 Now to ask about your podcasts. I know some of them in the second season They'll be about the civil rights movement in particular the the 1950s, which are somewhat neglected time I'll throw out just a few possible forces that led America to start to become more integrated in the 50s And you tell me which you think are neglected or underrated one would be professional sports and Jackie Robinson starting to play baseball in the late 40s and other would be entertainers and move toward having more black Leads and movies and also music say Chuck Barry or even James Brown Harry Truman integrating the military or the desire for purposes of Cold War propaganda to actually show This country is making some progress on civil rights issues. I mean, which of those are which other factors? Do you feel are the ones we're missing and understanding this history? I Would put army if I to rank those army one, okay? I Would I would and I would say that the entertainment and sports I Would I would say that that had it was either neutral or worse than neutral Why worse than neutral because I don't think I actually think if you if we would take the long view And we would look at this from a hundred years from now we would say that the fact that that So it is not unusual for minorities to first make their mark in sports entertainment, right? We see that every see it with Jews you see it with Italians. You see it with, you know Irish But my thing the thing that's striking to me about Those movements is they move in and out of those worlds pretty quickly So the Jewish moment in sports is really quite short I Just back not that surprising boxing especially It's like that long the African-american moment in those transitional fields is really long it continues to this day And it's almost to the point where you feel like that what happens is they move into those worlds and get stalled there And their presence in that world Accentuates and aggravates existing prejudice about their About their community as opposed to Serving as a kind of Waystation to a better place so if your problem is that you're facing a series of Stereotypes about how you are intellectually inferior How you have a kind of broken culture? How you have you know like a go on and on and on with all of the stereotypes that exist then why is being playing? How does playing brutally violent sports? Help you Right, how is an association an almost an over-representation in These these these various kinds of public entertainments Advance your cause I So I I I kind of I'm for those areas when those those things when they're transitional and I'm against them when they're they seem like dead ends