 But I'm curious for you guys, what was your relationship with divorce growing up? And what was your idea of divorce before you got married? Man, our relationship took so many twists and turns and just kind of like how it was raised. So I was raised very like the man's the head of the household, that was our dynamic. And my mom was very submissive to that and she allowed a lot of that. And she instilled in all of us that you need a man, like you always need a man to protect you. And as much as I hated it, there were certain decisions that I would make that I'm like, fuck, like I'm turning into that. So when him and when Bart and I got together, I really wanted to support him and support his goals and stuff and I really did lose myself in a lot of that because I wanted to build, you know, his dreams and his vision. And then after a while I'm like, holy shit, I'm not happy in this relationship because our relationship started really suffering. And then I want to say like in 2016 when our relationship really got bad, like we weren't being intimate. We really, I at least I can only speak for myself. Like I would look at him and I knew I loved him but I just really hated him and I really despised him. And I didn't want to be intimate with him. I didn't want to be romantic with him, but divorce was never an idea in my head. Like it was never anything I ever thought about. It was never even real. Like I knew other people did that and other families and my friends came from that environment but I just didn't know how to wrap my brain around it. So during that time when you were like, I don't like myself, I don't like you, I don't like what we share, that wasn't a word that you were like, this is the solution? No, never. And that was probably really unhealthy. You know, that probably added to more of the shit that I was feeling. You never threw the D word at me? Never. During our fights? You did that. Every single time. Catch this single fucking time, yeah. What about for you? So my parents were divorced. They got divorced when I was six. And I just leading up to that, there are fights all the time, people throwing shit all over the place, them yelling, cussing and all that. So that was, I guess the norm to me. But when I got into a relationship and I always told myself if I marry someone, or if I dedicate myself to someone, I never ever want to get divorced because I know the effects of it. Like so me growing up as a- Interesting, why? I thought you would have thought it would better. If your parents were throwing stuff, weren't you happy when they broke up? Well, I also think, you know, when there's a, I feel like there's boundaries within yourself and within the relationship. And as I got older, I just saw them as not being able to control their emotions or manage them in a healthy way. So it just comes out in unhealthy ways. So to me, I think the divorce happened because you have two idiots like trying to like fix a car. You know, people are gonna break a window, throw a wrench because they're just dumb. And so for me, I'm like, I think I'm better educated. I've learned a lot from watching them. So if we ever get married, I never want to get divorced. But of course, when we were in that period where we hated each other, I did throw the D word around because in my opinion, she was behaving in a way where I felt like she wanted to do it. So I'm like, even though you're not saying the word, I'm like, yeah, if you're not saying, it doesn't matter if you're not saying the word. If you're being the biggest bitch in the world right now or for the last like year, I think you want it. So you might as well just say it. So I did throw the word around, but I think at the same time- Because you felt like you would be better on the other side, but because you felt like it's what she wanted to be better on the other side. Yes, because I never really believe in divorce. Just also because like, kind of like in like the old school karate kid, like Mr. Miyagi, he makes him like paint a fence, right? And he hates painting the fence, but then he paints the fence enough to understand, oh shit, this is actually helping me. And now he loves to paint the fence because it helps him in karate. I feel like a lot of things in life are like that. It's really difficult. You don't understand why you can't wrap your brain around it. And if you quit, like all the fruits of your labor are actually on the other side. So unless you've completely exhausted, I don't think you should pull the plug on anything, especially if there is not like actual physical damage. Like if she's beating my ass every day, if I'm beating her ass every day, it's like actually straight up abusive, get the fuck out of there, you know? But if it's just our use of language and our lack of empathy, like to me it was very salvageable. And I just knew that at least with me and her in this meantime, we might be stuck in the trenches and it fucking sucks ass and it might seem hopeless. But if she's willing to fight on, I'm willing to fight on. And let's see if we can, you know, get over this giant obstacle and get to where we really want to be. So I mean, that the relationship still takes two. Cause if she was like, I'm fucking out, there's nothing I can do, you know? I'm like, all my, all of my wants aren't applicable. Cause then now it's just marriage rape, you know? I'm like, we're married no matter what, you know? That's my wife over there. She's there with like a new family. Like that, that wouldn't work out. Like technically, I think anything, anybody under 50 is young. And to be able to make like a decision at a 20 or a 30 year old, that when you're 80 is going to go, good job. That's the tough part. Like I'm always talking, like we're just talking about how, like how many conversations do we have with ourselves as like a 30 year old talking to my 80 year old and making sure I'm hooking up the 80 year old self. And he's like, you know, when you're 30, you were smart. You weren't a dumb ass, you know? And that's, that's the tough part. But when you said, yes, you said, yes, being like my 80 year old self is going to be 80 with this person. Yes, for me, yeah. I remember somebody described that, their marriage to me like that, like year one was great, year two was okay, year three got kind of rocky, year four, five and six were terrible, but years seven through 12 were bliss. I'm like, do I have four, five and six in me? Like that's a long time to be miserable, but you know, you go to university and you may not necessarily enjoy the four years that you're there, but you come out of this with an experience that can hopefully enrich the rest of your life. And so maybe there are marriage universities, but it's tricky because I still have the programming from my parents of like, if it's not working for you, you can always leave. And I wonder about that because. And you're your own professor. Yes. That's the tough part where like, you might be in the fucking thick of your relationship. Not only are you your own professor, you're also your own student. So like maybe what you really need to get past this is actually more homework, but as your own professor, I'm like, man, fuck homework. You know, cause maybe what really needs to happen is both of us just get on our knees and really apologize to each other whether we mean it or not, or you know, I don't know, whatever like deep like internal work we need to do, but sometimes your ego is so high or just so fucking pissed, so hurt that you're like, fuck that fool, fuck everyone else. I don't give a fuck, you know? And then that could be the worst thing ever, but that's the hard part of a relationship where you are calling your own shots. Yeah. And I mean, in success, your partner's also calling you on shit too and they're being your professor and they're holding you accountable. But it's hard to do when you guys don't have that space where you trust each other. And I've been there before, cause I know like I lived with somebody previously where it was a terrible relationship that I was still trying to get married to that person just because we had put in time and it felt like the right thing to do. And they had a kid that I was involved with that kid's life, so it felt like responsible to like we should show a certain example. But I also know on the other side of that, like I give the analogy a lot, like I could be an accountant. Sure, anybody could do any job, but I would be miserable at that job. So I always try to ask myself, like is the best version of me possible with this configuration? And I think that I want to reserve the right if the day comes where I genuinely believe the answer is no, that I would leave. That's dope though, because that meant that you had a really secure sense of yourself and you really look up to yourself. Like you really love yourself, right? Because when we were going through the thick of it and I really hated him, I think I really hated myself. I think I was really down on myself and I don't know if I would have had that same conversation. I think for me, I had lost so much of myself, trying to help him build whatever it is that he was building and I had so much, I don't know, I really looked up to him and I really respected him that it got to the point where I really just didn't respect myself. So I don't know if I would have been able to walk away like that. And having the programming that I had of my mom going, like, that's fine, you're supposed to put yourself down anyway, you know? Yeah, so I think it's like, how do you get yourself there? Do you think if you would have had the mindset that divorce is on the table, you wouldn't have had the stick-tuitiveness to push through that time? I think for me, I always look for the flight attendant and myself. You know when you're on a plane and there's turbulence, right? You're like, oh, shit, what the fuck? And you see the flight attendant, she's just chilling. She's just like whatever, right? Just eating popcorn or peanuts. You're like, oh, this is actually nothing. But then if you see her go, oh, fuck, oh, fuck, what the fuck? You're like, oh, this is some crazy shit. So I like to use my mirror of how I deal with things and other aspects of my life. So like if I'm like a little bitch in like four other things, then like, let's say I'm feeling kind of icky here. I'm like, I think I'm just being a little bitch because I'm actually have a consistent behavior of being a little bitch and not only just this, but also this and this and this and this. So all those flight attendants tell me, I just freak out way too easily. So I will suppress my own emotions because of that. But if I feel like I have strong flight attendants in myself for other regards and then this part really just feels turbulent and I've tried everything, then I'd be like, you know what? I think I actually, yeah. Cause like, yeah, if like, if you're a Kobe at everything and then who's like notorious for shooting 1,000 free throws after every game, right? If you're a Kobe at everything and then in this one instance, you're like, you know what, I'm gonna take two days off. You probably really need those two days off because I try to read the signs and I try not. I've been, I'm lost in this metaphor now. It's two days off divorce. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The flight attendant Kobe. Is divorce a thought for you regularly in your marriage? No, I also do, but I do give myself the space to go there if I need to. I think a lot of times when people hear divorce, they think of failure. So if that thought creeps into your mind, you're, we're tempted to shove it out. Like, no, I can't think that. But I haven't thought that in our relationship, but I also, I would allow myself to go there because I am not afraid of divorce. And I think it is because I witnessed two divorces. And so it's something that I think is normal almost in my lifespan or what I've experienced growing up. And did you see the divorces that you saw as a positive thing, like thank goodness that they divorced? As I matured, yes. Similar to Jared, I don't fear it. I've actually been divorced. So I understand sort of how it happens and how a couple can be misaligned from the very beginning and why it may make sense or how they change over time and why it can result. I will say that I've seen the positive of divorce as well. My mom and my dad were divorced and it was such a better relationship for her or a better outcome for her. I saw it as a true positive. Is it something that's on the table for us? From my perspective, I'd say seven years ago, there was an inflection point. We were growing in different ways. We had a growing family. I wanted to focus on career. There were a few things that were happening at the same time. When you go and you're in conflict with that person, does it creep into your mind? Not for me, interestingly enough. Yeah. I'm speaking actually more so I think for myself that it does creep into my mind a lot in conflict. I think it has a lot to do with the way that we were raised and maybe a little bit to do with fear of my brain immediately wants to tell itself, like you're fine by yourself. You can do this by yourself. Is it a thing where you want to beat me to the punch? Like, I'm not gonna- But I wanna dump you before you dump me. No, it's not that at all. It's more like, I don't need you. I think that's where it comes from, that I don't need somebody and if somebody hurts me or makes me feel uncomfortable, it's okay because I don't need people anyways. But the real truth is I do and I happily need you and I said yes to marriage with you not because I was like, we'll see how it goes. I did it because I was like, I wanna see this thing through to the end. Whereas like, remember when I was pregnant and I got really mad and I locked myself in that room for like hours? Yes. And then I genuinely was like, pack your bags. This is it. You can do this. Chris, you have a real job. Unlike- But I mean, when you got to your job, it's a formal job that hires hundreds of thousands of employees so they know how to successfully manage that kind of relationship. Do you know what it would take for you to get fired? Sure, ethical violations, human right, let's say not being respectful of human interaction, things of that nature. So yeah, it's pretty straight forward. Do you think that people should enter marriages with that same information? Like here's what it would take for us to get divorced. Absolutely. I mean, having that baseline understanding, the challenge is you're generally often not in a place at a very young age to be able to discern exactly what your must-haves are or are not. For you, what was that thing that had you known before in your first, in your previous marriage, had you known before maybe you wouldn't have made the decision to get married? Lovers and friends, lovers and friends. I'ma take you on a trip, baby, I don't pretend, I say. What's up, everybody? Wait, you gotta get better light. You gotta be right, there you go. Get there, no, don't turn at all. Just be straight. Go straight, straight, straight, straight. Now you'll get all the good lighting. Look at that. You didn't change anything. You gotta be face forward. There we go. Now I have the bad light. Oh, I understand, it's fine. Okay. Hi, everyone. There's a new podcast that's out today for everybody who's been requesting video only. The company that we work with, Stitcher, is a podcast company, and so we really do prioritize audio. We will continue to give you clips from the podcast episodes, because we're so proud of it each week here on YouTube. But please, if you wanna listen to the full conversation, it's really, really worth it. We're super proud of the work. So go to wherever you get your podcasts. This is exactly what you would do. Cause I just felt you were nodding along, and I was like, I wanted to give you a chance to incorporate yourself. Wherever you get your podcasts, it's available on Apple, Spotify, all the major platforms. You can get it there. So if you like what you see in this clip, make sure you go listen to all of it because there were a lot of really great gems dropped by Barton Geo. Chris was on. He did a fantastic job in terms of dropping some gems and Jared as well, giving his perspective. Chris actually also provides his perspective as a person who's actually been divorced and how that shows up in our marriage. So it was a really great episode to produce, and I hope you guys enjoyed the conversation. And there, this is actually officially episode number 10 of the podcast. So there's nine other ones to listen to. Double digits. So please subscribe, and if you like what you hear, please rate. No, follow the podcast. Follow. Follow.