not communicating because you're stifling your voice. So that's what I'm saying. Like it's just, if you stifle your voice and you just deal with it, then we're never gonna move forward. And to me thought process is like that because I've never cared about someone's financial stance because I was raised to go and get it for myself. Whether you got it or not, I'm always gonna have it. And I'm never gonna ask you for it. I'm someone, I've never even been comfortable taking money from a man. Like how you know girls like, oh yeah, he gave me this, he paid this bill. I don't need you to do that because I don't want you to have power over me. That was my thought process with it. So I don't think that that's most women thinking about the financial aspect and that it's gonna be, oh let me shut up because he got the money, where the pants, he bring home the bacon. And maybe that's a little bit of what our problem is because men really think that women have that mindset like, oh yeah, if I got the money, I got the flash, all this, that's what I'm gonna gravitate towards. Yes, there's those women out there that do that and that's my like city girl, city boy that want to be reformed, they do that. Or those ones that grew up with that idea in their head of what their life is supposed to look like. So they may gravitate towards a man that's more financially secure inside of their voice, but those two people shouldn't be together because at the end of the day, you're not being your true self. And if you're in love with someone, if you're in a relationship, y'all are working on making each other better, you both should be able to blossom in all aspects of who you are. And if you're not, then you don't belong together, you're doing what society wants. So that's still not, I mean, that's still not. I'm just trying to figure out why, why is it more of an attraction for women to wanna go in that direction? Why do they wanna go in the direction of a man that they know that they're gonna have to listen to because he is set up financially and she's not gonna have a voice. That's changing, bro. Right? That's changing. It's changing because. Yeah, cause I don't see that as much. Yeah, cause a lot of the brothers even who follow the channel are well to do, but especially brothers who are trying to date now, if you're trying to date women who quote unquote have their own, they might mess with you but cheat on you with the janitor. Oh, for sure. Like women now are, I think the reason why we have so many growing pains is the fact that back in the day, the power dynamic was a little clearer. Right? And there was a, it was easier to understand why grandpa needed grandma and grandma needed grandpa. But now a woman who has her own in the whole nine, she's looking for you to play a different part, typically than used to be necessary back in the day. So yeah, I think women are still going to gravitate to and give more respect to the man who is better. But we're finding like some women actually go for dudes who are lesser than them. You know, kind of like we're talking about off camera because they're easier to control. They don't demand as much from you. They, it's an ego stroke knowing that he needs me. For sure. So I think as women continue to go in that direction, it'll get harder for us to find ways to communicate because with that ego growing, I don't know if women are gonna be as willing to communicate or replace. Yeah, I see what you're saying. So they want to do this, gonna play the PlayStation all day, come in his house, not really contribute to the bills, but. If he's exciting. If he's exciting, yeah. Because I think there's a premium on excitement now. Just like what I'm talking about with sex, like people are bored, right? So stability now is boring, right? Predictability is boring. You have to be spontaneous. You have to be unpredictable. Now those things don't necessarily translate to good husband and father, but the reality is people aren't going for marriage the way that they used to. And I think it's only gonna keep going in that direction. Some people don't want kids like they used to. So if you take away marriage and kids, I just want excitement. So stability isn't gonna be at the top of the priority list like it used to be. So now it's about the dude who's exciting. Now it's about maybe flings, as opposed to long-term, long-standing relationship. Maybe now long-term, long-term, long-standing relationships are now, instead of people getting married in their 20s, now they're getting married in their 40s or 50s. Yeah, they're taking their time. Yeah. And I think we're gonna have to deal with that as a generation. Yeah, I mean, I can see that for sure, the transition and everything's taken place because I mean, from my observation and the people I talked to that's in relationships, that's married, that's only been together maybe two, three years, you know, they ready to part ways. That's it. That's why they be divorced so quick because they don't do the work individually. Yeah. To truly come together and realize that I want health. In their defense though, I don't think there was a time where marriage was better. I just think that what happened is... It was branded that way. No, no, no, I think it was graded differently and it wasn't as easy to get out of. Oh yeah, for sure. Back then it was graded on how long have y'all been together? So we could stay together for 30 years. It's miserable 30 years to other people, we're a success. This generation is saying, no, it's not about how long I've been at the job, it's about how well I can do it. And I think this transition is not just with love and romance but it's across the board. Back then a smart thing to do is find a good company and work for 20, 30 years to get your pension. Nowadays the smart thing to do is job hop every one and a half years and increase a double year salary every single time. But I'm a quitter job. And I think it's only going in that direction and the other thing too is I think it was easier for grandpa to just know that he got the baddest one in the city. Ain't no Instagram to see who's in the other cities. Maybe once in a while you might get to go to Memphis and do some shit and come back home but nowadays you open your phone and every opportunity or possibilities at your fingertips and then you combine that with the fact that we're not grading ourselves based on how long we can be together, marriages are not gonna last long. We're not realistic with ourselves a lot of times. Back when I was out here dating, I didn't date realistically. I dated potential. I would date what you were saying but not the reality of who you were. Come on now. You know what I'm saying like. That's the fairy tale I'm already talking about. You're talking real nice and you're saying all this stuff that we could be and we're gonna do. We're having that whole all night on the phone texting all that kind of thing and not realizing you're not really doing the things that I myself want or need to feel secure with you. So I'm in my head thinking, oh, I'm gonna be with him. We're gonna make it work. And ignoring that. Yeah, we talking and we texting all the time but about when I can't get in contact with you and you give me some lame excuse. We make up these dates to do things and you flake. And I'm just like, oh, it's fine because I'm busy too. I'm working too. But I was really dating what I hoped they would become. And I guess to y'all's point, I wasn't helping myself because I was doing those things like I was already in a relationship. Because again, once I care about you, I'm nurturing. I'm gonna make sure you don't ate. If I'm out and I see something you might like I'm gonna pick it up. And I'll never say I was doing too much because it was genuine for me and it's who I am. But I was doing myself a disservice because I wasn't dealing with the reality of who this person was. And by doing so, because I'm still giving you the cookie pie. So like, I'm there. Like you said, there's no incentive for you to do anything different because you've got what you needed. And you're in this place where it's comfortable. I'm not forcing more from you. So you're good. The minute I start being like, okay and trying to demand more, you out is my fault or it shifts. And toward then the Aquarius then becomes out. I've got to cut you off because now I realize or you ain't gonna give me what I want. Boom. Instead of me communicating with you and seeing if possibly there could be more. So like once I've gotten to my point where I'm like, you know what I'm doing? It was it was done. So I never gave the guy an opportunity to learn. But even though he like said, y'all, y'all can agree. You know you're doing me wrong, bro. You know you're stringing me along. But I never truly like voice those emotions and feelings to them or try to, you know come at a different angle. And I gave so much upfront. It's like, who's fault is it really? Like, yeah, you did me wrong, but I did myself wrong first because I allowed you to. So you would say woman fall in love with the idea I mean, not all women, but with women. And sometimes a good part of us go off of potential rather than reality. But I think that was the mistake. Not the fact that you gave too much. Right. Yeah, it was me. It was who you gave it to. Yeah, it was definitely who I gave it to because like I said in my relationship now, I gave those things and it's been reciprocated. The cookie pie. The cookie pie. Don't shoot that. My stuff needs cookie pie, no, no square, box, all that. You know, no, no square, no, no square, no, no square. Real quick. Like in college, we had a song and my friend was like, stop, don't touch me there. That is my no, no square. Shout out to the Woo Crew. But like, like literally it was literally on me. But then my girlfriend, I started communicating when I'm like, okay, we need to move this along because I feel like I'm doing a lot, but I came with my own growth. Me understanding that we're entering into this different level of the relationship and I want to make sure that it's clear what my intentions are. And then she was clear what her intentions are. But I never had the maturity on my end to have those conversations. Do you feel like it's different now in being in a relationship with a woman versus being in a relationship with a man? 100% different. So you can compare that. Who do you feel listened more? Neither my girlfriend hardheaded. I'm just playing. I feel like, and it's hard for me because some of my best friends are men. Like one of my guys friends called me bro. So then they listen when I like vent my problems out and give good advice back. So I don't think it's men versus women who listens better. I think it's a, do you give a damn or do you not? Truly, do you care enough to listen? Because there are some great male listeners out there. I will never say that all men don't listen. Men listen very well when they want some ass. 100%. But honestly, men listening to hear you, well, if they care, doesn't mean you always get it right. That's the point I was making earlier. Like y'all don't always get it right. You listen and you try, but again, sometimes with that linear thought process, it just goes awry. I got a question I want to ask that you said that because men listen well. I mean, we listened very well. But the thing is a woman will break up with a man that don't listen well and go spill a beans to a man that don't listen well. You see what I'm saying? You understand what I'm going with? They haven't done the work on themselves and done themselves the service of life. You understand what I'm saying? So it's like, in a woman's mind, they say men don't listen well. They break up with the guy that didn't listen well. Then they went to another man that they know don't listen well and spilled all the beans from the relationship that they was in. That man listened well. When he listened, he played nice with you to get everything that he wanted from you. So he listened well. And you fell in love with that all over again. You see how that cycle continues? So we kind of go through this cycle of, this man ain't listening to me, right? So I fall in love with the idea that there's another man that will listen to me, right? So it's like, for instance, me and you in a relationship, I'm not listening to you. You go find one of your friends, your homeboys, and tell them everything that's going on in a relationship. He listened to you. He makes you feel comfortable. He makes you feel secure. Enough for you to come out your panties. Then you realize he don't listen to you, right? But you pretended enough to get in here. I'm just saying this. You know what I'm saying? Men are pretending like women pretend at some times. But she knew that the whole time is what I'm saying. Women follow this cycle. You see what I'm saying? They go through this cycle of, they'll say men don't listen, but then they'll find a man to listen or they think he's listening, enough for them to be comfortable, enough for them to have sexual relations with them all over again. But how is that the woman's fault? If the man is- That's not the woman's fault. But that's the cycle. So that is what men have to work on. It's like, she don't know when she's first started talking in a devotion to this dude that he ain't gonna be no, he ain't gonna be shit. You know what I'm saying? Like she doesn't know that. And he doesn't reveal his true colors until he's pretended to be this person that she wants and that she desires. And then he switches up once he's gotten what he wants. So at that point, from a woman's standpoint, well, what's going on? You've given me out. My feelings are now in it. So I'm attached to you. And now I gotta think back to, okay, before we did all this, he was giving me this, doing this. So that potential kicks in again. I know he can be like this because he showed me that he is this person. So maybe I just gotta switch this up, start from my voice here because we love each other. We're feeling each other. Like you see what I'm saying? Like it's like you set us up for the Okie-Dote. So we don't, we can't read your mind. We don't know that you're gonna fuck us over in the end by pretending. Even if she's walked through that door 20 times. She's walked through that door 20 times. You walked through your house hundreds of times. But I bet you on something you'll tell on that damn bed post more than once. Yeah, I'm saying if she's walked through that door 20 times, I'm saying, does she take the accountability factor into place to say, okay, well, I've been down this road 20 times. I've heard the same story 20 times. I've been through the same experience 20 times. Why do I still fall for the same dude is what I'm saying? Because you don't know me that dude. My point is, so if the woman is falling for the same dude and the same characteristics, right? Okay, I hear you. You're saying, I hear you. I'm saying now, when is the accountability stepping on her side? I know the man is playing a game. I know he's doing what he's doing, you know, play the part. I'm just saying, when does she say, you know what? I gotta choose a better option. But how do you do that when you don't go in, like you don't go in dating the same dude you just left. Cause you made the point, you said that you find this dude, he listens to you. He's giving you what you want, what you express. Maybe it's not clicking with you that you told him how to treat you and he's gonna manipulate that and just to get what he wants. So again, it's like, yes, it's a vicious cycle, but who's to blame for it? Cause it's not like we're going there saying, I'm gonna find the exact same dude treating me the exact same kind of crappy way. We're not doing that. Like we don't know until we're in it. I agree. But the point- And at the point we're in it, maybe we should turn around and end it right then or communicate how we feel, but that's if that man is pretending. Like let me give you an example. If you graduated high school, right? You got your degree and whatever it is, there's gonna be an interest of what man you choose to have a conversation with a date. In most cases, most women are gonna choose what they're comfortable with as far as communication wise. Can I go hold this conversation with this lawyer? Probably not. So I'm gonna choose the dude that's probably got a smaller business cause I got mine and I can have a conversation with him. I'm saying that most women will date with an uncomfortable spectrum. What I've seen, most women will date in a comfortable spectrum. They will never go outside of that spectrum of comfortability for them to even explore something different. So they run it to the same circumstances situation from my experience. But I think ultimately what it says is that listening skills are not as important to y'all as y'all make it seem. Exactly. Because I would actually say when, if I was to like hold a group of men and a group of women, I think if I was to ask them what are the top five characteristics you want from a partner? I think men would actually rank listening higher than women. Ironically. I think women would hit a whole bunch of things before they got to listening. I think on the face we would assume that but what we see being rewarded in the real world is not listening skills in men. The best male listeners are not the ones get, the men who are successful with what I've learned is the men who can make her the most comfortable. Exactly. Is listening like part of that sure but it's not a big part of it. It's just allow her to let her hair down. But if you let women tell it and if you let these mothers tell their sons, yeah, be a good listener. Buy her flowers. When it's really not ranked as highly as some people would lead us to believe. I feel like- That's the point I was making. Thanks for clearing it up because if you really think about it, right? We get a bad rap for not being good listeners, right? And I'm not saying we don't listen in a lot of senses. I'm not saying we can't tune our ears up a little bit. But the reality is y'all will leave us and go to another man that won't listen to you or appear to listen to you and you'll fall in love with the idea that he's listening to you. But the reality is, you know, he's really not. Yeah, it's not as important as I'll make a scene. It's really not. It's important down the line. I don't know if I would say it's not as important by like a ranking because this is where again, I think it just comes to that roadblock of you being a man, you'll be me and me being a woman because maybe you guys like to deal with the numbers and the rankings and all that stuff. No, I think we wanna deal with what's gonna give me in the door. I think y'all like to deal with what's gonna keep you in the door. But as soon as that, you know, men will say like, if you hit once, you can hit again. We feel like whatever I did to get to Harvard is gonna be enough for me to graduate. Whereas women are focusing on the things you have to do to graduate. When it's like, at that point, nah, you got you. You bonded to me. I gave you the good meat pie. Bye. No, you didn't. No, you didn't. And you were saying it was the point. So my thing is like, if we want to see, just like I was saying in episode one, if we wanna see a transformation in the male delegation, it starts with a transformation in the female delegation. When women start rewarding men for listening, we will see better listening men. Until then, y'all just talking. Until y'all start saying, okay, you have to be dressed like this. You have to present like this, talk like this, walk like this to get my cookie pie. Until that happens, you won't see that. In fact, what you, because to your point about men being linear, a different way of putting that is men are efficient. A different way of putting that is men are lazy. We want the path of least resistance. And currently, the path of least resistance is not the stuff that y'all claim you want to see from us. And that's the confusion, especially when I think about young dudes. Cause we're hearing one thing from our moms and this, this and that, but out in the world, not my homeboy who's smashing the most girls. He's not a good listener. He's not nice. He's not kind. He might make you laugh more than me. Come on now, you know, and that's access because like they say, you make me laugh, you get the ass. I mean, that's just how I go. But a woman to tell you that if he's, if he's, if he has a personality, they fall in love with that more so than anything else. They overlook every circumstance and situation about the man if he is this type of person that can entertain them, make them feel good, make them laugh. My biggest thing, my biggest thing. I'm gonna come back to that. Yeah, definitely. My biggest thing with this whole man is fear and, you know, relationship talk stuff is a lot of men, unfortunately, haven't had the opportunity to really learn the reality of women. And I think a unique opportunity we have nowadays, like motherfuckers talking about Sukiyana and all these like ratchet ass women. But one of the benefits is women today are far more honest than women of yes the year. They're far more transparent than women of yes the year. Women haven't changed per se. They're just more vocal and bombastic about who they are and what they want. And now we have to deal with that. But a lot of men I think are too in love with their idea or ideal of who they thought women were and what they thought women want. And they don't wanna divorce themselves with that. And that's why I think they get caught up and they get got by women who know how to play the part. And that's why, for me, I appreciate women. Yeah. Even if we disagree, like she's authentic. She's being honest, cause then I can deal with that. I can't deal with Too Faced over here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Decide, yeah, go ahead, I'm listening. So, before I come back to you, so y'all been saying we ain't vocal, we're not choosing the right people, but then you say that we are more vocal. So I'm kind of confused on it. Y'all are more authentic. So it goes back to like, I was talking about emotional intelligence versus emotional authenticity. I mean, I'm sorry. Emotional intelligence versus emotional performance. Women have always been more emotional, emotionally performative, but that doesn't mean they're emotionally, now it looks that way because she's gonna cry, she's gonna laugh, she's gonna, but those emotions, you just throwing them at the wall and seeing what sticks. And the idea is that women are more in tune with their emotion. And it's like, no, they're not. What I'm asking for women to do is continue to be more honest, but also in that honesty, be real about like, yeah, we saying we want a nice guy and they grew biased flowers, but that's not who's getting pussy out here. That's not who, you know what I'm saying? That's not who gets our cookie pie moist. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So then men can react accordingly because if that doesn't happen, what you're gonna have happen is men either have something traumatic happen to them or they just, they grow up, they hit 30, 40 and they realize, oh shit, my whole life is a lie. Going back to the whole idea of the red pill, the matrix, you wake up and you realize, oh shit, this is all bullshit. And then you create monsters. But I think if those men's mothers, the women in their lives, the media was honest in saying that, yeah, women say they want this, but it's more complicated than that. You have to be this, this, this, this and this first. And actually, forgive you for not being this if you're this. Yeah. Now we can move accordingly instead of being upset and because the Corp of Men's anger is like, I was lied to. So. Yeah, for sure. At the Corp of Men's anger being you were lied to, you were told to disservice, you were sold a dream. So what men do in response to that is sell women more dreams. To your point of view, become what you need to be to get the cookie pie. Yeah. So. It's a vicious cycle. It's a vicious cycle. It's a vicious cycle. And it feels like, it feels like from y'all's perspective, it's you're putting the ultimate resolution back onto women to fix this problem because you want us to start demanding all these things and having this list and all this. But if we start doing all these things and trying and it doesn't yield those results because the man is a chameleon and becomes what we need until he gets the cookie pie. Then we're back where we started and it's just gonna keep on going. So where, yes, women have to take their accountability in the part that we play by because we do whole power between our legs. I understand that. I do understand that if we withhold it and demand these things, it very well, could alter and shift and make both sides, well, let's shift on both sides better. But again, that doesn't negate the fact that the man a lot of times becomes what he needs to, to catch the woman that he feels that he wants. Like you say, the one that's got the money and the power that wants the woman that is the tin, cook and clean, bear my babies. You want that, you become what you embody what you think she's gonna want. So in the same way we kind of change up for it, men do it too. So men have this. I disagree. This is what I say. So when women are upset at us, they call us dogs. I don't think it's an insult. I think men are absolutely dogs in the sense and good, bad and ugly in the sense that men are trainable. Just like you said, men are linear. We are myopic. We are very singularly focused. And with that being said, we are not as dynamic as women like to think we are. Oh, we know. And so my point is, my point is like, Lee could probably break this down better than I can, but like dynamic range and photography and videography is the ability to see the details in the light and in the darkness. Women are far more dynamic than men. That's the song I'm Every Woman. A woman can literally be 15 women at once. Men cannot do that. And that goes back to what you said about potential. The problem is women fall in love with who she wants us to be, not who we are. I've been telling women to fall in love with projection, not potential. I remember you saying that. So with that being said, if women were to look back at these exes that pulled a rabbit out of a hat and tricked them so well, they realized that that nigga was not a magician. You were just naive. I don't even want to say naive because naive makes it seem like y'all didn't know. I think y'all fully know. It's just you would rather believe the fairy tale. For sure. That was my last relationship 100%. It's blue pill in a way. I would rather, I know this is bullshit, but I would rather, so I think if the reason I keep bringing it back to women, if women start saying kind of like in the 50s or the 60s and 80s, you have to have a top hat, double breasted suit to talk to me. Niggas will have top hats and double breasted suits tomorrow. Now some niggas will be bad at doing that because that's not who they are and the facade is not gonna last. A woman can look at a man and say, okay, this nigga wears suits regularly versus this nigga going to court. Right? But over time, what we'll see is men being dogs, being singularly focused, being straight line will adjust themselves and become that to suit what the female delegation is literally rewarding. For sure. But until that, and if women decide that I would rather live in my fairy tale, then you will have these bad magicians. That's all these men who get women are. I've been that, they're just bad magicians. I wasn't lying to her. She wanted to believe the bullshit. Yeah. For sure. Well, I think men, I think it's a little dream too. That on the last episode we talked about you were saying that if women said that they don't want no more life skin brothers, right? That was a valid statement. And I've been saying this for years that it's gonna take the woman to change the dynamic of the reality that we're dealing with because I have so much power and influence. I don't feel like y'all wanna step up to that plate. Right. Y'all don't wanna step up to that plate because if y'all knew that y'all can raise better men, right? Be better wives, create better environments. Why wouldn't y'all do that? It's the question. I feel like it's happening, but it happens in those relationships that are not glamorized on social media. But we're talking about on the macro because the thing that annoys me about this female empowerment movement is, in one sentence, there's this Sister Mother Goddess reverence that we now have of women. Women are God, this, this and that. Okay, I brought up it during a podcast that I did and I said, okay, what's the number one killer of black people? Food. Food. What part of culture does the female delegation own in any community? Food. So if we're serious about changing things as a black community, can women own that? And I got so much pushback. Oh, you wanna blame the women for the heart disease and oh, I tried to cook good for my boyfriend and my husband and he fought me and this, this and that. But it's like, you don't get to own all the critical acclaim and all the benefits of having authority and having power and being a goddess without any of the responsibility. For sure. So if you wanna be a goddess, here's a list of responsibility and here's a list of things if they go bad, it is your fault. And I think the same thing for men. So when we see the insecurity in the black community that's black men's fault. When we see the fact that a lot of boys would rather go into athleticism as opposed to STEM that's men's fault. But if we see kids who can't read at grade level that's women's fault. And what's wrong with us saying that? They'll say the daddy, the father won the round. They'll still put it on me. They'll still put it on the father. And to your point of being able to just acclaim that, just that responsibility, right? Just to say, okay, well, I'm gonna cook better for my family, my children on a nurturing level, right? Like instead of me giving my kids the udus and noodles, I'm gonna give them the fruit, right? Just raising her awareness to that point to where as though she can say, you know what? I am gonna equip myself better suit to be able to raise this family and to be a good spouse to my husband, to be a leader or goddess or whatever she felt like she wanna be at the time. If she can't even step into that line of responsibility, like you're saying, what makes her valuable enough to demand all of these demands that she's having for a man today. Yeah. So, I'm gonna be honest, when you first started your spiel in my head, I was cussing you out. I'm not gonna lie because the whole is your fault blaming their trigger words. But as you continued and clarified, God let me get all the way out. I did, that's why I just said here, I'm cool, I cooled down because I was hot in the pit for a second, but I cooled down and I'll explain why because women have taken on a lot for a lot of years, especially black women. And to be blamed for things like the whole, like if you're analogy food, that is my best way of showing someone that I love them. If I've never cooked for you and fed you a meal, I don't really rock what you like that. Like, we cool, but now I'm sorry I said for no damn food, Alan. But I'm just, that's where, like that's me and it's like, from the perspective of, okay, the food is unhealthy and we're the ones that make it, I go back to my mom being a single mom who didn't always have time to make, oh, let me think about how nutritious this meal's gonna be. But I know these chicken wings, these pork meat wings, gonna feed a lot of people at one time and it's gonna be quick and I ain't got to be in there all day. Plus I gotta check my kids homework to make sure they're spelling and reading, and go over the spelling words so it's correct. Make sure that they're doing their schoolwork. Oh, and I gotta make sure the house is clean. All that fell on her. So inside of me gets offended when you say things like that because it's like, first the motherfucking off. We're the ones that are keeping things going. So I think that's probably where a lot of women come from because that's, like I said, you PM old me just now, real bad. But I understand what you're saying is when you're talking, liking it to where men are failing, I get it. So in my household, my girlfriend has come to the stage of a lot of our health problems are connected to our food that we eat. So we need to start eating better. I was hesitant at first. But fuck you, me. Cause who the fuck wants some candy? Everybody get them collards. I can put this pork fat in them and fuck them up. You know what I'm saying? But I had to understand, you're doing this so that we can be better. So while I'm not gonna completely go, okay, I'm gonna go full force edit. I understand that you're coming from a place of, you want to be healthy, you want to be better. And I cook the majority of the food in the house. So I need to work on what I'm preparing. And it's made a difference. Now your girl like, I never thought I would like it. I'm more open to trying those things because she showed me the way on it. And we're both women. So I get what you're saying with it because I wouldn't have had that thought process to try more things if she hadn't of put that in my head and like put it out there to me and showed me the benefits of it. And now I'm briefing the benefits of it, I understand it. So I understand where you're coming from where we have to be the ones to kind of put our foot down. But like I was over here boiling. It's frustrating because with all that we do and all the hats that we wear in a day, a week, a month, a year, it's like, oh, blame us for something else. We don't get the credit we deserve all the time but we get the blame. That's from my perspective. Even though you said what blame men have, what I heard was what women did. And the things that I do and work too hard to show my love for my family, like cooking, you're criticized. It sounds like criticism when it's really not but it sounds like it. I'll say this. And again, this might not hit well either. But I think back to your analogy about men being more, this and women being more this. Have y'all ever seen that? It's like a meme or a short video of a kid who's supposedly drowning but all he needed to do was stand up? Stand up, yeah, I saw that. That's a lot of women. A lot of women put themselves in more difficult situations to then get credit for their ability to navigate those difficult situations. And I think that's where I want to bring the conversation back to because even the example of the woman who is working three jobs to raise five kids and the whole nine, she was the same woman and a lot of women will say, well, I was young and I was dumb, who made the decision to get pregnant by four different men who she knew would not be responsible enough to take care, but then we frame it. We start the story a lot of times. And I think this is what frustrates men with, she's busting her ass and she's doing quote unquote, the best she can to now take care of five kids without starting the story in, she put herself in that, now, and I understand it's more complicated than that. A lot of women have trauma and it leads them to sexual promiscuity that inevitably leads them to having multiple kids and a more difficult life and they have mental health issues in the whole nine. But again, I think the bigger picture is you cannot own the praise without owning the responsibility. And I think a lot of men now are saying that, hold on, wait, I've been taught all my life to give mom praise for doing quote unquote, the best that she could. Now I understand that she could have done better. She could have done better from jump by not getting pregnant by my quote unquote, dead big daddy. She could have done better from jump by not doing all the different things that she did to traumatize us, to take out her trauma on us. So this idea that we continue to push of like, women are benevolent and they're always just doing the best that they can. That goes for men too, but that's not part of his narrative. It's not part of his narrative that he was touched when he was eight and that's why he ended up being a man whore. He was touched by a 21 year old woman. You see what I'm saying? So my thing is, okay, I want our community to improve. This and this and this and this is what I think the male delegation needs to do. This and this and this is what I think the female delegation needs to do. And these are all the ways that each delegation should take credit. And these are all the ways, the same ways they need to take responsibility. I think we frame it as blame because that's what it sounds like. That's what it felt like to me. But it's not blame. It's ownership. It's responsibility. So if we're saying black men are God, black women are goddesses. What's your domain? Yeah, you gotta step into that responsibility. You gotta be that whole heartedly. From what you walk to what you talk, there has to be the essence of who you are. So it brings me back to the conversation about ownership. In my household, I'm God of God seven. It ain't just God of God seven because that sounds like a good name. It's God of God seven because I carry myself Godly and God-like. So if she sees that and the kids see that, they follow that. They don't just be like, oh, this is somebody that has a unique name that sounds catchy. This is the person that's getting in the kitchen, juicing, waking up four or five o'clock in the morning, hitting the treadmill, whatever it takes. I'm emulating change so that it can be a reflection so that my queen can be a queen and not just one who states that. So if she doesn't reflect what I am, I don't reflect what she has reflected, then it's null and void. Makes no sense. So like you're saying, if I'm taking that responsibility and she's taking that responsibility, then we can see the manifestation of what a family unit should look like. I'll say it because I just thought about something when you just said it. I think part of our issue as a community is religion. Y'all stay with me. For sure. Because when I thought about this whole God, God is phenomenon, we are taught that we can never blame God. He may not always come when you need him, but he's always on time. God never gets any blame. So now if you think of yourself as a quote unquote God, you don't associate that with responsibility. You don't associate that with, blame just associated with authority. And I think for some black men and I think for some black women, that's where this narcissistic ego is coming from of just worship me. Just focus on everything about me that's lovely. Just focus on everything about me that's great. But don't hold me to any standard. If this goes wrong, it's not my fault, it just happened. And you should be glad that I'm here with you to watch it. Yeah, you're 100% right. Because when you think about like, with my lady, we've been together 10 years, when I first met her, as she started to transition and change, right? I decided to give her a name. And I said, well, you know what? Your name is going to be Queen Refinement. And she said, why are you giving me that? I said, because you went through the process of refining yourself. You've decided to change because you wanted to change based on the information that was given to you. You just didn't just, I just woke up one day and said, that's who you are. This is what you earned, right? I didn't just give you a title to yourself. And she had to learn to walk in that. And one day she came to me, she's like, I think this is too much responsibility for me. Right? I was like, what do you mean? She's like, I think it's too much responsibility for me. I said, no, it's not too much responsibility for you. It's just that now that you're aware to who you are, when you look in the mirror, right? I've taught you to do that. Look in the mirror at you, right? It's never about me controlling the dynamic of the relationship. It's about the value of what I instilled in you to control that. And once you got that value, the only person you can look at is yourself, right? It ain't me no more, it's you. Because now you are the reflection of what I am. You just can't, it's no more, you want to be in control conversations, right? It used to be that, right? And to bring it back to men, like me being a father now, I've learned so much and I've gained such an appreciation of masculine energy. Because even now, like I'll notice my little daughter, she's two. And her mom can say sit down, but she says it in such a loving way that she'll sit down and she feel like it. I could just look at her and she runs to the nearest seat and sit down. Because she knows that like, my first job is not nurturing. My first job is get your ass in line, right? And I think what's happened because a lot of our families have been just that maternal nurturing energy, people don't know how to take the, this is what you need to be, this is what you need, because no offense to y'all, y'all's nature is to cuddle, to love, to the worst-behaved dogs that I've ever come across are dogs owned by women. Yeah. For sure. Think about it. I'm thinking about my baby. She lit my girl listens. She didn't listen to all that. But the best-behaved dogs, those dogs don't get on the couch. They know daddy gon' whoop your ass. Exactly. But the women, I ain't just... Sleeping in the bed with them. Oh no, we don't play that. I'm just saying, in most cases, right? You see certain, like to bring up the dog factor where the woman is okay with the dog going outside, then jumping in the bed, where the man ain't gon' go over that. So there is a difference. And it's not to belittle a woman in any means. It's just to be informative on just these small changes can create such powerful influences, right? We just look at you say the macro. We just look at the macro and start making adjustments to say, well, just let me cook a little better in my household, right? Let me hold a healthier conversation in my household. Let me not just always live my trauma in my household, but let me live what has changed and influenced my life in my household. You see everything starts to change. Even, yeah. And the thing is women, and this is what inspires me, but also kind of breaks my heart about this whole thing. I think y'all don't give yourselves enough credit. For sure. Women are freaking powerful. Even in this mannispheres space we're talking about, the whole red pill. Some of the most successful creators, as far as lucrative, are women. For sure. In a space full of men who hate women, the most successful creators are women, which tells me that female approval, female insight is so, even for the men who aren't conscious enough to recognize it, it is so, so, so valuable. So what I'm telling my sisters is, listen, if y'all want to see better men, you have to be better women. I have to. Because Melanie King get a lot of pushback. She get a lot of pushback. They don't even like, you know what Melanie King is? Melanie King is, she's like the female version of Kevin Samuels. I don't believe her. Right? I don't believe her. But I'm just saying, she get a lot of pushback. You know how she kind of fell in that whole space. But the beautiful point about that is like with her, if you listen to her more than five minutes, you know she don't know what the hell she talking about. Yeah, I know. But because she look good and she's saying, what niggas want to hear, she's one of the most successful in the space. Exactly. So if, what I would like to see instead of this mass movement of women telling us all the ways that we are failures as men, if that energy was being put into, okay, what kind of masculinity are we rewarding? And what kind of masculinity are we nurturing as well? Just like I said during episode one, the worst men you will come across are men raised by women. Yeah. And the best men you will come across, the quote unquote most shivarous men you'll come across, are men who are raised by their fathers. For sure. Just by their fathers. Yeah. So what does that say? It's not to say women are not necessary in raising boys, but women play a part either in our ascension or our doubtful. Even with daughters. Even with daughters. Fathers raised some of the best daughters. I mean, statistically, I mean, it shows that the father, if the father is present, he has a better impact in the children's life than the mother. So I'm gonna circle back a little bit then come back. Because when you were speaking about your wife and how you bestowed upon her this title, what you do is because you spoke life into her. You reinforce things in your home. You lead by example. So you pave the way for your family. Yes. You show them through your doing what you expect. So they have, like your children have the example of what a good man does, how he treats a woman. Most of us were raised by single mothers. Yes. Who don't have that example. So we're taught to fend for ourselves, to be strong, to survive. We're taught survival. We're not taught how to love. My mama didn't even bring, like she would let guys come, like a couple of guys come over, but it's only like two or three, select ones. I never saw my mom kiss a man. I don't even think my mama hugged a man in front of us. Like I never saw a healthy male, female relationship with my mom in a man. And any guy she was dealing with, you better know you come over there and be respectful to us because she didn't take no stuff, but like I never saw it. So I had to fend. The only other relationship I had to go off of was my grandma, my grandpa and his wife. And all I saw out of that was my grandpa drove her around. She did the cooking, the cleaning. He didn't really do much else, you know what I'm saying? Like he worked and provided for the household cook sometimes, but really he was just the man and she was the woman that kept the house going. But I wasn't there all the time. It was just randomly that I saw them, you know? So from my perspective, I lacked on understanding what a man was supposed to be, how he's supposed to behave, how he's supposed to do, make you feel. I have an older brother who's like my protector. He made sure y'all make sure I was safe. He taught me how to fight in case I had to defend myself. So I wasn't like, I feel like I missed out by having the male influence there. So even to y'all's point, it's about who raises the best people. We can say yes, if it's just the woman and there's a bunch of negatives with it, but if the man is missing from all of that. Women don't thrive in survival mode. That's the thing. Women can, and that's something that's kind of fascinating. Like true authentic femininity can only really exist when it is being, I don't want to say shepherded, but safeguarded by masculinity. Because when it's not being safeguarded by masculinity, femininity turns into masculinity. For sure, I totally agree. To your point, because I, needs to be a very hard person, very hard. And can my friends would tell me, also it wouldn't click, but one of my greatest male influences besides my brother is probably like, Lee, let me know, all right, Portia. And so you coming from, but you got a cool bag. You got a peel bag. But he also explained to me why I had to peel bag. It showed me a better way. Let's put a pin in it, cause that camera's off. Oh Jesus. Yeah, we've been going. Oh my bad, my bad. We're going to pick up from there, episode three. So please make a note of that, like where we left off. Because I'm going to start with you. And also for episode one, yeah, absolutely. Episode one, you brought up, when men get their stuff together, they leave you for a good woman or whatever, a white woman or whatever the case might be. So we're going to pick up there as well. Thank y'all, thank y'all, thank y'all. Oh yeah, I didn't know what time it was. Yeah, great, great show tonight. Yeah, this was great. I like talking to y'all. We touched on some good topics. I was cussing you out, but then you brought it back.