 Welcome back to the RxRM podcast, a show where we bring you actionable tips and strategies and how to better connect socially, boost your emotional intelligence, and of course, this month, negotiate and win. I'm AJ. And I'm Johnny. In last week's episode, we talked about negotiations from all walks of life, whether you're negotiating a salary or you're trying to split the household chores with your significant other. I feel like we were just getting it set up, right? This is part two. We laid all the pieces out and we'll reexamine them and bring everyone back up to speed. But today, we're going to get into all the working components and what you can do to not A, not shoot yourself with a foot, and then go in and argue from a place of strength and cooperation. That's the key is cooperation. Well, if it's not cooperation, then it's competitiveness. That's arguing from position and that's not going to get you very far. Exactly. So last week, we talked about the Harvard Negotiation Project, which is all around creating win-win scenarios for both parties. And please review last week's episode because we break down in detail those strategies that you need to do to get those wins. But in today's episode, we're going to give you a few tips and techniques to help make the most of the negotiation. And we know negotiation is stressful. We also know that some of the most important decisions in our lives involve negotiating with another party. So oftentimes, we're negotiating with someone who's much more experienced than us. You could imagine going into a car dealership and having to negotiate your new car. Well, that happens what? Once every two to five years versus the person sitting across the table from you, well, that's a seasoned car salesman. He's selling multiple cars every single day. So we're going into the negotiation with an experienced disparity. Well, I think also, if you understand all the pieces, know how they work and come in prepared, you can actually get excited about the negotiation because it's going to be a learning process and you're going to be better for having experienced that. However, if you don't understand those components and you haven't done your research, yes, it's going to be a miserable, stressful experience. And you can also get tied up and focusing on the wrong things, which I definitely want to be talking about today. Exactly. And of course, preparation is key. We're going to be delving into that. But the first thing we want to talk about is something that I think happens to all of us when we get in a stressful situation. And that's pressure. And when we feel this pressure, it actually works against us in a negotiation. Patience is actually key. The best negotiating strategies involve you being willing and able to walk away from that deal. If the other party feels that you're not going to be walking away and there's a harsh timeline on this decision, well, you've given them an advantage. And I know, Johnny, you're smiling because we have an example. So we're going to kick this episode off with an example that we had in our career at the Art of Charm. And it was with a former staff member of ours. Yeah. This is a very common scenario. And so in the prep for today, it came to mind. And I know that reliving this experience will both put us in probably a bit of emotional mood at the beginning. However, it happened long enough ago that we could laugh at it. Yeah. This was about eight years ago. Yeah. But we're also going to dive into all of the missed components there and what made this so bad and then what this person could have done to make this better. And for everyone out there who is listening in what you need to set up in order to be the best for your possible position in negotiation. So we had a situation with a former staff member. We were coming out of Thanksgiving break. It was the middle of December. And they sent me an email. Yes. And the email was something along the lines of we need to talk. Should we lay the whole thing out and then go piece by piece of why each one was wrong? Sure. We have bullet points. So first email. All right. So go ahead. So of course, this is someone that we work with closely in fact always at the office and lived at the office at the time. So an email is really one of the most impersonal ways to start a negotiation we're near hoping for a win-win scenario. So we need to talk subject line with an email that immediately starts dictating the terms of said negotiation. For me even understanding that there was something that needed to be negotiated. Yes. The email was essentially I feel that I've put in a lot of work over the last year. I feel that I've been working hard for the art of charm. And here's all these great things that I've brought to the table. And I think I deserve a raise. Yeah. Okay. Fair request. And we're not going to give you the number, but I will say that it was a large race. It was a very big financial decision at the end of the year for us to make. And we were a young company at the time. Exactly. And financially, we were struggling a little bit. So of course, this is not something that the staff member was probably aware of at the time, but the fact that this is happening over holiday break, putting us immediately in a position where we have to make a big financial commitment the following year. And the best part was ended the email with if I don't get this and it was approximately 10 days before they were leaving to go home for the holidays, I quit. Okay. Should we start with the email? That was essentially distilled down the email that we received in our inbox. And I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, didn't you want to meet that day before he had left to make sure that we all knew it? This was actually emailed to me on a Friday afternoon and I was given basically what you would call an exploding offer. So there was a harsh timeline on me having to now make a decision over a weekend. Now, and not only did this employee have plans. He was heading out of town. He had his obligations for the holidays. So did me. So did I and so did AJ. Yes. So what happens in this situation? Let's break this down one piece after the other. The first is going back to my original point, patience, right? When we go into a negotiating position where we create pressure, tension and a deadline in that negotiation, the other party immediately is going to be on their heels and immediately is going to feel threatened. So of course, starting an email with we need to talk. No one likes seeing that subject line in their inbox. No. Certainly about something that we could just talk to face to face in person. Yes. I felt that was extremely rude. It was impersonable. And as you mentioned, this was a we had a working relationship where we practically saw each other and corresponded with each other on a daily basis. So it wasn't like he was had to reach the higher ups who he hasn't seen in three weeks and I hope and he can get up with somebody. He had our number. He had us there. And clearly with the ask that was made, this is something that he had put a lot of time into. Yes. Right. So immediately it's creating an artificial timetable and a lot of tension and pressure on me to now make a decision in a short amount of time on top of the fact that it came with a threat and the threat was or I will quit. And I just want to say there is the time involved in him putting this together and then committing to sending this email and then committing to the pieces falling where they may after hitting send all the pressure, all the attention that was put on this could have been better served in other directions looking to work with us to sit down to have a discussion. But all of it was put on. I'm sending this. I have them about to hit send and whatever happens happens and I need to stay strong in the face of whatever fall out. I'm about to face now and I could to to go along with this. AJ hits me up. So we have to go meet our employee. And when we got over there, he was noticeably shaken up. Why? Because he's the one who just sent us an exploding offer. So he's red in the face. He's trembling because of all the pressure that he has created on this situation and all of it in the wrong places. Right. So not only were we feeling tension and pressure, he now created tension and pressure for himself and what should have been as we talked about last week, a win-win scenario, a win-win scenario, a win-win negotiation is one where we credit him for his hard work and give him a raise in the slight promotion. And in return, he's excited to keep working with us. What ended up happening, of course, is this exploding offer and this need to. It's almost a power play, right? And a lot of us fall into this trap when we feel like we are in a stronger position than the other party that we could potentially negotiate with. We then just ram things through. And what happens in a negotiation when one party feels the other party is already at a power disadvantage and is now trying to get one over. Well, of course, that person in a negotiation is going to take that tension and pressure and relieve it elsewhere. And a lot of times you are now creating a scenario where you might not like the outcome of that negotiation, where you may not have been prepared for the other party in our case to say, we're not comfortable with this. The timing is bad and we don't like the way it was communicated to us. It feels like a hostage situation, which you can argue that it was, right? He's trying to put us over a barrel on and try to argue and create strength on his side by using an artificial timetable that he had chosen out of the blue to try to bend us over. Now, we ended up walking away from the deal. We didn't feel comfortable with it. We didn't like the tone of the negotiation. And we felt that it really wasn't a team player that would go through that proposal. Something else I want to bring up into that as well, which is in order to put all this together and hit send, he had to value the work that he was doing to a high degree. And and I will say that he was doing great work. Had he done this professionally, there would have been some concessions that we would work on on that. And we will talk to you in the steps of how to set this up correctly. But in order for him to to put all this together, stand firm and create this place of strength through an arbitrary timeline that he put together, he had to assume his value through the roof. Now, of course, that artificial timeline you have until X day to give me a yes or no, or I'm quitting and the ask, which was completely out of the blue and was a very large promotion and raise put us in a situation where we decided to not move forward with the negotiation and cut ties. Now, when we're talking about negotiating, as we talked about last week, most of our negotiations are not going to be this bully the other person win lose scenario, whether even negotiating with a car salesman, you're going to need a new car at some point. Cars today don't last 40, 50 years. So when we create win lose scenarios, especially with people that we're going to have in our lives beyond the negotiation, we're doing ourselves a disservice. So this was lacking in preparation, not understanding the position that the other party was in lack of empathy, a total lack of empathy for the fact that, hey, it is the holidays for all of us, not just you. And this is a decision that it was a big enough number that would require all of the business partners to be on board and the financials to align, which was not something that we were ready to do over a long weekend. Now, even if his thought was, well, I'm going to throw this out, give put this arbitrary timeline on and do a sky high number in the hopes that we'll meet in the middle. Right. Here's the issue with that. For those of you who are thinking, well, I don't, you know, why don't you just meet in the middle of the guy? Because of all the how he went about doing this, it spoke a lot of his character, who he was and how he valued us as his employers and saw his position in the company. Right. If you feel that your best serve negotiation tactic is hostage taking, then it's it's not a healthy position to be in. It's not a healthy environment either. And it also sets a negative tone for everyone else on the team to be like, well, wait a second, all I have to do is send an email and threaten my boss to get a promotion and a raise. That's a bad precedent to set up. So what we're trying to say here with illustrating this and without going so heavy into the details is preparation, empathy and actually thinking through the downsides and objections are important and in any negotiation situation we're going to walk into. Preparation here is key and understanding what the other party wants to see out of that negotiation can allow us to get to the win-win. Now, of course, when we talk about research, like great, AJ, I get that. So I'm buying a car. I go Google price of new car and I go see what's for sale in my neighborhood. And now I know I've done my research. I'm good to go. Research is actually a lot more than that, whether it's searching for a job and trying to figure out how much your salary should be. We're not just relying on the first couple results to Google. Research is actually thinking about the other person's motivations and ways that they can get value out of the deal. So when we're talking about how can the art of charm get value out of a situation where a staff member wants a promotion? Johnny, how do we break this down? How would you have sent that message to get a promotion at the art of charm? Well, either a there's two things handling it before or handling it after. Now, if this was the type of thing where he did not, he wasn't going to feel good unless he had said something before he left. And I can understand that. Perhaps he wanted to give us a heads up of, hey, I'm heading out. But into the new year, when I get back, I would like to talk about my position here and my future in this company and you guys enjoy yourselves. Something to think about. And we'll let me know when you guys are all set and we'll chat when we all get back and we're ready to go. So that would have removed the deadline, the exploding offer, right? And I just want to make sure that this is pointed out. And I think it was well before. But that artificial deadline, not only put us in a position to walk away because you don't want to know negotiations in a hostage situation. However, just think about how that wound him up having done that. And then also how he has to view us moving forward to stand firmly on that deadline. He is now making us the enemy. Yeah, it became an adversarial negotiation. So the first thing is to give the other party a heads up of, hey, I'm looking to negotiate, right? This is not a sneak attack negotiation. And when we're going into any negotiation, the other party should know that they're about to negotiate, that they're about to come to the table and discuss a deal. We're not trying to surprise anyone. Yeah. The second thing is when we create such a stiff artificial deadline, naturally, the other party is going to feel taken advantage of. And as we talked about last week, that cognitive bias around loss is so great that even if we have larger gains, that loss we're going to hold on to. So the idea of I'm going to create an artificial deadline. Now, decision has to be made. And the downside of the decision is I walk away. I'm done. I quit. I'm no longer here. Well, that artificial pressure doesn't allow the other side of the negotiation table to feel good about any decision that's about to be made. Now, there's one other key to all of this in the decision of walking away and saying, you know what, we're not going to give you a raise. It's unfortunate that you feel this way. And it's unfortunate that we can't work together any longer. There was a look of shock and surprise. It certainly was because there was no thought or preparation put to the other outcome or the threat that was wrapped up in the negotiation. Yes. And that is an important part of the preparation. It's not just to think about how can I get the end result that I want. You also in your preparation have to think about what if the negotiation doesn't go the way that I want and what if I can't get the deal that I came in for. If you haven't gamed those possible outcomes out, you are ill prepared for that negotiation. And think about this. He then, you know, we left to go to our break. And of course, we were upset about the whole thing. And, you know, thought just how wrong and what he must have thought of us to put us put us in that position. But think about how his vacation went. So now he just got the know has to go on vacation, realizing that he's not coming back to a job and that he has blown any chance of repairing the relationship. So now he worked himself all up to to thinking that he was standing in a place of strength out of thin air that he created and then has to leave and go to our home for Christmas. Now for 10 days realizing, well, I kind of messed that up. And this is opportunity cost revisited. We talked about this last month when it came to decision making, that there are hidden opportunity costs that we may not be privy to and we need to think about. The example we use was looking for the perfect gym to sign up for to lose some weight. You could imagine if looking for the perfect gym takes you half a year. Well, that six months that could have been spent at the not so perfect gym would actually got you the results faster. Certainly would have. That's an example of opportunity cost. Now here's the twist. When it comes to decisions where there seems to be a perfect outcome, we massively underestimate the opportunity cost. And so we could spend two hours in traffic for the shirt we want. That's five dollars less because objectively, that's the best price in the city, but not factor in those two hours of travel times. When it comes to negotiations, that elusive perfect outcome is not decided by us alone, right? His perfect outcome was he gets promoted, gets the raise and goes to the New Year fired up fired up. And because the preparation was only around that ideal outcome, he was not prepared for an alternative outcome. He was not prepared for the downside of us not going along with that negotiation. And of course, that opportunity cost led to him losing his job. And I want to say that not only were we surprised and shocked, even though this was early in our company's history, I think it was in about the fourth year. However, it's not as if we had not discussed conflict resolution and negotiation on a weekly basis in our programs. Where we talk about this stuff? Yeah. And he was a coach in the programs. And we talk about this every week with our clients, understanding these hidden opportunity costs, understanding that negotiating solely from a power position doesn't often lead to the outcomes you're looking for. Now, now we have to think about negotiation and the fact that we are negotiating with another human being. These are not cold, hard numbers. This is not a simple calculation. Our subconscious has a need for approval. We trust the other person wants the best for us. And we're also comparing our behaviors to those around us. Now, all of these factors go into a negotiation. The way we're judged, the way the power we're negotiating with us is judging us and looking at us. And as you can see here, we were so emotionally frustrated that it was hard for us to logically agree to a promotion that he was probably do. Yeah. So when you play with people's emotions and negotiations, you have to understand that there are downsides. Now, the second point we want to talk about today is how we can protect ourselves from this faulty judgment. And this is something called the best alternative to a negotiated agreement or BATNA. Yes. And I'm excited to talk about this. So as you explain this, and then I also want to put in context for our example here how he could have showed up with his BATNA and in applicable. So that's a mouthful. So let's unpack it, right? You're going into a negotiation with something you want, right? You want to get something out of the negotiation that raise you want the flat you want to rent or maybe just negotiating with your roommate about how to keep the kitchen clean. Your BATNA is a predefined fallback plan. In case you don't get what you want in the conditions, you want them. So, yes, you could walk into a negotiation and see how it goes and decide on the spot if that's going to be a great deal for you or not. But just like with a lack of research, if you don't have alternate outcomes, you're going to be negotiating from a losing position. You have to also understand that what you're wishing for is best case scenario. That's best case scenario. So, OK, so let's back off that and then put together then what is our alternative plan and what alternatively from best case scenario we can be happy with. Well, of course, in this situation, you go into a negotiation being way too pessimistic about the alternatives you have. This is the only apartment in your city that you could want or you're never going to find as great as job as the one you had. Or if you lose your roommate and the mess he makes in the kitchen while you're not going to be able to afford rent or find another one. However, this is not a plan B, right? A plan B is understanding that oftentimes our perfect outcome is not how the negotiations are going to go. So research, understanding what you're going to the table with is helpful, but also coming with some backup plans, some alternate pathways to the win in that negotiation. And taking a step back for our example that we're using, he would have to leave with perhaps some stimulation in his financial gains at the company, but also a clear path to to achieve exactly what it is that he walked in there in the first place to get because those things were never discussed. Right. They weren't even given an opportunity to be aired or discussed. Right. It was basically a threat and a threat is not a negotiation. And it's certainly not a plan B. However, this could also go in the exact opposite direction because we never thought clearly about a fallback plan. Well, we may think that there are many that are easily available. And that's also a blind spot. Right. So either you're walking in with no fallback plan at all and hoping for best case scenario, which we know hope is not a good strategy when it comes to negotiating. No. Or you're walking in with the notion that, oh, there's so many alternatives that I'm I'm happily going to find one of those and it's going to work out for me. And if assuming all those options isn't tricky enough, there's also a cognitive bias at work here. Our mind likes to take all of those alternatives and throw them into one big pot. So it's either I'm getting a raise or I could take that other job and go back to school and travel through South America. And now that we have this pretty cool plan B, we're not thinking that the plan B is impossible, right? That plan B doesn't exist. So notice that this banter is not a safety net. It's actually something that's going to add power and clarity to your position because whatever is happening on the negotiating table, you can always cross reference it with your baton. You can always look back and go, OK, well, if this outcome doesn't happen, well, these are the other potential outcomes. Now, the example that I love for this, Amy was trying to get a car when she first moved to LA and she was asking for some help negotiating a car. And of course I went in. I was like, I'm going to research this making model. What type of car do you want? So went online, looked it up, found the accurate pricing, got an understanding of, OK, how much the car costs, how much the car loses the second it's off the lot and got a pretty good understanding of all the options and best case scenario for that said car. But I also went a step further and I was like, well, let's say that the Toyota dealership doesn't game with us, doesn't go along with this negotiation. What are the other alternatives to this car that you want from Toyota? Well, there's a Honda, there's a Hyundai, there's a BMW. So I also went in and started researching. Well, what are their offers? What are their specials? What are they doing right now? What's their depreciation? So I didn't just research the one making model that she was after. I researched all the competitors. I got badness. I understood what the going rate was for that car and comparable cars. And the second we walked into the Toyota dealership, I let them know. Hey, we're just taking some test drives. We're looking at a few different makes and models. We're curious about this and some of the offers you have currently. And the first thing he asked me is, well, who else are you looking at? So of course, we now set the table that I have my information. You have your information. That's exactly it. That the work has been done there. And there is a line in the sand and and now we're going to play a little game. And I have some plan B's. So if plan A Toyota doesn't work out, plan B, Honda, plan C, Hyundai, plan D BMW are all still on the table for me. Now, imagine how that feels in a negotiation. You now are walking in with some power. You know exactly what you want. You know all the downsides of not getting it. And you let them know exactly what you're after. Look how different that is compared to walking on the lot, knowing exactly what it is that you want and what you're willing to pay for and letting somebody comes up to you and help you with anything. Yes, actually, I want that car right there. And this is what I'm willing to pay for it. And you have to the end of the day to figure it out. I think the car salesman would have made that same laugh in my face. Right. The car salesman would have said, take a hike. Right. You're not someone who's willing to negotiate. You're not someone who's coming to the table ready to actually make a deal. Right. Right. So it was not a fake power position. It was simply putting all the information out. I've done my research. This is what I'm after. I'm here and I'm interested to make a great deal. And this is great. You're not creating strength out of thin air. You're creating strength through research, through knowledge, through other people's experiences. You're coming in well armed with the knowledge you need to have some strength. So it can be all the strength, but it's going to be some strength. You're also creating strength through empathy. Right. I know that going into that dealership with the tone that take it or leave it deal is not going to allow the salesperson to feel like they've done their job. It's not going to allow them to feel good about the negotiation. And that's a big part of what we talked about last week, this win-win scenario. If you're in a situation where the other side thinks they're losing right out of the gate, they're not going to be interested in having that negotiation. Nope. So it's not fake takeaways. It's not falsifying information. It's not posturing. It's allowing a negotiation to happen and understanding that plan B, your fallback, your batna is just as important. So, of course, now, as we started discussing the Toyota, what ended up happening? Well, of course, he realized that compared to some of these other cars, we're at a disadvantage on price. So he had to start to demonstrate value to us demonstrating value. Why you need to come up, not why he needs to come down. Exactly. So immediately he starts telling us about all the bells and whistles that the Toyota has that the Hyundai, the Honda, the BMW don't have as standard features. And then I countered, well, that's great. Those are all great features, but the Hyundai actually has a backup camera. Looks like this Toyota doesn't have a backup camera. Is there anything you could do there? And he's like, well, you know, let me talk to my manager. Now we're having a negotiation, right? Now I'm saying I'm still interested, which was a different scenario than the email we discussed to start this episode. Right. The email had no batna. There was no plan B. There was no fallback. It was just an empty threat. In football, it's a hell, Mary. Yeah. And we know as, as football fans, hail, Mary's happened once a year. And they react, right? That's why we see the same hail, Mary replays over and over and over again. Doug Flutie. It's not a winning strategy. I'm glad you went with that one. There's a few other ones that I'm a little more butthurt of that. OK, so we've done our research. We have our batna. And it's probably fair to say at this point that you go in the negotiation better prepared than most. But let's add on a few more bells and whistles here to really strengthen our frame and bulletproof your preparation. Well, you know, this is something that we had talked about in the last episode. It goes to the four components, which is separating the person from the issue. Right. You have a car. I want that car. You're a jerk because you're the person keeping me from that car. Right. We're going to separate that. He's a person. He's he's doing business and we're going to work together. What is the second piece? It's the negotiation of points of interest and not position. But the third point was expanding the criteria, making the pie bigger, showing you more of the car's worth, why you should come up in the price that you had. And then, of course, him going to talk to his manager is getting that criteria together because he now knows that. Well, if I could get a few of these things that this guy is willing to come up on the price. Yeah. You know, if I can work with the dealership to get the backup camera and the sensors, well, he's a lot closer to making this deal happen. Then him walking off the lot and going and visiting those other dealerships that he had outlined. So how do we bulletproof things? Right. The first thing we want to do is just write out all of those expected objections. Yes. Write out all of the things that that dealer can say. Write out all of the things that your flatmates going to say or that landlord or in this case that Johnny and I are going to say as your boss. What are all the objections that are going to be thrown at you around that raise? Well, we don't have the money. Well, you know, performance has been slipping. Thinking about all of these possible objectives and we want you to write them out because part of your research was to find ways to argue against what the other parties offer. But now it's also time to think about what objections they might throw your way, why they might not be comfortable with the idea. And we have to look at the negotiation through their eyes. What are they incentivized by? What are their wants and needs around this deal? And if you really tried hard, you could now start to poke holes in some of these objections, right? When you list out the objections, you have them in front of you. Now you can start to design arguments or discussions around those exact points so that you go in fully prepared to have that negotiation. One of the things that we discuss in order to gain empathy and have both parties understand that they are building empathy between the both of them as gaining agreement. And anytime that you gain agreement during negotiation or conflict, you're creating space for those two parties to work together to get to a resolution or to the negotiation end. And how do you get agreement? The easiest way to look at this is you think about a therapist. And you have the patient. He's laying on the couch and he's going to talk about his day and what's going on. And and eventually the therapist at some point is going to hear what he's saying and is going to collect his points, summarize them for them and then ask them, do I have this correct? And at that point, the patient says, either yes, you are correct. Now he knows that you understand what he's saying or he will say, no, actually it's more like this. So he's now going to clarify and then you have an opportunity to go. Yes, do I have this correct? Let me explain it back to you. Yes, that's exactly it. So let's let's think about this. This is very important. Yes. When we don't have that clear agreement of information on both sides where there's a information imbalance, it's going to be very hard for the other party to move forward in that negotiation. We cannot begin negotiations until we have agreement on both sides. So let's circle back to that first email. Yes. How could he have gained agreement with us, Johnny? What could he have said in that email or to us face to face to gain agreement from our side? Yes. From our side, he would have to explain the situation that that it's the end of the year that payroll is tight for everybody. And knowing working with us for so close, he could explain the situation that he's been that he has seen from his own eyes. And then let's let's let's think about for a second. What do we need to agree on first and foremost for us, the art of charm to feel comfortable giving someone a raise? Well, we have to first agree that the performance warrants it, that the value has been delivered. So the first step in gaining an agreement on a raise is to understand and clarify that your performance has been seen as a positive by the other side. Right. So the first agreement with us is like, you know, I've worked really hard over the last year and here are the results I've produced for the art of charm. Here's the testimonials. Here's the new initiatives that I've helped launch and guide. Here's the sales results I was responsible for. And you have to ask a clarifying question at the end of that. So for him, it'll be, do you guys agree? And we can say yes or no. And here's why. Or without that agreement, you could say, do I have that right? Do you guys agree? There's many confirming questions that you can use to gain agreement, but without that agreement, we can't actually start the negotiation. We're not in the same place. So that's why it's important, as we're saying, to gain agreement there, give everyone steady footing and then the negotiation can begin. Because everything else after that, if we're not agreeing on performance, then it's moot. There's no promotion. There's no raise to discuss. And that agreement needs to go, if this is a negotiation, needs to go both sides. Exactly. He gains one from us and then we gain one from him. And for our parts, it would be so we're leaving for the holiday. We're at the end of the year. I'm glad that you've said something. Yes, your performance warrants it. This is something that we will discuss when we get back. You should have some ideas of what you'd like to bring to the table. And as when we get back and reconvene, we'll present a few as well and we'll talk. Right. So then exactly that, the agreement that I'm ready to discuss a promotion, I'm ready to discuss a raise. Know that there's, see, there's no exploding offer. There's no deadline. That deadline item. And so in the record industry, certainly a long term, then this happened a lot in the 80s and 70s. And I'm sure throughout any sort of arts and performance contracts and recordings, there's always one guy who who's looking for that power or to gain control and his only option. Right. So like things, this happened a lot. There'd be a band and they're about to play their very first show at Madison Square Gardens. And the singer will realize that if I go all in right here, I have an opportunity to rake these guys over a call and get soul position possession of this band and name and title. So he's going to come backstage or that day and go, listen guys, if you don't sign the name of this band over to me, I'm not performing tonight. I'm out. So there are other guys, right there. This is their first time even sniffing New York City, let alone Madison Square Gardens. And they're thinking, well, if we don't give them what he wants, this show's going down. So they're young kids, but they've probably been drinking. They just want to play the show, sign whatever you want. Well, here's the thing after that, now everything is going to be held over your head. Why? Because you've given up all of your power. The when someone creates these exploding offers or these artificial deadlines, you have to understand that they're trying to create strength out of nothing. Now, there are going to be some objections that we're writing down that we we can't handle. We don't have a counterpoint for. And that is fine as well. You can simply say, I think that's fair and strengthen their reason. Yeah, because that gaining of agreement shows the other party that you're willing to work towards the win-win, right? We are not creating adversarial negotiations. That's why we're taking exploding offers out of the table, artificial deadlines out of the table. And we're not trying to get into fancy, crazy objection tie downs, twisting here. We're going to concede some points in their objections. I think that is fair. I can see that. Absolutely. You know, it's funny about this. We were using, I think we used the shark tank in the last episode about negotiation. And, you know, we're pointing out some things that are just not good for that, for negotiation. And certainly there is an exploding offer. You have to the end that is you got the next two minutes to figure out whether or not you're going to go down this road and give us, you know, 50% of your equity. And here's the funny part about shark tank. You know, back in the day, we actually interviewed a shark on the show and we asked him about those deals. And he said, well, the funny thing about those deals is they are made for TV. Most of those deals don't actually get struck because they haven't done their due diligence and because that's truly how not how negotiation works. So we have to understand that a lot of this fictionalization of creating strength positions out of nothing, exploding offers, objection tie downs, as somehow wrestling to get that agreement with the other person is going to create a dynamic for us to get the expected outcome. That's not how these negotiations shape up. As we said to start the show, there's a logical component and there's an emotional component. Something I want to preface with here and I'm serious in all my 45 years of being around and working in this industry and discussing being a high value anytime that somebody is going to put you in that position, it's not going to be the only time. So if you just think, well, I'll just get through this and sign this and we'll move on. No, they're always going to be looking to take advantage to get one over you because when people feel slighted, when people feel weak, they want to gain back their position of strength. And just because your exploding offer worked in the short term to get that promotion or that raise means they're looking for an opportunity to take that promotion or raise away or not give you anything else after that because they felt they lost. Well, even even on top of that, if you give the exploding offer and they buy into it, then your next game plan is exploding offer, exploding offer, exploding offer. Right. That's not going to work. That's not going to work. And in fact, you're going to find yourself in a position where no one wants to work with you. Now, the last part of your preparation is rehearsing because guess what? When we're actually in a negotiation with another human being and we are lacking an experience, we're lacking in actually being in that room, having that conversation. Well, a lot of our nervous energy is going to work against us, is going to hurt us in our negotiation. So having a friend sit down with you, give them the list of objections and say, Hey, I just want to run through this negotiation. It's really important with me. Well, there's a reason why lawyers get the money that they get. They're able to think about all of these things. So to get an objective eye and ear to the situation is definitely going to help. Yeah, these are big negotiations, whether it's a new car, whether it's a promotion and a raise or even negotiating an apartment. Well, if you if you're thinking if you're listening to us thinking, wow, negotiation seems like a lot of work, it is. That's there's a whole industry on this. Well, yeah, if you want to get great outcomes of in your negotiations, if you would like great outcomes from negotiating, then you have to put in the legwork and it does take a little bit of experience. You can get that experience practicing with a friend. And that's the exact reason that we video work in our boot camp. We video work practicing those moments of tension and pressure that happened in conversation so that when it actually happens in real life, you're able to deal with it. It's more manageable. Yeah, there's also a reason why professional poker players have come to us. Yeah, everyone likes to think what their poker face looks like. Everyone wants to tell you that they don't emotionally have cues that tells or give things away. But everyone who's come through the art of time has done what video work has had that picture that they had of themselves shattered. And why did we realize of the position that our employee came to us wasn't an exploding offer and he had no backup plan. And this was all just rigged hamstrung up in the way half-assed because of his demeanor and his hands shaking and his red in the face. And this is somebody we've worked with for so long. That's how much tension or pressure he put on this very instant. And he gave it all away. So to recap, we have to do our preparation. And that preparation involves not only the numbers and the details and looking at all of the alternative outcomes. It's also looking at things through the lens of empathy. What does the other person need to get out of this negotiation to feel good to actually walk away with that win? We also want to work out our BATNA, our best alternative to a negotiated agreement so that we have a clearly defined plan B that we can use as a reference point to help guide us as the negotiation and our expected outcome starts to change as the negotiation moves forward. And we really want to bulletproof our preparations, list out all the possible objections and practice with the friend. If you were going into the negotiation with with all this research and prep and with good BATNA, then you should be excited walking in there. Why? Because if the company that you're with or the other party had done their work, then you should have a it could actually be a fun experience looking for a win-win together if both of you are looking to work and together and build a relationship over the long term. So here's our challenge for you this week. Last week, we had our Get Something for Free Challenge. John and I challenge you to go into a store or restaurant and ask if you can get something for free. If you haven't done that yet, this week's challenge is actually a little lighter version of it. So no excuses. Get a friend and assign them the role of either a waiter or a shop manager and then role play your way to getting something for free from them. And if you're up for it, head out afterwards and try it out in the real world. So take that experience, the practice, the role play experience and put it to the test. When you have that level of preparation, you might find that you're getting that free coffee, that free burger, that free ice cream. Let us know, we're always excited to hear from you. Send us your thoughts by going over to theartofcharm.com slash questions or emailing us questions at The Art of Charm. You can find us on social media as well at The Art of Charm. Also, could you do us and the entire Art of Charm team a big favor? Could you go on over to iTunes and rate this podcast? It would really mean the world to us. The Art of Charm podcast is produced by Chris Holland and Michael Harold and engineered by Danny Luber and Bradley Denham at Cast Media Studios and Sunny Hollywood. Until next week, I'm Johnny and I'm AJ. Good luck in your negotiations.