 HBCU Digest Radio welcome back. I'm your host, Jared Carter. Today we are certainly privileged to have with us a great friend of the HBCU Digest, a friend of the show for many years. Dr. Tony Stewart, an acclaimed actress, a acclaimed trainer of the theater arts, the Dean of Alabama State University's College of Visual and Performing Arts, and soon to be retiree. So Dr. Sewell, we're talking to you in your office, you haven't left, you've cleaned the stuff out. But you still hang around. I mean, why now? Why now? And I think before we get into it, people got to understand that what you've done, not only in your individual career as an actress, but in the HBCU space of having developed that Alabama State of All Places, a performing arts program that is the target of people on Broadway, the target of people in Hollywood, and every other theatrical, and in education, and in equity theaters. How have you, I mean, we could talk all day about how you did it. But when you look back on this, are you surprised at what you were able to do? I'm grateful. Because when I visited Alabama State University, while in town, to film with James Earl Jones on Saturday night with Connie Chung, a television special, to talk about the life and contributions of a Reverend Jones who preceded Dr. Martin Luther King at Dexter Avenue Church. One of its members, Dr. Ralph Bryson, who was an extra in the group, and a professor at Alabama State University of Great Note. He's a Kappa man who is known to the world of Kappas. He came up to me and he said, I know who you are, and I want to take you somewhere and show you something. And he was referring to knowing me as being noted for being the first African American female to receive a PhD from Florida State University because he was an avid reader of the Chronicle on Higher Education. So I went with him to the campus and he pointed out the theater, and I was amazed to see a beautiful theater, intimate theater, with all the bells and whistles, a dance studio, two large dressing rooms, mirrored dressing rooms, costume shop, scene shop, green room, black box. I said, I've never seen such a facility on the HBCU campus. And in 1990, it was the only one. There was a legitimate theater and no one had really said a lot about it in the circuit of the National Association of Dramatic and Speech Arts and of the American College and Theater Festival. No one had mentioned this. And I was amazed. So he then took me to meet his president. And to my further amazement, it was Dr. Leon Howard, who I had worked with at Jackson State University in Mississippi. And Dr. Howard said, Tommy, we have a theater here, but we're in the process now of eliminating theater on this campus. I thought, no, you can't do that. That facility is wonderful. He said, well, can I talk to you more? And the rest of it is history. They were trying to leave you in the whole time. That's right. So my husband and I have to interviewing at other institutions, basically five or six others, which were predominantly white. We found ourselves being drawn to Alabama State because at one of the interviews, one of the university administrators said to us, tell us who we're competing with, because we really want the two of you. My husband is a PhD as well in education administration. So we started naming the schools. And the first one out of my mouth was Alabama State University. And the administrator said, no, no, no, no, no. We don't want to know about the little penny any schools. We want to talk about schools that are in the top 10 that we're competing with. And it took my breath. So I said to him, let us get back with you. And when they flew us in and they flew us home, when we got on the plane, I told my husband, I said, you know what, you write down what's on your heart and I'll write down what's on mine. And when we got home, he asked me, he said, did you hear what that man said? I said, yeah. I heard him. I said, he said, penny any. I said, Oh, Alan, that hurt me so bad. And he said, well, what did you write down? And we both wrote Alabama State University. Now, mind you, Alabama State University was not the biggest bitter for us. It was it didn't have the biggest package for us. But it was a step up from what we were where we were working and what we were doing at the time. And we were at Jackson State and my husband was working as the it worked as financial aid director. And he was the human resource director. And I was an associate professor of theater and speech. He became the vice president of student affairs at Alabama State. And I was invited in as the director of the theater arts program. It wasn't a department yet. As a matter of fact, there were no students. But the facility was there. There was one young lady that had her minor in theater. And she was very good. And she stayed with me. And we recruited the rest of the story because when I left as department chair in 2000, we had 2010, we had 128 theater majors. We were accredited as a department of theater. And when I became dean at Alabama State in 2010, we became accredited in art. And we were already accredited in music. So our college is one of the few HBCU colleges in the nation where all departments within that college of performing arts, that they're all accredited. Talk about that a little bit because I don't think that you get enough credit as a as an academician. Everybody in the HBCU circle knows you as, you know, this wonderful artist. But you indeed are an architect of the academic rigor of that program. Was that something that you developed over your time and learned, hey, this is what we ought to do? Or was it was it something that you recognize accreditation? It's value in in delivering a quality product to the students. And you just said, hey, as we go along, let's let's go for this benchmark. Both. You hit it on the mark. Both of your questions are the reasons why we became accredited. The students were flocking here. And our administration early on said, you don't really need to be accredited. Look at Sybil Marbley at Florida A&M. They didn't worry about accreditation because she had such a dynamic program. And I was very familiar with her and had even traveled a couple of times and been on the airplane with her and sat right next to her while attending Florida State. So I admired her work. And I knew that I learned that the business industry across the nation admired the work at Fair Mew from the College of Business. So I took that into consideration and I didn't worry about accreditation at first. I worried about trying to get the right people on board so that we would be as strong and recognized like Dr. Sybil Marbley at Fair Mew in business. But then the more we worked, the more we knew we needed. And the standards for accreditation require you to have more up-to-date, more of the right people on hand. The programming must be directed and have a vision. And you need to align yourself with the needs of the students. And it's all about what the students need so that they can succeed after they leave your university. And that to me became paramount. The students were talented. The students had a good foundation given to them here. But they needed more than that. They needed finances so that their productions and when they worked on a production as a technical person, as a costumer, as a set designer, they needed art cad and they needed whatever technical material and programming on the computer that would prepare them so that wherever they went after leaving Alabama State University, they would be strong and proficient in it. So the standards of accreditation require you to have art cad. Requires you to have the right amount of space for a movement class and to have rehearsal space and to have the right teachers with the proper credentials. We found ourselves having to change out some of our faculty because they had had a couple of hours in, let's just say lighting, but they didn't have everything they needed to really pass on the fundamental information. So luckily, I had worked in children's theater, created dramatics, acting, directing professionally, and in the classroom. So I was able to cover a lot of areas, but I wasn't enough. So that's why I went to the administration and said, may we please now look at becoming fully accredited so that we will be a force to deal with. Our graduates have always received scholarships for graduate schools. As a matter of fact, at one point, at one point in time, we didn't have to send the students off to audition at URDA or at SCTC because the schools came to us wanting to see our students before anybody else could see them at URDA or SCTC. The Southeast and Theater Conference is a place where students would go and show themselves and audition and showcase their talent in hopes that their transcript and their recommendations would make them eligible to even be admitted into a graduate program. But we were able to have people come and say, listen, we're going to work with you, whether you, you know, we want you. Don't worry about going to URDA. We want you. And those students now have increased the number of master fine arts of African American students. And we have some European American students as well with their MFA's and all of them, they went on to graduate schools. And there was a time if we had 10 graduates, nine of them were in graduate school. And they were there on scholarships. Do you ever feel like, and I would imagine your career individually has been one that's like, oh, you know, the sister from Mississippi, you know, went to HBCU. It's almost, it almost has a diamond in a rough quality to it. As renowned as you are, it almost is like, you know, where it, you know, this, this is an anomaly. And it almost is like that program is a reflection that this, this program in Montgomery, Alabama is churning out great artists in theater, dance and, and music and visual arts. Did that, did, did you ever take pride in that? Or was that a point of frustration that you had such a great product? And whether it was geography or just the HBCU label or that it never, it never rose to the level of a USC or an NYU, even though its product was on par with that. And in a lot of cases above those schools. Well, I took pride in the fact that many of the students were very much like myself. They were diamonds in the rough, whether they were in art or music or theater or dance. They had something, but what they needed was to believe in themselves. And yes, we've had to make do too long. But when you think about the genesis of this university, Alabama State University was founded by five former slaves. These slaves put their money together and started a school. And on that premise, I've always tried to continue to tell our students how, I said five was nine, tell our students that you've got to believe in yourself because somebody believed in you before you were born. You've got to believe in yourself because Rosa Park was right here in Montgomery and she sat down so that you could stand up. You've got to believe in yourself because Ralph Abernathy was born right across the street here on this campus. And so was Nat King Cole. You've got to believe in yourself because the foundation has been laid for you is your responsibility to build. And that's not just at Alabama State, but our young people need to start thinking about that right now every day. Even this generation of young people starting now need to know that somebody has prayed for them. Somebody has always believed in them. Somebody has hoped for them. I know our generation seemed to look like it's all about ourselves, but it's all about ourselves shining so that our students, our children, and our grandchildren will have a reason to go on for tomorrow and not commit suicide, not take drugs, not run from what they think they might become, but be who they are. Stand on your own ground. Exist at this moment. It's so important to take advantage of every moment and know that right now I'm a child. Now I'm a teenager. Now I'm a young adult. Now I'm going to be a father or a mother and be that to the best of your ability. Take no compromise, no wooden nickels. Nobody telling you that you are no good at it because you are good at it. You are there and you've been blessed to have this child or to be in this position or to make it to be that young adult for a reason. Everybody has something to contribute. And why are you going to shortchange yourself from contributing? Yes, I take pride in every step of the way, every step of the way to where we are now. And I take pride in being able to retire and say, okay, I feel pretty good. And I'm going to do something else. I'm waiting on that sign. That sign from God. He will lead me or wake me up. And I'll say, ah, okay, that's what I'm supposed to do now. I was going to say that's a couple of movies on Netflix probably. Like that. You, one of the things that really marked your work with the students at Alabama State is the acting, the quality of the acting, the quality of performance. And you've talked to me in previous times where we've done the show about the being method. Talk about how you infuse that in your students and how much work it took to get them ready for Broadway quality and stage quality performance with that particular method of acting. Being is a technique introduced by Frank Silvera. Frank Silvera was known for his role on High Chaparral. And as Frank Silvera told everyone that he was African American, he looked like Chinese. He could be Mexican. He could be Asian, white. I don't think he ever really played a black role, but he lived his life as saying and knowing who he was. He was from Kingston, Jamaica. And so Frank Silvera said that America had its own acting method because we are a melting pot. So Frank Silvera started the American Theater of Being in Los Angeles, California. And he produced and directed the play, The Amen Corner by James Baldwin on Broadway. And it was the first all black African American play produced, directed, publicized, managed, written by African Americans, starring actress B. Richards. Vantyle Whitfield was the managing producer, Nat King Cole financed the show. Frank Silvera directed it. James Baldwin wrote it. Whitman Mayo was in it with B. Richards. Art Evans was in it. Art Evans was the youngest child actor to be a part of the American Theater of Being Company. Marlon Brando joined him after they left Actors Studio when he announced in an Actors Studio meeting that he was black. Marlon Brando joined him with the American Theater of Being. And I was his last student, a young man named Henry Brown that lives in California in the Santa Barbara area, who is also an actor. And I, we were his last students. Frank Silvera took me to Hollywood, introduced me to Jack Roberts at 20th Century Fox, who was a casting director. And Jack Roberts became the head of casting for the Screen Actors Guild. And he told me that I had something unique. Frank Silvera said, when you are being, you are in a complete and perfect state lacking no essential characteristics. In other words, you believe in yourself, you trust yourself, you know how to step into the moment and wear the shoes of that character. Take off your shoes, get into that moment, which is an existentialistic existence. In other words, it's an existentialistic journey. It's a moment that has no real beginning or ending when you're in it, you're there, you're there, it touches you, you feel it, you react to it. It's pure, it's real, so real that it becomes something that becomes communal to those witnessing it. So they experience it with you. So that's what I've taught. And in teaching it, you have to help your students, your actors to strip down all of the layers of their personality. Peel off like an onion, your frustrations, your fears, your past, your concerns about what people think you look like, what they think of you, all of the outside things, peel that off and get to the purity of yourself. And it takes time to do that. That's why it was so great for the stage being. And it's also good for the camera, but you need to be able to free yourself, peel. Sometimes when I go, you know, now auditioning and I'm here on campus and I've been in a heated meeting where two faculty members or a student is upset and I've got to go and audition, it is very difficult to suddenly get to that audition room and peel what I've just left. And I had a secretary once every time I would go to L.A. to audition. Soon as I get off the plane, she's calling, calling, calling. And I say, what's going on there? Oh, doc, listen, this so-and-so just call it. And all of a sudden, all of that is poured into me. So now you got to take it all off before you go into the audition. And I've got to try to find a way to peel it off before I walk into that audition. And then I walk into the audition suite and there's some personalities that I've met before. You came all the way here from Alabama. There's another layer I got to peel off. So sometimes it would be very difficult. But that's what I would teach. I would teach them about peeling and teach them about feeling and teach them about what being really means. And it's something that you can't just talk about. It is a process that you have to experience. Be richest used to say, take note. And she didn't want you to write anything down. Neither did Frank Savera. He wanted you to hear, to witness it, to experience it, and to see it in your mind so that you can go back to that place, to the core of your being. The word dictates itself. The word reverberates on itself. The word is like a seed. There's nothing more can be from that seed but what it is. So you go for truth. What do you think you're going to miss most about teaching, instructing, mentoring, being a part of the campus community as you're acting life and career? Is going on and still going strong. But what are you going to miss the most about the academics out of you? I think I've played in this game so long. I don't anticipate missing. I really don't. I might be in for a shock. But because I deal with existentialism and existing now, what was was and what is to come is to come. So for me to to sit back and reflect and miss something, I've done all I can. I love Donna McClurkens' song. After you've done all you can, stand. When you stand up, it's most times you're getting ready to go somewhere. Yeah. You know, when you stand, you don't stand up to sit down. So I don't anticipate missing because I try to play this act out all the way. Every day. All the way. Sometimes when I really needed to sleep or go to the restroom, I sacrificed because I was needed to hold firm and give. And I tried to do that. So for me to miss something, I hadn't thought of that. Well, you know, there's a certain rhythm to working. You know, you get used to doing something every day, every other day, talking to the same people every day. You miss Lois. We got to, I have to say a special shout out to her because she's been so helpful to me over the years. Yeah, I'll call Lois. Lois is not going anywhere. She ain't going with you. So with that, with that in mind, I do have, I think I'll tell you what, I can say this. I would love to see all that we can do about having a resource center for being, having Be Riches and Frank Sovere and my information available for persons who want to study it to complete the book about being. I'd like, you know, things like that I hope to do. I'm so busy looking forward. I don't know how to look back. That's your page taught me that. Yeah. He said, don't look back. Something might become, you know, something might be crowding on you. Well, and that actually leads to the last thing I want to ask you, because how did you, you know, particularly with artists and people who live in the creative, we, you know, we can get kind of singularly focused on one thing that drives our hearts to do something and you have kind of done both. You, you pursued artistry and you pursued academics. If somebody was following you and they said, you know, I really want to be a singer. I really want to be an actor, but I know that I should have some kind of educational grounding. If I would encourage that, would you encourage that? Yes, Lord. Yes. Yeah. And I think that's part of the satisfaction, the yin and the yang of my personality is that, that active role as a professional and it all started at the same time and the active role as an academician. So that's why I feel so fulfilled. And now I want to, I'd like to give a lot of attention to as much that I can do now that I couldn't do when I was trying to do both. I just didn't even try to be considered for a leader leading role anywhere. I just, you know, it was just not possible because these young people are here and they need to take a test and you know, they need to prepare for an audition. So I would be happy when I worked on it. He did the night Carol O'Connor was so good. He and Ed letting when we, I talked to them about I need to teach my classes on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. And if you can, if you can arrange my shooting dates Fridays and Saturdays and Mondays week, this will work. And they said, well, why don't you just come on full time? Not right now. Not right now, I would say. And they laughed at me. And now when I think about the bank, I laughed at me too. My love was stronger than my income. But they went along with it because it was economically great for them. And for me, I was thinking, well, whatever I make with, he is good. And then I have my salary at the university. That'll balance me out. But that was not always wise. But I don't regret it. All for love. All for forgetting those. All for the love again, and helping somebody. The eyes of my students, that's the thing that really haunts me. If anything, when I see young people and I look into their eyes and I see emptiness, then I probably will think about what else can I do. But I'm hoping that I'll think and believe that my students will pick up the baton and carry it on for generations to come. We had a summit in October, and we hope to have another one every other year, where we certified those who have truly made great strides with their careers, the ones on Broadway, the ones who filming, the ones who teaching, the ones who have made a full circuit of their life's work, is acting in equity theaters. We had them to come and review the being process again and certified them and gave them credentials that they can hang on the wall to say that they are practitioners of being. They can now teach it anywhere. They can open up their own studio anywhere. And I'm hoping that I'll be able to refer those eyes that doubt when I see them to those particular students, and then we'll have another group. We'll have about 15 every other year that will be certified in being. So, I hope I have answered your question, because I just don't anticipate longing when I have so much, you know, I have so much I'm doing. I'm a museum director now. I've been directing for the International Civil Rights Museum in Greensboro, North Carolina, the Rosa Parks Museum, and the Children's Wing here in Montgomery, the African American Museum in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. And some of the museums have offered me to exhibit some of my paraphernalia, my artifacts on a wall in those museums. So, it's going to take me a while to archive and catalog my information. So, I'll know where it is and my children will know when I'm no longer here where those artifacts are. Right now, I'm looking at about four different sites that might house a wall in honor of Tania Stewart. So, that's exciting.