 Okay, then I think we'll start if we can Domenico and if it's okay with you, Aki. Thank you very much all for joining us today the numbers are slowly still going up but I will begin if I make as we have to finish at 530 sharp. Thank you for all joining us for this the second in our series on LGBTQ Iran. Today we're going to have Dominico Ingenito of UCLA will be looking at obscene and sacred dimensions of medieval Persian poetry, with a focus on Saudi, on whom he has written a very important study. Beholding beauty, Saudi of Shiraz and the aesthetics of desire in medieval Persian poetry. This was published by Brill in 2020. And I'm happy to say is Aki has put in to the actual has put into the chat section. A special code for you to get a discount on it, which is still today later this evening and if we lucky they didn't extend it. Now what we're doing is just for a bit of housekeeping we're going to keep the chat closed other than Aki's announcements. Any questions you have, we will address in the Q&A section to Dominico after his talk. And I don't want to waste any more time I'd like to hand over to Dominico when you're ready, and I believe you have a PowerPoint for us as well. Yes. Thank you so much for your kind introduction, Roya John. I'm very, very happy to be here virtually with all of you. I see many, many, no, no names and friends and colleagues joining us today I'm very grateful. Thank you so much for being with us. I will start sharing my screen to the PowerPoint. Here it is. You can see my PowerPoint. Right, Roya? Yes. Absolutely. So this is, I have here the, this is the print edition of the book here and the title as he said is Beholding Beauty. I will be talking about difficult aspects of medieval Persian poetry and specifically of Sabia Shiraz. It's a very difficult output. When I talk, when I, when I say there are several, of course, there are several ways to refer to what I called the obscene or the pornographic. And anything that I refer to as obscene or pornographic in this context, means the explicit mention of intimate body parts or actions, sexual actions, mainly that. So the mainstream, higher registers of this literary heritage should not mention. So this is the main one. I say this because some friends in the past have told me, oh, but studies obscene poems are not really pornographic because there is some, some degree of beauty and balance in the way that uses this language. It's not, it's not a derogatory term to me. So I say pornographic and obscene while respecting also the literary value of this heritage. The main, the main question for me in this book, specifically in the third chapter of this book, which is dedicated to this very specific topic is the connection between the higher aspiration of the soul, the quest for beauty, and the connection between divine beauty and physical beauty and the lower registers of studies poetry. So we'll see how these two levels can interact and inform each other in different ways. So for instance, take this, this, this beautiful lines by Sadih by his little poems on as else, I'm imprisoned by your snare, subjugated by your hands astounded by sensing you and bewildered when loading you. What do these communicate what kind of presence is a artist lines trying to work for us what kind of a vocation takes place right in this in this appeal to a kind of beauty that is affecting the senses, and at the same time is transcending the senses. And what happens when we compare this kind of register this kind of depictions with lines like the following one and apologize if I'm going to use kind of language that you know some of you might find that setting but you already know what we're going to talk about today so I apologize in advance for this. Last night, I said to myself that I would repent from love as the time has come for me to leave this world, but then I repent of these words as the memory of that seductive beloved came to my mind. The mention of these ours, I brought to my tongue, and water emerged from the mouth of my cock. And I will try to show that this kind of language this kind of depictions are intimately connected with the higher registers with the higher depictions of desire in studies poetry. It sounds like a forced connection in this moment, but I hope that this brief notes remarks I'm sharing with you everything will be more or less more, more sense. If you're here you probably know more or less we've heard about study of Shiraz if you haven't. It's not a problem. I would safely say that it's probably one of the most important pre modern ports of Iran, or the Persian speaking world or the Persianate world. He was the first during the 13th century, he most likely studied the Nizamiya School in Baghdad, a very important institution of the time, and he was loosely attached to different kinds of Sufi mystical orders, probably the sort of idea but in a very loose way. The political and literary patronage for his life. Now, the erotic and political aspects of studies poetry are the aspect of the dimensions of his biography that have not been highlighted enough in the scholarship. There have been publications that try to pursue some of the aspects of his political activity, his connections with his patrons, but we're still trying to understand what kind of direct connections he had with his patrons. It's possible to glean most of these biographical details from his major works, which are the famous Sadinameh or Bustan, and then the Gholistan, the Rose Garden, and the collection of lyric poems, love poems known as Ghazals. I call them erotic poems. When I say erotic, I do not mean obscene, I do not mean pornographic, I just mean erotic by the etymological meaning of the word, right, so amatory poetry. Poems about love, there are three or four collections, and this is the main focus of today's conversation, the obscene works of Shadi Saad. Probably composed in the early 1260s, as you will see, they were dedicated to young princes. The patrons, we will talk about also the Sadi's patrons, the Salguri dynasty, the Atabegh of Fars, who were controlling all the southern and central areas of today's Iran, what is today Iran, and the Persian Gulf and they were renowned also all the way to the eastern most ranges of the Indian Ocean. In the book I try to reconstruct all the intellectual networks that surrounded Sadi's life and his activity as a poet, as a mystic, as a Sufi as well, and I did not bring the actual image from an important manuscript that is kept in Paris, in which I discovered, and I tried to reconstruct all the whole story behind it, it shows that Sadi toward the end of his life was granted by the Javedi family a Sufi lodge, a Hanhra, so it's important to know that he was connected with the spiritual and the mundane circles of his time, his poems were recited at court and also in Sufi lodges, we will talk about it as well. I've been relying mostly on the oldest manuscripts that record all the works by Sadi, so this is a beautiful index of Sadi's works in the manuscript that was copied most likely toward the final years of the 13th century, the first decade or the 14th century year in Persian, all the titles of his works, like all these globes for painting around each other. I will start discussing the problem of homo-sociality, friendship, and non-moral forces, right. This is a lecture series that focuses on LGBTQ plus in Iran and the Persian world. I would like to emphasize from the outset that when we talk about homo-sexuality, we usually refer to modern Western conceptualization as an identity, right, that has been then re-acquired or acquired and percolating in different cultures, in different ways of also inhabiting same-sex desires, right, so when I talk about homo-moralism in the case of premodern Persian poetry, I try to refer to a broader, more nuanced set of values, practices, desires, and literal expressions of this desire, right, so it's not a matter of identity, it's more of a matter of expression of desires. Also considering that in most cases, the homo-rotic content of the poems that we find in this tradition do not necessarily reflect the sexual inclinations of the authors. There are some of the times they might have coincided, other times it's part of a literary rhetorical strategy, a literary tradition that represents the ideal of desire, especially in mystical context, through same-sex desire, up to a point in which a woman, for instance, who was contemporaries of Hafeza Shirazi, her name was Jahan Malik Khatun, enacted homo-rotic desire by pretending to be a man in love with a younger man, even without hiding her own biological sex. So it's interesting to see how in all studies works, we see this homo-roticism that is part of the way that the appreciation of the world's beauty is described and is conceived of in his most important work known as the Rose Garden of Afghanistan, which is this beautiful mignette anecdote that explains why the poet decided to write this book. This will be the topic of my next book on the quest for experience through the narrations that I found in the Gholistan. And you can see also how in the first generations of painters who try to represent visually the stories, this homo-social content is never necessarily erotic, but it does include possibilities of eroticism, not necessarily circumstances from a sexual point of view, but there is this homo-social appreciation of beauty and conversation, so that adab by the art of relying on etiquette and aesthetics at the same time. So you can see here, for instance, in this very opening of the Gholistan, so this describes how we decide to spend the night with one of our friends in the middle of a fragrant garden. It was an enchanted and inspiring location surrounded by lush trees, the flowers on the ground looked like sparkles of redestined glass, and the necklace of the Pleiades seemed to shine from the branches. The following morning, my friend filled his robe with roses, fragrant herbs, hyacinths, and fresh mint. I told him, this is Sadiq talking to his friend. As you know, fresh roses do not last forever, and the rose garden never fulfills its promises. Philosophers say that the heart should not cover things that do not last. My friend asked, how did one cook them? With the likes of the beholders and the graceful presence of our companions, I shall compose a rose-garden book, Etabegol Estani, whose petals would not be destroyed by the cold winds of winter. My friend dropped all the roses and grabbed my robe, saying, a virtuous man ought to take his promises. It is interesting to see how I'm sharing a few. I had a wonderful conversation since my book was released with art historians, and I'm learning a lot from our colleagues who work in this field, because we're trying now to make sense of how this literary tradition was represented decades after or centuries after Sadiq's death. And it's interesting to see how this encounter here, if you look on the left, is a beautiful image. It's one of the first images that represents this anecdote that justifies the Sadiq's decision of composing the Gholistan. And you can see how his friend here is depicted as a young boy. It is very similar to the beloved, the ideal beloved, the ideal marshal, which we find in the Omerotic depictions of desire, in doing the early Timuril period, is this specific folio, the margin is from an anthology that became Sultan and Skandar, and Shiraz, probably copied in 1410, 1411, it's now in Lisbon as a Dubankian foundation today. The Omerotic component is also part of a general broader discourse on power, on political power, on sacred power. So Omeroticism in Sadiq, and on the basis of a tradition that precedes Sadiq, and Sadiq somehow we reinvent this tradition and connects it with the sacred and the cardinal. It's a tradition that conceives of power as an erotic act, as an erotic ideal, as an erotic communication, as an erotic form of communication. You can see here for instance, so the describing of these beauties of Turkic origin that are found in Shiraz at the time of the Mongol invasion. And he says where these beauty, perhaps created by pure mercy, as they appease the soul, cherish the heart and enlighten the eyes. Here all the grace with which Adam's clay was molded, behold here the spirit was blown to Adam's body. These marks of beauty are so charming on that visage, and this fine beard that sprouts was so elegantly designed. And it's interesting to see how, for instance, this manuscript was copied during the 1350s in Tabriz, is the manuscript that shows of the importance of the influence of Sadiq in the generation of poets who imitated him. So, Homa Meqabrizi was in Tabriz, was slightly younger than Sadiq, and he imitated this homoerotic panagyrix by praising the rulers of his time. So in this case, the Razan Khan, who was Ilkhani ruler, who asked Homa Meqabrizi to craft a response to Sadiq's point. So it's interesting to see how the connection between power and homoeroticism and spirituality is something that created a legacy that survived Sadiq's death. And Homa here in this response to Sadiq for the pleasure of Razan Khan recited. There are the solace of the heart and the light of our eyes. Their bodies were perhaps craft created from fine soul. The soul envies the beauty of their eyes in which a superior spirit was blown through divine light. Maybe the guardian of paradise was drunk and asleep when they took their chances and fled away from Adam. Not at all. From paradise there, they heard about the Razan Khan, the king of the world, Ilkhan of our time. From their celestial abode, they rushed here to fulfill their desires and kiss the threshold of his horn. You can see how literary imagination, the representation of an actual army of beautiful soldiers who are now summoned to pay homage to the Mongol Ilkhan Emperor of the time, is something that brings forth together and shows the continuity in the way that these lyric excerpts were created and circulated. So this is the general framework, which is why I say let's be very careful. I will never talk about Sadiq's homosexuality. I will never talk about homosexuality as an identity in this case. This is how blur these categories can be and how the scope of same-sex desire can be reflected in different ways throughout these works. The main focus, eventually, is the act of contemplating beauty. Whatever angle we choose to take to study the relevance of Sadiq's aesthetics, especially in the direction of same-sex desire, the focus on the importance of contemplating beauty, the importance of admiring beauty for different ends, whether it be physical, carnal, sexual, or spiritual, or both at the same time, is key here. So Sadiq says, this is how I am. I cannot resist the allure of beautiful faces. I sadly propose it to no one and I don't pretend to be a pious ascetic. This is how I am. This is how I am. No more will admire the valleys adored with beauty for not all fragrant gardens display arose as beautiful as your cheek. This is how I am. Listen, anyone who cultivates no affection for you cannot be human. This is the spiritual aesthetic anthropology. Beauty, the act of vision, the act of admiring beauty constitutes the essence of mankind or humankind according to Sadiq. And around this, everything is a consequence of this act of desiring to one's eyes. So many people are blind, even with their eyes wide open. There resemble soulless paintings depicted on walls. The references to vision, the references to painting, these ecstatic references to paintings are found throughout the works of Sadiq. It's interesting to see how they inspire later on generations of painters and artists to depict these kinds of images. The other, the wayfarer of the past, won't have to share the pain of his heart, for this is a pain that is not concealed from you. I know no creature who is not bewildered by the one whose powerful pen bewilders my senses in all. And here we have a spiritual point so you can see how the whole debate is found among many scholars whether Sadiq's poetry is mystical, whether Sadiq's poetry is only erotic and physical in mundane should be mediated through the consideration of how these two poles of the spiritual, metaphysical and the physical are deeply, intertwined with each other. So this is important to see that the beloved is not necessarily God. The beloved is not necessarily a natural physical human being, but he is a presence that combines the different aspiration of the soul and the body of the beholder. For Sadiq, your precious life has now come to its end, but the story of your melancholic desire is truly endless. So I focus on the Khabisatt because I believe that, which means that seem poems which have been neglected, I believe that do shed a different kind of light on the complexity of the act of desiring and beholding beauty in Sadiq's poetry. I really like to show the manuscripts because many of my, among my interlocutors in the past has telling me that it's not true, Sadiq is such an excellent poet, it's not possible that this Khabisatt, these obscene poems were his really. So what I can do is just to share the oldest documents in which the Khabisatt are actually ascribed to Sadiq. And I start with, I tried to find also manuscripts that can be perused in the UK, especially in London, this is a beautiful Safavid manuscript containing Sadiq's collected works, the Koliat, copied in 1624 and kept in the British library. It's accessible. If you have good reason, otherwise it's fully digitized on the website of the British Library, I really encourage you, if you can read Persian to take advantage of this wonderful tool that is a disposal, our disposal from anywhere in the world. And you can see here there's the title of the Khabisatt and this brief introduction in Arabic that explains why Sadiq decided to write these obscene poems, which is interesting. And I have here the English translation, he says, the sons of some kings, so some princes, have urged me to compose a book of facet, facetiae, a hazel for them in the fashion of Suzani or Samarkand. Initially I refused by facing the threat of being executed. I was forced to write these verses, may God forgive me for them. Of course, this is a playful rhetorical stratum say, I had no choice so I had to write this, this, this obscene poems for them for the entertainment of these princes. This is indeed a facetious chapter, but the virtuous man should not blame a salaciousness in speech is like salt with food. And here goes this is a post book, may God bestow his blessings. There are several poems that are important. Of course we cannot believe that Sadiq was forced under this kind of threat to write these poems, but it seems to see how, first of all, there is this connection with friendship that we have already analyzed earlier. So I will discuss that, so it seems to see that the court-leaved environment was such that this kind of language could be used as part of the literary and cultural endeavors of the court for this connection with its patrons. I'm interested to see how the connection with Suzanee or Samarkand is made here. Suzanee is the most important obscene poet of premodern life. There is not being studied. There is a very poor edition, critical edition of his works published many decades ago. There are new manuscripts that have been found now so times are right now to revisit his poetry. There is only one article published in Italian that has a theological approach to the representation of phallologo-centrism in the poetry of Suzanee Samarkand by an Italian scholar Ricardo Zipoli who teaches in Venice. And Sadiq says, I am attaching myself to this tradition. So this is the kind of poetry that I'm looking at to revisit the tradition of eroticism. So, and we can see how what kind of language he uses, right? And when the fuckers bring you the cocks as an offer, as soon as you look elsewhere, they pound your ass deep and hard. What's interesting is that in this tradition, it is important to create new speech, new lyrical speech, new poetry, by respecting the authors who preceded you. And this very poem is nothing but a response to a lyric love poem by an older poet whose name was Sanayokasmi, which is the first important lyric poet of Iran. Like when I say Iran, I mean the Iranian world, the Persian speaking, the Persian world, not just Iran as nation today. Sanayokasmi is a beautiful city in Afghanistan today. If the lovers come to you to offer their souls as their most precious gift, right? So you see how here this is the way that Sanay opened this beautiful, love, courtly, elegant, high registered description of love. And Susani used the same rhyme, the same meter, the same imagery and re-converted, right, and into the obscene language. It's interesting to see how there is continuity between serious obscene, serious texts, referring to each other, creating this web of intertextual connections. All this lands into Sadi's hands in a way that creates a complex architecture, literary architecture that the poet used to describe what does it mean to think about the body and think about the connection between the soul and the body and use the different kinds of forces at work in the Persian language to describe this connection, to describe the complexity of this connection, and to describe how this kind of language can also be put at the service of an inquiry of a quest with spiritual ends. It's interesting because Sadi talks about also the importance of Hasl-e-Khabisad and obscene language and compares it to salt, which is needed in food, to appreciate food, so there is a physiological dimension to it as well. It's a function of the obscene, and I found this is also one of the earliest manuscripts that contains the selection of Sadi's poems and the selection of Susani's poems. You can see that it has both, and in the introduction of the author of this collection of poems, this was copied most likely during the first two decades of the 14th century according to the style and the weight and the script. It was most likely also based, copied on the basis of a manuscript that was copied when Sadi was still alive, or only two or three years after Sadi's death, so this died in 1292, so it's interesting to see that there is this continuity. And the author here says, he wants to explain why he decided to include obscene lines in this collection of poems from different authors, including Sadi's answers. And he says, obscene and serious poetry has the vagin equalized natures and even alternation of contractions and dilatations. Whenever readers are under the pressure of contractions, they may find relief in the levity of the obscene whereas serious poetry may offer relief from excessive dilatation. My dear colleague and friend Justine Landau wrote a beautiful book in French, The Ritme de raison, in which she describes the role that the physiology of contraction and dilatation have in the 13th century, through meditations on the role of poetry and the role of attracting audiences and impacting your audiences through poetry in a physiological fashion, so I refer to that work and I connect to what she does also through this door at the end of my book. So what I try to see is a beautiful manuscript. And the I relied extensively on it. It's, it's kept in Kabul is a national archives of Afghanistan. It's interesting to see how this is one of the oldest copies of studies for the art, the so-called pre-bisotune perception we can talk about this later. It's also the introduction is here. It's interesting to see them, the studies obscene points not as a provocation, not as a subversion, but as a set of counter texts to his serious lyric output. So to see how to registers communicate and are in touch with each other exploring the role of the body through language under different angles in different kinds of life. And the role that the imagination has also in this, how do we make sense of the imagination in that sort of very little space between the ideal depiction of beauty and the acknowledgement of one carnal desires. How do we move between these two realms? How do we tame carnal desire? How do we understand what the meaning of carnal desire can be? It is this beautiful fragment which is as hope is a dream with your intoxicating eyes to restless I am to sleep, sleep well and tight. How could that be fulfilled by just looking at you? Other actions I had in mind, but none of them can I say to you, you see the limit. You can see the, the, the border, right, the margin between these two possibilities of saying you've seen or thinking about you've seen. And then you can convert this obscene, this sexual energy into something that can take completely different twists. You can see how this is another beautiful, you can see also how Saadi plays with the lyric tradition and creates expectations that he constantly frustrates in the reader. You can see how there is this, this way of playing with the, with the language of love, of the lyric of tradition, how delightful it is to contemplate a pencil idle on mine. My cypress brings life to my days and churches, my soul. I used to travel across the world, but now my love for his hair keeps me stuck in this city. I enjoy life with their own companion. My companion is hung as tall as I am, and you can see from this line, he starts sort of manipulating the tradition and he adds a new kind of discourse. What I love the most is to seek into his ass the most cherished limb among the limbs of my body. I'm content with his manners. This sweat is a source that never satisfies my thirst admire the temperance of this mystic are at what my erection deserve resurrection. I'm very proud of this line because because it's it's a tricky individual person. So I tried to respect the, the, the puns that are found the Persian art between erection and resurrection in connection with the RF. The RF is the spiritual be older is the mystic. There is a whole tradition in, in the context of Sufi Islamic and Persian Sufi thought, and the RF is the person is the mystic who recognizes that nothing exists but God. So this portion of your efforts are quite a different aesthetic nuance. The RF is the person who admires beauty and understands that all beauty derives from divine beauty. So there is no denial, there's no way to deny the importance of admire the world and the mundane aspect of life, but everything has to make sense, everything has to, has to be put in the service of the contemplation of the divine. And when eroticism and sexual desire are involved, this line is this line is one of the most beautiful examples of this connection between the spiritual and the RF on the page like cheek of the beautiful ones they see the downy beard. They see their sight, but the beholder contemplates the pen of God's creation. Here there's a pun, in Persian he says, Chashmi Kuta Nazaran, Barbarade Surat Khuban, Khat Hamidinado, Aareth, Talameh Sonne Khodora. Here khat means two things in Persian can mean the writing, active writing, scripture or script, but also the beard that appears in the face of a beautiful young man. And what Sadiq is saying is that everyone is looking at beauty, everyone looks at the beautiful faces, but only the RF, only the mystic can understand that the face that everyone covets is nothing but a page on which God has inscribed the power of this act of creation. So you can see how these two elements come together through this pun. And then the following line, Sadiq says, everyone's eyes peruse your face with so much passion, but the self worshippers this are no different between truth, truth and lust. So you can see how the sexual component is never denied. He's always here and Sadiq, his language, tries to approach it from different angles, from different points of view, because the final goal of the mystic, the final goal of the spiritual beholder is to polish the mirror on his heart. So the human heart in this tradition, and this is what I focus on the second part of my book, chapters, chapters four through eight. Human heart acts like a mirror that's naturally capable of reflecting the unseen, the invisible world. I look at the Addisthenian cosmological paradigms, how he was translated into Sufi language by author such as Azali, I will not linger this, but the body, along with his carnal passions and external perceptions, bails the heart and prevents it from visualizing the unseen. So you can see how, while spiritual poetry tries to give a name, represent this unseen, strives to make sense of the erotic elements that filter through the place from the unseen, obscene poetry, focus on that very veil, focus on the rust that covers the mirror. And what is the connection between the rust and the mirror and surface of the mirror? This is the one little secret that obsesses the entirety of Sadiq's work. So there are different, different strategies, it's interesting to see how Sadiq's poetry varies the act of contemplating the beauty to see the signs of God, the sacred eroticism, through the term of Shahid Bazi, if you heard about this term. Shahid means witness, by extension, the witness of divine beauty, so the beautiful boy who reflects divine beauty. There's this all-imaginal cosmological dimension, dreams, spiritual training, some are sexual, so listen to music, listen to erotic poetry, set in music. These are all elements that help the believer understand the connection between physical desire and the quest for the invisible, the unseen. And I conclude with this, this is the beautiful, before I read the text for you, please let's focus for one second on this image. This is again from this manuscript kept in the British Library. And I believe this is the only or the first visual presentation of one of Sadiq's obscene works. So it seems to see that it's something that is not really common, you don't really find it in the manuscript tradition. And this is the story with which Sadiq opens the Khabisar, with which he opens these obscene lines, whose protagonist is an artist, he's a mystic, he's a special beholder. And the story is a diverse line, it's a long story. The mystic cast the eye of his heart upon a face, he could not stop desiring his beautiful hair. He was a strong boy, seductive wrestler, he could break chains with his strength alone. The mystic strove for a few days, until the night is set in private with young men. He caressed the musky apple of his face and gave him kisses and as sweet as peaches. He wanted to get inside the boy's pants, and let his arrow plunge up to the cock feather. The cock feather I discovered is the final part of an arrow. That's how it's called, it's a Sufar in Persian. So and then the story goes on. I really urge you to read the rest of the poem if you can read Persian. But it seems to see how the RF here is on the side of lust. So the last full aspect of the quest for divine beauty in this experts is brutalized, is subverted countertextually. So you can see how that aspect is now the main focus of the quest. And this is another poem in which he says how beautiful it is to offer one's heart to a beloved, a moon faced beauty so graciously not noble and elegant. His delicate feet wearing manly sandals on his head a porced hat in the fashion of military years. The beardless boy whose chest is wrapped in a woolen cloth is much more handsome than a girl covered by the veil. He needs gold fine garments and ornaments to entice the passion of their husbands. Many ornaments are needed to beautify their bodies and mask him all and a fine and dark down in the earth one suffice. The brides of paradise covered the heads with bales. I love hemp garments on a beauty's chest, better than me, no one can describe how the tunic closer the opens from behind the neck. His face, his silver chin on the ground. The bed is an ornament in full display. Calmly young men, Shahad, are all that the city needs, no more than one son, how to shine upon a country. The kings sleep over verandahs, manzar, that overlook beautiful vistas. The verandah of the mystics are a fun is the back of a beautiful boy. You can see here how all the elements, kingship, the difference between genders, the engendered nature of love in Persian poetry. We cannot recognize whether poetry is talking about a man or a woman, and how from this engendered depiction of idealized desire, the gendered presence of young men emerges as a direct connection with one's physical appetite and how this physical appetite inhabits the relationship between mystics and kings. So you can see how all this comes to a close and sort of creates a full circle through which we can contemplate the different forms of of of studies. And I'm, I will stop here. Thank you so much for your attention. Thank you, Roya for being so patient and be happy to hear comments. Thank you so much. You gave us so much in such a short time. Thank you for that. I can see there's one question and while more people asked their questions. I had something to ask you because talking to Jane Lewis and who we know was the wife of Lenny Lewis and God rest his soul. She mentioned something about Jamal Parasteel, which is sort of the worship of beauty, which is something that you've mentioned more than once. And when we think about this idea of the beardless, beautiful boy, who is more beautiest than a veiled woman. It makes me think about the pedorasty which we found in Greek ancient style where, as a matter of fact, the idealized idea of love was this romance between an older and a younger and in both situations we have the domus and the more public life where women were behind a wall. So one wonders how much this sort of gendered walls in these societies where men didn't have access, because it literally for you to read to us beardless boy more handsome than a girl in a veil. And it reminds me of that whole idea of whether we can make some connections between this love of beauty lack of access to the female and therefore this idealized beautiful young boy becomes this soft creature and how connected we can make that to ideas of Hamjens, Hamjens, Gerai, homosexuality, gay or lesbian love as such. Very interesting question is a fascinating complex problem. It seems to see again how sexual identity is is when we talk about sexual identity and sexual orientation in its cases. As I was mentioning the meaning of the talk. It's something that is much more fluid than we would ever imagine. And it frames the perception we have a body of the body will frames the perception we have a desire along lines that reflect also different social different social orders. So what is the interesting, I think that in this context, what really makes boys more appealing for this kind of description, not a quintessential qualities not a quintessential superiority. It's not connected to to women, but he is the possibility of flirtatious exchanges is the possibility to have a being in touch with with people of the same sex, and having this kind of conversations in which friendship leads into almost sociality almost to lead into intergenerational desires right whereas the connections between men and women by default are regulated by very specific social norms, in which this kind of playful interplay can could not really take place. And unless these social norms are broken. Now, in other genres, such as the epic Romans. I think of the book of kings, the Shah Nameh, but for the sea, I think of all the beautiful. Long poems, not the points by nezami ganjibi, like Koso Shirin little much noon. Take care. You can see how these rules can be broken. And this is why in those cases for the source of the purpose of the specific aesthetics, gender aesthetics that are working those in that genre. Love is usually something that happens between a man and a woman. The main focus in this case is how what happens if we break the social norms, whereas in the lyric tradition. The social norms are presented in a completely different along a completely different life so you can have the same point who praises man to woman woman to man kind of desire. In the same time, the same boys who write a normal rotting as well, because the genre demands a different way of reflecting and describing the connection between same sex bodies and same sex attraction right so these are completely different ways of approaching this problem. And as soon as you see how in other traditions also as you mentioned, this kind of connection was found. Now, I do not think that there is an exact precise line of continuity between, you know, historically between the great love and the way that this is framed. I think that there is there is that a different peripheral influences until a canon took shape, and he became the main way to describe desire in the lyric context so this is how. I think what fascinates me is how important the role of women as authors was in in in reflecting and also modifying the camera as I was mentioned here and also Jahan Malik Hatun was a woman. The first important female port of a pre-modern Iran. Large demand collection of poems that survives has been published a few years ago in Iran. Some some scholars are working and translating the poems dictated. The dictates translate the selection of poems of Dominic Brooks show in his beautiful book on office as she was published two years ago also as talks and describes her interactions with a number of poets were active in Shiraz during the same century. It's important to see how interaction between biography, biological sex and cultural representations and aesthetic ideals interact with each other. So this is interesting to see how it is interesting for our conversation about LGBTQ. Identities today because he shows at the time in which we start talking more seriously about non binary identities we talk about fluidity of desire and gender. We can learn a lot from other cultures other sort of literary contributions and the way that sex and gender is not something that is fixed in one form. We can learn a lot from other cultures but can fluctuate right across the centuries and different traditions. So this is the main point that one can meditate upon when we do. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think this is a really interesting topic for future conversations is looking at LGBTQ presence in various cultures and societies and literary for now, I've got to start by saying happy birthday. It has very specifically said happy birthday. Thank you 21 again I can say. Actually tying in with sort of what you were talking about of context and seeing the gender context and various social places where these poets emerge. First of all, Susanne Bobby, Dr. Professor Bobby, thank you for your wonderful talk and says, I wonder if the particularity of such poetics of desire are specifically tied with urban life, a billet of vanity. What one imagines was life in Shiraz of Sadie's life. Do you detect such links in his heavy son. This is interesting. It's a very good question. It's interesting because the first mentioned on the rocket desire in the Persian literature tradition are connected to the martial arts to the martial sphere or warfare battlefield the ideal of in connection with the courtly environment. And the very first description of these beautiful Turks from Central Asia, who could pour wine, and the light, the eyes of the, of the, of the people of the court and at the same time that they after the crowd fighters on the battlefield. And if you see how this this this element that is, is precedes ID by three or four centuries. I believe that the, the, the, the urban environment signals the transition from the court as a sort of as a as a sphere that is the same independent from the site is time to a moment in which probably doing the soldier period. This is the arrival of the importance of networks of cities of centers of the education throughout the Persian speak for the Islamic world throughout the eastern Islamic world. The creation of, of universities such as the media create different kinds of exchanges in which cities, yes, became the new pool of attraction. And so, and also the connection between different circles of different, different kinds of scholars of, of, of, of traders of poets and, and, and, and reach families, right that we're rolling around the courts. We're bringing this more fluid interactions among among different social classes. So this is, yes, this is reflected in studies work studies, especially in the goal is done explores the, the, the cultural anthropological richness of this new landscape at the verge of the collapse right of the new disasters are even more interesting right house at ease reflects about about the importance of living in urban spaces, admiring beauty and finding a golden mean or conduct in the urban so urbanity as a as a new ideal that appears specifically when cities were collapsing destroyed by, by the Mongol, by Mongols and then Saudi also witnesses the new Renaissance, the Mongol Renaissance of the empire he collaborates into the aesthetic development of this of this new core historical course right with the Jovani family, the son of Ivan who was working for the Ilhan at the time so you see also how Saudi shows the importance of sexuality and desire in the, in the downfall and resurrection of these urban spaces specifically and she does. Wow. This is what we have from Spencer Pennington. You have mentioned in some of your talks about Saudi, the importance of a distinction between seeing Saudi as a poet who employed mystical language versus seeing Saudi as a mystic, who was also. Can you say more about this distinction, especially since here you highlight Sadie's writing as counter mystical. Absolutely. There is a personal distinction is between the Sharia RF and the RF Sharia, right so the mystic, the Sufi, who also writes poetry in order to to disseminate by the doctrine that the faith and that the points of that belong to the belief of a specific Sufi order or another. The poet who relies on Sufism is the point like Sadie, who does not embrace one specific order, even though he had a large for himself, even though he was part of the circles, but he relies on poetic language to explore the spiritual possibilities of the literary tenor and how the spiritual possibilities need to rely on eroticism as well need to rely on praise poetry for patrons as well so it's interesting to see how the the the main difference is between the RF, the Sufi beholder or the mystic who decides to to incorporate the entirety of his world within his own special quest and the poet who describes who discovers the importance of being active in the world, and seeking the truth out of the presence of the mind splendor throughout a number of different experiences and experiencing all of this through different ways of composing poetry. So this is the main difference, it's an aesthetic difference. It's a difference in terms also of circles and how a poet like Sadie could be active in different circles and not just limit himself to the to the realm of the Sufi lodge, but use the Sufi lodge also to create these connections and, and this is described extensively by all historical reports that that's not talked about Sadie and Sadie's activities in Shiraz at the time and and again, the Spanish lyrics, the Cacides, the political points and the Javisat, the obscene text, open small windows into something that is otherwise unstudied and cannot be recognized if we just link ourselves to what he says in the Gholistan and in Shirazat. So this you've mentioned the idea of power and sexuality in a very powerful way you showed that there is some connection there. Pearl Sharon Lambos asks in what do you, ways do you think Foucault's view of power and sexuality overlap with how, how is used as erotic communication in these poems. It's, it's, yeah, it's, it's absolutely is the main, I believe that if we were to rewrite the history of sexuality in 14th century Iran, the Foucaultian approach will be the main tool that will come to my mind in order to explore that so this is extremely important. In my next, in another book project, I'm, I would like to work on, on the Ghasnabid period, so two centuries before Sadie and see how power and eroticism are so interconnected and I have actually the first chapter of my book deals with this and I try also to make use to an extent, not too extensively to, to Foucault, to make sense of these power dynamics and how desire is not something that relates to a modern way of seeing looking at individuals who desire other individuals but as something that belongs to structures of power. And then also taking this sort of the homoerotic theme of the sexual desire you speak of, Manuela Gran-Glalti, I do apologize if I get anybody's name wrong, forgive me. She says thank you for a very interesting talk and she wonders to what extent homoerotic desire is also present in other genres, say epic, or whether the lyric is a privileged space for it. So what gives that special possibility to the lyric? The wonderful question, yes. The erotic desire, it's interesting, it does, the desire, the gender of desire is usually is should carried on by the genre, the epic, until the 14th century mostly heteroerotic. I don't really like the word heteroerotic or homoerotic because it really frames discourses and bodies and desires according to modern categories, but same sex is mainly found in the genre of the lyric of the fragment at E, Duraba'i, the portrayance, not in the epic. Things change after the 14th century, or 14th century for different reasons, probably also under the influence of Sadie, and the word Sadie brings same sex desire to a different kind of discourse in connection with the spiritual. The lyric, why is the lyric is interesting. So let's try to define what the lyric is as a genre, and it keeps escaping our definition. There's a beautiful book by Jonathan Culler published a few years ago, theory of the lyric, in which he tries to emphasize how across all cultures across all literary traditions, the lyric is always this in between space between experience and fiction. So there is this idea of think of when we listen for pop song. We know that that song does not talk about the singer does not talk about desires of the writer, the person who wrote the song does not really talk about our life but we somehow adopt that kind of feelings and we look at it on what it means and that's why we like the song and then we move on to another song. It's a poetry works in a similar way, because of the pop of medieval Iran, and it's fluid, it's ungendered in principle, it creates an impression of sincerity of confessionality of experience by using the most artificial language that one could ever think of. So it's interesting to see how the peak of literary creation invention coincides with the peak of a perceived intimacy through the language so it seems to see how this, and this is why this the contrast between these two aspects generates seduction, generates seduction within the language so the language is plastic enough is fluid enough. And can be repeated constantly in a way that maybe could be applied to the kind of connections that people would have with younger men of the same, the same sex in this sort of constant erotic communication, regardless of whether any physical acts would take place or not, what really matters is the eroticism that is expressed through any inside the language and I think because for his characteristics is the best genre to express that kind of fluid interactions. Thank you for that now on a more broad sort of subject Sahra Sabri asks us first thank you for your amazing talk. Could you speak a bit about how modern reception of these poems has been in the Persian speaking world, and how critics have analyzed and it's interesting. First of all, your mirotic aspect of studies poetry has been completely neglected and denied by generational scholars in Iran, and in the West, or, you know, for obvious reasons that even before the before 1979 and the Islamic regime in Iran. Specifically, the Khabisatt. There's no critical edition for these poems. They've been published in Iran several times, surprisingly so, but of course the key words, starting with the costs are censored so we have just thoughts that that show us but it's easy to guess what what the Islamic detail is being described, but there's no real critical study of these are very few publications. Again, what I mentioned by Ricardo Zipoli, Paul Sprachman also wrote a few books on the sort of overall, you know, role of obscene words in the in the Persian tradition. I'm currently trying to, I'm working on a critical edition of studies praise points and obscene fragments, but the general reflection, the general reaction has been just mainly denial lack of interest and even it's interesting for instance when I, when I published my book last year, and there was this final round of edits and and comments from the, from the editorial board of the book series, among whom scholars whom I respected very much also share very insightful comments that helped me publish the book eventually, of course, and one of the comments was why should we, why should we compare obscene poetry with Sadiq's serious results why you know why do we it's not Sadiq was not Sadiq was not sitting down and writing and thinking about the connection between the obscene and the spiritual, necessarily. In my response to that said, of course, but this is our work as a critics to see these connections and to so to see how at a symbolic level, language is being portrayed portraying different ways of approaching reality and how they are connecting to each other. So, the dismissive approach to the Habisath is something that prevents us from seeing the entirety of Sadiq's lyric project. And the more we want to discover what importance of the spiritual contributions where the more we need to look at this sort of peripheral spaces while this this this space that they've been denied and neglected because they open other kinds of windows onto onto onto the so this is this is how why it's important also to keep a lie I don't like to use I don't like to use erotic for for pornographic but this is for the graphic this is for this is obscene this is something that it was represented and seen as obscene and in the photograph, why should we purify the way we describe this right we it is what it is and it is explicit, at times vulgar, at times vulgar and lyrical and poetic depiction of explicit sexual acts and and body parts and you know there's no, we should not bail this as it's there's nothing to be ashamed of. Well that's good to know because that's why we have you here to take off the veil. Khalil Rahman asks just in brief how many poems or couplets have obscenity in them. Of his collection in terms of in the very specific corpus of the Habisath it's about 1515 70. 1515 70 yes depending on the manuscript. And then also following from that. Is it the urgos asks us, is it the case that the Habisath are always gathered in the Catab section, or are they dispersed in different copies of his divine. If the latter is that significant. Thank you for your question. Thank you. Thank you. The first manuscripts that we, the oldest manuscript of studies works, or dimension actually, or the very first manuscripts we don't really have those matters, but the very first descriptions of how studies work works were circulating. The first descriptions were composed around the 1520s and 30s. So the feedback is after studies that they mentioned that the Habisath were founded at the very beginning of the book, or the call the art. So they were part of the project, it was a book project, opening with the studies, which is interesting. And then copies. There are also different recensions of studies or decided to put them at the end of the book is it is not we should not open the book with this very disturbing pieces but to see how in some. I think the study craft the different ideas of what is collected works where according to the patrons, or to the truthy lodges, or to the spiritual masters with whom he was in conversation and so sort of creating different ways of composing and putting things on works. That's why we also had different names, different types of for the specific collections of ourselves. And I think that he was for some reason, who especially toward the end of his life, very keen to show that Habisath was his legitimate work, and even in some cases, like is mentioned by this guy called visa tool. He appeared the very opening of the book of the collective points, and then the tradition decided that would be put at the end. They were also circulating. I'm not familiar with many manuscripts in which the Habisath were circulating independently. There were only a few collections in which there were, there was a selection of points by said the Habisath was also seen as a sample like the master that was doing earlier. Later on, I'm not, I don't really know whether 1617 centuries they were circulating alone. It's what I seen, especially during the 1415 centuries, early 16th centuries, that were always appearing as part of the collective as part of the collective points. We have to be really careful when we think about dissemination and use in the ancient world, where we find things as an archaeologist I found doesn't always tell us where it was used and consumed so consumption and dissemination of things that we really don't know about, do we, but really interesting question that from a Scandinavian. Would you say that the preference for the visible young man over the invisible veiled woman that defines the poetic obscene constitutes a subversive order that stands in direct generic construct contrast with the pursuit of the invisible, at the expanse of the visible mundane don't know that marks the sacred poetic, the poetic sacred, therefore representing the contrast between past gaps with the two sides of the coin be essential to the literary life of the era in question. So thank you for this question. It's kind of John. I do believe I do agree with you. It's, it's a bit difficult to frame this as a theory, because we need more text we need to study more the tradition we need to see more in depth what the role between genders between genders is like, but I do see whenever suddenly brings up the figure of the arrest and the difference between genders is something that does create some sort of connection with with this problem the quest of the racial between the visibily invisible and the this seemingly part of the disparaging lines about female beauty are interesting because they also belong to a tradition which unfortunately, the female body is represented as as the ultimate vessel of materiality of physicality, as opposed to the soul and the higher spiritual assault. So it seems to see how the contractual exchange between men and women responds to different needs, different social mundane needs, whereas the appreciation of male beauty in this context can even when explored in such an explicit way can somehow create a way to rebalance the connection between the soul and the body. This is something that comes up a lot in studies poetry, but it would be interesting also to compare this with, with the greatest satirist of the modern Iran or I mean, who flourished one century after study and who was influenced by studies had this up and created a new encyclopedia almost obscenities at this time it was also in touch with in connection with coffee as a drama. So you need to see how these medications also created generated different strengths of thoughts between the 13th and 14th centuries but yes what you say is that now he's absolutely right. He deserves to be explored further further. And taking this idea of gender Jane Lewis and asks us, does the female, does the way female posts writing in the Kazakh tradition treat this, how do they treat the subject of desire she mentions Rabiya bint, Azadeh, Mehram Nisa, Bibi Hayati, Mahasti Ganjabi, Jahan Manik. How do these female sort of views of desire and treatment of it in poetry differ from the poets such as Hafiz and Sadian Ruhm? In the scholarship, apparently there is no difference. So in the way that scores until now have tried to make sense of the way the women were introducing themselves into the canon is usually studied without really trying to signal the presence of any real differences. But I do think that there are differences and I do think that there is on the one hand the anxiety of being recognized as part of the canon, so the writing in a way that sounds manly, sounds seems to be aligned with the male biological presence of the bodies were composing that poetry. So this is the problem that Jahan Manik had to frames for the first time explicitly in the introduction of the shura for her demand. On the other hand there are elements that can be, that should be studied and we need to find new theoretical tools, new paradigms to understand how gender difference, how sex difference, sexual difference could inform different ways of writing. But what is interesting is this which is evident in Jahan more than anyone else really is this desire to recognize as an equal, as a man, so that her inner most fear and the way she describes it was to be seen as a woman. And in fact, for instance, her detractors describe her poetry as something that was the product of her vagina, by saying that her poetry smells like her vagina is what we're saying, but not denouncing the fact that she pointed the finger to the fact that we know what your fear is, we know how to get to you. You don't want us to believe that a woman can write poems as beautiful as because I was written by her male counterpart. So it is interesting. It's an interesting question. Thank you, Jahan, for asking this, but we need to work more on this to understand better what kind of dynamics work at the time. That really breaks my heart, actually, because there should be a more direct answer to that of, well, we've looked at Rabi and she talks more about compared sex to birds or that I would have hoped there would have been something beyond her vagina smells like her poetry, which is a flower's incidentally ladies and gentlemen. So, there's also what we want to know, Sadie. Okay. Sina Fakul asks us first says thank you then says, do we know about the social context of Shahid Bazi at the time of Sadie. He has declared in some verses that he is accused by others of doing Shahid Bazi. Can this be understood as an awareness for a certain sexual identity or practice. Very good question. Excellent question. This is interesting because the armor autism was was a symbolic element in the in the contents of the bad bar like the court, but also the soupi lodge and there were different ways of praising or repressing same sex desires in the sexual context. So there we cannot think of soupism as a as a static as a monolithic entity where different trends different ways are also referring to previous Sufi masters adopting their ideals and their ethics ethics, but somehow they're impacting those two different social situations and so from what I can glean from the sources from what other poets other from what historians said about Sadie from later Sufi masters said about Sadie for what said he wrote about himself. He said he had a different kind of inclination that would put him more. I do think that there is more of an identity taking shape in Saudi in the way Saudi looks at same sex desire. I'm not, I try and I struggle because I try not to talk in terms of identities and I say away from the discuss on identity, but the way he describes the physical structure of the beloved in the obscene lines. This becomes more of an adult. And we know that in this context, same sex desire, provided that it's intergenerational. So an older man with a younger boy, but so this somehow represents this younger boy as as as as an adult, or as an older young man, he the way you obsesses over the beauty of the beard appearing and how even though the beard signals marks the end of the erotic tension between the architect of the mushroom. So the lingers into that in says, I still desire you even though I see Paris growing down there, even though your face is still clean as clean as an apple. There is this this is interesting and it's other mystics later on said we tried to talk to study but he would only talk to beautiful man would be was not interested in our presence when we went to visit in his Sufi lodge. And he was not really. Thank you for this question to something one should think about this this more carefully, and reinterpreting the meaning of identity, according to a different to different categories we cannot really use the same way we talk about identity to see how in the repetition of this tropes, the part of the tradition that did not really reflect personal inclinations, one might find some time to time elements that point to historical biographical reality, but it's very hard to get there. So let's go back again to this question of gender and poets because Brian, and by the way, please, anybody who didn't get their questions asked we have provided Dr engineer toes email in the thing so you can get in touch with him. I'm sorry because there's such amazing questions we don't have time to bring all of them. Thank you for your amazing talk. You mentioned the place of female poets and gender in the poetry, the feminine voice and experience is this important and important aesthetic in which to encounter the beloved with female poets such as Mirbairi being much celebrated and male poets inhabiting a female persona through which to encounter and submit themselves to the divine within Persian Persian poetry do we see modes of encountering and speaking about the beloved that are from the female perspective Do we see that in the male poets where the feminine voice is her. Yes, but it's more it's interesting how critics usually refer to the feminine, or the effeminate or the feminine constitution the feminine aspect of the beloved, the effort and feminized beloved. I think it's it's our perception as from a Western modern way of creating a separation between the ideal of physical male physical beauty and female physical beauty is not really reflected in the Persian aesthetic ideals. I think that we should even start talking about the third gender when the marshal when the beloved is described, because there is no real clear gender there's no real clear separation with the description of ideal beauty in some texts applied to both men women. It's interesting because in some cases, for instance, we assume that when the point talks about the, and are like breasts of the beloved. And using this metaphor, we assume that that reflects a female presence, but in some cases in other literary tradition we see also so special in the medieval German lyric tradition, the, the chest of men and women is perceived as something different from each other. And so the way also culture frame and present what bodies look like for God as their genders of their sexes is also extremely interesting so, or the length of the hairstyles I have colleagues and friends told me, look suddenly here is talking about a boy is talking about a woman because he's described the length of his or her hair. And but we see also that the length of the hair doesn't say anything about the gender the sex the biological sex of the object of desire so there is this this idea of it. And I will be interested to respond to this question, I don't have a response but if I were to go deeper in this direction I would compare the description of women in the in the epic poems of Nazami for instance with his own gazelles and how whether this description would be, can frame gender bodies in different ways or not, this would be the way to proceed. Yeah, because I must say, when you have that section about as the penis approaches and the arse that could just as well have been about a woman, not trying to be funny because this. Yeah, so we do have, we do have a lot of ambiguity. Of course, but it's interesting days and other, this is not something that do not. I dressed in the book. Susani for instance he has this fragment in which he talks about a man who was having an argument with his wife, his wife tells him why do you keep having sex with boys and I'm not enough for you. Well, you know why she's well I have, you know, I have, I have, I have both, I have both an anus and a vagina, you can just rely on my anus if you prefer that he says no you have two vaginas actually. So it's interesting to see how anatomy is not the only things the way that representations of desire are projecting to onto anatomy when genders when sex biological sexes are described so this is, this is fascinating. So we need to abandon our modern categories and see how these people were thinking about the body in a different way. Yeah, absolutely and poetry, patronage, the situation the context is so important. Justin on the last question I'm going to ask you is quite an intense one. Justine Landau asks the first first thanks you and says happy birthday. She asked the relation of obscenity to has on the one hand, and hedger satire political satire on the other. And the topic that zippily has looked at. In addition, the truly erotic obscene poetry you analyze. She believes or believes has more satirical as some of which target people in power, as well as women in sexual terms. So can we hear a bit more about other use of obscenity inside. Yes, thank you. Thank you just for this questions. So, it's interesting. I'm interested in in in comparing studies of seen works with Susanis and the preceding tradition, because I think that studies less interested in cider in satire than in the obscene exploration of the body for different purposes and ends. So I do see some satirical thrusts, but they're not really a persona they're not directed apparently at specific people. They're more part of a of a general of this playful discourse within the language, which connects with the way that he creates this positions between high lyrical registers and lower brutal descriptions. It's it's it's I think that study tries to convert the language that was used in satire against opponents against rivals, for instance, it was very common before him. I think it's creating a new genre somehow he's creating a new genre in which the invective in which the language the border language the invective and the side is somehow associated with lyricism. I would not really find before him, and he was trying to create to experiment, but his texts are very unstable, probably also because he was trying to to write and rewrite and think about what could be said as a new fresh discourse using this kind of language. And he does. It's clear that he relies all different genres, even in Arabic the fact that he writes in Arabic, that introduction in Arabic it's true it's clear that he is referring to the module tradition is referring to the referring to our boss. And, and the. Yes, I see that is more in the line of a pastiche and so experimenting with different genres and how these different genres can come together and create a new way of of expressing lyric sentiment, I think. Well, thank you so much for that and we've done it on time. Thank you all the audience for being with us today. Thank you very much, actually, thank you, Dominico in janitor for your brilliant research because I know you've had a really long journey to get here and be able to express yourself and it's so amazing when we have scholars from different nationalities give their lives over to the Persian literary or other. It really warms our hearts. And ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to just say that hopefully around May we're going to invite the wonderful someone at us to talk to us about his work with transsexual activism and actually healing sessions that he does within his theater work. So do keep an eye out for that and Dominico thank you again. Thank you. Thank you very much. It was my pleasure. Absolutely. Thank you for a wonderful audience today. Thank you so much for organizing this Roya. Thank you. Thank you for managing all the logistics behind this. Thank you. Thank you, John. Thank you everybody till the next session, which should be in May we leave you with lots of love and light and no Rooza Ali has a