 What's up, everyone? I'm Giovanni, video host at Cointelegraph. Welcome to an AMAA session with Adam Chaplin, CEO and founder at DeFi for you. DeFi for you is a blockchain project whose goal is disrupting e-commerce as we know it. Adam is here to explain to us how this platform works and to answer any question you guys have. So don't forget to write questions in the chat and I'll be asking them to Adam. So Adam, how are you doing today? Very well, thank you. I'm in Vietnam. It's a little bit cold, two o'clock in the morning. We have a winter in the north here, but generally very well. Thank you very much for asking. How are you? We are great here in Europe as usual. So let's start discussing a little bit what DeFi for you is. So apparently DeFi for you aims to build an e-commerce platform on the blockchain. Could you please describe your platform for everyone watching? How does the platform work? Right, I'll sort of go back in time a little bit if I may. About a year ago when sort of Covid sort of first hit, me and my business coach, which is Sean Mason in the UK, who's like a world-renowned business coach, we were looking to sort of find a business that would help small to medium-sized businesses through this crisis. That was the original thinking, all right, because banks are closing out a lot now on the small and medium-sized businesses. Even if they've got stock, they're closing down. So over a period of time, we came to this conclusion that basically any way we could help them out was to try and offer them some form of finance against properties or against stock that they owned. And that was the initial thought. So if you use the correct term for that, that's called porn. That's a 2,000-year-old process. And at the moment, cryptocurrency is great, but it's like one big sort of casino in many ways. People are buying it, they're selling it. People aren't actually using it a lot for purchase. And there's a lot of ground in that. So if I want to spend my cryptocurrency, I'd like to be able to spend it on a car or a house or a watch or whatever I like to spend it on. I don't want to go back to the exchange, USD, USD, back in the day. And until we make it simple for the masses, we'll never get mass adoption. At the moment, when you speak to most people, they get sort of scared off by opening a wallet. They've heard of Bitcoin or something, and they get scared off by opening a wallet. They don't really know how to use cryptocurrency. So the idea was to build a platform in one space that people could trust, and they could buy second-hand goods on itself, second-hand goods just like eBay, buy new goods, sell new goods just like eBay, or even rent them out. And then we got to the porn because until now, I want to say now until recently with smart contracts, this could not be done, right? There's no global porn sites. We realized by using the smart contract properly, it was actually perfect because you can record reputation on there. In other words, we can sell products, we can buy products on that platform. And if your reputation is good recorded on the blockchain, we will make certain loans against what you have on there. So the platform brings together everything that's outstanding with cryptocurrency, fast transfers, easy to use, onto one platform, and allows people to actually spend their money on something as well. It's quite important because when I'm buying something, I go to my wallet, I cash it out, I have a USDD, I go to a bank and they buy that off me, I put that back in my account. And I'm really stuck with the banks, right? If you think about it, to use your cryptocurrency, people cash in their wallets, and they sort of go, then they go shopping mainly. There's not a lot of places you can go to and spend your cryptocurrency. Travelers, one, wait for your holidays and your flights. But you've got all these currencies that are just a big casino trading. But ultimately, the whole purpose of this is that you have a space where you can spend it. So the platform is you can buy on it, you can sell on it, you can rent your services on it, and you can also pawn on it. Pawn will be the last stage that we build. Buying is quite important because I'm living in Vietnam, okay? I can't get an account for whatever reason. It's not quite that simple here, especially as a foreigner. I have got accounts now, but just hypothetically, I can't get an account, okay? But I can go online and sell my Rolex watch and receive cryptocurrency with that. And I'm in the system then. But what's putting a lot of people off, a lot of people, and I don't know if people in crypto sort of realize this because they're sort of stuck in their own space, is something as simple as a wallet, something as simple as going on exchange, hooking your bank account up with it. You've got to have a bank account still. So if you've got to have a bank account, you're sort of defeating the whole thing because you're coming in and out of banks. We want to get it to an ecosystem where you can go to a platform and you can use that with your cryptocurrency. And if it's having a bit of a rise on the day, yeah, you've got to have a bit of a spend, all right? And if it's fell, you hold. But at least by using crypto currencies, we've got 34 on the platform already. So everything on the finance chain, smart chain, we've got accessable through us. But the idea of cryptocurrency, or when I started cryptocurrency was, and we sort of stepped into this space of like, we're going to save the world from the banks, right? Remember that when it first started? And that was the ideology behind it. The reality is it hasn't turned into that. It's turned into a very large casino. And I get that for speculation. But when I got into blockchain quite a few years ago, and I was told by this very sort of famous Ted Lecturer, gentlemen, that how it's going to change, completely change the internet. It's more important than AI or big data. It's a sonorous subject, but like it's going to change the internet. And he said to me, until people start using it to buy and sell things, it will never be a product. It will just be speculative. So I've always remembered that. And that's how traveler was sort of born. And I'd like to be able to buy a pair of glasses or I don't know, a watch or a car and use my cryptocurrency directly, wouldn't you? Yeah, of course. That's what a lot of people would like to use cryptocurrency for. But unfortunately, mostly now, cryptocurrencies, as you said, are used as just like a trading instrument. Or for Bitcoin, apparently the narrative is switching more towards the store of value thing. But yeah, like buying stuff with cryptocurrency is probably something that would just increase their adoption. But also I'm very curious, because this is the first time I learned about the pawning. So this is the very first time, actually see a crypto project that allows you to pawn objects through cryptocurrency. So maybe we can go a little bit more in depth on that issue. But first I would like to ask you, this is a very young project, because you said that you started this six months ago, am I correct? Correct. So do you mind to tell us, like what is the roadmap and on what point of your roadmap are you at the moment to realize this project? Right, well, two days ago, we've been testing on smart contracts for six months and how to use it to indicate with the platform and the cryptocurrency. There's a lot going on there. But at the stage now, we're confident we can build the platform. But we've got beta testing on the background, but we will build it the same as travel as we go. Okay, so yesterday, we now own the biggest tech company in Vietnam, AI and big data, which we bought into yesterday. Because development costs here are good value for money, let's put it that way, compared to building in Europe where it's very expensive, you get a really good developer for a lot less. So you can afford to build the platform, which is a big undertaking. A worldwide platform is not a small thing to take on. What looks to be very simple, let's say on Amazon, there's a lot going on in the background there. So we decided, in essence, to start testing the idea six months ago, one with people, does it fly? If you could use your cryptocurrency to buy, to sell or to loan against, would that appeal to you? So we did a month with that and we had very good reactions to that. Really good reaction. They were like, people were like, yes, yes, yes, please. We'd like to be able to spend our cryptocurrency. So that's when we started thinking about the reason we went to secondhand goods, not new goods is, new goods can be quite hard. Governments may be quite upset with that, but secondhand goods and secondhand goods, tax pay has been paid anyway. So like an eBay, if you want to raise some money for cryptocurrency, you can literally go on and sell your product, receive cryptocurrency and keep it in the system. And you can buy things within the system or you can loan against in the system. So the idea is simple. What's the point of having cryptocurrency if you can't spend it? That's the idea. The execution of that, there's an awful lot going on. So the testing started six months ago, for the first month, and then we started building it. I've got various technical people globally involved with this, the best way to build it. And which sort of blockchains to use. And then we came on the Binance Smart Chain to build on because it's a lot quicker and it's a lot cheaper. And we're going to be doing a lot of transactions. So I know Ethereum said they're going to scale up and I'm sure they are. But we got caught short last time, something that we did when the blockchain didn't scale up. So we're just going to go into one that we trusted now and it's already scaled up. So then we decided on the Binance Smart Chain. We've got the BEP2 and BEP20 on there as well, part of the project. So we've done a lot of testing. A lot of market research has been the big key. And then we went into a sales phase for, if you will, angel investors. When we sold out in like about three days, we were like, okay, they like this then. And then we've gone into a sale for the Vietnamese because the Vietnamese have had a lot of, to want to have a better word, it's scam projects here. So you have to be very, very, you have to be very, very credible to actually operate here. And they wanted to see it. And when they saw we were real, the company's actually set up here. Got one in the UK. We've got credibility from before. Then the step down from angel investors are like sort of like pre-investors. They came on board. We then started building and testing the platform in more detail. Buying and selling is pretty easy. If you just buy and sell with one currency. So you come on the platform, you have a car, you want to sell it. It's not hard to build that. But when you're using all, integrating all the other cryptos involved as well, it can get quite complicated on the blockchain. But we need to use the blockchain for our product because ultimately Porn, which is where we're going with this, needs to be recorded each year. I'm going to pour something to you. You've got a good reputation. It gets recorded actually on the smart contract. So we've got there's a lot going on to get to this stage. But now we've proved it works. We've proved we want to buy into it. Now we're going to build it. And then build it in Vietnam, where it's a lot cheaper to build than anywhere else. You've got some good developers here for work, a lot less than Europe. Yeah, of course. So buying, selling, pawning with cryptocurrency, that's basically the three main tasks that the three main functions that DeFi for you is going to offer. So again, to all people watching this live stream, don't hesitate to write any questions that come up to your mind. And I will ask them to Adam. So if you're curious about the possibility to sell, to purchase, and to pawn goods on using cryptocurrency, and you are curious about how to do it or how it will be possible to do it in the future, just ask and I will ask Adam about it. So I would like to continue this AMA with the following question. So your final goal is disrupting e-commerce titans such as Amazon or eBay. So what is your plan to achieve this ambitious goal? Well, you've got to set out your stall at the beginning to actually get to the end of the race, right? And it's a marathon this one. It's not a sprint. So ultimately, at the moment, we have a monopoly, a huge monopoly Amazon has, sure. They could provide a good service, but a big monopoly. But at the moment, we want to step into a space. So although we're taking into the same space as Amazon, they're not involved with crypto at all, okay? Although we're going into the same space as eBay, again, they don't offer that crypto on their website. They don't offer any form of crypto payment. So we're not actually fighting them per se. But we're certainly there to disrupt them. And if we have a platform where it's easier to use and get money in and out of and to transfer money than it is on Amazon, then yes, you can get to a stage of disrupt. But it would be silly of me to think they were going to take them on with the same marketing strategy because they're pretty well established and they're pretty big. But with Traveller last time that's gone on to do great things now, we were looking to disrupt. But in many ways, we'll probably end up joining up forces, but we'll have a crypto side to that market. You with me? Yeah, because everyone, sorry. No, I was actually curious because on your website, you were explaining the philosophy behind your project. And among some predictions that you were throwing out, throwing around was the fact that if a platform like yours is not going to basically achieve the goals that you want to achieve, some big Titan like Amazon or eBay would actually take over crypto. And in that way, the same cycle of wealth will preserve itself. So maybe you can find a little bit better on this. In context with that then, yeah. So at the moment, the banks control the world. And big banking and big finance controls the world and they decide who gets to stay and who gets to go. If we can step into a world where loans are easier and they're built on reputation, now if you want to go and get a loan yourself now, you'll go into a bank, they'll give you a form, you'll fill it in. You may tell the truth on all of it, you may not be able to fill that form in. And then you'll be told yes or no on your credit score. But generally banks are looking for the nine to five jobs that have an income every month that's stable. So you may be a very good bet, but you may not be what the banks fall into. So we know there's a lot of entrepreneurs out there that can never get a loan, a lot. Because they have a very slip and slidey sort of income. But they're not poor, but they can't sit here. The idea of this is to take, which was Crypto's idea at the beginning, the great unbanked, if you will, and get them into a situation where they can be banked. Because if they have to open, this is where you take on the big ones, if they have to open an account first in a normal bank, what actually have you achieved? I'm just saying it. Yeah. You know, so go on. No, no, no, continue, please. So we were sort of almost kidding ourselves that we have Cryptocurrencies doing this and doing that. If Cryptocurrency can stay within its own economics, and you can loan, and you can buy, and you can sell, and you can holiday, and you can do all these things with currencies, and you don't have to go through a bank, then things change dramatically then. And obviously, banks are all powerful. It's getting harder and harder to get accounts. The rules are set in stone. So entrepreneurs, people that have a hard time, people without a bank account, there's literally billions of people that have been left out of the scenario. It doesn't mean they haven't got collateral to put up as a loan. It just means they've been left out of the scenario. And we're trying to get a system where they can come in and out without actually having to use the bank to cash in. Right? Because when you're cashing in, you're sort of defeating the purpose, right? Right. And I also see that we have questions from our audience that are coming up. So I see one which sounds particularly interesting to me. So one of our listeners asks, how is this platform going to be moderated? I guess that what he means is like, what kind of governance will your platform have? Right. Well, the moderation, this is a great thing about smart contracts. The moderation will be done to reputation that's been built up on the smart contract when they make the transition. But to get to that stage, let's say you want to make a loan from me, yeah? And you've never been on the platform before. You've never bought and sold anything. There's no reputation. You've got no stars. We can run. There are programs there that we can run on your phone that will let me know whether you're a good bet for a loan or not. They're out there now, okay? And they're not looking at you answering that question directly, which is like, you're going to give the bank the answer they want, right? That's what we do. It's things that you do. Your psychology, how you use your phone, which they base the answer on, whether you're a good bet to lend money to or not, all right? So those programs will go on to the actual platform. So if you want a loan and we've never seen you before, you've got no reputation, there's nothing recorded on the blockchain about you, then we will make an assessment using those programs. I won't say how they exactly work, but things like answering your phone, your circle of known friends. It's about 5,000 checks that are made in about eight seconds on your phone. They use them in Korea now to see if you are reputable or not. So the question is, how will that function on the platform? If somebody wants to get a loan, it will be recorded on a smart contract and you pay the loan back or the pawn back or whatever you want to do on that platform, then you have a reputation that grows. You would call it a credit score, right? Sorry, say again. You would call it a credit score. Yeah, yeah, of course. Okay, so we're going to use the word reputation, right? Because reputation is everything when you're sort of making an established business contact with someone. I'll give you an example now about Sean, who's a business coach who's in the UK sort of between sort of Chamonix in the UK. We've got at the moment a lot of businesses, small and medium-sized businesses that are waiting to get loaned and they have got great businesses. They've been dead for a year, as in their business has gone quiet for a year, but some of these companies have like five to 10,000 pounds dollars worth of stock there, yeah? So they're great for giving a loan against because we can assess what the stock's worth, what we think we'll get for it and then drop the loan from there. So that's one way of making the loan. The other one is to make the assessment of the person individually. And that might be off your reputation that you've already built up because we record it all on the blockchain when you're buying and you're selling and you're paying back. So there are many, many different ways, but there are programs already built for that that we're literally going to not so much plug into but we're going to use those programs for your reputation to make sure you're not going to run away with the monies. Now, they are not perfect. The bank gets it right about 85% of the time and these programs are about 92% accurate. So they're better than the bank. So if you're making that particular loan peer-to-peer to another person, that's what real decentralized finance should be, right? Peer-to-peer with another person setting your own rules. Because that's really decentralized finance. I see them talking about the decentralized finance, but really they're just going through a central blockchain and they're getting paid by them. We are looking at really bringing it down to a level where if you look at Airbnb with holidays, you can go go to somebody's house on holiday, right? So they don't need a hotel. They had the idea they've already got these houses. You can use these houses. Well, you don't need to go to a bank if you've already got a car or something of value. You can come to us and you can offer that. We'll do an assessment on you. You can keep that for now and make loans against that because most loans are on reputation. That will be built over time over your buying, your selling and your renting. When you've got a good reputation, then you'll be able to open up your own pawn shops. So it's real peer-to-peer lending. Pawn is 2,000 years old. 3,000 years old probably. Okay, it's been going forward as in recorded. So it's not new, but this is the first time because of smart contracts, we can step into this space. In Southeast Asia, the pawn market is estimated to be sort of $400 million. Now, it's a very, if you like, a very shady sort of market in the moment, isn't it, Pawn? People sort of view it as sort of a backstreet sort of a last-ditch, oh, I've got one gold ring left. I've gone pawn my gold ring. A lot of companies just struggle with cash flow, not with business, okay? A lot of people struggle with cash flow, not with business. So if you've got a good reputation, we can make that loan to you personally on a peer-to-peer, or you can come through all of the system. But the point being is that there are literally 50,000 different types of loans that can be made. We've used the word pawn because people can assess that. This will grow from that. People can assess what a pawn loan is, and they get that. But if we're doing business together, and I'm taking money off you, and I keep paying you back, you may offer me some other type of loan on that, and we'll make that available on the platform for you to do actual peer-to-peer loans. Actually, it's very interesting because we came across a lot of landing platforms in the crypto space, which are not based on credit scores. They are based basically just on collateral. So as long as you put enough collateral on the platform, then you can access any types of loans. But that kind of reduces the liquidity available and creating a reliable credit score system based on blockchain. I think it's one of the main goals in the industry at the moment. And that's basically, as far as I understand, what you are building. Yeah, I mean, a lot of companies or a lot of projects will launch on a blockchain. There's no real reason for them to build on that blockchain. Not really. With us, there is a reason to build on a blockchain. It needs to be fast. It needs to be well-received. It needs to be trustworthy. And hence the Binance pick on that one because it sort of ticks all the boxes. It's three to five seconds on the block. That's fast enough for us. But when you're building something like this, you can't say exactly how you're going to turn out. You can set your store like how you want to be. We know we have to buy on there, rent on there, sell on there, and do poor loans. But I would like to think into the future that we will have a massive platform there that really brings crypto alive because you can actually use your crypto. If I've got to give you $100 to get $50, I'm not sure if that's a loan or not because it's almost back to the old system. So if I've got to give you $100 to get $50, well, it sort of defeats the, in my mind, the whole thing. The one thing that's taken off a lot of people, a lot of individuals in business, a lot of companies in business is that all of a sudden their funding will be stopped for a plethora of reasons. And if we can be there to help bridge that gap, the original plan with this was to help the small and medium-sized businesses. We've monetized that plan. You with me? And having been in business a long time, you're going to have cash flow problems. Everybody has them. Doesn't mean you're not worth anything. You're going to have cash flow problems. And I'm going to hear who you are. Okay. And we'd like to be there for the small, especially for the small business, for the little guy. We'd like to be there for the people who like to spend the crypto. We'd like to be there for the people who like to rent their yacht out. We'd like to be the people that want a short-term loan. So it brings crypto into a market where we all dreamed about, right? And the banks aren't exactly accepting crypto at the moment. Some banks are, some aren't. It's hard work, right? It's hard work keeping a bank happy with sort of crypto payments. And the ones that are charging, like the charging silly commissions for doing so. So cryptocurrency, want to spend it? Fine. Would you like some? You don't know how to get into the industry? Fine. So we'd like to be the go-to platform for all the people that are stood on the edge of this crypto sort of pond now, sort of sticking their toe and going, oh, I wouldn't mind having a look at this, you know. It sort of brings in the side liners. And without them, there is no mass adoption. Yeah, of course. You know, at the moment, it's just a big tech fest, isn't it? Let's ask a question from the audience. Actually, we have a couple of questions that seem to be interesting. So one of our viewers asks, how is easy will be, sorry, not that one. So to legally operate with collateral, you need an army of attorneys. Where are you getting this army? An army of attorneys. Right. If you, I'll give you an example, right? When we've done some adverts on Facebook, right? There's a certain word you can say and you can't say and it sets people off. This is decentralized finance, right? Now, with that, there'll be countries that will accept that and there were countries that don't accept that. We're not going to fight the countries that don't accept that. They'll just won't be part of the equation. We're not going to start fighting legally, hand in fist over, I mean, our guy, Sean, is a financial sort of wizard and a lawyer. But in essence, there are countries that don't accept crypto and won't accept that platform. And we're not going to start fighting with 50 lawyers to change that. Yeah. You look at the rules of the country and see what you can and can't do and see if crypto can be used or not within that scenario. The platform will be able to use, I mean, in time, they'll be able to buy and selling cash on there as well. So as well as crypto, there'll be cash, same as all the platforms we built. But we're not going to take the 50,000, sorry, the 5,000 lawyer option. It's called decentralized finance. It's called DeFi. It's not going through the banks. There is very much the Wild West at the moment. So people are testing the water. Nobody can give you an affinity of yes on it. But it's down to the individual country and obviously working with the tech teams. They will be the countries that we appear in the most. So we're not fighting it. We're going with it. We're expecting some form of regulation. We're preparing for that. We don't know how people are going to react to it as far as governments go and monetary systems go. So the answer would be, we've been there before with other platforms. We've gone through it all. Nobody knows yet because DeFi is very young. Decentralized finance is a very, very young industry. It's very much the Wild West. I think there's been more people scammed on it than any other crypto at the moment, which is sort of worrying. But we aim to sort of clean it up. So we're taking porn out of the shadowy sort of, it's in this sort of shadows now, sort of bring it into the light. But we're not going to start taking on governments and their monetary funds. No, that's not something we're going to do at all. Okay. So for those who just joined the live stream, this is DeFi for you, a company which offers buying, purchasing, and pawning on the blockchain. And it's a platform that will be based on verifiable reputation system. So if any of you have questions regarding the functioning of this platform and how you'll be able to purchase, to sell objects, goods, and to pawn goods on the blockchain, just don't hesitate to ask in the chat. And I will also ask our guests to answer the question. So I have another question here from our audience that asks, I think that there are some misunderstanding regarding the real meaning of DeFi because one of our guests is asking, DeFi is supposed to be decentralized finance, but it sounds like a centralized website which accepts crypto. So maybe you can clarify why you define yourself as a decentralized finance. Right. Well, finance at the moment is run by the big corporations, the banks, and the Merkels, and all these are massive institutions. Okay. So if you want to get a loan at the moment, you go to a centralized bank. Back. All right. We're not centralized as far as we're not under any financial banner, so to speak, and then we offer finances. So we're not doing what the banks do. We have a platform. We have to have a go-to platform so people can do this. Because if you actually have commerce, you must have a commerce platform. So if you went to the purest form, but we're not decentralized, but we're away from the central system of finance so we can make, at the moment we're using the word porn, there'll be other loans that people want to make. But if all you can do is borrow $50 against your $100 with the crypto, we don't think that's any form of finance at all, to be honest. Because first you've got to prove you don't need the loan to get the loan, right? It's a bit of a strange scenario really. So we are centralized. The platform is centralized. It has to be centralized. Okay. To build this purely decentralized, well, people will now to use it and there would be no commerce on it and without commerce there would be no platform. So the platform is centralized, but the finance rules aren't. Yeah, that's pretty clear to me. So I wanted to ask you, the goods that will be available on your platform that people will be selling and purchasing, I saw that you have some focus on luxury goods, but are those goods somehow at the focus of your platform or it's about luxury goods? Yeah, there's a few years ago, I watched a documentary on a young guy in Spain and he'd opened this pawn shop in Porta Benus, Marbella, where all these very rich people were and they needed to pawn their goods. So the idea was initially that we're going to deal with just top-end goods because there's a lot of money to be made on it. Just because these people look like they're rich doesn't mean they don't need a loan sometimes. They have the collateral as far as their goods go, so we know those sort of loans are great for us, they're great for the client and they make profit on the platform. So that was the idea of it, they came from there from luxury goods, but the bottom line is it can go right down to mini loans, posh pawn, this was called, and I got the idea from sort of thinking, okay, well, that makes sense. I get that. These sort of rich people were very open and admitted that they have cash flow problems. I don't know if you remember a guy called Robert Maxwell, that was a long time ago, but he died and he was just short of like, he was a billionaire, but he had a bad run and he was short of a $100,000 loan and they basically collapsed his empire and he jumped off his boat, but that was the story anyway. But the bottom line is no matter how rich people are, they're the ones who usually have the worst cash flow problems because they have companies to run and they have people to pay and they have deadlines to meet. So we know that they're the low-hanging fruit, if you will. The other people that want to sort of loan cars or watches or the high end points, that's easy, but if you've just got a telephone and it's a second-hand, I don't know, Xeon phone, well, there's going to be no value enough for taking that and selling it, is it? So I'm going to aim at the higher market because there is a massive market from handbags to watches, granted, but to Sunsiki yachts, there's all sorts out there that people can use and get a loan for. And if they've got a good reputation recorded on the blockchain, then it's fine. We can do that and that's recorded and they can use that to go and get other types of finance as well. So we're not looking to hold them in as a customer, we're looking to free them as a customer. A lot of people over the last year, I mean, I've had companies for 25 years, so I know a lot of people companies, right? A lot of people over the last sort of year or so in travel have had a pretty horrendous time, right? But they own a boat. They'll own a boat here with $5 million, but it's just sat in how long bay at the moment. There's nothing they can do with it to let it open up again. The boat's worth $5 million. Now, if the bank's closed, they're going to get nothing for that. We can offer them a loan there. We know it's going to be opened up again at some point in the future, we think it is anyway. So all these assessments can be made and really we're helping the Yon bank. We're helping the high end of the market because that's easier for us. There's more profit in that, if you will. Each contract is more profit. But it also can open up to literally millions of people going right down to what they call sort of micro loans. They've been the most successful loan repairs out of all the people on the net. All the people have given these little micro loans, like $200, and they go off in there in Africa and they start recycling some carboard and off they go. So there's micro loans, that's big, but also the big what they call posh porn. There's a lot of profit to be had in it. If you've got your own porn shop and you're doing posh porn, you're making about 300% plus a year. And if they default, you're making about 600% plus a year. So you're going to aim for the low hanging fruit first, but also you want to make it for the full market as well. And sorry, maybe I missed that part, but I wanted to clarify, when do you think your platform will be operative in terms of allowing people to actually access those services like pawning, selling? Yeah, I've given myself an easy deadline to make sure that we hit it. We would be disappointed if the beta wasn't often fully running in two months, but I've given myself three months on that to do that so they can buy and they can sell. And certainly within the four to five month period, it's all on your white paper, I've given myself a nice time period so the teams are complete. So buying and selling beta within two, three months, the full functional porn section will be probably about six months away, but they must first go on the platform buy and sell stuff and trade and be seen to have some form of reputation before anybody can be throwing money at them, right? Because with the port, with the DeFi loan at the moment, you give me $100 and I give you 50 back. I just don't see how that works in my mind. I just think what sort of finance is that? It just doesn't equate for me. And one of the big problems we had with the banks was, especially in, I mean, you don't know Vietnam, Vietnam is a wonderful country. Love it. There's lots of great things about it. But like most of Asia, if you go for a loan with the bank, you must first prove you don't need it. So literally you've got to go in the bank and prove to the bank you don't need this loan and then you can get one. Well, it sort of defeats the purpose of credit, right? And porn being the oldest type of credit that most people understand, it's easy to assess how that works. And with it being a physical object, people can then actually come into crypto without having to do anything other than sell their particular object online. That's appealing. It's appealing for a lot of people we've spoken to. They're like, okay, I'd sell something I didn't want to sell just so I could have some crypto because I know that we're in a space where everybody understands the tech of it, but most people don't. And crypto has to address this because it scares people because it's not a simple process as just like buying crypto and selling it. Some of the exchanges I go on, I'm like, God, how do they work? I mean, we've all gone through it, right? Yeah. So I just want to make it so all the people that stood on the side now going, I'd like to get involved, but I just don't know how to do it. We can get them in gently. They can have their crypto and then we can bring them along later on. Honestly, they might become porn superstars, I don't know, but we can bring them along later. So this is for the people, obviously, that already in it that would like to buy and sell their sunglasses or whatever. But it's also for the people standing on the sideline because I think there are so many people, especially at the moment with this bull run that's been going on, that are going, well, just what do I do? How do I do it? And they think they have to be some sort of technical wizard to use cryptocurrency. Well, that's sort of how it's been sold to a lot of people. And we'd like to address that side of the market and get them in. It might not be the coolest thing to say, but I think that'll make a huge difference if we can do that in lots of different ways. Because if I have to hear this one statement again, I'm sure you've heard it right. And people say, Adam, you're into crypto, you did crypto. I've read about that Bitcoin, but it all seems a bit complicated for me. So you're not coding Bitcoin. You're not building Bitcoin. You can just go on and buy it. How do you do that? Well, you go to your bank, you can't even see, you join an exchange, and then you open a wallet. People are like, oh, hold on a second. You know, it sort of confuses them. So if they can just buy and sell initially and get some crypto, we bring them on, renting their stuff into porn. It just opens up a great big market, I feel, that stood on the sidelines of this football match. It wants to play, but just doesn't want to, just doesn't know how to sort of say, excuse me, and somebody please actually show me how it works. So a lot of our instruction on early days will be for people that don't know how it works. Just something as simple as opening a wallet, something as simple as going to an exchange, as we view it, isn't that simple for a lot of people. So we want to capture the, I wish I was involved in crypto market as well. And that's big at the moment. That's huge, really big. Okay, now I would like to focus a little bit on the actual token that your platform is working on, because you have your own native token, right? Which is called DFY, right? DFY, yes, correct. Yeah, so can you explain exactly what is the function of that token on your platform? Well, it's a smart contract. And in that smart contract will be built in whatever that transaction between the buyer and the seller is, or the lender and the borrower is. So it's there to record that if you'd be on the blockchain, which gives them the reputation. So it's not used as a mean of exchange on your platform? No, it will be used as a mean of exchange as well, but it records it on that particular, that transaction is put onto a blockchain and recorded to give you reputation. A lot of cryptos used just on platforms, just for the buyer and the seller. It doesn't actually, it's not involved with the platform. This is built into the platform to record the reputation of the potential client. And that's cannot be undervalued, because a lot of people have, let's say, I'm not gonna say blown it with the banks, but they don't fit into the bank's criteria of the nine to five and the steady income and all the things that a bank wants. We can start recording how these people do, build up their reputation, it's irrefutable, it's on a blockchain. That is valuable information that they can use to actually sort of liquidate some of their assets or to get loans or to borrow against themselves. So let's not underestimate how powerful that contract is. And it seems very simple, and it is very simple, as all good things should be simple, but it's recorded, irrefutable on a blockchain. There are different, we have different levels that we use, but without bringing everyone to death, if you record your reputation on a blockchain by using cryptocurrency, you can then lend, borrow, or buy and sell with it. And that on our token will deal with all those things without going into too much detail on the tech side. Yeah, actually we have a question from our audience regarding the token. One of our viewers asked, how, like, what percentage of the tokens do you own? Do I personally own? I guess, yeah, I guess they want to know, you know, usually when a company issues their own token, there are a percentage of the tokens that are made available for the public and like some other tokens that are kept by the developers and the owners of the company. We all heard about the ICO boom and how this kind of stuff works, but maybe there is something different going on for your... No, no, that's a fair question. One of the biggest problems is trust, okay? And if I'm looking at a team from the outside, I look at the team and I assess the team who's on that team, how trustworthy are they? But the breakdown is actually on the white paper, but I'll give it to you in sort of a nice easy sort of... We're selling 350 million tokens. We've already sold 180 million before the sale, okay? We're selling totally 350 million, so we've got the difference between 350 and 180 left. We've actually got back for R&D, 350 million. That's not for us, that's for R&D. These are long... This is a marathon, this is a process. There's marketing budgets, there's clearance budgets, there's all sorts going on there. So 350 million tokens are actually held for R&D, okay? Not to be sold by us to make a profit R&D. Another 200 million are locked in for five years into the contract for five years. So people say, look at what we're doing. They can see that we're doing this in such a way that, A, to fund the project with the first 350 million, because without money, nothing happens. B, what we're going to do with the rest of the tokens and C, how we've locked them in for a long time. I think it's a really fair question, because there's been a few people recently on DeFi products that have just disappeared. You've got to remember that I founded or co-founded Traveller, and we sat there on a few million when we did our ICO, but we did what we said. We built the platform. We stayed the game. We stayed in it. And throughout it all, it's remained... It's been tough for the guys that travel with COVID, but nobody ran away with the money. The problem that people are thinking now is there's all this hype behind the DeFi. They buy this token, and then I'm in the Seychelles, sending videos to my Russian friends. We've done this before. The company's registered in the UK. That's why you've got a platform. You've got to trust. The company's registered in Vietnam under my name, which is hard to do as a foreign national. I'm granted I'm married to Vietnamese. So if they look at the white paper, you can see how we set the actual smart contracts up, so you can see we're not looking to run it. Yes, I have a few million tokens for sure, but if I was to sell all my tokens, I would kill the project. So I've been around this a long time. At some stage, I would like to think we can make a profit out of it, but we're really looking to do the perfect scenarios that we monetize that platform, and we don't need such our tokens. We monetize the actual platform. Things have to make a profit. They have to. And the ideology that we all had when we first got into crypto 10 years ago was that we were going to take on the world. It was this new currency. People were calling us crazy because they just thought we were crazy and we probably sounded crazy. But the ideology was we're going to take on the big boys. That was the thinking. Exactly. We haven't. Have we? To remind our audience, DeFi for you is a blockchain project that is aiming to disrupt e-commerce, as we know it, taking on the big titans of e-commerce like Amazon and eBay. So guys, if you have any question regarding like how these guys are going to take down the big titans of e-commerce, please write them in the chat and I will ask Adam about it. I actually have a question because you said that your company is registered in the UK, right? Mm-hmm, correct. But you are based in Vietnam. So we have a question from our audience. They ask, why did you pick Vietnam as the headquarter of your operations? Good question. Thank you for that. The same reason that Honda, Toyota, Lexus, BMW coming here now, Yamaha, Samsung, because when you've got a cheap labor force that is highly trained, you've got a massive advantage when you're building something. So when I came to actually, I've been in Vietnam now nine years now, I came here to start a web development company to actually sell websites to people in the UK. So build them here cheaply, sell them in the UK, that was the original thinking. That's why I came to Vietnam. Obviously it's grown and grew out of that, but if you're going to have a production of the size we've got, and it's a lot of people working on the platform, if we were to do it in, let's say the UK, build it in the UK, our production costs will just be through the roof. We're already on millions with what we're doing with this, but in the UK, it'd probably be 150 million to build the platform. Here, we could probably build this platform for around about $50 million, the whole thing. So it's achievable in Vietnam, it's not achievable in a lot of other places in the world. And I now have, I work with a lot of technicians here, the top guys here, the top CTO in Vietnam that works for the government. So we have a good reputation here, and there's a lot of young tech here. Now, it can be harder to retrain somebody than to train somebody. That makes sense. To retrain, you've got an older developer 35 years old setting their way, they know what they're doing, and they do, but they're not malleable to the project. In Vietnam, they're very malleable, they're very keen. I'll come on at two o'clock in the morning sometimes, the tech team, because I've woken up and I'm like, oh my God, what about that? And I'll hit the chat, and somebody will answer me at two o'clock in the morning. They finish work at six o'clock in the evening, right? Or I'll wake up at four o'clock in the morning, and I'll, shit, I forgot about that. That's why Vietnam, the service level is off the charts. If I did that something in Europe, they would chastise me at the very best, and then at some point, we probably wouldn't be friends. So the team are very close, they work really well, and they're not going to use the word cheap, but they're great value for money. That's why Vietnam. Okay. Cool. So I think this is a good time to wrap the discussion up. So if you, Adam, want to add anything else that our audience should know about DeFi for you, it's the time to tell. I've got nothing outstanding to say other than, if crypto's really going to do what we promised, the time for this platform's now. I understand people's reservations on the word DeFi, it's sort of a good thing to use and a bad thing to use, but we are fully set up, we fully, we fully, well, we know we'll finish execution, how big we'll be, and that comes down to how good a job I do, really. But we think the market space is so huge, it's $400 billion in Southeast Asia. We're capped to 1% of that market, we're doing okay, right? So we're not, we're not, we're not, with Traveller, when I had the idea for Traveller, you know, you had booking.com, you've got a goad, these are massive companies, and we're like a little, little sort of tiny sort of idea at the back going, well, let's sort of get into travel, and that's what they've done with that, and the guys, Joanna and Steve, has been amazing, right? And the journey's changed, but with this one, our, we're very clear, we can do with this platform, what we all talked about 10 years ago, when we were idealists, getting into crypto, we can do that. So we can get other people involved, that aren't involved in crypto, we can make loans, or borrow, or lend against, to people that are credit worthy, but they can't get from the bank, therefore, we're gonna, we can, we can get a lot of people involved here that need help with finances. And the third one, and for me, the biggest one is, there are people out there, that if they can go on the platform and sell their one, their watch, their car, whatever, and get crypto, they're in the market, we've just pulled them in the market. And there are literally, remember we used to talk about the unbanked, there are literally billions of people out there. So we've got high hopes for this, how well it does, comes down to my business savvy and the team, we've got a great team, it's not new for us. And the more support we get from the crypto world, the better we'll do, and that's with everything. But we know we must build this platform monetized, I'm sorry to say that, but we have to do that. So hence me speaking to you. Awesome. So thanks a lot, Adam. I wish you good luck with your project. And I also want to thank our audience for watching, that this was a very cool discussion. I'm Giovanni, video host at Cointelegraph. We had Adam Chaplin, CEO and founder at DeFi for you. See you next time, guys. See you next time. Thank you very much. Thanks for listening, guys.