 I encourage those who are leaving the public gallery to do so as quickly and as quietly as possible as we are resuming business with a member's business debate on motion 7, 6, 8, 6 in the name of Pauline McNeill on supporting taxi drivers. The debate will be concluded without any questions being put. I invite members wishing to participate to press the request to speak button now or as soon as possible. I call Pauline McNeill to open the debate around seven minutes, Ms McNeill. Thank you, Presiding Officer. Follow that as they say. I don't apologise for bringing people back down to earth and thanks for staying. It's time to stand up for taxi drivers across the country. Taxis are a vital part of our public transport system. The taxi sector has become more vital in recent years due to unreliable train services and bus services, which I hope will get better through the years. This is my very first member's debate this session, and I chose to make it about the plight of taxi drivers because this industry needs our focus right now and immediate action. I, along with many of my sketchy Scottish Labour colleagues, will speak today about the clear support and of our demands. Today I stand in support of Glasgow taxi drivers in particular, as a Glasgow member, to highlight the contribution that taxi drivers make to the economy, its connectivity and the cultural life of Glasgow. Taxi drivers play a vital role in our public transport system. They plug the gaps left by unreliable train services and bus services, and they cover the times of the days where other forms of transport are not running. I have been working with taxi drivers in the last Parliament and in this Parliament, as many of you have, but I also lobby in Glasgow City Council and the current finance secretary Kate Forbes on their behalf, because I believe that they have been neglected during the pandemic and I believe that they are being neglected now. Their concerns about the low-emission zones being introduced in Glasgow—in fact, I speak for other cities—so far have been ignored. Glasgow taxi drivers have said that they do support the principle of the LEZ zone, but all they have asked for is a short delay of a year to give them time to comply with the scheme. Even then, if that was to happen, it will not be enough for many. Black Cabs, in particular, has been an iconic feature of Glasgow City Centre. I do not understand why any administration seemingly will go out of their way to ignore this important fact. We know that around 1,000 cabs of the fleet at 1,420 are not Euro 6 compliant, so that is 1,000 taxi drivers at the moment who cannot enter the LEZ zone in Glasgow. We can now begin to see the extent of the problem. While 200 cabs have been given an extra 12 months, it leaves the rest of the taxi sector having to find thousands of pounds that they simply do not have in a cost of living crisis. The worry is that many will leave the trade and will be replaced. The high cost for new electric vehicles is approximately £60,000, with an average age of a cab driver, believe it or not, nearly 60 years old. The finance option for a new vehicle is not really a viable solution for many. Due to the global supply chain shortages, the second hand market is also sparse at present, meaning that there is a significant lack of options for compliance. You can see that there are layers and layers of problems here. The LEZ zone will have a devastating impact on traders, taxi drivers and low-income and older drivers who are unable to buy new cars. I am very grateful to my colleague giving way. One of the services that taxis do bring with regard to our young people is in transport of particular groups of young people to and from school. Without adequate replacements of that, those young people are going to lose out on their education. There is only a short pause being asked by taxi drivers and would not be realistic for the expectation of that education delivery that both the Scottish Government and, in particular, the Glasgow Council meet that. I thank Martin Wightfield for that intervention. I could not agree more. There are so many dimensions to the impact on the Scottish economy and the way people get to school and the way people get to their work, and young people in particular. Stephen Grant of the trade union unites Glasgow cab branch said that it will have a devastating impact on the trade, which is why it called for all cabs to have a delay, at least until June 2024 in relation to the LEZ zone. I support United's call for a pause on the LEZ zone and for taxi drivers. I hope that the Government is listening to those cab drivers working day in and day out in our city. I hope that the other members will address what is happening in other cities, but if they would forgive me, I will focus a bit on Glasgow. Glasgow City Council must work with those drivers, as it has not done up to now, to allow time to source compliant vehicles. The taxi drivers have been crying out for support due to inadequate grant support and the unfairness of restrictions that affect busy town centres. We need a new deal for the taxi trade and a strategy that recognises the importance of taxis to our economy. Glasgow noted that the night-time economy in its 2020 city centre strategy aimed at ensuring that Glasgow remains one of the top city centres and urban tourism destinations. Research has revealed that the night-time economy between the hours of 6pm and 6am generates £2.6 billion per annum for the city, supporting 16,500 full-time jobs, while the retake sector generates more than £3.3 billion and supports 17,000 full-time jobs. The impact on the economy is extraordinary, and I am sure that is the case in other cities. Combined employment from the sector represents over a fifth of city centre working population. Many of those workers in the city centre rely on taxis to bring them home after their shift, and people who worked during the evening and early hours on nightclubs and bars will be severely affected as they will now have to rely on public transport. I am sure that other members like me have had parents contact. In fact, parents in your own family know that many people have just simply walked home from the city centre because they cannot get a taxi. That is quite a frightening thought for a parent, thinking that your child or young person is walking quite long distances to get home because they simply cannot get home any other way. The lack of availability of taxis will greatly affect those who work in a city centre during the evenings and busy weekends. We must recognise the vital role that it plays in a city like Glasgow. I am in the city centre quite late at night. Those of you who know that I am a musician and I play in Glasgow's city centre, I can already see that people start to leave the pubs early, earlier than they used to, and that is simply because they are worried about getting home. Again, there are obviously other issues to do with public transport, but getting a properly viable taxidrate is absolutely vital to getting the city centre back into its former patterns. Taxidrivers provide a safe transport option for women. I know that that was addressed in the debate a few weeks ago. The vulnerable people at night provide an important service for people with mobility issues, and a topic that was covered by my colleague Pam Duncan-Glancy. Glasgow taxis have demonstrated an on-going commitment to city safety through its commitment to the safe taxi scheme and the safety initiative to ensure that if a Glasgow student is alone and they found themselves stuck in and out with no money, they can still make it back home safely by using their student card as payment in emergency situations. Too often, students cannot end up in potentially unsafe circumstances and not being able to get home. Glasgow taxis are to be commended for their commitment to getting young students home safe at night. As a regional member, I have to say that I watched the SNP administration in Glasgow set up a policy that could literally wipe out black cab trade in the city. With no response so far as to how we are going to see our way through this, taxi drivers across Scotland who have lobbied this Parliament, not only recently, were given grant funding to compensate for the impact of restrictions during Covid. However, some local authorities paid out more than once, but Glasgow did not. Glasgow paid once out of the fund. There seems to be no realisation that Glasgow has been the most locked-down city in the UK that it would have such a devastating impact, and we are still feeling it now. That is why I brought this debate to Parliament today. We must learn the lessons from the restrictions that we imposed and, if, hopefully, this will never happen again, a pandemic of this kind. We must learn that we have to support trades like this in the period in between when they try to recover. I am glad that I have had the chance to speak in this debate today. I look forward to other contributions. David Torrance, to be followed by Pam Duncan-Glancy, up to four minutes. Thank you to the Parliament, Neil, for securing this debate on such an important topic. Provisions of taxis are a vital part of our transport system. I very much share the concerns of taxi drivers across the country about the challenges facing the sector as a result of Covid-19 pandemic, Brexit and the cost-of-living crisis. Taxi drivers provide an invaluable service to key workers and vulnerable people throughout lockdown and beyond. I was very much welcome with 57 million in support that was offered to taxi drivers by the Scottish Government in the immediate aftermath of the pandemic. As deputy convener of the Citizens Participation and Public Petitions Committee, I have had the privilege of hearing evidence from taxi drivers and representatives across the sector on the further support that is needed for industry to fully recover from the effects of the pandemic. The committee has listened carefully to the proposal set out in the petition that was submitted on behalf of Unite. I am very much welcome announcement from Transport Scotland that it will explore with trade unions and other stakeholders the best forum for engagement with the taxi trade and to address any on-going concerns. As the motion recognises, support for the taxi drivers is not just a transportation issue, it is of culture, social, economic and environmental concern, and I welcome the Scottish Government's cross-sectoral approach in treating it as such. For example, I am proud of the Scottish Government's ambitions plans to prioritise the just transition to net zero by offering low-emission zones retrofit grants available to taxi drivers to help support the shift to lower emissions and greener vehicles. I will acknowledge that it has been difficult for taxi drivers in Glasgow to do. The Citizens Participation and Public Petitions Committee has seen evidence from the taxi sector regarding potential challenges when the reductions of low-emission zones may present to taxi drivers. I am reassured to know that our transport minister is working closely with taxi representatives and unions to discuss the matter further. Fife is one of the most heavily populated local authorities in Scotland. Now, although we benefit from a range of rail and bus services, taxes are an essential part of our transport chain, contributing significantly to the access to Fife's rail of hospitality, tourism, night lift, manufacturing, industries and outdoor activities. With a summer season on its way, it is essential that taxi drivers feel supported and valued as major players in our local economy as they are in Glasgow. Presiding Officer, I am incredibly sympathetic about the financial pressures facing taxi drivers at this time. We cannot ignore the glaring obvious pitfalls of the UK Government's recent spring budget. Households across the country, including those of taxi drivers, are facing the biggest fault in living standards on record, and the families are seeing their incomes devastated by a cost of living crisis. I am confident that the Scottish Government is using its limited powers and resources to address the cost of living crisis. While the Chancellor's increase in funding to the Scottish Government is welcome, it is nowhere near adequate to deal with significant fiscal challenges as a direct result of economic chaos caused by Westminster, facing the Scottish Government and the Scottish local authorities. I know that it will be huge disappointment for the taxi industry that the Chancellor missed an opportunity to implement wheel support and to grant the levers to the Scottish Government that are necessary to implement wheel support to taxi drivers. The Chancellor's measures will also do little to mitigate the damage of breakfasts, breakfasts, which has intensified the driver shortage of crisis in Scotland. The impact on labour shortages has been felt across Scotland, including in many areas in my constituency. In evidence submitted to the Citizens' Participation and Public Petitions Committee, Fife Council raised concerns that taxi operators are constantly having to turn down hires on a regular basis due to the shortage of drivers across Fife. The issue has been exacerbated by a massive decrease in taxi driver numbers according to the Scottish Taxi Federation. Driver numbers have been devastated by Covid, with many deciding not to return to the taxi trade in favour of other employment oppositions. I would like to conclude by giving the immense thanks to taxi drivers in my constituency and across the country for the continuing to provide the people of Scotland with a fast, safe, reliable and economical transport. It is clear that there are many pressures facing the industry. The aftermath of a pandemic, Brexit and the cost of living crisis and the Citizens' Participation and Public Petitions Committee will continue to take the evidence from the sector in order to advise the Scottish Government on the best way forward. Thank you, Mr Sons, and I call Pam Duncan-Glancy to be followed by Graham Simpson for up to four minutes. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I would like to thank my friend and colleague, Polly McNeill, for bringing this debate to the chamber and for all the work that she has done to support the taxi trade, including in Glasgow. Presiding Officer, I would like to use my time to talk mainly about how important taxes are to me and other disabled people. As a disabled woman, most types of public transport in Glasgow simply are not accessible to me. I cannot use the subway as most of the platforms have steps and no lifts, and even where I could get to the platform, the current trains are not accessible for wheelchair users. Buses have a one wheelchair rule, meaning that I cannot travel on them if there is already a wheelchair user on board or indeed a pram, and I cannot travel on buses with my partner, who is also a wheelchair user. I told the chamber of this story earlier this month that it not only hampers my ability to get around, but it is also dangerous, and I told the chamber of the experience I had when I had to travel on my own at night and was followed home doing so. It is not even that ambulances are fully accessible in the city of Glasgow. When I fell last year, there was no space to take my wheelchair with me or for my husband to come. It was taxis that stepped up. That is crucial for disabled people and also for women, as I will come on to. I am not alone. Research carried out by Transport Scotland shows that disabled people are less likely to have a driving licence than non-disabled people, and they are less likely to have a car available to their household than non-disabled people. Having public transport that is accessible is vital for us to travel around freely and participate in society in the same way that our peers do, but we are not there yet. For most disabled people, myself included, taxis are by far the easiest and most accessible form of public transport available to us. Disabled people make twice as many taxi journeys a year compared to non-disabled people. Right across the region, Glasgow black cabs are helping disabled people to get to school, go to work, see friends, access hospital appointments and, as I have said, even provide them with an emergency service. Taxis are not only key to disabled people. They also provide a safe form of transport for many others, including women, particularly when travelling at home at night. They are really fundamental to so many people, which is why I am deeply concerned about the impact that the low-emission zone in Glasgow is going to have on the trade. We are already seeing problems. People, as my colleague Paul McNeill has spoken of, walking home or leaving early. Disabled people are not getting to work on time because of delays caused by fewer cabs available. And trouble getting disabled children, as my colleague Martin Whitfield has spoken of, to school, all because there are fewer drivers in the trade already. The situation is serious. Although I support action to address climate change, including low-emissions zones, our transition to net zero must be just. And to be just, that transition must protect jobs and equality. As it currently stands, I believe that the implementation of the low-emissions zone in Glasgow will fall far short of this standard. I first met with representatives of the Glasgow Unite cab section in February 2022, after they had launched their Stop the Black Cab Blackout campaign the weekend before. Not long after that I met Glasgow taxis, the largest supplier of licensed taxis in Glasgow, with an entirely wheelchair-accessible fleet. They all told me the same thing, that without urgent action the low-emissions zone will be devastating for the public taxi trade and drivers in it in Glasgow. And my colleague Pauli McNeill has of course set out in detail the stark reality that faces those drivers. We are in a cost-of-living crisis. Many drivers are already struggling to make ends meet and we've heard that already in this debate. Without action from the Government they cannot afford to meet the requirements. It's not just funding that's the only factor. As we've heard, a decline in the supply of parts is also affecting the industry and delaying retrofitting work too. Other authorities such as Edinburgh and Aberdeen have recognised how hard this is for taxis and rightly have extended the implementation of their low-emissions zones until 2024. However, Glasgow City Council is refusing to do this for so many taxi drivers. They're not opposed to action to tackle emissions. They are simply asking for more time and financial help so that they have a fair chance of meeting the requirements of the low-emissions zone. Job losses and unemployment are already a significant problem in Glasgow. What thought has been given to those drivers for how many reskilling simply isn't an option? What are they to do? And what are disabled people and women and everybody else who rely so heavily on taxis meant to do when so many go off the road? Presiding Officer, since the moment I learnt about the devastating impacts Glasgow's low-emissions zone could have on the black cab trade there, I've not stopped fighting to save them. We cannot let Glasgow's accessible black cab trade die. We cannot leave thousands of drivers without jobs and we cannot leave women and disabled people without safe and accessible transport. So in closing, I ask will the minister in her statement please take action and set out how she will take action to give Glasgow's black cab taxi trades a fighting chance at survival? Thank you. Thank you very much. I now call Graham Simpson to be followed by Paul Sweeney up to four minutes. Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. Can I thank Pauline McNeill for bringing this debate to the chamber? It's really, really important. I was driving into Glasgow earlier this week and I saw a rather depressing sight as I drove in along the M77. Huge signs, massive signs by the roadside advertising the fact that the low-emissions zone is coming into effect in June. So it seems there's no turning back. This is going to happen. Now Pauline McNeill has rightly described taxis as part of our public transport system and that's that's how we need to view them particularly in a city like Glasgow. Edinburgh's the same. But in Glasgow we've kind of become used to having lots of black cabs around. You're just able to stick out your thumb and get a black cab. There've been so many black cabs that actually when my wife and I got married a long time ago we invited guests just to stick out their thumb and get a black cab and go to where we're having our celebratory meal. That's how good they've been. Now I fear as Pauline McNeill fears and members of the Unite, the union who I've been working with that we're going to lose hundreds, hundreds and hundreds of black cabs in that city. And the effect of that, of course, as people have pointed out is that this will affect women. And I know the minister feels that very strongly. And as Pam Duncan-Glancy has said disabled people who need to get home particularly late at night black cabs provide a service that cannot be provided by anyone else. Now Glasgow City Council knows the issues they should understand the trade. Let me explain the black cab trade to you Deputy Presiding Officer. In Glasgow in fact across Scotland our taxi drivers tend to buy second hand vehicles. And a lot of them come from the London market. So they have to wait for those second hand vehicles to appear in the second hand market. And that's really why they're asking for extra time because those vehicles just aren't there yet. So we face a cliff edge in June or Glasgow faces a cliff edge where we will lose taxes we will just lose taxes. That's a fact. And the city is going to suffer and not just the city people who live near the city who go into the city people who live in places like East Kilbride where I'm from you know that. Glasgow is a regional centre so it's not just for the people of Glasgow it's for the people who come into Glasgow. Glasgow city council can and it is going to introduce the low emission zone but it can still be flexible it could exempt taxis for the year that they're asking for it's not too late. So I've seen it merely say to the minister if she's speaking to her colleagues in Glasgow city council the low emission zone meter can be paused and should be paused and it's for the benefit of people like women disabled people children is for the benefit of the public who need taxis it's also for the benefit of the taxi trade and it makes sense. Thank you. Thank you very much. Mr Simpson I now call Paul Sweeney to be followed by Fausal Joidry for around four minutes. Mr Sweeney Thank you deputy Presiding Officer and I want to congratulate my Glasgow colleague Pauli McNeill for bringing this important motion for members business to debate in the chamber today and I hope that the minister has heard the words of members across the chamber in this critical issue facing taxi drivers across our city and across Scotland more widely. And I speak from some experience my dad is a taxi driver someone in his 60s who drives a taxi in Glasgow and he did that because he was made redundant from the shipyards and it was a way of him being able to earn a stable income and have some more control over his life after suffering from the impact of deindustrialisation in a city like Glasgow. And that's the story of many taxi drivers in our city who do it because it offered a flexible and stable income. And there are people by and large sure of that generation of maybe in their 50s and 60s they aren't the sort of people who are prepared or able to take on tens of thousands of pounds of debt to finance the purchase of a new vehicle and not would they want to because they're not in a point in their careers where that makes sense. So that's where we're in this real kind of wicked problem of a crunch where a new technology is coming in the phasing out of internal combustion engine vehicles the new second hand market isn't established and there isn't the financial where with all our products available to facilitate that transition in a meaningful way and then to add insult to that injury the council are in Glasgow certainly are pigheadedly pressing ahead with the blunt implementation of a low emission zone and have not paid heed to the valid concerns that have been raised from taxi drivers. And I know that taxi drivers are not luddites they're not anti-environmental improvement. They want to go with the grain but they need to be given a fair deal in the same way that the bus companies have been given a fair deal to renew their fleets with substantial and very generous public subsidies and along with the large capital raising capacity of bus companies to renew their fleets. Taxi drivers who are often self-employed often don't have the means to raise capital are upon their lives where they aren't able to get that kind of finance need that extra support from the government otherwise the public good provided by taxes as described so eloquently by colleagues across the chamber today whether it was in the educational aspects disability access or indeed supporting our night-time economy will suffer we will all suffer because we all have skin in the game of having a thriving taxi industry and in the context in Glasgow whereby we have a public transport system that is basically non-existent after we have passed 11 at night until 6am in the morning they're all more critical and we've heard about the safety implications of them not being available both for workers and those who participate in our night-time economy as consumers we're hearing the chilling effect that's having on our wider economy worth billions of pounds a year and Glasgow is a city with a very low city centre residential population which relies disproportionately on people travelling from the suburbs Mr Simpson described from places like East Kilbride from the outer suburbs of the city to participate in the hospitality venues in the city centre and they are not going to be able to do that it's changing behaviour and that has an effect on revenues and it results in business failure so it has a compounding effect if we don't address this first hand and we have lots of opportunities I mean certainly we've heard pretty damaging figures of the licences in Glasgow down 15% since 2019 and when you add in shift drivers I would argue that the actual availability of taxes on the road are probably a factor of twice as big so we're actually seeing potentially up to a third to half of the available taxes on the streets of Glasgow any one time down that's a pretty horrific number and I know from personal experience coming off the train at Queen Street in the evenings how difficult it is to get a taxi particularly in midweek so it is a major issue but there are solutions out there Greater Manchester's clean air plan shows it is possible to take action to improve air quality without harming the taxi trade their clean air plan includes proposals for a greater Manchester-wide clean air zone and that's been introduced alongside a total of £21.4 million in funding for the tax industry to renew their fleets and to allow for that transition to more compliant vehicles and we can do that with a major manufacturer in the city such as Ally vehicles the UK's largest taxi manufacturer in Glasgow employing 600 people there's a joined up approach work with the industry to develop a product that is practical and can work better than the ones that have been done so far the switched on tax loan scheme just does not work it's not got the scale needed and it doesn't address those issues so I would appeal to the minister to look at this again and work with the council and with industry to solve this problem cos there is a willingness to do it we just need to get the right pieces in place to make it work thank you very much Mr Swinney and I call the final speaker in the open debate Faisal Chowdry up to four minutes please thank you Deputy Presiding Officer thank you to my colleague Pauline McLean for highlighting this issue in the chamber today's motion highlights the important service that taxi drivers provide for the transport sector they provide a means of transport for those unable to take public transport as well as safe route home from thousands of people who are not comfortable with using public transport on their own or late night they also provide a means of transport of those physically unable to take buses, trains or trams and in places where public transport is not easily accessible I echo the words of the motion today in emphasising the support that Scotland taxi services provide to the hospitality and event sector as shadow minister for culture I recognise the importance role the taxi drivers play in the revitalising the cultural sector in both Glasgow and Edinburgh after a difficult few years for the industry loss of the industries felt that the impact of the Covid-19 pandemic but this unprecedented times forced many taxi drivers to give up their profession entirely throughout the pandemic taxi drivers struggled with severely reduced passengers number and restrictions that made it very difficult for them to work full time they did not receive enough support from the Scottish Government and as many taxi drivers are self-employed they were forced to find other means of income many did not return to the profession after the pandemic this has further exacerbated the shortage of taxi drivers in cities across Scotland the Scottish Government move towards low emission zone will further exacerbate the challenges faced by taxi drivers and will make their jobs even more difficult it is clear that not enough is being done to support taxi drivers throughout this transition the Scottish Government must reinforce their value of taxi drivers and do more to support their important job as I have already mentioned taxi drivers provide a safe route home for those who cannot travel on public transport or feel unsafe when working home alone as I highlighted in my speech in international omens day taxi drivers often provide this vital service while dealing with mass amount of unruly, aggressive and intoxicated passengers many of my constituents who are taxi drivers have told me of the difficulty of having to deal with stressful and complicated situation by themselves as many are self-employed more should be done to ensure that taxi drivers are met with the same level of respect as the other public service provider the Scottish Government must facilitate action towards supporting taxi drivers and the valuable contribution they make to the night-time economy and culture industry Thank you very much, Mr Chowdry and I call on Jenny Gilruth to respond to the debate minister for around seven minutes, please Thank you, Presiding Officer Can I start by congratulating Pauline McNeill on securing this afternoon's important members' debate and Pauline McNeill was absolutely right to speak to the vital importance of our taxi drivers to the Scottish economy I've listened very carefully to the contributions from members this afternoon and I really do appreciate the issues and concerns that have been raised by members I'll try to respond to each in turn I'm just conscious, Presiding Officer that next week I might not be the transport minister and I wanted today to put on record my commitment to engaging throughout my time and post as transport minister directly with our trade unions but particularly with our trade unions in relation to this issue and in fact I met with them on this matter only last week Now, as we were hearing in the previous session of course exactly three years ago today the country entered a national lockdown stay at home was the mantra saving lives was the imperative and of course lockdown restrictions as we've heard today and this afternoon cut us off from family and friends but they also necessitated that certain businesses had to stop trading cafe shops ceased to trade and indeed of course the Scottish economy contracted during the first few months of lockdown by 20 per cent Now the Scottish Government did provide support making available around £4.4 billion in grants and non-domestic rates relief that helped to save many businesses that acted like a lifetime but as I know we've heard from Pauline McNeill and from others today it was a really really challenging time for our taxi industry and we also know as we've heard from members this afternoon that demand for taxi drivers plummeted of course throughout the pandemic operators reporting around an 80 per cent drop in bookings and I think we heard some of that from Fausal Fausal trading's contribution because many drivers of course chose to leave the profession as I think we also heard from Mr Sweeney and those who did stay reported huge reductions in relation to their income Now there was specific funding provided by the Scottish Government I think as I mentioned to the taxi trade through the Taxi and Private Hire Driver Support Fund and Lately through the Taxi and Private Hire Vehicle Driver and Operator Support Fund but as we heard from Pauline McNeill the importance of the night time economy particularly during our recovery from the pandemic cannot be underestimated and Fausal trading will know my particular interest in this given my previous ministerial responsibilities as Minister for Culture it's really important that we have a holistic approach in government that recognises the challenge particularly that's faced by our night time economy at the current time and I think too particularly in Glasgow where it's such a thriving industry and I have to put on record of course being half glass median that I lived in Glasgow I think for nearly a quarter of my life as a student and then laterally when I was working so I very much recognise the vibrancy of that night time economy and the need to support it adequately and particularly our taxi drivers who work in that environment now as I've put on record I've previously met with the STUC I've met with Unite and I also at the end of last year met with the Scottish Association of Private Higher Operators to talk about this issue and others more broadly there were a number of challenges faced by the sector at the current time I think we heard from David Torrance about some of the challenges in relation to driver shortages which have been exacerbated to some extent by Brexit it's also true to say as I mentioned that some have just simply chose to walk away from the trade completely I do want to make mention of the importance of properly licensed taxes and as I think we heard from Graham Simpson and from others women and minorities often depend on our taxi trade to get home safely absolutely Pauline McNeill OK, given way it's before you move on to that I just wanted to highlight facts Paul so we need to talk about this and it has made this important to me actually in conversation now there's a good one which is that would you have any influence or in your post now and I wish you well on that in the future to talk about how local authorities like Glasgow could sit down with companies and other parts of the sector and bring them a bit more together to see what I've called for a new deal for taxi drivers you know Glasgow is the most locked down city and that's part of the issue but obviously the city's not returning to what it was it kind of speaks to me be and I know you're talking to lots of people that a deal encompassing companies that could bring something to the table might be something that you could encourage authorities like Glasgow to do comments through the chair and minister I'm more than happy to consider the member's suggestion and particularly in relation to licensing I've been in discussion with officials on this point this morning actually and of course responsibility for licensing actually sits with another minister within Scottish Government but I think there is a requirement for more commonality in respect to how that's administered across local authorities to ensure there's more of a level playing ground if that is the point the member was alluding to I recognise that very much so yes absolutely Paul Sweeney Thank you, thank you minister for giving me just to develop that point about a tax of renewal and a product available so the switched on tax alone scheme isn't attractive to older drivers for the reasons that I mentioned in my speech but perhaps working with a manufacturer like Allied could develop a PCP type scheme or a patient leasing scheme that might be attractive to drivers and then could allow them to transition without the huge upfront capital costs of buying a vehicle that would come to be £60,000 to £100,000 Minister, thank you for your turn Mark I think the member makes a very important and valid point I'm not going to give my commitment on the record today for reasons he will well understand however I think that is a very persuasive argument in relation to how that could be administered in the future and of course I think as we've heard from David Torrance Transport Scotland irrespective of who holds this position next week will continue to engage with the transport minister on this matter directly with local authorities because it is a non-going challenge Now we heard from Pam Duncan-Glancy who spoke of some of the challenges in relation to accessibility on our wider public transport network she will know I'm very live to those issues through wider work we're undertaking in relation to women's safety but there is a huge challenge here and of course taxis play a vital role in relation to that accessibility point and there's more that we will need to do as a Government on that matter irrespective of who holds this post in the future Now I don't think there's been a debate today Presiding Officer about the need for low emission zones there was a question raised at First Minister's question relation relating to climate change and how we're going to aspire to reach our ambitious climate change targets and undoubtedly low emission zones have a role to play in that regard and actually earlier this week there was data published that looked at those Scots living in some of the poorest area in Scotland being much more likely to die from lung conditions and I know that Asman, Lung UK are calling on Governments including this Government to do more to tackle health inequalities by improving air quality and low emission zones have a key role to play I think in that endeavour Now we've spoken today at great length about some of the specifics in relation to Glasgow City Council and obviously as Minister these decisions are for Glasgow City Council but I will say and put on the record that I have discussed this matter with Glasgow City Council most recently only two weeks ago I think Now Glasgow City Council of course are responsible for granted exemptions I know there is also and I think I've discussed this matter with Pam Duncan Glancy in a previous parliamentary exchange there is a specific challenge in Glasgow because of the age of the fleet at the current time where they have a much much older fleet than other parts of the country that is in part due to the council's licensing conditions historically having been more lax than in other parts of the country Now I know that taxi absolutely Pam Duncan Glancy I thank the minister for taking the intervention on that basis would the minister agree that therefore there is a case to be made that Glasgow would therefore delay for taxi drivers the implementation of the low emissions zone in order for them to put in place things like what my colleague Paul Sweeney has suggested and interventions that Paulie McNeill has suggested in others Minister Well obviously this is a matter for the city council but I hear the member's point and I just want to come on to the position of Glasgow City Council is of course one for them to outline but I recognise that taxi operators and the unions have been engaging with the local authority I think very recently Glasgow have confirmed there will be an additional year for those that can't be retrofitted and the position for others is simply a requirement to demonstrate that they have signed up to the process of applying for funding and I understand the trade and guidance is about to be issued on this early next week but of course that is a matter for Glasgow City Council certainly I did discuss that very matter that the member has raised with the unions only last week Presiding Officer I'm conscious of time and we have discussed at length some of the issues in today's Saturday rather debate in relation to the importance of low emission zones and I recognise the views of members particularly in relation to some of the challenges that are being experienced in Glasgow I commit as transport minister to work with our trade unions to reach a resolution and with the city council I recognise the city council are taking action of course the taxi trade plays a really vital role in Scotland it gets people from A to B it protects vulnerable passengers as we've heard and it provides mobility to those who otherwise might not be able to access key services the government has absolutely committed to improving our air quality through the rollout of low emission zones we will continue this important work and we will also continue to support the taxi and private higher trade they make a really vital contribution to Scottish society and we will continue that support to the sector as best we can Presiding Officer Thank you very much minister that concludes the debate and I suspend this meeting of parliament until 2.30