 Turning now to our conversation, Jewel Gingrich-Longenecker leads the AMBS Church Leadership Center as Dean of Lifelong Learning. The Church Leadership Center offers non-degree programs for church leaders. In her role, Jewel collaborates with AMBS faculty, denominational leaders, conference staff, and congregational leaders to help provide a rich array of resources for leadership development. Her PhD studies focused on the importance of deep careful study of scripture in congregations led by well-prepared teachers. Before coming to AMBS as Associate Dean in 2001, Jewel was a conference youth minister, high school campus pastor, and teacher. Jewel will start by answering several questions I have for her, and after that, we'll have time for your questions and comments, and you can submit those using the Q&A feature at any time during the webinar. Jewel, thank you for joining us, and I invite you to start by telling us about yourself. What would you like folks to know besides what I've already read as an introduction? Thank you. So fun to see the names of all the people coming in here on the chat. Great to be together. Well, I live in South Bend, Indiana about 25 minutes from here with my husband Fred. We attend Kern Road Mennonite Church, and there I am very actively involved with our young adult group, and I also serve as the chair of the Gift Assertment Committee and have a variety of involvement. So love our church, I'm really glad to be a part of it. My husband Fred is a part-time seminary student, and also a mental health recovery coach at Oakland Psychiatric Center here. We have two kids, they're grown now, Janae and Jayce, they're young adults. I've loved every stage of parenting, I love this stage, it's super fun to have young adult kids. Janae is finishing law school at Notre Dame. She's married to a great guy named Vince Kurtz, and Jayce is working in Denver, and he's living with several college students and his Bernie's Mountain Dog puppy who I happen to also love. I've been working at AMBS for over 20 years. I began as Associate Dean for Leadership Education in 2001, and then in 2014, the title was changed to Dean of Lifelong Learning, and that was to reflect growing commitment, I would say from AMBS to the Lifelong Learning curriculum of the seminary. So the importance of having our graduate programs and also these Lifelong Learning options in place in an ongoing way. So I don't know, you may already know some of this, but I'm just going to refresh your memory to say that our Lifelong Learning programs include pre-seminary programs, post-seminary continuing education, and then what I would call co-curricular options for students that are currently in seminary. So we have pre-seminary programs, the Journey Mission Leadership Program, which is for people in ministry roles, variety of kinds of ministry roles and congregations, lay ministries and pastoral ministry, who may or may not have formal theological or other higher education. Then also another example of pre-seminary courses could be short courses, our online versions of courses that are offered in full length in the seminary context, but as short courses they don't involve grades or papers or other kinds of commitments of that nature. They're just really discussion based, but they're at the graduate level of conversation. Then we also have Invite AMBS, which is really a coordinated opportunity to bring AMBS faculty and staff and other employees to your setting, and have them do short teaching assignments or consultations. Increasingly, we're doing those both in person and on Zoom. So those are just examples of you don't need a degree to appreciate some of those things. Some of what I would call the continuing education elements of the lifelong learning programs would be like the spiritual direction seminars, where we do want you to have a seminary degree, and then if you want to add a skill set of spiritual direction to your ministry, you can do our spiritual direction program, which has three years of learning opportunities. Our transition to leadership program, which is for new pastors who are just out of seminary in their first three or four years out of seminary and in their first pastorate. In that program, you have a mentor and seminary faculty and staff who walk alongside groups of folks who are also new in ministry and have the opportunity to really care for each other and support each other and help each other through that transition. We also have something now called ministry integrity circles, which are for experienced pastors who are facing various kinds of transitions. Again, they gather with peers, with faculty and staff, and have a guided peer group process. I should say that the feedback we're getting on these is that they're extremely helpful and in many ways, life-saving for ministry at this very challenging, difficult time for the church. Lifelong learning at AMBS, like I said, also has co-curricular dimensions. We have current seminary students who will occasionally take a short course or a leadership clinic often they'll participate in pastors and leaders, which is coming up this year as pastors and leaders and deep faith, February 21 and hoping that all of you are signed up and if you aren't, we'd love to have you still sign up. We're offering that online and in person. We also offer workshops and webinars throughout the year and I'd say these last three things I'm naming really serve the whole set of people. They can be pre-seminary, post-seminary, or during seminary. That's why we call it lifelong learning because there's always opportunities for skill-building, theological learning, inspiration along the way. I would just say that I sense that AMBS is just increasingly committed to keeping this making this an important part of what we do. My work personally has changed so much since 2001 and in many ways, it's a different job than it was before. Yet I think of the basic purpose of it as very much the same to connect leaders and emerging leaders with the resources of the seminary. The work is constantly changing because the landscape of ministry is constantly changing. The life of the church is constantly changing. I am never ever bored ever. I love my work. I love my coworkers. I love being able to meet and learn to know leaders, emerging leaders. I love being able to stay connected with you folks as alumni. It's a privilege to be here. Thanks, Joel. You have so many different programs going on. It's great to have just a glimpse into the overview of those and then later on, we'll have a chance for you to describe things you're working on, especially this year right now. I'm wondering if you can tell us a story about a time when you experienced God in a powerful way. Yeah. I so often feel that God is companioning me in my life and in my work. I have felt the powerful presence of God throughout this whole journey of being here at AMBS and planning, programming, and all of that kind of thing. But in terms of a particularly powerful way, I just say that in recent years, I've discovered the power of silence. I've found that being still and doing absolutely nothing for 30 minutes or so at a time is incredibly grounding for me. I'm not technically meditating. I'm not even trying to think of a particular word. I'm just still. This has been so important to me in recent years, helping me to have a sense of connection to God and also just that knowledge that it's a reliable thing. I can count on it. I can develop that groundedness when I am feeling afraid. Which I often have and I just find that. Although it's not a one-time thing, it's a very powerful thing in my life. So thank you. What a great testimony. And I often think that as we go grow older, silence becomes more and more important to us. So that's what attracted you to be part of the AMBS community coming back as an alum yourself. This is a long time ago now that you've been here. What made you say I want to come work at AMBS? Well, when I was a student here, I was so excited about everything I was learning. And I just kept wondering why I hadn't heard about these kinds of things before. The theological, the biblical spiritual pastoral wisdom that just was kind of spilling out from all of my professors. They were just a wealth of wisdom and knowledge. And I had a very strong sense that the church desperately needed the things that I was learning. And so I wanted a much wider segment of the church to have direct access to at least some of what was going on here. And I'd say that that deep desire really hasn't changed. It was very much present when I decided to come to work here. It was like, well, maybe I can help help to open those doors, create more pathways into and out of the seminary for more people in the church. Often as I talk to young adults now, I hear what I would call a desperate need. And maybe not a conscious need, but a desperate need for in-dub theological and pastoral and biblical and spiritual wisdom and knowledge. I was just reminded as I was thinking about this, that often as I talk to young or that just not too long ago, I had a conversation with a young guy who told me that he was disillusioned with the church because of the things that the church teaches. And so I asked him for some specifics. And I learned that on his list, there were a lot of things that were truly problematic and also things that most of the churches that I'm familiar with don't actually teach. So I said, well, that's not what I believe. Like, where are you getting that stuff? That's actually bad theology in my humble opinion. And he says, well, it's everywhere. Bad theology is everywhere. Good theology is hard to find. And I said, oh, yeah, I hear you. Good theology is hard to find. And boy, do I have a place for you to study. Like, I think you could actually engage with theology that you would feel good about at the seminary where I work. And I came back to ABS the next day and I said, I have a new tagline for AMBOs and new marketing tagline. Anabaptist Mennonite Biblical Seminary because good theology is hard to find. I haven't convinced everybody here that that's the right tagline, but it's fun to think about it. So I would just say that what attracted me to work here was the incredible importance of the work of theological and pastoral education. Thanks, and I love your tagline. This is the first I've heard it. So let's... It's been talking to you, Janine. With all of the different parts of the Church Leadership Center that you are overseeing and managing, I'm wondering what are some of the projects you're working on this year right now over the last fall, the last few months? What are some of the things you're most excited about or things that might be coming up in the future for the Church Leadership Center? Yeah. Well, in addition to all the programs that I named, and I should say that they are running smoothly and doing amazing things, thanks to the excellent work of the faculty who serve as teachers and instructors and consultants in those programs. And thanks to the staff, the Church Leadership Center staff, Dave Norton, Julia Schmidt, Cheryl Zaire, our volunteers, Ed and Gabe Kaufman, Chialis Twan. They're all so crucial in keeping those programs running so that I can actually now also share with you some other things I'm working on. And so one of the things that's coming up that we're working on hard is a demon proposal that has now been submitted to our accrediting agency, the Association of Theological Schools. And we've submitted a petition and it is hopefully in the works. We are hoping to focus that program on Anabaptist Leadership. It's a competency-based program giving a lot of flexibility for leaders to grow and increase their effectiveness in terms of their leadership for the challenges that they face. It's designed for people in professional leadership roles who wanna increase their capacity. And we'll hear more about that after the Board of Commissioners meets in April. But if you're interested, stay tuned and apply when you see the notices. So that's something that is very exciting that I'm working on. Also, I'm working with Joe Sawatski of the Mennonite Mission Network, along with David Bushhart and Bev Lap to work at developing contextually appropriate programming for various global settings to deliver Anabaptist Theological Education in collaboration with local church leaders, local denominational leaders. I'm in conversations with folks at this time from India, from Indonesia, from Kenya, from Uganda, from Southeast Asia. And that's in addition to the master's level programming that you probably are all aware of that we're doing in Ethiopia. And other conversations that are also happening outside of the church leadership center. So those are just a few that I'm involved in. And some days I almost can't, like, I'm like, okay, where on the globe are we today? And it's just very exciting and truly amazing to be able to meet with these folks and to imagine that there might be ways that we can work together to do theological education. I'm also beginning to work with others on developing modules focused on practical or applied leadership skills. These modules would be individually teaching skills like visioning, strategic planning, guiding good group processes, working with conflict, handling difficult conversations, chairing meetings. We'll be incorporating these modules into the seminary curriculum and also offering them as continuing education for active ministers and leaders. This fall I worked with David Kramer here in the Institute of Mennite Studies to provide consulting to a regional conference to help design a listening project for that conference for all of their churches using a research approach that I had learned in my doctoral program called appreciative inquiry. So that was exciting for me to do that kind of consulting in a different way and very fun. I'm currently making plans with Drew Straight to offer a new online short course on political idolatry and Christian nationalism for next year, an online short course in that topic as well as a webinar later this spring on that same topic, really relevant right now. And I've been helping to resource Hillcrest Academy in Kelowna, Iowa, which is formerly Iowa Mennonite School, my alma mater where I graduated in 1982. But anyway, helping to resource them in the area of strengthening and deepening their sense of anabaptist identity. I was invited to do this alongside of Tyler Hartford of the Ivana Network. The school has supporting churches for Mennonite Church USA and also from Ivana Network. And so the principal there who is my dear brother wanted Tyler and me to do this together. And since I grew up in the conservative Mennonite Conference and attended Iowa Mennonite School as one of a few conservative Mennonite students and benefited really greatly from my education there. It's just extremely important to me that Hillcrest Academy continue to serve anabaptist in that community from across the theological spectrum. And that shared identity in anabaptism would deepen among those churches. So it's just been a very interesting assignment for me and I've been enjoying it being back in that community in that unique way. Thank you, Jewel. That's so many wonderful projects. And I'm wondering, you didn't say any details about pastors and leaders but it is coming up in just a few weeks. In one month, we'll be in the middle of it actually. And I'm wondering if you can tell us what you're excited about, what should we know about the theme, about the resource persons that are joining us and maybe some insights that we haven't heard through the advertisements about it. Why should everyone be signing up for this year's pastors and leaders slash deep faith conference? Yeah, well, the title is formed in the wilderness leading in hope. And we were really looking for strength for difficult times, recognizing that people are stressed out. It's often very easy to feel like nobody's been here before, nobody's led through a pandemic in this way. None of us know what we're doing. We're all making it up as we go. And that can be really overwhelming and discouraging. And so in talking with Shana Bushhart who is the MCUSA faith formation minister and co-planer of this project, we began to just think about what does it mean that God has been faithful through all time to the people of God and leading them, showing them how to form faith even in the midst of some really tough stuff. We are not the first. And so how can we start to think about that together? And I had been reading Alan Crider's book previously at various points and somehow this emerged as, you know, can Alan in his wisdom, even from wherever he is with God now help us. And so we're just really, really grateful to Eleanor who is going to represent several chapters of the book. Grateful to Tom Yoder Neufeld who will be doing Bible studies on wilderness times and how God faithfully led God's people through the wilderness and in difficult times in scripture. Grateful to our respondents who are in various ministry context a lot of them on the younger side to be able to say, you know, this is what this material means to them in their context. And then also quite a few workshop leaders who are talking about how they've been formed in the wilderness and have found aspects of hope, ways to lead that have helped them specific experiences that they can offer to others that can offer hope. We have, I think it's something like 33 workshops or something and it's just an incredible number and it gives me hope that so many people said I have something of hope to offer. So. Yes, I was struck also by the number of workshops available both in person and online. There's just so many great sounding options. I'm wondering if you can share with us a dream or maybe two dreams that you have for AMBS. Yeah, well, this goes back a little bit to what I was saying about my work in Iowa, but also it's broader than that. And that is to say my dream is that our learning community and I define that broadly, our learning community online and in person would increasingly include more people from across the geographic, ethnic, theological, educational, ecclesiological spectrum. All studying and worshiping and growing together with a shared value on the anabaptist story and anabaptist approaches to scripture and what anabaptism offers to the church and the world today. I feel that in the face of all the polarization in the world and in the church, this work of learning to love each other across so many differences is crucial and it's transformative in what it does, I think, for our students, for the church and in what it offers and signals to the rest of the world. So that is my dream. That's a wonderful dream. I hope we can all join you in that. And also I'm wondering if you have any questions for the alumni who've joined us today, anything that would help you in your work or just something you're curious about? Yeah, I have two. How do you attend to your spiritual and mental and emotional health in this very difficult time? What are the kinds of ways, the practices, the philosophical commitments that have whatever it is that is helping you to get through? I'd like to hear about it. And also what, if any, programming, do you wish AMBS would provide that it doesn't? I'm curious about those things. Those are great questions. So if you would like to respond to one of those questions, you can put that in the chat and then everyone can see your responses. The two questions were how are you dealing or how are you keeping your mental and spiritual health in this difficult time? What are you doing to work at that? And second, what resources from AMBS would be valuable to you in your situation, whether that's retirement or ministry? And then we're ready to move into questions that you are asking. So I'll invite you to put those questions in the Q&A box that is at the bottom of your screen. And as people are starting to put their questions there, I'm gonna ask you one. Last year for pastors and leaders, you had the foresight to invite a group of singers who has now become nationally famous, girl named Tom. And I'd just be curious to hear about your relationship with that group and how you have experienced their participation in the voice on TV this fall. Well, thank you so much for asking. I'm such a huge fan, girl named Tom is just, they're quite the set of young people. Yeah, last year when I freaked out because we had a limit of 500 people that could get into that concert that we offered online. And for a few minutes, I thought maybe we would get 550 or something and we hadn't had a ticketing process or anything. And so I was really nervous and I told our IT person that we might get 500 and some people and he just laughed at me and said, what do you think? They're the rolling stones of the Mennonite church. I was like, well, I mean, kind of. But anyway, it was pretty funny. And then we only had like 150 people or something. So I was way off base and worrying way too prematurely, but I felt kind of validated then this year when they won the voice. The reason I know them is because they're friends with our kids from Goshen College. And so they came to the concert at Kern Road and we had a lunch and all chatted and encouraged them to come to Kern Road if they moved to South Bend, which they then did and they lived in South Bend and occasionally would come. They were not coming super regularly. They just came occasionally. But in the course of that time then, I don't know, we learned to know them and enthusiastically planned and executed watch parties all through the fall with young adults from Kern and beyond and just cheered and couldn't imagine. It was just so much fun. Is there anything else about that that you were wondering? No, it's just that we had so much fun talking about it here at work because so many people had relationships with them through Goshen College or other places, families. But I was struck by your sharing that at the end of it all, one of those young adults that kept coming to watch parties with you said, now we have to find another show to watch others. So you really were building community with these folks as well, like with these young people who were watching with you. What a neat, neat experience for you. And you work with the young adult group at Kern Road on a pretty regular basis, right? Yeah, we do this crazy thing where we have Sunday school for them and then lunch pretty much every Sunday. And so it's been really cool to see how lunch has really made a difference in their desire, I think to, maybe not desire, but just sense of belonging and feeling like they have a place. And so, yeah, it's really grown from almost no young adults four years ago to a pretty solid group of 15 or 16 and then a bunch of others that kind of come and go. Wow, that's great. Okay, the questions are starting to come in. Please remember to put your questions in the Q&A so that I can ask those to Jewel and I'll read the first one comes from Jennifer Davis-Sensenig and she's wondering, do you have any book recommendations? And she's thinking both theological books, novels, or other, thanks Jennifer for that question. Yeah, that's a great question. Well, recently I've read two novels that I would highly recommend. Maybe you've all read them already, but The Beekeeper of Aleppo, you've heard of that. It's a story of a refugee making their way from the war-torn Syria to Great Britain and he's a beekeeper. So that's just enlightening the experiences of that, yeah, reality. And then another one called Nothing to See Here I don't have to go into details about those, but I recently tried to take up a little bit of novel reading, which is kind of a different thing for me. If I had seen this question coming, I might have like a really meaningful theological book to recommend, but alas, I'm not thinking of it right now. I'm sure there is one. So a few people have started to answer your questions in the chat. Todd Friesen said, a daily practice of contemplative prayer has been a crucial lifeline for him, especially during this time. Elizabeth Soto said, the way she nurtures spirituality is to find a Spanish spiritual director to keep connected to her faith community. And Kathy responded just to us, not to everyone. I read Frederick Beekner's Listening to Your Life every morning and run with my big unruly dog in that created world. Yay. And she also is following girl named Tom. So a couple of you who wanna answer either one of Jules' questions in the chat. We love to see those. And we now have another question that has come in from Kathy Stoner. Thank you, Kathy. What's the process for signing up for the support groups for new pastors? So the transition group. Great question. So if you go to our website, there is information about the dates of the next Transition to Leadership group which is starting in April. And there you will see an application and the opportunity to give your name and that kind of thing. And then Julia Schmidt is the director of that program and she will get in touch with you and work with you to move through the next part of the process. So the way you get to that on our website is to go to ambs.edu backslash. Well, Transition to Leadership, I think. If somebody listening has a better address, let me know. Transition to Leadership. I can put it in the chat. And are there any particular qualifications, a certain number of years that people need to be in ministry to be in that group? You need to be out of seminary and in your first three to four years of pastoral ministry. What about other kinds of ministries? Does it serve other folks as well? Or is it intended for congregational pastoral chaplaincy? What kinds of ministries? It is intended for congregational ministry. Yeah. Okay, thank you. I don't know, sorry, I put it. Yeah, Chuck Neufeld has... Oh no, Jewel has sent it, but... I accidentally sent it to Chuck. There we go, now it's going to everyone. Okay. Everyone has it. All right, Chuck says, I've been... Chuck Neufeld says, I've been moved by what I've experienced as your deep joy. The roots of that joy seem deep. Wondering if you could comment on how you find and maintain joy in your life. Thank you, Chuck, for a great question. Yeah, thank you. Well, this... Yeah, I think that I was given so much joy from my parents and my family, and I just, I don't know. But also, there are just wonderful people in my life that I love to connect with. And when I told you about nurturing that relationship with God is crucially important to me. And I don't know. Chuck, thanks for asking. That's beautiful. I get to be around people a lot who are spiritually wise. And yeah, I've had a lot of people in my life as mentors and family members and co-workers and friends. And they're not all men and I. They're not all involved in my current context here at work, but just in a lot of different... They include those people, but it goes beyond that, I think. So that depth of wisdom keeps reminding me that, although we struggle in this world, God is present and active. Please keep sending your questions for Jewel or your comments in the chat. Jewel, I'll ask another one. And I'm wondering if you could say a little bit more about what is behind the modules that you talked about developing earlier. Could you explain the conversations that were happening last summer with church leaders across Canada and the US and what AMBS learned from those conversations and how that is impacting the development of these modules? Is that a fair question to ask? Yeah, sure. So we had the opportunity to apply for a Lilly grant and we did not get the grant, but the grant focused on pathways to leadership. Pathways for tomorrow is called. And in the process of developing our grant proposal, we decided to go to first leaders, primarily conference leaders and regional church ministers from Canada and then also several representatives of underrepresented groups and asked for kind of what is needed in pastoral ministry to support pastoral ministry right now to really help pastors face into the future and be able to lead in the church today and tomorrow. And what we kept hearing over and over was that pastors need more skills in these leadership areas that these are really places where people, it's kind of like the rubber hits the road and it's hard to implement some of these things. And so after a process of listening, which we had Paula Keelow very involved in and also Betty Priest's consulting firm in Canada, they did the listening with these leaders and then reported back to us what they were hearing while that was definitely not the only thing they heard, it was one thing that kept emerging and it was just very commonly spoken as a need. And so we decided to propose these modules as a way to begin to address some of those needs. And we had a consultation with a number of these leaders and tested with them our idea of leadership modules and got resounding support to move ahead. And it's possible that in some way these modules will also be useful in the D-MEN program as pieces of the competencies that folks are working at. And so with a focus on leadership in the D-MEN and then the need for these practical leadership skills, I see that these are going to emerge as something that we're better equipped to resource people on in going forward from here. And I might have missed something. I heard you talk about Canadian leaders. Was this a consultation across the US as well? It was Canadian and US leaders, I'm sorry, yeah. Denominational ministers and conference leaders from the US and regional church leaders from Canada. So this was quite a wide ranging consultation. And I know many people here are feeling grateful for the things that we learned from that. So look forward to that. Okay, we are still waiting for some more questions from our alums. So please ask those. Jill, I'll ask you something a little more personal again but what's something you like to do in your free time if you have any? What are the things you enjoy doing? Well, I love reading novels. I love coffee with friends. I love walks with friends. I've been in the mountains quite a bit lately because our son's in Denver and we visited him a number of times. And so trying out my hiking skills is a good thing. I think that for me though, there's nothing that beats good conversation with folks I love. So always trying to find more ways to make that happen. I don't know, I learned a little bit during the pandemic about my introverted side too. So who knew that I had that but I found myself appreciating the time at home and the time to just kind of go deeper in some of the topic areas I was interested in and that kind of thing. So I don't know. I feel like my personal hobbies are really kind of underdeveloped but they work for me. So what can I say? A reading, getting together with friends, visiting, that sounds great. So, and I'm curious, do a lot of your conversations, excuse me, and do a lot of your conversations at home head towards theology, especially now that you have a spouse who is a seminary student. Yes, all the time. One of the crazy things that we have discovered is that he gravitates toward classes that I never took and I went through seminary and took a lot of classes that he's not signing up for. The types of things that we're each interested in have just been, this is different. And so that's been fascinating to see how that kind of plays out. Like, I don't know, people probably don't know this. I did the Master of Arts in Theological Studies. So I did like Creek and Hebrew and all the biblical studies I could get my hands on and then I took preaching and pastoral care and some of those kinds of things as more of a, just a little bit, you know, not much of that. Where he's coming in and it's all about human development and Christian formation, pastoral care, spirituality stuff. Right now he's doing an independent study on the Holy Spirit. And so with Jamie Pitts, we just are balancing each other out in a funny way. And actually Fred has put a bell on our dinner table and it's a little office bell. And he wants it there so that if either of us have an experience during the day of feeling the spirit with us in some way, we ring the bell and tell the other one about it. And so we've been doing that a lot, not every day, but every now and then happened a couple of times last night. So it's like, dang, and then thank you God for this moment. And so it has been incredibly interesting to have a spouse who's been sort of discovering seminary life and spirituality kinds of things in more recent years in a deeper way. That's an awesome practice. This is a question from Jennifer Davis-Sensnick. Can you describe the process for bringing an AMBS professor to a congregation, the Invite AMBS? How much does it cost? Is it one or several sessions? What are some of the themes that congregations have asked for? Okay, so we have this new thing that we call Invite AMBS. And what happens is that basically you can tailor the visit to your needs. So it might be as brief as a sermon on a Sunday morning in Zoom, or it might be having somebody come to your community for three days and do kind of meetings for a large group of people or a consultation for the leadership. Really, it's extremely flexible. And I am looking at the page right now just so that I can tell you some of the themes that people have asked for. Intercultural competence and undoing racism is a big one. Here we go. We have women in the Bible, trauma-informed Bible study, improvisational leadership, healthy boundaries, becoming a community of healing and hope, Christian nationalism and political idolatry, reading the Bible from an Anabaptist perspective, Anabaptist history and theology. Trauma-informed care, pastoral care. It's just the list is fairly long. And the reality is that nonviolent communication is another one, confessional Bible study, feminist and womanist theologies. The reality with this program is that if you have a particular subject that you wanna see addressed or a particular person you wanna hear from, you can contact, invite AMBS and just tell them kind of what you're looking for. And then Steve Norton, who is the person who's coordinating that program here is able to talk you through kind of, okay, for this type of a situation, this would be our recommended fee. We do ask for Honoraria for these folks and if they're traveling for travel reimbursement. And he will give you recommendations always with the statement that we don't require that you pay that amount. This is a recommendation if you're able, but if it doesn't work out for you to do that, we wanna meet you where you're at so that we can make it possible for this to work out because we have professors and other employees who really wanna be there with you and wanna speak to the kinds of questions you have. So Jennifer, I don't know if you have any more questions about that, but please put them in the chat if you do or in the Q and A. Did I cover everything she was asking, Janine? Yeah, I think so. All right, one last chance for any questions that anyone wants to send in. I'll put the inviteABS link in the chat now also. All right, this question comes from Patrick Obande. What are some of the ways in which you are engaging the Anabaptist-oriented congregations in developing the modules? Thank you, Patrick, for that question. Yeah, so the way that our plan, our proposal for this program is worded is that we're going to form an advisory group that includes a number of people who are currently in active ministry roles. We are not planning to develop these modules solely from within the seminary, but rather to bring in experts in these various areas to help guide us in our planning. So I think that the specifics of how that will look will be determined by the advisory group. They will have a lot of ownership in these leadership modules. Thank you, Jewel, for answering all of these questions and giving us an insight into your work at AMBS. And I wanna thank all of you alumni for your ongoing support of AMBS. Alumni are our most important influencers in the church, both of prospective students and of donors. Thanks to all of you for joining us this afternoon. And thanks also to student Janet McGeary, who provided technical support for this webinar. This concludes today's Thursday conversation. Have a wonderful day.