 Welcome everybody to Iran book show living objectivism. We're gonna be talking about today We're gonna be talking about a novel. I just finished reading and I don't usually talk about novels and books Well, of course other than I ran books But this one is so relevant to everything. I've been talking about in the last few weeks that I just couldn't resist and it's so I Mean the novel is not a I don't think the novel is a good novel I think the novel has huge aesthetic problems. It's basically unbelievably naturalistic but It is a really really interesting novel it and it relates again to the specific Issues I've been talking about which is the future of Europe the problem of Islam And and the future Western civilization and the question of what is? West the civilization what is? Western civilization So You know, so we're gonna be talking about a little bit about those and I've talked about them a lot recently So I'm not gonna I'm gonna try and know to repeat a lot of what I've said But I want to talk about it in the context of its novel now. Let me just say I think the novel is definitely worth reading It's called submission It's by a French author by the name of shell Well, I back I don't don't give me a hard time. I don't speak French and these names I mean the spelling is ridiculous in this name So I don't know. I don't know if the spelling if the names are right But Michelle Hulu back the novel is submission and I guess the novel Michelle Hulu back is a very well-known French novelist is considered One of the great novelists of his generation not just in France, but all over the world He's been a best-selling author. He's won prizes. He's done very very well as a French novelist he is definitely a Naturalist and we'll talk more about kind of his philosophy the author's philosophy. I also want to read To you from an interview he did about the novel, but the novel really achieved notoriety Two and a half years ago and well almost three years ago, and I feel kind of bad talking about the novel only in the sense that The novel came out a long time ago, and I only got to read it now and and I got to read it Let me tell you how I got to read it and and and then I'll tell you how it got notorious But I I came to read it because I was doing an event with Fleming Rose Those of you don't know Fleming Rose is Fleming Rose was the publisher who published the Danish cartoons in 2005 and I got to know him in 2006 and we become friends and We've done a lot of events together since 2006, and I was in Copenhagen and we were doing a debate on Can civilization continue survive if you will in a multi-ethnic multicultural multi-religious world and You know and that's so so it's it's a it's an interesting question. It's an important question It's a crucial question that that Europe is Engaged in right now. It's a question that Islam brings to the forefront given the extent to which Islam is You know is Dominant if you will as an alternative if you will culture in Europe right now and So it was a great event and I think there might be video or audio of it I'm gonna try to locate it when you put it up on the podcast but but in the Q&A Fleming was asked about this book submission and he Basically said it was a great book and in a really important book and a really important book in terms of this question This question of Islam and the question of the future in Europe and the question of the various alternatives And how the future of Europe will actually evolve So I picked it up and started reading it and I got into it. It's it's very it's well-written I think I don't know if I would have read it if I would have finished it unless I was interested in the particular issue That the book deal deals with which is the future of Europe and and it deals with I think very from an intellectual perspective from a philosophical perspective from an ideological perspective and I think it deals with it very How do I say it very smartly so it's a smart setup It's a clever way of presenting a point of view and the point of view is pretty shocking But the point of view is very much in line With my views about the West and about Western civilization The author disagrees with me completely philosophically it will get to that. I mean is it completely on the other side? but because of that he sees where this is heading in a way that I think a lot of people are missing and Because he is I think this author is Europe in a sense that he represents the intellectual landscape of Europe He is what Europe is right now and his character in the book is Europe represents Europe and and the choices the Europe faces of the choices the character faces and The attitude and the philosophical framework of the character of the other are the attitudes of philosophical framework of Europe so in many respects this novel this story about This individual is a story about about a much bigger story about Western civilization at least in its European manifestation because I think it's an American manifestation is quite different So we can get to that We can get to that or what if you by the way if you want to call in I'll feel free to do so three four seven three two four three zero seven five three four seven Three two four three zero seven five now Let me just say because I see somebody's already got a question mark and what already wants to talk that if you're calling in I want you to call in on this topic Not on some random question. We can do that at the end of the show But right now I want you to call about Europe about Islam and particularly about this novel You know, so I'm gonna give you like a few seconds to change your mind Just in case you're not calling about that and and and then I'm gonna I'm gonna take you call in Let me just say some background information This novel came out in January in January on January 7th Actually 2015 and the date is important because it actually was published on the day of the attack on Charlie Hebdo So it was published the day The jihadist walked into Charlie Hebdo and killed all those cartoonists and all those journals But it's more than that the cover of Charlie Hebdo on that day was about the novel and about the the author So he was on the cover of Charlie Hebdo the day that they were attacked and Of course that did and of course the novel deals with the question of Islam in Europe Particularly specifically in France and that just blew up and and now he is a very famous novelist So the novel would have been a bestseller anyway, but here it became a bestseller in France instantly and became bestseller all over Europe And then it was very quickly translated into English and it came out in in the UK and in the US I think it's September to 2015 Let me just see when was this well in November the New York Times Wrote two book reviews about the book. It was that deemed that important that they wrote two book reviews I think they were generally Displeased with the first book review. It was a little bit too positive for their liking So immediately the following day they came out with an alternative book of view that was much more negative You know, but really really Really really interesting responses I've been reading reviews of the book because I think you can learn a lot about that. All right We got all right. Good question. I put you on mute and and we're gonna leave it at that so This is about Muslim emigration. So it's somewhat related but not directly related to But I think it's within the scope So I'm gonna answer the question. So the question is about Muslim emigration and the difference between Muslim immigration to America versus Muslim immigration to To Europe and why do they assimilate more in the United States than they do in Europe At least that's what the what the surveys and statistics show that they assimilate much better in the United States and and the question is Is it because of in a sense, pre-selection bias? That is the the people who are more likely to assimilate other ones who come to the US or Is it because the US Has some strategy about assimilation that these other countries don't have that European countries don't have I think it's the second I Think they are similar in the United States because in some sense American society demands that they assimilate we still expect people to Integrate into our society. We also have a much more robust workforce we have we What we don't do is What we do do is assimilate them into the workforce for example Most Muslim immigrants get a job in the United States. That's not true in Europe. The the welfare so generous over there with these with these New immigrants that many of them never have a job and I think work and the value that Americans in particular place and work and and the the social value that the value that the socialization that happens in America at work is Is How they assimilate into American society and I think in Europe a There's not a lot of importance placed on work the but also They they don't have to work right they get their social benefits whether they work or not so So they are they are segregated From the perspective of where they live You know in my view Europeans are far far more racist than Americans are You know, they they they're very highfalutin and they they accuse us of racism all the time and so on but but Europeans are Incredibly racist and they have no interest in having these immigrants among them and they keep them out in neighborhoods far away So it's not just the immigrants not wanting to live with the Europeans. It's much more the Europeans who don't want them So they keep them out. They don't get them jobs and so they don't really assimilate in any proper Significant way and so I think that's the main reason, you know, look most people Would like to now, okay So there is there is a sense in which you might be right about the self self-selection bias if you will so because We provide less welfare People who expect less welfare come to the United States and maybe therefore more Assimilate a bill there is that element as well. So that could be the case now I think though that if you if you gave most of the immigrants most of the refugees the option I've gone to Europe. It's come to the US I think most of them have chewed do you choose the US even though that would mean in a sense a harder life for them? because not really harder but in a sense a harder life for them because They would have to work here and they they couldn't just cruise and they wouldn't get as rich of welfare benefits So I think America is still more attractive to Europe for most of these people. I Still think most people who emigrate and most Muslims are emigrating and I'm in emigrating to take over They're not an army. They're not emigrating. I mean they may turn into an army But they're not an army to begin with they're not emigrating to get welfare. They're emigrating for a better life They want a better life Europe provides them with a better life They think and and that's what they're seeking and if they could come to America most of them would come to America instead Even though in America they'd get fewer social benefits and they'd have to work harder They'd actually have to work but that working harder is What assimilates them is what gets them engaged it what get me makes them part of American society in Ways that they're not in French and European society all right So feel free to feel free to ask questions I think the easiest probably way to ask a question is going to be by chat either on blog talk Ask a question do it that way that way. I'll notice it and And pay attention and and answer the question. All right, so That's true a blog talk and our Facebook if you've got a question. Okay, so let's talk about this book Let's talk about this book submission again came out the day Charlie Hebdo The mass against Charlie Hebdo happened the day those journalists and cartoonists were killed And this became a huge book all over Europe and and it's kind of a shame. It took me so long to read And but I encourage you to read it. I think it's fascinating It really really is fascinating and again it confirms my thesis So I'm all for it right because it's I've got a self-confirming bias So so I'm I'm supportive of it All right, so so what is what is the thesis? Well, let me tell you now You know, there are spoilers. It's a naturalistic novel It's not like there's some big suspense about what's gonna happen in the end So they're gonna be spoilers here, but I don't think it really matters If you're interested in reading it go ahead and read it And I don't think the fact that I'm gonna tell you what the plot is because there is no plot really Um, all right, so what happens in this novel? So it's it's really it's told the first person It's told from the perspective of a French intellectual A French intellectual who teachers and studies and writes about literature and he he he's Specific expertise Is in a French author. I do not really know Again, some of some of the world that novel did is really show me how little I know about French culture and about French literature and in the history of France. There's a lot of references and quotations and stuff from From the past that I just don't know a lot about but It's about a scholar of Hoisman. I think I'm pronouncing that right. Maybe I'm pronouncing that Hoisman now It's important to note the Hoisman, of course, is a real character. It was a was an actual Was an actual author in the late 19th century Decadent materialistic And his early novels Kind of describe the the nihilism of materialism and decadence and and the meaninglessness of life and then at some point Hoisman discovers Catholicism and converts to Catholicism and gains spiritual meaning And there's a whole discussions in the novel about the meaning of this conversion and whether because version about religion or what drove it and and and but but This guy studies an author who lived a decadent sex filled, I don't know drug and alcohol filled life And ultimately and wrote about that kind of life And ultimately found God he went to this particularly monastery The monastery of the black virgin which which which has significance in the history Of of France and of the west because it it's it's where I think martel Defeated the the muslims and and therefore saved saved what's western civilization of the muslim invasion and and there's this black virgin there and This is where he was transformed into a catholic So so we have this academic who studies hoisman and and his great achievement his life is writing about hoisman and he teaches and he's in his 40s I think he's 44 and Which is the same age. I think hoisman converted to catholicism And he is This this the hero call him a hero of the novel the the guy who is who is Telling you the story. I hate to hear call him a hero because he's not he's he's so much not a hero The the the the hero of the novel is also a um, what would you say? He is a cynic ultimately kind of a He he doesn't view any meaning in life. He has no purpose in life. He's drifting He he has the one thing on his mind is sex and there are a lot of kind of sex descriptions in the book Primarily they are Sex is purely materialistic purely a materialistic animalistic act But he is obsessed with it in some regard and he has he has these relationships with women and women They're no I mean, maybe there's one or two kind of intelligent women in in in it, but women in the entire book primarily sex objects. It's really He is he is a misogynist if ever there was one the hero and it turns out that the author himself Very little importance to the world to women and what they are women are kind of there to entertain men To to or to take care of men when they get old Or or to cook or to to take care and this fits later on with the whole question of Islam And the attraction of Islam to to this french intellectual And women are you know, it's a sex object and So every year he picks the students and he has an affair with that student for a year And then he breaks up with her at the end of the year and then he starts over again And at the time he's narrating the novel. He's already bored. He's already bored with that. So It's a typical I would say what he represents is typical Western Kind of European values. He doesn't want kids. He doesn't believe in the future Life is meaningless. There's no point. He doesn't really enjoy his job But he gets some satisfaction out of his job Okay, protagonist is the word I'm looking for right He doesn't he gets some satisfaction out of the job And It's it really is the way I view most European intellectuals they It's not even that he's Postmodern it's more than he doesn't care. He doesn't care Is is he a leftist? No Because he doesn't care enough to be a leftist. Is he a right wing? No because he doesn't care enough to be a right wing He kind of observes every politics from a distance But and he kind of he doesn't want there to be too much violence But other than that, he just wants to be left alone He just wants to be left alone. He doesn't know much about the world. He doesn't know much history Beyond the literature that he has studied and the literature that he teaches So he's an expert in his field He's a specialist in his field and knows very little beyond that very little We say everything else that's happening in the world The interpretation of everything that's happening in the world is all conveyed to him and to us as readers Through other characters through speeches that other characters provide so it's a it really is it really is interesting right and It's interesting because I have this view that So many Europeans are like this and this is what the intellectual world of europe is like now some europeans a more How would you say it a more Committed politically to an agenda on the left or an agenda on the right But as the novel shows all of it is superficial All of it is superficial only nobody's really committed to much because they don't know what europe stands for They don't have any connection to civilization And and this it's clear in this in in the novel Europe stands for nothing modern europe stands for nothing There's no values. There's no purpose There's no endgame. There's nothing to live for happiness is a mirage You're just floating drifting through life With nothing right sex sex as a distraction more than anything else Right, I mean and even sex at some point for the main character starts becoming meaningless He starts he goes to prostitutes because he hasn't found A student will get to why he can't find a student But he just he goes to prostitutes and even they he doesn't feel anything He can't feel anything even physically it becomes completely meaningless to him And this is the state of europe in a sense impotent It can't reproduce It has no children. It has no ideas. It doesn't really believe in a future. It's just drifting along Not committed to any ideology. Yeah, you've got some some post-modernist over here And you've got some nationalists over here, and you got some tribalists over there, but nobody's I mean at the at the edges they're committed, but most of the population is just intellectually adrift And that's what the hero the protagonist of this novel is he's going nowhere Doing nothing he's got some prestige because he's written some important articles about this one author This one famous french author, but but any teachers and he goes through the motions But it's all meaningless and it's not just his life is meaningless He portrays most other people's lives as meaningless particularly his parents He's got parents who hasn't seen in six years. They don't really care about him Which is again a reflection of this attitude in europe. We don't care about our children We don't you know, we're too self-obsessed. We're too narcissistic to care about children We don't want children. We're not going to have children And there's a whole thesis here that would drive civilization demography If you don't have children and other people are having children They will take you over and and and that's kind of the underlying idea. So this is the character we've got His parents die It's not even that he really cares. Uh, he doesn't really know much about them It's somewhat traumatic for him, but But again, he's just he's not a valuer They're no values here All right. Now at the same time What's happening in french politics? well You get a sense There's been a lot of violence That there's been a lot of upheaval um And and that the that marilla pens party the national font has gained a lot of traction and That the socialists and the typical conservatives are completely Impotent they they don't stand for anything. They don't represent anything and and they are they they have completely capitulated And that there's a new political party in french A new political party in french and it's called the muslim brotherhood And this new political party is gaining a lot of traction among muslims Particularly among muslims and muslims enough to give it some traction and again if you if you know something about, uh, french presidential elections You have this runoff with lots of candidates and the two gets the highest votes Go on for a runoff And the muslim brotherhood is is headed by a very intelligent very sophisticated um very Educated in a sense of understanding of french culture Born in france muslim leader dresses european and Talks fluent french and is familiar with french culture And and has a specific agenda but talks about it In terms that the french can understand and Because the muslims have enough votes and because he's appealing to some non muslims because think about it What is his agenda as presented? What is this muslim brotherhood agenda? Well, it's Relatively capitalistic on the economic front They're not really interested in economics They want to basically leave things alone They want to get out of the way. They're not big on labor laws. They're not big on heavily regulating They're quite willing to let the market Play itself up What is their position in education? This is where they're positioned. Well That the public schools Like the sauban in paris Those schools need to become islamic And you know they they say in advance that if they win That uh, you'll have to become you'll have to be a A muslim to teach there And the students the female students will have to be completely covered up if they want to be attend the university But other than that they basically want private schools. So they want to privatize education And uh, they believe because of uh, you know, and they're fine with catholic schools They're fine with christian schools And they believe that the private schools will all be religious schools and they're fine with of course islamic schools But they privatize education, which is another kind of appealing thing, right? They they want to privatize education. You can see some libertarians voting for this party And uh, you know Education is only going to be required until the age until they think they've just 12 after that They're not going to require education And the private schools you can be christian in the public schools to the extent there are public schools only muslims can teach And the sabon which is where this guy is teaching is a public school public university and therefore is being Once they win is going to be taken over by the muslims now, uh, so so this is the situation now It turns out that In in this in this election for president the the marilla pan wins by a large margin But the number two place is but she doesn't get 50 percent the number two place Goes to this muslim and now the socialists come in And it turns out that in order to Because they're so offended by marilla pan in order to stop marilla pan. They're willing to cut a deal With the muslims now because the socialists are so unsophisticated They basically cut a deal that is very good to the muslims. They basically give them education um But then the question is what are the so the muslims so the socialists endorse the muslim candidate And then there's the question of what are the kind of the right of center political party kind of the conservatives if you will What are they gonna do? Well, the conservatives are kind of attracted to uh, the muslim party because i mean they're gonna get their christian schools the conservatives also attracted to the fact that, uh You know, this muslim party is not going to tolerate gay marriage And it's not going to tolerate a lot of kind of on the social issues not going to tolerate abortion It's not going to tolerate a lot of the stuff That conservatives don't like So they so some of the social policy That this muslim political party Is uh is going so they so basically conservatives agree to grand coalition Where they and the socialists endorse The muslim party all against the national front Uh muriela pens national fund because the one thing that's intolerable that they will not stand for Is nationalism and fascism and and kind of the the muriela pen the red lapen view And of course as a consequence the muslim wins And he's very sophisticated very suave very easy going very friendly, but The university that our protagonist is working at becomes an islamic university And they offer him a very lucrative pension that he can leave Um, and uh in order to stay at the university he would have to convert to islam now This is the thing the protagonist faces He knows his life is empty and meaningless He knows something has to give he knows he has to go somewhere To gain an anchor Or in uh in in if you think about it in terms of dr. Lena peacock's dim the dim hypothesis He needs an integrated System to live his life because he he's actually considering suicide life is truly meaningless to him So he follows in the footsteps of this man He is studying hoisman and and he tries to connect with christianity And he goes to the monastery and he tries to Get the vibe the spiritual vibe from this black virgin or from the christian teaching and he really really makes an effort Really makes an effort to connect with christianity He's a complete d2 in a dim hypothesis Framework. He's a completely disintegrated human being And he's wants m he wants he wants to be Integrated somehow and the only alternative he sees is is is christianity You know islam is too strange And he tries he really tries but when he goes to church, it's like this is the past This is old. This is dying. This is decay. This is what you were projected already wants and he's not interested He he can't do it. He can't turn to christianity So he's back at his kind of disintegrated nihilistic, you know, uh or hedonistic just empty life And You know, he gets approached to do a productive project and and again he gets excited about being productive And he realizes that he needs again something he needs something to integrate his life. He needs something To to to motivate him to drive him so he can live well He's he hasn't got a girlfriend his girlfriend actually the last girlfriend. He had was jewish and she's gone. She's gone to israel she's escaped fans And because all the jews are being encouraged to leave fans by by this muslim president and so he He's still kind of searching and he's approached by the president of the sobon university Who has a lot of money lots of money because the saudi's of course are pouring money into france They're building schools. They're building madrasas and and they are they are uh, you know, they have, um invested a lot of money in the sobon and Because of that They are spending lavishly and a number of very prominent french academics have converted to islam so that they can continue so that they continue Their career right so now He's being in his long segments where this guy Advocates for islam the president of the university who later becomes Goes to the government and becomes ultimately becomes foreign minister because there's a whole other plan where fans becomes the center of a new roman empire because they start They start embracing northern african countries into the european union All with the goal of french and france being a center Of a new muslim roman empire. So the idea is you're not rejecting civilization you're replacing one civilization with another and So he is he sees all this happening and he's seeing it going on and this president is coming about and you know, and and What does islam have to offer him? Well islam has answers his answers to all these existential questions about reality and about and about What happens when you die and and he actually at some point wakes up in a sweat thinking oh my god If if god is looking at me now, he's gonna hate me because of being such a horrible person and So there's a certain moral metaphysical attraction To what islam has to offer But islam also offers him a job And islam also offers him women Right remember he has got this attitude towards women the sex objects He doesn't really respect them. He has no respect for women and He goes to the president's house and and he's got you know Uh, he's met he's mistakenly sees One of the president's wives the president is somebody I'll tell you about the president a minute one of the president's wives Is 15 years old of course, right young Nubile sexy and she comes out Not covered because she's in his in at a home and she runs out screaming embarrassed And then there's another wife who's older less attractive, but she's a great cook Right And the president starts saying you know You're gonna make a lot of money if you come into work for us Not that money's the issue, but you know money is how we determine how many wives you should have The more money you make the more wives you could have now islam allows for for four wives But you know, you probably don't make enough money for four wives But you'll probably make enough money for three wives think of that opportunity Think about how young they could be these wives And by the end of the novel The Protagonist is projecting at the end of the novel is projecting into the future and how he's going to be converted How he's going to be married and how he's going to have his old job back And how He's not going to ever write anything interesting anymore But but he's going to have some purpose in life And his basic needs are going to be satisfied and he's not going to have to have this existential fear Because he's now on the good side of god So that's the story That's the story of the novel, right? It's interesting And to me it's interesting because a few weeks ago I did a show on the history on the future of europe Which some of you I know have listened to and many of you were critical of where I said That It's the perception That western civilization is about christianity It's the perception that the only option for christianity for the west survive is a return to christianity It is that notion that it's going to kill the west Because either that notion wins out And they go back to christianity And that's a disaster Or that notion is revealed to be outrageous and ridiculous and stupid Which it is But they still need something And then islam just dominates them so they so so if they stay like this are like the protagonist cynical and hedonistic and meaningless and no meaning in life then islam wins Because islam has a set of values and islam not just ruins it converts them because If you don't believe in anything But you don't really believe you're not an atheist. You're not a philosophical atheist You just don't believe in anything because you can't believe in anything because you don't be And you don't like life you don't then why not become a muslim right if the advantage is to be a muslim So it seems like they're only Two alternative presented In europe today and a sense three alternatives Remain the way we are now drifting hedonistic No children not caring about the future Okay, basically kind of post-modern Option number one option number two rediscover christianity find jesus And re-establish the uh, you know the great christian empire in europe That's why everybody looks to poland as the example of wonderful of the of the way to respond to islam poland with its combination of nationalism Catholicism And You know a bit of fascism thrown in there lack of freedom of speech things like that. That's the model. That's the ideal right So return to christianity And the third option Is the victory of islam Now in my view option number one and option number three are the same Option number one and option number three are the same that is if europe stays Drifting hedonistic not caring about the future not having any values Then they will become muslim It will become muslim Those options are the same and that's what the novel projects And i would argue and the novel argues right i'm not sure i agree but the novel argues That option number two is already impossible Too much water under the bridge Europeans are too cynical They can accept islam because of advantages to being muslim But there's nothing in christianity that really appeals to them Nothing in christianity they can appeal to them They're too cynical about their history to go back to christianity So they're dead They're dead now The real option if you will the fourth option Is not discussed because it doesn't exist from their framework and this is where i found it interesting Uh an interview with the author to be really really interesting right um Because what is the fourth option? Now so again three options stay the way they are Not an option really that's a zero option because that can't happen You lose if you stay the way they are post-modernism can't sustain culture d2 Complete disintegration complete lack of values complete nothingness cannot sustain a culture That's option number one option number two become christian two problems with that one One you have to become christian With all the problems that that entails including by the way and and i think one of the reasons One of the reasons the uh the author or the protagonist in the novel can't become christian Is its attitude towards sex? Right, you can't just marry three women. You can't have sex with anybody christianity is an anti-sex religion And it's an anti hedonistic religion It's about sacrifice and suffering in the novel He calls it a feminine religion And I understand why he does that he calls it a feminine religion because it's Fundamentally weak It's fundamentally about turning the other cheek Again, I'm not saying that that's my perception of femininity, but this is what he is trying to convey It's fundamentally about avoiding sex avoiding vices You know and he he associates all that with with a feminine It's about suffering. It's about sacrifice It's about all the things That europeans don't really want they don't really want to sacrifice. It's not that europeans are Uh in that sense altruistic in terms of their personal lives they're not at all they're much more hedonistic than they altruistic So christianity is just unappealing And if it was appealing How awful would that be if if christianity became Come if if europe I'd say became committed not just floated with became committed to christianity So imagine the combination of chanteonism and christianity In europe, I mean it's a disaster and and it's fascist It's it's nationalist And it's Deadly it's deadly We're not talking about an enlightenment christianity. What the hell that means, right? We're not talking about the the christianity the founding fathers. That is not on the table. That is not an option We're talking about the christianity of sacrifice of a post-continent christianity of the christianity it is as it's as it's Reflected for example in the pope right now and we're talking about catholicism Because Protestantism doesn't integrate enough If if europe particularly france And germany go back to christianity. It's gonna be catholicism It's gonna be brutal. It's gonna be you know, again what the polish and the hungarians are floating floating with right now The other option is islam Which is much more appealing much more appealing For men not for women, but for men But but the novel makes it very clear That deep down Now whether it's true or not You guys will tell me deep down French men don't really care about women French men are the french male chauvinist of the past and they they miss The past they are intimidated by strong women. They intimidated by feminism. They're intimidated by uh By the idea of of independent women and what they really want Is to put women in their place and here comes islam helping them out Does it for them? right By the way, somebody jason on facebook says It's interesting that the thought process in the novel doesn't seem to care about the question. Is it true? Absolutely, because we live in a post-continent post modern europe What is true? Who cares? It doesn't matter. This is pure Pragmatism if you will right but pure contentism. There is no truth There is just what's What works what's acceptable what will get you ahead what will get you the most wives? What will please you the most what will get you the most satisfaction? There is no pursuit of truth now. There's some attempt To convince this guy that god really does exist because And i i'm off track again, but that's okay I'm gonna go back to to the fourth alternative in a minute because i was gonna tell you about the president of the university The president of the university Grew up an atheist Then figured out that atheists grew up by an atheist in belgium. I think on belgium. I think And very european right and and figured out that atheism didn't make any sense That didn't provide any answers that it didn't move anything didn't provide any values So he turned to to christianity to catholicism and he He devoted himself to it and he was a nationalist so he was a A marie lapin like national front type guy. He was it what he calls in the book. They call it a nativist, right? And he was committed to all that he was committed to nativism and to To to so-called western civilization and to religion to the catholic and then He's he continuously Noticed just a weakness of of western civilization that the The appall you know how apologetic it was and how how it it Faded and folded and and it was giving up left and right You know like the danish cartoons where nobody would show them People would take down sculptures and paintings of muhammad all over europe Even in america. Nobody would show them. It's that that resignation That submission right the novel's name is submission after all that the west was practicing The middle of the road. They're not standing for anything and one day He basically flipped he gave up catholicism And converted to islam Now he had power This was a religion He could really embrace because as a man he had power Because he could have all these women as a man he could have power because The religion of islam is a religion of power versus again Christianity which is the book calls a feminine religion a religion of sacrifice or weakness of of jesus on a cross dying for other people's sin It's really important this distinction between islam and christianity islam is a religion of victory islam is a religion of achievement I mean within the context of the religion muhammad the prophet of islam Gets the girl He gets money and he establishes a military political empire Now think about that the prophet of islam gets Women has sex You know enjoys it. I guess right at some level, but but has You know is this worldly in the sense of he has sex, right? But he also has money. He's a merchant and and there's nothing wrong with being a merchant There's nothing wrong with making money Inherent in islam he's successful merchant. He makes money And he goes on military Crusades and he wins Right, he wins vast amounts of territory in his lifetime the Religion of islam is based on a mythology of success of a mythology of victory of a mythology of domination This is by the way why They are so shocked why they are so upset why they are so completely completely Stunned over the last hundred years or really over the last 300 years of their own failure How could they be fair? How could they fail throughout their history? They've been successful and muhammad Ultimately the original the original founder of the religion was incredibly successful and I contrast that with christianity the mythology of christianity christianity is based on a prophet Who pretty much fails at everything right except resurrection, but he fails at everything So the only way christianity can get out of this failure is to make him a god Which is problematic in and of itself because then you have more than one god, but but but that's what christianity does right so He is you know, he has friends who betray him He is then crucified the most horrible death you can imagine for since he didn't even commit He gains no political power in his lifetime. He has a few followers. It's not even a movement It's certainly not a massive religion. He certainly doesn't conquer any territory Indeed for the first few hundred years christianity is oppressed Is is devastated is fed to the lions by the romans It's christianity is at its founding a religion of weakness Of political weakness. Why why give on to Caesar what a caesars and give out to god Why the separation church and state in christianity? Because they have no political power. They can't dream of ever attaining political power this so weak Islam can't comprehend the separation of church and state because from its founding It's religious leader was its political leader and a successful at both in christianity That there is no political success until constantly right And then they get brutal right and then then they conquer and then they get massive right but that's not The essence of christianity. That's not The mythology of christianity. That's not the founding story of christianity The founding story of christianity is weakness right Or not whatever Not much action on the on the chats on the comments. So, uh, you know, I'm not Not sure if anybody's following everybody agrees. Everybody disagrees. Everybody's stunned. How could you even say that? That's crazy I don't know. Um It's nice to get feedback in other words I miss at least teaching in the classroom where you can actually see people's faces as you're saying, uh, these, uh, these outrageous things Okay, so christians is unappealing unappealing so When this european intellectual He's in this void intellectually Faces christianity Yeah, there's nothing that would draw him in there's nothing that would make it feasible for him to actually become a christian islam islam has so much So much to give him Answers to big questions. They go into cosmology and where does the universe come from and all this bs But more importantly, it gives him a backbone And it gives him a sex life And it gives him Right It gives him A career He gets his job So these are the alternatives Alternatives to face europe or the alternatives that face the protagonist in the novel and in The novel The protagonist becomes muslim and ultimately French society becomes muslim and ultimately Europe becomes muslim and islam dominates europe Um And establishes new empire, you know, it doesn't go into the future and how it gets there, but it just suggests this is what's going to happen all right, so What are the alternatives that are missing? So what are the alternatives that are missing? well two i think One is a well one is the possibility That europe adopts form of christianity that is um More confident more aggressive more fascist And that that form of christianity then rises up in the guise of fascism nazism Uh, or just plain old christianity and wipes out the muslims and and i have argued in the past That that's how i see the future of europe. I see it in the form of concentration camps Where where they're killing muslims islam is a threat you wipe them out new crusade i don't know reading the novel maybe has moved me To believe less than that outcome and more in the possibility that islam actually does win in the end That islam actually does win in the end But what is the alternative to all this? That isn't even considered In the novel and i think isn't considered in real life. That's the great tragedy The alternative is the enlightenment The alternative is the negation of religion, but in the name of something in the name of human values in the name of human happiness in the name of You know the pursuit of happiness The alternative is iron rand The alternative is is a secular You know what what lennard peakoff in in dimcore is the eye a real integration the alternative is avastar It's the greeks It's to connect reconnect with ancient greece And reconnect and and look at america at least in its founding as a model to move forward But that is out. That's not even an option in the book. That's not even conceivable And i was reading an interview with the author And it was interesting He says I'm just looking for the quote. This is what he says Let's see. So he says so he's being asked the question. This is the question The same people are often militant anti-racist and fervent defenders of secularism With both ways of thinking rooting in the enlightenment and why is that wrong? And and the author of submission says Look The enlightenment is dead May it rest in peace On the level of what we customarily call values Muslims have more in common with the extreme right than with the left There is a more fundamental opposition between a muslim and an atheist than between a muslim and the catholic so He says You know that that the enlightenment is dead. He later on says My book describes the destruction of the philosophy handed down by the enlightenment Which no longer makes sense to anyone Or to very few people Catholicism by contrast is doing rather well. This is a frenchman talking. This is not me. This is a frenchman Catholicism by contrast is doing rather well I would maintain that an alliance between catholics and muslims is possible We've seen it happen before i'm not sure what he's referring to it could happen again um So he says so the question here goes You You have become an agnostic so i'll talk about his atheism and you have become an agnostic You can look on cheerfully and watch the destruction of the enlightenment philosophy. That's a question and he says yes It has to happen sometime and it might as well have to be now in this sense too. I'm a comteon Comteon augustine comte The guy who who invented the term altruism and gave its its meat and its content This is the he's a comteon. He admits it He says so yes, I am hostile to enlightenment philosophy. I need to make that perfectly clear ah so This is This is what he is right. He is saying the enlightenment's dead and in early on in the interview He talks about his atheism and he says uh, he says My atheism hasn't quite survived all the deaths i've had to deal with his parents are just right and most importantly to him His dog had just died. In fact It came to seem unsupp... unsustainable to me He says I never I came to realize I never was quite an atheist. I was an agnostic Usually that word serves to as a screen for atheism, but not but not I think in my case When in the light of what I know, I reexamine the question whether there is a creator a cosmic order that kind of thing I realize That I don't actually have an answer. I thought I was an atheist. Yes Now I really don't know now Again the position They presented themselves Is untenable the the the post moderns the the post marxist the the the secularists Disvaluing secularists in this world in this world today They put themselves in a possible situation again. I refer you back to Lena pikov's dim hypothesis Everything's disintegrated Everything is meaningless It's not a way to live. You can't survive that way. You can't live that way so They can't handle death. They can't handle tragedy. They can't handle change They can't find meaning in anything they do including sacks The activity the material activity from which we should gain this immense amount of meaning, right It becomes completely materialistic and meaningless to They can't control the world. They can't control the reality around them. They don't know that they believe in reality. They're just drifting drifting drifting They don't believe in reason. They don't believe in the enlightenment. They don't believe in individuals Even though They're just individuals, but they know something is missing something is missing. They have this huge void in them the author In response to another question says I think there's a real need for god And that the return of religion is not a slogan, but a reality And that is very much on the rise and I notice he's saying religion is on the rise not me Not lena pikov and he's saying it in france in 2016 now He is saying religion is on the right in europe It has to be Okay, is there any historic precedent for christian group of faction turning to islam To favor a stronger religion over a weaker one Well, I I don't know partially because it's it's not clear That everybody who converted to islam converted because they were forced to I I don't think that's true Many people didn't convert to islam many jews and many christians didn't They just became second class citizens I think If you go to the balkans, I think if you go to north africa, I think if you go to syria What was the bizantine empire? I think you will find that most people converted to islam Not because they feared for their life but because You know it gave them It gave them a better life in a sense that it gave them more power It gave them more political power. It gave them more economic power and it gave them more sexual power Sexual again in the materialistic sense, right? So I think there's plenty of historical president. I think this is indeed I mean look at look at look at um It's really fascinating if you study the history of islam Which by the way, I've got a course on the history of of the middle east which covers a lot of this content And you can get it on my podcast on blog talk radio It's it's a five part series on the history of the middle east that covers a lot of this But almost every empire with exception Uh with exception of christianity almost well with exception of let's call it western european christianity almost every empire That conquered the muslim world Then converted to islam The mongolians converted to islam um The turks Maybe the most prominent group converted to islam the mongolians Who conquered iran and conquered iraq and conquered much of them of the muslim world converted? When muslims so wasn't just that when muslims Conquered other countries they the people in those countries converted to islam But it's true that when other cultures Other religions conquered muslims They converted to islam. So islam has been very attractive For cultures throughout history. This is this is not A ridiculous assertion by the author of submission to project a world in which people convert convert to islam All right, skyler's asking skyler's it was quoting a number of different passages in the bible one Which which was of strength and one which was weakness and he was asking me um Let me try to find this uh because it's it's a while back. He was asking me Um, well, how do you you know, how do you reconcile this and I don't You can't explain the contradiction of in the bible the bible is contradiction part of the of the of the genius of the bible is To write things into it that people can interpret in any way they want But if you want to see if you want to see what the essence Of the religion is you go to its founding mythology go to the story On which the religion is founded and again the story of the founding of the christian religion and indeed its early history Is a story of weakness. It's a story of political political Weakness but but physical weakness and that's why it's more mystical. It's more spiritual because they had nothing else They had nothing else. They were poor. They were destitute. They were suffering So, um, I don't try to solve contradictions in the bible. The bible is full Of contradictions part of what it is Okay Look, I appreciate everything you're saying But I don't want to I don't want to get into a big debate about the origins of christianity or about the nature of christianity, you know It's uh in my view christianity like like any religion is based on faith It's based on a holy book. These holy books are filled with contradictions They are filled with sentences that mean whatever you want them to mean and you can interpret any way you mean the exact historical Roots of christianity where it comes from Whether jesus christ existed or didn't exist from it doesn't really matter to me that much I suspect the christianity Is as the story goes a spin-off a cult A sect that's spun off of judeism. It's it's similar enough to that so whether that happened in africa or in What is today israel or whether it happened somewhere else? I don't really care Uh, I'm gonna I'm gonna while I appreciate the call and I hope you'll continue listening I really am going to try to go back to my my thesis here Which is not trying to explain christianity and kind of analyze christianity I think what I've said is true about christianity, but it really is and it's not about its roots because We don't really care about the roots Again, what I care about is the founding story the founding story is the story of jesus christ And the question is what does that founding story tell us about the religion and the founding story is about his crucifixion And it's a story about This the the fact that he is persecuted by rome and the fact that he is Impotent in the face of that woman persecution now the way again christianity gets around all this Is by turning it into a god But that's a cop out that's a cop out to create a trilogy a trinity of god that that It's almost not monotheistic. It's meaningless You know he What people see up on the cross is a man suffering for their sins That is not a projection of power and success and political or military or or existential Achievement, which is what islam has islam is a I believe an incredibly powerful religion because And a very appealing religion Because of its focus on victory because of its focus on success because of its focus on this world It's less about the next world It's more about this world Anyway, but but And it's not even what I think which is important here What's important is what these europeans think and I take this author to be an intelligent intellectual sophisticated european right and This is the conclusion he's coming to He's saying europeans need god They need religion. All right I agree with that. I think they do because they need an integrating factor. They need what lennard peakoff shows in his dem hypothesis You need truth Secular philosophy has rejected truth, but you need truth. You need a standard And if secular philosophy has rejected that standard Then what Then you turn to religion to try to find it you turn to religion to try to find it and That is what That is what the protagonist of the novel does Turns to christian he can't find it there. Therefore turns to islam Um, and again, there's a certain element of pragmatism there because because islam offers him Not just truth, but it also offers him money and sex right So You know, that's that's where we are, right? That's where we are um Now uh jason asks me another question food for thought if d2 and christian he will lose to islam Doesn't that also mean that so-called moderate islamic movement would also lose to the devout islamic movement Yeah, yes, but it also It also depends what you mean by moderate and what it means to be devout and of course all of them will fail Right So so at the end of the day religion has to fail and religion will fail because it's detached from reality And islam will fail and islam did fail right islam in spite of its conquest and in spite of everything It had a short golden era Because of its discovery of Aristotle and then and then even though it convinces people to adopt its religion as a culture as a civilization It's empty it's useless it it it completely withers and and as the west of course Completely outshines it by the time you get to the 17th 18th suddenly 19th and 20th century And that's part of the frustration that that's part of the existential angst that that muslims feel is why how can this be happening? Given that we are the true religion given our past successes all right, so There you have it The review of this book Which suggests the same In different ways the same choices that i believe That you have faced us today They might in a book they come to different uh, they make the different choice than i believe will be made But you know i i i I'm willing to accept the novel's conclusion more than i was in the past Because he makes a good case For the superiority if you will in terms of attractiveness of islam over christianity now And again to somebody who is secular and who doesn't care anyway Then i'll take the one that gives me more stuff It's not about truth right remember. It's not about truth truth is gone can't destroy truth So what's the solution? The solution is the other alternative And the other alternative is is the enlightenment the other alternative is a rediscovery of reason the other alternative is a rediscovery of truth in this world The other alternative is a is a is a is a resurrection of enlightenment philosophy But this is the thing There is nobody to do that other than iron man So there's some effort by the so-called the new classical liberals to do it you know the the the sam harris and uh and the davuban and Some who maybe i'm slightly libertarian Or some who are slightly more status there even even A friend flaming rose so there's some effort on the part of cultural intellectuals today To try to bring back the values of the enlightenment But the fact is that none of these figures have solved The problems that the enlightenment presented us with The incompleteness of their defense of reason the incompleteness of their defense of the pursuit of happiness The lack of definition of happiness the lack of the ability To defend individual rights and to defend capitalism and to defend Most importantly, I think egoism and reason so that while While the enlightenment presented us with egoism and reason They couldn't fully defend them. They had an eye An integration a true integration which they couldn't fully articulate and fully defend And this is what kan did he came in and he took advantage of that and he wiped the floor with them He showed up pathetic and useless. They were and how wrong they were because Well, he didn't prove that but he he presented that to the world and the world bought it Because of the weaknesses deep deep deep weaknesses in enlightenment philosophy The only person who has Solved the problems with enlightenment philosophy advance the cause of enlightenment philosophy Closed or or eliminated the weaknesses that exist in enlightenment philosophy Is a new end And until a new end is taken seriously By the better intellectuals in the culture until I ran is taken seriously by the likes of The equivalent of a Sam Harris a Steven Pinker You know Dave Rubin who I think takes them most seriously the most Fleming Rose and so on who really study here really understand really understand The the weaknesses in enlightenment thinking that can't point it out and how I ran solves those issues Until that is understood and that there's a cohort of intellectuals advocating For the enlightenment We're not gonna win And they're just too few of us. So that code would ideally be objectivist, but it didn't have to be just objective But it would have to be people who appreciated I ran as a philosopher And we're just not there These people just don't exist They don't exist And there would be hundreds of us hundreds of us Then the enlightenment becomes an alternative and then You can save western civilization but I fear that Western civilization might have to be wiped out So that it is then rediscovered this time rediscovered maybe even through I ran in some future era And built on a proper foundation and therefore sustainable into its future But how that happens when that happens who knows? But that's you know, we at the institute think of ourselves on kagate really drove this home once out in in house philosopher That our job at the institute is to save the enlightenment That's what the battle is for the battle is to present the world with a With an alternative to the nihilism Of secular philosophy The the and the absurdity and the irrationality Of the religious alternatives to that secular philosophy That's our job. That's what your job is if you're listening if you believe in this if you want a better world Your job is to be the ground troops in a war to defend Forget western civilization nobody knows what that means To defend the enlightenment to defend enlightenment philosophy to defend Aristotle All right We're gonna take another caller. So again, you're gonna experience the echoes Hi, you're new on book show. Who's this? Well, let's just let's just do this Let's just do this. I you know, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna debate you right now Because that's not what I want to do. I I've no interest in debating religion at some other point We'll do a show on religion And plus I've got this echo problem and I can't really take calls and I can't really engage you on the call because I can hear myself speak And it's just it's just a disaster today. So once I figure out all these issues Um, and we do a show on religion. I'd be happy to debate your own religion. But the fact is The fact is everything I've said about religion is true. Um You know and religion is is a is a is the number one problem in the world today The muslim religion the christian religion And but the problem is that the secularists are now much better Because their religion has become cynicism skepticism So There's no way to go other than To rediscover the enlightenment to rediscover those values to re-embrace them To embrace them this time on a more solid more, you know more substantial foundation All right, if if there any if there any last questions on this topic Before before we call it a night Then feel free to write them in the chats and bold In either any the block talk or on facebook. Otherwise We are going to close out and call it a night Which I think is what we're going to do. All right Uh, thank you all hopefully you I don't know if enjoy is the right word, but you found that interesting Uh, I recommend reading the book because I think it it is an interesting book I'm not going to talk about Europe for a while unless something happens because I think I'm I've said everything I've got to say about this issue Um, let me just end with this You can't side with any of the false alternatives It's not that if Europe became christian, it's better than if it became islam muslim. I don't believe that. I don't believe that Um There is no good outcome here The only thing you can do is fight for the truth Is fight for values Is fight for reason and individualism. That's it To ally ourselves with the nationalists The religionists Is to kill any chance of ever winning this battle It's to kill any chance of winning the battle for civilization They are the enemies. They are not our friends We don't have any friends. That's the sad reality. We don't have any friends. We have some friends I consider People on the left like harris and steven pinker as friends people on the right like again Some of the free market thinkers people like dav rubin. I don't know if he's right left center people our allies In a sense on our left and right our allies Are people who still believe in reason and individualism if you don't believe in reason individualism if you're a collectivist You are no friend of mine, and I am not going to form any coalitions with you to defeat islam Because islam at the end of the day is too weak to be a threat The threat is us the threat is Europe the threat is Europe converting to islam or europe converting to christianity or some other form of m2 Which is as disastrous that is the threat you cannot ally with one of those parties And the only thing that can save us from that threat Again individualism reason Thank you all Have a great week. Oh one more thing Well, no i'm not going to do it What I want to do in the future is is once every couple of weeks once every month do a q&a live q&a on here Just questions no agenda just questions. We're going to launch that at some point here soon But I need to figure out all these tech problems. Of course, I'll figure them out for three months and then Facebook and uh, youtube will change something and uh, it'll all be messed up again but Stay tuned. I'm hoping to have if I can if I can solve the technical problems the next week or so I'm hoping to have a q&a uh an open live q&a with me uh sometime here Very soon. All right. Thank you all. Thanks for listening. You've been listening to your own book show Talk to you next week