 Today is a really exciting day. We have Anne Phelmenon who is the CMO chief marketing officer of Blumerang and We talk with a lot of different folks from Blumerang, you know off and on throughout the course of the year But this is a really interesting opportunity for us to kind of get an insider view to a major major report that they just Have conducted and they're going to give us kind of an insider release to to some of this information So and we're really excited to get this I mean we're geeks here and so anytime we get this information This is just like what we live for again everybody. I'm Julia Patrick CEO of the American nonprofit Academy and The nonprofit nerd herself Jared R. Ransom. I Think is stuck in a snowstorm. She was actually in Utah For part of the week and so I think we will see her back. Hopefully tomorrow We want to again thank all of our presenting sponsors from Blumerang American nonprofit Academy your part-time controller Be generous fundraising Academy at National University Staffing boutique nonprofit thought leader and the nonprofit nerd. These are our Sponsoring partners who allow us to have these conversations and it's really an interesting thing to note most of these people have been with us since day one going back now three years and They do not influence our editorial content. We never tell them what we're going to talk about They don't you know push back or or anything sometimes they'll say hey This might be some an interesting guest But it's really an amazing thing in media to have this relationship with these warriors in the nonprofit sector as You have been hearing and seeing and witnessing We're marching on towards our seventh hundredth episode which I think occurs next week And if you want to get any of our back issues or back episodes You can find us on Roku YouTube Vimeo and Amazon fire TV You can actually speak into your smart speaker or your smart remote if you have a smart TV and say the nonprofit show And we'll pop up. It's a little freaky. You got to try it And if you like to consume your content on podcast check us out We're on several platforms there as well. Okay, and I got through my housekeeping now. It's on to you sister Great. Well, Julia. It's a pleasure to be here. I've been looking forward to this This date for many months as we had planned So thank you so much for inviting us on to the show and to I'm really excited to give you a sneak peek on the On the study. This is literally I got the report About a week ago into my hands. So A lot a lot to go through and a lot to dig into So Let's talk about How you conducted this report This is not for the faint of heart to do these types of things And I was telling Ann in the green room. I think it's a really from my perspective Blumerine does something really interesting is that they share their knowledge Even with folks who aren't their clients and that is not traditionally done You know And so talk to us about like why you study And why you do this and then how you conducted this study Well, Julia, thank you for that compliment But at Blumerang one of the central components of our DNA as a company and what we believe our Responsibility is for the sectors one, of course make great software that's easy to use all that good stuff That's one thing but equally important is Research information resources templates guides anything that we can do to Help a nonprofit organization, right? We have limited resources from a nonprofit perspective We feel it's really important to lift up the entire sector No matter what you're choosing, right? So we want to impart best practices the research The ideas the insights to make and help all nonprofits thrive really important so That is an overarching concept and and again Not everybody works this way. So you're starting out from a pretty unique perspective How did you conduct this report and and where did you secure this unbiased information? Great. Yeah, so what we did is we've in the past we've partnered with a number of thought leaders and fundraising experts to Do research and so we partnered with the institute's first sustainable philanthropy So you might know some names like adrian sergeant Jen shang Catherine edwardy Harriet jones day. So we partnered with them to conduct the study. So it was really important to have object, you know third party Help us with the research trying to understand what's really going on in the space and when it as it relates to small and mid-sized nonprofits Okay, wow that just like shoots this out of the park because your credibility is like That's amazing. That's a huge huge thing to Commit to before even then going down this path. How long did this research take you? We couldn't we started with you know crafting the survey and having the conversations We started conversations back in august and then we said we got to quickly get this in before All the the giving season kicks off right because we want to understand What, you know, the goal was around nonprofits and their attitudes and their sense of what's going on You know, we talk a lot about the economy and what's going on So we really wanted to understand for small and mid-sized nonprofits, which often they're not studied or researched to say What are the perceptions? How are they? What are they thinking about? What are they feeling? What do they need risks challenges all those things? So we really wanted to tap into that So that's where we partnered with the institute for sustainable philanthropy to design the survey We fielded the survey In early november And we received we the goal was to get over a thousand respondents, which we did Good So that was fantastic in terms of the the responsiveness trying to understand really what was going on in this space Yeah, yeah, so You know when you think about the data a lot of times you might see research reports that are You know a couple hundred which is great right because it's useful data and insights, but a thousand it's a pretty sizable population To kind of get some key takeaways from that standpoint Well, let's start moving in that direction for key takeaways because Undoubtedly, I mean unless you've been living in a cave You can it's easy to recognize that the past three years have been filled with tremendous change An opportunity has borne a change. I truly believe that and I've seen that but What has been a concern and and where are we seeing maybe some opportunities for change? Should we change? I mean, what is everybody kind of thinking? Okay, well, there's there's a lot to unpack on this one So let's start with the most obvious right and I want to just first start off by saying Every organization we're in you know, we're serving different Sectors and different, you know societal issues and things like that that we're trying to make better Right, so we all have a slightly different experience So it might be you might you know for the listeners today They might be having a little bit different experience love to hear about that but in general A thousand respondents across many different sectors in terms of you know, what they're thinking feeling how they see 2023 and beyond so the big one is obviously the economy And recession right and what's going on there and so what was really interesting was the The thought process that You know what I think it's going to get a little better right the kind of the perception You know what there's always something difficult so that really rang loud and true kind of commentary of Well, you know what yet it's challenging and we are a little bit concerned with Inflation and recession and thinking about our donors, but we always have something difficult facing us when we're trying to fundraise You know Dare I use the word optimism I mean were people being a little bit more optimistic Well, so thank you. That's a perfect tie-in to kind of get a point number one The fundraise so small and mid-sized organizations. These are you know, typically between one to two fundraisers right on on the on staff Yeah, and they actually can so one of the questions was do you feel you're going to be able to hit your targets in 2023? So about 75 so three quarters are saying yes, I feel confident that I can hit my targets And then we asked How you thinking can you can you can you beat your number? Can you exceed your targets and that comes down a little bit more like half or about 55 percent are saying Yes, I feel confident that I can exceed my targets. So there's We can hit plan, but maybe we won't be able to exceed the plan right so a little bit measured in terms of the optimism and outlook on the uh kind of related to that is Internally too, right? There's a lot of There's a lot of staff turnover and Things like that can be a real drain, right can be really stressful and kind of damper our enthusiasm and optimism and actually they're more optimistic about Their organization getting better in the next 12 months, right new leadership coming in new people coming on to staff on staff so it's interesting where they're Mildly optimistic about the economy and the fundraising, but they're even just they're a bit more optimistic about their organization And how their organization is doing so it's kind of interesting to look at both how they're feeling Internally, but also externally So and I got a man up to you. I would have not I would have thought just the opposite Same same the opposite. I am fascinated by that. I mean actually I gotta say that makes me optimistic You know, I mean to have a thousand different You know Folks across organizations across the sector that is not what I expected for you to say And you know, that's uh, there's a common thread throughout this report, which is there's this Kind of juxtaposition or there's you know, we think one thing but what then reality it's on the flip side And so there's a little bit of this back and forth. I'm happening From that standpoint, so it is there's a few things where you're like, oh, that's not what I thought would Be the case. I gotta ask you your folks and and definitely what a pristine or pristine is not the right word, but a really High level group conducting this research Were they surprised by this? Yes, they were they were surprised by this there. There's a couple threads though to pull on Of surprises and some some you will say well, I've known that all along and we've been talking about that for ages Um in terms of surprises or no surprises one of the things um that I was really surprised about was that Less than half of the organization surveyed Had a written down fundraising plan What I mean, is that because of Is that because of like covid or is that just like that's an operational thing? I think it's an operational thing, right if you think about how Pressed for time we are Yeah, right You know, you're like, yeah, we gotta hit this number. I'm gonna go for it, right? And you just start doing your work, right and get getting the job done But less than half that was really surprising to me. So when I think about What is needed for strategic planning? Making sure that we have a good Journey defined of how we're gonna get to the outcomes for the organization. That was that was a shocker Yeah, you know, um Is part and parcel to that was that identified as a weakness or did they Did they understand that this is problematic or you know, how does how does that flow? Right. So great call out again. They recognize it. So a lot of the things where there's weaknesses Or hey, this isn't going so well. I don't feel so great about You know, this tactic or this approach, you know, how we're asking for donations in this capacity There's a then on the flip side how they're thinking about 2023. They know they want to address it, right? Um, so that's good that they you know, there's a recognition of these these certain things need to improve So that was one piece. I'm gonna just throw out another shocker for you. Okay I don't know if I can take it because I'm horrified of kind of like what I've heard already. Yeah, well We've got work to do with our board Oh boards board involvement. So uh respondents talks about 79 of the board Gave or donated participated in giving Okay, we go so not our boards aren't giving Now there's quite a few that are right So how do we set those expectations for them? So that's one piece Wow And it it's one thing to donate money from a board perspective, right board involvement participation It's another thing to be involved in fundraising activities. And this is the one that Really shocked me was less than half of the board Of of of our respondents said that their board was involved in fundraising activities attending a gala Making a mask Writing that thank you note that first time, you know, the thank you note to the donor making donor thank you calls their their board is not involved in fundraising activities So that's there's an opportunity for improvement there and the fundraiser is frustrated by that And that was a theme that came through was I need More support from a leadership perspective Okay, that I mean we need to have you on for a whole other episode just about that because um One of the things that we're seeing and I know you know this is that we are seeing more and more uh grant You know applications And just partnership structures coming through Pretty much saying if you don't have a hundred percent The national participation with your board We're not going to even look at you and it can be like one dollar a hundred dollars Whatever the amount is they're not even dictating what the amount is They're just saying we need to have a hundred percent financial participation if we're off by 20 percent That's frightening. Yeah, it's really impact and that that thread pulled through Um, and then when you look at the fundraising mix as well, that's um, there's some Really interesting pieces to unpack on us. So what is board involvement in leadership, right? I need I need stronger leadership There is this optimism sounds like maybe there's some leadership changes happening in a number of organizations Because that was one thing that they were optimistic and really excited about was The changes coming to their their staff or their leadership But definitely they've been disappointed with the involvement on that front And do you think that this I know I know this is hard to kind of balance all this But do you think that this is like a covet issue? Um, that oh well, you know, they couldn't do it or we weren't out or we were somewhat closed down Or do you just think that this has been a trajectory? for board leadership Without the pandemic that this has just been a behavior that we've kind of that we're dealing with Well, yeah, I I don't think it's necessarily related to covet I think it's more around setting expectations and again remember where these are small and mid-sized Profits so so most of the organization surveyed or more than half are, you know, under five million in fundraising revenue Right, so they're on the smaller side and sometimes How the the when when an organization is just getting started out, right? Who's on the board, right? It's your friends and family and other things which is great But it's also we need to set expectations Appropriately and you know, how how you start to look at and think about your board boards are there to help you Um, you know even on the on the corporate side, right? Ooh the the scary board meeting, right? Um, we want boards that help organizations thrive. That's what that's their role So we can all probably all do a better job asking our board looking at the skills and talents that our board brings to the table and say I wonder how I could use that a little bit better Yeah, you know, um So I would say that's kind of a hair and fire moment for me I'm I'm not surprised, but I'm pretty disappointed Because 20% is a big You know to get to 100% of board giving shoot that to move the needle 20% is Herculean What are some other things that you really noticed and Sounds like you could be easily shocked and have a hair and fire moment, too Okay, here's another one for you There's a real concern About the aging of the non-profits donor population Okay, yeah, okay. All right. So that's probably a lot of us are like, yeah, I have that concern too Now let's pair that with what's your fundraising mix? Well, how we're at what kind of asks are you making are you making more are you looking at How do we do more plan giving? conversations How do we look at the quests and legacy giving right? Um, those are those are flipped So we're not doing that. So it may be that If it's especially if it's a smaller organization that might not have a ton of experience there doing those types of things um We kind of we got to provide the resources and the support to you know, help those that have never done that before Help them do that Um, so that was really fascinating is just kind of how that is flipped from a standpoint That is a I love that you tagged this This aspect of the aging donor population To that other aspect because I think a lot of times we hear about concerns with an aging population and we immediately think Marketing and the digital connection Like oh, we still need to do in-person events. We still need to send The letter with the envelope, you know, we we can't Navigate a digital relationship with these things and that's just not enough going in the you know stopping there with that discussion Very interesting very interesting um Wow, okay, so then In relationship to that conversation Was there any um exploration of the digital component to this and people giving online and the frequency? I know this is like kind of a a question from la fiel, but it just Seems like it's a logical progression. Yeah. Yeah, so it's it's interesting So in 20 2022 it was no surprise like the primary way in which we were asking is through email appeals But then again on the flip side it was the least successful in their mind One When they also when you think about donors, there was some comment We we had some open-ended where they could put in their comments And there was a big theme around aging donors and then also then okay, we need to do a better job on major gifts I need to do a better job also asking the for younger donors um and and those Different platforms so there's a willingness to go experiment and they realize that they want to go experiment on those those new platforms peer to peer um Social media fundraising right those types of things so they're ready and they're going to put some additional energy into it Although this year it didn't perform to what they need. So there's a recognition of that Hey, this didn't go so well I'm going to put a little bit more energy into this channel or this technique of fundraising. So that's good As opposed to just abandoning it right recognizing that they can invest more. Yeah. Yeah So one thing now that I really want to call out because I I've talked about I think about this and talk about this from Um, when we were in covid Corporate giving okay, so it's about five percent of the overall You know if you look at fvp and giving us a it's about the big pie, right? It's about five percent, right? corporate giving in terms of um, the small and mid-sized nonprofits that we surveyed they're two times that amount that they go get money from corporations or they That as part of their mix I'm going to caution on that Because So in covid corporate giving pulled back right companies started to batten down the hatches and say we need to lower our expenses We need to tighten up. So we're going to be a little bit less generous They started to open up post I guess in 2021 they started to open up a little bit more Now with this recession and when you look at what's going on in the technology sector with big technology companies Are doing layoffs and things like that I would ask that you look hard at if you're pursuing a corporate giving Who are those organizations and what are they facing from an economic outlook if you can do the research And maybe rebalance your mix a little bit You know and that almost leads me back to the very first thing that you said the very first here on fire moment for me Was not having a fundraising plan um That might be somewhat of a shock to some of these organizations Who don't who haven't really thought forecasted or operate around That notion of what the percentage will be because and that sets you up for some pretty Catastrophic failure if you're like oh 50 percent of our you know Our fundraising is going to go through corporate partnerships when the reality is the national average Five seven if you're really really lucky, right, right? So that's again that some of these kind of competing thoughts or priorities of what we think versus what's really going on in the space that We do need to take a step back Also, you have to keep in mind too with small organization smaller organizations It's you know lean from a staffing one person Right one or two people and then also when they um Look at their fundraising mix. It's usually one or two kind of core veins of fundraising And so it's not surprising But I would just say if corporate giving or some what are some of these other areas take a good hard look I always like to talk about your fun. You just like yeah Um Fundraising mix just like you have an investment portfolio, right? Yes. I love that you said that Yeah, I love that you said that Okay, so we don't have much time left and I could spend hours with you on this and I do Think we need to have you back and maybe drill down on some even more specific things But what are the opportunities? I mean coming ahead looking forward Um That that people are actually optimistic to me that opens the door Towards opportunity. What are you seeing or what are your what are your thoughts on that? Right? um, so one yes Take a step back. I think give your give yourself some grace Give yourself a moment to think we we are so busy and so time Compressed I always talk about I say you gotta slow down to speed up And like that. Yeah, so making sure that we slow down Get that plan on a piece of paper And then you know, we can go faster. So that's one piece. I think the other piece that is lacking a little bit Okay, so we talked about the board involvement and leadership like executive director involvement and fundraising But as you think about your your organization and philanthropy as a core value And that was another piece that there was Only about half of the respondents said that philanthropy was like central to their core, you know to to one of their values, right? Yeah, um, I always talk about it's like it's people at the end of the day It's all about people, but it's you know, we power they power our missions through time and dollars Right Wow So I think It comes down to people it's relationships Making sure we have philanthropy that we're comfortable making the asker get more comfortable telling a story To make the ask so philanthropy has a core value And then I think we need to lean hard into our boards And our leadership team and set expectations and if we again take that time to make that plan Right and that I think we need to think about the strategy. What are the overarching themes? What are the overarching Directions we should be shifting if our donor population is aging We should be thinking about these things Having those those types of conversations and making the ask of our boards of our leadership team to help us a little bit more um, and I think the last the kind of the last two components of this is also there's a A reluctance to invest in fundraising from resources or dollars perspective So we need to make sure that we are It's strategically funding Fundraising right? How do I run a campaign or a program if I don't have any program dollars to Print whatever it is that I want to print um Those types of things so again back to that plan the plan is central culture is central Leadership is central to helping us hit these milestones. So it's You know making sure we've got dollars to run our programs because long term. I know it's we are trying to minimize expense, but Having the opportunity to invest a little bit in our fundraising programs You know, it's so interesting. Um, when you just we first started it seemed like so many of these topics are standalone topics And in 30 minutes, it's been riveting to see how they all are intertwined and so interdependent One begets the other. I mean it it really is something that to your point You've got to step back take a bigger picture and look at it and then You know move forward because wow lots to unpack before I let you go How are we going to be able to get this information? I mean, this is probably one of the first Public times you've been speaking about this When will this be available so that we can you know drill down more ourselves? Well, the team is active team at bloomering. We're actively digesting this report. It's uh right now It's a 36 pages and it's it's pretty in-depth intense. I mean julia. We could talk for hours about this So what I would say is go to bloomering.com and we have um, if you look on our top level nav There's a thing called uh resources articles. That's our blog sign up for our blog That's a great way one. We have lots of great articles You've done a lot of the topics. We just talked about but that'll be the best way if you're not familiar with bloomering sign up for our blog digest Um, and that way we'll keep you informed as to what's going on um, and when we publish a report You know, let's get you back on um, and I'm gonna publicly shame you into making a commitment Of course Yeah, let's get you back on to talk about that board component because I think that is uh an amazing opportunity But it's frightening to think that there's some uh problems with that because ultimately without the support of our boards We can't navigate forward the way we want to and felman. Wow a warrior woman. She's got a four-year-old She just traveled in from canada. She's in a major major epic snow storm You know, it's bad and when they name the snow storms Which I think they have I think that's new I think it is too. It's horrific. Um, but wow and then it's the holidays So you're a warrior my friend for coming on and really giving us a sneak peek It's really been fun and felman chief marketing officer for bloomering. Um, we love the bloomering product I know jaret ransom Loves it as well. She has worked with a lot of her clients in this uh with this technology and has nothing But amazing things to say about it. So Um, check out bloomering. It's a really interesting process And I do get your blog post your your communications I always learn something new and it's you're not just pushing your product. It's you're you're pushing our industry I think is what I how I would define it. So check out bloomerang's work. It really is something that I think you can Really help everyone really quickly. Um AFP icon coming up in 2023 New Orleans april 16th or 18th if I'm not mistaken, we're going to be broadcasting episodes of the nonprofit show from your booth Yes, we will be there. Julia. This has been fabulous. So thank you so much for the opportunity We're here to help all nonprofits thrive and appreciate the partnership Well, it's been a lot of fun. Uh, we will you'll hear more and more from us again I'm julia patrick. Jared ransom will be joining us back tomorrow Again, we want to thank all of our partners. Um, who are with us day in and day out on this journey Bloomerang american nonprofit academy your part-time controller be generous Fundraising academy at national university staffing boutique nonprofit thought leader and the nonprofit nerd And you've really got my mind just whirling. It's been really fun to have this time with you. Thank you Thank you. Have a great day. Hey everybody as we like to end every episode of the nonprofit show We want to leave you with this To stay well So you can do well. We'll see you back here tomorrow everyone and stay warm You too