 Okay, I think it is time to start the session. Welcome everyone. Could I have the next slide? So welcome everyone to this online session. For us it's the first session of this community-based adaptation conference. So it's of course for all of us still getting used to doing this virtually while not being able to see and interact with our audience, but it's great to have all of you here. And so what are we going to do today? So first of all we'll start with an introduction of ourselves and of yourselves participants in this in the sessions. Then we will look at an introduction of business case development and as part of the introduction of business case development the use of the business canvas can be very useful. So we use this opportunity to give you a brief introduction of the business canvas. Then we have an introduction of the Dragon's Den. And with that my presentation is over and we will open the floor for questions about this topic which is probably fairly new to many of us. So we'll have plenty of time for discussion and questions. And then the last 15 minutes of the session we will try to hear from you to what extent you have a project that you would like to pitch on Wednesday of this conference. Next slide please. So who are we? This is the team that is currently focusing on this session. The team that is working from an expertise of conservation finance. We are working for IUCN and Jesper Hernberg is supporting us in pitch advice. So he's the expert in how to pitch, why to pitch, how to go about it. And Jesper will lead a session tomorrow late afternoon that will help you to improve your pitch and to know how to best present your project. Next slide please. So we would like to hear from you who are you and maybe give an indication if you're part of the younger group of people that we of course hope to attract especially with this session. And maybe you can also briefly say something about your experience with the CBA conference in the past or other conference that that you have been part of and that you have learned from. So I would just like to quickly open the floor. Please open your videos if possible and just give us a little idea of who you are and why you are participating. I slowly start to see your faces. Very exciting. Monisha, would you like to start? Sure. Good morning everyone. I am Monisha Sreshta. I am with the Practical Action working as the thematic lead for sustainable agriculture and markets and I'm based out of Kathmandu, Nepal. So namaste greetings to you all from Kathmandu. I wish I could say I was I am younger than 35 at heart, I may be, but not in terms of age. This is my first CBA that I've attended but I've worked extensively in the agriculture sector in the market systems development. So in a way I am a little familiar with the business planning, business canvas, but I just wanted to brush up my knowledge and just get updated on what's going on, especially learn how we can use this tool when it comes to adaptation project. So I'm very much looking forward to learning from all of you and I'm happy to be here. Nice to meet you all. Thank you and probably I should just pass it on to Yen. Thank you. Thanks a lot for this enthusiastic introduction. Who else would like to introduce him or herself briefly? Hi everyone. My name is Joffrey Kateriga. I'm based in Kampala in Uganda. I work with an organization called the Humanitarian Open ScriptMap team where I work as a community manager. I'm here to learn and be inspired. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Joffrey. Who's next? I guess Shibimiya. Hi. Good morning. Good morning. My name is Chikumbutsu Kilembe. I am from Malawi. I work for the Irish Embassy in Lirongue, Malawi. I will be just turning 35 this year in December. So I don't know if I'm younger than 35 anymore, but that counts for me. Okay. So I have attended, I attended the CBA in Addis Ababa last year. So that's why when I attended the session of the Dragon 10, I got interested because I have interests in business plan development, especially the social enterprises that work on energy, energy solutions for the poor, as well as solving the problem of waste management in urban areas. So my idea of a business project that can be an adaptation project as well as the business at the same time is that which will turn waste into energy. I'm interested in that kind of business. Thank you so much. Are you going to pitch? Do you think this this time? Not this time. I think this time I would want to hear more from what others are doing before I pitch my own. Maybe I can be convinced otherwise. Okay. Okay. Let's see. Let's see. Okay. Thanks. Thanks for the introduction. Thank you so much. Who's next? Do you get me, Yann? Hi. Yes. Hi, Yann. So this is Ashish. I'm from Bangladesh. So currently I'm working as the program manager for climate change and DRF for health adults who is in the corporation. Okay. I know that I do like around 35, but I have crossed it. Okay. And well, this is for the first time in CBA. And to tell the truth, I registered for other sessions, but I was in the waiting list. That was easy. Okay. But I'm very happy to see you all here. And well, I have worked with few projects that we have actually tried to apply the community-based entrepreneurship and like that. So yeah, have some ideas on businesses. So let's see to hear with your idea and how I can imagine it all. My most interest will be learning actually about the dragon dance and how it works so that I can apply in the later round. Okay. Nice meeting you again. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks a lot. I have a quick question, Debbie, to you. Is it possible to put the system in such a way that the person who talks shows up as the main screen? Yes, of course I can do that. Great. Thanks. Debbie is supporting us with the technology. Sorry for interrupting. So who's next? This is much more interesting than my presentation. It's much more interesting to learn what everyone is doing. All right. Good morning, everyone. Good morning. My name is Habiba Fora. I am from Garisa, Kenya as the northern part of Kenya. I work with Haki Nashiriya Initiative. It's a human rights organization, but I'm focused on our environmental justice project that works with pastoral communities around extractive sites. And we're trying to build their resilience and adaptation to climate change. I am fortunately younger than 35. Still, thank God. So I have a lot to do. Before I get to 35, this is my first CBA. I had about the last year's dragon dance. And it sounded very exciting. So I thought I could join this one. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Thank you. We're looking forward to your participation. Thank you. Thanks. Anyone else who would like to introduce him or herself? Good morning. Jesse, good morning. Someone else is going to speak then? Yeah, please go ahead. Someone else who just now spoke. Please go ahead. Jesse, you go first. Okay. Okay, great. I think that may have been Elisa. So thank you, Elisa. Yes. So my name is Jesse, and I'm based in Geneva, Switzerland. I'm actually from the U.S., though. I'm over 35, but I do work with a social enterprise that is a startup. It's called PlanAdapt. A couple of us are here at CBA, and this is my third CBA, actually. Okay. So I'm looking forward to hear about, I guess, the business canvas and the type of work within the context of CBA, of course. So community-based adaptation. Yeah. Thank you. Great. I'm looking forward to it. Elisa? Sorry, I interrupted you earlier. Yeah, it's okay. So I'm Elisa Vendela-Shon from Philippine Red Cross. I was working with the Philippine Red Cross for almost 15 years. We are doing different D.R.R. and CCE activities here, but I was also working in one of the volunteer groups, which is a youth-led community group working with different community-based projects and small-scale livelihood programs. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Very interesting. Anyone else? If not, then we will have... Sorry? No, there's Jesper here, Jan. I just thought I'd... Since everyone is introducing themselves so nicely, I'll just mention... I'm Jesper that Jan mentioned before, and I'll work with you tomorrow after noon late on the pitching, how to structure that and what to think about. Not my first CBA. I was in Adith last year, also working with Jan and his colleagues then. It's a pleasure to see you all. I'm very excited about the stories you have. I look forward to working with you. Thanks, Jesper. So, yes, let's ask from the team that is making this possible. Let's give a quick introduction as well. Maybe, Fani, would you like to quickly say something? An introduction from the team? No, for yourself. Oh, yeah. Oh, sorry. I was still reading the chat, because also in the chat there are two participants that introduced themselves. But, yeah. So, my name is Fani Vergara. I'm a colleague of Jan Willem, the ambassador in the IHNNL office. And, well, together we form a team that's working on the mobilization of climate finance and working towards climate resilient landscapes in, well, from our part in Uganda and Ghana, but together with colleagues from the WWF and with Topenbos International and even more countries and landscapes. And, yeah, I guess that's it. Oh, and this is my first time to attend the CBA. Thanks, Alexandra. Just putting my video back on. I am Alex. I'm helping out with the organization behind the scenes of pulling this session together. So, I'm really listening in. I'm really passionate about sustainability and climate-based adaptations. So, yeah, excited to hear what different opinions are and what people have to say. Thanks, Becky. Hi, everyone. I'm Becky and I'm the rapporteur for this session. You may have seen my name around because I'm helping with the CBA 14 team in general behind the scenes to kind of make sure everything's running smoothly. So, that's me and you. I look forward to hearing all of your opinions in this session and hearing some of your projects and pictures. And it sounds really exciting. I can't wait. Thanks. Thanks a lot. And last but not least, Debbie. Hi, yeah. I'm Debbie. I'm all things tech. So, I'm looking out to the Zoom and I'm part of the event industry, but a big conversation at the moment in the industry is about sustainability and the environment. So, it'll be really interesting to see what stuff you guys are coming up with. Okay. Thanks. Thank you. So, let's go ahead with the presentation, which won't be very long, but I could have the next slide. Oops. I'm just trying to, yeah, to have the maximum size for myself as well. So, we will briefly look at what you can expect from the Dragon's Den this week, because this is the first session out of four that are related to the Dragon's Den that's going to be organized on Wednesday. Then we will look at the business canvas, how this tool can help you to develop your project into something bigger, something that can attract new types of finance. And then, finally, most importantly, the last part of the session we will discuss with you, hopefully, what your project looks like, what the potential is for finding new types of finance, develop a business case, or maybe your organization doesn't do that, but maybe the organizations and the communities that you work with have the potential to develop a business idea. Next slide, please. So, we would like to emphasize that this is very much an exchange. Also, the pitching event, the Dragon's Den itself is not just about winning, it's also about sharing our experiences and sharing our networks. It is active learning, so I'm trying to talk as little as possible, but really try to hear from you and create the space where you, as a group of practitioners and experts, can know each other and continue the discussion and the joint learning and working after this session as well. And as we do that in the context of this conference, of course, we will also work on a collective understanding of the challenges that we face in our work, but especially, of course, a collective understanding of how we overcome these challenges and improve and expand our solutions. Next slide, please. So, central to this session is something that we call the finance gap. As we probably all know, there is a lot of climate finance around, finance internationally that is meant to make climate adaptation and climate mitigation possible. But as we see that, at the moment, already an estimated $500 billion or more is being put into climate projects, we see that only at the very most 10%, only 10% of these billions of US dollars are actually reaching the local levels where we work with local NGOs, where we all work with local communities on climate solutions. So it's an incredible small amount that actually reaches the levels of the people that really face the greatest impact of climate change. And another statistic is that only 20% of global climate finance is reaching adaptation projects. And as we all know, adaptation is super important because the impacts of climate change are now being seen and felt everywhere. So these statistics about large amounts of money available, but very little actually reaching the ground, reaching communities, and very little reaching adaptation shows that there is an imbalance, there's a gap between projects that we all work on that often focus specifically on adaptation with local communities, community-based adaptation projects. There are a lot of great projects, but they're far removed from the finance that is around globally, but that finds it difficult to reach those projects. So that's the gap that we're talking about. Next slide. And because of this gap between projects and finance, we realize that there are skills needed to reach, to access finance. We have to develop skills, and of course that means learning from each other, for example from projects or organizations that did manage to access finance. And central in that approach to reach the finance that we normally don't find, part of that approach is business development. It doesn't mean to say that we only have to make business cases and that everything has to be commercialized, but at least it is part of the mix of finance that we can access to scale up our climate adaptation technology and projects. So in this session, we look at the business canvas model as a tool to develop business cases. And this directly links to the session that we have on Wednesday at 12 o'clock UK time, and that's the Dragon's Den. The Dragon's Den, where we hope that several of you will present your project and present how you think you can access different types of finance. I just already got in the chat one question from you here, which was asking, do we only focus on private finance? The answer is no. In many cases of community-based adaptation, we will need public finance. But the idea is that some of that public finance we can also use to leverage private finance. So it is super interesting to see how your project perhaps can find public finance and use some of that public finance to also work on attracting private finance. Next slide, please. Could I have the next slide, please? Or is the presentation stuck? Oh no, sorry. We have the video at this point. We have a little introductory video of using the business canvas. An organization's business model can be described with nine basic building blocks, your customer segments, your value proposition for each segment, the channels to reach customers, customer relationships you establish, the revenue streams you generate, the key resources and key activities you require to create value, the key partners, and the cost structure of the business model. But it's not sufficient to just enumerate the nine building blocks. What you really want to do is to map them out on a pre-structured canvas. This is what we call the business model canvas, a tool that helps you map, discuss, design, and invent new business models. Let's briefly go through the nine building blocks, starting with the customer segments. These are all the people or organizations for which you're creating value. This includes simple users and paid customers. For each segment, you have a specific value proposition. These are the bundles of products and services that create value for your customers. The channels describe through which touch points you're interacting with customers and delivering value. The customer relationships outline the type of relationship you're establishing with your customer. The new streams make clear how and through which pricing mechanisms your business model is capturing value. Then you need to describe the infrastructure to create, deliver, and capture value. The key resources show which assets are indispensable in your business model. The key activities show which things you really need to be able to perform well. The key partners show who can help you leverage your business model, since you won't own all key resources yourself, nor you perform all key activities. Then once you understand your business model's infrastructure, you'll also have an idea of its cost structure. So with the business model canvas, you can map out your entire business model in one image. This works for startup entrepreneurs just as well as for the most senior executives. Thanks Debbie for showing that the video could have the next slide now. Thanks. Probably this video might be slightly overwhelming because there's all this terminology that we as NGO practitioners are not working with in our day-to-day life. I have the same issue. I don't have a financial background and an NGO conservation background. What is a business case? A business case is basically an explanation for a certain project that you want to start. It's just a piece of text that explains your project. But it is different from a normal project that we may be used to find public donors or philanthropic money. Now this is a project that has some financial or economic benefits. So it's a different way of making a project. It could be something like ecoturism or it could be a project that produce a sustainable technology for climate-smart agriculture. But it is an activity or a project that can actually be sold. And the business case as a text, as a piece of paper, simply helps someone who might have money to make it possible. It helps that personal group of persons to make a decision whether this is investable or not. Next slide please. So every project, every business case starts with the very basic idea. You have a certain idea to help or to work with a community, work with an entrepreneur, work with a group of people on a solution. You often have a solution in mind for which you look for help and assistance and peers to make it happen. So in order to make the idea possible to grow, you need certain things. You need to work with other persons. You have to exchange ideas. You have to be able to get some space and some resources to incubate it, to allow it to grow. And then gradually as your idea gets more legs and hands, you get to the stage where you need finance to make it possible. You need a global network that can help you to make it. And gradually you are giving wings to your idea. Next slide please. And as you gradually allow your idea to grow into an actual project that can attract investors and can attract other people to work with you, it becomes very important as we saw to communicate your project and to communicate it in such a way that potential investors understand whether this is something they want to invest in. And once more, we also encourage you to apply this to your projects that perhaps first need public finance. But even with public finance, for example, climate finance funds, such as the Green Climate Fund, they very often like projects that also have a commercial component in it or that have a horizon in the future where you say like, well, once we have tested this new technology or this new information system, once we have proven that it's working, we would like to scale it up and there's a possibility to scale it up amongst the private sector, for example. So as we see, it's a communication tool. The core component of the business case campus model is what is your value proposition? How do you create value? And you create value because you have a certain product or a certain service that you deliver. Ecotourism is a product, satellite data analysis to inform farmers about weather changes and droughts and rain coming, that analysis of information and making it available for farmers, for example, that's a service. And like that, there is a multiple possibility for climate-related solutions that create value for governments, for farmers, for all kinds of persons and groups in your landscape or in the country that you operate. So in the business campus, you have these nine components that, for which you need information in order to talk to potential investors. So the next very important component, and this is something that we often forget when we have a solution. We often put a lot of energy and information in explaining what is the solution, but we often forget who exactly does this solution create benefit for? Who's our customer? Is the government our customer? Does this climate project actually benefit the government in their plans? Or is it a farmer? So the customer segment is extremely important. If you know very clearly who's the person or the group of persons that benefits from this solution, then you can also think about who might be able to pay for this solution. And then the third area of this nine piece canvas, the third is revenue streams. If you believe that you can make a business case out of your project, then it has to be very clear who is actually going to pay for it. Again, in a project that is focusing on ecotourism, it's very clear you have a tourist and that tourist in the end will pay. They will even pay before the trip starts. It's one of the easiest business cases because you get money beforehand for someone who pays for a trip that shows them nature. It becomes more complicated when you have solutions for farmers or solutions that help communities protect themselves against climate change. It already becomes much more difficult to see who pays for you. And customer relationships, the relationship with people that might be your beneficiary of your project is then the fourth very crucial part of the business canvas. Who are the people that benefit from your project and how do you communicate with them? How do you relate with them? Because only if you develop these relationships with the persons and the organizations that benefit from your solution, only if you have that rich relationship and have interaction with them, only then can you understand what they really need. And then the next step is what are actually the different activities that you have to do to make your project possible. Of course, you need a plan, you need to use certain technology, you need to refine the concept. There's all these activities. You need to travel yourself to meet your customers. You have to meet with potential investors. There's all these activities that are all on the cost side. These are all costs that you somehow have to recover eventually when you sell your products. So mapping out the different activities that you have to do in order to make your value proposition possible is very important. And of course, you or your organization or your entrepreneurship or your company, you are not able to make everything happen yourself. You need resources, for example technology that others have developed, or approaches to make your solution possible that other people have experience in and knowledge. You need that to integrate that in your project. So there's different resources, information, expertise, technology, but also, of course, finance. Finance is also a resource. So in order to be able to tell an investor that it is interesting for him or her to invest in your project, you of course have to know very clearly and also be able to quantify what you really need in order to do the activities that you have to do in order to create the product that you know certain persons or certain organizations will be able to buy. When you have all of this very clear, then you're also, you will be able to show who's your partner and the partners with whom you're going to develop and expand your business are, for example, key suppliers. If you use satellite imagery to analyze the conditions of farmers in your area and you try to analyze weather information to inform your farmers so that they can better prepare themselves for extreme weather events, then you probably need a partnership with the organizations and the companies that manage these satellite technology and that also provides the technology to translate that information into something that is useful for your farmers. So that's just one example. If you work on ecotourism, then of course there's various other operators, companies that help your customers to reach the destination, etc. So these will be key partners with whom you are linking your business case with, with whom you will always operate together to make your business proposition possible. And then finally, cost structure is of course very important and for that you need of course people with the financial background that can show you very clearly what are the costs and benefits and at what point is this a viable business case. Next slide please. We will share with you a more extensive video that again explains this business campus in more detail because we realize that this short meeting will not give you the full picture, well it gives the picture, but you know to retain the information of course it's good to repeat this looking at this approach and look how you can use it in your situation. So of course to really know whether this is a business case or whether you need some subsidy or whether you need some philanthropic money in addition to private funding, it is extremely important to understand that your return is positive. So it means that the revenue that you generate through your product, through selling your products, the revenue should be more than the costs that you make. As long as the revenue is too low to overcome all the costs then of course you don't have a return on your investment and if you attract an investment you will always need a surplus to be able to pay back the investment. So it is also very important of course to understand if there is even the potential for a business case because if there's not then of course you have to continue focusing on philanthropic finance or public finance and once more for this exercise it is also okay to show projects that will need public finance. So don't stare blind only on the private finance, it's also fine if your project wants to attract public finance. Next slide. So the last session of my presentation is to give an overview of what we're going to do in this week around these dragons then. Next slide please. On Wednesday at 12 o'clock UK time we organize a session of one half hours and in this session we hope that some of you will present a project and while presenting this project we hope that you will be able to show what kind of finance you need. Do you need a donor ground or do you need some philanthropic finance or do you think there's an opportunity to create a business case out of your solution and if you see the opportunity for a business case even if it's just in the in the future even if you you will still need a lot of time to reach there but if you have an idea of a potential business cases then present that business case in its most basic form so you don't need the whole old information about the business model etc but just the basic outline who are your customers, what is your solution, what's your team and we will get to that later. But we hope that three or four or five of you and all the participants in the CBA that some of you will take part and pitch your idea. Now the dragons then is a concept that was introduced on TV I think 20 or 25 years ago in the UK first and you have these dragons that are called dragons because they are supposed to ask you some difficult questions. Now of course in our dragons then we have very benign dragons they're very friendly and they're there to help you they are there to reach out to their own networks if if they see a good idea and introduce you to their networks but on Wednesday they will focus on the critical questions and they will decide who they think should be the winner of the competition and we will combine that with the audience that will also decide who will be the winner and then in in combination with the public the audience vote and the decision of these four experts the winner will be announced. So here you see we have Bijal Prambat who is the director of an innovative company we have Edith Kish who is director development and portfolio management of an impact investor we have David Sol who's working for a real commercial investor and last but not least we have Pam Thuan Anh from Vietnam from the organization Vietnature who has experience in pitching her idea and winning a dragon's den two years ago. She thought that her idea was way not there that it was really in the very early stage but still then because the idea that she pitched was inspiring had a very clear vision for the future she won the dragon's den and from there on she she managed to attract different types of finance and work on her idea. So these are the four dragons once more they are benign dragons that will be very friendly and ask you questions to help you. So the dragons will use these key criteria to assess whether your project is of a winning kind. So your solution should be innovative and have climate impact it should contribute to broader sustainable development or at least it should not do harm to broader sustainable development. So you don't want to pitch a climate solution that actually has negative impact on gender or that has negative impact on poor sections of people that live in the area where you want to introduce that solution that's of course no brainer but anyway so that they will look at that then of course they will look like is there the first outline of a potential business case doesn't have to be very well advanced but they will look at that of course when they assess the project and in line with the business case they look at is it scalable are there opportunities to find more resources to implement your solution at a larger scale and last but not least it's very important to show that you have a team a team that has experience in working with each other that already has worked with each other that has experience in dealing with obstacles and and issues and find solutions for those issues. It's very important that you can show your team. Next slide please. So the rest of this week today we are in this introduction session. Tomorrow we will have a session that will be interactive with you. It will help you in one-on-one discussions and in group discussions on finalizing or developing your your fledgling business idea. Tomorrow at the end of the day we have the pitch training that Jasper is is going to lead because when you present your business case of course you need a short pitch of about probably five five minutes depends a little bit how many participants we have. If there's more participants the pitches will be a little bit shorter but anyway in three or four or five slides you could be able to present your idea in its very basic components. So you will get training in that which of course is a training that will be helpful for for the rest of your career. And then Wednesday there's the moment of truth there's the dragon's den. So sorry to break in but so the moment of truth is on Thursday and the announcement of the winner is on Friday. It's already Tuesday today. Oh my goodness. Small detail. Yes you're you're very right. I was I was making this presentation yesterday and I guess I got mixed up. Yes so so tomorrow are these two trainings. Thursday is the dragon's den and then Friday's announcement. Thanks funny for so let's get this slide out of the way as soon as possible because of course in the in the program of CBA you you see the right timings and days for these for these sessions. So we hope that you have signed up for these sessions as well. If you don't manage to sign up for one or two of these sessions and you still want to develop your idea you still want to feedback don't hesitate to just write to us and we will make sure that we we can also give you advice at an other moment if you need it. Also after this week don't hesitate to contact us because this is a broader longer term opportunity that we want to to make sure that we can work on together. So so you know this is for long-term exchange and joint creation of knowledge and experience. So if you want to take part in the dragons then on Thursday then the basic questions that you should be able to answer is very clearly what exactly is the problem you try to solve. How are you going to do this and what are the the climate and broader sustainable development impacts. Why is your solution new. Why is this something that that that merits attention from investors and what exactly is the financial value that you create. For whom is this useful and who might possibly pay for it. It could be a government that wants to pay for it so it doesn't always need to be an individual customer. I see a question yes we will share this PowerPoint we will definitely do that. And then last is as I as I said before who is who is in your team. It's something investors always look at. They want to see are you alone are you working alone or do you have a team of experts and colleagues with whom you have an experience in working on this particular topic. So these are the five questions that you should be able to answer in a short presentation and the clearer and shorter the answers are the more likely you are to win. And in the end of the day it's not just about one winner because every person that has the courage to stand up in a virtual session like this and talk about their idea is a winner in itself because you have exposure and we will work hard to to introduce your solution to other people who might not be here this week in the in the room. So everyone is a winner who has this this ability and courage to stand up and share their ideas. Next slide please. So thank you very much and we now open the floor for questions. So please take the microphone and ask your questions or comments. We already have one or actually two questions in the chat. So shall I just ask post them? Yeah. Thanks. We have a question from Monisha from Nepal and she's wondering whether you're when you're developing a a solution so a product or a technology and your main customers are smallholder farmers but you're not sure you expect that your solution might be too expensive for the customers that you have in mind. How would you deal with that? And Monisha feel free to to add something if I if I if I lift something out. Yeah. Thank you Fanny. Yeah. Please go ahead. Yeah. If I may just chip in here. Thank you. Thank you so much for the presentation. I think that was really good to the point and it just brought a challenge a project that I had in mind and that is climate information services bundled with agro advisory. Right now what we have is climate information services but they're not really localized and because our farmers are so dependent on rainfed agriculture a lot of the weather patterns would affect their crops and if they are you know if they are able to find out a little ahead of time then they can they can mitigate those risks they can take precautions but having said that they mean they're so poor that they're they may not necessarily be in a position to pay for these advisory services so I mean then it completely jeopardizes the financial viability of the project if the government is not in court but what would be good is for us to be able to demonstrate that as a pilot to have somebody you know to to create a business model wherein there is somebody some other customer segment that is benefiting from it and they are chipping in and also in a way subsidizing for the farmers. Yeah yeah very very good and clear question. The first question is do do the farmers produce for themselves or do they produce partly also for the market? As of now a majority of our farmers are subsistence farmers when we're talking about smallholder farmers they are mostly subsistence and it depends on which because we have different agricultural zones it depends on which zone we are targeting because the farmers based on where they are some of them may be commercial you know they may not really commercial in that sense but they may sell surplus in the markets yeah so there may be a very small tiny commercial component to it but most likely not adequate to pay for the service. Yeah yeah so if if there's a market component then either the the buyer of the produce could see this this intervention of yours as a as a way to deal with risk to their own supply so that that could then be the the organization or the or the the person that that might be interested to invest in it because in the end in in his or her interest that their supply is secure and it generally with any solution that is for smallholders the the aggregation of of these smallholders is important so if they operate as a group as a cooperative for example then the cooperative might provide certain services for which the farmer perhaps pays a little amount but then the the dealing with these kind of negative impacts and making sure that farmers don't have these impacts this is then a way of de-risking and that could then be beneficial and it could be translated into a business case through through the cooperative and for example microfinance institutions could be interested in in in this kind of finance so so this is this is going already in in quite some detail which is great and i would i would propose to to look more specifically tomorrow in this case if you're able to join the business development session and it's very good to know this particular bit of information if you have more information you can already share with us so that tomorrow we can look a little bit further into this are there is there anyone in the room that has a similar solution that deals with subsistence farmers or farmers that maybe only market only surplus so that that's so farmers that are not fully commercial but but have a smaller link to the to the market are there other persons in the room that have similar projects because then we can also make a little group and look at this in detail no one can you hear me yeah yes yeah so yeah this is Ashish from Bangladesh okay so yeah we had also an idea actually that very close to that case that you know that in our southwest coastal belt in Bangladesh the community actually suffers a lot from salinity problem okay yeah the poor and especially the women are vulnerable because they need to travel a lot to collect the safe water okay so in that case if we come out with alternative technologies like this alienation plant actually and can make it to a social enterprise so the availability of safe water that community to be ensured and if we can run the social enterprises through the engaging the women's it will also create the job opportunities and others but the problem actually lies again in that investment because you know that the vulnerable community which a climate vulnerable living in that condition actually those who cannot afford to migrate or go outside right so that don't afford that so again it comes about the investment and you know that government also actually does not to invest that type of use technology currently yeah so how do you think supporters yeah yeah yeah I understand yeah we would have to look in detail if I it would be great if you could send some more information and then tomorrow we can we can have a session to look in your specific case okay so please do share your presentation that you can yes yeah we will share the presentation yeah thanks again so are there any any other questions are there any clarifying questions with regards to to what is the business case what is the business cannabis model there was one additional question from Monisha and that focuses more on the component of the the cost and revenue revenue overview so the question is do you already need to have a finalized budget ready for your presentation and I think that's for this week for the dragons then yeah but maybe we can even make this question a little bit bigger to to discuss which items what parts of the cost and revenue overview are most important or are the first steps that you that you work on and then yeah no very clear question and very important to address that for this week you don't need to have an actual cost structure in of course if you have it is great but it's it's completely understandable that you don't have that data at this point and for the for the pitch at the dragons then session it's it's not necessary to have all the information but uh in in answer to the second part of the question uh if if and that's why the where the business canvas comes in place if you know very clear who's your customer and that's why also your first question was quite important is the farmer the customer is the cooperative the customer or is the the the buyer of the produced the customer that actually can pay for the for the created value which often can be reduced risk to the value chain if you have that very clear then that enhances your project tremendously your proposal for the back and so so a clear indication of who benefits and it can be three groups that benefit from it that's fine but if you have that very clear in your presentation that's that's one of the key questions um and the second is uh when you talk about uh cost and return you have a potential return that that is what i just said the the customer that that could pay for your surface or your product and then the second thing is of course where are your costs so if you can again doesn't have to be in in figures but if you can identify quite clearly well you know the costs are in buying the technology using existing technology hiring uh people to do this yeah if you have a somewhat clear idea about where are going to be your main cost then that's fantastic so again it doesn't have to be a fully finalized financial plan but at least an indication of where your costs and where your benefits are and who benefits who could be customer just to answer your question yes thank you so much appreciate it thanks funny where there are more questions already in the chat yes we just received another question from um from Elisa from the Philippines and uh once again Elisa please add something if you feel that uh that you'd like to add something but her question is that uh how would you deal with uh with with a project when the effects and the the positive impacts of your project will most likely occur in in five to ten years time but um the the actual project will only be a one to two year period project how would you deal with that and to find um i i think to find investors for that that's uh again of course a very good question um uh it's it's already very good that you that you have this distinction between the benefits at the longer term and the shorter term for example in case of planting trees it is it is often difficult to find investment because the trees and the products of the trees only come in after 10 or even more years um so in in this case it depends if you if you have a very strong track records and if you already have done similar projects then an investor might be confident to to to overcome a certain gap if not then you have to uh you have to to make different phases in your project and then look for uh for different investors maybe in different projects so maybe you need public finance for the first two years and then when you demonstrate it uh how your idea can work then you can apply for an impact investor to do an extensive pilot for example but you can also mix uh income streams so for example if if you if you work on um replanting of agroforestry products for example if you if you have to plant rubber uh and the income will only be after five years then if you if you choose to do this rubber planting along with other agroforestry products and fruits and nuts that produce quicker then um then you basically help to overcome this uh this this gap because even though the the rubber will produce uh only after 10 years say um if you intermix it with other products that create income earlier then the the project as a whole uh becomes economically viable so it's so either you you adapt your solution uh and combine it with with other products or surfaces that can then make it possible to uh to make to to attract uh investment for the entire project or you uh you you you create different stages for which you need uh specific uh investors again this will be an interesting case to look into more detail in so um so I would encourage you to to send us the information and and discuss it uh tomorrow in the in the session on business case development but please Inezah tell please do respond to my answer because maybe uh you have more information or you have follow-up questions. Inezah would you like to respond? Actually I was able to to get the point and um the idea of having adopting to the solution and combine it with uh with the other product is is a good um is a good idea actually so yeah thank you. Okay great um so now we can continue to Jesse he raised his hand. Great thank you very much um I I had a comment and then I guess a question here um the first I think the comment goes to Elisa's point which I think is really interesting about the the project just running one to two years um and I feel that's something that came up a bit yesterday in the planer in the opening about how kind of funding you know for adaptation is is misplaced kind of the the typical bilateral project-based financing is just not adequate for a lot of projects so I think that's as an interesting question and and kind of concern that Elisa mentioned um and then my question actually I think goes back a bit to what um I believe it was Monisha said um because within the sector of international development international cooperation and particularly climate change adaptation a lot of the people who we are working with and who are working for don't have the funds resources to actually really help pay for services so that's kind of a missing link in terms of I guess the potentially the business model or the canvas something has to be thought about um and so my question within within that context is a bit about knowledge services because again this is an area where knowledge particularly about say climate risks and how to turn climate risks um into appropriate or effective adaptation responses is something that has huge value but it's really hard to put a monetary value especially if you're asking the most vulnerable to pay for it or people who who may be even linked so I guess my question is about that then I know earlier you mentioned um one of the tricks one of the keys is how you can then turn public finance and leverage into private finance um and I don't know if it goes somewhere down that line but I'm just curious to know yeah you know how does that work when you're not really selling too much of a service because it has to do more about knowledge um and understanding maybe capacities so how can you how can you sell that to make it a bankable investment for someone yeah that's um that that's that's that's the that's a challenge uh and it of course depends on on your uh specific uh solution or service that that you that you want to provide um something that comes to mind is um um uh as a provider of seeds for example um that means there's examples of um um of seed providers that collect information uh from from a farmer when they buy the seed and they encourage the farmer to to sign up and share their cropping details uh their geographic location um and if they do so they they might get a discount on the seed because the the provider of the seed is is uh is more confident that the product will actually uh work um or in some cases uh insurers of uh of uh producers could could be interested in in a certain solution for example weather information solution so then the farmer doesn't have to pay for that because they don't have the margin but if if an insurer could could see the benefit of that reduced risk then uh then they might be able to uh to to pay for it so it's it's very difficult to to give a general um idea but it's it's the the the idea is in in many cases that you have to um you have to see who who else apart from from a smallholder farm but who else who else would benefit from uh from the reduced risk for example through information and um and because of this when you look for smallholder finance uh the access to markets component is is very important because the farmer him or herself doesn't have the the capacity to to first of all attract finance because they're too small an entity um and and also the the the benefits of the reduced risk um is tangible for them but it can't be translated in something that they want to pay for but if farmers have access to markets and it doesn't necessarily have to be the big commercial uh agricultural companies but it can also be sustainable sourced agroforestry products etc but if there is a commercial uh entity that is interested in the in the larger amount of uh produced from a larger group of farmers then that entity is the one that can translate reduced risk into uh a financial return for for him and that can translate in uh attracting investment uh and other other possibilities are again combining different surfaces so for example i i don't remember the full details but i remember it was actually in southern africa africa it first started south africa they had this um a container that provided cooling surfaces for smallholders that helped the smallholders to uh to to to have access to market to the market and be able to sell the produce because they could store it in a in a cooling uh system in a container that provides cooling the smallholder farmers were not in a position to pay for the cooling even though they benefit to they benefited from in from it because they actually could sell their produce more easily and with less loss but still then you couldn't possibly ask the farmers to pay for the cooling so when they combined this cooling container with other surfaces for example they provided electricity to other uh entrepreneurs in in the area and they rented out machinery to to certain uh other organizations or people because they had a return on their costs through these other uh things they could then provide that cooling surface for free to the farmers it was something like that so it's it's again it's it's about who is the market partner because they might have a possibility to to to create a return or how can you combine different surfaces and then make sure that what you offer to the smallholder farmer is not something that they actually have to pay for themselves but maybe someone else in the room has uh other ideas about this just a heads up from Debbie that we only have a few minutes left and we do have a raised hand from Monisha again so please Monisha share your suggestion no i actually wanted to just clarify the the situation on the ground the challenge we have is much more bigger than we can you know conceive sitting out here because when we're talking we're talking about smallholders they as i said they don't produce for the market necessarily they only sell in the market if they have a surplus and this is the customer segment that desperately needs this adaptation technology and your your solution to i just wanted to give you a sense of reality like for example when it comes to seeds if they were producing on a commercial basis they would buy seeds from a commercial seeds company but because they're not producing for the market they are you know they are the ones who manage their seeds for the next planting season so they really don't have a um engagement with a commercial entity on that input end and then um talking about insurance they're not covered yeah you're not insured at all so there is no insurance and then talking about the market component the uh you know forward linkages so to speak um uh they may uh what Nepal is quite developed in terms of cooperatives so they would be in one way or the other connected to a cooperative but they may not be producing and selling on a regular basis to to the cooperative who aggregates and then sells to the market so that way even the cooperatives are very underdeveloped or they're not very well financed to be able to to pay for services like this so that is the the the extent of challenge that we're faced with yeah if this was a commercial line of uh you know commercial farmers uh then probably the solutions that you were offering would work but we are talking about really subsistence farmers yeah yeah no very good that you that you raised this we have a duty also make sure that the solutions work for them absolutely absolutely there's of course different different types of uh farmers in different parts of a landscape and it ranges from commercial to semi-commerce to the sort of the subsistence farms as you talk about in your case you would probably uh have to work with with public finance finding uh finance and uh larger amount of finance to to develop models or to to help set of cooperatives or to to you know whatever the need of course is always locally uh you know depending on your local situation but for for that kind of situation that you uh just now sketch uh trying to access prior climate finance such as from Green Climate Fund or GF or maybe national funds would be at the very least the first step to to develop solutions so so you're probably too far away from a commercial proposition but when access when writing proposals for public funders or international funding that is grant-based it can already be good to also think about what in the future could perhaps be uh commercial propositions but I completely agree that certain groups of farmers are are are you know are not in a position to to to be part of the kind of solutions that we just talked about but that's also why I re-emphasize that the Dragon's Den is also about uh proposals that for example show how you want to access uh grants for developing solutions yeah just very quickly I know we're finishing up I just just that last one could you reach out to me over email and I have two two organizations I think you should talk to um but let's let's not do it here but if you can reach me over email that'd be great okay yeah let's do that okay um you are asking Monisha to reach out to you right yeah yeah thank you so please do sign up for the the business case development session tomorrow and the pitch development session and do let us know if you're interested to pitch in the Dragon's Den and um if you're not part of the sessions tomorrow also do reach out to us and let us know what you're working on and then hopefully we see each other in the coming days thanks a lot for the contributions and um I wish you best in in the rest of the the week and again hope to see you tomorrow in the next sessions thank you Ian everybody behind the team thank you so much thank you