 What, what are you and Rebecca doing with the homestead? Surrender homestead? What are you guys doing with that? I know you, you guys are just starting with it. And like, it sounds so beautiful, like literally when I was researching you, I went to like, I started like Google Earthing Portugal and like looking at where, like where, like, and I was looking at like the temperatures and the culture and the GDP and the living standards and like it's beautiful, like it's amazing. I've been Yeah, hopefully you saw why we chose that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So tell us about the Surrender homestead. Yeah, so it fits very much with what you just said about how, you know, like I don't, I guess I'm not fundamentally identified as a scientist who's doing this. I'm fundamentally just a person who's trying to be honest about what I see as important in the world. And when it comes to, for me, like, being open about spiritual stuff was also a kind of taboo in this kind of scientific circles I moved in. But I kind of, I think it's just within me that I think I've always had just a feeling of if I hold true to what I think is authentic and real and true and I'm just truthful about it. If people don't get it or if culture isn't ready, then culture isn't ready. Like that's not my problem. You know, if I take some magic mushrooms and society says that's an illegal activity that's bad, you know, I can give up, I can absolutely give account as to why I do it, why I think it's not harmful, why I think it's incredibly beneficial, right? So that's also that same logic and the same with vulnerability, you know, with trying to, you know, I want to live in a world where especially for like men can be more vulnerable emotionally. It would be a bit rich for me to not then put myself out there and say like, look, this is who I am, you know, I'm going to try and live from a place of truth. And yeah, so it makes life a lot easier as well if you just, if you just don't hold anything back. So then when it comes to the surrender homestead, we have a bunch of different ideas of what we want to do we'd love to maybe host retreats, like, you know, maybe I was retreats stuff like that. So my wife really wants it to be a kind of artist residency a place people can come and just create and just have like studios and we're just in nature so people can just kind of connect with nature and all that kind of good stuff. But we're in we're in the early stages we're kind of renovate report this big bit of land we're renovating an old, an old farmhouse. But the fact that we kind of find ourselves here is really because of the same thing we just spoke about and because my wife's in the same wavelength of being like well, we're humans. You know, humans are these creatures that are born into nature with we're supposed to be in nature we're supposed to create like this is what's good for us to exercise, you know, be in the sunshine. And we spent our years, you know, in London and these places like, you know, you know, working hard to establish ourselves. But there was always this feeling of like society is a bit of a crazy. It's sick in many ways I would say and so the fact that we find ourselves here is fundamentally living from that place of authenticity of being like, this is where we would prefer to be will. And the thing you said of like potential like we know being here will lead to something good like we may not be able to say. Next year we're going to hold an ayahuasca retreat or next year we're going to be open to accept artists for residency but we know something's going to happen. We have people, you know, like we're in a beautiful location, we have, you know, intention to share it with people in some capacity so, so yeah keep it keep an eye on I think the surrender homestead on instagram is our best place to keep up with us. If you want to see us assembling composting toilets and stuff like that as well. So, so beautifully said we have the economic machinery that is producing so much excellence and also so much deterioration. And so to wake up to archiving the codes that are deteriorating and amplifying the codes that are making things better in that machinery and also building you know cities 2.0, because people love Urban Center so time to build those up into a 2.0 category and also, especially with our ecology bringing together architecture ecology but sustainability, but also having places where we literally just go. No, like, like, I don't want to be in city 2.0. I want to be in extreme. I want to be in the most extreme nature setting like sometimes we've envisioned this on the show where you literally can take, like, could you, could you take and build out a beautiful like augmented reality creative space in the middle of the redwoods in California, in the Pacific Ocean, or the Atlantic in Portugal you know there's, there's all of these interesting ways to like embed kind of the like and you can just turn off that augmented reality space whenever you want and you're just back at the Pacific or the Atlantic or whatever. So, like, to be able to instantaneously ebb and flow between the two is going to be very important I'm excited that you guys are building it out I think it's very it's a very important project from the heart to do, and you are there which is very important and you're going to you're going to inspire a lot of people by doing that you already inspired me and many viewers by doing that and hopefully, you know, follow along on on Instagram and maybe within, you know, who knows 2021 it could be some sort of cool event or, you know, I love our artists and residencies are going to be very important. Just briefly on the scientific dogma. I think spirituality also has spiritual dogma where there's no interest in science and the scientific method. So I think that when you go extreme kairos on spirituality you lose all chronos and when you go extreme chronos on science you lose all kairos of spirituality. And so those dogmatic circles need to in a sense realize that they do not represent the essence of the nature of reality which dropped the silos and to more harmoniously merge. So that's in essence what the science and spirituality and that's why you're doing what you're doing and why we're doing what we're doing because yeah there is no dividing into two it's it is just a one. Yeah, I think that's also really good point that again all these things are maps you know like the reality has no, there is no God's eye view where we can say this is the correct answer turns out science is right or turns out spirituality is right. They're different angles, different perspectives like you were saying the stadium like you're looking at this this beautiful diamond of existence from all these different angles. And I think again I think it's the, the, this, the, the pro, the process of creation and control and separation is can often be the thing that fuels kind of fear and and investment in the identity and tribalism and dogma and basically be like I'm a scientist over here, because I feel uncomfortable when people talk about woo woo spirituality stuff. So I'm going to just assume it's all nonsense and you know and then we hold on to our world views like these blankets right and we're not. And again that's what we spoke earlier with consciousness. I like, I think it's going to be a real uphill battle to convince this generation of scientists that that plants might be conscious there are lots of plant scientists who think think they are. But yeah I think there was a Stephen Hawking quote I'm not going to be able to remember but it was something to do with like, like scientific revolutions only happened when like each generation dies effectively like when there's a new generation coming up to to hear new ideas are fresh and you know take them aboard and I guess that's because of this emotional attachment and you fall quite early I guess two ideas. My gosh the blanket analogy is very strong there it is it's a it's the sense of of really being warm like it's almost like not wanting to get out of bed in the morning because that that blanket is so warm and if you take the blanket off and you expose yourself to the the the force is the cold in the sense of you're on the you're on the hunt again to try and augment the blankets and try and make a really strong hammock for for you to be able to you know lay in and enjoy. It's good to think of of yourself as as wanting to, and the same thing with the layers of the onion is another way to view is like, do you shed each one of those layers and get back to what is the most fundamental of our existence that shared consciousness shared and that also that is the the the realization slowly that we have the different maps of science spirituality. Yeah, it's been it's been really solid back and forth on this and I James another thing is I just really appreciate the fact that one of the things with this big synthesis that I'm passionate about is just at least whether I'm right or I'm wrong. At least I have tried. That's what's most important, I think, because with living mirror theory of consciousness. It's the same thing. Every single person, whether they're ultimately you know right or wrong, or that they're at least moving the foundation of thinking forward. They're ultimately at least trying. And in order to break through from being like in the fear right like Wayne Gretzky of you're going to miss every shot you don't take you have to take the shots. So you're going to take the we're going to take these shots, and at least we're going to push further so I just congratulate the fact that you pushed and made this and that you're publishing and that you're going to move forward with it on experientially with proving hypotheses. So thank you for inspiring people to do so. Thank you, but it's interesting because I maybe it's because I've been so weighted towards that side of creating like that. But where my head is now is actually kind of on emphasizing the other side of it which is the kind of being you know we were talking about this division between kind of striving becoming like doing and I in the past I would have been I would have very gladly just said like thank you very much you know like that's, you know, nice to be recognized for that but where I know is I would say like most people like if we if we have more people who are interested in the experiential side of things like cultivating compassion working through their own instruments and stuff like I could I could happily live in a world without science without you know where we kind of move back to a far simpler way of life. You know just like living close to nature. You know I so I don't believe in progress for progress is own sake. And it's interesting that I see in myself and a lot of other scientists. I think a kind of, we spoke about the kind of emotional currents, I think a lot of people get interested in kind of science and philosophy of things like consciousness comes out of some quite deep existential or anguish of some kind you know and I think for me there was there was a kind of very early kind of being physically unsaved as a child was kind of like is what made me just be like okay what's going on I need to figure out what's going on and suddenly you're living up in your head and you're like your mind is racing to figure out what's going on in the world. And I think this isn't something I see spoken about the. I think a lot of very talented philosophers very talented scientists also like should be when it comes to like psychedelic medicine being made legal. They should be like high up on the list of people to tap on the shoulder and go like good work figuring out all that stuff but maybe you want to go and have a bit of psilocybin therapy and see if there might be some, some fire that's that's driving you consciously, and that maybe might be happier without your mind racing all the time, because for me that's that's kind of what's happened and that's why I'm here really is, is moving, you know, I'm still continuing to communicate and think about this stuff and I'm not just going to, you know, switch off from the science but I definitely this is coming from someone who I think has always been a bit imbalanced and is finding balance and and sees we live in a culture that praises progress so much that I think it's worth saying that like it's not physically valuable. It's, you know, it comes in a, in a context of striving for, because you're not happy, I think, beautifully, beautifully put that yes, we're going to have a long term synthesis of, as you can say, like the masculine the feminine the spirituality, the, the kairos with the chronos like it's just inevitably going to be a deeper more harmony harmony is always this keyword a harmony harmony. Okay, let's wrap. Beautiful like, man, I just, I'm just so passionate about the inquiry that you have, and that it's inspiring me and I hope other people as well and also it's balanced with the also the deep of the press that you've had to to embody from in your in your heart and to explore what has been who are you individually and what has been what has affected you and I think that I think that you are in fact a be very beautiful person that you have a very beautiful story that you have a like James I'm very grateful. Thank you for coming on the program. Yeah, for that I'll say thanks very much. No qualification for me on that. I'm so I'm so grateful that we got this chance to talk and to get to know each other deeper and super grateful and