 Instinct Tech, Hawaii. Community Matters here. Okay, we're back. We're live. We are doing, she was finding your Jewish heritage on Community Matters, I think. And this is a very interesting discussion. This is really historic. It takes me back with many, make that manual Matos. And he's a Portuguese person with Jewish heritage. This reminds me of so many, a book, for example, called The Chosen. And it was about a priest in the state of New Mexico who sent a DNA sample in, like the ancestry of one of those, came back and he told them, well, he thought he might be Mexican, he thought he might be Catholic, he thought he might be but in fact he was 98% Jewish. So in this book, it's very interesting that the priest goes to his congregation, he says, you know, I don't want to disturb you, but in fact, I'm not Catholic really. I'm not Spanish or Mexican. I'm actually Jewish, 98% Jewish. And what happened in this small town and with this small Catholic church is they all decided to follow along with him and he created a liturgy which was half Catholic and half Jewish. And all his parishioners began to follow him and they all prayed in sort of both contexts. And when the Pope found out about this real story, the Pope was not happy. But it just shows you that sometimes, you know, it's like the ancestry ads, sometimes you think you're one thing, but maybe your combination of things or something else you didn't think. Anyway, many models with a story to tell goes back to 1492 and the Inquisition in Spain and how I guess Isabella and what was the name of the king then? They're the same ones who dispatched Columbus. They had this really bad Inquisition in 1492. Same year as Columbus. Okay, they threw all the Jews out and they made them go undercover. A lot of them went to Portugal and you might be related. So tell us your story, Manny Matos. Okay. First of all, thank you there for allowing me to come on this program. I think all the programs that did this is the most personally meaningful for me because it goes to my personal genealogy and who I am really. I didn't know who I was really. I thought I was Portuguese all my life until about maybe 10, 11 years ago, I was using my computer and I typed in Matos ancestry and pops up, here pops up this, according to the Catholic Church of Spain, Matos is a Jewish surname. So I almost fell off the chair. I said, well, what is it? Nobody told me I might have some Jewish ancestry in me. So I started to do some research and asked other people and all the things that I've been doing is kind of confirming what the Catholic Church of Spain had documented. And from then on, I kept on researching and researching. It's really interesting the last name Matos is documented as being a Jewish name. According to why I just got this paper here, in the 1600s, when they had the Inquisition, I didn't know how devastating the Inquisition was to the Jewish population. Thousands of them were tortured, were killed. And the ones that went to Portugal, they kind of blend in, but their names stayed with them. And this is an Inquisition trial that was done on Mr. Fertado. Fertado. Fertado. Also Portuguese name. Portuguese name. And it's well documented because during his trial, he documented names and everything. And part of it that when he fled, he went to Lisbon and he stayed with people like Cardozas. He visited the new Christian community, which they were disguised as Christians, but they were still practicing Jews. And the names were Diego de Matos and his brother Joaquim de Matos. And he stayed with other people during his stays, like people like with Jewish, I mean Portuguese name like Fernandez, Alivaro, Rodrigues, Gomes, Cardozas. So by reading all of this, I said, wow, there might be some truth to, and it kind of explained it to me why, or my kind of, the way I think, the way I reason, you know, there had to be something else that would explain that. So I wondered, did my parents know about it? Did my father, did my grandfather, did his grandfather? Yeah. And the more research I did now, the more I kind of realized that I don't know if they knew. For one thing, if they did, it wasn't talked about. Maybe they were afraid of retaliations, you know, by something Portuguese. It was already in the culture. Don't say a word. Yeah. Don't say a word. You know, you're Portuguese. You know, don't talk about your background. Yeah. And so when my great-grandparents came here in 1883, you know, and I always wondered, why would the Portuguese from the Azores travel halfway around the world to a strange islands? What motivated them to do this? And the more research I did is the Azores, the Jews are really persecuted back in the middle 1800s, the late 1800s. So a lot of them wanted to get out of that because they weren't able to, they were strictly in fishing and commerce. So I kind of understood why it was so hard for them to live in that environment. Even in the Azores, yeah. Even in the Azores, yeah. Which is off the coast. It's a different, yeah. It's about 900 miles. Yeah. Seriously different. Yeah. But the Azores were settled by a lot of Jewish immigrants that came from Portugal and Spain back in the 1500s. So it kind of got me really surprised. You started thinking about it. Yeah. I started thinking about it. And I say, well, maybe my Portuguese, which I perfectly love to be Portuguese, but if I have some Jewish ancestry, I perfectly would like to be or know more about my Jewish ancestry. And what an interesting thing I found about it is the further I went back. So you started an inquiry. You started checking up on this. Yeah. I started to project. It was a project. You had to find out more. Yeah. Because I'm most of my time, I've been checking on my wife's project, which Hawaiian genealogy. I never spent too much time on my Portuguese genealogy. Maybe you learned a few things from her as she was checking, you did your own checking. Especially when I tell her, I said, you know, you might, you might be married to, married to a half Jew. She goes, half Jew. I kind of surprised her with that. But what's interesting is I did some research on this Jewish historian and I find out we go back as far as 2000 years back to the time of Spain and to the descendants of David. King David. King David. Yeah. Because Jewish genealogy is so complex and it's so, you know. You have the diaspora where people went everywhere. Right. When they dispersed throughout the Mediterranean. Yeah. Yeah. You know, but this guy is telling me that these names go back to King David because King David had 20 children from his official wives and he had over 100 children from his lesser wives. And he's telling us that David's descendants run about 85 to 100 million people. I can trace the descendants back to King David and I'm looking at, and he mentioned names that could be associated with that family name. The family name. You know, and you got, if you want, I can name like Cardozo, Cardoza, Cardoza, Cardoza, Matos, Amaral, Alameda, Pereira, Oliveira. We've heard these names here in Hawaii. Yeah. Yeah. These are names that are common in Portuguese names. And I don't think any of them have the famous idea of how far back the genealogy. This picture I have here of. Why don't we focus in on that. Take a look at this picture. What is this picture, man? These are old photographs. These are photographs of the 1920s. When the Portuguese people came from the Azores, they formed little communities and they brought along their Catholic beliefs and their Catholic background and their practices. And the Portuguese Festa, honoring the Holy Spirit, was one of the main. And this is in the Kakaako area. That's where I come from. My great grandparents, they're actually from Hilo, but they migrated to Kakaako. It was a big community, a residential community. Oh yeah. Yeah. Mackay of Alamoana, yeah. Yeah. And, oh no, Ward and Cook Street. Oh, in there, too. Malka, too. All the Walgreens, parks, all that area was old. It was a teeming neighborhood at one time. That's the, I remember as a young kid, because I was born in that area back in 1941. I was graced in that area. So in the 20s, 30s, I remember as a 40s, 50s, as a young man going through these Festas. But I got these very old pictures and I can, I look at them and I see all these, the Portuguese immigrants. And to me, this looked like, in like the 50s, the golden age of music, this looked like the golden age of the Portuguese people, right in the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, where they really were, you know, a community. They were involved in. But we're talking about here in Hawaii. We're talking about in Kakaako. We're talking about in Punchbowl. This is, this is the first one was actually done in Punchbowl back in 1891. What is that? This is another Portuguese Holy Ghost. But this one was started in 1891. This one was started in 1916. So they developed this in Calihe had one, in the other islands had one. But, and I look at that, I says, how much, how many of these people here really understood who they really were and how significant their heritage is as far as being Portuguese and possibly of Jewish ancestry? Yeah. You know, so, I mean, because it all got blended somehow, since what the year 1500 or so till, till they came over from Portugal or the Azores. And it's hard to say who was who. You really had to have a genetic test. The name, the name gives it away too. Yeah. The names were really like how you say gave it away. But what I further found out through is a lot of the Portuguese Jews came from Morocco area, Northern Africa. They came into the Azores. They came into Portugal. So that's the reason why you have Portuguese that have different complexions. A lot of them are darker, a little bit lighter, because they had the Moroccan Muslim background. Yeah. Yeah. Well, even today, I mean, just a year ago, I was in Portugal, I spent some time in Lisbon. And I saw a lot of people from Africa there. Right now, everybody very comfortable with that. That's the way Portugal is. It's kind of, it's in an exchange somehow with Africa, been in exchange with North Africa for many years, hundreds of years. Yeah, they have a history of, you know, of the culture being interactive. Yeah. And it was kind of, and I, the more I dug into it, the more I confused I got. Because it was, you know, it was never discussed in, you know, a family circle, you know, as far as, because I don't think they really knew, you know, and how long. Yeah. And the more I dug into it, the more intrigued I was. And it was funny because I had a good friend, him and his wife on the big island when I was living there. And he was Jewish. He had two sons. They were really orthodox Jews. Both of them were doctors. So I was invited to one of the son's weddings and we went there for the wedding and it was kosher, you know, kosher. And I think to myself, what is kosher? So he explained to me, no part, no this, no that. Okay, good, good. So when I walk into the reception, he said, Larry, he says, Manny, here you got to wear this. I said, what is that? He said, that's a yarmulke. So I said, what? Tell me, all the men have to wear a yarmulke. I said, okay. And till today, I still have the same yarmulke that he gave me. That's a yarmulke. Yeah, this is the yarmulke. It's about, yeah. I wear it sometimes and I drive people nuts, you know. But I wore it that night and I tell myself, wow, this is part of where I came from. And I'm not belong to the Jewish faith, but I believe strongly in who I am and who I might be. So when I wear this, sometimes I wear it to church, Catholic church. And I tell you a story, real funny. I wore it to church then at the, when it consecrated the bread and wine, I take it off, you know, to show. But maybe you can explain what's a symbolicness of this here? I think it's a statement that you believe in the Jewish religion, that you consider yourself Jewish. That's a statement of respect for God. I don't know too much more about it than that. Anyway, it's been going on a long time. I know, I know. So one day, that bishop was there and his name, his last name is Silva. Silva is a Jewish surname, you know. So anyway, he saw me with his yarmulke on and he comes up to me. Many, I didn't know you were Jewish. Jewish, I said, no, I'm not Jewish, I'm Catholic. I said, I just wear this, you know. Well, I want to explore that. Can I want to explore that with you right after this break? Okay. That's Manny Matos. He's a Portuguese person with Jewish heritage. We're talking about finding your Jewish heritage today on Community Matters. We're so excited to hear his story, hear his journey, hear his inquiry and see the kinds of things he's learned over the years since this kind of crossed his bow. Manny will be right back. This is ThinkTech Hawaii, raising public awareness. Aloha. I'm your longtime host Sharon Thomas Yarbrough for Sister Power. ThinkTech is important to our community because it motivates, it empowers, it educates all people. For the first thing, ThinkTech Hawaii is participating in an online web-based fundraising campaign to raise $40,000. Give thanks to ThinkTech. We'll run only during the month of November and you can help. Please donate what you can so that ThinkTech Hawaii can continue to raise public awareness and promote civic engagement through free programming like mine. I've already made my donation and look forward to yours. Please send in your tax deductible contribution by going to this website. Thanks for ThinkTech.CauseVox.com. On behalf of the community enriched by ThinkTech Hawaii's 30-plus weekly shows, thank you for your generosity. We are so excited and so interested to be with Manny Matos, a Portuguese person, a local Portuguese person from the Azores, as so many are, who has found that his name is Jewish and he has a Jewish heritage. It's really incredible and he's been like exploring this in his life since then and sort of adjusting his sights somehow to some account for this new wrinkle of his identity. This is so interesting and good for you that you make a search about this, that you think about it, that you inquire about it, that you maybe change your way of thinking. And I want to ask about that. You mentioned during the break that you have two Bibles at home. You have a Catholic Bible, a Jerusalem Bible, and you also have a Jewish Bible, a Hebrew Bible. That's the first testament. We call it the Old Testament. And so I'd just like to know how you handle the differences where they fit in your life, how you see them, whether this has changed your way of thinking as a Portuguese Catholic person raised in that faith? Well, I always had interested in theological learning. I don't know if I'm a good Catholic or not, but I believe you never stop learning about your faith, even if it takes you in different directions. And like I say, it took me to a Jewish direction. You have to have an open mind to do that. You start out with an open mind. Yeah, you start out with an open mind and if it is what it is, it is. And it really got me surprised, really, on this gentleman. And one of the statements he makes here is that the Judas of Gamalha was a cousin in the second or third grade of Jesus of Nazareth. So, because in the Jewish faith, they believe Joseph was the biological father of Jesus and Mary. So what he's saying, if Joseph was the biological father of Jesus, then I am related to Jesus to Joseph or Mary, which Jesus was Jewish. Yeah, he was Jewish. So that doesn't deter my faith or lessen my belief in my religious beliefs, but it's all these things that come into play. And I think a lot of Portuguese people, if they understood this, they would embrace who they are a lot more openly. And they could understand a lot more who they are. Because as far as what I'm learning now is, as a young man, I used to, I was a lot of thinking, I used to go on, I used to ask questions, why this, why this, why that. And even the origin of life, you know, and I didn't understand why I would be thinking like this. And all through my life, I always ask questions, ask questions, ask questions. And you know, everybody would tell me, why you ask so many questions. I said, well, maybe I had something that's my DNA. Maybe it's your DNA speaking. My DNA speaking, you know, you got to ask a question, you know, how you're going to know the answer if you don't ask a question. So when I found out about the Jewish influence, I kind of understood, maybe that's one aspect of my genealogy or my genes that I didn't understand. You know, I thought I was being too aggressive or this and that, but I wanted to know answers. You know, I, I don't have that much education. I only went high school. You know, I got married when I was 21. What was your career? What has been your career? Well, I started as a young plumber. I became, I went to the ranks, walking, forming, forming. Then I changed careers about 29 years. I became a policeman and I stayed policeman 20 years and became a plumber and inspector. So, but the bulk of my education, I think I got, I went up between the first and eighth grade. That's the bulk of my education. I went to St. Patrick's and after that I goofed off in school. So I didn't, but I'm thinking I'm learning more now in my life than I ever did. So how, how do you learn now? I mean, what do you do to follow this inquiry? Are you reading? What are you reading? Are you watching? What are you watching? I read a lot of, a lot of historical information. I do a lot of research on the internet, like the, the Jews, the Azores, Jewish Azores, the Brazilian Azores, you know, the Portuguese influence in Brazil as far as being Jewish. Just to give you a story about maybe a month ago, I met this couple, she was from Brazil, he was from Brazil and her maiden name was Di Farrara. And she was Brazilian, right? So, and her husband was also. So I asked her, I says, you know, Farrara is a Jewish surname. She says, you know, I did a DNA and I found out that I'm Jewish. So her DNA verified Farrara as being of Jewish origin. So instantly it, and I said Matos was a Jewish surname. So as soon as I said that the, the relationship of the conversation became more personal. Sure. Just like, maybe you're related. Where we're related. And, you know, and we come from the same geological background. And it, and it, it kind of broke down barriers. Yeah, sure. Yeah, it broke down barriers where, you know, it, we're not too different after all, you know, and when her and her husband after talking for about 10 minutes, she walks away and she says, she's Shalom. So, you know, that's one, it's one aspect of it. And another one, I met these people in one hotel and because I asked, where are you from? Where are you from? She says, oh, we're from Canada, but we immigrated from Lebanon. I said, Lebanon. Yeah. I said, oh, well, I said, you know, a lot of people that in Canada or here, we have background, they go to them, go back to the Middle East. He said, yeah, we're all cousins. So, and it became more of a friendly, you know, conversation. Yeah. And when they left, by cause. So it kind of break down barriers, you know, the funny thing here is, it's got to be discussed is that in the Catholic Church, in the Catholic religion, as it has evolved from, from Jesus, really, there's an enmity about Jewish people, because the Jews turned them in, I guess, and caused the Romans to go after him. And, you know, and arguably they killed them. And that's built in, that's built into the religion somehow. And I think the, you know, the church has perpetuated that thought. But you tell me, you were raised in a church, and did you feel that? Do you feel that now? And if you do, is there a conflict for you? You know, when, when I was a young man, the church taught us that, the Catholic Church taught us that, that the Jews were responsible for Jesus's death, and they were responsible for his persecution. And, but I always maintained, wait, wait a minute, he was a Jew. He was born a Jew. He practiced the Jews. He practiced the Jewish faith by praying with the, with the things that need to be, his mother was a Jew. And, and he loved his mother beyond anything. And, and I said, something got to be wrong. Something is not right. So I'm glad Pope John Paul, he came out when he was alive. And he publicly changed the concept or the thinking of the Catholic Church, the faith. He says, the Catholic Church, the Jews did not kill Jesus. He publicly said, he said, the Jews are not responsible for the murder of Jesus. You know, he says, we shouldn't be holding against the Jews. They're not responsible. You know, they don't need to be held accountable because it's not their fault. You know, if Jesus was supposed to come into this world to be the Savior, you know, he would have come anyway, no matter what. And he would have suffered his feet anyway. So why persecute the Jews? They shouldn't be held accountable. It was something that has happened. And I've, I've, I've taken that. And, you know, and you don't see a conflict. I mean, as far as you're concerned, there is no conflict. You can, you can be raised as a Catholic and you can be at least, you know, in terms of your heritage, a Jew. And it all works together. Yeah, I can walk into a Jewish synagogue, Emmanuel. I can walk in there and, and, and sit on it and worship in the Jewish custom. And it's, it wouldn't hamper my faith in my Catholic faith because I think it's, you know, it's solid enough where I could go into a Jewish synagogue and practice it. Jesus did it, you know, he went into a synagogue, he practiced, he prayed to, you know, he was having the last supper. Yeah, it was a, it was a, yeah, it was a, you know, Passover, it was Jewish. So if you look at it and you don't be prejudiced in any way, you look at it, it says, wait a minute, you know, it's, it's not right. It's, it's not all Jewish people have endured so much hardship in all of, all the people of the world that have been scattered throughout the world. The Jewish people have maintained their faith for thousands of years. You know, look at, look at Israel now. They were scattered all over the world, but they came back and they created their own, their own self again. No other, no other, no other communicator. It's really interesting because, because in a funny way, you know, the diaspora happened in Spain. It happened, you know, they came to Spain and then probably because largely because the Inquisition, they went to Portugal and the Azores, it was part of the diaspora. And now the diaspora comes back together again. I mean, the Jewish people come back in Israel and they identify themselves whether by ancestry.com or not. I mean, my family is actually, interestingly, it's coming back together. People who didn't know each other are finding each other, they're finding they're related. And it's kind of a reverse diaspora. It's very interesting. And I, and this sounds like it affects you. So my question is, are you, are you going to temple? Are you reading the Old Testament? Are you reading the Jewish prayer books? Are you going to Israel? Are you wearing the yarmulke on a regular basis? Are you putting the prayer? Are you practicing Judaism? I'm not too familiar with the everyday practices, but I love to read the Old Testament because, you know, it's beautiful, beautiful poetry, beautiful stories, you know, beautiful, you know, Jesus gives one of the most, the greatest short story ever, ever written about the Particle Son. And, you know, and it's so educational. It enlightens me, you know, as far as being a Catholic that you cannot be a Catholic if they gave him Pope John Paul. You cannot be a Catholic without knowing the Jewish faith. It's true. They're connected, aren't they? They're connected. They're connected. They're one. You cannot isolate Jesus as being only Catholic when he was a Jewish. He practiced the Jewish faith, you know, so you cannot make that. So, man, going forward, you know, here we are, you're born in, I heard you say you were born in 1941. I can do the math on that. Where does it go for you? Where does it go now? I mean, how do you see your religious evolution going forward at your age and in your time and here at Hawaii? Well, I think as far as my religious faith is concerned, it didn't hamper my Catholic belief. I think it expanded it a lot more. I have more respect when I hear something that's coming out of the state of Israel. I understand their reasoning for how they think and how it's so important that they survive. I can put that link. It's so important that we understand history. Oh, absolutely. And you know, there's a right of return. So, you wish people can, should, do go back to Israel. Next year in Jerusalem, they say, means you want to return to Israel to, you know, your roots historically. And that's what you should do, maybe. Maybe we go together. Maybe we go together and check it out. My side and your side. Well, hey, I would love to, you know, I've never been west of the Mississippi. It's always the first time. It's always the first time. Many Mattaos, a Portuguese person in Hawaii with a Jewish heritage, finding his Jewish heritage. So nice to meet you. Thank you, my friend. Thank you. I appreciate it. Wonderful man. And thank you. Aloha.