 proposal so yep all right let's get started then yeah so good morning good evening good afternoon good night everyone so the agenda for today is just a brief reminder I'll cover now that we are not meeting next week on the 9th because many of us will be in Singapore and and so we're canceling that that meeting just a reminder again of the Lisbon hackfest I don't think there's any update on this I'll just cover this now to so you don't spend any time but the registration and agenda links are up for the Lisbon hackfest on December please register and add items to the agenda and again keep in mind that we're again we're sort of continuing the continuing the trend towards less yacking and more hacking and so ideas about how we can you know get started on various platforms or you know using some of the new tools and or you know ideas about how some of the projects can cross pollinate would be the best for that so this morning we have two project reports because we deferred sawtooth last week so Kelly will give us an update on sawtooth and Nikolai I believe is on for a Roja and and then we'll have the final review of the trend how to help of the training and education working group and then we'll put that to a vote if we don't have core and we'll put that to email and then if we have time we can revisit Hyperledger Cicero Dan has updated the proposal and send a note out early this morning and so we can take another another look at that any other items for the agenda if we have time but if there's anything pressing okay then I suggest we get started so Kelly if you're ready yeah sure can you all hear me I can okay great so Tom just posted a link to the updates in the chat so for those that want to follow along feel free to click on that but sawtooth had a has had a pretty successful period over the past couple quarters we've really been focusing on two main items which have been making sawtooth easier to use out of the box with some sample applications and support for Ethereum and then the second item is really focusing on API and platform stability so most recently we tagged a point eight nine release which is our stable release for sawtooth and right now the master branch is tagged as point nine which is where we'll be refining the API's ahead of our 1.0 release one of the things that we've done to help on the stability side of things is that we've kicked off long-running networks so we have three or actually four different long-running network environments we have three that run for a fixed defined amount of period one day seven day and 30 day and then we have something that we call long-running network zero which is basically our continuing continuous long-running network where we will actually manually intervene if we have some issues and that's really meant to help us evaluate how this can be used in production and how nodes and smart contracts and participates can be updated on the fly we have seen an increase in contributors from both some of the pre-existing companies that have been contributing as well as new independent contributors and there's been a pretty significant amount of features that have been added over the past quarter I think the first one which was talked about at the last hackathon is what we call Seth which is the ability to run Ethereum smart contracts on top of Hyperledger sawtooth the most recent progress there is that we have expanded to be a JSON RPC compatible with the existing Ethereum implementations which means that many of the existing interfaces for Ethereum can be mimicked on the sawtooth ledger as well we are moving forward to continue that integration by making it compatible with a lot of the existing tool chain so some of the IDEs like truffle or remix are next focus for compatibility we've also created a new repository called sawtooth supply chain which includes a smart contract as well as a graphical user interface we'll have this able to be launched as Docker and also has been submitted to Amazon to make easy one-click deploys on the performance side we have just declared sort of stability for what we call the parallel scheduler and what the parallel scheduler does is that enables smart contracts that have no dependencies on each other to be executed in parallel and we've seen some pretty significant improvements on the performance side versus the serial execution engine that was previously the standards and sawtooth another more experimental feature that we've been working with is what we call unplugable consensus and because sawtooth has the all of the sort of settings for the ledger stored on chain we're actually able to submit transactions to switch from one consensus mechanism to another and so this gives you the ability to either sort of start out in a development mode and move towards a more production worthy consensus mechanism or in the event that there are issues in the network to roll back into a more development and manage style system just a couple of other new features that I'll talk about briefly we do support a new concept called events and receipts this is essentially a web socket connection that enables you to export state information as it is updated to a traditional database or to clients to provide them with information about the success or failure of their transaction and we also have basically just finished out all of the permissioning that's going to be required for 1.0 and this includes things like REST API permissioning the interconnects between the validators and also some of the smart contract permissioning and then final items sawtooth is now available in its vanilla version in the Amazon marketplace and we have expanded our Docker options to make it easier to launch sawtooth for development purposes so as I said before right now JIRA is being actively maintained the items that we're most focused on are 1.0 which is primarily making sure APIs are stable and the platform is stable and that we continue to make sawtooth more product-like in that we have a sort of an out-of-the- box experience for many of the use cases there were a four different four new maintainers that were added over the since the last update we have Flying Tiger Darian Plumb Ryan Banks and Ann Shannett and we've continued to see good development on the contributor diversity so that is the items that I had for Hyperledger sawtooth project update but happy to answer any questions if there are any any questions comments so I've got a question about unplugable consensus I'm really curious about this feature so you mean that it is possible to change consensus after Genesis block after you declared your consensus in Genesis block is that correct yeah and that's correct so we saw a variety of the blockchain network settings actually as part of the state of the blockchain and one of those settings is the consensus mechanism so in the Genesis block there is a consensus mechanism that is set and then what you're able to do is actually submit to our settings smart contract a transaction that proposes a change and if that change you know meets the smart contract validation then that setting will change and all validators will then revert to using whatever new consensus was specified thank you I do see that there there was a question from Zippin in the chat about any works plan for privacy absolutely privacy is a ongoing research and development area for us the research on privacy is really taking sort of three separate paths as we as we look at the trade offs between each of those the first one is the the sort of separation of concerns model where only the appropriate you know transactions are sent to the appropriate parties with a model similar to the GFL style we've also been investigating the use of trusted hardware as a as one method and then we are doing some early research into some of the cryptographic techniques like zero-knowledge proofs Kelly just I'm curious on the on the diversity of contributions can you can you characterize you know what where where we are in terms of you know how much is Intel versus everybody else either from a contributor perspective or a contributions perspective I'm just curious to understand how it's evolving yeah that's a great question so I don't have any numbers here but I would say that you know Intel and bitwise makeup probably be the majority of contributors what we've seen is we've had some interaction with a number of startups that are starting to build on top of the hyper ledger soft tooth platform and they've a number of these startups while not listed here I do have contributions to make and so we're trying to work through the process with those folks to kind of get those additions and modifications they've made cleaned up to meet sort of all of the the processes that we have within within the soft tooth repository so I would say that you know it remains sort of two companies that are are responsible but we recently had red hat create a set of four transaction processors I'm sorry Wind River create a set of transaction processors that have been open source for supply chain bill of materials tracking and there's some current work with a some telecom companies who will be open sourcing some transaction processors as well and then I did see that that Hart can ask the question about zero knowledge proofs outside of SGX we do look at those two things as sort of parallel paths they could potentially be combined I would say in the short term we're looking at trusted execution environments as a a more performant way to do some of the the things that you would do is zero knowledge proofs but but we are looking at those both in and outside of a trusted execution environment Kelly one more question about that about the client interface that you have are you are you generating signatures from the validators for commits and other things or is it simply an API for notification yeah so it's so it's predominantly just a way to export both sort of state data as well as transaction data in a streaming manner to clients and and applications so there aren't any signatures on on that piece one of the other new features that that isn't included in here is something that we call the batch injector and that's actually a new feature where each of the validators can insert a batch right before the block is published that can be used for incentives and other things and so that does include some signatures there any other questions for Kelly all right thanks Kelly appreciate the update thank you next up is Nikolai to give us an update on the Roja and thanks for the link by the way I added a link at the top level project page this was one of those pages the project updates page was one of those hidden well hidden pages so you know at the link good Nikolai thanks yeah thanks that's Nikolai speaking I will roughly follow the same structure for the project updates in the weekend so the health as as it said is gradually becoming better as we're lowering our technical depth and increasing the number of features however currently the project has issues that we have delayed our alpha release as we haven't agreed on the contents for the alpha release between the stakeholders and also we had problems with scientific research related to proper design of the shared objects library that the clients can reuse and it took more time than we have expected so and also as we have been refactoring and restructuring the architecture starting in June we have increased our technical depth since that date and it greatly affected our velocity at the moment so now we are focusing on quality more than delivering features in order to eliminate the amount of depth that we have so that we can increase our velocity and proceed with the plan to deliver features and overall our activity includes the list that I have made for in the weekend so now Eroha has a role-based account role-based access control permission model also supports grant command we have implemented effective cryptography that means that we're validating payload signatures and signatures of blocks we have also developed our own consensus algorithm that is called yet another consensus we have a paradigm of having multiple components pluggable in the system and that's includes as well as consensus as and also transport and cryptography and storage yeah that's called yak so when we've been trying to implement Sumeragi we understood that if we want to implement some other algorithms in the future or make some improvements it's better to make it pluggable so we've also been working on improving the provisioning of the system so we have implemented Ansible provisioning and the swarm before Ansible we greatly improved the environment availability so that now Eroha can build can be built on ARM architecture and macOS some of the contributors have also made Python based CLI and we have made ours in C++ so overall we're expanding the number of commands and also we're tightly working now on the concept of smart contracts that are based on relational schema rather than on key value based one so we're having an intense research in that area and I hope we will come up with a good definition for smart contracts in the nearest future so as for current plans we're working now on eliminating technical depth and the delivering necessary functionality for the alpha release and that includes the update of SDKs for our mobile platforms as Eroha is known to be a mobile first so in order to be consistent with that we all we need to deliver those before the alpha is released eight new maintainers were added to the team primarily located in Russia in Naples and the list is in markdown file our contributors are more diverse than they were before so we are now in Japan and Russia several Japanese companies are helping us with as use case partners and this also includes National Bank of Cambodia so they are also testing Eroha capabilities on site and we had Ezekiel who is a hyperledger intern he's been working actively of on concept of anonymous transactions and right now he's working in Saramitsu and helps us as a maintainer in terms of cryptography and the same concept of anonymous transactions so I guess briefly that's it and you have a lot of questions and I'll be happy to answer you right now we're working also on the paper for yet another consensus it took more time than expected actually further is also here with us and maybe he can explain the situation but we've been working actively on architecture and system properly and that's why we didn't have enough time to write a good explanatory paper on yet another consensus so in we also have a good one on Sumeragi that Makoto-san already wrote are there any questions here I am yak in a way and I'm on mute okay so let me ask once again because I did this on mute do we have any other questions for Nikolai yeah this is Dave Fusby so have you decided whether you're going to include a smart contract platform for your one-point over this or are you going to implement the API that some of the other projects are going to do so that you can just borrow the existing smart contract stuff so we're really thrilled now with the possibility to develop new paradigm for smart contracts and we are looking forward to deliver this one in our one-point all release so it's the thing the thing is in development right now and we're really hoping to deliver this as a proof of concept in nearest future at least at the end of the year that but we don't know how to integrate the solution that we're having separately and our blockchain so it might take more time so we didn't agree on that as a maintainers team yet so I think I'll answer you maybe maybe tomorrow because this thing is relatively new and we have been discussing it since the start of the week actually and were you are you still committed to implementing your own smart contract language and execution virtual machine so yeah with the thing that this is a good solution however we have another opinion in the team so it's kind of controversial and we had already talked to you about this right so we're yes I was asking a probing question to for everybody else the answer yeah so this is kind of controversial and we have a lot of opinions on this and I think we need to come up with a good definition for our concept of smart contracts that are based on relational schema and maybe we can come up with a solution like a deterministic one or I don't know full it's your incomplete language that is all the main specific one so it's still in development this is Brian Melendorf what do you think the rest of the hyperledger community could do to help get the word out about the role and bring additional developers do it so for now it's there is one thrilling project that we want to explore more and how it interoperates with Rocha its name is Sello and we really want to explore how we can use it for provisioning of the system and yeah there is a draft of yak paper by the way and it's really roll so Sella can help us with provisioning at the moment and we need to explore how maybe Baro can help us with smart contracts if we will fail with our concept of relational schema for smart contracts I think the selling point is the fact that it is very strong in mobile which is not the case I believe with some of the others or am I wrong I mean you guys had right from the beginning focused on Android and and the other mobile operating systems yes so situation right now is that we are working on the architecture and the good restructure of components but we have actually forgotten to be mobile first and that is what we're going to work at the nearest future so to become mobile first once again so that's our current issue I think I was stressing Brian's point which was basically this would be a good hook for getting more people in involved if I recall correctly that at one point the the interface between the mobile clients and and your nodes was the same as the fabric rest API which had been deprecated and the move to gRPC is my memory correct and and is there are you looking at moving to gRPC as well or is there some other interoperability plans with fabric if it's not already there I'm not sure about fabric but our interoperability plans for now is to reuse our shared objects library than relying more on rest API rest API can be easily converted from protobuf and points but we want to get and see that the objects that we form on client side transactions queries are are preserving the invariant about having valid object and that's why we want to deliver this part of functionality in our shared objects library and as for fabric I guess we I don't discuss I haven't discussed this yet with our stakeholders so I need to talk more to Makota Sun and maybe you present this to technical steering committee at the next meeting sort of weigh in on the point that that Brian was also teasing at and that was you know what can we do to you know attract more developers to the platform and obviously you know if the development is primarily in Asia and Russia time zones that does present certain challenges obviously but again I think you know we should be looking at how can we you know raise awareness of what's going on a little bit more I don't know Brian if that's you know more blog posts or whatever but do think we do need to do a little bit more to elevate Iroha visibility that's my point yeah any other questions for Nikolai I mean it's not a question but just a continuing thought on that right you know I noticed that the the fabric in such as communities are very active in the mailing lists right and having discussions there about what's happening that could also help bring an alternative audience right an audience that may be not on the time saving time zones because if some of these design decisions and conversations are happening out there then other people can contribute to that and and have you know maybe get some interest from others to start contributing some of the around some of these ideas that the Aroha community has I see so maybe a good decision is to talk to Tracy more and develop a good strategy to communicate with a community like the policy for management we're definitely like I'll share a little bit about you know what I was encouraging the IBM team to do when they started down the path with fabric and that was just have the discussion in the mailing list or in Slack at the time even if nobody else is participating the conversation is out there in the open and people can and eventually will join in and they did and so sometimes you just need to actually just go up and do it so if you're gonna have a conversation about you know adding in a new feature or you know reducing the technical debt and figuring out what areas to focus on have that conversation on the public mailing list the you know the Aroha mailing list and and you know that traffic will be noticed people will start weighing in and and or offering to help and or just providing their two cents and eventually that leads to more people contributing so that would be one way of starting down that path so that's a good suggestion Tracy okay yeah thanks I guess this is the good starting point all right thank you very much I guess we couldn't then pardon me sneezed to the trading and education working group charter proposal or project working group sorry proposal so Todd we have a link to that and I think I had sent no Brian and I had a bit of a chat after last week's call to get a sense of you know what I was looking for and again I was really I was I was looking for something that just sort of said hey before we actually published something as a quote-unquote release that will make sure that we've gone through the process of reaching out to the relevant SMEs and so Brian added a paragraph and I think from my perspective I think my concerns have been resolved and I just I wanted to add certainly from my perspective elade yeah that that from my perspective I think this is an important area to invest in and certainly I plan on being one of the maintainers I would encourage others to join as well especially if you're one of the people that's working on as a maintainer or as a contributor to one of the other projects I think this is also a good opportunity where we start you know getting more cross-project interactions on a regular basis besides just you know weekly working group meetings this is going to be much more interactive where we're collaborating on content and so forth so I I do think this is an important thing that we should start start moving on so I would just sort of open it up and say are there any other concerns that had to be met that weren't covered this is Brian if I can just throw in one thing that's missing from this that we should expect from any proposal is the list of initial maintainers so if there's a sense that the charter is right then I'd like to you know with the TSC support for the charter then go around to the different projects and and individuals we know might be interested and say okay we're pretty much set do you want to join in as a maintainer so I don't think this is ready for approval by the TSC today my hope is that within the next you know two weeks and please my meeting next week we can put together a list of maintainers including Chris and and then come back for final approval of working group but but just a clear if there's a clear sign that this is right and that'll be helpful in that recruiting process do we want to do that or we want to just sort of approve this and and then work on the maintainers I just you know just in the sights of not having to bring this back again well I think that it is it's Marta I think it is important to have maintainers before TSC approves it to make sure that we have a quality set of maintainers really okay sure enough Marta um do we actually do we even have quorum Todd I forgot to ask so as far as I can tell we're one shy unless Greg or Jonathan have joined I think Jonathan's at yeah so I think we're one shy from quorum regardless actually Brian's at DEF CON too what's Jonathan's excuse it's a big conference okay well I guess then we we have I guess agreement on the the charter itself and I guess let's work on on getting some maintainers again I would encourage some of the leads especially from Roja and sawtooth and borough and Indy sign on to this and if you're interested and obviously yeah sorry Chris yeah if you're interested in you know being a maintainer please let me know and we'll make sure to get you add it to the list of people who are interested in this particular working group and being a maintainer for the output of the working group a question I would have to both Chris and Tracy and Brian is how much do we want also records from the community to ensure that we have more engagement from the community and not only from the usual suspects definitely Marta I think that you know it doesn't have to be just people who are part of the projects I think if there are people who training is their lifeblood and that's kind of their passion right then then they should definitely feel free to to reach out and say you know I'm interested in being in container of this group I don't have a problem with that I mean I sorry Brian go ahead I was gonna say one thought we I had was a supposed to a slightly wider audience you know to the general discussion mailing lists and a few other places to invite participation either as a maintainer or just you know when the working group has started you know invite people to the list of that working group anyways it sounds like I think we've got consensus support no it's not a vote but we'll come back and either do an email vote or in the call in two weeks yeah that sounds good all right thanks Tracy thanks Brian and I guess we have about 15 minutes left Dan maybe you could update us on Cicero I don't know if we're gonna get to a vote today because I know that we're the last week there was a lot of questions the paper wasn't published and people were interested in seeing some of the code and so forth manual that you've updated the proposal maybe the review for everybody what you've done from an update perspective and we can have a little bit of Q&A and then maybe we can have a vote in a couple weeks yeah thank you Todd hello everyone my name's Dan Salman so again apologies for not making the call last week where Hu-Man presented the proposal and you know all the comments that came back were you know very reasonable and we you know we were expecting them frankly you know so what I worked on this week is publishing the code and so you know the we moved the the very draft kind of reference implementation that we have out into a public get report so you guys can take a look at it and obviously we'd love you to do that and to give us comments and then we also published the draft of the what we're calling the accord protocol template specification and so that is also available as a public Google doc that that people can comment on the way that you know that we hope this is going to work is that the the accord project is going to work on the specification side of things and that's going to be very heavily driven and led by the legal community so you know most of the work in the accord project is going to be legal professionals looking at different types of legal contracts coming up with domain models for those contracts and deciding which clauses in those contracts are amenable to automation and execution and converting those contracts into you know what we call templates you know executable representations of those clauses and then the work that we would like to do in the hyper ledger community is to actually build the the reference implementation if you will of the stack that captures those executable artifacts as a as an archive as a zip and there's a description of that in the in the spec and then the you know a JavaScript centric runtime environment so that you can actually embed the execution of those templates into you know frankly whatever DLT comes next for you know whichever of these DLTs people end up wanting to use and you know our you know our our plan is to stay above the fray a little bit if you like in the DLT wars and try to be a good citizen and create a an execution component for you know executable smart legal contracts that you could embed into composer into fabric into Eroha into sawtooth into quarter into enterprise ethereum you know essentially as a as a reusable library so it's I think it's a challenging proposal because it really does truly combine the legal side of this problem you know engaging engaging with the law community through the accord projects and then engaging with the technical community where we would like to drive that work through hyperlegia and we've you know we've taken the conscious decision to to be very open and kind of start this process very early you know there's a lot more questions and answers right now and the reason we did that was that you know we didn't want to go dark for six months or a year and then deliver something that was kind of fixed and very product centric we wanted to engage the community and you know and build it in the open and hopefully build a very diverse set of contributors you know from across the kind of legal tech startup space but also involving you know legal law firms and their innovation departments I think there was also significant synergies with existing hyperlegia projects so we were using some technology that from the hyperlegia composer team in particular the the modeling language that was developed for composer but we've also had very interesting discussions with the indie team because obviously if you're doing contracting you need to have a very strong notion of identity for the the contracting parties and then when contracts are terminated you know hopefully successfully and those those contracts can can create additional claims right the you know I have a contract with Chris to deliver some widgets once the contract terminates you know Chris can can create a claim that he successfully delivered the widgets on time so there's a you know a very sort of wide range of quite exciting possibilities that that would be enabled by you know collaboration with things like indie but as I said we're also extremely interested in in working with all of the DLT projects to create a component that's that's easily embeddable you know and and to create that kind of legal smart contract fabric no pun intended across all the DLTs I'll shut up now and take questions Thanks Dan any questions comments? Hey Dan this has been so very interesting you mentioned JavaScript and you mentioned it's applicable to any DLT you also mentioned that it would be a library would you would you envision some kind of runtime environment that somehow got embedded into the DLT so that this execution environment would be somehow part of the DLT and be protected you know by the DLT construct? Yes um what we're trying to do is architect it so that you can run it in a whole bunch of different form factors you know ranging from kind of on an IoT device through you know a SaaS cloud service you know a centralized trusted cloud service through you know a distributed execution on a on a DLT so we you know we're cautiously optimistic that we can we can pull that off and using some of the newer you know JavaScript support across the platforms and then some of the web assembly stuff that's coming down the line I think that's feasible but yeah we we you know we we're definitely interested in you know you know we I've been following closely the node.js support that's coming in fabric and so that for example would be a you know a perfect vehicle to embed this runtime inside fabric Okay would you would you envision the smart contract here in terms of you know legals um should it be from from the DLT point of view uh should it be submit should it be submitted to the DLT as a transaction that contained in the contract logic in it in some way uh or it would be a um out of bent install because we we you know in in fabric we we've been debating this right and certainly we encounter use cases of both you know some people want to ship the code out as part of a transaction but because of confidentiality and other things people want to be able to control these things by direct deployment to the members who are required to execute the smart contract but not to general populations for example yes and um you know I'll level with you I think frankly we don't we don't know the right answer yet and I suspect there are there is no single right answer so we're going to try to support a variety of scenarios uh there definitely are legitimate scenarios where people want to execute their contracts off-chain the data is coming from on the chain into the contract and then the side effects of executing the contract need to go back onto the chain but the contract itself um you know for for privacy reasons probably needs to execute off-chain but but there are also other use cases where um it's probably fine and it's desirable to run the the contract on chain itself right okay thank you I hey yeah magnet system sorry um just a couple of questions this is my um just a couple of questions about kind of the the current status of things and I made some comments on the proposal about um you know like the Accord project looks at least the information we have there's really thin and you mentioned um giving kind of an update what what is the status of Accord, Cicero, and the rest of these right now um are we uh are is this a wrapper for sort of experimental code is it a transition of code that's kind of prototype to something that we need to harden um where where are you at in that process so I think Hooman is on he's probably best place to do the status on the the Accord project and then I can take up the technical items Hooman are you there sure uh yes hello everybody this is Hooman I hope you can hear me yep okay yeah the Accord projects status is uh great we're moving we're moving along in terms of forming partnerships and adding memberships to sort of generally and to the specific working groups we recently for example just formed partnerships with the University College of London Center for Blockchain Technology which itself is a quite a vast resource both technical and sort of business and general blockchain expertise similar with blockchain at Berkeley out there in the west coast we're doing a lot of great things from their side of things as well as we're we're in pretty final stage discussions with organizations such as IEEE the trusted internet of things alliance and so forth so that is really establishing the broad strategic vision in terms of what the specific use cases and types of contracts we are focusing on as well as organizing various attorneys in specific areas like supply chain and so forth we're also talking to groups at MIT I just spoke there at a round table a couple weeks ago or was it just last week with their Center for Transportation and Logistics so that's basically where the Accord project is going is really building this knowledge base of legal expertise that will feed into the Accord protocol specification when it comes to the templating the grammar the data structures that are more elaborated in specification that was just released today yeah thank you so you can you know for the for the technologists that's essentially the source of requirements right the most of the the the legal requirements are going to come to this to the project through the the Accord project that's you know it's 80 90 percent illegal discussion it's lawyers sitting around looking at supply chain contracts and deciding what language can be standardized in a supply chain chain contract what are the semantics of execution of a supply chain contract what's the right data model for a supply chain contract and then capturing that in an artifact that that is executable frankly and then on the hyper ledger side you know we're gonna we're gonna supply the shovels if you like right we're gonna we're gonna provide some some SDKs and some implementations of those specifications so that once those Accord project working groups capture the knowledge we can actually deploy it into a DLT environment or a non-DLT environment you know and they can start executing it and and we rinse them with repeat effectively so that that you know that that's the that's the strategy does that help yeah sorry sorry I have two mute buttons I gotta go through yeah I mean it it I will say it just it feels very early yeah sorry it feels really early on this and and I'm still having kind of a hard time getting my head wrapped around what the coding part of this project is at times when I and by the way I've you know we've we've looked at some of the contracting languages and some of the other things that have been done at different levels and formal verification and things so I'm at least a little bit familiar with with the kind of things that are happening there but how do you do you position this as kind of an orchestration as a validation would and and I'm specifically talking about the technology side of things I'm at the other half of it I kind of I kind of got so probably that maybe the thing you need to do is is to just quickly describe what the code does that we've open sourced because that's a very concrete thing you can you know it's not a vision statement right you can actually go look at the code and you know you'll see what I'm talking about so the code that we've open sourced right now it is sort of an it's a it's a very early draft kind of work in progress implementation of the accord template specification so it allows somebody to take a piece of legal text punch some holes in it to parameterize it and then the code that we've open sourced generates a grammar for that legal text quite a sophisticated grammar that allows you to create instances of that template you know as as plain text and then there is a you know a fairly simple no.js based VM which can execute those clauses against input data and return results so there you know today with the open source code you can create you can create a you know a smart clause from a a piece of legal text parameterize it and then execute it against input data and return output data that's essentially what was open source so far thank you you know this is going to be a very you know it's going to be an iterative process obviously but the that level of functionality allows the different vertical working groups within the accord project to start capturing that that domain knowledge and the domain knowledge comes in two main flavors one is the the data models about a domain and then one is the you know the legal language about a domain and the the core template specification brings those two things together you know in a single artifact and then it combines it with a you know some some business logic that that the engine can actually run um are you going to try to make the execution environments um have the same apis that the other smart contract engines have so that it can participate as a pluggable component in the hyperledger community i'd be very open to that i'm not i'm not familiar with those apis yes but i will i'll go do some homework and and get up to speed i think you know we have a bit of a challenge there because there isn't a common sort of singular api to a smart contract maybe yeah thanks christ i was going to say there there is no consensus on that just yet pun intended um also uh how i might show how ignorant okay i can ask a question on email yeah um so we're we're out of time and uh in respect to everybody's calendars um i think we'll end the call now so those of you who want to read up a little bit more about the core and so forth i suggest we take this discussion to the mailing list since we aren't meeting next week and uh and then we'll vote on it again on the 16th so thanks again dan and everybody for the conversation and um see many of you or some of you at the the uh the summit in um singapore next week uh and the rest of you will talk to you in a couple of weeks so thanks thank you thank you yeah thanks everyone have a good day