 And we are live, maybe. Maybe. I think so. Yeah, we're live. We're live. I mean, all you got to do is give someone what happened to your cat, and if you get a reaction out of it, I think people have already heard that one. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Paragon, the OverPrime Partners, a.k.a. Pop, where we talk every week about OverPrime. This week we got a lot of big stuff to talk about. We got console news. We're going to be talking about what kind of heroes you guys want to see. We got all sorts of stuff. But I'm the man goose. Joining me on this adventure is Nerona, a.k.a. Lolita, a.k.a. Lowe. How you doing, Lowe? Hi, man goose. What's up, Buttercup? I'm doing good. How's everybody doing tonight? Doing great. How are you guys doing, Chat? Let her know. Let her know. And then, of course, we have joining us once again and now joining us permanently. We're going to bring this guy on. We liked him so much. Is Ego the Egoist? How you doing, Ego? Hey, man. I'm doing well. I'm doing well. Like 33 hours deep on the Pred train currently with a lot of playing games, writing reviews, getting stuff, getting us some content ready. But I'm very happy to be here. Thanks for everything. I talked to you guys before. Thanks for having me on permanently. Super fun. And I'm looking forward to being on Pop with you guys. All right. On. Now, we are. Ergon over prime partners. We're just partners. But, you know, in the future, we'll probably have other people that aren't partners on occasionally. Hopefully we can get some devs on. That would be cool. But a lot of them don't speak English. All that great. Maybe we can get like Bumblebee or something like that. That would be, that would be awesome. But I'm going to be awesome. Yeah. Okay. Let's get into probably the biggest news of the week, which was Ranger in the discord posted a picture of the four dev kit. And like last week, he was talking about, he sat down with Microsoft and Sony. And then he said also in the discord that they're, they're going to be porting to the Xbox. As well as the PS4. Now. You guys see that video like about a year ago. It showed them playing on the PS5 dev kit. So we knew that it was being developed for PS5. I didn't know that you could still develop for PS4. But apparently they pulled some strings. He talks, he talks to some people, I guess, and that marvel's got a lot more clout than I thought they did. And yes, overprime seems like it's going to be developed for PS4 when that will be. I don't know, but. Low, I know you're, you played Paragon on PS4, right? Yeah. Absolutely. The whole time. So this is big news for you. Yeah. Very big news. I have a lot of people friends from the past from Paragon that always asked me, oh, you're so lucky. I wish I could get to play it on PC like you, but I'm just a fully console person. When is this coming out? You know, this is such a big teaser. This is not fair. You guys get to play it and we don't. And I'm spreading the news like everywhere to my friends. And I'm like, hey, we're going to go back to playing Paragon. And people are really, really hyped about it. I do also believe like you, Mangus that they will be releasing it for PS4 just because like you guys, I also saw the picture that was released on their Twitter page stating that the writing on the box has said PS4. So we are thinking that, yes, they are going to be releasing on PS4 and PS5 at the same time. And that's pretty awesome because there's, we're going to be able to cross play with these people. We're going to be able to probably do tournaments with these people, especially with the new updates coming up to PS5 involving discord and tourney setups for PS5. So that is great news of the year for Paragon the over primary. What's your thoughts about that? Oh man, I definitely agree that it's great news. I actually started playing Paragon like you on PS4, almost exclusively. I got to play it on PC once because my dad had a PC and I like downloaded it and like tried it out. But I was like, in my young age, I was like, bro, why would you ever use a keyboard to play video game? Like that seems very efficient. It seems like it would hold you back. So I kind of stuck to the PS4. And yeah, from start to finish, I played on PS4. I still have brands like lumpy easy who don't have a PS5 yet either because of like financial stuff. It's super pricey or it's not available. So like me being able to tell them like, dude, we're back. We're doing it. Super exciting. I'm super excited for it. I think it'll be great to get a whole new player base with the Xbox, with it from the Xbox people because I know I think Smite is on Xbox, but you know, Paragon was never on Xbox. I think Paragon would be just a whole new experience for a lot of Xbox players. So that'd be really cool. But this does bring up, here's the elephant in the room here. Like we're not going to be only praising Soul Leave and Over Prime. We're also going to be calling them out on a few things. If they're developing for PS5, PS4 or Xbox, why in the hell do they not have controller support for PC yet? I don't get that at all, but I'm not a developer or anything. Lo did a great video on how to set up your Steam in order to use a controller with the game. But I'm sure, like you play with mouse and keyboard now, right? Yeah. I made the transition. But Lo, you still play on controller. I'm sure you would greatly enjoy having controller support over having to set up. Absolutely. There you go. Fantastic gameplay. The only thing with what we were able to get from actually configuring our own or what is called key bonding like your controller is that not everything works 100%. I was never able to use a communication wheel. I was not able to ping to people, call out stuff with my communication wheel. Like you guys had done the mouse keyboard. I'm pretty sure a lot of people had other problems such as, hey, we can't use our alt when we press this after a certain ability. And again, that only means that Paragon the Overrun did not provide full controller support. Probably very minimal. We were able to tweak some stuff. But yes, that was something that they had announced at the beginning and said that they really care about fairness and auto-aim and like the aim lock on ability there. Because with the controller, you have aim on, which is something that you mouse keyboard players do not have. And they really cared about the fairness of that. They wanted to make sure that everybody's able to take advantage of aim in a very fair way. But we did see when they were testing that hot clip that they released a year ago that they had full controller support because they were testing it on PlayStation. I believe it looked like a PlayStation 5. And they were using a PlayStation 5 controller. But we don't know yet what their plans are for PC players. Hopefully I haven't heard anything about controller support coming to PC, anything that. But hey, again, that doesn't mean it's not coming. We just don't know yet. All in all though, great news. Great news for console fans. It's a big move. One of our topics for tonight is how they can appeal to the Western audience. I think this is definitely a great way for them to appeal to the Western audience. So if you guys are done talking about the PlayStation news and the console news, do you guys want to go ahead and transition into that topic and to how Over Prime could better appeal to the Western audience? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, man, for sure. For me, it's kind of this weird mix of stuff, right? Because when we're talking about the Western audience as a demographic, it's an unusual split of competitive players to casual players because in a lot of other spaces in the world and demographics where they're tracking player retention, right? Like not only how we get the game picked up, but how to keep people in it. It's a lot of like competitive events, a lot of like all summery kind of media. So like comics in some cases, as someone who works at a comic store, the amount of video game comic books that actually come out is kind of insane. As far as like picking up Western players, though, one big thing that's proved to be super effective for us. And I know a lot of people don't like it. I personally do just opinion. I think battle passes for in game could help with retention of players once they pick it up. But as far as getting it in people's hands, having there be something like Twitch or Amazon Prime drops for like certain skins. There's been like multiple times I've hopped into something just because it was available on my Amazon like gaming. I think it's called now drop. And I think that would be a really good way, especially since like so much of that is focused in the West to like help pick up players. I believe that they did something like that with Amazon Prime, Amazon Gaming and drops. That would be really hype. That would be so hype. There's a lot of, you know, I also just like you, I've went into streams and I've gotten my drops, you know, for certain things in the game, accessories, skins, whatnot. Even the ability to play certain beta beta version times, like there's a lot of stuff you can get from drops. And if they are able to support, you know, get the support from Amazon Prime with that, that would be a huge big deal. But another thing I want to tackle on there, sending out an NA is that we did hear some people during the final beta test complain and mostly in the NA region here. We're talking that they were logging quite often and some people were saying, do they not have enough NA servers? How many servers do we have in the NA? Do you guys know? One. They just had NA East. They did not have a NA West server. NA West server. I think that is one of the things that we would hope for, you know, being able to see more servers here so people can, you know, reduce the lag and able to connect, I mean, connection to games like the queues or like flying, that was good. That was never a problem at least, you know, I never heard about it from people, but more servers is another thing that I believe would be a good take for them to take into perspective. Yeah, that's definitely a big one. As far as marketing go, I think they're already doing a pretty good job. I think they're probably marketing a little harder in the Eastern market than they are in the Western market, but I think that's fine. What they have done for the Western market has been pretty cool. Like they've got their trailers out and have been disseminated by major companies. You know, they're doing the YouTube shorts. They're doing a lot of the stuff on the marketing and to target the Western audience, because of course we don't see the Eastern marketing because it's all in Korean and such, but of course they are translating and making all these trailers and stuff. So I think that's really cool. I think they're actually doing a decent job of marketing the Western audience, but as far as the initial player pool, you've got, I mean, we're going to talk about this too, but you've got predecessor and you've got over prime. Competing over the initial player pool, which is the old Paragon fan base. I think predecessor has pretty much taken the Western audience and over prime has taken the Eastern audience. But they still haven't really neglected the Western audience. It was brought up in chat earlier, though, that them actually gaining access to the name Paragon and being able to market that way is pretty big for them. And when marketing the Western audience and then the console stuff, I think that's the big seller right there is the PlayStation stuff. If they can get the faster they get that out, the better off they'll be. Yeah, someone in chat actually said something that I actually think is also really insightful. Someone said one of the best ways to get new players or have that retention was to have matchmaking be super tight, right? Whenever you walk into a new game, if you're like you and your friends load it and you get like stomped out by like a five stack of people or some like very high MMR, high school level players, then it's unlikely for you to come back into the game. So yeah, I think, and in my opinion, they had they did a really good job of that and them already having a ranked mode helps remedy that problem to a degree and stuff. But, you know, as far as MMR goes, I think, yeah, no, like having solid matchmaking in the West could be really big to helping keep more players in. Yeah, and again, just like we were mentioning earlier in what Mango said last, that them being able to first release on console is going to be a big take-in. I know you just stated Mango's that predecessor has taken over the Western side, not fully quite yet, and that Overprime has taken over the Eastern side. However, in my opinion, Overprime is, if they are able to truly release faster and before predecessor does release on console, they will dominate even more because there's a lot of player base, all the OG Paragon fans who played, Paragon on a console are waiting for that release and whoever gets there first, I think, is going to extend even more. They're going to be able to claim a bigger pool of the player community. I personally think that Overprime, again, set the bar too high already. So let's see if they can take on that as well. I am personally waiting to see if they're going to, you know, come up, come up. It was pretty solid. We are yet still waiting to see what comes out on December 8th with the launch, what they're going to do. We have some expectations from them and I hope the game lives up to that. Real quick, Soul Reaper, thank you for renewing your membership. Appreciate that. But I don't know. I think that sort of wraps up that topic. You guys want to talk about Predecessor now? Because I mean, that's their major competitor. It released early access this week and you can't help but compare the two and people have been asking in chat what's the difference between Predecessor and Paragon, the Overprime. Right now, I would say, I do think that Predecessor has a smoother game feel, better animations, and they focused all of their energy on gameplay, whereas Predecessor still has good gameplay. I don't think it's quite as good as Predecessor, but they have all the features that you would expect. Predecessor doesn't have a shop. They don't have progression systems. You just, you get the game and that's it. The announcers, like, proceed to your rewards. I'm like, what fucking rewards, bro? I ain't getting no rewards. At least the bare minimum. Yeah. And it's paid for. Yeah, something. Yeah, you can't get skins. What are we paid for? Yeah, and it's a paid early access whereas Overprime is not going to be paid early access on the 8th. So there's some differences for you right there. And a lot of people will tell you, okay, like, like, yes, Predecessor doesn't have all of these game features, but they have time as early access and they can improve. It's the same thing for Overprime. Yeah, Overprime isn't up to par with Predecessor, I think, on actual gameplay, but they're early access and they have time to improve as well. So both of them have things that they need to work on a little bit, but I think Overprime probably has a lot less that they need to work on than the Predecessor at this point. Oof, I'm trying to... Okay, so I actually already talked to you, man, Goose, a little bit about this. I just pulled it up to remind myself because I compiled a little bit of a list because for one of the videos I'm working on, I wanted to kind of do this side by side. And okay, I do agree that Predecessor's gameplay does feel really good. It feels very smooth. It's very, very immersive. There's not a lot of rubber banding that kind of pulls me out. It's smooth though. The item shop is good. It's super smooth. It's too smooth. Too smooth. Too smooth, I think. It's smooth. This is nice, but when it's overly done, I really want to cut you off here. When it's overly done to where, if you're shooting, like I said in the beta test that they released before now, that when you're not able to feel your character as playing, for example, Sparrow, it's too smooth to a point where if I'm shooting an arrow with Sparrow, I do not feel that arrow. I don't feel that arrow coming out. I don't feel better cut Belka shooting. I do recall in Fault, we used to feel something like that. I do recall, I do know that in Overprime, we do have something like that. However, in Predecessor, it's overly smooth. That's the problem. And I think that's something that a lot of people have been saying. Smoothness is nice, but not when it's overly done. I've heard a lot of people say that it lacks feedback on hit. Yeah. Yeah. Feedback on hit. That's the word for it. Yeah. No, I definitely agree. You were saying that you were out there? Oh, no, no, no, no. Totally like it is, it is something that I would have completely forgot because that wasn't on something of like this itinerary of problems, not necessarily problems. Yeah. So someone just in chat said it lacks that right. And overall, the Predecessor package for me, I can't put my finger on exactly what it is outside of like the gameplay loop, but it's lacking kind of its own like flavor. And I don't only need to be immersed in the gameplay, I need to be immersed in the overall game, the overall package, which is one of reason I'm really big on battle passes. But the problem I also have is with it being behind a paywall, I know guys, every Predefan in the world, it is only $10. It's only $10. It is. It is only $10. But overprime is free, right? And Predecessor behind that paywall doesn't have a ranked mode. It has seven whole fewer characters than what overprime does. The devs for six months didn't say a single thing in their discord. I don't want to go too hard on them because I'm so scared. Yeah, yeah. I don't want to just doggle on Omega and Predecessor. Yeah. I'd rather up. We're not dogging. Yeah. We are comparing. We are literally comparing the two. There's good things coming after this, I swear. Didn't say anything until the early access. And that's something that I feel like Epic Games had a problem with, and that kind of bothered me with that. So seeing that kind of puts me off. But people are right when they say the game feels good. It does feel very smooth. The animations are downpacked. One thing in the game that I haven't seen talked about a lot is the audio is pretty solid. There's times when I'm gaming and playing it. And I hear the minions approaching from behind me are here, a Kalari, moving through the jungle. You literally can hear the weightiness of Richter's footsteps. That's a super good feature. And I think if we're both giving them time on their side, they both have the potential to be amazing products. But gameplay-wise, Predecessor feels really downpacked in that area, and they can more easily expand on other games if that makes sense. Yeah, I think Predecessor is a slower, more traditional MOBA if that's what you want. And then OverPrime offers a faster, more exciting experience if that's what you want. So I think you can like both, or you can like one or the other, and you can support both, or you can support one or the other. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I think both of them can coexist to a point. I know certainly both of the game's developers believe that they can both coexist and they wish each other luck and success. So I think we should all join together, wish all of them luck and success. We don't want them to fail. Oh, absolutely. Oh, yeah. People ask me if Predecessor is worth the money. Yeah, I think it's worth the money. But if your budget is tight, then why not just wait for the free one, you know what I mean? But I don't know, I still need to, I really want to see OverPrime's marketing before their marketing and their monetary systems before I really pass any kind of major judgment and do like a comparison video of the two or something like that. Because maybe they'll do some shit that really pisses me off. Like we know that their marble is a mobile gaming company. So I'm sure it's going to be like some, a bunch of micro transactions and loot boxes and shit. But we'll have to see how bad off it is. And we'll have to see what the free to play experience is. If it's a good enough free to play experience, then I'm fine with it. Now that you mentioned that, what do you think Paragon of the OverPrime is going to, what are their monetization plans? What do you guys think about that? Not really sure. I mean, I'm sure skins are going to be a part of it because you don't spend that much money on those awesome ass skins and then don't monetize those somehow, you know what I mean? I can't imagine that they would, I can't imagine that you would be able to earn their own skins, the ones that they created with in-game currency. I would have to imagine those would be premiums some way or another. I hope to God that you could just buy them outright and not have to just look into them with loot boxes or some shit. That would make me mad. I kind of hope they, let's say like apple and oranges and they're both fruit, so they can be compared. I kind of hope they kind of take a look at the way SMITE monetizes because overall it is a free game. They do have like a God package to where it's a one-time purchase of $30 and get access to all of the characters. I think out of early access, that's something they plan to do down the line. That's very healthy for the game. Also, depending on their release schedule, a lot of people are willing to make that purchase because it's guaranteeing you every one to two months new content that you won't have to pay for in the form of characters, in the forms of skins. If they do do loot boxes, I feel like there's a... Okay, I don't like loot boxes. I'm going to preface this now. I am a big anti-loot box guy. Why? It feels... So I have a personal bias. It feels kind of... I've seen some people kind of fall too far down the hole. Yeah, it's predatory. Yeah, I've seen some people like, I just really want this skin. I'm like, you have to pay for gas. Dude, you have to get to work. He's like, I know, but I'm feeling lucky about this roll. Like the word roll. I'm like, just don't do it. I've just bought 50. The odds are, if I buy another 10, then I'll definitely get the... Exactly. Rolling the dice at some point, they'll all be sixes. This is like, dude, stop, stop. But Smita's kind of done it in a way to where it feels less terrible. They'll have like nine items in this loot box, and they will list what they are. They'll be like, here's these nine skins, and you can roll that loot box, and it'll cost 300 gems, right? And you can roll, and you'll get one of those skins at random. Okay. Or you can go buy any skin from that for 800 gems. So if you want to roll, maybe there's more than one skin in there, and it's a good deal for you because you want a multitude of these skins. You're basically getting them at a discounted price, but there's always still that option of going out and just buying those skins directly. And it's another reason I'm kind of big on battle pass because battle passes give mobile players a reason to come back to the game and objectives outside of climbing the ranked ladder. And when you put things like your in-game currency in your battle pass, it opens up like, okay, hey, it gave me 50 gems, so now I have 300, I'll maybe do a roll, right? And that doesn't feel as predatory to me, especially if they give us the option of then buying the skins directly. I also hope that they don't charge for the epic asset skins, like premium currency, maybe just in-game currency. Predecessors doing that, and that's something I actually talked to their devs about already is a big oof for me. I don't care for that at all. I don't care how you try and justify it. You shouldn't be selling something that you... That's like if I have a lamp, a used lamp that somebody gave me and then I sell it to you at full price. Do you feel valued as a consumer if you just got this lamp, that I used lamp that I got for free and you're buying it for... Anyway, that, again, I don't want to get into an Obeda bashing rant here because I have problems with both games for real. I just don't know at this moment what sort of problems I will have with over-problems monetization, but I know that with them being a mobile gaming company, I will have problems with whatever monetization they implement. But they're still early access. That's why this period is called early access. They're listening. They're taking feedback from the community, both games. And we expect them to listen to the overall and do what's best for the consumer in general. That's why we can't... We're not bashing. We're just... When we speak over-prime predecessor, we're comparing the two. We have some expectations as fans of both and the better should... I think should carry on. The better will be able to grab a big chunk of the community more than the other. However, at the end of the day, they can both live together and both be there for the gamer together. Because to be honest, they are truly a little bit two different games. Like, truly, very two different games. If you want something slow, slow-paced, you want to take your time, you know, enjoy the pace of a true MOBA, you can play Pred. If you want something different, because, hey, Paragon was out, Paragon died, Fault was out, Fault died. People are kind of like maybe bored of the same... It's the same concept constantly, and then it goes away, right? People want something new. I feel like, you know, having playing over-prime is something new that we are just done the same heroes over and over and over. I know there's going to be additions, but we are yet right now playing the same heroes except over-prime as Zina. And Huntress was teased by predecessor, but I feel the... What people say that over-prime is an arena brawler PVP, why not? It truly is not a brawler. There's more fights, yes. It's more fast-paced, also, but even though being fast-paced, the games still last a little bit longer than they should as being fast-paced. You know, again, I think over-prime's idea was like an introduction of a, let's say it's a Paragon 2.0. It's a different version of Paragon. It's Paragon, but it's like a different kind of experience, you know? And maybe a lot of people want to see that difference. To me, personally, it was very fun. Like, you know, again, if I want to play slow-paced MOBA back to the original, you know, whatever, I'll probably hit up predecessor. And if I want to, like, indulge and really have a full-on experience, like a whole new, same characters, a little bit of tweekings in the game, all for Paragon the over-prime. Yeah. I mean, I like over-prime because they're not, like, they're not remaking Paragon, but they're still keeping the spirit of Paragon. Because Paragon was all about innovation in the MOBA genre space. Like, new shit added to the MOBA genre, including a third-person perspective. And I think that's what over-prime is doing. They're not just making Paragon over again. They're iterating on Paragon and proving adding some more new stuff into it, like the portals and whatnot. And that's going to keep it fresh and interesting, and that's what it's going to draw players in, I think. Okay. So, like, mild tangent here. Because I actually was on a Discord call earlier playing a couple Pred games with some friends. And we were running a Forman, and it came up, because a few of them were like, you know, we're really, we're really into Pred, and we think, you know, it gets back to the basis of what, you know, Paragon really was. And I'll say now, as I said then, I feel like, over the course of time, every MOBA has tried to innovate on something, and you touched on this just now, Mangus. So, like, Dota 2 League, to Smite, to Paragon, and now, in a way, to over-prime, there's this constant need of innovation and evolution. And for me, at least, the way that Paragon was like almost an evolution of, like, Smite, per se, over-prime kind of feels like an evolution of the original Paragon in a positive light. I don't agree with people when they say it's a brawler, because they make it sound like I got seven kills deep at three minutes, and I mean... It isn't true. That is so untrue. It is not a brawler. It is very MOBA-esque, and people, like, playing it, not just, like, walking in, playing three games and then being like, this, this is too much, but, like, getting to learn the game, really, would have the opportunity to see that it is just as much a MOBA as a lot of other MOBAs. If you want to play it safe, you can. There's the teleport item, like, there is in Pred. You have access to wards, not only that, but junglers have access to camouflage. It is a little more, I will say, risk versus reward. With the map being so big, even with Trapemode, you are liable to get caught out of spot, out of position. But the more and more you play the game, OverPrime has its own kind of, has its own kind of tradition that it is trying to implement into the MOBA genre. You got to keep eyes on teleporters, right? You got to make sure that the objectives are properly warded, because if they're not, that does lead to teamfights, which will lead to getting you killed, and that can lead to this, like, oh, it's just to kill everyone brawler mindset. But for me, OverPrime, ultimately, is a game of incremental value. And the longer the games go, whoever's accumulated the most of that, can snowball. And that is a problem for some people, but stopping that incremental value early on in the mid-game, because there is an early and mid-game. It just does things right for me currently, and I just wanted to kind of point out some of those smaller things. I'm sorry, that was a total tangent. That was not on the list of things at all, but those are my overall thoughts on, like, OverPrime just being called like a, like the street fighter, the mortal combat of the mobile genre. And I mean, you know, there's a lot of strategy to it. Yeah. There's more than just saying, hey, I want to play a mobile, I go play Pred. If I want to play a brawler, I go play OverPrime. That is so untrue, very, very untrue. I'm hoping from the people to, like, people come from the basis of, like, okay, so we play Paragon, probably play Fall or whatnot. You know, don't be so stuck and wanting. I expect the same as what before. Be open, explore without previous latch on on a certain experience that you had and you just want the one that is so, that is the closest. Come up with a fresh mind with an open mind. Try it out. Test it out. You know, you can probably play both. And at the end of the day, you can play both. You probably will play both, but, you know, Paragon is a totally different experience. It's a newer taste. It's a nice addition. It's the base. It's got the foundations, got the base, just with the little few tweaks that actually make the game pretty fun. Yeah, I'd encourage that amongst everybody. If you've been following OverPrime, and you're just now hearing about Predecessor, like, drop the $10, give it a try if you don't like it, refund it, you know? Like, give it a try. Maybe you'll really, really like it. You don't know. Maybe you really like the fast-paced OverPrime action, but maybe you'll like Predecessor even more. You don't know. Give it a try. And for all the Pred fans out there that love shit in OverPrime, give it a shot. Like, give it an honest shot. Don't go in with the mindset of I'm going to come into this game and figure out exactly everything that is wrong with this game so that I can go into the Predecessor Discord and tell everybody what I think is wrong, which is something I see a lot of OverPrime fans that don't do. Like, EverPrime fans, stop doing that shit. Don't go into Predecessor, play the game just so you can find all the bad things and then tell everybody about all the bad things you found. Celebrate the good things, God damn it. I mean, yeah. At the end of the day, you're the consumer. You're the gamer. You want to have something fun. Yeah, like, let's say a thousand people are playing this game, but only 10 people are playing the other game. It's what you like. A lot of people ask me, what do you think of Predecessor? What do you think of Predecessor? Did you play? I'm like, yeah, I played it. What do you think about it? You know, I'll say, hey, get on the game. Play it. You know, experience it your own self. We all have our own different tastes. You know, play it how you like. See, you know, get your own feedback there. You don't need to, like, you're the customer. You're the one who's going to be spending time, even if it's with money or without. You're the one that's going to be sitting on their PC or console, you know, playing it. It's not me. It's not the thousand other people. It's not the flow you need to worry about. It's what you feel you where you want to be and what you want to do end of the day. So cyborg in my chat said, I did play over prime, not for me. And I completely trust cyborg on that. Like, I know the cyborg went in there with an open mind and gave it an honest try. I just didn't like it. And that's fine. That's, yeah, just like, you know, so it's fun to happen. It's okay to like and dislike things. Yeah. It's okay to like and dislike things. Of course. It's not okay to like, you know, for both communities to trash a game, to get the game or hype, I mean, end of the day, they can coexist. End of the day, it's your choice what to play. Yeah. Yeah, man. Just play what makes you happy. Play what you enjoy, guys. Even if you're from your, like, two different communities, you know, make sure you love each other, respect each other. If someone's like, I don't like Pred, just be like, maybe I prefer Pred and kind of leave it at that. Go run games with your friends. My group that we're playing with, we're going to be playing Pred, we're going to be playing over prime. We're going to kind of pivot to wherever the heat is on the tournament scene a lot. So play what you're enjoying and, you know, get. I bet you, I bet you have the communities from both ends, right? You hear about a tournament, a thousand dollar tournament dropping. Both communities are going to cross play and they're going to do a different tournament. Oh, come on. I'm going to be like, I'm here to get this win. Those are my people. You got to pick up that W. You guys ready to move on to another topic? Oh, I'm ready to know what people want for a character. Yes. What heroes do you guys want? I'm going to go make myself another drink, but you guys discuss it. Make it a spicy one. Let us know. You're about to need it for this one. Yeah. Put a little extra room in there. Pure just said in a chat, we're all OG Paragon lovers. And I feel like that really sums it up. Both, both products are trying to bring back a game that all of us love and enjoy. So, you know, no matter what your flavor is, get it in there. But switch to characters. I know everyone in this chat, every single one of you. Want to sign this petition to get more cash, but in both games immediately, the more I know what's there. You say that just because she's your favorite. Yeah, she's my. Okay. She's not my favorite low. She's everyone's favorite. Okay. Wait till they hear about Wukong. What about Wukong? What do you guys think about Wukong? Would you like to see Wukong? Would you like to see Wukong? That hard-ass character. A lot of people hated Wukong, but there's a lot of people who love Wukong. Wukong is a challenge. What do you guys think about that? People say Wukong. Oh, here he is. You're supposed to be making your drink. Your spicy drink. I made a spicy drink. What do we talk about Wukong? Somebody say Wukong. Okay. I would like to see Wukong introduce just because of the balance challenge. That's the only reason I'd like to see him put in. Yup, he's the most challenging. Couldn't balance him. I think it's easy. You just make his 84,000 hairs deal ability damage done. He's fine. I just intended to say Wukong, but my brain is so on the blue lady with horns. I was like more again, but now Wukong, I honestly want to see a man about to make him spit that drink. I want to see a man again, just because he had a really fun kid. I don't know if you can, if they like click and drag his old kid and bring it over, I don't know how you would balance that. It was so insane. Like he'd like literally just set the lane and you'd be like, okay, there's only one way an inhibitor has to go on down. Oh my God. He's the biggest rat. He's the biggest rat of them all. He's pushing your lane the whole time. You try to chase him. I remember back in the Paragon days, how many people used to be chasing that Wukong? We all chased around Wukong and we were never able to catch that Wukong. And now I think it's the biggest challenge for, you know, driver company, Omega or a Netmarble slash team. So leave to come up with a true balanced Wukong. I'll tell you what, I think that's a hot take one here. A most baby spent my drink with soul said they need to put Shinbi back in the game. She was removed in the last test. That cracked me up. Poor Shinbi. Rip Shinbi. Man, like Wukong also with the, with the added element now of also like, let's say, let's say they put Wukong copy and paste as he is into, into a Paragon over prime, right? This is not a game that has everyone gets a blink basically and a sprint mode. This dude is going to be more elusive than getting in with nothing but cooldown built. It is going to be impossible to catch this man if they like copy and paste and put them in. So I feel like if they are going to bring Wukong back, which I hope they do, his character design was super awesome. I feel like there's some things that need to be definitely changed. Maybe take away the air walk, leave the, leave the CC. Yeah. The air walk with over primes map. Air walk with over primes map though. I think over primes map has a little more verticality to it than the monolith map from Paragon that Wukong was dropped on. I don't think. Yeah. I mean, I'm just thinking that's a nightmare. He could literally clear two different walls that you would never be able to catch him. Yeah. He'd be gone forever. Then you got the water on top that you can jump on. The little water ponds that are on mid lane area that too. And then imagine you have a portal on top of that. Yeah. You finally catch up to him. He just walks through a portal. You're waiting for him on the other side of the portal. This is a full five man effort. He uses his blink and now his air walk is back up and he's gone. Yeah. You never had a chance. I feel like if they do add him, he has to be an assassin. And okay. So like here's my proposal. They add him. He has to be an assassin. He also has to have the lowest health in the game. Yeah. Because he has. He's so illusive. Make him gidgy. Yeah. Exactly. If he gets caught, he's gone. Like having to be an expert character, put the skill gap high. And in fact, if you do give him the lowest health in the game, I'm going to say this out loud. This might be poorly aged in a couple months. Maybe give him a damage boost to his clones. As long as they deal ability damage, because ability damage, it doesn't deal damage to the towers. So. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, like just convert him into an assassin in that way. Yeah. Just like stun said, I think Sina would be able to whip him off. If she catches him. If she catches him. You got to catch him first. You catch him first. There's a lot of characters that are able to put him down. The problem is that his speed and how able he's able to wrap his way into a hiding spot until he's gone. He's a looseness. Yeah. We don't want to change. We don't want him a different kind of Wukong. We don't want to change the Wukong. We just want to balance him out. I think that's a challenging character to bring on the table here next. And I hope I really hope they do. I'm not going to lie to these people. I want to nerf him. You know how much he killed me back in the original Paragon. He didn't kill me. He just got away from me a lot. He got away. That's what's most frustrating. It's not the killing. It's him escaping. Oh, he's low on his one. He's one hit. He's gone. He's way at the core. Unless I instantly put a chain up his ass as soon as he tried to air walk away with Richter, then he was getting away. I did that a lot. That would be an overprime. He's like, get over the wall and you're like, no. Yeah. Yeah. But now that you have the phase and I have to bring her in every time because she's my bae. But I thought you got phase that is able to link and pull. Hmm. I don't know, man. I was like, and I was grabbing onto Gideon's and the air a lot in their alts. I think I can grab on Wukong and bring it back. I got, I got some ideas for bringing Richter back. But we'll get to that later. Oh man, I want to hear that. I really want to know what they're going to do with the ritual pool. Now that we have another pool on the team, which is great. We got a lot of, a lot of votes in the chat for yen right now. We got the edge of broken says bring back yen. We got a red clown says yen. Oda says yen. We got a lot of people. Everybody wants that whooping, whooping machine. Yeah. Ninja. No, no, no, no. No just as yen and zinks. Yeah. I think it would be, would be great. I think she would be it because. I think both, both predecessor and over problem right now have, they don't have unique carries at all. Really. They're just the carries do the same shit. They just shoot. They just basically that yen at least has like the, the different ranges, you know, it gives her a little bit of a cooler feel. And overpryde does have rampage. They do have Decker and um, those are prime candidates and then fucking howlitzers are 2000 rocket is so powerful I would love to whip that back in the hallways face. That's that's right hamster son of a bitch You see it coming just return to sender Yeah You get shot you get hit by a grenade you can throw a bad back at the enemy Everyone on this cast has been rocking it and won me too many times by these howlies I guess all those years later in the media I don't know what about that one So between you guys like if we I said of course today though My favorite character was always mortgage if you guys could between you two pick a character to be brought in on the I'm the parrot on the over front side Who would it be for who's not in the game currently? Out of pure feeling out of pure feeling like for you don't balance don't game This is for the goose rector of course rector rector does not mean but As low pointed out like it's hard to bring rector in when you've got phase that does the same thing that rector does but With a lock on that's easier That's like easier to manipulate, but here's my idea Think about this one for a minute. Okay, so rector's hook make increase the length So it's about a half times as long as as phases fucking link And and here's the big one make it pass through terrain Make it what pass through terrain So you want it longer and you want it to pass through the terrain if you're if phase can fucking auto lock If phase can fucking auto lock on pull people why can't I pull a motherfucker through the wall? What did I stick my hook through one one into the portal have it come out the other and grab somebody Oh When you came up with that idea That'd be great Maygoose wants the cyberpunk scorpion to be brought into overpry Auto locks on like a calario to cross Though you either got a nerve face or you got a fucking buff rector I think having his hook go through walls would be perfect Maybe don't increase the range a whole bunch, but if just just making good through walls, bro I need you not to be coming through with takes like that. I have asthma The hold up here me out and it goes through portals You I'm taking the photo do it. Oh, no, I'm saying it's a little late apparently Did the low say they're pick They're pilgrim said it blitz and legal edges is a hook that goes through walls. Oh But walls walls I could see portal doubt See like so they go to the portal key like just see the outline of them on the other side Okay, the portal is just a meme the world is the meme, but I really would like to go through walls Oh, give me this dream. I would love for it to go through walls Oh I got to keep you away from the discord server. So you're not talking to anybody about that Could you imagine being on the backside of prime and somebody's trying to take orb and you hook that motherfucker through Through the backside of us so your team could come in and smite it You let him take the missile shots and get low you like come here That would be so disorienting Oh my god, I mean, I guess like isn't like they could like make his past to be like he can like see through walls That would be open. No, that would be insane He wouldn't need to ward very much then he can like see into the invisibility and see through walls And then he's just snipe ropey the more we talk about this. I thought it was kind of much at first But now I'm kind of on board You just disrupted him Pretty happy that a poppy plays it's not in here Yeah, no papi would love this shit Evie point message that they can do something interesting Some things with the chains like tethering heroes together and then you can use them to hook multiple people That would be kind of neat Are you trying to beat the heroes put them all on a beat in one line? Another thing I guess you could do with it to make that make it different from Pays is making like a Sonya from here's the storm whenever you hook someone you actually travel to them and impact That would be awesome. They're pulling them to you pull yourself to them. Nice. Yeah, that would be nice Oh, that would be terrifying though. Rick are coming flying through the air Especially to go through walls I Called it's running over the wall Out comes the chains out pops the chesticles That for a while now he lets the chesticles dangle Richard will not become a k-pop furry you get that out of my chat. I Think that's the big worry right now doing a little more serious topic so They introduce Zina completely took me by surprise so Is a Dell gonna be with early access do you think a Dell will be early access or they go to like pull another left turn and throw Rina in there No, sure. They haven't used her quite currently if we haven't yeah, maybe something went wrong with Adele I Hope to see Adele or Rena on the early access release date I think I think it would be really cool for the game for them to kind of confidently be adding Characters consistently, and I also think that could be a thing to help improve retention in the game Sorry, I'm trying to come back to reality from that conversation Jesus Christ I'm like looking at the chat popping off with other ideas pretty cool What if it was like he throws the chain and it grabs the whole team Shot going over walls Redirect it like a like ride-hards charge like you start it this way and then you can direct the hook after the pool after you activate it What of them said fucking it make it an AOE? But um, yeah, no, I think I think them confidently they introducing new characters like this So like sing Adele sing arena. I think it's her name being added in Could be really cool. I I will say I Would like sooner rather than later I'm gonna say like by the end of January February give it a little more time to see a character who's maybe not a pop star because from like Zena seems to have some interaction with Shinbi so does Rena and I Isn't me or I know Adele had like the vines. Was there a mic in there? I don't think so Okay, I had a chain sword and a shield Yeah, I would like to see like I all you know the chainsaw thing looks super cool I was a really big fan of that, but yeah, no, I think I'm adding in characters Regularly like that and like kind of confidently. I thought the Zena trailer was Really dope not only that trailer was sick the landing screen afterwards that showed Zena transitioning Over three different panels into the world of Agora from our world. Oh my god I was like That's some attention to the fucking detail right there that yeah was fucking cool That's a new character to to launch anytime soon. I haven't seen any teasers I mean I've been looking every single post that they post that they put on I'm like looking for little hints and and little things over. I don't know I've seen anything I was just always under the impression that Adele was coming with early access But then after they dropped Zena during the final beta test, maybe that's The new plan. I'm not real sure and again, Reno We don't even know if she's actually going to be a hero in the game or not We just they said that she's going to be involved with the game somewhat But she's a digital influencer in Korea of like Like hundreds and hundreds of thousands of Followers that would be kind of cool. I think it would be a good business decision for her in the game But Reno is a real person She's not a real person. Oh Okay, I was she's an actual digital influencer You can't tell by looking at her Instagram everything looks like it's fucking real and it scares me a little bit, but yeah Reno is not a real person Kind of fucking weird But yeah, they need to put some some cooler characters somebody mentioned hatch earlier Let would love to see them get a hold of those that use that cloud that weird cloud that they have to let them develop on the PS PS4 use that to bring in some of the unreleased Paragon heroes like hatch and marsh that would be fucking wicked That would I agree that would be super super cool So quick question for you guys this is this is a little bit of a backtrack Back to kind of what we think would help Paragon the overprime kind of stand out on the Western market There's something I thought I like have it written in a document right in front of me But I just forgot to bring it up How long do you think after we get into early access because you know, we have the spectator mode We already have the GTG tournament going on previously. How long do you think it takes? And how long do you think it takes and also how long do you think is a healthy waiting time? Before we get into the kind of tournament momentum the competitive scene if you will Because I know I know people and I'm one person who I'm like when it drops. I'm looking to run scrims and That's partially reason. I was kind of disappointing Fred didn't have a custom game mode Yeah, as well as like a spectator option How long do you think it'll be before we see it and how long do you think the community should wait before we jump in? I think the community can just do it whenever they feel like it like if the community wants to do it It's all good. My problem is when the developer gets a little too involved in it Like I don't think over I don't think so leave needs to take development time away from adding new heroes and improving Fixing bugs and improving gameplay. I'll think they should take time away from that to implement Like a third-party draft system so they they could have better Community tournaments, you know what I mean like that should not be a thing It's cool if so leave supports these grassroots tournaments a little like a little bit through like given like a little logo Or something like that. That's cool, but I don't want to see so leave taking time away from this the shit they have going on To invest into a competitive scene let the competitive scene Generate itself organically within the community as long as you do that. I think everything's fine Yep, I agree. I agree. Let the competitive team lead on and and again, there's no specific time I don't think I think we were like people were able to participate in a tournament You know the game was barely barely released on when it released last time for the final beta test and They were immediately jumped into a tournament So I don't think why not people jump into another tournament or another competitive scene as soon as the game drops I think There's there's no limit. There's no time You know directed towards that whenever the players are comfortable to invest in something like that I think it would be a cool idea Especially that a lot of people have played the competitive slash ranked mode and buried on the ever crime So that's just another way to implement it with more community involvement Yeah, I 100% agree with you guys. I don't I don't know why I expected any anything else We're all kind of like in sync here, but I'd agree especially that I Want to leave as long as possible to be focusing on the product and Improving it and making it better and getting new players in and keeping the players who are in it, you know me you the community New players old players Paragon veterans happy with the content and the game that they're putting out because you know it's a live service and hopefully if the monetization isn't you know too rough it can Maintain some of the momentum it currently has but the reason I I ask is because man, there's like Something about the buzzing of a game with a good competitive scene Okay, I don't like league. I hate top-down mobs I think they're just not for me. They're just not for me But I watched the like three-minute clip or like setting up the narrative of the world finals in 2022 and I've never been so emotionally And something in my this is someone as a girl who has a girlfriend and two cats like I have never cared so deeply I Was like he's going to go to the military and then my friends like but faders the greatest player alive and kind of having That community insult this all does track back I promise having that community and having those narratives and those players who like almost like set the meta for things Is a great way to help not only the community grow up a kind of develop and solidify And I feel like that's something the old paragon was kind of getting into the rhythm to before it shut down And I I believe it it would have like three more months It would have grown exponentially because of it because it was it was really like hitting that stride and making its way Yeah, I Think the lesson to be learned here is from here's of the storm with Blizzard here's of the storm because Blizzard Not just here to the storm, but I guess I'm overwatch as well Blizzard tried to force e-sports down everybody's throats with both of the games like Blizzard Focused on e-sports for both of those games and it ended up being a huge massive failure You got to let the community do that shit and create their own hype in their own buzz I think Overprime definitely has a game on their hands that can generate that hype and buzz because it is a very exciting game visually There's a lot of shit going on. There's a lot of fights There's a lot of weird little strategies and like you said with setting the meta the meta um in The last beta test not the final beta test, but the I think second closed beta test They had to turn about about halfway through and that set the meta and actually had it forced So leave to patch the game midway because everybody saw what it was like to take an eight minute prime guardian and Then I think this tournament the last time that we had for the final beta test would have set the meta But it was it was held at the end of the Of the beta test But I think people realized real quick that Tanks were way stronger than people that anybody gave them credit for and ADCs could be shut down by those tanks late game as long as your your jungler was on top of it and didn't let those ADCs get out of hander Mm-hmm. Yeah I think Paragon the overprime in general is listening to the community We are hoping just like we said more things to happen upon launch Mainly just like we said and reiterate here that character balancing, which is one of the things that Really wasn't the talks a lot of people, you know, hey, you know balance scatter, for example balances other here For example, I hope they are listening. They have been doing a great job listening I think they stole that, you know, a lot of their hands are working on for us And you know, all we got to do is support give the feedback I'm just sitting here reading to Aros, uh, you know still was super powerful. I agree with you on the auto He was super powerful people underestimated still actually I didn't see a lot of steals being played Magusia was on the people that always told me because I play support main why not try Why not try steel? He was truly a complete shut down to phase. I was not able to do anything and in lane with a good Steel, I think even my hook or my pull was completely Shut down when there's a good steal against me Mm-hmm Melee supports were underrated, but the bush nonsense gave the advantage to arrange supports a little bit Um, I agree. Yeah Overprime is like a 1970s playboy way too much bush There's always there's it's like I like how there's a way around everything Even even when there's a bush even when there's a melee hero or support against you Yeah, there's always ways to counter that There's always a right hero to counter the enemy hero like there's there's tactics all you got to do is like experience Yeah, getting those reps Under your belt definitely like helps figure out how to counterplay stuff. Uh, I over the course of the Last test. I think I played against two really good steals. I remember them because It's a shutdown was absolutely insane I Played a revenant one game and only one game because of what that seal did to me in that one game I like would open my mouth for the spit attack and he would tell me to shut it It was so quick So pronounced and so violent against my ego I walked into that game thinking I just want to pop-stop because last game I had to try too hard And then I left that game like, you know, revenants not really that good I Left that game a crit's not really that strong like revs fine. It's like it's whatever, you know, man a good steal is Dude's a monster. Uh, I still think Muriel and like all the Actives that she has under her belt to heal Give shield give movement speed On top of a ton of other stuff is pretty pretty insane. It's pretty insane. I'm a muriel believer now. That's for sure Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I remember that game when you actually tried on muriel I was like, I don't think muriel has a role here and and mangoes all it took him was Take that muriel and play her man. He was he was robbing around the whole team He he showed us what a true muriel can do. She's still, you know, very uh, Very good support and paradigm the over prime. I know she was kind of the least favorite back in Even when we played full I did see a lot of muriels or a lot of good muriels beside using them as a carry She's very useful as support here. She's she has her kit. She's still as powerful. All her kit is this, you know Pretty awesome in my opinion Uh, yeah given steel, um The stun back on his bonk would be massive cat. That would be massive. That would be great I hate that it slows. It feels like you didn't even hit your shield Yeah It it feels passive in pred. Uh, I I was playing a game earlier this morning. I was like, can I get a gang commit and I did? I forgot my friend was playing steel jungle kind of works and he like Slides in knocks them up and before they can land on their feet. It's a smack And like dudes gideons asleep. He's like, I just want a portal away Dude took him out of it like that shield bash uninstalled It happened and I was like Jesus and but he was like he was like sorry for taking the kill. I'm like, dude, you're fine I was just gonna nom flashbacks That shield bash man. Yeah, bringing that over to bringing that over to paragon I think would be a really good move. I feel like this slows a little less Play on words impactful if you will But yeah, I don't know the overall All the characters in paragon the overpowering feel pretty good to me The one thing that doesn't it's just crit Crit is there's no limit to crit remember that. Yeah, you could have 200% crit It makes you shoot twice Guys, I get it. Richter has 200% crit bill. That's how they fix up But no, like it I didn't realize that initially because I just assumed There was a cap right But I think a cool way to fix it and this is not I appreciate that program I um A cool way to kind of fix crit and I saw this online in the post. This is not my idea is once you get past a certain crit percentage Reduce the amount that the crit damage does but only to a certain threshold. So let's say it caps at 40% Once you hit 50 any crits you do instead of doing 50% in addition to your things damage. It now does 40% Once you hit 60% crit chance to hit and now does 30% additionally 80 an additional 20% you hit that 100% then it kind of becomes like This give and take thing if you want to hit that sweet spot of like 60% crit 50% crit depending on what kind of build maybe you're building attack speed and you're like I'm okay. Critting you 27 times in this team fight for like that extra 20% damage But that was just an idea. I was like, I think that would be cool It would make building for new players a little bit harder though in my opinion, which could be a definite drawback I don't know a lot of different ways that kind of done. I think they just need to reduce the crit modifier, but That's kind of a that's that's a cool idea right there at least And it was it was on like an overprime threat and seeing the community kind of getting involved and like What if we did this is I I've definitely think a very positive sign for the future of this game It's going to be interesting too when it's out for good like When december 8th rolls around um and people get have it on there in their hands for about a month to see what develops Because i'm sure like like you you saw just over the course of the final beta test people being able to adjust A certain heroes knowing how to play against them and being able to shut them down and stuff Yes, still I don't think we any of us had enough time to know you're laughing at What When you hit 50% right your hooks go through walls That idea must be taken on your head. We must see from that. I whip that on a t-shirt Okay, i'm sorry What what were you saying about my apologies? Uh, it's it's lost with that ripped ripped or full. It's it's gone. It's Outer 50% ricketer pulls the thoughts from your head Oh man Over 50% it goes through walls under 50% and attaches two walls that pulls ricketer to the wall like spider-man pulls to the wall I like it. Did we did how have we not got you on the development team? Yeah, I don't know I need to get me in there I Move pop to the real early mornings for you, dude Um, again, if there's anything else you guys want out of let's wrap up here I did want to say to the people here that today unfortunately We do not have stunt with us on board. He isn't the chat active since the start of the of the episode stunt Is absent from today's throw, but he will be back. Hopefully We hope him gets to feeling better next week Yeah, he had to go to a flat earth convention if you guys are wondering Where is that? I gotta make up some dumb shit for people that that are missing that's their punishment That's their punishment. I'll dare you not be here. How dare you get sick stunt. All right Can't believe you'd hit 150 No, seriously though, uh, I do hope stunt can be back soon. Uh, he's super awesome The conversations we've had the games we've played some of such a cool Dude, I can't wait to do this show and stuff with him One of the nicest dudes I've ever met in my entire fucking life and he has uh, we'll probably bring up the whole ps Five conversation again next week because stunt did have a lot to add to that and um talking about the unreal engine And all kinds of stuff like that. So once stunt comes back, we'll we'll tackle that topic once again but um Yeah, do you have anything else to add low before we Before we wrap up Not at all. Um, I believe um our next uh episode will be again, uh, just like usual every friday And um, what's today? How many days we got we got d minus five d minus six here in the us six more days until the launch um, just you know hoping for the best hoping to see things that um, you know We'll make us rate paragon the over prime at a higher Ranking I believe right now. I'm very excited played it enjoyed it waiting on it waiting to see what comes next um You know, again, you guys come in try out different games You know, have fun. That's all I'm gonna say have fun Yeah, um Once again, thank you guys for you know having me. I'm looking forward to the show with you guys every week um Dude and by this time next week We will be playing Paragon the over prime like we'll we'll be back in full time doing it making content doing videos seeing how the monetization looks in the game And with that in mind, I'm just you know excited to see what the future like paragon has for not only for us before the community Yep, 100 that's gonna be it's gonna be crazy It's going to be a good show next next week because we're going to have that launch We're going to know if they fixed anything what they fixed and if they have controller support We're going to know their monetization. We're going to have a lot to talk about next week, but um, yeah, um Check out lo's youtube and twitch linked in the description below check out egos youtube linked in the description below But um, I think that's going to do it for this week. This is the the the pop signing off you guys have a good one You guys have a good one. Bye Bye end