 Oh my god, it's keep filming dude. Is that a pig's head? Is that a piglet? Is that a lamb or a piglet? It's a pig, medium size. Yeah, and that's the ribs on top. People eat that part of it, or that's just for display, is that smoking? No, that's ribs, so it's baby back ribs and belly ribs together. It looks like a suckling pig though, it's really small. It's medium size, so a suckler would be 10 to 12 kilos, this is 26. I know why they're six months in slaughter aren't they? This one's about five and a half. There's a younger middleweight, they're kind of like a pug. It's like a dog eh? Yeah. You think that looks like a dog? You think that looks like a toad? No. Like a Stafford shed, do you have a staff? No. And be out of those stuffies? No. Yeah, it's a bit of a controversial one. Have people been saying anything about that? I just saw a woman behind you, horrified. We had the whole pig on there earlier today. The whole pig? Yeah, we obviously had him and then we boned the whole thing out, so it was like a pocetta all the way through with the head on the end and the legs of the other end. And we stuffed it with fennel, chili, white wine, like classic Italian. You could just slice right through it. Like a roast, but a whole roast with all the trimming, that people don't see, eh? Exactly. That turns people off seeing a head like that, eh? It does, but it turns the kind of people we want are the ones that love it and accept that animals make meat. Animals are being killed in that. Every sausage you buy in a supermarket had a head at one point and we've just got the head on the barbeque. Do you think people are disconnected from the process, sir? Most people are disconnected, eh? That's one of the big problems right now. We saw the pig ribs, actually. No, the head. What, the ribs? No, there's like a big skull. It's quite different from the cranium of a dog. Have you seen a normal pig skull? Yeah. This is a rare breed. Yeah, I worked on an organic farm in Canada, so I worked on butchering up the pig. As you butchered the pigs on the farm, or? Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you can't be responsible enough to accept the fact you're eating an animal, then almost embrace that and make sure, and then obviously then you start embracing it, and then you start looking into where the animal's from and you start being responsible for the life of the animal that creates the meat you eat. If you're not going to be responsible for that, and if you're just going to turn a blind eye to it, then that's how the factory farming and all of the massive industrial meat industry is happening. They get away with what they get away with, because no one wants to look. No one looks into it. No one wants to see it. Yeah. The classic Ross Cobb cross chicken that you have now is like meat on legs. They've got horrendous, every single statistic about these chickens is wrong. They're breaking their legs. They can't support their weight. They can't stand up. Six weeks old and they're ready for slaughter. They're still chicks. They're really similar to dogs, are they, pigs? I guess in terms of, like, the reason of lead intelligence, yeah. Interesting. If that was a dog, though, people would be freaking out, eh? That was a dog. Yeah, it's a cultural difference, but I don't suppose I'd be massively against eating a dog if it was raised in the right way. But people don't question it. People like, people want to peek and get their answer they want. They go, fantastic. Yeah, well, I'm good. They don't want to know, right? And they've got their peace of mind. They don't want to see that. No, but we... Do you reckon... Every animal slaughtered in the world's got a head. Yeah, I know. So they're ignorant to where their food's coming from and if they saw a slaughterhouse they'd be probably turned off for. Linda McCartney said if slaughterhouses had glass walls, they'd have glass walls with all the vegetarian, but I'd like to think that people who are responsible enough for the meat they're eating and the meat that they're supporting wouldn't be like that because they understand exactly where it's... What about kids and stuff? Do you think they would want to eat like ham sandwiches if they seen like pig-spit little baby piglets getting slaughtered? I don't think... I think it's awful that the default option for every human being in the world is to eat terrible meat. And it takes quite a lot to either start really looking into it and picking the right meat for yourself or all going vegetarian or going vegan. That's the decision. What's this one? I thought that said meat, fire, but it says from carcass to grill. Rare breed. Do you think everyone can eat this high-end rare breed? Do you think that's sustainable for the population? That's where you got to look into carcass balance. So 100 years ago, that was the only option because the factory farming wasn't invented. World War I, World War II invented factory farming. Why do they invent factory farming? To feed the population. To meet demand. The classic quote is they called it a necessary evil. When a necessary evil isn't necessary anymore, what's left? So you agree we don't need to eat meat to be healthy or to thrive as a species or...? No, I think you look at humans are obviously the development of what we are today through eating meat and obviously we've adapted to eating cooked meat since and there's a lot of arguments to say cooking is what made us human to set us apart, you know. Cooking like all different types of food just increased our calorie content, didn't it? Yeah, yeah. And we're cooking meat and then we shorten our intestines so we can stand up straight, things like that, our brains develop more because we're spending less of our energy on digesting raw meat. And raw vegetables as well, like... We weren't just meat eaters, were we? No, we're obviously omnivores. You believe that we need to eat meat as a species or do you think it's... because we obviously need factories to meet the demand for 7 billion people, don't we? Otherwise we just logistically couldn't, could we? Could we grow enough grass-fed beef for the whole population on Earth? I think then you've got to look at carcass balance so if everyone's chicken breast and rib eye steak then no, you can't do it. What about pork in the UK? It's like 90% of pigs are factory-farmed, aren't they? In the UK? I don't think so. I thought in the recession a lot of fashion farms shut down because there were such fine margins. And we have a lot of outdoor rear pork. No, really. Very rarely in the UK. 90%. Just check that out, bro. I love looking into it and love reading up on it. But it's just like if we've got 66 million people in the UK we've got to meet the demand of flesh somehow to them and do you think... how is that possible? Eat better meat less often. Because of the obvious answer. Eat less, yeah. You don't need to eat meat every day. You don't need to eat meat every meal. If you're going to eat meat you've got to choose a sustainable ethical option with you. Have you ever killed an animal yourself? Do you kill your own animals? No, I work for a farm in North Yorkshire. I'm a butcher. I don't slaughter them. I don't slaughter them myself. It's very hard to get into an abattoir especially even for workers' grants. I've been in one. Have you? Yeah, they gave me a tour. So they have to go into the centre of the skull with that, yeah? Right here? You can show it on my head. That's okay. So it would be about here? Yeah, she was like the most high-end abattoir in the UK. But she shut down, she lost business because people just didn't want to pay that much. So humane dog meat, would you eat it? Yeah, it's not especially widely available. Would you kill the dog? Yeah, I mean if I was going to eat it I think I would, yeah. I've killed animals before that I want to eat. What if you had a different option, would you still kill the dog? A different option in what sense? Would you kill it out of a survival or just kill it because you wanted to taste it and just eat them? Yeah. Do you need a specific reason to do it or would you just do it because of... I don't really foresee a survival of a situation where you've got a dog presenting. Yeah, but I can't see a bolt thing in the middle of that. They wouldn't have bolted this pig. Do you reckon gas chamber? No, it's electric stun. Electric stun and stab, yeah. Electric, yeah, electric stun. They can't bolt it, mate, because they're just like... They're heads too small and bolted. Yeah, it shatters their brain. They make a massive mess, so... Boltgun's obviously normally for cattle. Yeah, cows. For lambs and sheep, for lambs and pigs and sheep and mutton. Stun and stab. Have you seen gas chambers before? The third of the pigs in the UK are gas chambered. Have you been to the... To stun them. Yeah, so, yeah, CO2 stunning. There's one in Manchester. I haven't seen him in person. Crazy. Yeah, mate. Honestly, you're one of the people who changed me completely. I welcome over to and talk to you. What's your name, brother? I can't believe I've just seen you. I've been watching you for the last two years. Really? I think you've changed my life, honestly. Really? What's your name, dude? Liam. South Wales, honestly. South Wales. Yeah, I've been watching you on TV, watching you on YouTube, I think you've published, mate. You're a legend. Let's have a photo. You are a legend, mate. Because I guess they can stun more. Yeah. Like, because they can chuck three or four in the chamber and they lower them down. You know, the thrashing that, you know, pigs in gas chambers. I'll show you. There's a couple of guys in Australia. Left cameras in their A. So they go in that. It's like a quarter gondola. It's like a big ferris wheel. And they lower them down. Yeah, because they have heavier gas. And the gas is down the bottom, yeah. Yeah. And when they hit it, they just start losing it. Yeah. And sometimes they rip their legs off in there because they're just trying to get an escape at the bottom. So the guy comes and cleans all the trodders out. Are you a vegan now? Like, I would say 99.9% only because if I'm drunk, I sometimes make a couple of mistakes. I'm like flat out. Apart from that, when I'm not drinking, I make stupid mistakes. What do you mean by mistakes? What is it? So I may end up, I don't know, I have cheese and chips or something crap like that. Cheese and chips and like... Yeah, but 99.9%... But in your heart, you believe in the principle of anti-violence. Oh yeah, 100%. Yeah. So you're, you believe in the philosophy, so you're a vegan that way. I'm absolutely 100%. And I'm trying constantly on the WhatsApp group with the boys. Constantly trying to push it. I get drunk and up here and there, and I grab some chips and not thinking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But 99.9% of the time, flat out. But trying to change the minds of my friends. Hard, hard work. That's the difficult thing. On the WhatsApp group, the boys, none of them, none of them are having it at all. Just showing my channel? Yeah. I've made diet and then date them with all your videos. The same as no Dr. Greger. Greger, yeah. Nutrition, but all that. Because you'd be getting in that health argument with the May protein and... All the time, mate. All the time. People need to be more aware of what they're putting, they're just mindlessly consuming without knowing the implications. It shouldn't be the default to eat bad meat. It should be... It should be the default to eat normal meat, like our grandparents and grand-grandparents, like great-grandparents, eh? And factory farmers, well, obviously shouldn't exist. You want a world without factory farming. Is that because of ethical reasons or just because the bad quality of produce? Ethical reasons. Ethical reasons. I think it's awful. Like... What's awful about it? Factory farming. Factory farming. Like what? The animal welfare. Just... The... I think one of the worst problems with it is how natural instincts are bred out of animals. Yeah. You look at chickens, they don't even... they don't even know what it is to be a chicken anymore. You look at how ancient Greeks were about chickens, they were the most proud maternal animals in the whole world, and now... They can't exhibit natural behavior and stuff like that. No, it's just five freedoms, so... If an animal can't exhibit the five freedoms, then... What are they? Freedom to express natural behavior, freedom of... move... Movement, bodily autonomy? Yeah. Two things that changed me. My daughter was born, and her... her favorite toy was a pepper pig toy. Yeah. So then you... I'd seen you making connections with like animals, you're saying a favorite toy is a pig. Yeah. But yet you're eating bacon, it don't make sense. Yeah. What the hell is that about? Yeah. And also I got a bulldog, and he grunts like a pig. Oh my God. So between my daughter who loves pigs, he grunts like a pig. You start to think, hold on, this is the same right here, that you're paying for pigs to be killed, but then your daughter loves a pig, and the dog is like a pig. It's like, they still make sense at all. Brother, have you seen this? So these are ex-dairy cows, they're cooking on the grill. I know, I know. Come over here. This conversation here about the pig dog, I want you to tell me what this pig looks like. Because I was like, dude, this pig looks like a dog. Over here. I'll show you. Bodily autonomy is an interesting one though. Like the freedom to have liberty over your own body and not be enslaved and things like that. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. Because it's interesting how being against factory farming, like a lot of people are morally against it, but where's most of the meat coming from? So most people are consuming factory farm flesh, but they're morally against it. They're in their mind. I don't know, I think a lot of those people don't even think about it, they don't even want to think about it. Here. Do you reckon this doesn't look like, it doesn't look like a pig, does it? It looks like a dog. It looks, it looks like an animal. So it looks terribly, very bad. Would you ever think of eating a plant-based diet? Yeah. Yeah. So I always think if I can't get hold of the meat that I know I can source and I know it's from it, I know it's had a good life and it's lived longer because it's a rare breed. What about death, dude? The life is one thing, but what about the murder of the death, the killing, the stabbing, the shocking, that's not an issue for you? You look at different arguments. So, what I think is, it's what he ferni wins because of the trade-off, so you've given him a predispatory life and they've lived a very happy life. Six months? Well, it obviously depends on the breed and the species. It's interesting because we'd need a survival situation to kill and eat a dog, but we don't need survival situations to kill and eat these animals. I understand what you're doing. You're trying to compare a pig with a dog and then trying to see what's the difference in the logical way. And even in looks, I beef this 8, 9, 10 years old compared to under 30 months, which is a normal life. Do you think that then justifies killing him? You said we can be healthy and we know we can eat plant-based and you know that that can be viable too. Do you think that's the most ethical decision? I think humans, the world will never go completely vegan, so I think it's best to push a much better way of eating meat and then trying to persuade people that don't eat meat that way to change that way to then increase animal welfare, keep their breeds alive and do all this stuff. Do you think this looks like a pig or a dog? A pig. A pig? But the nose is kind of like, you know pigs' noses are usually wide. It's like really like a like a snappy. Do you think a snappy is here? Like a snappy? A snappy. Yeah, it looks like a snappy. So it's so interesting how different culture dictates which animals are food and which are to be cared for, but there's really no moral difference when you look at them intrinsically like within them. Yeah, I think that's fair enough. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. Nice talking to you mate, eh? Take care. I'll give you this card dude because we do this thing, it's on Facebook, it's called the Vegan Challenge. It's done 22 days. It's free. You can give yourself, see how you go, see if you can complete it. Thanks. Cheers brother. That's Land of Hope and Glory. That was all filmed recently in the UK inside farms and avatars. All those statistics that I told you, they're there on that page and you can verify them if you want. Thank you. No worries brother, take care. I don't know how you could not look at that skull and not see a dog. It looks exactly like a snappy, like a little pit bull. Kind of looks like my dog Nugget's head, my brother's dog. Let's go into the dirty vegan and ask him, are we allowed to, we'll see what they say. We might as well do. Nah, he just said I can't interview people. He's our friend. Yeah, I'm the one who's kicked out of that festival.