 Okay, and welcome again to another segment of DEI Matters Conversations with Margaret Creadle-Thomas, and today I'm really excited. We have Dr. Elizabeth Holman with us that we are going to dive in and have a great conversation. I know she likes to go by Liz, but that's how I wanted to introduce her. Hi, Dr. Holman. Hi, Margaret. I'm good. How are you? I'm good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So, this has been a while coming. Yeah. We're just laughing about schedules. Yeah, we've been talking about it for a while. And so, thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to be here. As you know, I'm trying to have conversations that are facing to the community. And I think that as leaders, it's great for us to kind of have these conversations and kind of be a little bit vulnerable, right, with our Arlington community. So my first question for you, Liz, is what led you to Arlington Public Schools? Oh, I love this question. So well, I am originally from the Midwest. I'm not from the New England area. And I came out to the New England area when I was finishing up my doctorate because there was an opportunity at Boston Public Schools and my husband's a scientist. So we knew that if we were going to be in science and education, that the East Coast was a great place to be, and that there was a lot of innovative thinking here. So we're in this area, at least in part, because it has a really strong reputation for excellent public schools. I'm a product of the public schools, I'm a believer in public schools, and also because it's an area that's really known for its innovation and education and in the sciences. And so we knew it would be a great place to build a home. We live in Newton, and I have worked in Boston and Waltham, but Arlington, I came to know Arlington through friends who lived in Arlington and told me about Arlington, and it always sounded like a wonderful place. And I would really only come here to shop sometimes to eat or to see those friends before I actually ended up working here. But I was told by one particular friend of mine, just what a wonderfully loving community Arlington was. She was a librarian and she worked in the school system where I worked in Waltham. And she is no longer with us, but she was just one of the brightest, most wonderful people I had ever known. And I knew that any town that could house a person like her and have a community like the one I knew she had built around her would just be a wonderful place to be. So when I heard about the role, I actually wasn't really considering becoming a superintendent at the time. But I decided to go ahead and put my application in and the rest is history. It ended up being a really wonderful fit. Really? So you did not plan to venture out to be? It was not a wide search. It was a singular application. Wow. Wow, I never knew that. Yeah, I can't believe we haven't talked about that. That's a fun fact, I never knew that. I don't think people know that I sat on the search, the initial search. Yeah, so, wow, and here you sit. And Arlington was a special place in part because I think the values of this community around particularly civic engagement are things that I find really important and believe deeply in. And the values around the arts and the fact that Arlington really deeply values education and puts their sort of resources where those values are, it was really important to me. So those are some of the things I looked at when I considered a role like this in a town like this because I've come to learn in public education that so much of being a leader of a town really depends upon the town valuing some of the same things that the individual leader does. So to get serious about it, so that was some of the stuff that I wanted to make sure were in sync before I applied for the role. Wow, that's, like I said, that's great to know and as your friend said, talk to you about Arlington. So you already knew some of the ins and outs of how to get to this school and that school. Since you've been here for rest, dinners and things like that. It took me a whole year and a half to know that I don't always have to go down mass apps to get to other schools. I'm still learning my way around. That's for sure. I do still use my map app, but I'm getting better about it. Okay, so you've been superintendent for almost six months. Can you walk us through a day in a life of a superintendent, a new superintendent? Yeah, so, no, because every day is so different. My favorite days, I can walk you through one of my favorite days. My favorite days are the days where I get to go out into schools. And those days typically look like, I like to start there, because if I end up in my office, it's hard to get myself out of it. So I'll start my day at a school and I'll go through, if it's a principal visit day, we'll go through multiple classrooms and I'll say hi to the kids and ask them what they're learning about. Look at what is on the wall, look at what they're working on. Talk to them about what they've learned this year, what's working about school, what they really like. And then the principal and I will go and chat about what we saw and what the principal's goals are for the school that year and what they're trying to make adjustments around and what challenges they're facing and what resources they need. I'll try to say hi to as many people as I can while I'm there. And then typically the afternoons are pretty packed with meetings. And we're getting into a nice mixed blend of Zoom and in-person meetings now, so I'm invigorated by the meetings that don't require me to sit in front of the screen. Yes, yeah, yeah, I agree with you. The other thing that I wanted to also discuss is that not only are you doing walkthroughs of schools, you have your leaders doing walkthroughs of schools. And I think we've done three, four so far, and so that's new this year. And what made you decide that let's take the leadership and the goal is for us to visit every school this year. So everybody has a time that the leaders are gonna be visiting different schools. What made you decide that that's something that you wanted to do and that you wanted the leaders to come in and see other peoples? And we have teachers that sign up for this and want us to come into their classroom, which I think is really great and really being a vulnerable moment. Yeah, so this actually gets at conversations about equity. I really believe strongly in instructional equity and in equity as sort of being lived out in our relational moments with one another and with students. So I think it's really important for leaders to get to where the work is happening, right? To get to where the kids are. And to listen to how teachers talk with students, how students talk with students. Who's doing most of the talking in a classroom? The actual physical materials that students are working with, we need to have eyes on these things. If we're going to understand where barriers are put up for students. Those barriers, sometimes they're big and structural and very obvious to us. But oftentimes they're not. Oftentimes they're very hard to see. And we have to see together. So part of why we do these rounds that Margaret's talking about is a lot of fun. First of all, and we go around to and it's, I'll say this in a second. It's fun and it's a little jarring for the schools right now because it's so new. But we go around in groups of four and then we come back in that same group of four and that group of four people have seen all the same thing. And they talk about it. And what's useful about that is that in the same way you observe anything else, you go watch a play with four of your friends and you come back. What you noticed and loved about the play and what your friend noticed and loved and what your partner noticed and loved about the play are all different. And it's important that we highlight what those differences are and what we see that we appreciate our differences in perspective as leaders in order to build some relational trust with one another. And that we begin to see some of the same things. That's also really important too, because we're not going to be able to lead towards a common vision of a really great and equitable and accessible instruction looks like. If we're not doing this on a routine basis. So that's a lot of the why behind the walkthroughs, both mine with the principles and the ones that we do as a leadership unit. And this is exactly what you said, because we just did one. And when you come back with that group, you're like, really, you saw that, I didn't see that. And or I will say, for me, it's like I always look at the walls. Like what's on the walls? And then I look in the class. So it has been great to hear different perspectives of when we walk in a room. And I think, like you said, those different perspectives coming back together really makes for a rich conversation. And I think the teachers also like it because it's been helpful. It's been giving them some feedback. So yeah, thank you for starting to do that. It's a lot of fun. What are some of new initiatives, policies, or practices? And we've just mentioned a couple of them. Have you implemented since becoming superintendent? So one of them has been a walkthrough, which we're really appreciating. So I think one big one that we just actually also went through when you were part of this process, too, is we're beginning to build next year's budget. And we adjusted that process a little bit. As part of the school improvement planning that the principals do, they've been sharing also the resources that they need in order to move their school's goals forward as quickly and as well as possible. And so that has informed some of the budget planning. But in addition to that, we had all of our leaders and managers of cross centers, as well as our AEA representatives, share with us what it is they think we need to prioritize for next year based on what they're seeing in their schools, what they're hearing from their teachers, and what they're seeing with their students and hearing from families. So we pulled that process together with a bit more procedure to it than we've had before. And we have a whole list of the requests that we think are needs and for the school district. And we're going to next be sharing that whole list with the school committee and trying to make some priorities around what it is that we know we're going to need for next year. So the budget planning process has shifted a little bit. That's obviously something we have to do every year. But it's been nice to do that because for me it helps me get a really clear sense of the system and where we're putting our resources. And I do believe that a budget is a reflection of one's values. You can learn a lot about an individual, an organization, an institution by looking at how they spend their money. So it's been really valuable to me because it has helped me both hear from every single leader. That was something we did a little differently where we had every leader come in and talk with the group that you're on. And it's given me also a clear sense of what people are valuing in the system and also where they think we need to place value where we need to place resources to provide what kids need. So that's been new. The school improvement planning process and the public sharing of those plants is also a new initiative. My goal is to really have each school have its own identity and shared culture and build a sense of belonging for students around that shared identity. And so the schools have, they're required to create improvement plans every year, but they haven't previously presented them publicly to the community. And what's nice about presenting them publicly to the community is that it gives them an audience and it also provides some motivation for the school councils to come together with their school administration and teachers to build a really strong plan that's going to be supportive of families. So we've been focused on some of those things this fall and we have some exciting new things coming up in the spring. I don't know if you want to hear about those. Well, I mean, I want to kind of dig a little bit deeper into the two practices, new practices that you have implemented because I'm in a new role. And so this is all new for me too because I've come from a grant funded budget where I was, you know, you're getting a certain amount of money. And then there are different buckets that you need to spend and I need to spend down before June 30th. Now in a new role and I have to, I start with a zero budget and I had to spend up and that was really interesting and that's been really a good experience for me because I had one hat of grant funded. And then I now have this other hat of, oh, this is really how a budget works. Because I didn't really have to think of it in that way in previous years of my rationale, the data as to why I might want certain things in this department. And it was really great also to hear people's rationales and their passion as to why they wanted this for their school and for their students. And so that was really great and it was, it was, we did four days. Yeah. Four days of. Yep, wiped everybody's schedule out for four days. This is why nobody could, this is why our scheduling challenges we were talking about earlier are real. Right, exactly. Yeah, and then like you said, the school improvement plan, one of the things I wanted to say is that you are a superintendent that wants it to be very collaborative with one another. Yes. You want your leadership to really like work with one another in every area that we can possibly bring in those stakeholders on that leadership team. And that was new too that you really set the principles to bring in curriculum leaders or directors or whoever that is when you're talking about your school improvement plan and share it out. And that was new. And I, I think that was great too for me because I hadn't seen a lot of people's school improvement plans. Yeah. So I just wanted to share that, that these new initiatives have been really like good because we now know what everybody is really working on in schools and how can we help? How can we support? How can we continue to collaborate? So I wanted to just put that in there. Well, and I'll say like what's important about what you just said and about us making sure that district leadership from curriculum leaders, those of us who are K-12 right and are thinking about the whole system and those of us who are in buildings and leading the work of a school community have to be in constant communication with one another because we bring different gifts and perspectives to the work. And you know, I as a building leader, pretending I'm a principal for a moment, can't possibly have the, the full K-12 view of social studies or even as deeply know social studies as well as our amazing Denny Gumblin does. Right, right. And so it's really, you know, I can't plan well and then execute well without his voice at the table, the work of our other curriculum leaders at the table, the business office understanding what we're working on so that they can resource and support it, the human, the human resources office knowing what we're working on so that they can help us really staff it well and make sure that we take care of our staff. So all of like every role in the system really has to be unified towards a single vision. Yeah, I think that's what you did. That's what you showed us that each each one of us has an important aspect of what is needed for the district, for the students. So I really am appreciating these new processes. And so the other thing I wanted to ask you is like, what do you find are the best parts of being a superintendent? I think one of them you mentioned is going to schools. Yes. So that's one. And what are some other things that are really like, this is great. Oh, wow. I, I love, I love going to schools because I love talking to the kids. They, they are honest. Yep. In a way that sometimes adults aren't, they are, they are curious in ways that sometimes adults aren't, but I think we all should be. And I also, I really enjoy systems level thinking. I really like thinking about how all the parts fit together. I'm somebody who can connect, you know, an apple to a llama. I can find a way. I don't know. I just thought there was no meaning to that analogy at all. I was about to say, how does that work? Fine. Like, I love finding connections between ideas, between people, between systems. And when there is a disconnect there, I like to understand why. So I, anything that involves part of why I mentioned the budget planning when you asked about, you know, new things is because that's top of mind as a recent thing that I've been working on deeply that really helps me understand how the whole system works and doesn't work for kids. And so that piece of the job, when I get to do that sort of high level strategic work and design work, I really enjoy that part, too. Wow. Yeah, I never thought about that. I think because I'm thinking I'm trying to really think about what diversity, diversity, equity and inclusion really means. So when you said that, I'm like, yep, that's what I'm starting to do. And we'll get to that one. What are some of the challenges? She laughs of being a superintendent. How long do you, how long did the show? So right now, in all honesty, the thing I find the most challenging about leading through leading schools through a pandemic as a new superintendent is that I can't see anyone's face. Like, truly, though, I've met people in Zoom with their masks off. They're at home. They're not in wherever their space is. And I tend to ground a person with the place where they belong. So if I go into a school and I meet a whole bunch of teachers, I've grounded them in the place where when I'm at work, they are. Right. And right now, if I go into a school, I'm meeting everybody from the eyes up. I can't see their full face. And then I'll see them on a Zoom meeting where they won't be in wherever their place is or they will be. But then I see their whole face. And so I'm trying to piece together eyes and mouths quite literally. And it has made meeting people hard. And it's been memorizing who's who and where they go. Pretty challenging. And that's, you know, work that's really important when you're a new leader. So that's a challenging piece. I mean, the day to day decision making, you do get the decision fatigue. It's the end of the day on Friday right now. And if you ask me to decide what I would like to have to drink, I'm not going to be able to choose between water and milk. But the really hard, the really tough thing right now, sort of on a personal level, is memorizing who everybody is and needing to do so in a landscape where I can't fully see you. Right. And that makes sense because that happens to me, right? It's like you see them in person and they have the maximum. Like, and you kind of look and you're like, I think I know you. I know I've met you. You know I have. What? So we have a new department, the department. You were very instrumental with the decisions and interviews. You and I talked a couple of times and what do you think? What is your definition when we think about the I because I've been feeling like people are just using the words and I don't know if we really are grounded in what does it really mean and what does that really mean for Arlington? And we're just starting to make meaning. But and I think I just wanted for me to hear from you personally, like when you think about this office and this department, because we said we want to grow at what does diversity and equity and inclusion mean? And I always put in anti-racism because I think that's really important. Yeah, I really think about this office as one that is there to design a system that does not design in barriers that disproportionately deny access to members of our community to any members of our community who identify in any sort of way. And it's also about educating the entire community. And I'm in that I include community members who are taxpayers and are therefore funding the public schools to our kids, to our teachers and our staff and our administration about what it looks like when those barriers exist and the negative impact that they have on kids and on us ultimately, right? Because we're building a future. So and our kids pick up on everything they notice when their peer is treated differently very and they notice whether it's overt or not. And, you know, they notice I have access to this. I can do this. I am able. My family is able to afford this. My friend, my peer is not. They notice when, you know, one student is provided with this learning resource and another is provided with this learning resource. Or I work with this teacher, that student works with that teacher. And these things have a cumulative impact over time on a child. And so the DEI office, the word inclusion is among the really important ones to me there because it's incumbent upon us to identify those practices that are not inclusive and to really hear the voices of those who have not felt included. And that can be a really tough job that you've signed yourself up for because it means you're listening to problems for a lot of the day. But it's really important that we have an office that does that and that then can help us listen to those problems in ways that allow us to productively redesign the system. And you said it. I'm listening. People are sharing their stories, which we want because we want people to be authentic and share the stories and let us know what the barriers are so we can start to, like you said, deconstruct those barriers. And as you know, I'm like proponent now of this district equity audit because I just really feel as though getting the audit done will help us to even go deeper in our thing. Like you said, one of those barriers to students having access to what they need. I have one more question for you. Yeah. As some people don't know, though, I I don't know what happened to me last January COVID and I made a decision to apply for the doctorial program and and actually got into Boston College. And I finished my first semester and you and I had a conversation where I told you, I said, somebody like asked me, like, so like, what made you decide to do this? And, you know, and the question wasn't, what, you know, my son, AJ? And so how's how's this work with AJ? And I'm like, fine. And you and I had a conversation about how we as women get different questions when we do things. So you already have your PhD. I'm going for my PhD. And so what what do you I think the question is for me is like, what do you say to people that you're like, this is something I want to do. I'm sure I had a conversation with my family before I did it. I'm not sure I did, actually. I'm kidding. I did. And, you know, so we've worked that out. It's just and I think you and I were talking about, like, do we think we're kind of hypothesizing that, you know, men who identify as men, are they getting the same questions that we are getting as women? It is one of the reasons I came to Arlington is because Arlington has a history of women leading the public schools for extended periods of time. My predecessor was superintendent for 13 years. And that was a really positive sign to me because it's not common. There was recently a study published by the Rennie Center that talks about the power gap and the gender gap and the race gap in the superintendency and really in leadership positions all the way through K-12 public education, and it's not unique to education. We know this is true across fields. The reality is it's it's a different kind of juggle and also a different kind of perception of what leadership looks like when you are a woman, when you are a woman with children and a family, and particularly I have young kids who certainly require a lot of my attention and time and deserve it. And they deserve the same thing from their dad. And so we have a balance in our household. And, you know, when I encounter and I do encounter moments of what could be unconscious bias in my work because of my gender or my age or whatever it might be. It's important for me to sort of take those moments and understand that they are something of a symptom of a social challenge that I am in this job to address. And so to some extent it can be empowering even in those moments where it can also be frustrating. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I like, you know, it's I've always been that one. I, you know, I put my mind to do something. I'm going to do it. That's right. Congratulations. By the way, I'm making it through that first semester. Yes. So, Dr. Homan, thank you for joining me today for our, I think we had a great conversation. I'm sorry that we're out of time. Me too. Yeah, we could. That went too fast. Right. We could probably keep going on as dialogue. Again, thank you for joining us for D.I. Matters Conversations with Margaret Feetle-Thomas. Please join us again in January when we come back with another guest. Thank you.