 Okay, so my name is Sandy Baird and I welcome people to this discussion on this beautiful evening and I'm so happy that people are taking the time to listen to this discussion. And our South Burlington City Councilor Megan Emery, who serves on the board of South Burlington, she's also Professor of French at UVM and she has a lot to say. I guess, and also are you up for election in the fall or when does this, no, okay. I was just reelected in March. Okay, well congratulations to you I'm sure that are you delighted about that it must be. Yeah, yeah, I enjoy it right. Well, it's good. Meaningful work. Yes, yes, that's true and we all have looked for meaningful work. Okay, so I entitled this, what we know what we don't know or this is what we know and how about the airport expansion. I don't think many people do know much about it I'm welcoming Jimmy least has been studying this for a long time and others who are very curious about what the airport is doing. And that's why we asked Megan and sort of like a report of what's happening in South Burlington and how it will affect all of our lives, including in Burlington so Megan take it away what's going on and again this is the the city council from South Burlington who's Megan Emery. Okay, go ahead Megan. So what is happening. Thank you Sandy and I had said to you earlier that it was a good title for the segment what is what is happening at the airport. And the reason for that is because when we had received the rezoning request and the airport. Where do you get these requests where do they come from. Well the airport director had approached the city of South Burlington last year. And came forward with a request for rezoning 11 acres of the approximately. Was it 44 acres of land that the city had acquired through the home acquisition program. And the director asked for 11 of those acres to be rezoned from residential. And can I ask you what happened to the homes. Yes, the airport has a noise profile. And since before my time on the city council, the noise produced by aircraft, you know at use of the airport have has been used as a, as a, as a, you know, kind of a baseline in order to determine what our compatible uses of the land surrounding the airport and the the current noise configuration that is considered to be incompatible is 65 dnl which is a 24 hour average. We had homes prior to my arrival in city council in 2008 that fell within that 65 dnl line. And beginning with my, my original term on the city council I saw homes that added up to over well over 150 that were taken down and taken down. It was quite a shock and that was through the noise mitigation program that our airport and Burlington City Council had selected for their noise mitigation. And so they they purchased the homes using FAA funds these funds come from fees that we as air travelers pay to to airports it's it's like a federal tax that goes to the FAA FAA uses those funds to purchase homes demolish them and relocate the the residents. It's not a taking because why isn't it the notion that it's voluntary. Ah, really. Wow, is it voluntary. This is of course something that is a very sticky sticky topic here in South Burlington. Because when you see, you know, the, the picture in front of you where you have neighbors who are leaving, you do not know what will become of your house value. Many people felt compelled to sell to the airport. Many people did not, and they felt that federal government had intruded on their lives and so we still do have homes within that 65 dnl contour. So when we, you know, receive this request, the planning commission, which is our, our body that deliberates on, you know, what the zoning should be among other development and land use questions. They formed a subcommittee and the the homes that had originally been on those 11 acres had long been gone, but directly across the street from those 11 acres, there were still homes, and homes with I would say populations that are considered to to be federally protected populations for socioeconomic reasons. What does that mean that they were, what does it mean. Well, many are immigrants. Some are new Americans. They are also not in the highest income bracket. And so the federal government sees those, you know, groups of individuals to to deserve some kind of protection. And we had very articulate members of the public, including one woman who owns with her family, at least one of those buildings, perhaps more who is a landlord and rents apartments there and she made a very strong case. To keep not only the houses, but the quality of life and to not intrude further by increasing airport operations outside of the current fence line. So they wanted to expand outside of the current fence line along airport Parkway, which for those of you who aren't familiar with South Burlington, if you wish to get to St. Or, or to Essex you can go down White Street turn left on to airport Parkway which will take you to line kiln. If you turn left if you turn right you get to go to the air base and then to our we have additional residential housing back there in addition to a road heading to Wilston. So that is the road that they, they wish to expand upon. So they made this request. The airport made this request to your planning commission. That's right. It goes through our planning staff, and the planning staff works with an appointed body they're an advisory body to the city council, and a group of seven, seven members. And they thought that it was important for this to be vetted by a subcommittee of residents, which I thought was was quite astute of them. And I think that what I have since I got on the council in 2008 have, I think been on the receiving end of a lot of decisions. And as a city council, we have vigorously advocated to have a larger voice in the discussions regarding those master plans regarding in addition to the master plans. And also the mitigation programs, especially when it has a direct impact on our, on our residents on our tax base. Of course, our tax base took hit when, you know, nearly 200 homes were taken down. Okay, so this was the, again, the removal of more homes. And this would not have involved the, the, no, this would not have but the concern was, is that by allowing more airport, but active airport uses so they wanted to have hangers there for private aviation. They were talking about snow equipment removal. It came through that the Burlington tech center was interested perhaps and relocating there. And that would, that would need more noise that would need more traffic people would need to come with their cars to park to get into work or to get into use their aircraft. And these are generally members of the public who park, just like, you know, park and ride. Park your car, and then you get in your airplane, your private airplane. Wow, really. Yeah. I'm a prime location for a lot of people. And all of that traffic would increase, of course, the noise envelope. And whether that would figure into the FAA, you know, calculations regarding, you know, whether that envelope would expand and more homes would be would be impacted but as it turns out the homes that are currently there are within the envelope. So it is, these are people who have voluntary, voluntarily decided to stay. They stay, they want to stay, in other words. Right. That's right. Well, you know, where else do they go. Yeah, exactly. This is our most affordable neighborhood. Right, you're saying that it that it is an affordable neighborhood, right. Well, we're struggling, we're all struggling to, you know, what is affordable mean these days, right. That's another more than one hour discussion all together. Right, exactly. So what happened. So what happened was, we had three options, right. We could allow it. We could say no, we don't allow it, or we could do something else, right. And so the something else at one point we were considering let the, the planning commission as they were now we're going through our comprehensive plan. So that the basic vision of our community that is the basis for all of our land use to, you know, plans that they could at that point determine how to use the 11 acres that the airport was requesting at that time. Or we could say we'll grant you so much, you know, but not any more than this or within these parameters or limitations. And we decided as a committee was we were going to explore all three. But I am my own, having been contacted by people in the general aviation community, I went and did some, some, some just research, I looked into why there was a crunch for land, especially knowing that on the other side of the airport so that's Williston Road or root right. That is where a lot of those buildings, you know, are, and, and normally should be. It's just, it seems to be also an area where there's more land, if we actually look at it and so having talked with people I learned that there was opportunity for and that that land is empty or does that have houses. Also, though there are now that this is our airport industrial. So on the airport parkway side so that's the side where the airport was seeking to expand its airport where these uses are allowed. All right, but we have a specific a stipulation and our land use regulations that it has to be compatible with our residential neighborhood which is adjacent right abutting it. On the other side, we have airport industrial with a little bit more manufacturing uses allowed, and then across the street we have an industrial uses as well so there's no, there's no residential building on the other side which is what we call the general aviation side. And this is a part that I also wanted us to address because it's a very, I would say, you know, best kept secret of the airport this general aviation side, where we have the tech center, we have the Vermont technical college we have the aviation school of aviation and it's it's an amazing asset and provides a real value to the people here of the state and to the region by training pilots by training airport and air, sorry, airplane mechanics. And of course now that we have beta there. They're seeking to have an a campus that would include education and Why don't you say what beta is. Well, beta that was that is definitely been in the news. Beta is is a startup that has already employed hundreds of people seeking to expand developing electric vehicles aircraft. And primarily now for for delivering, you know, not people but but merchandise right so they have with Amazon and UPS contracts already that they that they are, you know, looking to to make good on I believe I don't, don't need to to beta plans just yet but I know that they definitely have received funds in order to develop merchandise delivery system right not people only merchandise that that is kind of their, I would say kind of stroke of genius that they're not the only company in the United States to be working on electric aircraft, but they are the first to focus primarily on merchandise as opposed to people, which has fewer hurdles to cross in order for it to to get off the ground, so to speak, because of course people are you have you have many higher safety hurdles to cross right so they There's really a campus over there of all these. Yes, there, there is a big manufacturing facility that has finally been cleared through our development review board. There was now, let's see, I'm trying to think maybe nine months ago, maybe a little less. Yeah, maybe seven, eight months ago. There was real concern within the general aviation. So that's the Burlington Technical Center, Vermont Tech College, etc, etc, where beta was basically going to be taking up all of the remaining land, they were wanting to build an 18,000 square foot. manufacturing building. And, and so, going there I went there in March, I believe, maybe February as well. I got on the ground and I looked and I saw what they needed and I actually connected Burlington Tech Center with the Burlington School District, so that I mean, with beta and the Burlington School District with beta they could perhaps find a way for their building needs to be met there on that campus in a way where those students, you know we're talking about hundreds of students who have excellent career opportunities when they come out of the the Burlington Tech Center they can some of them take it for college credit, they can move directly into being an, you know, pilot or a mechanic or, you know, they go into the military or, and they have a really vibrant campus there. And so I really saw that as a gem and a lost opportunity, and I would say a lack of planning that would have perhaps led to our board to prove this this change of zoning and then to have Burlington Tech Center move to the opposite end of the airfield. So, the research panned out the research panned out, I was able to connect people who needed to be connected. In order to find I would say a better just partnership. And, and, you know, these connections were not being made under the previous airport director, which I was that Jean Richard. That was, that was Jean Richard. He is long gone. I don't know exactly I think he was suing but I haven't heard any updates about that. But since since Nick Longo has taken up the acting directorship. The plans are proceeding I've been reading up on that and seven days and and the T digger. And, you know, they might have a wing of betas new manufacturing facility, which is a wonderful, I think, partnership for for these young people. And for this new, you know, hopefully successful startup. And that would also, I think, create more room for the other existing entities there to to expand or to renovate. So it's a, for now, it's it seems to to mean that our neighborhood here on the other side, which is the west side of the airfield can enjoy, you know, the current views of the mountains and and we're going to hopefully see the plans that our own citizens committee put together the Chamberlain neighborhood airport planning committee back in 2018 issued some recommendations for bike trails and paths with benches and viewing areas because that's a beautiful view of the field. It's it's just a beautiful view of the mountains there. And, and the acting director Nick Longo said that that was something he would, he would be interested in, in, you know, seeing move forward so the problem then that you, your zoning, what did you have to consider I mean they what did the airport want. They wanted to use that prime location for for viewing and for just kind of a park like area where residents walk their dogs. They wanted to, they wanted to rezone it for a more industrial purpose, they wanted wanted to rezone that idyllic area, right, for industrial purposes, right, right. They wanted to put up hangers those. Okay, so what happened. So we said no, because I came back with the information, saying that there, there seems to be kind of a lost opportunity on the other side of the airport for these entities to be able to, you know, really develop that campus in a coherent way where they're coordinating with one another, and where everybody would like to be, I think, close to to beta right we have this aviation school that again, students get college credit it's an amazing program, compared to other programs in the United States students in half the time receive higher credentials in order to become airline pilots. It's it's an amazing program. What are enrollments like our romance. They are under 100 for that specific aviation school I know that the Burlington tech center has over 360 students, and that's kind of the whole tech center but with regard to the aviation I'm not quite sure on the numbers. Yeah, but but it's a going concern in other words and it would be apt to grow correct you think. Well, if, if, which no there's interest if there's interest and if there's the need which currently there is is a big need apparently right right I mean everybody's being stuck right. I mean we're in changing times this is where we're definitely and you know that was another concern that our committee heard is that we are in climate crisis. Is this the time for the airport to be expanding all these private jets. And talk, talk about that what do you mean private jets on the part of people who can afford private jets is that what you're talking about. Well, people can afford private jets, not everybody. But some people can, and they'd rather be in Burlington than in another airfield right or in Rutland or up in Swanton or in Montpelier here. And so there is a waitlist for getting a parking spot just like if you had a, you know, a boat and Lake Champlain, you'd probably right be seeking to get as close to Burlington as possible. Right. And so we're, I think that because we're attractive. We're a victim of our own success and in some ways we're also benefiting from that success. So but with the climate crisis that was that was an argument is that something that we are invested into the detriment of affordable housing to have these people park at our airport and and be able to How does that affect affordable housing. Well, the concern was that having those hangers just abutting residential residential properties. I think that it would, where's the end right if we were to rezone that land to accommodate some of those, some of those pilots, and these are private people, you know, these are citizens like you and me, although I certainly don't have a private But I do know people who do that they, you know, why, why would that stop there. Why would it not continue and so to turn it into a real hub. Whereas it should be a residential neighborhood. So what happened. Well, we said no, and, and it went back to the planning commission and they had a meeting. They heard our, we had co chairs report on what we had decided and why. Longo the acting airport director was there as well. And he said he accepted, he accepted the no, and that he wanted to really honor that that planning document this the snap see Chamberlain neighborhood planning committee back in 2018 came out with recommendations for bike trails and benches and more park like, you know amenities there. So he wanted to honor that and move forward with that that one building. The FAA had agreed could go within the the fence. Perhaps it's for snow removal equipment I haven't been able to find that out. But everything else that was really putting pressure on that side of the airport has been able to be, I think, satisfied on the other side which is the more industrial side. So what happened road happened with this plan then at this point. So he, I just was on the airport's website today it's still the 2021 plan so I have not seen the new, the new draft, but that one will, at least that part of it those 11 acres will not be moving forward. And you said and did you receive any citizens input about that. Yes, we've received a petition. The resident landlord, I actually Adam says her name, and a group of citizens went door to door they collected over 200 signatures. We also had majority of people speak at the meetings against the, the request for the rezoning of the land. I only heard one resident when I was going door to door campaigning last February, speak in favor of it. And the others who spoke in favor it were the private aviation folks who were really, you know, concerned that with beta's plans to expand they squeezed out, and it seems that with more coordinated planning. Just attention to to what needs to be there and what makes sense and what actually, I think enhances what is a real asset to our state and to our region there that those needs have been satisfied so far so. I think it should be, I think, seen as a real positive outcome that, again, South Burlington's planning processes made possible. And so it all the more reason to include South Burlington in the airport planning processes. But South Burlington is or is not usually considered. We have had to really, really wrestle for that, that right and looking at home with Burlington. Well, yeah, and with the airport director. Over the years, they're there, you know, it's like checking a box. We put together a committee. They didn't really have a voice they didn't really, you know, speak up in a way that could alter the plans because the plans had already been determined by the experts, according to members of this technical advisory committee that came into being after a resolution that I put together and the city council approved in 2017 to the FAA saying, Dear FAA, South Burlington needs to have a voice in this planning processes and FAA said just as and I pointed to the federal committee and the FAA said, you know what, airport, you have to include South Burlington and so they developed this committee. And I had mixed results. I would say that the citizens who took part in that committee felt that they were, you know, they're simply to provide legitimacy to plans that they were not able to really influence one way or the other. So who is the main is Burlington, the city of Burlington, they own the airport, right? City of Burlington on the airport. And so over the years has the role then of South Burlington been diminished by that ownership by the city of Burlington. And this has has been sort of a fight between, I wouldn't say that but sort of an adversarial contest between South Burlington and Burlington. I would say since the home buyout plan started in 2007. A year before I got on the city council, until the FAA stepped in and said airport, you need to include South Burlington so that was in 2017 2018. And over a span of nearly a decade. It was, it was pretty tense. Yeah, it was pretty tense that was when the city of Burlington and the airport were suing the city of South Burlington about what about property taxes. And it was, yeah, it was a very tense time. And I, you know, it remains to be seen there's now a search going for the new airport director and truly who is in that position will will determine, you know, the, I would say, how healthy that relationship remains I would say that since 2018. And paid to South Burlington but I would say also that our, our council and our citizens have become empowered to speak up and to really, you know, use the powers that we have at our disposal which are zoning powers. So that that is a new, you know, a new chapter in the relationship. And it remains to be seen. You know how this will this will develop over the years but I, I feel very strongly that it's, it's going to be critical that this neighborhood remain and thrive, you know, to South Burlington's future. We have a school here. It's needed. It's, we can't tear down a school. We have our city center, you know, just a block away. It makes no sense for this airport to to be raised our AZ ED and be replaced, you know, by mega airport, especially when air travel, unless you know something occurs that I don't foresee. You know, expect air travel to remain over the next century. What do you mean at the current levels you mean. Right, right. What about the military. We have no say over the military. Sandy. But if I could, if I could remake the world. We, we would have, you know, a different mission here at this airport and we hear all of the refugees coming out of Ukraine. Speak about you know just seeing people in military garb and how traumatic it is and we have the same refugee population living in neighborhoods and when you ski and in South Burlington. There are planes and again the trauma is real that. And I find that this is not the appropriate place for for F 35s or even for the previous f 16s with their enhanced engines. Before we get there. So what are other other plans for expansion that citizens of this region should be aware of. The airport still has on its plan the desire to have an additional, they call it 14 and exit 14 and so that road along the west side of the airfield what we call airport Parkway would be an airport road that would go directly into the interstate. That is their desire. I don't foresee that happening in my lifetime. They, why did they want that. It would just provide an exit that is, you know, specific to the airport, so that airport, you know, if you go into a major airport. You'll see that there are highway, you know, exits that are directly for the airport, right, and that's what they wanted. I haven't gotten that yet. No, we are prioritizing other exits through our regional planning commission. So, definitely exit 14, which is in South Burlington, it's between Burlington and South Burlington is it is the first one that needs to have some attention. And I think that the results are coming out this summer 12 be your exit 13 are being centered. Okay, so then let's get back to the f 35 military do does the military play any role in any of the plans to expand. The military, you know, having visited the general aviation side. I'm sorry, you're muted. I don't know what happened. Can you hear me. I can't hear. I can hear you. I can hear you. Can you hear you to think you're muted, Megan. No, I think it's your computer. I can hear Megan. What happens. I don't know how to correct this. Okay. Sandy, can you hear me. No. I don't know why something happened. I'm going to try to call Jenna. Well, yes, I can you hear any of anyone else. I'm trying to call Sandy. I'm right here. Yeah, okay. Yeah. I can't hear anything, but. Speaker phone she can hear through your phone. So I just talk or what. Yeah. I can hear you. Megan, I have her on speaker phone. Hopefully that will work. Okay. And we won't get feedback in some weird way. You go ahead. She should be able to charge you. So should I stay on the phone or what? Yes. Anyway. Okay. Comment on then on the military. Yeah. I think it's important for us to understand that the military is, is really. Valued at the airport. I don't see. That they will go at they, they not only have a base, but they travel in and out of the FBO, which is at heritage aviation. And they are also, I think. You know, you know, seen at the aviation school as well. So the, you know, the aviation Academy. So it's, it's, it's, they are a fixture. And I think, you know, I think it was 1984. When Senator Leahy turned the air guard. I gave it a combat mission. That for pilots. You know, and for pilots and mechanics to, to see these technological wonders, which are military jets take off that there, there is a real attraction there. So we definitely have, you know, a cultural conflict between that culture at the airport and, and then a segment of our population. That does not feel that this is conducive to, to a good life for them. As we know, we've seen incredible efforts. And Jimmy Lee says here online. I know that he's made an incredible effort to underscore how the noise impacts the health and well-being. Of people. And again, going door to door as someone who was campaigning last winter, our people were in tears talking to me about the impacts on their lives. And their health. So. This is not the place. I understand why the draws there. And it's, it's really, it's an incompatible relationship. Can that divorce occur? I don't know. We're just in a very incompatible relationship for many of us. And do you think that the military will want to expand also and have more. Presence. At the airport. So if you're talking about Vermont's air guard and the guard. I think, yes, they would like to, if you're talking about the U S Air Force, they don't have any skin in the game other than protecting the assets that are already here. So. I think, yes, I think the guard has a strong presence in our state. And I am not anti military. I, I think that. We as a state have been supportive of the guard and rightly so. We have members who have gone into combat and. To serve our thanks. For truly being willing to put their lives on the line. For, for, you know, I would say some benefits, but, but certainly. Well-deserved benefits. Very, you know, it's something we do have to, you know, Honor. And at the same time, do we need to have these. Machines. That have a tremendous impact on the well-being of residents in our midst. And that's, that's a different question. And I understand that Vermont is not a wealthy state. You know, I have friends in Arkansas. We've had conversations about, you know, what the options are for so-called, you know, poor states. I see the military to be a dead end. I certainly not an economic develop. Development tool. We know that healthcare and education. There have been many studies. Our, our, our more conducive to economic development. And so I, I think that anybody to claim that the, the base is here. As an economic driver that, that is a nice little sound bite. That doesn't have a lot of substance to it. Do they have heritage and history here? Yes. And, and so that is something that we can certainly. Honor. But we are, we are impacting. You know, I have students at UVM who roll their eyes when the 35s take off. You know, it's. This, this is, this has an impact. And UVM is safely tucked away. It's certainly not adjacent or under the flight path. But it, it first, for the students there, it's, it's a. You know, it's, it's an inconvenience. So it's. Yeah. I mean, I, I, if I, again, if I could make the world. The better place I would like it to be, there would, there would not be a 35 slang in and out of. Burlington international airport. Okay. Well, how about any questions or thoughts for Megan? From our audience, I noticed that Jimmy lease is, is, are you raising your hand, Jimmy? Yes, I'd like to go ahead. So I think that the best way to on. Honor the Vermont Air National Guard is to make them. Follow their own rules. You know, if you play a sport, you have to follow the rules. You're not. Just because people think you're a great athlete doesn't mean you can just want only do anything you want. There are rules for every sport. And you must follow them if you want to play. And I don't think the air guard is doing that with their own military regulations. You don't intermingle military. This is. This is. Military 101. This is the first thing you learn is to protect. The civilian population. You don't just go in and blast the civilians. So they have five rules. They're called the laws of war. Or international humanitarian war. No intermingling of military forces with populated areas. It's called distinction. And the reason is. That, you know, if there's going to be combat. Those civilians are legitimately targeted. If military forces are intermingled with them. That's what's happening in Ukraine right now. And the U.S. is saying, oh, the Russians are violating the laws of war. Well, right here in Vermont. The Vermont Air National Guard is violated. The laws of war as far as honor. You don't have honor. If you're hurting civilians, you're an outlaw organization. They know that there's huge impact on the civilian population. They're doing it knowingly. They're doing it willingly. Intentionally. If they want to practice with their F. 35 jets and have a base, they must do it remote from populated areas under their own rules. So now this is a state agency. This isn't the federal government doing it. It's the state of Vermont. That runs the training of the National Guard. It's not just in Vermont that the state of Vermont. The, the training of the National Guard. It's not just in Vermont that the state is in control of the training of its own National Guard. Every state. The training is. It's come, you know, interestingly, this is something that the founders established in the Constitution. That the. They divided up the powers. And among the powers was. The federal government. Controls the arming of the National Guard, but the states conduct the training of the National Guard. So when the federal government decided. Arming that's basing, you know, to bring the jets here. That was a federal decision. But now to conduct to the training, the daily training, a few hundred times a month. And when we're going to have these flights of the F 35. It's totally under the state. So the state. If the city of South Burlington, I just conclude by saying, if the city of South Burlington was determined and understood what the rules were. And made itself. And extended this victory that we just had over the expansion and center right now, let's learn some more. Let's get together with a new ski with South with Burlington with Williston. Let's push the state to stop this in a city. The problem is that they're in a densely populated area. And that has to stop so that. So that the public is not terrified and heard. And so that the military conforms to its own regulations. Okay, Megan. Do you have any response to that? I would say that we, if we had had a jury trial, as opposed to a judge determining the outcome of a number of lawsuits over the F 35, we probably would have had. A different, a different scenario. Okay. So wait a minute. Can I ask you, there were lawsuits about this, correct? Oh, seven. Two. Two. Okay. Go ahead, Megan. Yeah. And what was the outcome? Not only here, but right. And well, they, the outcome was that we have no say over the, the federal government's decision to base the jets here was the outcome with a judge as opposed to a jury. But what I wanted to add in addition to that is that thanks to people like Jimmy, and I hope I am including myself and people will include myself in this. People speaking up and not giving up. And I think that will eventually, you know, mean that people will prevail over machines. And so we cannot feel hopeless. We cannot feel that, you know, no matter what we do, it's hopeless because we have already, I would say, held the line in, in more ways than one. And it's because we've just flexed our muscle. And we have to make it work for democracy and we have to make it work for us. And that means, you know, an effort on our part. And so I think that Jimmy is an example of just never giving up and never taking no, you know, for an answer. And because I agree with Jimmy, this, this is. This should not be happening. This is wrong. And I think that. That there are other. There was a debate last night. And one of the purveyors of the F 35 who's running for the US Senate, and Peter Welch. He was one of the big supporters who foisted it on us, even though there was a vote in Burlington to abolish or to cancel the F 35. And he did not have even one word of positivity towards the F 35. When he was asked about it. First he ducked the question, then the second time he was asked about it. He diverted to how wonderful the guard is for its terrific COVID response, which was true, but it just showed that he has nothing good to say about it. Nobody in power is wanting to. Toute their support for the F 35 anymore. So this is a, this is really now low hanging fruit. We just have to work and continue to persist and organize and have events and have victories. And I think it won't be forever. It'll, we will win on this. And I think it's, I mean, if they can't, if they can't say anything positive. So I think it's really, really important to work with. With Senator Leahy, he no longer talks about it as a positive. As good for them. For anybody. But, but this Jimmy, is anybody asking that question of them anymore. Or are people. I know they're a group of activists who continue to ask that question. But are they asking it of Patrick Leahy or Peter Welch or questions? Well it did come up yesterday after the debate and so I think the questions are being asked but it is but I think underneath I think people as as Megan said people are they may be they may be suffering but they feel helpless about it they feel that there's nothing I do I do they feel and and this is a this is the this is how this is how these terrible things we had we had we have had a long history of horrors in this country going back to slavery and and it's because people at some point they finally say would determine if we've had enough and then we get union organizing or we get mass demonstration of of women like we had a week ago um and um it's somehow things do come together eventually and I think that's what's going to happen here as people um as people get fed up with it because it is a horror and well for the last few months it hasn't been as bad because eight of the planes were sent to Europe yes so we've had some relative peace and quiet and we but when they come back it's going to be uh the nightmare is going to resume and I so hopefully at that point we can do something and I think that one of the great things is that we have some city counselors like Megan yeah really care about this issue and want to do something about it and um and I think through our leadership our elected leadership we can do we can really make it uh make some impact and and develop um more confidence in the public that we can go start to this right are there other questions are there other questions or thoughts but Jane Jane yeah yeah yeah hi sorry I was muted I wanted to know how the what the state what on the state level how has this like the house on armed services committee how what do they have a role and um how do they deal with the military with the military and how how what state laws are there about the about the about the about the about the about the about the guard and are they enforced well I I am probably not the person to answer this question but yes they have committees on both this in both the state senate and and the house um it's housing military in general affairs I believe um and the military definitely has a presence in Montpelier especially when there are questions pertaining to the military um and so for instance there was a bill um in the house it got through the senate I believe one or two years ago um that was um banning uh nuclear weapons carriers in the state which the F-35 is and it has not yet gotten out of committee and it depends on who the committee chair is so uh representative Tom Stevens who I believe is a Burlington representative is the chair of that committee and he is the person who needs to be persuaded in order to have that bill taken off the wall as they say it's pinned on a wall and if they're going to move it into the chamber of the house it has to come off the wall of the committee and be passed um so that right now there there is um there is not a law that would uh Jimmy's gonna probably have something to say but um that would stop them from from doing those flights I will add you know speaking with neighbors again today um they live closer to the airport I'm four blocks away and and they're just two blocks away that with uh the pilots and the jets off in Europe those who remain um are flying very according to the people who are most impacted I would say you know not as intrusively so there is a way to to land um which is just straight down onto the airfield as opposed to doing you know these maneuvers over the airfield which um they had initially said they would not do but they are they are doing but now that several jets and pilots are are no longer here um they are they're not doing the maneuvers so there is a question about rules um that isn't necessarily the state law but rules that we should definitely revisit I think as a community I believe that Lucy is that your hand up Lucy yep that's my hand up go ahead next yeah I just I really want to appreciate this um thank you Sandy for putting this together and Megan so much for all of your great work over the years and I really it's really helpful to just have somebody um who's fought for a while and just says this is wrong we we know it's wrong I've obviously been and not involved lately but involved in the past with fighting the F-35s you know living in the old north end of Burlington we get we get a blast of it but I always feel so um disturbed for especially my neighbors in UNISC who are suffering the families that suffer there and I know your your neighbors there Megan in south Burlington but um thanks to you for your good work and Jimmy for all your great work and um I you know I'm still here and ready to fight and I I think we don't give up we keep fighting that's all I wanted to say that's good thank you that's helpful we have uh Jane Jane and then Jimmy yeah um yeah this is actually a a United States wide issue there are several states that I mean that have the same problem as we do and and if the states that band together I think that with that I think the federal I mean I think this is a federal issue I mean issue I think um more I mean that has to be dealt with I think on the federal level and I think the states have to get have to band together to get to to to get the to get better to get better well so on a federal level to um un-noised mitigation because it's it's it's it's going to continue and the states because we met they make up the United States I would have I think but have but have but have the power I mean I can foresee even a constitutional convention I mean to be able to in any ways possible I don't know but anyways okay yeah right well there are countries where airports have been moved I I know that the Munich airport moved out of the city uh specifically because of the impacts of noise on on the health of the residents around that airport um and if this country and I you know if could be done at the federal level of course now we know through the Supreme Court decision the EPA can't simply say that the the legislature our congress has to say it um but if we get there that would be something but people good people need to run and then people need to vote for good people that's okay I think we're kind of almost out of time did jimmy did you have your hand up no I would just say that also airports here have closed we had one in Brooklyn New York it closed um we had one it's called Stapleton the airport in Denver that closed now we have a new airport 10 miles outside the city so I think that if South Burlington put uh said no to everything the airport wanted uh then they'd find a way to move outside the city um so I think and and I think that we did say no to this airport expansion when we just say we just say we may just make it really hard for them and um and then they'll they'll leave but also the uh the Air National Guard you know they have an air base that was designed as an air base right across the lake it's only uh less than two miles away why not use that why do they they're specifically purposely and intentionally hurting civilians that's what's going on here okay I I believe we're out of time tonight and thank you all it was great having you Megan and all the people jimmy congratulations always on your great work on this issue and and many other issues I do have a question but I think we should explore that the next time is with all this not this stuff about climate change why does nobody think about criticizing the f-35s for being responsible for for climate change and the military I would think that that was the biggest cause of climate change is the military war and instruments like the f-35 I don't honestly get it I think you might want to thank you all for being here particularly Megan jimmy but all of you also for keeping in touch with this very important issue next week I'm discussing further the demise of roe v wade and it'll be like a community discussion so please join us then thank you