 Hello everyone and welcome back to for the minions episode number 20 This is the show where we talk about some of the spiritual successors to Paragon this week We have our news and updates as always and we have the poll results then we got tech time with Ruba and after that we're going to have a discussion about the different maps we've Now seen all four maps really and we're just going to contrast and compare the maps and then we got you know Our community suggestions and our community builder and we'll move one from there I am your host the one and only man Joining me as always is the lovely Mandy Mal. How you doing Mandy? I'm doing so good. Thank you so much and our special little friend that's joining us today. Mr. Kweli Mike How are you sir? I'm doing well. How are you? Thank you guys for having me. No worries Absolutely, thanks for being with us. So why don't you tell us a little bit a little bit about who you are and You how you got started with Paragon favorite player all that all that good juicy stuff Gotcha. Well, I mean first things first. I guess I'll address, you know, my favorite player I'm sorry to everybody. I am that Wukong player that like to split push a lot I actually I kept getting beat by Wukong's that just split push So I thought might as well go ahead and start playing him and beat people that way instead But I got started in Paragon Like New Year's of 2017 going on 2018 I finally got a ps4 and my brother hooked me up with that sweet Paragon download So that's how I got into it and then I just got really taken off from v42 and now I'm here Yeah, it's okay if you like Wukong man, it's okay. I don't think less of you as a player I think less of you as a person So it's an ethical dilemma, you know, I mean everybody's getting beat in the mid lane And I'm just off pushing left or right That's awesome By the way quality Mike, I didn't know if I wanted to bring him on here because his eyes are prettier than mine. I don't care for that Especially if he does that Dude do that again Mike. Oh You just hear the pain he's dropping you just hear Let's move on to the I'll go ahead go ahead Mike I saw that cause I was gonna say I got him from my mama. Oh Let's move on to the news and updates for Made above and core but they got the they wanted us to let you know that they have their Newsletter available for sign up. So if you want to sign up for the newsletter head over to made above com That's their website and I'm sure you can stay Excuse me. I'm sure you could stay up to date there on the with the newsletter and We don't know when the alpha is gonna release now since it's been postponed So get on that newsletter. So you can be the first to know when it happens. So, um, I Also wanted to mention that they actually listen to us They actually listen to the old for the minions crew about the the alpha key giveaway. My complaint was that they The way they were doing it kind of excluded people that had work or sleep schedules that precluded them from participating in these very short key giveaway So they started to do a couple of 24-hour Duration key giveaway. So I was really happy to see that a lot of the European guys or the the Middle Eastern guys or You know, we got you got people playing from Japan and everything not all those can get on it The during the prime time for streamers that try and get a key So good on made above for recognizing that and Providing a solution to that problem Quality Mike you did a video recently about key giveaways And stuff did you did you want to talk about that? I mean my big thing about and actually when you commented on the video that I had made and brought up the point about Streamers and how they do it and they may be excluding some people that like you said have time constraints because they're either in a different area or You know work or whatever it may be. I thought that was an awesome point but my biggest thing was just like subscribing or seemingly like paying for access when like When it was initially the way I reacted to it was like everybody has a Equal and fair chance to get in and they still do I mean I know predecessor and core has always said like, you know, it's all equal chance to get in but It just it looked it when streamers started to do like subscribing for a better chance to get in or and that being said It is their right to do, you know, whatever they want to do predecessor endorsed it as far as like You know, it's their right to do whatever they want to do with the same not above but I just I didn't like it Just from like, you know, I don't necessarily Watch a lot of streamers and then when I do get into those key giveaways and then I start watching and then it's like Oh, if you subscribe though, you get a five times or ten times better chance Like I don't really care for it and you know, it kind of turns me off But I mean, you know to each their own do your thing. I don't know if I had a key Maybe I would do the same thing, you know, you never know so But that was my thoughts on it really I I think you're right And I think we as a creative community need to step up and recognize that These games are for the fans of Paragon We're fans of Paragon and there are many fans of Paragon out there that don't create content But they're still equally even more so fans of the game. So the one stuff like that I think is a little I don't I don't care for it myself But the game's being made for the fans not so that content creators can kick off their twitch and their youtube channels A lot of them are going to do that and it's a great opportunity if you want to if you want to do that But uh, you know, be careful with your ethics and your morals when you go about doing things like that Is what I would say So, uh Moving on we pulled a couple questions from the frequently asked questions I usually go to opalus the the vp for made above for the updates, but he was a little busy this week I'm not going to get into his personal life, but it was some some very happy things came came for for opalus this week so Shout out to opalus As far as the questions go when can we expect the next round of heroes to come out? And their answer was all of the original heroes of the 38 will be released starting with the first 15 Then each set of heroes will be released after they have been tested and balanced Through quality control and customer experience departments Respectively so, uh, what do you guys think about that statement? I think that last part is very important the after they have been tested and balanced Yeah, it looks like they're trying to avoid the hashtag every three weeks, which is a Very good thing. I think from to to all of our perspectives and they did say There that it's sets of heroes. So I don't know if it's going to be one hero two hero three heroes I don't know what constitutes a set of heroes, but um, it'd be cool to see Well, I think it's cool Yeah, I think it's cool too because like, you know, when when ever whenever a hero would get released into the game It was like You would get so many draft boards because people would all want to lock into that hero so fast Or you know, whoever got first pick would get them and then if you didn't get it You were like salty as heck and then wanted to get out You know to get a better chance But I think that'll be cool a couple heroes maybe two three at a time If they're tested properly and if they're you know balanced and they're not too game breaking Then we're gonna get some games. Not so many draft boards. Yeah, no more draft boards. What a good point I'm glad we brought you on quality, Mike Man, happy quality quality points from quality On brand on brand Hey, quality you can trust, baby I love it So, uh, will there be any kind of deck building system with the new item system There will be a builder for the item system. We don't really still don't really know what the item system is going to be Um, I don't think it's going to be what they announced in the proof of concept But it should be pretty much a standard mobile item system and you will be able to pre build those items You're I think, um, they're very big on having access to all the items So, you know, you can still go off the beaten path if you want to and build whatever you want during a game However, you can have certain item sets preset for a hero Go into the game and then use that item set Which is something that a lot of people are looking for and a lot of and uh Something I think a MOBA needs. So, um, yeah, I think that's pretty cool. What do you guys think? Well, I was just thinking like so I brought up smite to you earlier. We were talking man goose and um One of the things like I know we talked a little bit about item trees But the what I kind of want to get into a little bit specifically with it was like I know what you can do in smite a little bit. I'm not like super 100 sure about this But like I think you can go in and you can like set up what you want in that game Like as far as starter items and then like mid game as far as like your core items And then and then well core items would be after the game But um, and then if you need to do specific things if you're needed more defense Need more offense, whatever it may be But like you can pre-select those and then like I don't know if it purchase it for you But like just for quicker like once you return to base Then you can get out really quick like if you have the currency to purchase certain items and then like As soon as you get back to base it buys those for you. You're good to go You just piece out You don't have to go through and select it and scroll it or whatever you have to do for pc I haven't played paragon on pc yet. So I don't know exactly how that works But like as far as ps4 building it was a little bit slow just because like you have to click over every single time So I think it'd be cool if you could get like a pre-set thing or just automatically purchase it for you You're good to go and then you just kick out. Wait. Wait. Are you telling me that you played paragon on ps4? That I did I took a lot of pride. I took a lot of pride in being a ps4 player I didn't think anybody played paragon on ps4. That's amazing I can tell you the graphics were pretty cool. Um, obviously not as good as pc, but I mean They were still pretty 70% of the player base, man So just into the player paragon's player base were ps4 and that's why everybody is hyped for any of these games to come to the to console Yeah, thank you. Well, I remember uh talk Well, I wasn't talking to him specifically but like I was in an involved stream involved What team did he play for in esports? I don't quite remember But uh, I remember he was saying like when he started he was on ps4 And he was like took a lot of pride in playing esports like in the competitive scene And like beating everybody on pc and I was like, I'm gonna be the next involved. Yo, I mean, I wasn't but You know, that's what my thought process but you gotta have goals right goals So, uh, let's move on to ometta studio's mani. What do we got from ometta this week? Well, they have been some busy little bees over there So they've been hard at work making sure that the relaunch is going to be as successful as possible So they've been implementing the gameplay ability system or gas, um, which we're going to learn more about during tech time. I believe So that'll kind of help put this more into perspective to their their announcement So what they've been doing is um, they've been using that gameplay ability system and that has eliminated input lag So there, uh, there will be zero input lag when they relaunch And then they've basically been rebuilding hero kits to With the new combat systems. So, um, also while they've been rebuilding the kits, they've kind of addressed some of the issues that the initial alpha launch brought to light and that was things like color like color coding basically Different abilities. So depending on which team you're on your ability would obviously or should obviously be Um, a different color whether it's blue or orange that you can kind of tell like they use the example of sevrag His uh, what was it subjugate? I believe So it'll be a different color. I think I want to say I could be wrong. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think muriel's um Bubble was also It was the same color and you can see where that you know, you know kind of leads to tesla dome as well Oh, okay. All right. So yeah, so now that's gonna make um team fights a little bit more Easy to navigate with the uh with the color changing there. So what do you guys? I'm hoping they get their alpha back up and running soon because I had So much fun getting back in and playing some of my some of my favorites. Um Um gadget being the one that I kind of gravitated towards for predecessor and uh, yeah, I was just an absolute blast I'm glad to hear those guys are still plugging away Getting these things hashed out and get that input lag the heck out of there because that was probably the biggest Um issue that that I had with the game I know the biggest the biggest issue people had that were viewing my stream was the footsteps But the footsteps weren't nearly as bad as the input lag and uh, the footsteps can be adjusted later So I'm really happy to see that coming out. Uh, what do you what do you got mike? Well, I was just thinking like um as far as I made a video that was like about the alpha and I was thinking You know, I'm not even that upset that I didn't get in it because I remember watching I think nebore and he had said yeah I think there's a one and a half second delay between mouse click and ability Or mouse click and basic attack So like thinking that this game is that like a play like a super playable state and then getting in I think people are actually a little bit lucky that they didn't necessarily all get into play this game because they were probably Gonna get pretty pissed and then you know destroy the paragon subreddit or you know made a studios reddit about it So I wasn't too upset the other thing as I was thinking like I mean how pissed off would you be if you were in a tricky situation? And then you run into a gadget, you know tesla dome thinking that you're safe Yeah, then you just get absolutely obliterated. That was another problem They had the ability damage on gadget was insane Yeah, it was really insane on gadget um, yeah, I just Happen to see those guys getting back in there I don't know if you saw like the little clip I had of uh sock app And I trying to chase one murdoch down with had like just a tiny bit of health Both of us firing away him one murdoch and And uh me on gadget couldn't hit him for anything Yeah, I remember I was watching stark too. I know I said I don't watch twitch streamers. I swear to god I click on him for a second and then I get off of it for the most part but I was watching stark um play and he had like a murdoch that was way overextended and was like in a just a mosh pit of minions like enemy minions and Murdoch or he's just like dancing around stark and stark just could not hit this guy to save his life and everybody's like You're you're a potato in the chat and I was like Something's going on here guys Yeah, if somebody if like stark is not hitting Basic attacks with murdoch then there's a problem. Yeah exactly Uh, moving on to ethereal. We didn't have a whole lot for ethereal. Um, I'm hearing some rumblings from them though I think soon. I think soon we'll get some big news from those guys But uh, they are already introducing skin concepts that are pretty damn cool. They uh I announced one publicly on their discord, which is for nicolai had kind of a steampunk nicolai with a guitar and then the um The jester nicolai with kind of a loot. Um, I like those in discord. Did you guys take a look at those? I did. Yes. Nicolai is freaking adorable. Isn't he though? I don't love him. I can't wait to play him Yeah, he's gonna be a fan favorite for sure Especially with that. I really like the loot skin And then uh, they also released some skins uh for malaya One of them was one that I was really hoping for which is like the traditional chinese gown which is kind of keep high. I think Something like that. I looked it up, but uh Yeah Really cool. And she also kind of has a uh steampunk Skin as well. So it seems like uh, maybe maybe there'll be steampunk skins for all the heroes eventually Maybe I don't know but uh, I think it's cool that they're already, you know, Leaning on their concept artists to uh to put some skins together because that's definitely going to be one of the One of the monetary things that drives the the game every game needs to make money And if you're going to make money it should be all stuff that's cosmetic like skins I think you guys, uh, what do you guys think of the malaya skins? I really surprisingly liked the cyberpunk or steampunk or whatever it was. I really liked that one That's usually not my jam, but I was like dang. She looks good. Oh, yeah cyberpunk. That's what it is. My bad. Yeah Well, I think she's definitely gonna have some bootylicious skins. That is for sure I think her her main skin seems to maybe cover it up a little bit, but it's gonna be fun playing her from from the back Yeah, oh, yeah So Is she gonna be are we calling it now? Is she the decker of or would would she be the decker or the aurora? Oh, I think uh with that uh with that empress Malaya she's going to be the decker with an aurora outfit She's going to have that decker with that decker booty with a decker booty. Hey, she's the she's the best of both worlds She's got it and she's gonna oh, yeah The phoenix rising they didn't have anything they did send me a gift in response to me asking for uh For updates which shows that they still got a sense of humor over there And they're still plugging away on the game and hopefully we'll see some more stuff from those guys soon but uh That's going to be it for the news and updates. Okay everybody It's time to get into the poll results the poll results this week Of course, just like last week are included in all of the above category. So let's take a look um Last week, uh, we had 1.2 k votes core had 74 of those votes predecessor had seven ethereal had nine phoenix rising Had two and the all of the above category had eight This week we had 1.1 k votes core had 65 predecessor had seven ethereal with eight phoenix rising with two and all of the above Went to 19. So core is still taking the lion's share of the votes. However, uh It seems like a lot of people are starting to pick the all of the above and uh, i'm happy to see that because I think we should be excited for Each and every one of these games. Hopefully our my little show or our little show is having Some sort of effect on that. Um, I imagine it is as these are my subscribers that are voting on this poll. So, right? Interesting stuff and uh, again, I won't be able to do a bar graph because I can't um, you know, two Two polls with the all of the above aren't enough to really substantiate a bar graph. So That's going to be it for the polls and now we're going to move into tech time with rubah This week, we're going to be talking about the gameplay ability system We already kind of mentioned it a little bit when we were talking about amida studios and predecessor And uh, what tech time is if you haven't never watched the show We're talking about what it takes to bring the paragon heroes alive A lot of people think it was just plug and play like oh, you have the assets Just put them into a map and let them play. No, it's a lot more to it than that. Um, You know go back watch some of the other tech times and you could see just So much work goes into this and the gameplay assist ability system seems like a big part of it. So, uh, let's go ahead and check out tech time What's up everybody? Welcome back to tech time. We got rubah back You don't have to deal with me just kind of putting around in the unreal engine this time We got the real professional back With us today and we're going to be talking about the uh gameplay ability system. Is that right rubah? We're going to be talking about uh, yes Yeah, we're going to be talking about a couple of things but gas Our gameplay ability system is going to come up Okay, right on. Um, you can roll right with it, man Cool. Okay. So, um, we're going to talk about abilities in general and I'm going to kind of explain why Some of this stuff is important. Um, and why why gas is like a big topic So core have recently talked about using gas Um, it's one of the uh, the key systems that they want to implement Um sergeant smoky and predecessor they've been implementing gas recently and they've uh Some smoky had a recent live stream that'll link that he goes into a lot of detail about like specifics of it for their project But um, I want to talk a little bit about abilities and why this kind of stuff is important. So Hopefully here on screen, you can see that I have a high res murdoch and a high res twin blast Um, and we're going to talk a little bit about something we talked in a couple of weeks ago Um about client servers and proxies and why that's important. So Imagine we're going to talk about power gone and like imagine back We're doing this. So we have a murdoch and lane and we have a twin blast These are two players and they are playing on their own computers So, um murdoch could be on pc twin blasts could be on playstation. It doesn't really matter But for the intents and purposes they are playing The own version of their game on their computer. We'll refer to that as the client So murdochs and lane And he's playing on his client and twin blast is on his client And they're also playing at the same time on the server. So this kind of red area is the like the server power gone used Amazon web services for their stuff But you effectively have three versions of the game at this point So if I'm murdoch and I've got this little projectile and I want to shoot twin blast It goes through a bunch of stuff For that to actually happen. So bear in mind that there's three versions of the game running just now There's the murdoch version and everything that he sees on screen And there's the twin blast version and everything he sees on screen And then what actually happens on the server Um and the server is sort of like what's called the authority But everything that has to happen in the game has to be confirmed by the server So I'm murdoch and I shoot a bullet at twin blast now When I hit the the shoot key Bear in mind that for murdoch to actually hit twin blast. If you imagine this is like the shot going out and doing it Murdoch says has a ping of 100 milliseconds And I've seen pings in terms of like network latency before Ping just means echo. So when murdoch connects to a twin blast client He will send the bullet through the server to twin blast And that would that would say take I don't know 100 seconds for that to go there and then come back Now because I'm on murdoch's client And I shoot the twin blast. I actually need to tell the server that I've shot twin blast Um and there's a couple different ways of doing this and I'm like if you're really interested in wanting one more more about this I would Go back and look at smoky's Predecessor stream that he put where he goes into this in more details, but effectively what happened with the original predecessor test is Murdoch would shoot the bullet and it would go and it would Think about hitting twin blast and a lot of people experienced client latency or they'd hit the button And nothing would happen and then all of a sudden twin blasts would get shot And what was happening was is the bullet was being sent by murdoch to hit the twin blast But it would actually have to go to the server So murdoch would fire the bullet the server would go, okay, you've shot him It would then say yep, he shot twin blast and then it would have to go back to murdoch Um and murdoch would then need to like, okay. Yes, you hit him So even though you're shooting the enemy, you're not actually hitting them until the server says yep, you hit them So in this instance what happens is that it feels really like unresponsive and I know you I know you are on the The predecessor alpha as well mongoose And you can probably attest to that that kind of feeling of you'd hit the button And then there'd be like a half a second delay or so. Oh, yeah So that was happening because the server basically was always in charge Anything unless the server said yep Hit deal damage Um, so effectively anytime that we're casting abilities or you're moving or You're hitting someone with a basic attack This always needs to go and hit them the enemy person but always needs to be clarified by the server Now a lot of people um where we've said well, you know, paragon didn't have that problem other online first person Shears don't have the same problem And the reason is that they use something called client prediction So what happens is um murdoch shoots the bullet and it hits him blast So you hit the button and the bullet goes out straight away But what would actually happen in the background is you'd shoot the bullet The murdoch Client in the game he's playing you check things like cooldowns and mana. It was an ability that cost mana And it would tell murdoch if he was allowed to do it or not Um, and then murdoch would fire the bullet and it hit twin blast. Oh, it's only happened on murdoch's side Okay, so twin blast doesn't actually know he's been hit yet But murdoch does think he's hit him So that's like kind of where the client prediction comes in. Um, the client predicts if it hits or not Then the next thing that would happen is the server goes. Well, did you actually hit him? And if he does it would go back to murdoch and say yep, you hit him Or if there's some kind of issue such as um twin blast moved Okay, so murdoch fires it and twin blast moves But because twin blasts moved on his end murdoch doesn't actually know he's moved yet So it would miss and in paragon that would probably look like you drop an ability and you're like I definitely hit him like you drop a gyrion rock or a stun And the game server would go. Nope. You missed him And in some instances what would happen is you'd actually shoot and hit and think you hit you actually dealt damage But then the damage would Undo itself Like it would undo like you hit someone you're like oh hit him, but then he's not stunned or something And that's because between the time that you fire it and the server goes. Well, what actually happened? Something's changed Okay so um The like any system like you build for unreal engine Needs to use some kind of client prediction for it. And I think that's where The gameplay ability system Which is epics own version of Like how they do abilities Has came up a lot because that is a system. It was built primarily for paragon And like as the developers were building paragon and adding in all these abilities They figured out this problem. So they built a full system Um, and so that's what gameplay ability system does it does a lot like it's not just for abilities There's like when it's called a system. There's like tons and tons of stuff that it can do so it can do things like Handle of tributes Which are people most commonly call stats on heroes. So like health mana damage crit It can handle all that kind of stuff. So if my dog has like 150 health gameplay ability system can Tell the twin blast the best how much healthy house Um, and the like the like gas isn't special like the gameplay ability system isn't a special system It can do anything that any normal system can show. So what I have and we're going to switch gear slightly Is I actually have an example project here now This is one that is available as part of a udemy course So there's a chat called ambience lee who's put together like an introduction for the gameplay ability system Um That I've had for a while, but I decided to use because it means I don't have to use my own code Okay, but it means I can kind of show you how some of the gameplay ability system works So Let me make that spec Yeah I do that first. Okay. So we have shenby and it's pretty it's a pretty basic system But you see down the bottom she has three tributes. So she has left on the on the left She has the red which is the health Um, she has mana and she has I think it's called shred for this example But this is just a basic system using gameplay ability system Um, I'll kind of quickly show you a couple of the abilities and what they do And then we'll have a quick look at kind of how it works. So the first ability that she has is a dash Which you hopefully Um Can see that some that they're using the original. Um, is it rushing beat rushing temple? Uh, yeah rushing beat Rushing beat. Yeah line tempo was her line tempo was the doggies, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah So, yeah, so it uses that Um, she has another ability that uses a laser which you can see this is just just a tech demo Okay, and she has another ability to get enough mana back Which um, I think this is a stun. Yep. There's a stun does all this Um, and a fire blast and this is all kind of just using gameplay ability system So what I can show you here is not this one. I will show you the dash Just to get an idea. So these abilities you can hopefully see Can be quite complicated And this and this ability only works in single player So it doesn't actually handle any of the client prediction stuff that you need it to do um But um, it's pretty like like all it really is doing is using the gameplay ability system Um, managing some cooldown And then does the dash Um, look at this part here handles the the moving forward. So it moves her forward this impulse Thing here is the actual dash Um, it turns off ground friction Um sets a collision which means let's shouldn't be dashed through the target Place the animation And then this this is more gameplay ability system stuff where it applies damage This is the damage thing here and does all this So this is um Kind of like just like an overview of gameplay ability system. This is one very very small part Which is the ability system it handles as I said before things like cooldowns Um, it handles a system or use the system called the gameplay execution effect Which lets you roll up all your damage calculations into one thing. So it's the really really powerful thing um And for most people it just like it's just this pre-packaged um Set up that anyone can take and drop into an Unreal Engine game Biggest problem with it is that it is a bit of a nightmare to implement Because epic um once again Didn't leave everything in place and the documentation for it is pretty poor Um, and you have to figure out a lot of things Um to get around it Like it's not just a dragon dragon drop-in system Um, it needs a lot of system and a lot of setup, but you can it's basically The the thing that paragon used the thing that fortnite uses to some degree as well So um, if you're going and you're trying to get that paragon feeling Um, this is definitely the system to use and if you decide not to use it You're gonna have to build your own system Um, which is just a lot of time and a lot of extra effort and energy and work to go through okay, so Just put this out to everybody so that they know that all that stuff that was linked together in the system was not there for The game developers to use they couldn't just take that template Attached to shimby and then have brushing beat that's something they had to build on their own Yeah, is that right? Yeah Yeah, so you have to figure out so um like this example here on that one this ability here So you'd have to go and do the animation. So like so shimby here. This is our cast animation. I think You would have to go and design this target on the ground. You would have to go and figure out how you target So if I aim here, it doesn't hit her But then rushing beat does hit her and does damage like you'd have to go figure out design the whole ability Figure out how the damage works adding the animations. Again, this person's just stuck in this basic animation This is just one Um, like there's the lows and those little stuff and you have to figure out a lot of it yourself The documentation online like a couple of people have pulled some stuff together to make it easier for people like trying to use the system but For a lot of the time like you're digging through like source code and c++ and Looking for how things work and even then like a lot of the stuff that you have to build Like isn't even relating to abilities. It's things like how you handle health how you handle crit and things like that Oh, yeah, I didn't even think a crit. That's a whole new layer, huh? Yeah Crip like when you start like when you start digging into gameplay ability system and thinking about things like crit or Even I had a conversation with someone earlier this evening about movement speed Like I guess really complicated really fast like um Paragon had a really complicated movement speed system where they would say like add 300 And unless you know that most peo stars 700 Like adding 300 and then what happens if like you add a slow penalty at the same time Or what happens if you have nitro boost and blue buff like how do you handle all those things? Like it gets really really complicated because you have to figure out a lot of underlying systems Before you can just like just add in a dash. It doesn't quite work like that Right on another thing I should put out Uh, this isn't shim this isn't going to be shimby's kit in any game out there. This is a demonstration only Don't flip out Yeah, this is this this this represents no active game development. Let's say this is um from a udemy course It's by a chap called ambience lee. Um, if you go into udemy and search for gameplay ability system, you'll find this course Um, it's quite basic. It covers a lot like like just how like it works It doesn't cover any multiplayer or server stuff like that I wouldn't imagine shimby from any of the paragon remakes would look quite like this This is just using the shimby assets Because they're available in our real marketplace and anyone can use them. Yeah Right on very cool. Yeah, that's uh The more I learned the more I realized how very complicated it is to to build these games and holy crap Yeah, I think when you start like um like like I always say like if people want to get into unreal engine building maps Is probably easiest thing because it's like say I want to build a map. Okay. This is like a really basic thing So I'm on real engine and moving around and I can go, you know, what let's um, let's go get some geometry Let's go box in Okay, and we can pop a box in and we can do stuff for the box and like things like that And like that's relatively simple like building maps, especially if you're using assets that epic are provided Like life gets really easy. But when you start thinking about a hero and like doing abilities like there's so many Decisions and work that needs to be done And like behind the scenes that you'll never see as a player to actually have a game that works and plays properly Let's hope uh, let's hope they can get this uh, the the what's the abbreviation you just call it gas gas What is it? What's the cool lingo for it? um People call it gas people call it gameplay belly system because gas is kind of a lame acronym, but The gameplay belly system gameplay belly system or gas both works people usually know what you're talking about Okay, well, let's hope uh, let's hope everybody can implement the gas and do it well I really need to get in here and learn how to do some of this stuff um, as I say like there's uh Gas I definitely wouldn't recommend gas for a learner like it like you can do a lot of it in blueprints So like what I'm looking in here is blueprints So you can see a lot of uh, like this is just like there's like dropping Like what we'll actually see in a minute when we go into the third section of tech time this week Um, and I'll show you a bit more detail But like you kind of drag and drop these boxes in but a lot of gas actually uses C++ and you have to use C++. There's no way to get around it. Um, and if I load up visual studio here Which hopefully should take just it shouldn't take too long. Here we go So you can see that quite quickly. Um, a lot of uh, this code stuff starts coming into place That you have the you have to use and a lot of the time you don't really have a choice about what you used for it Um, like it can get quite scary when you start getting into code. So Yeah, not for the light hearty, but it's definitely um Definitely uh things people can get into if they want to start playing about with a new engine Okay, let's uh, let's move on into the topic of discussion for this week and the topic for discussion for this week We're uh, we've now seen all four maps. We've seen phoenix rising the map first And then we saw uh ethereal's first map and then predecessors map and now core's map So now we can take a look at all of them together And uh, we're gonna talk a little bit about some of the the upsides and some of the downsides So let's go in order of when they were released and talk about phoenix rising's map. Um It's probably been a while since you guys took a look at the phoenix rising map. Um, do you remember anything about it? I definitely colorful Oh, sorry I was just gonna say I definitely had to go back and remind myself and I was honestly I was blown away all over again. I was like, oh, yeah, I forgot how kick-ass this looked So it's it's definitely cool. Um, very very colorful. I like what they showed the comparison Of air before and after when they started using quicksul. I think it is so and that made it look just So it's uh looking good And then the whatever that like prime guardian or like whatever that Beast is that uh, I don't remember the hero that stand in front of it. I don't know if it has an Looks looks bad ass. That's for sure. I think that's uh, ariela ariela or I think aurora something like that ariela That's the one that was standing in front of the prime beast. But yeah, that big kaiju thing that was a almighty gur Uh designed that and it is absolutely amazing He uh, he had to he had to leave the team not because of any kind of like creative differences or anything but just because you know life happens and he had to move on but um What mainly was talked about with the quicksul mega scans. That's um, that helps them improve their textures without also like Screwing up your fps. It's kind of a new cool system that they were using and um I didn't think textures were that big of a deal until we started testing the core map And people were like really digging into it to the dirt say it looked like minecraft dirt And I'm like it's an alpha map who cares about the dirt There's other things to look at but people really do care about that stuff And if that's something you care about then uh, maybe phoenix rising is more up your alley with their with their mega textures there and um Kind of another thing is people i've seen a lot of people but for both uh predecessors map and uh in cores map saying that they wanted more like Like huge mushrooms and a variety of vegetation and everything that's on the phoenix rising map people that is on the phoenix rising map Like all that stuff is already there. I think that might be what's influencing people asking about that though They probably remember seeing that on the phoenix rising map and then they're looking at the core and the predecessor map They're like kind of projecting what they already knew from phoenix rising onto those maps, but um I think the big one of the things that I thought like Well, when I played it on ps4 paragon and I would see my brother playing on pc Like I saw like flowing grass on pc where it really like Moved and it looked like very natural and then on ps4 It was just like it was like the more minecraft or and or grass You know whatever you want to call it and I was like wait How can I like change my settings to make it a little bit more like flowy like that like is that possible? But it wasn't so I guess I guess that is kind of a big deal for for some people for sure I mean I guess it was for me Yeah, no, I think I mean obviously the drawback for phoenix rising's map is it is almost certainly changed a lot since june so That map that we saw it could be totally different by now And we're just still waiting on some updates from those guys to see what they've done and um As we've mentioned before There their their first tech demo is going to be a one lane map a 3v3 with a one lane map That's not the the game the game will be you know a full five on five three lane map But the first tech demo the first Little taste we get of the new map will be a one lane map So that's going to be cool to see and hopefully we see it pretty soon And then um, what was that? What was the second map? Oh, yeah ethereal's map ethereal I don't know if we may have seen a ethereal's map even before The phoenix rising map, but you know the first instance of Ethereal's map there wasn't a lot of verticality. It was very flat. It was very it was very smite like I would say Even though, you know, they do have the tiers like, you know, your bottom lanes here your middle lanes here And then your top lanes here That was still there, but there wasn't any verticality within those lanes And then they changed that came out with a new map and it is absolutely stunning just incredible. Mike. I know you've been following ethereal Almost if not more than I have. What do you think of ethereal's map? Oh, sorry. I kind of had what I think of the map. Um, I think it's like it obviously like you said it's beautiful I think the one thing we can all agree on with all these maps is we're going to get a beautiful map We're going to play in an awesome place Um, but it is huge. It does seem pretty humongous. Um, which I don't have an issue with I love the verticality of it like top middle and bottom Um, it just it looks awesome. Uh, I can't wait to get on it I mean, we've seen some bunnies running around on it. We've seen Uh, what malaya run around on it maybe do like some interesting ability where it covers herself and like a red orb But you know besides that, you know, we haven't really seen too much more on it But I mean there's dragons flying around. There's I mean all kinds of crazy stuff Maybe I remember man You mentioned one day on a on a different further minions podcast or episode that uh, there's maybe going to be some Cannons, so I mean I couldn't be I couldn't be more excited for this map than I already am Yeah, I'm good. I'm interested to see how um, it's going to play into um What are the ones that can destroy? Is it berserkers that can destroy? Yeah I'm excited to see what that's all going to be about like what can you destroy what can you You know interact with and everything that's going to be what I'm uh excited to see some Like some examples of if they give us like some gameplay pretty soon. That would be really cool It'd be nice to see if that stuff is going to come back to like after it After it's destroyed if it's going to eventually respawn or not. Oh, right But uh, yeah, I think definitely the drawbacks for their map is that it is so ambitious that it just may not work Um, and we have no idea what the meta is going to be with a map like that. Um It doesn't seem like a gimmick to me It seems like it will impact gameplay, but we don't know how much is going to impact gameplay There's so much just unknown about ethereal But I think as far as I'm concerned out of all four maps if you were to have to ask me which one is the best looking um, I would say ethereal's map they they weren't constrained by Having to use paragon assets and having to make their map look like Um any of paragon's old maps. They just went with their own thing So now we have these huge redwood forests. We've got sand dunes. We've got big stone arches all kinds of crap on that thing and it is just Absolutely beautiful and amazing and I can't wait for ethereal Yeah, they've got some pyramids on that. I mean, I mean, I think it's different maps But like they've got like a pyramid huge pyramid themed map like maybe an egyptian style thing. I mean They just have so much stuff going for them. I think I mean as far as how big it is and maybe like moving around as far as like If if heroes or myths as they call them can like move around quick enough I don't think see that being a problem. Um, the other thing that I was thinking about was like If they do have, you know cannons or teleporters or whatever the way is for people that aren't, you know, skysclayers or, you know What's the other one that can run on walls like I said, whatever the assassin Reapers, reverse Reapers like like if if if it's a teleporter can't you could could you maybe just camp a spawn for wherever you're gonna come from As far as like if there's a if somebody if you know somebody is gonna come through a cannon because you have a ward there or something You know, all of you guys could just gang up on that cannon spawn point and just absolutely blitz on as soon as they come out I know that's one thing like their core is kind of like a separate area That has um portals that lead to all three lanes But there's actually you can see through the portal into the lane to see if there is people Trying to hide to to to take you out as soon as you come out of come out of that portal So I don't know if it'll be the same with cannons or not a lot a lot remains to be seen about ethereal And then I think the uh the next map we saw um Well, I don't know if you want to count the grayscale map It was core, but I don't think we really want to count the grayscale map I think we should probably count uh predecessors map next And I think definitely the big highlight for predecessors map was such a heavy influence from The legacy paragon map and that's what a lot of people are looking for um Uh big shout out to fringe because you know you could watch him like looking at old legacy videos and looking at legacy pictures And then going directly off of that to try and build The map for predecessors and it definitely felt like legacy with a few kinks thrown in like the um Like the jump pad going across the jungle and that sort of thing. So Mandy you probably had you had you had a lot more experience with the map than uh than than mike did What did you think of a predecessors map? That's actually one of my biggest regrets during the alpha is that I didn't take the time to explore the map because I was so like Okay, I'm playing muriel. I need to stay in my lane and not you know I should have looked at it more of what it was which was an alpha You know way to go and explore because I really did I didn't even get to try the jump pad I didn't even get to like shoot across the the thing but um Loading in for the first time. I just stood there like looking around like oh my gosh. This is it was stunning Fringed it's such an awesome job. Um, you know like like mike said looks wise All of these maps are killing it. Um, but just to set foot on a gora again was so cool and um Definitely like I said one of my big regrets is that I didn't explore the map enough, but um me and intharth We kind of got to play around a little bit and and and uh, we were Dueling murdox and we were like, let's see if we can like shield bash each other off the map and stuff And so that that was pretty fun. But yeah, it was it was a blast and it was looking really really good Uh, mike, what do you think what did you think about a predecessors map and uh the whole legacy being so heavily influenced by legacy Well, I don't have a lot of like legacy experience Well zero legacy experience actually I started when the game was on monolith, but um I thought it looked beautiful. I mean as I said before all the games are going to look great, but um the I thought it was all I mean, I don't have any real negative comments Or any I mean besides the fact that it looks great as far as positive comments, but Um, the one thing I thought of was like I think I don't remember if it was was predecessor or not But I think somebody mentioned like shortcuts through the jungle for very Like agile characters or heroes And I was just thinking like hmm. Is that going to be maybe a little bit too much of like, uh Advantage if it's like built-in shortcuts where like Back in monolith you could there were shortcuts Technically for like a wukong or a calari that could jump over a wall or something But it felt so natural didn't feel like oh, I'm taking the shortcut to get to this place Like it just felt like it felt like oh, I'm breaking the map right now Like I'm going over something that I shouldn't be going over so I just think I just think maybe if they if they do too much with like shortcuts throughout the map for heroes that are already You know gifted ability or agility wise, you know, maybe You know that could be an issue, but I don't know at the same time, you know There were already shortcuts in monoliths. So, you know, I could just be full of it My biggest fear for their map is that they are somewhat limiting themselves by trying to emulate the legacy map so much because I mean, you know Let let fringe get let fringe get creative is what I say Let him do his thing. Maybe not spit us a stick so So much to the legacy thing so Yeah, and he's a he's a creative and ambitious guy So that would be really cool if they were just like turn him loose and see what he comes up with that'd be really cool Then uh, moving on to the cores map, which we've all been seeing a whole lot of Lately and uh, of course it is absolutely amazing and Beautiful and there's a lot going on there. I've already voiced Uh, the the problems I had with the map through several venues. I think even on here last week. So, uh Let's get in. Um, mic. What do you think of the cores? map Well, I think it was I I don't have too many negative I didn't take too much time to really like get into and really watch the different maps to see You know what I liked what I didn't like necessarily But one of the things I noticed looking back at it recently was I believe on map b um in the in the base, there's You know very large barriers between the inhibitors And I'm not a big fan of that. I like it being wide open The taking the time to rotate around that barrier to get to to defend an inhibitor that's maybe being split pushed might be Quite the disadvantage. So I don't know if I necessarily really care for that the other thing is If you are running away from a chimera in the jungle on Either of those maps, you're not going to get away because those things are long and they are very narrow and they're Very tall walls on both sides of you. So you're basically dead if you run into chimera On as a carrier or like a caster alone in the jungle Well, it's uh, they wanted to be imposing and it certainly is imposing. So Yeah, go with your buddy. Yeah Buddy system, right Uh, mandy, what do you what do you have to say about the cores map? um one thing that initially for me was a big pro um was The width of the lanes. I thought they seemed Really really nice and big for team fights. And then I was watching. Oh gosh, I don't remember who stream it was um I don't want to say a name because I don't want to give anybody, you know The wrong credit But I was watching somebody stream it and they said that that might actually be a little bit of an issue with the With the lanes being as wide as they were. Um, I think it was like giving advantage to um Pastors or something like that. So it was like, oh, yeah, something that I initially because I I played Like as a carrier in a specific role. I didn't think about how a wide off lane would affect somebody. So um, it was it was definitely interesting to to get everybody's point of view and um and see what Uh things that I thought were pros maybe weren't in in other, you know, when when seen in a different light So but I gotta say man Freakin gorgeous that map. I loved like that pearlescent mother pearl look on the thing. Oh my gosh It was just it was stunning beautiful. Yeah, not not much bad can be said about course map so far. That's uh Not much the only thing we can really say is that We we got to play on it. We got to play on it to really find out how it's going to work and how it's going to be and uh um if aesthetically It's kind of like I don't know why there's these brand new towers And then these crumbling ruins right next to them Like that's kind of weird, but I mean that's just such a small little nitpick thing Never really thought of that Yeah, and I thought like on monolith's map like I thought that that mid lane was very perfectly made like it It was pretty solid for team fights. I mean there was some some definite elevation change Where you could really make some things happen and then obviously that you know jungle being on both sides of you of course But like is cores map is that mid lane? It's pretty flat, isn't it? um It's or sorry as far as the mid lane like itself Isn't that relatively flat and then it like goes off on the side as far as the jungle No, well with the new one. I mean it's like they got the cliffs That are kind of like okay if my hands are looking at the top part Like it's kind of open here And that's got these cliffs right here. And then each side goes out to the uh To the river bobs. I think I think it looks good. I just kind of wish the cliffs instead of being like right next to each other Uh, I wish they were like this like offset. So I'm doing a lot of stuff with my hands this episode I'm layering maps I'm probably throwing gang signs that don't even know it So, uh, you guys have anything else you wanted to say about the maps Everybody's looking good can't wait to actually get boots on the ground and run around. Yep. Yeah, let me run let me run around on that map. Hey Now for uh Moving on to the community suggestions We're going to bring back the skin ideas once again because like I said I couldn't get through all of them last time and I'm not going to be able to get through all of them this time Once again, I didn't have time to get pictures. I'm sorry. Sorry guys just Work has been crazy for me. Um But community skin ideas, uh, hikari music came up with a baseball severog Which is one I always thought he should have because of mainly because of colossal blow like Just put a little hat on it. Yep big old baseball bat instead of a scythe All right, I think that would be so funny to see like it's still the hood and no face But a baseball cap like I just think that would be hysterical Yes Some socks just floating down because he has no feet Yes, oh my god. Yes And then uh, nick tana who we uh reference him the community builder last time I don't know if you noticed in that community builder the gruck skin that uh, nick tana had drawn was a grandma gruck skin I think everybody has been asking for a grandma gruck skin ever since They kind of released that little blurb of his lure where uh, he was like his grandma was tougher than him or some Shit like that But uh, yeah, I think that's uh, that's a community favorite that everybody wants to see and I would really like to see grandma grog's uh, go check out nick tana if you want to see his drawing of it and uh Marco Antonini came up with a steam steampunk crunch skin This is one also seems like a perfect fit and we were talking about steampunk earlier with a with ethereal skins Uh, what do you guys think of a steampunk crunch? I thought any character that would go well with steampunk crunch Just like that would be so cool like see gears and like a little top hat and I just think that would be really cool I think so for sure. I think they all need a little bit of one. Yeah Everybody should get one. It's definitely something that just looks so cool You can make almost any character look really cool with some steampunk. Oh my god. If they if they gave crunch a monocle Oh my god, that would be the that would be the greatest I was thinking goggles, but you're right. A monocle would be amazing I think eventually we'll probably see a human crunch where it's like a mic ties and punch out box Kind of kind of grub or kind of somebody in the skin ideas Uh mentioned a pop eye crunch skin, which is absolutely perfect because of huge forearms, you know I don't know why the idea of a humanoid looking crunch creeps me out. I don't know what that says about me Well, maybe because like the body proportions would be so inaccurate that it would just be very weird The stuff of nightmares, man. Plus his little fur flap always looked like a penis to me Oh my god, yes It did but the balls were on top and sort of behind So weird so weird which is a weird way to have your balls poor crunch And then uh, we don't all have our balls like that I don't know mine are so small. I can't really tell What did I tell you the other day Mandy? I'm 40 years old. My balls hang lower than buddha's ear lobes I was like I stuck on the s by b and my boss wanted me to take a picture of it Oh god So uh, moving on to uh, we had a rogue route Uh, he wanted individual country skins. I think that's really cool. Um, like like usa skins or Spain skin, whatever just whatever country you want. I think it would be really great If you could just represent in the game with a uh individual country skin Um, this seems like a great fit all around and I see no problems with it at all Yeah, I think that would be so cool and it would be so fun to see all the americans not know what the other Is that texas? No, that's Puerto Rico. Yes Is that texas? Oh, I once mistaked a stripper's outfit for to be a texas bikini. It was uh, it was Puerto Rico. It was Puerto Rico Found out quick. I did in a language. I don't know Moving on we got dylan roth. Um, we got another grim skin A pizza oven grim and his alt is a big deep dish pizza that comes Firing out and hit you in the eye like a big a pizza pie. I think that's There's the one grim was in the game We're doing a show a lot for youtube a bunch of people are gonna watch it. So they're gonna be in front of them Oh So mike shows me up with his eyes as dad shows me up with the beard. Oh my god He said you guys are made That is Yes Subscribe for more for more mark Oh So back back to grim I don't know why he didn't get more skins. Um, he was he was one of the original ones I mean he wasn't in the he wasn't one of the original ones, but he was in the game pretty quick After after it came online and he just like hip decker decker was one of the original ones She she got what arctic skin and like energy Something skin like why didn't some of the heroes get skins and the other ones did it's so weird Yeah, she seemed to just get a bunch of like recolors, which was kind of just disappointing But one of the things I thought about this skin as soon as I heard it or you know reddit was um, If his displacement bomb was like a big meatball Displaces everybody maybe make maybe makes them all you know gives him a bunch of meat, you know Puts a bunch of sauce on everybody Oh, that would be great It like he has like breadsticks that shoot out instead of little energy bolts. Oh, that'd be great Oh, I can dig it. I can dig it put a fucking yeah one of those big chefs hats on him Yes, oh my god. Yes, I am picking up what you're putting down I think we're about to become the team that decides all the skins for the entire For all three games or four games. It's my subs man. My subs are amazing. They have great ideas So uh moving on from a community suggestions. Let's go with the community builder and this week It's going to be recollection. Um, he's just starting to do some videos on mid above and core He did like an introduction to himself and then he did like a part one part two where he um He just you know tried to break things down for everybody So if you want go ahead check out recollection uh recommend him very small I think he has like you know 40 something subs so uh Go hit him up man Hit him up give him a try if you like him subscribe if you don't you know move on that's uh, that's how youtube works But that is going to pretty much wrap things up except for Plugs uh mandy got anything to plug I have something to plug I actually did some work. So I I put out a little uh, not a little a long mediocre gaming where I played until dawn So if you want to see me get scared Go and check that out and then I have officially streamed now like twice on twitch So I don't want to brag or anything But I'm pretty much a professional streamer. So if you guys want to come check out that shit show, you know pop on by Everybody loves a shit show Everybody yeah, my first time. Um, I was streaming red dead and I accidentally shot someone. I'm the accidental outlaw. So Uh, mike you got anything you want to plug? Yeah, nothing to plug. Uh, just want to say though. Thank you guys for having me Uh, if you want to check out my channel go for it if you don't no big deal Uh, kind of just do it talk off the top of my head. Um, I don't like to keep all the thoughts inside So I like to like let them out and I don't have a lot of people to talk paragon with so You know, I might as well put it on a youtube video, right? But check it out if you want like I said if you don't want to no big deal Just doing it for fun. So but like I said, thanks for having me guys. Yeah, it's been great You've been an absolutely great guest host Uh, you you always bring up a lot of solid good points in your videos And you definitely brought that to for the minions and I appreciate that dude Um Before I can give you a chance to respond I'm going to move on. Uh I thought you were going to move on so I was just going to be like Thanks, man so, uh our patreon, of course and uh Unhappy campers still are uh are only patron for now But uh, you know, thanks very much and happy campers at patreon.com For the minions if you want to hit that up and help us out and the other thing I kind of want to plug is started a an actual podcast with uh NATO crystal it's called a core cast and that one's all about made above and core not the other games. Hopefully, uh Maybe I'll start some podcasts for the other games too. Um But yeah, if you guys want to check that out, it's going to be pretty cool. And uh, by the way, I know I said something about itunes It's going to be on as many uh platforms as possible. So android users will be able to access it as well So I think that is going to be it for this episode of for the minions. This was a fun one. I had a lot I had a really good time. Um, I came into this really tired and now I feel Completely energized. So thank you madey. Thank you. Mike. It's been really awesome having you guys and uh Yeah, I think that's going to wrap it up. We will see y'all later I really need to work on my outros man goose