 Hey, what's up everyone? I know it's been a long time since I released a video, but today I got a special guest here with me I got Eric Shari. He's from Kenya, the mining engineering at UBC And he's working out full-time in the Canadian oil sands mining industry. Today, we're gonna dive into his background, his education, his work experiences as a co-op and his full-time work experience And I know a lot of you guys are from outside of Canada and want to know how to work in Canada So we're gonna dive all into that. So first of all Eric Shari, thank you so much for joining us today Bless up, bro. Thanks for having me, man So Eric, let's start all the way from the beginning. So you're from Kenya Can you talk to me about, you know, what that experience was like? I imagine like there's a high school equivalence where you have to, you know, study really hard And then send your application to universities like around the world and UBC was one of them Tell us about like what that experience was like of like applying to UBC from outside of Canada Yeah, man like for me, my best friend was the internet and That's how that's where I learned everything man because I'd never been to Canada before So I was just going off the UBC website seeing the pictures and you know Like for me when I was thinking about what to study like why I came to UBC is just a couple reasons The main one was mining. So I wanted to study mining So when I was in high school, I was looking at things I wanted to study I wanted to do engineering when I was looking at what type of engineering the most interesting to me was mining So I was like, well, where can I study mining in the world? And Canada was one of the top options that I'd go for, you know Just thinking out, you know wildly like if I could do this once, you know, go to a, you know, University of Broad while I'm alive I was like in the Canada, Australia. So and then Did you consider like U of T or McGill? I considered McGill I applied to McGill U of A and UBC because like at the same time like, you know Application fees are expensive. So you're not trying to apply it everywhere So those are the three I applied to and so I got into UBC and U of A and why I chose UBC I was actually about to choose U of A but I Chose UBC just because of the better weather from what people were telling me So, you know, I mean, and that's what the internet said like, you know, Edmonton is one of the coldest places and Vancouver is one of the least cold. So that's why I chose UBC And then when I started looking into it is just going off, you know, the Internet's hearsay And so it's a different experience if you've never been to the University. So for me, it was just like I Kind of trusted the process that if I filled in his application forms and I sent the money to this bank account that everything will work out And it did. Would you say Like the information you found on T Internet was was it like sufficient? Yeah, well one thing I'd say is like they like the University website. It's it's sufficient about the University But it's not really sufficient. It's it's a good place to start. I like to trust especially like Forums where people talk. Yeah, that's what I like to get. You know, they're the half of the story So you got a look to all your sources, you know what I mean? You got a if you find out someone who's been there or who has a brother or sister who's been there You try and reach out and ask questions So you don't rely on just one piece of information for sure You got to use Everything and then you make a judgment call, you know So there's always pros and cons with everywhere. So it's not like so if you only listen to one side of the story You don't get the full story. So yeah, I know but with all the info on the Internet It was all sufficient for me to I'd never been there to prove it for myself, but it was sufficient. Yeah Yeah, and you didn't have like any like family or friends in Canada yet, right? No, well, my brother was in In Canada at the time he started in Montreal and McGill. Okay, so But you know and I had never been there before though So from him he'd tell me from his experience has been to Vancouver Vancouver is better weather wise You know, he introduced me to some friends who had he actually had friends in UBC And I reached out and asked some questions He had friends in other, you know universities and asked them as well. So you got to be proactive You know what I mean? You don't know like, you know It's a big decision to leave your home country to go to a strange country. Yeah, you can't you can't be taking chances out here You just got a so fortunately if you you Everyone if you ask you can meet someone who knows what you're looking for. So like, you know, whether it's Through a friend or a friend if you ask people will connect you to someone who can help you so Yeah, gotta be proactive man. That's definitely good advice So when you first like landed in Canada, did you have to worry about housing or did you find housing like before you even? arrived in Canada So like for me, I chose to go the safest way the safest way is just to get housing to the uni so that way they handled everything So you'd pay and that was my plan like and that's a lot of people's plan as well, you know, at least your first year you stay somewhere that You know, you got a bill familiarity. So university is a safe space a safe space to start from you know I mean and then as you get more confident you can start exploring wider and wider So like my first two years I chose to be in university then my third year I moved down So when your university you don't worry about those kind of things they handle everything, you know I mean, there's a system in place But when you decide to move off campus or stay, you know in non-university residents Then you got to worry about those kind of things when like housing So that's a tougher way. A lot of people do it first year. You just leave off campus as well It's you know, I mean it depends on your comfort zone to be honest But for me coming from an international like, you know From living in my parents house and trying to go and live in the streets straight away like In a in a strange country, you know, I mean, I have no idea what to expect. So I chose the safest Housing guaranteed for first-year students. Yeah, housing is guaranteed for I want to say housing is guaranteed for first-year international students. Okay Domestic students is different Because I don't know if they can afford out they can guarantee housing for all the students But you be see like increases has a lot of housing. Yeah So I'd say for first-year international students, I'd say it's definitely guaranteed But then after first year, you know, they also understand that now second year is not guaranteed now You're you're on level playing with other people, right? Okay, so you came to Canada you got housing figured out academics wise Was there any like adjustments you have to make in terms of like how you studied How you approach courses because one you're going from, you know High school level or high school equivalent to university and you're also doing it at a different country Yeah, yeah, man. That's a good question because yeah, that's a fact man like coming from Kenya I had studied The British system, right? So it's all levels then a levels and even before that I had done the Kenyan system before I switched to British So I've been I've actually changed like curriculum once before, you know changing Curriculum systems before so coming to university was also a change in curriculum system like how they teach and you know The course material it's all like the course material might be the same, but how it's delivered is very different the number of exams the number of tests the you know The projects that count as part of the coursework It was different, but one thing is I had at least some good preparation because I did a levels which is like grade 12 and 13. So like here in Canada It reaches grade 12 then you go to uni, right? Yeah In the US they call it Correct me from Ron. Is it AP level? Yeah, it's like AP and there's like I did IB as well, but yeah, there's So you see IB is something I can relate to because that's IB1 and IB2 is like Equivalent to like the British offering like grade 12 and 13 like okay. This is the pre The training the fundamentals for universities. It's like pre-university, right? So that's the good thing with with those things Rather with that's doing that part of the curriculum because you can go from grade 11 to university straight away But if you do like your A levels, then you get like a foundation to university So for me to be quite honest first year was a joke I had too much fun, man. I barely studied in first year and I barely passed so And if I didn't have grade 12 and 13 I would have even struggled more. I would have had to study hard because it would have been a huge change in learning so honestly like And you know a lot of people who Talk about going to university people who asked me for advice. I say that like you know spend like those one or two years doing like a pre foundation courses different Especially international students is what I mean Um, and also like I got that advice from my brother and some of his friends They did IB instead of going straight to uni, you know, you do IB Or you do A levels you get a foundation. It prepares you for that curriculum change, you know When you go international And yeah, so that's what I did. So for me like honestly, I had too much fun in first year. I barely passed But you know what? I wouldn't have had it any other way then second year. It became serious Then I was like, okay, yo, yo now you got to study, right? You can't get away like with flukes, man So second year for sure, you know, pull up my socks and I did better third year, you know, even better and better But um, yeah, definitely like first year almost kicked my ass, man and uh Well, the results are a lot of people didn't make it but The result speaks for itself because you got like three internships. So let's jump into that Um, three mining internships. The first one was at tech And what was that role that you had at tech? So at tech I was Eight month work term. I was a survey student. I was a surveyor So I was in the survey department, which is part of the uh, the short range Mine department so, you know in tech like the surveyors are Employees of the company and they sit in the same offices as they engineers. So That's pretty much what I did for eight months. I was out in the field surveying, you know Was there any like mine? Data processing that you have to do or was it just purely field work? Yeah, yeah, there's data processing like, um, when you go out to pick up an ass built so we'd pick up ass builds in two ways either you use, you know, your um Your total station, you know and pick up toes and crests with, you know Laser shots, you know, I don't know if we get technical but I can get really technical but the other way was using 3d scanners And you know, then this the liner just does its thing And picks up the ass built then you go to the office as the survey It's your job now to translate that data from the survey instrument Into now like the CAD software for the engineers to use. So you know CAD Deliverable files like DXFs and you know surface files and Oh, so were you at tech like one of the coal operations or like Highland Valley? I was at Fording River. So that was the the largest surface Open pit metco mine. They had methodological coal So it's the biggest in the valley and it's right next to green hills and you keep going down You go to spirewood you get you come to elk view Lion Creek So they have they're concentrated in the elk valley with these coal mines And did you do your uh term over the winter because I imagine if it was over the winter would have been really cold, right? That's a fact bro. It was really cold Yeah, it was during the winter. I started in september And finished in april the next year. So I pretty much just got the end of the fall september october Dude by october. It's already winter And so you go to october to april. It's just winter, man. But the time I was leaving it was like kind of like spring But it was pretty winter. Yeah. Yeah, actually it was winter when I left man end of april Yeah, yeah, so it was uh, it was also a new experience for me Like, you know as a one thing I say for co-op um people are different for me My motto was adventure. You know, I've already come all the way from kenya So far away. What's a couple extra thousand kilometers, man? You know what I mean? I was like, well, you know I might as well just go explore So when I was applying for jobs, I was like whatever job I get I'll take it No excuses Whatever man So some jobs I couldn't take for example because they needed a canadian driver's license Those are the only jobs I couldn't take really The ones that required either you got to speak french or You need a canadian driver's license, but any other job was like I'll do it So this one was it was way outside of my comfort zone for sure Um, and the cold was one factor. I'm like, man, I thought Vancouver was cold I was trying to escape the cold now. I'm going to the coldest part of bc Um, so so it was good. You got that job, but didn't doesn't survey require you to drive like a pickup truck Yeah, so that's the thing on site Every mine from what I've learned from what my experience and maybe others are different But every mine site is private property. So in the mine They have their own driving school And you don't need an alberta government stamp To certify you as a Driver in the mine in the mine. They train you themselves if you pass the competency test They issue you Pretty much a driver's license But that's so For the mine. Yeah, exactly. So that's why and I had a driver's license I had a canyon driver's license. I could prove that I can drive. I can drive But I didn't have a canadian license So, um, because I was still holding on to my canyon license Now after I graduated, uh, as a student you can keep your Your national country's driver's license, but once you graduate and you're working you have to, um Transfer that to a canadian license and they do that by now Taking and cancelling your your international driver's license your canyon license So now I had to force that so when I go to Kenya now, I have a canadian driver's license And I don't remember from what allowed to drive there, but I still end up drove, you know driving but in a mine. It's different. It's it's their own property even a haul truck So I drove haul trucks as well. You know what I mean 797s 400 tonners And I I didn't have a canadian license at the time, man All you needed actually all you need is just to prove that you can drive And you can drive those big trucks as well So, um Yeah to answer your question Cool So, okay. Yeah, you talked about adventure. So you went you lived in bc Or like thank you for specifically you went to the interiors and then for the next co-op term you went to Ontario right with new months and how was that like yeah was a underground operation I think Yeah, that's right, bro. Um, it's actually before new month bought it It was actually gold corp right gold corp was a canadian company then new month bought that asset Well, they bought gold corp and so they got that asset as well. Yeah So yeah, I was there for eight months as well. It's in northern Ontario. It's a town called red lake population a few thousand um Unless I'm wrong I think it's in the tens of thousands But I was staying in a smaller part of red lake called balma town, which is where Now the mine is which is like 20 minutes away from the core of red lake, which is like, you know, it's it's kind of there's people there But in balma town, there's less people maybe a couple thousand literally if not less But that's where the mine is so, you know people who live there associated with the mine and uh, it's an underground gold mine It's a very it's a red lake has it's one of canada's most historic gold mines. I think it's a hundred and almost 50 years old today um, and they've been mining gold there for hundreds of I mean 150 years You know, and they still have lots of golds to go. It's like a rich deposit, man um, so it's very historic day and I worked there as I went there as a project coordinator. That was well my my Yeah, my job title was project coordinator But when I got there the projects I was supposed to be working on I was working with the chief surveyor So he was trialing a new way of capturing Mine as bills the underground gold mine Um, and what he was trying to do the project was pretty much just photogrammetry So instead of using like your total stations and going down into the underground Uh caverns and now you're setting up tripods You're you know playing with your bubble to get it level and uh, you know what I mean? You're putting on your total station. You're warming it up You're going through the checklist and then before you even start doing the job Then you got to do the job then that whole process can take you up to 30 minutes and mining safety is the number one For many mines and for safe mining you got it. It has to be safe. You get I mean for Profitable mining forgive me. It has to be safe You don't get away with like unsafe operations for a long time So one of the safety objectives is to have people the underground for as short time as possible In fact eliminate the need to go underground if you can You know what I mean? So technology helps with that So instead of now using total stations for setups you just go with your gopro And you just should have been you walk down you set up some control points For you know for the software later the photogrammetry software and says that's how you do your survey control You just set up some you know points so but you just use a gopro and you shoot a video and Imagine you can even use your cell phone You just shoot a video and then you export that video to the software and the software produces a 3d Model of the mine So that takes away that whole survey process of like using a total station, right? Or a 3d scanner Anyway, so I got there and this project was still in its infancy stages So there wasn't much work for me to do So I asked that I was working for the chief survey. So I was like, hey, can I just hang out with the survey is like I've done open pit surveying like I can help them. I know they need help I I see like they they're shorthand handed. You know what I mean? Maybe I can help so I was integrated in that team. So I got to do underground surveying as well Which is like a different ball game But I was yeah, so that's what I was doing project coordination and underground surveying Cool. So now you got like a nice mix of experience some coal mining surveying Uh, or sorry, red lake was gold or in copper or just gold Just gold just gold. Okay. So underground Serving and project management and then so that's already like 16 months of co-op and then you did another Third term eight months with suncore. Was it that's right, bro? Yeah, and what did you do at suncore? So suncore is working in the long range mine planning team So some long range mine planning for one of the assets in the in the in Fort McMurray But anyway, so that's what I was doing and that was long range planning. So and we're talking about 10 plus years Uh forward looking planning, right? I mean, that's a long ways out. So it's not as exciting as short range planning Um, so it was a good opportunity for me because like, you know now I've spent time in short range planning, you know in survey And you know in surveying you're shadowing and learning from also like the mine planet So you're in the short range team pretty much You're learning from other people just because you have one job title doesn't mean like you're there to do a job You're there to learn as much as you can. So take advantage you learn from everyone Um around you. So now I got to do long range planning then so when I was in university in my final year I was like, okay now I've gotten this experience I think I have an idea of what kind of jobs I can get when I graduate You know what I mean? I've seen what kind of jobs there out there at these companies. So now I can I'm you know, I'm in my final year and I'm thinking, you know, what did I enjoy what didn't I enjoy? And I was like, okay, I want to that's why it is, you know, when I was now applying for graduate jobs after I graduate I wasn't just applying for anything and everything, you know during co-op I was like, I'll apply for anything and everything whoever's going to pay me You know what I mean? Whoever who I'm going to learn from All of them are learning experiences. So it's like, who's the highest bidder? That's all that matters. Who's the highest bidder? It's gonna you know, I mean, but now after I graduate I'm like, okay now I know what jobs I like and what jobs I wouldn't like So let me know waste my time. So, you know, and For me, one thing I did like is the short range world Yeah, at least for me as an early career, you know, short range like It's fun, man. It's exciting. It's you hardly get bored. Yeah, it's a lot more fast-paced Yeah So before you even graduate one thing I want to ask about I actually get a lot of questions about like the financial aspects of tuition What programs did you have access to that was able to Help fund your tuition like student loan scholarships stuff like that. Can you dive a little bit deeper into those things? Yeah, for sure, man Like for me, especially like financial support was a big component to my survival at university man for international students Man, I don't know depending for some it's First of all for international students tuition is like grossly significant than domestic students. It makes sense to me I'm not complaining about that. I'm not trying to say domestic and international tuition should be the same. It shouldn't I understand, but it is expensive. Yeah So for example, just to give an idea like UBC, it was averaged. Let's just say 32 000 for my four years there Um, and I wasn't even just there for four years there for six years. So every year it's increasing So if you that and that's one of the disadvantages with co-op um That one of the disadvantages with co-op is you spend more time in university So you see a lot more by the time you're graduating you've paid a lot more A lot higher tuition than people who finished in the four years, you know, I mean, so Plus also even if you're in co-op, you're not enrolled in university But you're still paying for university to stay enrolled. You still have to pay Some student dues, you know what I mean? Yeah, paying for stuff that you never even know about or use So that's the game. That's the game if you want to stay you gotta You know, I mean you gotta pay the taxes. Yeah. Yeah, you gotta pay taxes man So even when you and you're also paying co-op fees Um, in fact, you know, that's how the co-op student program thrives. It's You pay taxes to them as well. You're like you're getting paid. Well, you know That's human and complaining. That's how human society is you gotta just Everyone's gotta, you know be fed Your success has gotta feed the community. That's that's all right. That's fair But anyway, um, so for me tuition was always a conversation. It was stress. Um, and so I Was seeking multiple sources of funding my tuition And as an international student, the thing is you're not eligible for government support like governments school fees not school fees, but rather subsidies or Rather government like Bursaries or grants, you know government funded Tuition kickbacks. You're not eligible for none of that So and UBC is a public university. So UBC can't give you a scholarship Or they can give you Now they give you entrance awards, but they don't give you like because it's government money. It's public money Public money doesn't fund international student tuition So that's pretty much it so but now UBC as a university also has an endowment fund from private donors So they also have private money. They have public money and they have private money. So the private money is what that one can fund international students and in the Program like in um faculty I was in applied science They get a they also get like, you know, everyone gets like a part of the budget Everyone has a budget that they can use money. Um, so the faculty of applied science, they had Scholarships from private donors for international students. So there was somewhere you have to be a Canadian there was somewhere As long as you pass this criteria, whether you're domestic or international You can qualify for it So those are the ones like I worked at earning and the like the ones I get I got So there's merit based and there's a need base, you know what I mean? So merit is like you did good in school academically. So you get a scholarship You're in the top percent of your class. So you get a scholarship So those are the ones I mostly relied on And there's others there's need based Need based is harder to prove need but there's also need based Um private money that they give international students, you know what I mean? So those are the options available And then also on the internet this private, you know companies that Have scholarships that you can apply for So, you know, it's not just the scholarships in university, but there's also like just international programs And you just go to them, you know an international company so Well, glad to hear there's a lot of like funding options for international students because Yeah, even as a domestic student myself like Yeah, just some of the fees were like pretty significant Yeah, for me, I was able to pay off my debt before I graduate But I imagine like for international students must be so much more harder Just because everything you guys are paying for is just like that much more expensive Yeah, I mean, um I I don't get into politics because like, you know for me, that's a that's not my lane But um, you know, there is a political angle to Being in university and I think nowadays What people are echoing when people talk about oh so and so didn't even graduate dropped out of uni and became a billion there For example, it's I think the only thing that's being echoed is You really now that you just got to Think harder about why you want to go to university Like is it worth it? You do the math you do the math and you're like, is it worth it? What you want to do? Do you even know what you want to do? You know first of all You got to know what you want to do. That's what it comes down to as an international student or not even international You're right. Just any student going to uni Whether international or domestic as long as it's not free You really should know what you're going to do there This country's where it's free. It's like man, you can just go But if it's not free then you ask yourself, what am I going to do there? And if is it worth the money, it's going to cost, you know what I mean? So yeah, no, definitely It's an investment that you want to think about carefully before you actually put the money in Before we move on to the graduate portion. Is there anything else you want to talk about? Like your university experiences academic experiences or co-op experiences Yeah, um Anything people should know about like what makes UBC special? Um, what makes UBC special? I just say like Yeah, I'm here with my roommate by the way. My roommate also went to UBC All right, um Yeah, yeah, we met after the fact but uh, he also went to UBC Um, but anyway, one thing I'd say about UBC is is just that man like opportunities Opportunities is one of the best things and it's not just UBC any university one thing I learned wherever you go. There's opportunities Um, and just take advantage of the opportunity while you're in university In relation to co-op since you know this conversation also is about that is Like for international students for any students. I wouldn't even say international any students like it's best to Be prepared for graduation. Don't wait till you graduate to be to start thinking about graduation. What job you want to do? um, you know what I mean like Co-op is a good way. Like I said, I was able to learn what's out there What I like what I don't like And you know what I mean you have that bargaining power And you learn those skills that prepare you like I said going from High school to university is a it's a huge step in you know aptitude In aptitude learning, you know what I mean like it's for For a student if you've been a student you've gone from grade one to you know university Now you should you look at co-op is like that extra foundation you need before you graduate It prepares you for what's out there And then you'll know whether you're going to waste your time or not studying this thing So I I encourage people to just Go on co-op in whatever country you are. There's different equivalents. Just get that industry experience where you have a chance, you know Yeah, I totally agree as well. Okay, so Um, you graduate you're now reaching graduation. You did like 24 months of co-op um, but then you went to imperial oil as a heavy equipment operator And what was that like? Yeah, no, actually. So I was hired on as When I was applying for the job it was a it's just new new graduate engineer Okay, you know, I mean recently graduated engineer. That was the job the job title was just new hire engineer Literally, so what happens is they just hire, uh, you know, they put that job posting out all the engineers new hire You know recently graduated engineers Or recent soon to graduate engineers apply and then once they've hired the number of people they need Then they start allocating job roles. So that's how it works at this company. So when I applied I was just applying for soon to graduate engineer job So went through the whole process took like six months and So by the time I was getting that by the time my start date was coming I was told that okay, your job is now going to be Engineer in operations is what they called it. So pretty much they have a program a new program. They're testing it out they're putting like a number of engineers for through like embedding you in like the upstream production teams so like the you know, the the shovel teams and the Mind services teams, uh, you know the production teams the plant team the tailings team Operations the embedding engineers in operations, you know, I mean because engineers are in the technical team But now they're sending them into the operations team where the Field units are working so they can learn from them From the shovels from the trucks from the dozers The graders, you know, I mean the mind services teams the tailings operations teams And then you take all that then you go into your engineering role and You know add value with that information So that's what the program was and so that's why when I joined for the first 10 months Yeah, I was a heavy equipment operator. I was driving a 797 haul truck Which is uh among the largest in the world. It's not the largest Anymore, but it's among the largest and the best You know what I mean caterpillar? Yeah big truck Um, yeah, so you mentioned 10 months, but uh, did the program specify that was 10 months? Or was it did it just happen to be 10 months? Yeah, it just happened to be 10 months. There was um Well, it's it had specified that So they had a schedule of different roles That I needed to go through before getting into my engineering position So, um, even if it hadn't specified 10 months it took up to 10 months to go through a The the process of being in production. So it was pretty much three seasons. So I spent four winter And spring in the in the team, you know Uh So that's pretty much like a four-year cycle to see what it's like, you know Yeah, I think then the reason it also took 10 10 months It's just because the company was also COVID when COVID hit Everything was in disarray. So I started working like in the middle of COVID like You know, I signed the final contract right literally the week before COVID. I was in Calgary You know, everyone knows there was a specific time in like February when COVID hits So February 2020 so just a week before that I was in Calgary and So I got hired right before COVID if COVID had hit any sooner. I probably might not have gotten You know, I mean Blessed man, it was just very fortunate, you know blessed So yeah, so that so that happened And so when I was joined the company, it was just a disarray. I didn't know it was going to be 10 months But it took a long time for things to process And people to process there was a lot of restructuring So by the time I even my I went through different supervisors, but Um, I even cut short that program. It was supposed to be like 12 months, but it ended up just being, you know, 10 months Um, what was I going to ask? Anyways, we'll move on. Um, so after the 10 months you became a you work you transferred to the reclamation department um What was that experience like Or first of all, did you have to apply to it? Um, or did it just automatically transfer you to um that position So the the position I was transferred into is the title is water and reclamation planner So pretty much on I'm a short to mid-range planner for the water and reclamation team. So the water team Is is separate from the reclamation team. They're both in Calgary Um, so I was the water and reclamation I am the water and reclamation planner someone both teams water and reclamation On site. So I'm the only person from both teams on site So that's why I'm like split between the two the two teams needed someone on site And this position is new and it was just formed to because of that gap in the In in, you know in both teams So it's a new role and um So I got transferred it it popped up and you know, they had to cut cut short my um Training or rather my period in operation so I can start that role Because they were just they were aching they needed someone So they just pulled us. Yeah the business needs like yeah, so they cut short the program so we could myself and The other you know person that made it Through that in the beginning we were four And then cove it and people's personal decisions. We ended up being two of us who finished The program. Um, so we both got that role Rotating because we're on different shift rotations. So we're both in the same role Gotcha. I just remember would you get this info? Did you get it from my linkedin? Yeah, I looked at looked at your linkedin. I gotta be prepared So I know how to I even forgot that I might have already updated that on linkedin man, but Nice one investigator. Yeah, I just remembered. Um, what I wanted to say earlier. Um, basically just for the viewers but um At least for oil science company. I know this is more Common now we're like for new grad EITs that they'll start them off on like haul track or like, um operations first Um before they get transferred into technical department. So haul tracks or whatever like maybe even though I think it's mainly haul tracks, but then they do that first For I think roughly around a year before they get moved into like short-range planning or mid-range whatever it may be So just for note for the viewers out there Um, the other question actually if if I can even add on top of that man So for me So I've told you about my co-op experience, right? Yeah during my co-op experience Um, I didn't have this opportunity. This is one opportunity that I was like, I wish I had when I was graduating. I was I was like, I wish I had this opportunity I found out I'll be an engineering operations literally two weeks before I started the job So the whole time I thought I was just going straight into the engineering team in Calgary No, okay. I knew I was going to be on site, but I didn't I thought it was just going to be an engineering job on site straight away So when I graduated I was like, you know, if there was one opportunity I wish I had it was like in operations as a haul truck driver or you know what I mean like As a dozer operator or you know in driving some equipment to learn in the field, you know, I mean So this was a really good opportunity that popped up after the fact and I'm like If I could I would have even stayed longer because other companies Or maybe not longer, but other companies from what I hear they even put Fresh engineers in like dozers bulldozers Maybe even a grader an excavator. You know what I mean? Just something small because those those are big toys as well You have to have years of experience To drive the bigger ones, but the smaller ones that you can just train someone You know quickly and they can do it So That was a good opportunity and man, you're like from what I from my own experience If you have that opportunity to like do a co-op where you're driving a truck or driving some piece of equipment Take advantage of that man Because you're not going to be doing that. You're an engineer. You're not going to get that chance again But it helps you relate very well with those operators in the field And with that equipment capability It helps in your planning decisions in your plan when you're planning work You understand how that thing works How long it will take to do this if you can even be able to hit this design as per The specs you've given So it's good experience. You you don't have to but it's good experience For sure 100% agree It's okay. I think we've covered almost everything went through your background in kenya your education co-op So your new grad experiences Actually, one thing I want to touch on is you mentioned you worked on site. You also mentioned shift work Um, what were the shifts that you were working on and how was that experience like? Yeah, um, so for example, right now what I'm working is 14 days on 14 days so So for 14 days, um, you know, they pay for your flight from Um in the Calgary or Edmonton like the company I'm at. There's a flight hub So from here I get on a plane I go somewhere for 14 days and then I come back home And then for I'm home for 14 days. So There's different schedules Out there in the industry the seven and seven this 10 and 10 Um, like when I was a co-op student at tech I did four and three So you work four days Like pretty much like 12 hour shifts and then you get three days off. So three day weekend um And it's that 12 hour shift that when you do the math compared to someone doing a nine or five on eight to four You're doing the equivalent of hours for those days. You know what I mean? So you're pretty much working more less the same number of hours if not slightly more In a in a month then someone else who's doing Monday to Friday Really? um, so yeah, and so Were you doing a 12 hour days for your seven and seven or sorry 14 14 14 14 and 14 is 12 hours days. Yeah, so you do 14 times 12 You know, uh quick math. I think it's 169 out of 96 hours 169 maybe And that's like if you do eight eight to five someone who works Monday to Friday In the office today. We can it's more or less the same hours But because you're doing it for 12 hours 14 days straight. It's like Right And then you get 14 days off So that's the math when I was in tech I was saying I did four three when I was in red lake. I did four four Um, so different companies have different ones um Yeah, so Good to know good to know I only did I only ever did the uh standard five and two so never really had a chance to experience shift work um, yeah, okay, so I think we've covered almost Pretty much everything, but uh, was there anything else that I was missing that you want to talk about? Stuff that you want to share with the audience Yeah, I was gonna like one thing I can't say, you know, like I I said like when before you graduate You know, if you can get industry experience, you know, one thing I'd say after you graduate um, you know for me honestly co-op Gave me an advantage it gave me an advantage because I really had a resume that was appealing to the companies I was applying to So, you know at the end of the day You know when you graduate it's tough co-op gives you not even just co-op It's not just co-op. It's industry experience If you have something on your resume that says you work for A company similar to the one you're trying to apply to Uh as an intern, uh, they take that seriously um, so You have a better opportunity You have a better competitive edge than other people who haven't had industry experience So at the end of the day what I was going to say is okay, if you don't get the job you want don't don't Don't let that get you down Just take any job Okay, take any job and just start somewhere Okay Don't wait for facebook to eat you back Or Oh for tesla like just take any job take any job Just build a resume and then learn the skills and then these opportunities opportunities will always be there But you got to be prepared So, you know, it's those those two combinations of opportunity and preparation you got to be prepared So I was you know prepared and that's why I said well, I could pick and choose which job I want to do for real I actually had that opportunity To add some offers and I picked and choose what I want Pick picked and chose what I wanted to do But if you don't have that opportunity, man, just take any job And then be do the best you can at it and these opportunities will pop up. Boom. You have a resume Um now you can start picking and choosing what jobs you want. You can start like negotiating your pay And other work terms, you know what I mean? So I was going to say that a lot of people would rather like just think, you know, let me just wait Till a job opening pops up one that I want one that I want to do no get out of your comfort zone Do one that you need to do, you know, not just one that you want to do Yeah, very good advice that I would echo as well So what's the next for you Eric like career wise? Um, where do you think you're headed down? My initial plan when I came to, you know A vision I've had and a plan I've had that I'm still working towards is I want to I came to Canada so I can learn from the best I want to learn from the best mining companies in the world, but I want to take this The knowledge and the experience I gain I want to import that to Kenya And work on the mining industry there because that's my home, man So I definitely want to go back home. I love it and uh, there's a lot of room for development And where this room for development is room to make money. So it's kind of selfish as well, man I want to go and make a lot of money So you're going to help a lot of other people make money Yeah, yeah, that's I think you make money if you're making money the right way It's because you're adding value. Yeah, you're either selling a product or service which people need So I mean for me, there's a lot I see a lot of need in because like even in Kenya right now My dad passed on a business to the family for We train engineers and you know university students and professional engineers and even just graduate engineers. We train them in CAD and BIM software in Kenya So we have training schools. We sell software. We resell software to companies and individuals. We train them And not only that but for me my vision for that company is to and I've already started is Also like upselling technology. So things like drones for survey That's like something it's a concept we're selling and implementing for customers in Kenya So for me, that's the vision is to you know, I want to go back to Kenya and work in building the mining industry there But also like just building the engineering industry, you know what I mean? In the private sector So that's my goal when I don't know when it's it's a long-term plan So I had a 10-year plan it's within the 10-year plan But to now and then I'm out here. I work at a good company So I want to get as much experience as I can I can see different positions that I want to Be in that will help me see that bigger vision of going back to Kenya So, you know, it's a good company when you find somewhere, you know, something I read somewhere is Grow where you're planted and we live like I mean Maybe I mean, I don't know I haven't lived long enough to say conclusively But in every economy, there's ups and downs and so like right now in the industry a man There's a lot of attrition. You have a lot of engineers living the Allsons Or rather living their companies for whatever reason, you know better opportunities I think that's the only reason you're gonna leave a company, right? Better opportunity or peace of mind. It's one of the two either it's for your health or for your world You know, that's good Yeah, those are the reasons people really I think leave companies So mental health is a part of the health, you know what I mean? So But grow where you're planted, you know what I mean? You don't have to you know, if Like, you know, you don't you don't want to like Be so concrete in your career plans to miss opportunities for achieving that same And by a different means, you know what I mean? So maybe you want to be CEO of a company But that doesn't mean you don't have to go through the foundational jobs to get there, you know what I mean? So grow where you're planted and then learn the most so like in in from my The people last yourself with the company man and my roommate we talk about this his company as well because it's in the Allsons You know, you work with a lot of experienced people And people are like, you know, three years three to four years Max in a row, you know in three to four years, you've learned something, you know what I mean? So pretty much it's like, yeah, don't don't just do something for a year And then you want to do something else, you know what I mean? Take your time three to four years Is that's also an average I could go with three to four years in a row It's pretty it's good for experience if you're gonna do like three four roles. That's already 10 years experience You know what I mean? You're an expert That's that's some advice I've learned and I'd pass on for sure to other people Well, Eric, it's been almost an hour of and I just want to thank you so much for sharing all the value bombs here Lots of good advice and just thank you so much for sharing your experiences To all the prospective viewers and prospective mining engineers One last thing feel free to plug yourselves on your All your socials if if people want to find more about you Yeah, for sure, man. Uh, first of all, thank you so much Kwan. Um We've been meaning to do this. I'm like, this is really cool, man. Like I like mining. Um, I like mining Talking mining, you know mining money. It all sounds the same But it's it's like they're both exciting But um, this is a really dope podcast and uh, you know, thanks for having me And you know one thing I want to say is um For me, I also like to tell people like, you know, okay, you know career doesn't have to be one thing Okay, you want to be a mining don't don't be defined by your job, man You know be someone in life do other things. So like for me like for you you're doing this podcast, you know, just you're a mining engineer, right? Yeah So you're you're not just That's not who you are. That's what you do. But like who you are you see your kwan you also do this podcast So for me also like I do other things besides the mining And one thing I do is music. That's what I'm into So I'm going to plug the music as well the afrolution Yeah, so it's that afrolution as two separate words the And afrolution afro L-u-t-i-o-n so I make music I think of it as poetic rap So check it out. Um, I have a youtube page. I'm on spotify. I'm on apple music. Whatever Music platform you use to stream your music Uh, bless up. Check it out. Check out my ig same thing that afrolution afrolution I'm sure kwan's gonna put it in the description. Whatever you post this And um, yeah, man, check me out. Hit me up instagram facebook if you have any questions linkedin eric showery So that's our first name dot, you know first name last name c a u r i So check me out and let's connect man, you know, let's network I like to learn from people. So You know, I'd love to learn from other people and uh, who knows man, we might do a part two, you know Next time I'll interview you man, because like I don't know if you you tell your story in your interview But you haven't been interviewed, you know, so Love to hear your story, man Awesome. Well, thank you so much eric. Um, and I'll stop the recording here