 American citizens must have an equal right to vote. Administration of elections is primarily state and local responsibility. Are you voted for the very first time or waited in line for a very long time? By the way, we have to fix that. Hi, welcome to High Turn Up White Margin. This is Brianna Lennon. I am the County Clerk from Green County, Missouri, and with me is my co-host, Eric Faye, Director of Elections in St. Louis County, Missouri. And we are really excited to talk to you today about our podcast, which is High Turn Up White Margin, but also how we've been trying to use it to fight misinformation with the nuts and bolts of elections administration over this past year. So at the end of last year, as we were going through the end of the 2020 election and election officials were feeling borne down and starved for contact other than Zoom meetings because we're used to having these really good conferences where we can share all this information, we can share best practices, and we can actually misery on what we've been going through. All of these news articles have been coming out about how much pressure we had all been under, how many people were leaving the profession, how we were going to help bring new people in. And yet at the same time, we hadn't really created a space in the digital world to try to share any of that information or talk about things that you can do in your own office to help make your job easier or more efficient or what's happening in neighboring states that you might benefit from if you brought it into your own jurisdiction. And so we thought about the idea of, well, maybe this information does exist. Maybe it's just out there in the podcast form. There's a lot of people that put up how to ask, but it turns out there really wasn't anybody. And the reaction was extremely positive and optimistic that it would be very beneficial if we did do that. And so we kind of took that and ran with it. And at the end of December and beginning of January, we launched our first episode. So why are we doing this? Well, education community and we're nerds. Brianna has even made a high turnout, wide margin swag. And I think one of them says I'm an election nerd, right? Something like that. Yeah. So it's, I think, I think we said in our first episode, it's for all these reasons, but it's also for kind of selfish reasons that, you know, we just want to talk to people we're interested in, we want to learn from them. I think as I might have mentioned, you know, in election administration, we really like to employ the case method, copy and steal everything. So the more we can learn from each other, the more we can copy and steal from each other and use because unlike private industry, in election administration, we're not competing with each other. We, you know, to the extent that other people succeed, you know, we succeed, it makes the whole community of election administrators better when more people are succeeding and doing new things and innovative things. So the podcast, I think, at least for me and for us has achieved that largely and we hope to continue doing it. And I think Brianna has some great audio clips as we move through this presentation just to kind of illustrate some of these points. So when we started this, were we expecting that all of this was going to be, you know, educational, community oriented? I mean, maybe we weren't really sure what we were getting into. It's been extremely fun and very educational, but not always exactly what we expected it to be. But what have we learned since we started doing it? What in that narrative is absolutely everything? I mean, I think it'd be very interesting just to go through all of the logistics and that this is what's involved. And we have, you know, two part-time people, you know, who have to go through all of this mail and we have to sort all this mail. We have to check the voter registration list and look at this voter registration list. And this is how it works. I think people love those stories. And I think, you know, quite frankly, because of all the misinformation and all the terrible, terrible, terrible attacks against election officials, you know, non-partisan election officials, I think it's important that you really have to come out and tell your story. This is who we are. You know, we are public servants. We are the people who are trying to make democracy work. So Pam Fessler, who just recently retired from NPR, was one of our more recent guests, but she really illustrated a point we've heard over and over again, especially when we're talking about trying to combat disinformation, trying to get good information out there, continuing to be trusted sources of information as the election office or our respective jurisdictions. And that's that, you know, it doesn't cut it to just say, here's where the voter registration deadline is. Here's how you request an absentee ballot. I mean, you really do need to tell the story of the office. It's something that we've taken very literally. And in some ways, it's been a very meta thing that we are telling these stories through this podcast and hopefully helping to further that narrative for other people that need to be able to share this information and do it in a way that's compelling enough that people don't just tune it out and say, you know, I know how to vote, I know when to register, but there's nothing that's really pulling them into why it's still important that we do what we do and why it's important that they can feel that their ballot is being counted, that everything is safe and secure and that elections are being run with integrity and with security. I think it's also important to point out that election administrators by and large are not media hounds. You know, I think a lot of election administrators are used to kind of toiling in anonymity. They appreciate whatever, you know, little recognition they might give from time to time, but usually they're on the news around election time, trying to get out that kind of basic information and then, you know, they go behind the scenes after that. But what 2020 showed everybody was that whether election administrators like it or not, they're going to be thrust into the spotlight. And to the point that Breanna just made, Pam Fessler was very strident in her belief that election administrators need to really try to tell their story and make it compelling. So that was a really great takeaway, I think, from that. We also, I mean, we knew this as election authorities, but it really it really became crystal clear as we were talking to more local election authorities, how much this whole process and this whole field runs on community. And as Eric was saying, this is an extremely collaborative field. It is not one where, you know, we're trying to forward information from each other. We're trying to be like the best one. Everybody is working on a common goal. We're all trying to serve our voters in the best way that we can. And so it really becomes this kind of family oriented group. And if you think about everything that we went through in 2020 and all of the different stresses that we had just as people, not just as election authorities, it's very hard to not be able to have that kind of camaraderie. And so we've learned just how important that is it to the profession itself, not just to ourselves, but to the profession itself. It's just fun to get around and chat. There's just something about when you eat or drink together, and you're just you're just letting your guard down a little bit. Or formalities go away, you talk to whoever you want. It really is. I used to think that that was waste of time. Now I think that's more important than showing up to the meeting times. And that's Ricky Hatch from Weaver County, Utah. Ricky is and on the executive board of IGO, the International Association of Government Officials. He also is very active in NACO, National Association of Counties. And as you saw, he just made the point that collaborating and just kind of sharing stories is a big part of election administration. And I would, I would agree with him. And I think many election administrators would that just kind of having that camaraderie and being able to share stories is is valuable. And, you know, making what you do a little bit better just to learn what other people are doing. But it's also kind of cathartic in that just it's just like I think in many professions that you really you can't understand it unless you're in it. And so for election administrators, being able to talk to each other and and share those stories. And our podcast is I think just a little a little part of that. But also being together at conferences and things makes a big difference. So that's, I think we hope our podcast is kind of filling up a little bit of that void, especially while people couldn't really go to conferences. And but even even when things, you know, go back to some more in person things, we hope to keep it going because I think it still fills a need amongst election administrators. We've also learned, which is not as positive, but definitely something that I feel like we've all felt is that the field is simultaneously energized and demoralized. We've probably talked to an equal number of people that feel like, you know, wow, this is really our time to shine. We have this opportunity to teach people about how elections are being administered, to really tie into the fact that more people than ever paying attention to how elections are being run. And that's really wonderful. But at the same time, many of our colleagues are getting threats issued at them and are feeling pressured, not just from their own voters, but voters from other jurisdictions, people from all across the country, if they're being targeted in certain states and things like that. And it makes it incredibly hard, especially like how Eric said, a lot of us work in the background, where you never thought that this was going to be a job that thrust you into the spotlight and made you a target in a lot of ways. So there are people that have really looked at that and said, well, this is an opportunity. And then there's people that are leaving the field because it's that difficult right now. And it's just not worth it when you think about all of the tasks and responsibilities that our offices have. Not all of us are just election authorities. There's lots of other things that our offices have to do. And in a lot of places, elections are actually a very small part of the job. So if you think about people that are trying to do 50 things for their county, just to keep the lights on and payroll happening and elections taking up more and more of their time and their energy, it's just not it's just not sustainable. And details matter. I mean, the people out here who know me and hear that said, oh, well, that's Paul's mantra, you know, that's that's what I've always heard Paul talk about. And that's what I would say to anybody wanting to get in this job and get in the and once you're in it to understand the details, you know, and I know plenty of folks who've gotten into the job in a partisan manner who understand after they're in there, well, you know, I'm serving everybody. And I really have to tone down my partisanship. And I think that, you know, I think if they do that, they'll find, you know, that the job is very rewarding, that you're serving your voters. It's very difficult right now under these circumstances that people are attacking, you know, election officials for one thing or the other. You have to have thick skin. But I think if you keep your honesty, your integrity and professionalism, you'll do a great job. And more than ever, we really need good people in these jobs. And we have during the course of this podcast, we've talked to several election administrators that were thrust into the spotlight. Last year, you know, I think of people like Tina Barton from Michigan and Al Schmidt from Philadelphia. Joseph Kirk from Georgia. And what Paul just said, there was a common thread in what all those folks said to us that, you know, they came under intense scrutiny last year, but they were very proud of what they had done. They all felt that that they had conducted themselves in a professional and manner with integrity. And that, you know, they were certainly frustrated and maybe a little downtrodden from the way they were treated in some cases, but they were proud of their staffs. They were proud of their poll workers. And they were proud of all the work that they had put in. And that at the end of the day, you know, after the recounts and audits, which, which they had all done on their own volition, you know, proved out that at least in their cases that the 2020, the November 2020 election was, was very accurate and very honest. So I, again, I just think having those conversations with people that had been through some of the worst of it last year, you know, reinforced how important it is to, to stick around in this, in this profession and, and to find more good people to do it. And that, for some people, you certainly can blame them for, for looking to other career paths and a number of people are doing that. But I still think there are a lot of good folks around that are going to keep doing it for years to come. And I think these are the lessons that we're trying to impart. You know, this is not, we didn't start this podcast thinking we would have widespread appeal. I mean, this is a podcast that we designed for other election officials. And so with our takeaways, we're hoping that other election officials have very similar takeaways and are at least feeling like they're a that they're not alone, but be that there is still energy in the field. There are still things that we have that we're doing very well and that there's a lot of people in our corner. And having that sense of pride is something that is not unique to any particular local election authority. I think everybody has that. It's one of the things that draws people in. One of the big things that we learned when we're going through all of these is we always ask people how they ended up in elections in the first place. So the first question we always ask is, you know, did you did you come into this intentionally? Did you fall into it? And, you know, 99% of the people never plan to be local election authorities. There was something that happened that either landed them there, like a part-time position that they decided they just fell in love with, or they were working in another field. And then this position happened to open up. And so they ended up working there and realized how much they loved it. But everybody that we've talked to, it really draws you in. And like Eric said, it makes you want to stick around. And it helps when you know that other people are all working towards that same goal too. So what do we do? I mean, we're here presenting at DEF CON not to just talk about how funded it is to be an election official, but also to talk about, you know, we've had this terrible dismiss information campaign that has been going on all throughout 2020 that's continuing on through 2021. And we're looking at going into 2022 and what are we going to do? And hopefully in one way, putting all this information out there and demystifying some of local election administration and just talking to the people and humanizing them is one way to combat that. But the other thing we can do is collaborate. You know, it's something that we naturally do anyway. But what we've seen over this past year has also been huge collaboration between industry, academics, people that had not necessarily all been in the same room and asking the same questions and trying to reach the same goals are now having all of these synthesizing meetings and discussions and conferences to try to get everybody on the same page because we're all fighting now the same enemy, which is disinformation. It's also really important. One of the things that we talked about with a lot of our guests is filling the space with that narrative. I mean, narrative is one of the ways that you can do that. But at this particular time, I mean, it's 2021, there's not a ton of elections that are happening. There are a lot of places that have local elections and things like that, but it's not a November 2020 general election. It's not something that's on the top of everybody's mind that they have to go vote, they have to pick who they want to represent them. This is the time where we as local election authorities can do that collaboration, work on planning out for 2022 and start trying to be proactive and not just reactive. I mean, that's something that came through a lot too is as we're preparing for future elections, we can do as much preparation as we want. I mean, that's in our DNA is to make sure that we are 100% planned with all sorts of redundancies in case something happens in the election. But we're not always great at predicting exactly what that common enemy is going to be at any given election. So you can follow that trajectory, you know, 2016 out of that came cybersecurity efforts. We started working on cybersecurity efforts. We thought that's what it was going to be in 2018 2020. And we were all prepared for that. We've done fantastic work and federal governments and fantastic work and DEF CON has done fantastic work in furthering that cybersecurity. But then here comes this whole disinformation campaign that really ended up filling the entire space. And we need to take some of that back. We need to start reclaiming that for the trustworthy and accurate and honest information so that that's what voters hear. I hope if nothing else, you know, what comes out of everything has transpired since last November's election, that at least people who have good intentions, once they learn that elections aren't being run by the Venezuelan government, they will actually start to learn about some of the nuts and bolts of election administration. And as Pam Fessler mentioned, if we can tell our story or if people, other people can help to tell our story, that, you know, at least some people in the media, in academia and things like that start to understand some of the challenges and other things that we have. You know, I think one, another thing Pam Fessler mentioned that was very interesting that when she, you know, back in the early 2000s, when she would kind of cover the voting beat, the election administration beat, she might be the only reporter there at a national association on secretaries of state meeting or something like that. And now there are, you know, dozens sometimes. So I like to, you know, think there's a silver lining to all this. So if there's a silver lining to this, I hope maybe that's what it is, that especially some folks in the media are really starting to learn how elections are run, because it's an ever-evolving field, like Brianna was just saying that, you know, we had, as election administrators, really had a bone up on cybersecurity and start to take that more seriously after the 2016 elections. And now, mis and dis and mal information are things that are in the vocabulary of all election administrators. And that's something I think we're going to get better at as the time goes on. And finally, I think listening is still incredibly important. I mean, we can talk all day about how local election authorities talk to each other and we collaborate, but it's also important to listen to our voters. It's important to listen to our own stakeholders, because at the end of the day, we are a public service-oriented administration. So, you know, we make sure that everything is ready for election day. We make sure that everything is prepared for being able to cast ballots and all of that. But we have to listen to our voters about what they have concerns about, what they have questions about, and not be defensive when somebody does try to get us to explain more of the process. Part of, I think, being a very administrative field is that we're not used to being asked a lot of questions about how things work, and it can be taken in a defensive way. And so listening and trying to, you know, really take to heart that voters deserve to have that information, and we can put that information out there, and it's actually beneficial to everybody. It's beneficial to us, too. It helps combat some of that bad information out there. It's something that's really important that, hopefully, as more local election authorities are thinking about what they can do moving into 2022, wanting feedback and listening to that feedback is one of those things. I hope that's another good thing that comes out of the post-election mess that 2020 was, that election administrators become a little more open to how things are presented to the public and how the public can come and see what they do. As Brianna just mentioned, you know, election administrators, by and large, they weren't used to a lot of people coming to their office and wanting to see this and understand, you know, how do you process the ballots? What happens here? I mean, it used to be years ago we would shout from the rooftops. This is, you know, what we do. This is how things work. Nobody cared. Nobody was interesting coming to the election office and watching ballots be processed or audits take place. They were still taking place. It was all being done but, you know, very few people cared. So, now that it's come to the forefront that, you know, party challengers, the media, whoever, they may want to be a part of this process. Hopefully, election administrators find a way to make them part of the process and how they show how their jobs are done and then it leads to, again, more understanding. Last, we just wanted to thank everyone for listening and for allowing us to speak at DefCon. If you are interested in listening to the podcast, it's on any podcast distributor. So, whichever your favorite one is, it will be on there and we're also on Twitter. But you can also always reach out to us and ask any questions. One of the things that also has come to light is how much local election officials really don't mind talking to people that want to know more about it. I mean, it has not been hard for us to find guests necessarily because everybody wants to talk about what they do. And we are very appreciative to everybody that has been a guest on the show and really appreciate their sharing their experience and their information.