 Welcome back to the original gangsters podcast. I'm Jimmy Buccellato here in my home office And I'm here with my friend and colleague Scott Bernstein Hey now and we have our producer videographer audio engineer Extraordinaire Benito with us as well. We want to thank you all for joining us and before we get started Just remind you to please subscribe to our video channel on YouTube and also subscribe to our audio podcast We're on Spotify Google Apple podcast, wherever fine podcast are consumed and we also Are on social media Facebook Twitter Instagram and we appreciate your comments and questions and we try to get back to you as soon as we can sometimes it takes a bit So we appreciate your patience and we're thinking of ways to become even more interactive If if possible with our audience again, this is a do-it-yourself operation The I've beat this beat in this dead horse before but the three of us have have day jobs So we do this as a passion project and a labor of love So but we are always thinking about ways to deliver more content and to streamline things and make it more efficient And one of the things we think about is communicating with the audience and in a better way And maybe even doing some live episodes where people can ask Scott questions in real time I think that that's something we've been been discussing as well. So anyhow, thanks again for listening and following We have a very cool episode today. I'm excited about this episode. We're going to be talking about the Westies This was an Irish mob group out of Hell's Kitchen in New York back in the day And I would say in terms of non-Italian Organized crime groups. This is up there in terms of one of my favorite groups to research and read about I would say the purple gang out of Detroit that the Jewish syndicate the black mafia in Philadelphia, and then I would say the Westies that might be like my top three Non-Italian favorite non-Italian groups to research and read about So we're gonna start with actually some recent news about this group And then rewind it and and give you more context and talk about the history of the group Scott, you're reporting Jimmy Coonan is a name that has come up and you want to explain who that is and what's going on now with him And then we'll break down the history of it. So Jimmy Coonan was You know for all intents and purposes the last boss of the Westies. I know that Bosco Led it for a little bit after Jimmy went to prison, but Jimmy Coonan was the most Notorious Irish crime lord of the 1980s and Came up in Hell's Kitchen Super tough guy who Engraciated himself with the Gambino crime family Paul Castellano and Took Irish mob affairs in Manhattan and I guess Elevated them with that connection to the Gambino's in the past that organization had been More at odds with the Italians and the Genovese crime family, but Jimmy Coonan Another guy that you know, I would describe as a force of nature Very very happy violence, but at least in his At the apex and in his glory days. He was someone that Was a natural leader and and got guys to rally behind him and really kind of change the face of the Irish mafia in New York City he was convicted in What taken off the streets in 1988 convicted shortly thereafter His right-hand man and and de facto underboss who will talk about a Mickey Featherstone ended up testifying against him He's been in prison now for 35 years and Right now is in a federal correctional Institute in Pennsylvania and he is looking for a compassionate release. He's got Seven years left to serve his Outdate right now is is 2030 and he's requesting that his federal judge Allow him to go serve the remainder of his time on home confinement. He's 76 years old right now On home confinement in New Jersey with his wife his longtime wife Julia who also Will play a role in the story that we tell You know it remains to be seen he He made this appeal for relief to the court last week August of Mid to late August of 2023 and we'll see I know that they're having some questions about who's gonna make the final decision the judge that Stens Tim is Gone and then for people that don't know how the the you know This is state or federal if the judge that you were With in your case is no longer on the bench Whether it's retirement or that they're deceased the case gets reassigned and that new judge has the same authority as the original judge And and can you know keep you in there longer lets you out earlier? so Again, it's still up in the air whether or not this will be a plea for relief that's granted he Wrote a number of letters to the court Showing in recent letters to the court showing the trying to show contrition and that he's not the person that he used to be and that he's learned from his Prior devious ways and has kept his nose clean behind bars mentored younger inmates I'm not discounting that But I'll I'll say that when you're talking about someone like a Jimmy Coon and someone of that stature and that Pedigree of of bloodshed You could be 30 years 40 years 50 years removed from it and it It's gonna be difficult for that for just the time lapse factor Plain in your favor in terms of getting out at least that's I mean Larry Hoover, who's the most notorious black or African-American crime lord in America or alleged crime word You know he's been in since 1973 And and he's tried numerous times to Fight his way out and they just won't have it and we saw just this month Vick Vick Amuso boss of Lucchese crime family. He's 88 years old on his on death's bed Yeah, wanted to come home early. They won't let him. So if I was an odds maker. I wouldn't put the odds Great greatly in Jimmy Coon and his favor But it's it's something for us to chop up and talk about and I think we're gonna use this as a way to give a little bit of history on on the Irish mafia in Hell's Kitchen and what eventually became known as the Westies, but it's a group that dates back, you know towards, you know in all For all intents and purposes of the dates back to like, you know stuff that you saw I'm like games Yeah, right. It's a good point. Yeah, if you want to go if you trace the DNA of it Yeah, I agree But you know this you know that that organization that doesn't exist anymore. We don't believe you know The the roots of of that particular era, you know, we're painted or we're planted rather back, you know prohibition Yeah, and Coon and I imagine He's probably not as old as you might think because one thing when I was prepping for this I was struck by in his heyday. He was actually a pretty young guy in his heyday So I know that was a long time ago, but he's probably not I don't think he's 88 like Amuso in other words, right? 76 76, okay, so so he would have been 30 in the mid 70s But when he was in his teen years, yeah, he was cutting his teeth For some, you know, major players in in in house kitchens Irish underworld. Yeah, okay So let's go back to the let's set the the stage here Let's go back to the 50s and 60s before the rise of Coon in and this in the so-called Westies We're looking at the Irish mob in Hell's Kitchen as Scott talks about this goes back a long way Irish neighborhood Although it was a mixed neighborhood. It wasn't exclusively Irish, but it was known as an Irish neighborhood and up until that point They're basically viewed as like these gentlemen racketeers policy bosses some some bookmaking and If you owed money, you might be in trouble But but for the most part these guys were not viewed by people in the neighborhood as ruthless gangsters or or crime lords and By the 1960s Mickey Spelane takes over and he's he's an important person in this narrative Should we point out that it started with a guy named Huey Mulligan? Yeah, who we mo yeah Huey Mulligan was the boss before before he was it wasn't Huey the one that was kind of Initially crafted that gentlemen gangster. Yeah persona. Yeah, he was like a politically connected guy Policy boss or like numbers bookmaking Not necessarily involved in the rough stuff that we think of with with the underworld and he was very popular in the neighborhood politically connected he is replaced by Mickey Spelane and Mickey Spelane is an interesting guy because he's able to really have a foot in both Kind of environments. He has a reputation. He continues that reputation as A guy who looks out for the neighborhood a gentleman racketeer. He was well-dressed popular guy well-liked He was married into a prominent political family local political family And by the way their wedding that was like a big to do in that in that neighborhood was like it was like royalty, you know and But more so than Huey Mulligan Spelane was also more gangsta Than Mulligan was even though Spelane did a good job of crafting this image of of a guy who was you know more of a low-key More polished. Yeah more polished, but he but he had you know Been charged for armed robbery assault. It was believed he was involved in murder So he was a guy that was not to be trifled with a little bit more intense than than what they were used to and in Hell's Kitchen and But but he's able to keep this reputation as a gentleman gangster The Irish control the the West Side docks and they also have a piece of the action at Madison Square Garden So we're talking about Manhattan if you've ever been to New York and know where that is But with all these lucrative rackets, he does have to Play nice with the Genovese Crime family, which is also known as the West Side. So they're in that in that area and That's that's a really important kind of subtext to this story because if the more ambitious Spelane gets the more potential he's going to get into trouble with with the Genovese and they do something Spelane's crew They do something that's pretty remarkable and I would say reckless They actually kidnapped one of the Genovese policy guys Yeah, go ahead Scott. I was it's a little Eli as a Cardi who you're talking about Yeah, and I just want to point out that he was more than just a Wrong on the ladder of the Genovese. He was a he was in the administration or an acting member of the administration Yeah, and when we talk about policy, we're talking about numbers. We're talking about the old lottery so It's remarkable that they decide to kidnap him and hold him for ransom and basically shake down the Genovese crime family so they kidnap them and They get the ransom and they kill them. They kill them anyhow. Yeah and so Immediately Spelane has a big target on his back now from from the Genovese But if that weren't bad enough for him This is still the late 1960s He's now starting to face opposition from within the neighborhood as well a group of young Turks and in a way I was talking to Scott about this before we started recording and In the way, I see a parallel with what happened with in Philadelphia with with Marlino and his guys these kind of Young Ruffians and that the primary person we're talking about here's again Jimmy Coonan But he's got this group of guys around him young guys and just like Marlino on those guys like They didn't get the memo that when you're when you're a young teenager that you're supposed to toe the line And that's your turn. I'd see the difference would be that the Marlino crew at least in terms of the mafia they were polished they were They were more uh, I know I don't know how I want to describe it more like street thugs is that right the Coonan and his crew were just they were like a rag tag. Yeah rogues a gallery of gritty vicious alcohol alcoholic killer gangsters, you know, Joey and his crew might might be like that at some Level, but but the layers and the veneer is is a little bit different. Yeah, I think that's a fair Yeah, that's a that's a fair point and I also want to swing out I can't I don't want to claim to be an expert on Eliza Cardi, but You know, there are people that claim that he wasn't just a Policy racketeer. He wasn't just an in the in the administration with the Genovese. There are people that say that he wasn't acting boss. I just want to be able to explain or contextualize the The balls if you will that it took for These Irish guys to Attack the Genovese in that way. I mean, like I said, this wasn't a this wasn't a situation like when you I know We do a lot of Sopranos references, but when when the war was going on between You know, Tony and the guys in New York, you know, they find Benny and they beat the shit out of Benny Oh, right. Yeah, right. That's a low That's a low-level guy to make a statement with But Eli's a Cardi little Eli Carmine's a Cardi's real name. That was a big fish that they took out You know, it was pretty pretty remarkable and I and I would say, you know, pretty reckless for them. So Splane has to You look out on on either side because as you point out Coonan and his this group of ruffians. He has They're they're they want to take over right? They do not want to to fall in line and You know pay tribute to to Splane and as you point out these guys are killers Like they weren't they weren't joking like they were this wasn't like something that like escalated I mean, they they were like right away like we're gonna fucking kill Splane take over They didn't make any like there's no subtlety There's their plans or designs so Splane has to has to lay low But I think I want to add something to this and then and then you could comment on this Scott Because this individual is gonna play a role in this story again later, but for now Jimmy Coonan, although he's he's with these young Irish guys in Hell's Kitchen. He also has already as a young man a connection to Some significant underworld players Specifically Ruby Stein who is like a prolific loan shark Genovese connected loan shark in that area and Jimmy Coonan Is also I don't know if you'd say moonlighting would be the way to put it as his bodyguard and Collector as a teenager as a teenager so he's He's got one foot in like the kind of the the rough and tumble streets of Hell's Kitchen But he's also getting some exposure to more sophisticated racketeering so Ruby Stein's gonna come up again later But do you have any any insight into Ruby Stein you want to well? I mean, I think Ruby start I'll just say that not to More of a tease than to give away What were about you know the ending of the story, but you know Mickey Splane and Ruby Stein were the old guard and Whatever their Relationships or connections were with the younger guys at one point Didn't matter by the time that you know, we reached the point in the story where things come to a head So I just think it you know The old school versus the new school and if you're somebody that is in the new school Looking to plant your own flag. I Don't think it it matters that Jimmy Coonan had come up under Ruby Stein. Yeah. Yeah, there's no sentimentality. Yeah That's what we'll discover. So There's also this interesting point that Coonan has a personal grudge with Splane because Splane's group had kidnapped Coonan's father, which is an interesting Biographical note about Coonan Even though what you would you look at Coonan's behavior at this point Coonan is not like he was born and like impoverished in like the you know The the the the bad side of town His parents were professionals is I think his dad was like a tax accountant or something like that so they they were by those standards of the 1960s, they were relatively middle-class and And So as a result he the father was targeted by Splane and his group to like shake him down and they kid I kidnapped him for a ransom. Yeah, yeah, and I guess they roughed him up And so Coonan remembered that as a kid again We like to compare these things to like cinema like it doesn't it doesn't remind you of something from a movie, right? That like the young kid would be like waiting Well, you know waiting and counting his days until he's old enough to avenge avenge the father Recribution for his old man. Yeah, because his father was humiliated. So he also has this personal grudge against Coonan and eventually this it rubs into a shooting war between Splane's guys and Coonan's guys and they they call it the the Coonan's plane wars and One thing I wanted to note this kind of cultural shift that I think is interesting in Hell's Kitchen at this time is This narrative really starts to shift from like these gentlemen racketeers to this is like gangland violence because Up until that point. Yeah, a guy might take a beating once in a while if he was behind on his payments Maybe a guy would disappear and you know people would keep it low-key even though everyone knew what happened But at this point, this is like a shooting war where they're targeting each other Let's see a guy coming out of a bar and they they fucking whack him and in other cases You know guys like bodies were getting hacked up body parts were being found and it was getting pretty gruesome and The the kind of perception in the neighborhood started this shift that maybe these aren't gentlemen racketeers Like this is some serious gangland shit. We're witnessing. I think there was another thing at play that will Evolve as the story goes on which is You see it went from Irish versus Italian and then the Italian influence Starts to make its way into the kitchen But not necessarily as rivals they see Coon in as an entry point into those rackets. So while Spelane was always at odds with the Genovese Who in and I think you know, he served some prison time I think in state prison syncing in syncing and I think he met a met met some guys there as well From the from his neighborhood that he didn't know or not from from certain Manhattan Italian factions and You know, that's a factor that didn't really come into play into the 70s when You had these these alliances, I guess that started to develop and it wasn't You know, it didn't necessarily come down between ethnic lines No, that's a good point. Yeah, I think and we're gonna expand on this soon But Jimmy Coon and was definitely more open-minded. Let's say about Collaborating with the Italians where one ain't viewed it as as basically competition, right? Or sell or selling out or selling out, right? He had a much explain had a much more complicated Relationship with the Italians than than Coon and dead as as we'll find out. So another thing that's interesting I think during this war is because this goes I think of this with the Sopranos too that that conflict you're talking about between Jersey and and the Johnny sacks family and the Lupertasi family Coon or Coonans guys who by the way in the press they start referring to as the Westies because of you know, the West End Hell's kitchen The Westies start shaking down all of Spelane's local operations because we mentioned Spelane had a piece of Madison Square Garden He had a piece of the docks, but there was also all the local stuff bookmaking loan sharking and Whatever kind of dope dealing was going on there that the Spelane controlled that and Cooner and his guys go to all the local bookies and dope dealers and loan sharks and say you pay us now you don't kick up to Spelane anymore or will kill you and Like you saw him in the Sopranos like basically It comes down to who are you more afraid of and the people on the street were more afraid of Jimmy Coon And so a lot of the people just like that basically just shifted Shift, I don't know loyalty is not the right word, but like Shifted their priorities and we're just like we're gonna kick up to the Westies now. It was really a What we call hostile takeover of the streets and and Spelane is on the run at that point wouldn't you be if you were a Store owner in Hell's Kitchen when you'd be more afraid of what Cooner and his guys could do to you Then what Spelane and his guys could do to you. Yeah Yeah, I mean and that goes back to also part of the perception of Spelane seemed like a diplomatic guy You could work with as opposed to Cooner who comes in crazy. I'd crazy. I'd kill her Isn't that more like balls in a china shop Kirby your enthusiasm. Remember crazy. I Know there's no like I said, there's no subtle to your diplomacy with those guys. So yeah, that people are afraid of them and But as you point out Coon and does end up doing some time So he is off the streets for a while which is which gives spelane a little bit a little bit more time He's there's a shooting and I don't think the person was killed, but they were seriously injured and I think Coon and does like four years or something like that for I don't know what you're the lawyer I don't know what that would be like aggravated assault or something like that with a weapon and he does some time at sing-sing and At this point, I think we should introduce another significant Person we've already mentioned this person once but while Coon and is away Mickey Featherstone Comes back to the neighborhood. Yeah, and Vietnam. Yeah, he was a Vietnam vet and he was serving over in Southeast Asia and he and we should point out that he had he joined the military for wartime service when he was like 16 he lied about his age Yeah, so he was in combat When most people were in high school Yeah, yeah, and he is a very tough individual We know from his psychiatric evaluations while he was in the US military they determined that he was unfit for service and They actually considered him psychotic so He is Looking for something to do let's say he gets home He actually wants to re-enlist and they won't let him because of the the psychiatric evaluation So keep an eye on him if you're following this story in the meantime Because Coon is off the streets Belayne is able to reorganize a bit and he's not he's not gone yet Unfortunately for him The Genovese are like well if Coon is gone and he ain't gonna take care of them Then we're gonna we're gonna come after him. So Going back to the zikardi Incident and so they hired my dog. They hire a mad dog Sullivan, right? Yeah, and you you want to talk about him a little bit because he's sort of another street legend in that Yeah, you know he what he was a irish hit man that was Didn't he take work from anybody and everybody He wasn't just doing hits for irish mob guys He was working a lot with the italians and doing hits around the country. Yeah, he's a freelancer. Yeah, so you know when when uh someone like mad dog Sullivan comes looking for you or or is retained by an organization to uh, you know wreck havoc on you you and your organization Back then most times it didn't turn out well for the person that was on the receiving end of of a assignment being given to mad dog Sullivan to Eliminate said competition Yeah, so he he actually does take out I think I think at least three of splayne's the guys in his inner circle They don't get to splayne himself, but they take out the guys in his inner circle mad dog selvin does so Again splayne is on the ropes at this point. He not only barely survived the conflict with kunan now the genovase are coming after him they take out his inner circle and um To make matters worse for splayne kunan is out of prison And he reacquaints himself with an old acquaintance Mickey feather stone and they they form an alliance And as you point out feather stone really becomes the number two for all intent and purpose of the westies at that point And then they get Back up from the gambinos and at that point it's game over For splayne right He squeezed on too many on too many sides at first it comes from you know An overture comes from roi de male who very infamous mob psychopath You know you could categorize him as a serial killer. I mean he wasn't he killed for fun. He was a scary guy Um, and he had his own crew known as like the gemini Gemini lounge crew Was a capo under paul castellano big money maker As well as a guy that they used for muscle assignments And uh, he had an underling named danie grillo who I think Kunan had met in syncing maybe i'm not positive, but it could be uh and and grillo Reaches out and says you know de male wants to Have a meeting of the minds Yeah, and we some more shameless self-promotion if you listen to some of our Episodes we've done with anthony aeroloda who was a member of the the springfield crew of the Uh, genovese family in massachusetts He said in that area on the east coast Italian and irish guys do a lot of time together and they become friendly with each other and then Those those friendships extend to the streets in terms of business collaborations and things like that So this is not like an unusual situation where an irish dude and italian dude would would meet in prison Find common ground and then once on the streets, you know Reestablish that network. Um the male Serves as a bridge To castellano Right, and now you're playing with the big boys now. You're right now. You're playing with the big boys so part of the logic was Um cunan knows that splaine is on the ropes, but cunan also recognizes I think scott and i'm really interested in like underworld politics And how this like chess game is played cunan recognizes that If he removes splaine, it's not like all of his problems are solved because there's still the genovese Looming large in that neighborhood. So as scott points out cunan makes this really smart pre-emptive move which is to go to the gambinos and get their cosine Get their cosignage and it goes from I don't even want to say I don't know if it started as one thing and became another But it's pretty clear that This wasn't a situation where it was just some type of protection arrangement. This was like a corporate take the way that That cunan and them tried to hostile the Launched a hostile takeover This wasn't hostile, but you had the gambinos absorbing The irish mob is like a merger a merger if we want to you were gonna Right, we're gonna make you the the irish hell's kitchen wing of the gambino. I think that's what I think that's how it was right Yeah, I think I think that's a good way to put it and as you point out He already had these connections with guys like like grillo and demaeo and it's really interesting how audacious audacious Cunan is because in the middle of this like diplomatic Maneuvering with the gambinos which I want to get to the sit down with castellano in a moment But before before that happens Cunan it's really remarkable that he thinks that this is a good idea, but he got away with it His mentor ruby stein who he was Before he went to prison was a collector and bodyguard for who's a big deal in in that in that area Especially especially his shylock business is like one of the biggest, right? And and and cunan's good with the guy right he worked for him. That was his mentor cunan decides that we're gonna kill him And then take his shy business And that'll be like kind of some startup money for us to really be able to play Well, that would be the money's that'll be the money that we can filter to castellano and company and get in their good graces Yeah, get their attention. Yeah and This wasn't something that this I think it can't be overstated that And it will play out as the years go on. This wasn't something that cunan resisted This was something that cunan Embraced oh he wanted to have the gambinos um co-signing or affiliation or alliance A because it gave him more muscle than he'd ever had before but also There was a cache to it. It was a status symbol And at that point the gambinos were arguably the you know, the most powerful family in In the country Yeah, I think that's a that's a really interesting point that this is the 1970s early 1970s to mid 1970s and He cunan actually would articulate this to hit the guys around him like this ain't The old school where like the irish can can be insulated and the irish can just be like uh provincial like the italians are the game in town Right now and if we want to survive and if we want to prosper we need to Have a relationship and have more of the relationship that we had previously Precisely, so I think that that's interesting that he had that insight because you it's hard to argue with that um With that um logic at that point and he has the gambinos actually whack ruby stein right Yeah, I um Well, I think I think actually um it's I think ruby stein it was still the westies that that did it um because castellano actually Asks cunan about it like if they if they they did it the the gambinos are going to take out someone significant and momentarily in the story, but um They kill ruby stein and it's pretty gruesome. I've been if you want to put up the the image of the newspaper headline I was I was confusing two different heads. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah So Again, I think scott already mentioned this ruby stein is a big deal. Uh, he's obviously not italian But he's a prominent jewish underworld figure And he's a big deal. And so when he is murdered this is his front page news and The uh westies take over the action and um And he was he was tied to jigs forlano who ruby stein was kicking up to forlano and who What family was was he a genovese or um? Colombo origin of a cell find out in a second. Okay um I think what scott was talking about that the gambinos allegedly killed was on may 13th 1977 Mickey splaine is is finally killed people have been gunning for him for a long time as we've established and I think it's interesting when you look at it from a forensic perspective because Mickey splaine knows that mad dog sullivan and the genovese are coming after him He knows that kunan's coming after him and now that kunan's backed by the gambinos Jigs was a jigs was a colombo. Okay, so ruby was definitely connected guys Um, so splaine is laying low. He knows people are gunning for him. So Someone lures him out of his house. I think he's unarmed. He doesn't have a bodyguard with him So somebody presumably somebody he trusted gave him up lures him out to the street and They whack him So splaine is out of the way and I think this is what scott was thinking of with with the gambinos is uh I think demayo and grillo go to kunan and we're like mary christmas or something something like that that Now you are 100 in charge of hell's kitchen. We made sure of that and as a result the big guy would like to have We'll have to have your audience audience with you big ball the pope the pope Right big poly castellano and as you point out That's no joe. That's not like some random connected guy that you did time with in the joint, you know an associate or soldato Um, castellano is you're being called the way that you're being called the white house, right? He's arguably one of the most powerful uh, mafiosi in the in the country, um, even internationally at at that point And so they have a meeting and let's let's also point out that this was something that Made jimmy kunan very happy. I mean It wasn't like he was leery of going to meet castellano or wanted to make sure that Yeah, you know politically they had all their ducks in a row so they could go and negotiate with it No, he went with you know with bells on Running towards castellano because he knew That castellano wanted to you know to embrace him And and he wanted to be embraced by by a big Italian mafia No, he he totally viewed this as a coup like this was like I mean a big deal for him. Um, we're scoring points here because Featherstone and those guys were telling kunan. Are we sure we want to do this? Like what if this is a setup? What if they're what if they're gonna whack us and to your point kunan is like we're fucking crazy Like this is what we've want. This is what we've wanted. It's literally a seat at the table Yeah with with castellano. Della croach Um, I there's some other game being on heavyweights there. I can't remember who the other guys were Other administrators at the I know Della croach and castellano were obviously there and kunan is like this is what we've wanted So they go and this is another kind of interesting cultural shift is Now that they're getting a seat at the table literally with castellano Kunan and Featherstone show up Suit and tie. Yeah Well, then eventually with with uh Kunan he he moves out of health kitchen moves to new jersey We're all uh, or there were a lot of you know, italian mob administrators that were living out of this out of the city Uh coming into the city to do business but but living in new jersey And like you said they started dressing acting talking wearing pinky rings And it and it didn't necessarily play well with the rank and file back in health's kitchen. No, I I agree And so I want to get to that in a moment, but Just a few more details coming out of the the first conference that they have with each other I like I like this like castellano like this. This is boss move like it's not like a negotiation castellano Just tells him you're with us now You're with us now as you point out you're gonna be the irish crew of the gambinos like this isn't a negotiation And we're not asking and by the way, you should thank me Thank me for this Buddy, which was like, yeah, I I agree. That's what this was all about That's that's why I wanted to fuck with you guys in the first place. Like this is incredible cosigning and so The castellano lays out the details again. It's non-negotiable Says from now on we get 10 percent of all your action in health's kitchen the the gambling the shy the uh dope anything like that we get 10 percent of But this is the key for this is why this is important for jimmy coon and not only in terms of status, but economically the Castellano says and also you will get in on our construction and labor Rackets and as you know people that follow this show know about the underworld That's where the real money is right. It ain't no no jobs It ain't necessarily shaking down fucking deadbeat gamblers, right? Who wants to do that all day? skim union cough skim labor union coffers and no show jobs, right? When you could get in on that and and uh, you know, uh, no No bid contracts for construction and things like that coon is smart enough to recognize That's a much more lucrative These are much more lucrative opportunities than just shaking down fucking, you know deadbeat People that own or own own bars in health's kitchen Shaking down right borrow taverns and uh in health's kitchen so it's a pretty smart move by Coonan but I think this is really fascinating as as you've already mentioned but Coonan maybe takes it a little bit too far for like the rank and file because He moves out of the neighborhood and he really starts exclusively associating with the Italians and you know feather stones one of the few guys that have access to him and coonan Basically becomes pretty aloof and house kitchen like he's not around anymore. He's not like the local don And he's not worried about it It's not something that's causing him great consternation that the boys back home are starting to lose faith in him or or judging him or might try to Rally against him. He he says he thinks himself even if that's true. I got castellano on my back. Good luck If you want to rally against me right if you want to make a move. Yeah What is it? What does tony say back to the Sopranos when he says well if someone doesn't like it make a move What was that was that what was that situation with tony's was that with richie? No when um, yes No, uh silvio says something to tony about like some there's some like Rumblings with the rank and file like are upset with how you're doing No, it was about it was when he was protecting his cousin Oh, and then was it tony's like he wouldn't give up He wouldn't he wouldn't give up tony b to leotardo. Yeah, and then tony says if someone doesn't like it They can make a move or something like that. So that's sort of kunan's attitude, right? Yeah, um But yeah, the the rank and file are Not only annoyed including feather stone by the way are annoyed with this because a Kunan is acting italian. He's moved out of the neighborhood He's not like mickey spleen which again was sort of miss spleen was sort of like this local irish don man about town Kissing babies shaking hands in the neighborhoods kunan's not like that. He's a you know, there's like absentee Crime, well, kunan thinks that he's a member of the gambino crime family right now And he wants to go hang out in italian social clubs and eat at italian restaurants and And be seen in manhattan with big-time gambinos Right, right and and this alienates the rank and file not only on a cultural level But also on a financial level because kunan's to the extent that he gives a shit as you point out I'm not sure he was that concerned But to the extent feather stone or others bring this to his attention He's like look at we have this lucrative deal with the gambinos like why why why should anyone complain about this? And the rank and file we're saying you have A lucrative deal benefiting benefiting you it's not benefiting me right the construction and labor raggets They let you in on but that's not trickling. That's not trickling down To the guys on the street who are still shaking down the tavern whole person, you know selling nickel bags or whatever so There's already this kind of tension um emerging even though like you said kunan's on cloud nine because of this this relationship and um Meanwhile kunan still has this impulsive um What would say pension for violence? Yeah, yeah, so you know if he if he does run into a guy at the bar that he doesn't like Or a guy that talks shit He doesn't hesitate to pistol whip the guy beat the guy And and eventually there's another shooting uh that they get in trouble for they don't get convicted of murder But kunan does take a gun possession He does get pinched for gun possession and feather stone Around the same time takes a pinch for counter fitting. Um, and so they both go away. They're both off the street but This relationship with the gambinos is so cemented that really business just goes on as usual There's a couple of other high-ranking westies that just step in and really business goes on as usual with the gambinos It should be pointed out that they they use their wives Yes as conduits to the gambinos they trusted Yeah, mickey and jimmy trusted their significant others to not just hold the house down when they're gone but Hold the whole organization down and it it's uh, it's you know, tailor made for hollywood and there's been at least two movies in the last five years that were um At the very least inspired by that story one directly called the kitchen with melissa mccarthy I never saw it, but it's clearly based on that um the one that I did saw that I liked which was Moved into modern times and take place in chicago was called widows with viola davis and liam nissan uh, but both of the both those films the plot point was that these women take over for their gangland Boss husbands that have to go to prison Yeah, let's talk that story from the from the westies. That's a great point. Yeah I was seeing these high ranking westies guys But but that you're absolutely right those guys were actually still just the muscle the wives featherstone and kudin's wives We're actually calling the shots and keeping things And communicating a great point and keeping keeping communication in some way Well, some shape or form with the gambinos. I mean, they weren't going to meet with paul castellano. No, but they were still Yeah, uh coordinating with yeah, and and that's interesting that this I don't want to digress too much But females in the underworld we're seeing this um, some examples of this in in italy, uh, even in sicily, uh, but also calabria and uh, caponia with the comorra that Even though these are like real machismo cultures, right women obviously can't be initiated into these societies, but So many guys either get killed or end up in prison That you've gotten to this point of attrition where like in some cases It just makes more sense for the wives to become the shock callers for all intent and purpose because a Not everyone has access to these guys in prison some of them are in max security prison, but the wives still have access to them And uh, they have the pedigree usually usually the wives are really are like the daughters of someone else who's who's juiced in And so, um, it's a really interesting situation where this macho culture and yet these these women Have this elevated status and it tied back into today. This is just me speculating I would guess that whoever has to make that decision about whether kunan can come home or not It doesn't play in his favor that he's coming home to somebody that is that one time was a co-conspirator It wasn't just his wife and she's 80 years old. She's four years older than him So I doubt that the eight-year-old julia kunan and 76 year-old jimmy kunan if he was released In the near future would be going out and running rackets out of new jersey But I doubt it Yeah, if he had a what if he had someone that he was coming home to that didn't have a criminal record it probably would Work more in his favor, but I'd I guess yeah, and just uh some uh foreshadowing of an episode we're gonna do soon This idea of females in the underworld, um, the great reporter debora banello is going to be on soon She wrote a book narcas the secret rise of women in latin america's cartel So we're gonna explore this more soon on the show, but anyhow, um, yeah, so so things are The machine keeps on uh churning here, but A couple of things complicate the situation a Featherstone himself has pretty much had enough of kunans like i'm just an italian guy and with the gambinos They view him as is too greedy also not only is fucking with the italians too much But being too greedy, but then the wives start feuding with each other as well. It actually like really like some really public Um confrontations at like parties like holiday parties and things like that because they're all part of the same social Circle where they really get into it with each other the wives. I think at one point Featherstone's wife even like threatens to kill Threatens to kill kunan's wife's wife. Yeah, so um things are um Getting complicated some other complications Related to the gambinos is roi dumeo Gets gets killed. You want to talk about that situation? He just became more uh trouble than he was worth in castellano's mind and He there's there's just was a lot of exposure He you were you were killing killing guys at a clip that was really uh raising I used the term raising red flags for the for the uh authorities, but You know it it became Very conspicuous and it wasn't a secret where these bodies a were were ending up uh or Who was responsible for it? Uh, he got caught in a big, um Stolen car ring case that were where he was I think they were moving cars outside of the united states like I don't I don't want to speak to it as someone that knows all the particulars, but it involved international law where where uh The stealing cars chop shops stuff being sent to the middle east to um and castellano thought that the dumeo could open up on him Yeah, and and um as you point out right his his his act was getting old of being like the the psychotic and for a while castellano like viewed it as An asset that dumeo was close to him and he was so feared right that he might be a psychopath But he's my psychopath right and people are afraid of him, but eventually that act got old um, and so Dumeo is killed But danny marino becomes kunan's new contact and marino assures kunan This has no bearing on our relationship. You were you know, you and dumeo were tight But this says like as far as we're concerned its business as usual and And that's what and that's what happens And so kunan is able to hold things down for a while But then in 1985 something else happens that could potentially disrupt this relationship. It actually doesn't But big paul castellano Is killed and everyone who watches this show or listens to this show knows that story John goddy, you know puts together this conspiracy with gravano and other high-ranking members and they um move against castellano castellano was killed in it's december I can't remember the exact date. I don't know if you remember the date. He's killed him It's december outside of castellano was killed on my parents wedding anniversary december 6th. This is the coincidence Yeah, december 16 1985. Yeah, so outside of spark steakhouse well-known, um kind of a high-end restaurant in manhattan and so this is potentially another disruption to this relationship, but it actually isn't because kunan and goddy have a sit-down And they're like two peas in a pod, right? He ends up actually having a stronger relationship with with with goddy Versus castellano because as you point out castellano still had this sort of regal kind of uh aura about him Castellano alienated himself from his troops. So right right in a similar way that kunan was doing his rank and file But castellano Even though he was working with kunan, you know castellano. He sort of still had this sort of pretentious Kind of attitude to kunan. Whereas goddy viewed kunan. It's like this is my this is my kind of guy, right? We're two peas in the pod. So kunan is actually Probably more comfortable. I would say we're working with goddy than he is with castellano and Goddy gives the westies the contract for john o'connor right who was union. Yeah, uh a union guy Who uh, I I can't remember all the details that he sent guys to beat o'connor's Yeah, o'connor sent some guys to his guys beat up some guys that were connected to the gambinos or something like that Yeah, I just want to Point out. I'm not I just looked up. I'm not positive if demaeo was facing a case at the end of his life I think he was but For the most part He had like 40 open homicides Where feds and local authorities were deep diving the gemini lounge crew and And that's three over three dozen bodies. Yeah, so Either again, I don't want to claim to be an expert on roi demaeo, but I also don't want people to be chiming in in the comments that we got it wrong but uh, just know that, you know Castellano wanted to cut ties from demaeo because demaeo had become too much of a headache and presented, you know Too much exposure on on the gambino higher ups because they've been the ones that have been giving the demaeo crew a lot of those contracts a lot of them have been just demaeo on its own too, but I think there were 38 open homicide investigations in the early 80s that were tied to uh the demaeo crew and Castellano just Didn't want to deal with it. He tried to give the contract to john goddy God he didn't want to take the contract because he was worried. I'm afraid of him, wasn't he upset? We're thinking if he missed Or if he was successful that he'd have demaeo loyalists wanting to Um, get retribution. I eventually gave it to frankie jichiko. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, demaeo wasn't someone to be to be trifled with So I didn't mean that I just wanted to make sure we go ahead. Oh, that's good. Um So I want to be I want to be um, I want to restate something I don't think they gave the contract to the westies to kill o'connor They wanted the westies to to rough him up But the westies decided we're just gonna kill them So back to this idea of them be kind of rogue even as even as they connected to the gambino's are um, you can only um You know, I'm not sure how much you can civilize. Uh, uh, I don't know if that's the right way to put The westies are who they are, right? And so they can wear pinky rings and go to these fancy Italian restaurants But like there's still some tough motherfuckers who like killing people So they're supposed to send a message to o'connor, but they try to kill them They shoot them several times and I think o'connor survives I believe he was a kill because he was called. He was supposed to testify against godi I think and he doesn't do it. I forgot he remember the The the newspaper had line but So the westies find themselves in this, you know, this Potential pickle where the gambino said we said beat the guy up not not kill him um meanwhile Featherstone and the other top westies guys at kevin kelly jimmy mckelroy They decide that we just have to take out coonan for these Things that we've already established coonan's too aloof. He's too greedy. He's he's more worth the italians than he is with us And I think we should also point out It's really interesting And I think there's a comparison with like whitey bulger's group when you talk about the irish mob The westies had a lot of juice for a crew of it's not like it's not like we're talking about a crime family of 60 70 guys I mean it was basically around 20 guys 20 guys, yeah of uh, and they had like associates and things like that too but in terms of like hardcore westies We're only talking about a group of like 20 guys, but they were they were pretty pretty scary dudes And so they had um, you know a lot more juice than you might expect for a crew of 20 guys But some of the other high-ranking guys or at least guys that that have more stature And featherstone decide to move against coonan And it's sort of interesting. I think politically because back to this kind of impulsive thing where at least coonan was was I think a guy who was strategizing And thinking about things like on a chessboard My understanding is that featherstone and those guys are just like we're tired of Jimmy's fucking high, uh highfalutin Bullshit hanging out the italians. We're just gonna kill him and we're not they're not even thinking about okay Well, maybe what the ramification what the ramifications? God he doesn't like that. What if the gambitos move against us? They don't even they don't even think about that It's just like well then a Kill coonan The god he put it We said at the beginning of the show You know who replaces coonan when he's off the streets one of goddies guys vasco. Yeah. Yeah, sorry But featherstone eventually gets jammed In 86 or 87 Uh, and they convince him to flip Yeah, so they don't kill coonan they they um, they actually have hit squads looking for him, but they can't they can't find him And in the meantime, right featherstone. I think it was a riko case if i'm not mistaken I can't remember the particulars of what he gets jammed up for It's wreckage. He's racketeering. Okay, so um, he starts cooperating with the feds and that you know that that's bringing us to the to the end here It's basically like the I mean go through the other parallels here sammy gravano flipping Stevie flummy uh, uh, you know the philionetti, right? Like when the number two go by mafia prince if you haven't Great book salvatally in the banana like when the number two guy flips um You're pretty much toast if you're if you're the boss, right? It's checkmate and mickey featherstone You know to do this kind of compare and contrast again We're now almost 40 years removed from the heyday um Jimmy coons fighting for his freedom in his 70s mickey featherstone's been free for 30 years 25 30 years, I think he many than 10 years um And he's living somewhere in the united states, you know 74 years old. I think 75 years old and uh Has been free for for quite a while living under, you know, uh Uh a new identity and I think you If I'm if you don't mind me saying I think you had some kind of communication with him or his camp about him coming on show But it just didn't it just didn't he disappeared his nephew reached out a couple years ago um I'd love for if you're listening Yeah Contact us again. We'd love to have mickey on to talk about uh his time in the west east and you know his is taking all of this but uh Yeah, he's out there somewhere out out there somewhere just like filly and eddie. You know when I when I was writing Phil's book I never Went to where he was. I still don't know where he lives. I don't know what his name is now You know, he was brought to me and I met him at you know hotels in different cities uh But you know, these guys don't uh They don't disappear. They're they're still You know flesh and blood they're just living under an assumed identity in another part of the country and trying to Either forget about it or put all the the nasty violence and macavelian conspiracies, uh, you know in in their past well and phil And grevano some of these guys tell their story. I don't think featherstone has ever gone public So it would be interesting to hear from him and some and grevano show or whatever grevano is really public at this Yeah, right, right. No, of course. So let's just have an obituary here. What the the westies don't go away necessarily when kunan is incarcerated you want to like kind of put the Yeah, you know remnants of the group still existed. Uh, I don't want to pronounce but I don't know how to pronounce basco's last name But he's he's like eastern european Yeah, I don't even think he was irish. Right. I think you're right, but it was kind of put in there uh He Led what was left of them for a period of time But I I don't really think there's a functioning new york irish organized crime group anymore and I don't think there has been for A couple decades. No, I don't I don't think so and part of that was Just like you said, these guys going to prison and then and it ends up being a guy who's not even irish Who takes over what's left and held in the neighbor just changed I was gonna say Point out the fact that house ain't house kitchen ain't house kitchen anymore. Right, right completely gentrified. It's it's not Yeah, the demographics changed. Yeah, it has zero zero zero. Uh, it has zero um There's nothing at the core era of The westies that neighborhood There's nothing that looks like that anymore. I mean, it's a complete 180 Uh of what's going on in those neighborhoods it those neighbors don't even lend themselves to You know organize crime activity even if somebody was inclined to try to Be organized Yeah, I think just to say something to finish this up about irish american organized crime by the way a lot of the information Shout out to tj english paddy whack the untold story of the irish american gangster And he wrote a book just about the westies which is a lot more a lot more detailed, but Um, there aren't many irish gangsters left in north america. There's still some in boston holding it down Um, but west west end crew in montreo and west end crew in montreo But even in boston the irish ma it's not the same as it was but there's still some irish guys But but that's about it. I mean, um Philly's philly's irish mob is you know gone dead and gone. Yeah, I mean you you still have Gangsters who are irish american but in terms of like Being part of a irish crew or irish organized crime Uh group I that's not many examples left And I you know as we wrap up here If you're interested in this and you want a hollywood adaption state of great a state of grace Is a incredibly underrated oc movie in my opinion. Yeah, it's good It's a fictionalized version of the westies, but it's pretty much The story we just told you um, and it stars ed harris as a character based on jimmy clunan and gary oldman With a character that's I think somewhat based on making feather stone, but in the movie their brothers Uh and shan penne is actually the lead in it And he plays a guy from the neighborhood that leaves becomes a cop And then comes back without the the hell's kitchen neighborhood knowing knowing that this Character that he plays is now an undercover police officer and he uh infiltrates Ed Harris's operation And they have all all of the interactions with the italians are are great. There's a scene where Uh ed harris is meeting with the paul castellano character and he's eating a bread stick Oh, yeah, and he's like leaving crumbs Yeah, and the the the mafia nine is basically all you irish guys. You're a bunch of slobs Do I need to have you know someone come and clean up for you? Uh, like a belittling comment Right, and and this is what rubs the rank and file the wrong way because ed harris is just he just pretty much takes it, right, right Uh, so it's a great film. It's uh It's the movie that shan penne met his wife robin right at She plays the love interest and it's one of the first movies for john c riley Who plays I don't remember him, but he's in that. I don't even yeah, he plays one of the the mob guys that's Formerly friends with a shan penne and then when shan penne comes back kind of links back up with him I don't even remember that. Yeah, and he's in gangs of new york, which is another eye, right? Well, now he's a big time actor back then. Yeah, one of his first roles and he's really good in it Um, gary oldman's outstanding awesome everything he does is good usually There's a scene where they play the a guns and roses sweet child of mine as he's beating the living daylights out of a Guy that had spoken to his girlfriend in the wrong way gary oldman's great intro romance. Yeah. Oh, that's his In detroit, he's supposed to be in detroit Right, right. He's great. I like almost everything. He's done dress. So yeah, so check out state of grace if you've never seen it Uh, another little nugget of information the reason that that movie has gotten lost is You can you can trace it back to one very specific thing It opened the same weekend goodfellas opened In 1990 so That no chance you lost got lost in the shadow from day one. Um, I discovered it 15 years after that or maybe 10 years after that and I love it But again, it's a fictionalized version of this story and I think it's a it's a it'd be a good, uh a good Two hours of of time devoted to that if you if you're interested in great, uh gangster movies Yeah, I I like that film as well and um, we um, and again, we just to wrap up here. We like to talk about all sorts of Groups, right? It's not just the five families or other cosinostra groups irish organized crime Black organized crime and gangs drug cartels russian mafia Right now you're watching this the week before we just dropped an episode on the pagans motorcycle club So we like to talk about all aspects of of the underworld and uh, we enjoyed doing that. So this was thanks It was it was really fun. I like these historical case studies. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening I'm jimmy butchilado. I'm Scott Bernstein and we're out