 Okay, I'd like to call the meeting to order if we could okay. Yeah, sorry. We'll have roll call first, please Here Excuse Okay, thank you what the pledge of allegiance Vice Chairperson I want to thank everybody for showing up this evening Before we get started Alderman Hannah, we want to say just something quickly. Yes Big responsibility Thanks very much very nice of you. Thank you. I Appreciate everybody coming this evening was kind of short notice and if you've your scrub peels out and your dust rags We're going to clean up house in the Committee of the whole I met with the City clerk Sue Richards the other day and I was surprised how many things were in the folder and These are things many of the things on this agenda tonight have been dealt with by a different committee But it's a matter of us clearing our folder to be sure that We have some designation either we can file it. We can send it on to the new council if we want Or we can deal with it tonight if you want to make and make a recommendation for the next council meeting So this hopefully might be the last meeting. I'm not sure we might have another committee The whole depends on the timing of things. So let's go right ahead with Things I first of all need to approve all the minutes from the previous meeting Okay, any discussion on that All in favor Anybody opposed? Okay, thank you minutes stand approved. Okay number five on the agenda is a Document again. It's a challenge to see if you could find these documents They're going way back some of them. This is number 2030 and it was Submitted by the finance director and treasurer our year-to-date ambulance fund 2008 versus 2009 it was number 2030 and showed an activity activity chart and activity for calls from January 109 to September 3009 We have Alderman Rindfleisch actually that was for the minutes. Oh You want to talk about the minutes? No, I was going to make the motion. Oh, okay. Do we not second them on it? Yeah, it was okay. All right question before that. Okay. Okay, Alderman Hannah. Did you have something? Thank You madam chair. I think this was dealt with in the past. I think we are anxiously awaiting year-end data So I would make a motion to file Okay, it's been moved and seconded to file number 2030 any discussion Okay, okay, okay Alderman boring Having to do a document 2030 And I maybe I'll have the chief explain it, but I got an email from the chief last Wednesday regarding Regarding ambulance collections and that type of thing and I think it goes along with this document and The gist of the document was is that last week Somebody in in the department Discovered that for the last two years and a quarter. We have not been billing properly for Medicaid and Medicare and In the chief's email and Our discussion I had with him He estimates that we were under billing every call for Medicare and Medicaid by about a hundred dollars and His early estimate was that had we been billing correctly That would have meant another His initial estimate was about five hundred and forty thousand dollars that we would have good what that we would have collected That apparently now we can't collect because apparently we can't go back and rebuild these these accounts But I guess on the positive note if we continue to stay in the ambulance business and this situation is corrected We're going to be collecting more more revenue on Medicare and Medicaid accounts as we go forward The negative thing that it was quite shocking is why this was not discovered before and we're all potentially A half a million dollars on what we would have collected So maybe if if the chief would count what would maybe want to come forward and give the council up his Explanation of what he sees has happened and what he what corrective measures he's taken as we go forward I see the chief is here tonight Chief Herman, would you like to come up, please? Thank You madam chair all the room board. I would say that my original estimate of the five hundred forty is probably high That's figuring a hundred dollars for every call that we went on Realistically it is more of a Medicare and Medicaid issue because those are we collect basically a hundred percent of those calls of what they pay It is somewhat of a training issue that came to light By some of my senior paramedics that have worked for private ambulance services that are advising me of different ways of writing our reports and It's very disturbing that our billing agency was not coming to us and giving us the training because that's where it should be coming from Obviously we're going through RFPs right now for new billing agencies and that will be addressed It's not such a large increase in your collection rate Because we will be billing a higher amount, but the amount collectible is where you'll see the difference and I anticipate that that should be much better Starting within the next couple of weeks And then continuing on into next year when we get a new billing agency if we choose a new one which I'm leaning very strongly towards All them in Hannah Chief why can't we go back and collect those revenues? I don't know exactly what the answer to that is that would be billing agency question But it would be a matter of I don't know how far back you can go. I think in the The near past we possibly can rebuild some of those. I don't know that we can go back two years still All them Hannah. Well, I think you know given the potential magnitude of this. I think it's a imperative That we go back as far as possible and I do think it's unconscionable that the Billing agent didn't train you on that I'm hard-pressed to get excited about renewing their contract. I would say a lot of this came to light on Tuesday or Wednesday of last week we had a scheduled training exercise that our billing agency was coming in to do for our paramedics, which we do Periodically I'm going to request that whoever our billing agency is in the future that it be a quarterly training session because it is that important that Just a difference of a couple of words in our narrative Can mean a hundred dollars on what we can bill and what we can collect so After Observing some of their training exercise last week. I was extremely disappointed And I think it got to a boiling point amongst our paramedics That's said this is not acceptable and a change needs to be made and we're acting on it as we speak Alderman born. Thank you madam chair I guess what's disturbing to me and in some respects chief and maybe the full your full Investigation hasn't taken place yet, but I guess it it's almost unfathomable to me that you wouldn't have somebody on your staff That would have the expertise to know what the billing procedures were without having to depend on the billing service for training I mean you have a you have a very you have a very senior person in your department who had experience in the private sector before he came to the to the fire department and I would I would presume that included billing and You know for this to go two and a quarter years Being unrecognized and now we've got this huge amount of money that we probably are not going to be able to collect Although I understand the the city attorney is also looking into the matter It's just it's all almost mind-boggling that it would go this long without being discovered The member that you're talking about did not have any expertise in billing that billing is really a whole separate issue from The ambulance service. That's why we contract out with a separate billing agency and if anybody dropped the ball on this That it was our billing agency Should we have been monitoring it sooner Yes, but as soon as it came to light we acted on it All of them in Hannah you have a question. Thank you. Just I actually have a question for all the more. Okay. Thank you All the one born. Do we know do we have a fixed time as to when we're going to get? the financial impact report from Terry Hansen I Intend on asking Terry that tonight at finance As part of his report if you'll be so kind of send us an email. That would be great. Okay. Thank you I'm sorry I talked with Terry about that very thing this afternoon He will have information for us at the finance committee meeting, but within the next two weeks It looks like two to three weeks Just a matter of end of year compiling of all the numbers Okay, all right. We have a motion on the floor to file Thank you, chief And he knows the other for the discussion Should we take a vote on this Okay, we'll take a vote on this one to file it Roll call vote or just roll in favor. Okay all in favor of filing 2030 Anybody opposed to filing? Okay, 2030 is filed. Oopsie Hold him in bow. Thank you, madam chair If it were the pleasure of this body I would suggest we treat item 6 through 18 consider treating it like a consent agenda And if anyone feels strongly, I would make the motion to file item 6 through 18 And then under discussion if you choose to treat it like a consent agenda if you feel strongly about differently about one of The other items that might get us through tonight a lot faster. So I okay very good Okay, there's been a motion and second to consider all the rest of the items from 6 through 18 Is consent to file to file right as consent agenda? I know Okay, is there any discussion? I have two people here who are wanting to speak on Number eight and number nine. So I think we have to I want to pull those out for special consideration Move to pull eight and nine out for special consideration second. Okay All right. So let's look at eight and nine Otherwise everything also sit as Move to file right now Okay, number eight, which is number 21 22 on the council agenda Submitting a communication from Edward Wachowski regarding changes that he would like to see in section 2 Dash 558 of the municipal code and composition appointment terms transit commission Citizen Wachowski, would you like to come up, please? What is item 9? Oh, it is okay Yes, absolutely, thank you I want to thank you for bringing this issue up before The committee of the whole Excuse me because I have a cold so you can't hear me off to speak up I just like to read the rationale if I may For the package that I just passed out It says presently the transit commission consists of nine members I am proposing that the number of the commissioners be reduced to five Enclosed in the package that you receive are copies of transit commission meetings minutes for the past year and Do not reflect any item at least that I can tell that requires the expertise of the mayor Development director would have pleased to be brought to a conclusion At the last meeting the vice chair of the commission stated I was vital that these individuals attend the meetings if the meetings were to be successful That statement in itself is a little bit confusing to me and the reason I say that is because in the transit commission board commissions and committees The transit commission brought forth to this council an amendment to section two 558 and you don't have to write that down because I have another package to give you and it's in there Okay, but I just want to read it as I just stated There the chief of police and the director of city development may designate another member any member of their respective department to attend a meeting or Meetings of the transit commission in heads or her Absence with full power to act on His or her her state which means in essence that the commit transit commission had brought to you saying We don't really need these people. We just need some warm bodies there. Okay, and that's The reason I wrote this thing This action states very clearly that the individuals in question are not essential To proper conduct of transit business It may be well to note that the finance committee chair has chosen and I might say wisely Not to attend the transit meetings and to expand his energy towards solutions did a budget needs of the city There has been no discussion or concern of his absence at these meetings Article and clothes and you have it there Shows some of the articles that are in the newspapers that we read every day the mayor saying he needs more time to spend on attracting and retaining businesses the Drug problems that we have in the community which really requires the police chief's attention and The loss of another business within the community I ask that you approve this Request so that those three people can spend their full time on their and their expertise and energies in dealing with the drug problems attaining and Retaining businesses. Thank you very kindly. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Kalski All right. Um, okay I'll them in Gisha and we have a couple lights on so we'll pick this game all in Gisha first. Thank you That's right I don't our city ordinance allows you to have a designee just so you don't think the finance committee was covered at the meetings Alderman Heidemann. It's been my designee to the transit commission and I've been I've sat in that commission for three years and I I I do have questions with the makeup of the committee. I'm not sure this is I'd have to see what other communities and maybe Ed you have some of that information how other committees make up their transit commission But I know we have to have a county designee and so forth and things like that. I When I was shocked when I saw the police chief there every time Police chief spent his time with the transit commission meeting, you know over and over and over I and the fire chief Yeah, it just director of development Certainly they could be called in if a question needed to be answered, but I I don't disagree I think the makeup of the commission I think would be closer to the people if we had more riders on it We don't have one single rider in that the regular user of the transit commission unless Joe does as my designee I know I So I agree that there could be some real tweaking there. I think to make it more responsive to the people All the person months me are Thank You chairman. I think maybe it's a good idea to expand it and add some riders I think that would be a good idea of the police chief because he's the person who's in charge of the rescue and Transit is part of the city emergency rescue Remember when we had the committee of the whole last year the year before out at the fire department? That is the fire department and with the police chief as the appointee to be in charge is Part of the rescue for the city when it comes to a tornado or anything like that So I think they do have to have the ability to vote and Maybe they send their designees for most of the Meetings, but I think they actually do need the ability to vote when the action is necessary and sometimes there are their vote is necessary and The warm body part bothered me. Thank you Okay Jim to do Okay, I'm sorry. Okay all the person kiddleson. Oh, thank you, madam chairman I think at our last transit meeting that Ron McDonald gave a good explanation of Why he thought that the the makeup of the transit commission was as as it is And so that was real helpful for me you know if we maybe like to bring Run up if you would talk to us about that what you know Committee of the whole what the what do you did explain to the transit commission? Thank you very much At the last transit commission meeting we did discuss the makeup of the commission Currently there are nine bodies on the board around the commission There are three citizen members appointed by the mayor and confirmed by the council The mayor the chairman of the finance committee the chairman of public protection and safety and the chairman of public works Along with the director of economic development and planning and the chief of police The transit commission not only oversees transit but also oversees the parking utility The last discussion was about the police chief There's a lot of interaction with the police department from the parking side of it The police department issues the citations related to the parking in the downtown area and they're very involved in that effort And I think it's important for them to be involved in that aspect on the transit commission also Since 9-11 the federal transit administration Along with the rest of the federal government has required a lot of reporting related to security and related to transit One of the things I have to do is report to the federal transit administration on a regular basis What our security presence is on our transit system? They prefer that we have Our own security and I have to explain to them that I'm sufficient That we're sufficiently meeting our needs with our local police department because of our Municipality makeup and having the two of the chief on the board. So I think that's integral part of it Regarding the mayor, I do think he's a valuable member of the commission The mayor and the director of economic development and planning are actively trying to pursue economic development in the community I don't believe that we're the cause of one business leaving recently But I do believe that we will be a part of the economic development for the businesses that come into this community Some of the economic development will require transit for them to relocate here That is going to be a part of it And I think having the mayor and the director of economic development makes a lot of sense and I give a Pat on the back to the folks that set this committee up. There are different ways of setting up commissions I was involved in one in Green Bay. It was a different makeup personally I think this is a better makeup the proposal was for three citizen members Along with the chair of the finance committee and the chair of the public protection safety committee for five members If we go to that what you've done is you've given away The majority rule of any type of voting on the transit commission is going to be a non-elected officials Making a decision on the transit commission runs their business spends your money You think about that The chairman of public works we do a lot of interaction with the public works department. They do our signage for us They interact they control some of the parking lots done by the marina They also take care of the the boat slips That are charged an assessment by the parking utility Or charge a fee an additional fee by the parking utility along the riverfront there. Those are some concerns I think that's all important that we interact. I don't think that this is a time We should actually have less communication and have less people on board Part of the discussion at the transit commission level was the possibility of expanding our makeup rather than decreasing it We certainly partner with a number of other municipalities. We partner with Kohler. We partner with Sheboygan County. We partner with Kohler You know, we might want to consider what their roles should be if they should have representation on the board Because the decisions that we make can affect their budgets also So those are some of the discussions that one on of the transit commission There are any questions for directors down, okay Alderman Balk you You were first, but I you do have a question for our okay Alderman hand great Thank you for that explanation. I Agree with you that our service is becoming more and more countywide and we probably need to look at giving a voice To some of the other communities I've also thought that some way we need to get some representation from large businesses on We may think we're we're on top of how they're thinking about their problems But I think the input from a large employer would be important. So I suggest that perhaps we we target Expanding to more countywide and also looking at large employers Hold him in bulk. Oh I'm sorry. I meant to turn my light off, but apparently I just keep resetting. Okay. I just keep linking away there Do we know enough about this tonight? Can we resolve this tonight or do we need to forward it to the next committee the whole I guess do we need to continue Move the next council. You know moving to the next year. I make a motion to file Okay, it's been there's a motion on the floor to file Second to file any other discussion on file Alderman Boren. Thank you, madam chair Director McDonald what was the what was the opinion of the when you talked about the Transit Commission, I maybe I maybe you said that and maybe I missed it, but is it was it the was it the Opinion of the current Transit Commission to leave leave it the way it is or are you considering bringing on more public members? What's what was the bottom line decision? Well, I don't want to put words in the mouth of the council members that were at the Commission But I will tell you my understanding of it The Commission voted to file the communication There was discussion that it should be expanded Or at least studied for expansion in the future, but that wasn't on the agenda So we didn't spend a lot of time on it But that was certainly the feeling of the Transit Commission. That should be a future agenda item for discussion. Thank you Alderman Rindflige Thank you We've heard discussions about it having riders be a you know down the road We have more of a say on the board of seeing the board County businesses we've heard discussion if we file today Where does that discussion go? Would it be more successful to you if we do refer it over to the next Committee of the Hall of the next Common Council to keep that discussion in the air or would you rather? You know to have the discussions with a different document down the road well, I think the If that's the wishes of the council under the current makeup There are three council members on the Commission along with the mayor and that direction can certainly Be implemented through the Transit Commission to proceed with that So, you know, I think it's certainly going to be discussed that was certainly the Intent of the Commission at least what I heard them telling me and again I don't want to speak for Alderman Hannah, but that was certainly a comment that was Voiced at the Commission meeting that that should be looked at in the future as an agenda item If we're looking at the other expansion if the if the will this committee is to file this particular makeup But look at press expanding representation your recommendation would be then to file this time not keep this document alive And then rewrite something and down the road is that correct? I think that's Commission and and he was involved in the discussion that you know and he makes the Appointments of course so that he he does know, you know what we discussed and yes that you know Maybe we'd like to look to Falls or Kohler You know look outside to to appoint someone in that area and you know keep it going that way Alderman person want to be your thank you Chairman Thank You mr. McDonald. I think it is a good idea to expand it and consider expanding But my motion to file is this just this particular communication not that idea by any means, but this particular communication Okay Alderman Alderman Gisha, thank you. I have a tendency I think probably try to keep it around rather than file it We don't know who the makeup of that of the committees will be for the future years just so that things can tend to get lost And And I think a lot of people do have strong feelings about the makeup I think there's some pitfalls of expanding it out to these county communities who don't really pay their fair share They pay a token amount I didn't see any of their stimulus money going toward the new buses It was city of Sheboygan stimulus money that their people will be riding on So I think you have some issues there was suddenly having three members for four members from the outside Having control over city of Sheboygan tax dollars, which if it wasn't for us They wouldn't have any cushy seats to put their wonderful citizens behinds on And as far as the mayor being on the commission I can I can understand that but again We don't work for the mayor You know in this room I know the mayor understands that I'm not telling you anything differently We're our own independent body and we don't even know who's going to be representing us on that commission So I think until we get a comfort level there I myself will vote not to file this and just let it hang on and if necessary. We have the ability to pull it out For next year's committee the whole chairman whoever that we decided who that is Alderman bulk thank you madam chair and that's the direction. I was going when I Before my colleague made her motion, which is absolutely fine. I was saying hey We're not going to vote on this before the next meeting and after that They're going to be a handful of other people who are going to want to learn about it and have a voice in it So my intent will be to vote no on the current motion and then to if it should be voted down To to put forth a motion that would forward it to the next either councilor committee the whole so that that new group of people Who are elected in can contemplate and do the right thing after that? Thank you madam chair Okay, does anyone here going to speak to the motion to file Okay a citizen Thank you madam chairman. I thought I'm making this as brief as I can. I'm the vice chairman of Transit Commission. Okay, our firefighters made a good decision to the makeup of the transit commission Was in it has worked very well over all these years since this implementation I think any citizen for the suggestions to make a more efficient committee or a commission. However, the suggestions Don't address the five W who what where when and why? Lacking are the reasons for the suggested proposed changes Especially since the transit commission makeup has been very successful since its implementation The transit commission works as an established team to solve problems using all the assigned members talents and expertise To make sound decisions We cannot be part of a chosen few political pointed commission We must do what's best for our community Paul and her staff and their talents are a big part of transit And we need their input on many of our matters that we deal with in this commission Case in point of the role the transit plays in our city's comprehensive plan, which is our city's blueprint The applications of state and federal monies that we may qualify require Paul as expertise and her recommendations Remember ladies and gentlemen That transit is part of our city's emergency Response team as well as all other departments when responded to emergencies Case in point was a quick transit response to supply two buses at the recent fire emergency at Joom's restaurant The mayor and the ship wagon police department are also a vital part of our emergency response team and the mayor Normally would designate the chief of police as the response manager in any city declared emergency The sheriff would take that responsibility If it's a county Emergency I ask you not to support any change that would jeopardize the city's teamwork safety of our community and the established proven success of the transit commission. Thank you All right All in born used to speak to the filing. Okay. I think we can turn lights off All right on the floor is a motion to file Which we take a vote on this I think we might because I think we've got different opinions Roll call please motion to file this number 21 22 No No Okay, the motion fails now, do we have any other action that we want to do on this one Alderman Alderman Bob Madam chair, I've moved to forward this to the probably the committee the whole of the next the next Council so that those new members can learn in the in the committee the whole learning environment Okay, it's been moved and seconded to forward this to the next committee of the whole any discussion Madam chairman if we could also with the attached documentation with attached That's a friendly amendment Accept thank you. Okay amended to with the attached document Okay. All right, so it's been amended to that we attach this document that all Council people received. Okay any discussion on that? Okay. Can we take I? Think let's go ask for just a voice for on this how many in favor of affordness to next committee of the whole Anybody opposed? Thank you very much. Thank you for appearing that Mr. Wachowski, okay number nine is also related In ordinance, it's number 2150 in ordinance repealing and recreating section 2-563 the municipal code Relating to fiscal control the transit commission expenditures. So I asked to conform with current practice I Say director McDonald. Do you have anything you want to say about this is anything we need to know? Is it filling in it's just a matter of referring in our firing room There was action taken I believe a transit commission, wasn't there? I think we Reacted on this. I mean you we acted in the council on This item was brought in front of the transit commission after my backup There was a discussion Terry Hansen approached me and there was a discussion whether we the transit commission was actually practicing what the ordinance said and through discussion with attorney McLean and finance director Terry Hansen and The ordinance language was written to follow the established practice. It's been going on for decades with the transit commission It was recommended by the transit commission to forward that on to the council for Approval it lied over at the council. It was then referred on to the committee of the whole and we're here today to talk about it That's the history of it the transit commission has is actually endorsed This resolute or this ordinance change Okay for All the person in place Actually, I punched in initially to make the motion to refer but I do have something to say on this one, so it worked out Since the transit commission has recommended approval Of this and since it is current practice or past practice, I guess so what we're just kind of conforming to and move that we Accept an adaptive general ordinance Again, we're not actually doing it. We're referring it to ourselves and the county council to do so But the next agenda, but don't make that motion So you make a motion to recommend acceptance to the council, okay There's a second from Any discussion on that motion to accept and yes all the person Gisha. Oh Thank you just for background for That hasn't been said for maybe some who aren't aware of this The library board works much like the transit commission where they have to approve the bills on the library board level So all the library Board members are aware of it because they are have the ability to act independently that Correct me wrong around if I'm going off astra astray here the same ordinance of how they go through the process of paying and approving those bills are by Statute applied to the transit commission the transit commission for decades has Not approved their bills So you have trans the downfall is you have transit commission members who don't see what the bills are from a check-and-balance standpoint and The the statute is clear or isn't an ordinance the ordinance is clear They have to present the bills Haven't been doing it. I don't there's no nefarious action or anything like that But if we vote no transit commissioners then don't have They should have been doing it all along but don't have the ability to police their own Kind of independent makeup committee and if you look at the makeup committee like we just talked about There are a lot of city employees on that committee, you know really only three members at large community members at large as far as having Community input about what they're spending and what they're not transit commissions are different than committees You know, they have different powers different authorities. They can do things unilaterally and having the ability of that commission people were in charge of running those parking lots and transit system if we if we vote for them not to be able to look at the bills or change that ordinance We're then really Where's the check and balance from a commission's commission is a standalone deal, you know, they had different powers and authorities I just wanted to bring that up about what what that really does It's different than it the finance committee or something or some other committee There's no we have a lot of checks and balances within it And I think that's why it was put there in the first place like the library board from a historical standpoint And we'd be taking that away. Just so everybody understand. Okay. We have some lights on Alder person month Alder person month New York. He has become this. Thank you chairman. Mr. McDonald The transit commission Has already acted on this right? correct Do we as a council have the ability to? Change your action in any manner it being your your commission the Question at the council is whether or not to amend an ordinance If I could just clarify things I think Alder McGissel was close But I don't think entirely accurate and then I will take the opportunity as you asked The library by state statute has to do things by state statute the transit commission Fiscal control is by municipal ordinance The practice as far as I can see going backwards Has been The finance department is the keeper of the books for the transit commission when goods are purchased They're purchased through the purchasing agent When goods are received they're signed off from by staff who receives those goods and Then I approve them back to the finance director who reviews them again, and then ultimately pays those bills What's been the practice? including when the author or that the Person who brought this forward with chairman of the commission Was that the transit commission chair gets a check register a journal of every payment made in Reviews that with when they get their packet they get a journal from the finance department of all the checks that have been written This particular ordinance is to allow for that to continue It isn't that the commission can't review the check journal the the ordinance allows that bills to be paid Prior to the commission approving them the commission meets once a month We have goods and services that are billed out and are due Far less than 30 days as an example when we buy diesel fuel. I believe that's on a 10-day term So we either have to start Meeting once a week by the way as I reviewed this ordinance again today I did see the transit commission is supposed to be meeting once a week except for the three months in the summer So perhaps we should look at meeting once a week to do that. I mean if that's really what the council wants to do Where we need to amend the ordinance, I mean What does I saw today Jim? I'm not trying to that's what that's what the Ordinance says and I think that's probably why it was written that way so Bills can be reviewed. They can be paid and I don't personally. I don't care I mean if you want to do that, I just don't think it's a good practice because we we have to Pay for the goods and services well within that 30-day period where the commission meets and If there's another mechanism to mechanism to do it, fine I Will tell you that satisfactory and continuing control We're audited probably more than any other department in the city of Sheboygan and I would I would welcome additional Oversight if so desired by the council We're audited by the city's financial auditor. We're audited by the federal government. We're audited audited by the state government We have audits going on a regular basis. So That part of it doesn't bother me But I think to allow for the timely payment Is really what the transit commission is trying to get done in letting this go through one of the comments that Finance director Terry Hansen made to me In our discussion is that the transit commission has said basically my position is hired to run the system to pay the bills and be held accountable if there's an issue I'm accountable His concern was he actually Made a comment that I hadn't considered was if the commission is going to in fact be approving all the purchases That makes the commission then accountable for every purchase which is fine and dandy, but just Comments from great discussion All the person Hannah thank you madam chair So Ron the the current chairman of the commission does receive in his packet a check ledger. Absolutely. Thank you Okay, thank you So we have on the floor Sorry, thank you. It didn't click in when I tried to when I wanted to speak But I would I would ask so I just want to make sure I think I read from all of them Boren what we would be doing is to say that we don't want it to conform To what I thought chairman Gisha said was a statute Or an ordinance we're gonna change that ordinance and let them conform. Okay, so that would be what we're voting on I would ask this body's permission to open up the Florida citizen Wachowski and ask him to hand out the information he has before we vote. Thank you, madam chair. Thank you Yes He cannot citizens cannot call Okay Yeah, okay, so we're talking about commission work. All right, Mr. Mikulski you want to pass out something other material, okay? Yes, okay On the point order passing it out. Mr. Koski. Yeah, he passed out On the point of order as a deliberative body This is our time to speak to have public input It is up to the chair really to make a judgment on what is allowed and what is not allowed within this The the board itself may May vote to overrule your ruling. I'm in this case For the information all would simply take is your point to say That I could go ahead and pass the information out So just as a point of order that as a chair, this isn't the common counsel. This has a different set of rules Thank you. Thank you Okay, mr. Koski. We have another meeting coming up at seven. I just want to mention that finance meets at seven and Okay, I Spend a lot of time putting together this document. Okay, and it's not based on my opinion It's based on your records and fact But before I start let me say this we talk about the library and the library has the same obligation And I happen to be a trustee of the library and to fulfill my obligation and oath of office I Put this document together because transit bill thirty nine hundred dollars plus To the library for the assessment which you approved when we try to get an answer to why We could not get a satisfactory answer of why we got thirty nine hundred dollars bill So I did a little bit of an investigation and now I want to share that investigation with you And I'm not going to read every page Because that would take too long page number two shows you the ordinance that's being brought forth and on the surface that seems to be a very very clean type ordinance But it goes a lot deeper than that and I mean a lot deeper than that Because on page three It alludes to what I told you on the bottom regarding the mayor the police chief and the city development director If you look on page four, it states very clearly It doesn't say that a transit commissioner can do what they want to do how they want to do it And why do when they want to do it? It says all transit commission expenditures shall be audited audited by the commission and If approved by the commission shall be paid by the city in a manner provided by ordinance I'm not going to go over all of the pages here But this gives you a copy of what the restrictions and authorities the ordinance regarding transit and parking the next sheets page 16 starts a worksheet that I put together and Where did I get the figures? I got it from the trial balance that was applied to me by the finance department if Mr. McDonald has stated That this works very well the system that they are using Well, if you take a look at the charges as they go across the board here for Parking you will note that on some lots. It doesn't snow on other lots. There's no stormwater fee or one lot you have unemployment compensation for a lot that has nobody working on it and you have two lots 13 That are losing a considerable amount of money and absolutely nothing is being discussed by the transit commissioner So I don't think you can say it works very well Some excerpts from page 20 some excerpts from the financial Report the trial balance of the city which are the next pages on there reveal That at the end of the year the transit had a million three in the bank Obviously that money was needed for something because they don't get the money from the federal government until later in the year But why isn't someone taking a look at that million three when you took a look at a million dollars that was in the Library budget held over and the eight million dollars that was in the public works budget the transit commission Know that has stated at their meetings the transit director has stated their meetings that We got five times any dollars that you invest in the transit is matched five times by the federal government Figures are there in the book. Take a look at them. Not five times. Not even three times Saris Saris were 95 thousand dollars Less than budgeted for the transit drivers health insurance less than budget it Yet if you look at the other package, I gave you that has the minutes for the transit Meetings you'll see that it was brought forth to the transit commission to reduce The service to the ridership because there wasn't enough money Well, if there wasn't enough money, you have to say wait a minute What happened to that money and I'd like to go along with the logic and I'm not going to go through all this stuff. You can read it yourself two hundred and sixteen thousand two hundred and twenty seven dollars and thirty three cents Was approved for power transit? Excuse me was spent for power transit Over and above the budgeted amount approved by the transit commission without any Approval by anybody other than the transit director the meat and potatoes of this package are in The sheets that are colored There were three entities in the city the water Commission The water Commission all accounts of water departments have the audited by the board of public works By board of waterworks Commissioners and upon approval shall be paid by the finance director so on and so forth fiscal control for that for the transit All transit commission expenders who shall be ordered it State statute for the library board the same identical thing. So all three have the same identical rules Now mr. McDonald has stated that there are bills that have to be paid upon Presentation well, if you take a look at the statute for the library, you'll see it states that all recurring bills Can be paid if those recurring bills are approved in advance The ability to pay those upon demand as long as they're paid As long as they're approved at the next meeting, which means it's total transparency Okay, it deals with that. So that's not a legitimate argument. Okay Now let's take a look at one other thing and this is something that I think is very concerning to me and that's the oath of office and When you got sworn into your job the same as every commissioner Every member of every committee Signs the oath of city office and the oath of city office says I will faithfully discharge the duties of said office To the ability to best of my abilities to help me God it says is Signs is so There's a section that says if you don't do what you're supposed to do and live up to your oath How you're removed and there's a code of ethics that applies. I Think the common council ought to take a look at Have the transit commissioners lived up to their oath by Refusing and I say refusing because I have brought to the transit commission Over months that they are violating the section of the law that says they're approved to prove the bills And they said we don't want to do it in so many words They were very upset and they refused to do it. I also brought the same information to The finance director and for months I asked the finance director. How can you pay bills that are not approved? You're you're in effect taking the authority of the transit commission and you're supposed to be checks and balances. Well, finally on page 31 You will see that the finance director took some action and said in essence. Yes, you guys are violating the proper section section to dash five six three and then and only then Did the transit director? attempt or Foster this resolution Which in essence? Would take and make what they're doing? legal Beyond me how it's how a finance director can pay bills that are not approved That's something that really ought to be take a look at because they have enough of office, too And in conclusion and you have all my conclusions there and I ask you to read them But there's one thing that I do want to read to you just for the record for the people that don't have a copy of this Based on the reading of the attachment The conclusions would seem obvious that the transit authority transit commission and maybe the finance director along with the city of Sheboyton government Not only acknowledge of the fact of not following city state statues as required by law But further are doing this act of defiance and why defiance? Because if you put in an ordinance to change the law that doesn't mean that you can just Disregard the ordinance is there you have to follow that This is contrary to the original ten of the law and finds no exception successful challenge to date in the state Further it defeats the proven concept of which we operate into the box seat by eliminating the very system of checks and balances Conceived to protect the public interest from misuse and waste of public money It should also be noted that the lack of constraint at least yearly updates of the records is lacking Which leaves the door open to further errors not consistent with good business practices Additionally the lack of accounting in the area of transit parking Accountability is almost non-existent This particular department of the city cries for a complete investigation audit investigative audit to determine the accuracy of all Money's acquired and they're subsequent dispersal According to the law and good government accounting practices finally the complete structure of this department. It's administrative Management and controlling commission members is in high question of the competence Capable to actually run this department and may need state intervention to bring this entire situation Back to an even and more basic Requirement of law. I ask you not to vote on this tonight But to hold it because there's a lot in here that you want to take a look at but I think it's very important that you take a look at the oath of office and If you find that the oath of office has been violated then if you don't take action Then the oath of office for anybody means nothing And if I sound like I've got to look site it I am In this one I shoot here because I think it's an important issue and it's a foundation of government checks and balances and responsibilities and I live up to my responsibilities on the Board for the library and we review every month every bill we got a breakdown Those bills and the bills are actually brought To the meeting so if you have a question on the bill you can actually go and see the bill and that's before it's paid Also, we get a complete breakdown here of the month-to-month Status of the accounts. Thank you very much. Is there anything all the person Hannah? Thank you, Ed But I have a question for you when you were chair of the Commission, how did you handle it? I'm sorry when you were chair of the transit commission. How are things handled when I was chair of the transit mission? I'm ashamed to admit it that I was misled I did not know about this and I did not know that they were supposed to Handle the bills Okay, and I would not have known it had I not done this investigation investigation, however One month because I wanted the transit commission to see the finances I had the trial balance for the transit commission Given to each and every member of the transit commission at that meeting and my Selective recall will tell you this that Alderman graph Raised a question that they didn't want to see these and Everybody and not the present transit commission except for several individuals Said we don't want to see these bills anymore. We don't want to see them. I Did not know the ignorance at that point did not know that we were supposed to be Approved these bills had I known that and had I been the position I am now I certainly would have insisted that that be part of each and every meeting and the transit commission Presently can't say that they don't know Because I have told them over and over and over at each meeting and I've been ruled out of order Okay, Alderman Flaish Thank you, madam chairman Absolutely a lot of information here to absorb And there's really two issues I think that we need to hear from one is would be the transit director to respond To what we've seen what we've heard as well as then See attorney's office kind of give direction on really the proper direction to go, you know What is the requirement? What a suggestion? What is you know shell versus may kind of language that we often see in the documents So it was I believe my motion to To pass Wasn't no someone else that I asked what we did make the motion since I was I would ask that Would ask those who made the motion in the second to refer to the committee of the whole of the common council the next common council Okay, okay, it's been moved and seconded to forward this Committee of the whole for the next session of the common council any other discussion Okay Thank you, I Had I spoke before earlier regarding the checks and balances of the Commission and I would have voted to not approve this change Personally, but for the record, it's not because I think there's anything Underhanded nefarious or or otherwise state intervention wise Going on with our transit director Ron and I have had many spirited and fun disagreements or discussions, but I've never questioned his personal integrity Even if I would have voted no on that it had nothing to do with that. It was more of a structural check and balance We're really over time sir. Are you on the Commission? This is really a question about the Commission. I think we don't we don't Ridership is not really a matter of concern at this point The next company the committee of the whole yes That'll be up to the that'll be up to the chairperson of that next committee the whole to do that to put it on the agenda Yeah, if it's on the agenda. Yes Yes, you can come to a Commission meeting to it's a public meeting you can come to the Transit Commission meeting Okay, thank you. Okay I think are we is it all of them in place? Did you want to speak to speak to the public? We do have also between for the Common Council those five slots of public forum that are available to the public to speak as well Yes, so that there is available every other Monday basically comes up that the public would be able to speak on this issue Yeah, okay. All right. Thank you. All right. Let's move on this issue It's the motion on the floor is to move to the committee the whole of the next council All in favor Anybody opposed Passes as being moved on All the men bow chair all the rest of the documents six to eighteen minus nine and seven and eight minus eight nine I would move to be filed Any discussion? Okay, all the rest of the documents Remove the file all in favor Anybody opposed? Okay, they're filed Second, okay. Thank you everybody for coming