 Always stepping up our game always hello everybody if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer And that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer weekly Joining me as always is my co-host Tom. What's going on buddy? How you doing? Hello friends? How's it going? It is Partially your fault for various and sundry reasons, but this was truly a group effort at our being a few minutes late today I'll take that there's somebody else joining us here though somebody who wants to say a little something Tom Would you like to introduce our momentary special guest to the show our momentary or our short special guests? I'm not gonna say anything about your son's height. That's rude and mean two weeks ago I As my pick of the week chose my son's YouTube channel Just to kind of do a shout-out. He was at 600 and some subscribers and we wanted to promote that and and You all did And so We Let me say it this way. I didn't expect him to go viral So he hit 4k subscribers today has a video almost at a 600,000 Or so views he had a million views On his content at this point. So Wes you have something to say This is my son Wesley. Hey guys, um, I would just like to thank you all for your all support You guys have made Just my last two two to three weeks. It's awesome And I love your all support. Thank you so much and and that's right That's right. I'll put the link down in the show notes again If you're interested in fortnight content and all that stuff and you want to see Tom's awesome son Do some fun content to check it out. The link will be down below. Thank you Yeah, you go go to bed Have a good night. West. It's good to see you. Thank you. Thank you everybody. Thank you, buddy I have known Wes. I've known that child since he was born This entire life you got a good kid there. You got a good kid and I'm glad to see you Awesome people who went out and supported him and subbed or watched his stuff or anything like that Yeah, I it's like studying like again. I expected a bump Maybe has to hit a thousand subscribers not for him to hit 4,000 and to go viral with one of his videos And it's not even him playing. It's like dancing or something and that's fine. Here's the answer Here's this is simple Tom. Look the reality is a lot of people watching this right now Probably aren't that interested in fortnight or what your son's throwing down. Okay, that's that's the reality, but but the average AOS player is a 36 year old father, okay, and That person's son or daughter their child Okay, is 100% interested in fortnight content and watching it anyways So why shouldn't they be watching your sons? That's what I say, okay? Like we need to get the collective community's kids on to where like this is how we get to the next generation We did there the older generation once you're dying one foot in the grave We just pass it along to the next generation to take our place Yeah, I again, I like I'm just baffled by it. I will say this Wes I'll just sell this now The plan is Wes is gonna join me this fall at holy havoc for doubles. So he's gonna be my partner this year Vince and I believe Tyler are gonna carry on the Warhammer weekly title yeah For for their team and Tyler will be partnering with Vince this fall And and Wes is gonna come with me and we're gonna be Warhammer occasional. It'll be great. There you go Yeah, very accurate. All right. Well, thank you everybody with that little I don't know sidetrack out of the way. Let's get to the news for tonight We're gonna talk about a OS 4.0 in our hope since it was announced last week. So Let's get amongst it with some news. What do we got first off? Why is it? Rumor engine. Yeah, something new and different folks It's a drill thing that's got a skull on it It's a 40k thing Yep, okay, it's a 40k They can all be winners Wouldn't it be nice if we actually had models for a OS fourth edition? Well, Tom, that's where I want to start out because the other big news from the week Obviously now we already did a show recapping it but you weren't here. I had everybody else Scott was there John was there, okay? Marty was there Tyler was there. We had the little crew Tom was too good to come join us at adepticon now on one hand You know, he can count his lucky stars and garters that that he did not have to sit in that room and be tortured by the Baton death march that was the presentation that they gave for an hour and a half that was awful Hard bass, I'm I'm very content not being there this year. Yeah, even your stories that I heard it's real was real bad But that being said Of course, what did you think of everything Tom? What did you think of the stuff from the reveals? Yeah, it's fine Like I'm excited about the dawn bringers like you know the most exciting thing about like all of the reveals to me was I'm ready. What was that? The oxy terrain the oxy terrain. Okay. Yeah, like that weird spinning Like chaos terrain thing. I was like, mm-hmm. Tell me more about this Tell me more about what you're wanting to do here It's just a very interesting like We haven't seen them like double down on something like that in a while Of like specialized terrain Name to a specific location having a specific function And given all the language that they used around like the trajectory towards like these focal points and and all of that stuff It just makes me wonder like if terrain really is going to be a big part of the new addition. Sure sure I Have to what will that that will align perfectly with our hopes for AOS 4.0 later on But this was my favorite little thing from there, which is Abraxia now This is the the spear of the ever-chosen, right? Yeah, what's that spear do though, right? What does it do if only they would have told us how this spear works? The number like good God I've beat up on this enough, but do better next time GW That was terrible and whoever was responsible for that you made the wrong choice feel bad Okay, I want you to feel bad. I want you to feel bad about your choices. You did bad Content-wise it was great as far as like what you the the stuff and and like is nice to record all those interviews Make them supplementary content that goes up on an article afterward. Yeah, it'd be okay so Yeah, she's who it looks super cool. I dig the model dig the dig her like I love big giant super chaos lords So like do you really like that the model though? Yeah, she's cool Like she is cool, but the lizard thing Like I don't mind the light. I think it's fine like the iguana with horns. Like I don't know like I looked at it actually like I Don't know if it's the shape of the body, but it just looks very No, this is a terrible angle as per you GW is the worst at taking pictures of its own figs because like scroll down here Look at this angle for this second picture, right? You go down the article and you can see like from the side this dude looks amazing like look at the side of this Guy's face. It looks great. It's just that straight down the barrel shot is like completely terrible Yeah, so Yeah, I don't know. I just There's just something about the scaling or something that I don't like and I don't know what it is, okay Maybe it's the green color like if it was purple or something like that it may be more punchy There's just something about it that just like does not interest me. I get you. I get you Like I like very guard like I like chaos lords like that. Yeah. Yeah I mean, she very much is in the classic chaos baron guard design space, right? What I actually liked about the the big BC was the restraint what I mean by that is like there actually is just a lot of Space-time that's just kind of like scales and monster and then he's got like the armor panels along his back I honestly think it'd be a fun paint job I Might cut this like goofy little fire off of her weapon. I don't know about that. Yeah I think like I think I think like this little it's got like a fly It's got like it's got the floppy hair from the goth kid on South Park on it, you know Like that could probably just go We don't need that that it's just just a cool looking spear is fine So, but yeah, yeah, this is good. It's fine like it's Yeah Okay, anything else catch your attention from the preview. I mean obviously we'll talk in-depth about AOS 4 and everything on that I don't know anything else from the rest of stuff I the I'm excited about the very like bees. We had the war cry announcement, right, which was The the bad Trying to remember we who who was paired up with the The OBR Was that Sylvaneth? Yeah, it's a Sylvaneth. The Sylvaneth looked really nice. I like I like those alternate sculpts I think the Sylvaneth looked good. I think the OBR looked dumb. I agree The OBR was painfully Woefully uninteresting Yeah, I just I like I was really hoping for Valkia if I'm being honest, like I'm looking I was hoping that we'd see something heavy corn And we just didn't so we just keep passing that opportunity by Reese reef re sculpted corks call re sculpted Valkia. We're just like we're just blowing these opportunities by who knows Maybe maybe we'll get it come forth like maybe they're waiting for the story to actually resolve since this lady actually takes part in the six Look, you know, yeah, like I just I guess I assumed that Valkia would right like I assumed that we would finally get their Participation so I don't know I just it's fine like nothing really jumped out at me other than again that that terrain piece was really interesting I'm like tell me more about this. Sure. Um Yeah, yeah, I mean realistically the You know like the little underworlds bands were kind of goofy but fun and interesting the fec were kind of boring But the weird human guys who like lightning was fun. Um, I thought she was pretty sweet The war cry stuff was like at best 50-50 for me, honestly, and I don't really love the work I wore bands as a whole I find them kind of annoying because I just kind of find they're like menagerie of base sizes and Cavalcades of weirdos to be not my favorite types of units But that being said You know, I mean, I think the biggest letdown and I agree with you completely was how were we this? How do we not see a single model? Oh With the AOS for announcement how how I like it's truly it's baffling like if only, you know, that's what you sell, right? You don't sell story Company just real quick here. This is just for game. Gw. Hey Yeah, exactly like hey real quick guys you remember that you're in the business of selling models Right and from those models are generated like those models are are are the result and around these models we tell stories and And have rules so we can play with our little toys, but the models are the center of it if you wanted to be a solely a sort of Fiction printing company or something. Okay by all means go right ahead. I encourage you to join that dying media but You know like What the hell it's truly shocking You know like I just I Don't mind the fact that they were a bit obtuse on like what the detail of the rules and launch and stuff would look like that I'll roll out through articles. I get that Right But just like I don't and I don't need every I don't need the launch box like that would have been cool You should have shown the launch box. They didn't but that's fine. I don't need it. Okay. Yeah I could but but like one model of each From from that they did that last year for 10th 40k. They showed the Terminator and the Termagon Right, they're like there you go. They're like what else is in the box? I don't know What do you think is in the box like well the stuff in the trailer? That's what I think is in a box same thing I think here Okay, so and that's fine. I my imagination can work right but just show me something give me something to grab on How about silhouettes? No show two models two models The basic trooper in each box nothing special Save the save the razzmatazz Okay for later to drive them clicks. I get it whoever's in charge of website That has like the responsibility of farming clicks. I understand Okay, but you know what'll get a lot of clicks a couple cool models in the launch article At any rate. Oh, we beat them up enough for this sort of It's disappointing. That's all I'm gonna say. Yeah At any rate. So, I mean that was basically the news. I mean that's been kind of everything You know, there's there's other than that it was a deptcon weekend. So a deptcon things happened It was a lot of fun Like the a deptcon was truly truly truly a wonderful time. I enjoyed it so much every year I got to hang out with a bunch of people. I really only get to see maybe at a deptcon or once or twice a year I got to play some commander with Hay-Woe and a couple other guys. That was very fun. We had some great games I got to do a we all played magically two of the nights Tom you would have loved this this cube draft. We did we did a cube draft of with my particular buddy who has a collection that would truly make most people weep But it was an alpha through alliances cube draft So like you've got three packs and you'll let the pack over and it's like well What do I want out of this pack? Do I want the black lotus or the misher's workshop or the candelabra of Taunos or the acation javelin ear? And you'd be surprised how often you take that acation javelin ear. I'm just saying it's a hot pick No, I get it. I get those red laces. Those red laces not working not doing a lot of work So at any rate it was it was a great time got to see a bunch of people got to teach a bunch of classes all that was Fantastic and yeah, really really really fun Okay, so yeah, that was I don't I think that's all the news there you go Let's uh, let's move on As I grab my piece of paper over here to chart a timestamp. Okay Let's uh Tom, let's talk about some pick of the week What would you like to share with everybody? Yeah, I mean, this isn't real surprising, but obviously a friend of the show Honest wargamer Rob is doing a bunch of 4.0 content and so I always enjoy engaging Rob's various perspectives and I enjoyed his His kind of like what do we know about fourth edition? Video that he did kind of on the other side of the announcements Okay, nice well the one thing I didn't mention from adept con that obviously did happen there was golden demon and That relates to my pick of the week, I really didn't participate this year for obvious reasons and But I but obviously I first want to give a shout out to my homie my brother And arms mr. John Nina's who after many years of being a bridesmaid and getting to the finals He got there, baby. He got their top three When they announced his name and it came upon a screen. I don't know that I've ever been happier for a friend of my life It was it was truly an amazing moment and like myself and Scott and Sam all got up and we were just like hugging him in the aisle it was It was really wonderful. It was just I don't know It was a really important moment and I'm just really proud of him and all the work he put into that and it was well-earned and completely deserved And then at the same time Sam and Ben two other people who I was there with also took home some trophies as well so it was a All around a great win glorious glorious victory for many people in my little my little paint Cule so that was great and So John Sam and Ben all brought home some some hardware was very happy to see that I will say Tom I was less stressed than I have been an adept con in years not competing amazing. It was great It did seem to be better run this year certainly logistically it was a lot better run I I know I know who is in charge of running it and they did a great job I will say that if they happen to watch this they know who they are Like from a logistics and operational perspective. It was absolutely fantastically smooth and efficient. So well done To that person who I know worked very very very hard on keeping everything running cleanly and smoothly and the There was of course. Tom. It can't be golden demon without some controversy. Okay And the controversy was one of the winners in one of the categories had a backdrop and that backdrop was a printed backdrop Now first of all, that's already shouldn't you should already be not winning for a printed backdrop That's like that's that's a no-no in every contest. I've ever seen in my life, right? Like you just don't print things out. It's an art contest. That's number one That should just be like bargain basement. Everybody should know that The figure by the by was exceptionally well-painted with the printed background With the figure itself is what I'm saying the figure. Thank you. Are you talking about the same piece? Yeah, yeah, yeah, the figure with a printed figure with a printed background figure was great Okay, like it felt like the artist you should have buzzed the back of the whole thing off. It didn't need it It really didn't need it. Okay. It was it was the piece could have stood on its own All right, but in addition to being a printed backdrop, it was also AI generated art Mmm AI artist theft That is simply what it is. It is not anything else There's no two ways about it. It doesn't make up its own stuff. It steals and So Tom you and I have been around we've been in the magic world And you know how much wizards has been raked over the coals for even using AI art in like promotional materials, right? Not even like not on a magic heart or anything like that I'm just talking like in a Facebook advertisement right now And so, you know, that's just wild to me that it's wild that it was a printed backdrop that won alone I don't you what I don't like the yeah, I don't know how the judges would have necessarily known It was AI art like that's something that came to be known But there was no back drama Right. Yeah, exactly. There's not like somebody with six fingers just hanging out in the background, right? um But like the but the nature of it being printed should have should have honestly that like the piece was strong enough Just cut the back of the thing off and and enter your piece. Okay, let's stop it Yeah, or if you're gonna do a background then paint one backgrounds are perfectly fine if you're using them to enhance the story Yeah, so that was the controversy over that, you know, I They should put official rules in That's what they should that's what should happen because they already don't allow you to do joint entries Yeah, right. That is to say like I can't enter. I can't have somebody else sculpt something for me And then I paint an entry Yeah, yeah, and so a the Like they should just put in rules that say like an AI is what is that if not a joint entry, right? You're relying on thousands of other people instead of just one other one. So yeah, but but That's later sort though. Oh, it's incredible. That's a that's Alex Who's a great dude really really really really great guy talk to him for several years now Got to hang out with him some I told him straight up on like day one. It was one of my favorite pieces It's not my favorite piece in the case. I thought it was creative original fantastic I was really really happy to see the judges award something so creative and different With that No, with it with the with the slightest word. That's very different than what we've seen Where the green where the where the glowing eyes mirrored Were the glowing eyes mirrored the in the treat no one purpose no that that thing did not go into but did not show up in that in the mirror Interesting interesting. Okay. Yeah, I talked to him about like what he chose to mirror and whatnot And he like he like everything was thought very deeply about that, but I truly and incredibly No, I said so. Yeah, yeah So Somebody had asked do they judge the background? Yes, of course everything you put on your entry is judged period I saw some people in comments and stuff were talking about this saying like well, don't they just judge the figure No, if they just judge the figure that is insane. You present a piece. They judge the piece That's one of the problems with golden demon is that they judge everything the more things you put on the more Elements you interact the more chances you have to fail and it's a technical subtractive contest where they look for flaws So the more area the more space the more things you do the more you introduce chances to make mistakes to have flaws And hence get your piece reduced So they often like the challenge of the golden demon has always historically been that they don't really tend to award much in the way For creativity or risk-taking like that's not like you you can look at the thing you go Well, this is a higher degree of difficulty a lot of art shows we a lot of Competitions that I judge will judge on degree of difficulty right like how complicated was the thing they were trying to do Right, that's not really part of golden demon. Okay, I mean not really I mean category to category they look at it differently, but within the category. They don't judge like that Anyway The pick of the week here that this is all related to is called to paint who is down below Who did a very excellent golden demon recapture with tarot who took home? I think three trophies so way to go tarot tarot model maker who was a the plinth man As many know him. He's like if you've got a winning entry, it's probably on a tarot plinth But he had a great time and he also by the by had one of my favorite pieces I talked to him some there when he was Turned in and the night afterward. It was a really really great piece. I don't know if you saw it Tom But it's like the plane exploding. He has like this this background the faded the curve Yeah, it's meant to like create that image that the plane is really far away and they're like bailing out a little goblins I love the force perspective. I love the use the goblins Really really creative bees and as I love I love seeing this stuff Like I love when people take those like big creative swings and then to see it actually get awarded this year was really wonderful So very happy about that All right. Anyways, that's enough about golden demon check out called a paints episode Andy and Henry and the gang are all there Matt and tarot and everybody and yeah, check it out. All right, cool With that Tom Let's uh, let's switch over to some hobby time Obviously, I have not had a ton of time to work being at adept con from you know Like thought literally before the last show until Sunday night. What about you? You weren't at adept con. You were also traveling. I know last week, but what what you're working on? Yeah, I Am we have an event coming up here in Lexington in a couple weeks and I have models that I need to paint for that Like not not a couple like I'm still like 18 models away. Okay, and not like 18 small models like 18 40 mil models, right? And so I'm playing ketchup, you know, but it wouldn't be it wouldn't be life You know, I was doing commissions for a while and then I like I knew when I got back from my trip Like I had to transition to this in order to get it done for the event. So I'm working on that and then I'll Pivot back to To the commission and then I I have a surprise project that I was not planning on doing that I'm going to be doing now. Okay, and so I I'm not gonna detail that yet, but I Friend reach out and Send me a gift and so I'm going to lean into doing that project that's associated with that as my next big arm. So nice Yeah, so fec's been fun But I may be pivoting pretty hard Just because we're at a new addition and doesn't matter how bad the rules are right now We don't know what that's going to be in the new addition, right for stuff could be anything could be a boat Could be a boat and so I'm just gonna I'm gonna paint something that's interesting to me Even if the rules might be terrible on the current edition because it can't be like that forever, right? Well, we're gonna do a future show on that actually. How do you hobby? Getting getting your hobby ready for 4.0. We're gonna do a future show on that Yeah, so you can't but oh, I think there's some tips and tricks you can go for I think there is a way That's what we're gonna work, but we're gonna see we're gonna see we'll get there. We'll get there. Okay, cool Okay Cool for my hobby time I did get some work done though. I haven't been doing nothing I'll just say that first of all you can see back here. There you go that's the new signature series five and six paints from Flamie on and Rogue hobbies from Louise So very excited to try out the new pro krill paints the new city the new Siggie series are out If you were looking to pick them up I think you can there's a link down below where you can use it By the way, if you haven't hit like yet or subscribed or done all those things Hey, you should do that do all those fun things that make dings. It's great Okay, so But I'm excited to play with these there's also another set of paints here and underneath it This is the I'll actually show them and hold on So many paints. Okay. There's also these which are the Adam paints the smart paints Sure from Big Child These were Ruben Martinez helped develop these Ruben Martinez. Did you see the allarial that one in AOS large Tom? Nope, she's gorgeous. Check her out. Really beautiful piece Ruben's an incredible artist Got to sit with him for a while and just paint and hang out so that was a lot of fun But these are some paints that he helped develop with Big Child and ammo by mig So that's where those come from. So I'm excited to give those a try Excited to give my new Pro krill paints a try flame on I love that he did like the entire set just of his non metallic gold since that's what he's known for And I love that that rogue hobbies is just like it's just like the most intense Color ever. Yeah, just like boom punch you with saturated colors. These are gonna be really exciting to paint with So, yeah, man, I've got a lot of Like over the last six months like I've just fallen in love with program. Yeah. Yeah, like it's like it has moved to my favorite paint I think It's just it's so funny because it started with you giving me that Okay, I'll give it a try and I remember the first time I busted out this ball I was like why hello that purple I told you man. That's that's what that's what we did It took a long time to get that purple right Anyways, but I've also been working on my night. So we're up to the Body of the night now. So there is where he is so far We're doing a bunch of little Deckles and freehand and stuff like that. I don't know if you can really see it But there's like the little nergal fly symbol there and we've got the little skulls on his Inside and you know text and stuff and things like that. I'm looking on one of the shoulder pads right now I'm trying not to do too much freehand and stuff on this guy Because I don't want the freehand to actually be the main story because I'm gonna rust and chip and stuff The living bejesus out of the sky. So I want to leave lots of room for that to like that story to be told So I'm trying to restrain myself where I can but you know how it is I just can't help feel I can't help it be like well, let's put some more stuff on there Let's fill up some more space. Why not you do that very well Yeah, it's a thing but you know, I'm working on this night and he's really like taking a long time because this is a very big night and Like I certainly hope this thing like this is certainly a competition vehicle I'm working on right and it makes me sad because he'll never go to he'll never go to Golden Demon He's like immediately dequeued no matter how well I paint him. Okay begin to the wrong color scheme Yeah, because he doesn't match to any existing night house and I'm using actual like nergal symbols on a night and Like no nights have their own evil fallen houses. They don't they don't have they're not like just nergal nights And it's like a 30k night. So it's like it's a lower nightmare, but it's what I want to paint. So who cares Anyways Yeah, so but I'm having a lot of fun with it. Okay, cool I hope you're all out there are also working and hobbying while we're sitting here rambling and rambling on But let's get even a tight That's fine. Let's get to the real action Tom. Let's get to it the real action AOS for Hopes our hopes our dreams our desires all those things Okay, let's get rid of a Braxia here Celebrate the new edition of Warhammer Age of Sigmar at the mortal realms reforges wait We want this article first here we go. There we go. Sorry. We'll start with this article Okay, I'm just gonna let the trailer play here. I'm gonna mute it, but I'm gonna let it play So Tom What do you hope overall Like what are your what are your high-level things based on what you've read so far? Yeah, it's a great question. I mean I think for me like the biggest thing is I need an addition that simple enough that I can sit down with my kids and play that I can that we can have a fun afternoon game with a random army and Something that I can also So Has a low skill floor Right But a very high skill ceiling that I can also then go and play in a Right and get to and get to To do all the things right and so I We know that tactics are coming back and battle tactics are coming back in some sense, but I hope that There's more restraint and control on those in the new edition So one thing I already hated. I know is gonna be in the new edition I wish it wasn't but hopefully that there's gonna be some restraint that's shown there I'm hopeful for that at least. Okay I Hope there's dice involved. I like to be in a game sure They haven't said anything about dice yet in the article. I'm sure that there will be a dice I don't think we're spoiling anything. I think we're I think we can say with full confidence This will still remain a dice game. I mean it could be the debt game for all we know partial debt game It's like flipping up the for activations or something Pull you know going old battle masters or out. No, um, I I Like the trajectory that we're seeing with with US ours the universal special rules. Yep, as long as they're restrained which they said they're going to be whatever that mean That's something that I can certainly get behind I'm interested in the color coding and to see if it's gonna be like a panellope of like a skittles on a Card right or on a page or if it's something that's going to be usable So that's interesting to me. So that moves it more towards like what we've seen with games like Underworlds and stuff like that, right like there's a lot of that like visual design They haven't done a lot of in this game in AOS that like they have done that same type of like intentional visual design like the UX, you know Cultivation or the UX development In other games like Underworlds and so I'm excited to see them bring that into AOS Okay, I Have to avoid getting stuck into this this trailer as it was playing just because I love watching Skaven Tom I can't help myself, but that's I know I get it. No, I get it I mean the number one thing I'm obviously most excited for is for new Skaven You know, we got there folks mission accomplished unfurl the banner I I don't care about Skaven at all I'm just saying get excited homie. We just brought our our entire city up into the park Okay, and then and other places too like we're here. That's it. That's well I mean, that's worth talking about that like that. That was a real big surprise for me Sure, like they are changing the face of the mortal realms in a big way Yeah, they're going back to Akshi Yeah, they're not going somewhere else. They're not going to ogoo or anything like that It's like no, we're gonna go live in Akshi somewhere That was surprising. Like I did not anticipate that. Yeah, so You know, we're not gonna watch an 18 minute video. That's for sure. I just wanted to see the trailer. So I Mean, obviously what we'll eventually see with the models is basically just like we saw with 10 That'll be those guys that were in the trailer, right? So everything I saw there Which is exciting. My hopes for it are that, you know, they've Is that we do get something I think you nailed it exactly that is easy to play They said a word in an article today. We'll get to today or yesterday. I don't know whenever whenever That I was immediately excited about which is modular. Okay. Oh I'm gonna jump on something else. I said today that was like that set like waves of joy that I know Needed to be there. Okay They killed Battleshaw Oh, sure. Yeah, and I was like Not that I like hate Battleshaw, but either like it doesn't matter at all. It's it matters everything Just sending it from the game is absolutely the best type of thing we could do. Yes Like it was because it was always like a okay, I've lost this math diro Like inverse Thacko equation, right? Like and it was just not And for most our mini armies, it never came into play and for some armies it was literally crippling Yeah, and so I just like seeing that I was like Ooh, I like that. Mm-hmm. Sure. Like I'm glad that they that they leaned into that as well. Agreed. Agreed but the modularity has me excited Tom because I'm hoping what that means is that we're fully building on like the battle pack type of thing that you and I have been talking about a lot and Having ways that we can like Play the game and like that we can play the game the way we want. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah Like if that's what it allows that I'm here for it 100% like that that makes me very excited talking in those terms, okay Because I think that the game just got too complex. That's that's the reality of the thing So if we're using this as an opportunity to strip things down simplify things all that kind of stuff And then but but you know still have a lot of rich choice points being made Which it seems like we're trying to move the choice points into what's happening in the game They mentioned a lot more, you know being more reactive right building on the reactivity of it Right. Great. Those are like in-game choice points not You know garbo rules things. So speaking of that They mentioned the combat range change Right. Yeah, like it's just a three inch range, right? Did you catch it in the the Uh in the thing today, it's not just that it's also Objective capture. Yeah that objective captures a 40 mil Thing on the table with a three inch Thing around it. So you're talking about smaller objectives, right? Yeah smaller. Yeah Like that you're using that same three inch measurement, right to to figure out what your objective holders are. Yeah Yep, absolutely. Uh, no anders. We have not yet discussed wounds becoming health Um, but you know, that's fine. Okay Cool. I wonder if they'll move to something simple as like If you you know like talking about like units or models counting as like multiple You know, like we we were seeing that attack later on Um Sure I mean, I would imagine that it'll end up being something like what 40k does where it's like You just simply have a Like what 40k does is your models just have like an objective capture thing. It's what they like count as you know Um, I imagine it'll just be that or some version of that something close to that Because like it's pretty straightforward and simple and then they don't have to keep writing rules into the core rules, right? It can just be on the world. I was I was just wondering if they would even simplify it more and be wounds on worship Oh, I I don't know So like heroes are five some some models are one some models are two maybe they could go that direction Yeah, I don't know. Maybe Maybe that just feels like it would get way too swingy. I don't know like that with all like all monsters are suddenly becoming sons of bad It feels like that would be too out of control like Because you would need a horn to even stop any like No, you just stop them from getting on the objective. Like you bought if it's only a three inch Objective you body them out. Well, it's a three inch radius off of the right, but that's what I'm saying Which is not difficult to like a three you're talking about a total of six inches Like a 20 model. There's a 40 mil. There's a 40 mil round in the center of that But sure sure sure like okay, so now we're talking about like a Eight inch radius objective like you could body that out her name is me either Yeah, um, you could body that out with a block of 20 or 40 goblin, right? Like that's not I don't I don't think that's Like that just feels like it's gonna end up being too much math. I don't know I don't know maybe like but it would simplify it right if because it's already a number you print it on every single Sure, I just feel like the the problem with that tom is it's bad design Because then you are necessarily tying one stat to another that doesn't need to be tied together Okay, but you're but you're also not introducing something that's there It doesn't matter like I'd rather have the number be separate because then I as the designer have some ability to move it around Like that's what they ended like I said that I'm going off the 40k example, right? And yeah, and you know that's worked pretty well as far as objective capture goes So 40k has its own Other interesting issues, but you know, there you go Okay Okay, um, all right So, yeah, scaven blight coming up Did you notice that you catch this tom in the initial article at the same time? The great horn rat has struck a deal with archeon himself and ascended to his rightful place As the full fifth member of the chaos pantheon Heck, yeah, no we're changing the actual chaos gods It's not just a big four anymore. Number five is finally officially in that's pretty exciting. That's actually cool That's like a actually a big change in the sort of macro view of the lore Uh, yeah, that's new. I wonder how I wonder what happened in okay If that hasn't happened yet or if that is you know, like well, they don't have scaven So this you know, it doesn't doesn't work that way So it raises all kinds of questions, right? Like if these are if this is going to continue a contiguous universe That's one of the questions. It's not It's very much not It's just it's own It's like, uh, you know on different realities. It's all cool. We understand multiverses now. We we've all got that We get it right Um But I'm I'm stoked like this this art is really cool here, by the way Did you catch the fact that um The hammers have held an hammer the hammers, right of sigmar are not the literal poster boys Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely That the hallowed knights have been thrust forward. Yep. It's a better paint scheme They finally realize the dudes that are in silver are way better paint scheme. I Completely agree. I mean it's like mine is a variant of that mine has always been a very Because it is a better paint scheme. Yeah, like it just looks better on the model. Yeah. Yeah Uh, so yeah, here's the part of the article where they talk about the core rules being, you know The being basically reforged. It's funny. Um, okay Yeah, here you go on top of all that there are modular rules plenty more opportunities for reactivity in your opponent's turn Being an updated system of command points and abilities and a ton of tweaks and refinements Uh, so yeah and also saying yes, the double turn is still there I love that they're actually just calling it the double turn. They're like no no look enough of this enough of this like Mincing around calling it priority role and stuff like that. We know what you're talking about. It's the double turn It's what it is. Okay. Let's just stop. Let's own it. Yeah Okay Um, so yeah, there you go But like in the newest article if we're gonna talk about the double turn one of the things that they highlight Is that from a scoring standpoint, it sounds like you don't get battle tactic points if you take the double It sounds like there's some kind of impact to it. Yes, if you take the double like it like you are limited on your score If you take the double. Yes It sounds like a direct scoring impact to it. Yeah Yeah, it sounds like basically, um Like if you take the double you only take the double if you know, you're win Sure, or you think we can win, right? I think you can win by bodying them off the table. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, uh So that leads us to the next discussion tom. Here we go rebuilding the core rules means quite a lot has changed in every faction In this new edition has had its entire set of war scrolls and army rules updated and reworked Each faction in the new edition will receive a free downloadable faction pack at launch This is where tom this is the thing that was the thing you were talking about earlier We had an offline conversation This is where they actually use the the rules and explain that that all of this is free Including battle trait sub factions enhancements spell doors and war scrolls for every unit Okay So so we're getting free rules for everything we for all of our armies at launch or at our on launch or Closely after they they kind of like mince that a little bit around it today I would think they just release them all at once release the pdf. So what do you got to do hit publish? How hard can this be? The newest article was uh, it was not as clear on it as this one. That's for sure. Yeah um And so The you know, they said they'll have more details on what war scrolls look like, but let's talk about the indexing I mean, this is the great indexing We can jump over here to this article while we have this sub discussion. Let's let's go down this rabbit hole Uh, after nearly 10 years in service No rules for war on rager seamar receiving their first ground up rewrite. Okay Every single war scroll is changing Blah blah blah ministers can now fight in melee if they're within a three inch combat range of opponents Which is good Speeding up pylon is important. That was one of the two places where this game wastes a lot of time I will also say tom that this removes one of the biggest garbage like skill testing things Which was like experience players knew how to be super janky With their units to put them in goofball positions To maximize their attacks whereas most normal players did not do that. Okay This just removes that that's gone now. I mean does it like it's everything within three inches sure Um, but like there will be some worlds probably where it'll they'll be janky like It's much less much much much much less because most models you'll just be fighting with like the whole unit It's three inches. It's quite a lot. Right. It's quite a lot. I agree. I agree. Yeah, it's great You know playing scaven as it is now like you're playing with an army that your big units You almost always have three entries and so it's just like okay, everybody fights Right. Yeah So at any rate, uh Let's talk about indexing they said universal specials are in and there is a manageable amount making them easy to recall That boy this word is doing a lot of heavy lifting I'm going to set a number tom. Are you ready? Here's my number and less than 20 less than 20 less than 20 If there is less than 20, then these things are fine and I accept them and they're good If there is more than 20, they're bad and I'm literally going to drive that hard line down What if there's less than 20, but they're matryoshka dolls and they're stacked at that then there's not less than 20 Yeah Yes Uh, like as long as it's less than 20, we're fine That is an ideal number. That is a that is a that is a manageable number That's like your first strike vigilance trample lifelink, you know, etc. Etc right paste and so on right Okay, um And You know like I think that um like I think that my personal take on it is They could be really good if it means we're standardized and these are the obvious things that need to be in there Okay, like tom if you were going to picture a usr in the game What would be your first pick like what's your first pick for a sort of universal special rule? Let's let's say it's a combat oriented thing, right? Just to Sure Deadly deadly strikes. Okay, uh six sixes auto sixes to hit auto wound Like what night on f Yep. Yeah, sure, right and you use it for poison attacks. You use it for Killer stuff you use it for enchanted weapons. You use it for whatever Yep Great, perfect deadly strikes done. Sure. Absolutely send it to the printer. Yep. Um You know so cool good. Okay, great. Yeah Uh, we have three flexes always strikes first Okay now um Let's talk about the indexing. How do you feel about the indexing? Let's opine on that for a moment We didn't finish that article. We're not going to we're talking about indexing here I want to talk about indexing for a moment Since that's what we're this is the indexing article. Okay there. They're they're all getting it there. I scroll down Everything you can do in the game is now an ability moving fighting shooting casting spells to unique actions found in your war scrolls These have a clear sequencing a declare step and an effect step as their timing is written out color coded and uses symbols Making it incredibly easy to understand at a glance which phase you can perform each action and what it does Tom we got the stack. We got there, buddy. We got the stack. We did we did Like it's it was stunning to me that were excuse me that we um That we like There like I saw that and I was like, oh we're going here, huh? Like first and last out like Let's do this like with sequencing. I don't know. I just Um Yeah Yeah This has this has the opportunity to go off the deep end All with reactive stuff. Okay Depending on like depending on how this is written Depending on how they write abilities in the future Like I'm gonna stay I'm gonna plant my flag here. I'm excited about it but This is a potential like this is my yellow flag warning. This is a potential Messy messy thing as we move forward. Sure and it may create some vicious gotchas again as we move forward Sure Yeah, yeah, I mean we're we're introducing counter spell in some way into the game, right? So that's always a risk Right. I mean it's that's we'll have to see what the reaction reactive nature of these things look like, right? Yeah, yeah, but I like the clear timing and stuff like that. So that's good. Okay I will again pause our index discussion to read this next thing. Yes, mike I'm going to discuss it the modular nature of the new rule set is something we'll explain more about in due course But essentially the core rules are supported by a series of more advanced plug-and-play additions. Okay Like what I'm hearing here. This is good. This is what I've been wanting for the game forever This is what I want. This is what I'm talking about with the battle pack thing This is what we've been screaming for on this show for a long time It's perfectly possible and quite satisfying to play without magic, for instance Uh, and then so new battle packs and genitals handbooks can slot in the same way So that tells me magic is one of the modular things we can remove, right? Obviously Um, my guess is there will be many more systems that I either like or don't like that are that we can Slot in or remove which is great. Yeah To me like that raises questions. Sure because like how do they do balance? Right, if magic isn't like in their point calculation Like if you remove a modular system sure Um, like it inherently like so is magic then untethered from units? No, I'm sure the points are probably tuned to the standard like matched play Battle pack which probably has some set assumption of modules in it, right? Okay. Yeah And so like if you remove some of those Yes, things get wonky Right, like you certainly you like like you may be overpaying for some things or whatever But it's probably tuned to that level because that's where you would set the points Right, right now. I agree with that so then but I don't know how that's functionally going to change anything because Then what that means is that you can't use points if you're going to be tinkering with the core assumptions of the Of the thing because the points aren't actually going to accurately be a measure of anything Not necessarily not necessarily that's too that's too far Okay, it means that in certain cases you will be overpaying for stuff depending on what modules you remove That's what it means directly So like for example If you're if you decide to go without magic like let's say we're playing without this magic module Okay, piece of advice don't pay for the wizard's rules Right, but what if the wizards have other essential ability? They've been Well, then they must still be worth it if you still wanted to take them, but you'll be slightly overpaying for them Okay, like you just told me but what if it's still good enough that I want to take it That's the argument you just made No, what I was what I was saying is is that like GW historically Has had a tendency to write in rules now If there are only universal special rules and no non-universal special rules Like if if we're only in a world of universal special rules, which cannot be the case It just can't be mathematically if because if they're going to stay manageable like that just can't be the case You have like a thousand worse rules. They're not all just going to use the same, you know variant 20 Maybe maybe that's what I'm saying. Maybe between that and numbers on Maybe they're maybe they're trying to design a game Can that can That can do all of those things that can fit within 20 universal worse rules And then have a bunch of variable numbers on hit wound save Like health all of the you know, like maybe they they are trying to accomplish But if there are unique rules on worse rules Yeah, the challenge is going to be there will always be offerings in there That like the whole rest of the thing is shit, but because of those one or two rules you want that thing Because There could always be good utility on the rules. Yes, sure It's a unique role in the army and what i'm concerned about right Is what happens with points assumptions in the midst of that and like And at the end of the day like I love that the tech is in place But I don't know how functional that tech will be to add and like to remove particularly It depends what the rest of the modules are we're using magic here as the example But that's like hugely impactful to the design of worse rules Right, it is right now. Maybe it won't be and that's the other thing i'm saying We don't know we don't know actually how heavy this stuff is or it's not yeah Yeah This sounds terrible, but I can imagine a world where like you are considered a general Piloting the army and the magic is at your command not at the command of any of the units on the table Yeah, let me give you an easier example here tom. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah Let's say something like grand strats are a module like the use of grand strategy is a module Yeah, right you turn that off. No points. Nothing changes as far as points because you're just not picking or using that thing Okay Okay Right, that's the kind of stuff that could be in play here Right, yeah Yeah, maybe not everything is points dependent you're picking like Potentially the heaviest module like they used a silly example here They should have just talked more about this in this article But nonetheless like there's lots of things that could be modules outside the core rules, right? Yeah, um, yeah, like I don't know man Uh endless spells That could be a module. Sure. Okay Right whether or not you're using those Right and a tournament can turn that on or off Again, yeah, if it turns off It doesn't matter Is what i'm asking. I don't know what toos will do man. That's for them to decide how the rules come out They'll have the ability to though and they'll be licensed to this gives people who are playing the game and are running the game License to do the thing. I mean to be clear technically you always could have done this stuff, right? You always could have mutually agreed with your your your With your opponent not to to do something right to take a no magic army or to just not use magic or whatever whatever, right? That was always within our power You the the the real modules were in you all along Um, but what this does is it gives license? Right to players or toos to do this thing But that's my point like turning off something like at like these smaller modules like endless bells or grand strats or something like that Right that has that doesn't affect the points at all That's just literally turning off complicated aspects of the game, right? Correct. Yeah, no, I agree with that like you could turn off like turn off the terrain Whatever the things are called sure whatever. Yeah, yeah, exactly like uh mystical terrain nonsense Like that's that's the thing most of us have a community have as a community have already decided to turn off So just be a question of like what's here? What's in the core rules? What are these modules actually mean? Right. Yeah, yeah, and like again. Yeah, I mean exactly as as ardent one said like how lots of people skip the special terrain Yeah, I mean like That's already a thing people are are already sort of using this modularity concept with because most people just side not to do it Right. Yeah, so we're already comfortable. Yeah So you're saying battle tactics can go. That's what I just heard you say Is that they can just be removed potentially jettisoned right out of the rule? I mean tom we can only hope I mean my god, please if they're going to stay as we know they are Uh, let's let's make them a module. Okay, let's do it like absolutely Let's the t of the ability just to to yeet them into the sun. Yeah, exactly. Sure before before the new edition even launches Sure. Yeah, but it does raise the question of things and as andre's are things like faction terrain Or even endless spells like I'm thinking about endless spells particularly like faction endless spells Let's say they somebody said no fact no endless spells Or where does that leave some armies that really like build around some of their endless spells or zinge or or or right? I mean one has to imagine that they don't you build around them in that particular list And that hopefully the designers of the game were smart enough to make armies army paths that don't require you to have the endless spells Right now that not all necessarily true, but that would be the hope right? That's what you can do if you're redesigning everything from the ground up, right? You can know that you're going to turn those things off and then design accordingly right Yeah, so Okay, tom Manzac just asked do we think points will be updated paid by everything's going to get updated Oh, yes from the ground from the ground up being that every tome is getting yeeted into the ash bin of history like yeah I am I'll tell you one of my hopes right now as far as points go That brings me to a hope an aos 4.0 hope. Oh are scaling down the size armies? Yeah, I hope points get like way higher like make everything way more expensive Like I would have so many base cost of liberators five of them for 200 points. Let's go Okay, let's do this Let's do this. I I like I was finishing like the bill and priming of some models for my fec army yesterday and like I was just like Like I was like clawing through boxes of fec stuff either built or partially built and I was like, okay here's 60 of the crypt guard guys and uh, here's you know, here's another 21 of the crypt horrors and just just Waiting my way through and if they did that I would have like 30,000 points of each army. I see no issues Look fourth and fifth edition tome. We're a very happy time. Okay, and listen cw kreiner I hear you say leave your horde alone. You'll still have a horde your horde is just going to be readjusted You're 20 dudes. That's going to be a horde man. Okay, like that's a huge number of dudes Maybe you've got one unit in the army. It's like 40 or something. That's crazy Holy crap. That's a massive horde. You know a chaos army Right in fifth edition Was like 20 models total Okay, that was the army. That was like 2,000 points. Okay a daemonet was 36 points tome All right, just let's just let that sink into your mind Yeah, 10 of them is 360 points. That's right, baby. That's right. Okay. I mean they were initiative six Let's not okay. They were pretty good but um but like I like having shrinking down the size of armies. I know this is like my my uh My hope for why this would happen like I really would like to see like let me defend this in a non hyperbolic fashion Because I really do think we need to like generally up the the base points things are paying like things do need to get more expensive Is that we've spent a lot of time slowly like Flushing everything down the toilet To where like the race to the bottom has happened if you remember tom at the start of third edition Everything went up in points and the justification was we don't pay for battalions anymore. Remember that was a thing we did in second edition And they were like everything went up in points, but you don't pay for battalions anymore right but You know now all this but but now it'll it'll roughly work out the same it does not work out the same now You get way too much crap on the table way too much crap okay and 10 units my 12 units the the The issue with that is I'm sure we all love having lots of toys But tom here's the question Okay, let me ask because I see a bunch of people being like no I want all my toys You don't take my toys from me. I do. I see this great. So I'm gonna ask you all some real hard questions one okay One and yes, I'm aware of the the freaking like I get it everybody I understand what a business is and how they want to sell models. Okay, like thank you for this lesson in business all right But now Yeah, exactly the scaven player like I'm happy to have less scaven now. Here's the number one question Here's my question stomp. I'm gonna put this to everybody Do you want faster games? Because lowering the model count is the number one way you get to faster games Having more models having more dice to roll more things to move around More abilities to forget more abilities to remember more things to use equals longer games can I Can I Throw out a hot take here. I'm not done I'm not done. Okay. Go ahead. That's fine Higher points is equals shorter more manageable time games. You want the game to play in under three hours? Okay, this is number one road to that path All right, number two Do you want new players to actually join this hobby and play it and build their armies? Or are you content to let it slowly atrophy and die and for your friends to eventually and for all of us to give in to the heat death of the universe Because the way you build the game is by making getting to a 2000 point army or easier now. It's not the only way you do it There's other ways you need better on ramps. That's where hopefully that spearhead, which we'll talk about later comes in Okay, I'm not saying it needs to go and be radically different. We don't need to go back to fifth edition okay But like we also shouldn't be at where we are now. There's got to be a middle ground in the middle and Having it where there's an easy path that isn't like I want to play this army, but I've got to paint 200 models Like outside of a couple hoard armies that just shouldn't be the requirement Right, that's number two okay Number three is don't you want to say you've painted a bigger army? Look at what you'll be able to claim all of a sudden overnight You can say I painted another 2000 points of your army. What a win What an incredible win for you. How many points did you have before 2200? How many you got now 3000? What a win you did such good work way way to go you Okay, all right. Yeah, there's my my hot take is actually what ravney Suggested in the chat, which is this Um, I suspect that you're probably right And I actually suspect that the spearheads are either half of the full army Or They are a third of a form. Okay, that's that's my suspicion um, which would suggest that oftentimes you have anywhere between 12 and 20 models Being a half to a third of your form Yeah, yeah hyperbole aside. I would like to see points increased by somewhere in the 25 to 30 range. That's like that's joking aside That's where I want to see it. Yeah Yeah, I would not be I would not be surprised if in this reset Spearhead is half of your army. And so the idea is this you start with a spearhead For your for whatever force you want and then you buy a couple boxes Two to three boxes more of models and you have a form Yeah, that's you doubt the most I suspect that that's where they were going is that the idea of spearheads Is the core of what you need to start with and then you add on to it Yeah, I mean I will see I I hope that's the case I I hope that that works out to like yeah about a third of your army. I think that would be a nice number I don't I don't want this to be true, but I suspect it probably will be it will probably The spearheads will probably be again Half to a third of your form Yeah Now as a model company like the the the counter argument that every everybody in the chat is launching against me here Is but if they make armies huge people buy more models, right? It's like first of all that isn't actually how things work like that's not actually how you do A business case, okay Because like there's many complicated factors you put into a business case You can't just assume everybody suddenly buys to the maximum amount of the army When you increase the barrier of entry you have to then lower the number of people who uptake in the thing Like there's lots of different components that go into factoring business cases As somebody who like has to do this on the regular um and the You know so like So they can easily have a path that is actually more profitable By reducing the overall number of models in an army Okay, because the actual path to selling more models and high profitability Is one spearhead being really good and fun. Let's just start that that's number one They want this to be successful and they want to sell models make spearhead really good Because the reason magic like magic sells those pre-con commander decks like gangbusters Okay Yeah, because they're easy people can play them very quick and simple, right? And like if spearhead is really good and fun and compelling and interesting Then you open up the ability not just for people to go deep like you described tom Where they buy the spearhead and then build on it to go deep in the army But if that game mode is itself compelling, then you open up the ability for people to go wide Which by the way the next version of the hatchet Storm ringer launch like what the next aos one like when this cycle ends The one what they're doing for 40k right now. They like the new addition 40k one is all So every month you just get a new combat control box And so for aos Assuming they follow suit which they have every time What that means is that the next time that hatchet magazine stuff launches every month you would just get a new Spearhead box So you get a bunch of different armies that can all play against each other Sure Yeah, the opening of the ability of people to go broad is hugely profitable for them Right because if spearheads fun if it's easy to collect And it's easier for people to start new armies They end up being going wide they end up buying more spearheads right and that that alone is worth more than a single box to them right So like you want to have the ability for people to go wide and deep In into a particular into your game. Okay now As to the skirmish game thing I want to answer a couple comments here My argument is that aos is a war game not a skirmish game It already feels semi skirmish and now you want it to be even more skirmish like I mean, okay I don't know man This game can have units of like 40 and 60 dudes and I'm not saying that that stops I don't think of a game that where I have a single unit that has 40 or 60 people as being a skirmish game Like a skirmish game is 12 models All right now certainly sons of badminton has four models or whatever Right, so you can go that direction and that's fine. I like that it has I like that aos has that wide variability Right where you can play Where you can have a hundred skeletons in an army or you can have Four models like that's cool. I don't want that to go away Right, I just don't want people to be getting everything like armies should be smaller As I said in the 25 to 30 range, right hyperbole aside jokes aside That's the that's the real number. It just makes it more achievable And are we can we talk about spearhead now? Or is this our spearhead come I want to talk about that's fine. We can go back and talk about spearhead We'll go back to this article. We still haven't really talked about indexing. Okay, that's fine No, let's we can finish through the the rest of this article. Okay, so We got hooked up on this army size thing um Right and so, you know, there you go. Um The like if spearhead is fun if they make the game actually playable to thousand points Then you really actually You create the ability for people to go Broad and deep and that's my point and that's actually how you make a lot of money You do not make money I mean like it's hilarious to me that that people would think like the way that gw can make money Is by making the rules difficult to actually making the rules such that it becomes a high barrier of entry to finishing an army That's not how you make money. Okay, gw makes money doing two things Having an easily accessible game and making awesome models That's it folks That's where they make money when they make banger new kits They make more money because they sell the crap out of those kits That's how they make money. It's a very simple line goes up right Yeah, so like That's it Okay All right, cool. Um Hey, by the way If I haven't made you incredibly angry yet hit like or maybe if I have Hit like if you want to keep with larger armies. There you go or hit like if you want smaller armies I don't know just hit like it's fun and cool and I appreciate it. I appreciate you putting up with our nonsense I want to talk about this indexing tom because I want your opinion on it Like we haven't talked about it all yet and this feels like the most this feels like the most controversial aspect of the whole thing I didn't think army size is going to be the one we really got deep on Okay So what do you think I'm looking for your opinion talk to me tom share thoughts I mean if I get all my work scrolls And I get all my faction rules And it's playable and I don't have to pay money for that Then I'm fine Okay, which is what the previous article said Which is what the previous article said. It's not what the current said, but they were talking physical product and the way they use the language of indexing was Um of the new article what I mean what I'll say is this so I think that it's fine It makes me sad Because of the complete discontinuity with the prior books, but I understand the need for it Um, so that's where I'm at. I think Um, yeah Sure sure. Yeah, I mean, it'll like it'll be fine. Um, I I worry about the FOMO that they're going to create Um with the end like with the index stuff because it seems like they're tying war scroll cards into that with tokens and other stuff And I'm a little bit concerned about Like does that mean that if you don't buy it now It's not going to be available for Two to three years Like your thing Because if that's the case then it like you're you may miss out if it Like if it sells out and gw has a terrible reprinting So like on one hand It's going to create this really unfortunate incentive structure where everybody's going to have to rush out to buy all the armies That they're possibly going to want to play in the next two to three years If they want the physical thing, I mean, obviously if they want the physical thing. Yeah, yeah, but But but then Inevitably if you're rolling the dice on That you love that you have all the models for so you go buy the indexes for those four things inevitably in the role of that dice One or two of those Are going to launch in the not too far distant future and you don't know which like you don't know if that's going to be your army or not And so it may create this it may create the feel bad, right? of You buy the thing and then two months later or suddenly the book It's the first book to release and so you didn't actually need to buy that thing because it's been updated again And so now you have to fork out another You know in 60 days And the problem is because we don't have a release schedule We have no way to actually actually evaluate what we should be buying and what we should Sure. Now, that's not to say when it comes out. We won't have a roadmap. They could have a roadmap But I understand maybe maybe it would be great if they gave us the first year of release is just the No, right. Um But I mean the other half of it is this like for folks like myself like i'm sitting on a solid 10 plus armies Do I do I fork out 400 dollars in indexes? Okay You know, I mean depending on how much they cost you who knows probably you're probably not wrong. Who knows Right like we're talking four to probably 500 In indexes for all these war scrolls. Yeah cards. Yep that I just so just for the opportunity to maybe play my Yes, I have the pd. I can get the pds and download them everything but Like it's that other piece of it, right? And so I just it's For for players who are deeply invested in the game It's a real hard like it's a dam if you do damage beyond situation Okay, all right, let's do a good side bad side. Let's do a pros and cons list. Okay, let's chart this out. Okay So to me the like let's let's are upsides downsides risks, you know opportunities. However, you want to think about it, right? There's lots of different variants on this To me the obvious risks of the indexing. Let's talk about the first Let's talk about the feel bads the hurts the pains here, right Uh, and can I can I add one go for it? like Because of the new color coding system What that says to me is that having the actual war scroll cards is going to be really important to have in front of you Well, I mean you can because it print the pages because they're moving Well, they're moving towards this visual design thing is what I'm saying So actually having like they're doing this new user experience visual design piece With with the color coding And so the format of how those things are actually portrayed it seems to be way more important Than it previously was and so you probably will want to have the cards in front I don't know. Maybe I mean depends what the pdfs look like if I can just print out the pdfs like I've got a color printer Like I don't know maybe but I don't know if the pdfs are going to be in like printable Format or not, right? Why wouldn't they be it's a pdf How would they be not Because when I've seen them do other similar pdfs, they're not in printer friendly fashion where like you can just like cut out The card and have it be appropriately sized Like that's what I would be concerned about. All right. I mean, I guess we'll see I don't know I've I've been I print a lot of pdfs. I don't see any issues, but okay Sure, I guess it could be an issue if they don't do the proper layout and design work So whoever's in charge of the in design for the pdfs don't screw this up, right? Okay, let's yes, exactly. Let's let's let's let's lay down. Yeah, exactly. Thank you evan Evan's there. He said my printer will work. That's right. Okay odd minis. Let's lay this down What is going to be actually releasing with the indexes? What have they told us? Here's what we know All existing books gone all points all existing books gone blown away Thanos snap Okay indeed at or near release the factions will get indexes These will be pdfs. The pdfs will contain All your stuff. It was back here in this other article. This is uh, let's go back to the actual thing. Here we go a free Downloadable faction pack each pack will contain all the rules needed to play battle traits sub factions enhancements Spell lures and war scrolls for every unit. Okay, so That's there. That's free. You don't have to pay anything for it. Okay Now at the same time in this article today, they also said Uh, where's the actual text? Here we go. You'll be able to buy Physical faction packs from the outset which will contain your army rule sub factions enhancements spell lures and war scroll cards. Okay So Same product. It's just the free version and the print version Right now. Could there be extra like tokens or something in the print version? I don't know maybe Right. I don't know could they look slightly different? And Is the assumption is it's some type of bound? um bound Bound pdf book sure with war scroll cards And and potentially to it's like token potential like the tokens or like whatever or cards for your Enhancements and items and all that. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah, like that seems like that's what we're talking about here Okay, like it doesn't seem like what they're we're talking about. It's just packs of war scroll cards No, I would assume it's like a little small Booklet or something like right like maybe with like a little sheet on the back for for your token sheet That could be what's different, right? I don't know. Okay, so You've got free version all your rules all rules all free pdf and you have All printed version which costs money right for obvious reasons Okay, right Now, so that's that's your choice when this launches, right? I mean, I know which one I'm picking I'll pick at the free one. Yeah Yeah, dude I'm not spending money on this. I got a printer. It's cheap Okay Like pretty pretty straightforward Now The let's do let's yeah, let's break out the swat. Okay Okay To me let's talk about where the pain is first If you are and this I saw a ton of this on facebook, of course I was looking around before the show at reaction So I decided to venture into the cesspool of facebook and actually read people's responses delightful absolutely um and you know If you brought the the the most common comment by far Was uh, well, I just bought fec that sucks Or whatever right something about that and like yeah, man Yeah, man You know fec obviously got pushed way back Uh, you know all that stuff got pushed back because of the schedule last year or whatever And that really sucks Because the fec people went out they got their book they got their cool collector's box or whatever whatever it was and then blam Just you get like a couple months with it, right? That sucks You know, like there's no two ways about that. It's just it's not great Right Um, so like that is a danger now. Let's talk about that or that is a pain point. I should say not a danger That's a pain point, right Let's talk about the actual risks with this thing Okay The risks with this thing is If the index is not well play tested and balanced Then this is a nightmare Right because you have these like horrible gross imbalances and it's very hard to adjust Well, like so like let's say there are imbalances. Let's imagine a world where that happens. Sure. So are we at Are we fa queuing? All everything that gets launched Within two weeks of release four weeks Six weeks Because it's the it's the entire game. Sure, right? Yeah, I mean, assuming we still handle I'll have our fa que cycle and Battle swirl cycle and stuff like that. I don't think that would change Okay, um, and then it then if there is gross imbalances it then invalidate Just made for the for anybody that's bought into the index Like with the war scroll cards Like it like the reason why this is important Is because it's not just a single release, which is what we normally have We normally have a single book that comes out And then all the scrutiny of the communities on that book right And we may like we may have corrections and and adjustments to war scrolls or whatever two to three weeks afterwards for that book But we're launching 20 books Simultaneously sure with war scroll cards and product support for those 20 books simultaneous Yep Um, and so what's the odds that everything gets caught in the first two weeks? Well, you're assuming the people aren't looking at it now or whatever that they're not working in advance I didn't do the development like the the question is again. I don't know what the odds are. I don't know Yeah, what I know is that that's the risk profile right Like as with the release of any product if you allow escapes i.e Bugs or imbalance in our case bugs or imbalances right like horribly Misadjusted rules or imbalances, right? Then you got to go back and fix them then it's Rough right it's rough I the part of a reason why I would stick to the free PDFs is because I imagine no matter how well balanced it is There's going to be changes That's simply the reality of the thing, right Yeah, like I know they have a formal developer now I'm sure that formal developer has worked very hard on this edition. That's great. They actually have that person in the role I know matt rose who was all over the video is an incredibly talented Designer the head of you know the aos studio. He's incredibly talented And I know he has really pushed them to institute better processes Like this is all stuff the 40k studio didn't have When they released their index at 10th That's why I don't buy the analogy like I know a lot of people say well in 40k 10th all this stuff was bad hence the sweet bad no Okay, that's like, you know Like that's like comparing the some if political event in two different countries It's two different systems of government. They're going to be different, right? okay Right like anybody that has any exposure to like Product lines, right? You have two different product managers, right? Any different Teams and and all of that. So like these are not the same products. It's not the same people handling the same product like It's it's it really is apples and oranges. Absolutely. Now that doesn't mean it's going to be great. I'm not giving them a pass, right? Right. I am saying it has to be judged on its own merits. Correct. And I'm saying that like one Being questionable highly questionable as the 40k indexing and launch was does not immediately Equal a os's will be trash. Okay. Yeah. It means right like it means That this team this design team, which is a different product manager and has a different process and well instituted Qa and stuff like that and has gone through a different a completely different process of development because of what matt has put in place Okay Has a chance to be different How different will it be? I don't know. Could it still be a train a train wreck? Yeah, of course. I don't know man It's still it's still gained workshop, right? but But I don't but I don't automatically assume the negative like you can't go into this assuming the negative It's a good team They they've worked hard on this like I'm going to give them at least the benefit of the doubt That's that's what I'll give them now if it's If it turns out to be horribly off Then We're gonna say that too Yeah, yeah Say this tenth didn't release with all that. They don't have a formal developer on their team They didn't have a they didn't have a lot of the things I'm describing in their processes They just didn't like I know what their development design teams look like Like they didn't have those things again. I'm not saying that equals. It's good. I'm just saying it doesn't equal It's bad. That's the logical fallacy Yeah, but it's a risk. It's a huge risk. We got to be Clear about that, right? Now if the index is good That's an opportunity because it's a great time. It's cool. You've got everybody out. Everybody's got rules Everybody's got new rules. Everybody's on roughly even footing. So again, if you the reward if you have a good index is that You have a bunch of like relatively fun Ways to play like everybody has a fun time, right within sort of balance Okay, oh no problem. Say this all good um the But it is like it is a big endeavor It's a lot of armies 24 25 armies, whatever we're dealing with here, right? Yeah, it's not a small amount of work Assumingly this has been in development for about two years probably, right? So You know, we'll see one remote. Yeah, I imagine that's usually the lead up time on stuff like this, right? Especially big addition changes like this where they're actually rewriting everything um And I'll take and I'll take that assistant ref. I'll take pretty decent like if we get pretty decent pretty decent's pretty good um, but we'll see I think the The other advantage here that I actually do really like tom Is that for the first time ever we have a chance to redefine what one of the things the indexes will do for sure Okay Is it gives the team the opportunity to redefine? These war scrolls and their roles Yeah, yeah, okay Like this is a thing that we often have had a lot of uh Anchor bias on in like addition to addition They could go in and they could start tinkering with rules Like play they mentioned something about in the video like lining stuff up and redoing health, right? So that with the wounds effectively, right and kind of re reorienting that stuff Seeing more like variants amongst units, you know things like that um And so I Like this gives them a chance to do what I have been pushing for what I know tom you've been pushing for For basically ever Which is can we please have units get put in the books that have a more Clear role like this is the mobile hammer or the anti infantry hammer or whatever, right? This is my monster killer hammer This is my anti charge You know anvil that can take the charge and break it for for then so then I can beta charge or whatever right So Like that is with this offer. They have a golden opportunity here to do that That is my real hope Is that they actually capitalize on that? uh Agreed Agreed because we just haven't had the chance to do that in forever Yeah, I mean hopefully we will like for the cyborg You you cut out there completely you'll have to say you turn to the side And then your mic stopped picking up what you were saying Say it again It'll be never again For the likes of the cyborg Right like that's like that's what this allows Abominations like that that don't have an appropriate floor On points because of the the content the content of the war scroll itself, right? We can fix all that We can wave, you know, like it is a blank canvas We can wave the wand and recreate that it also means it also means That whatever army compositions you have now Sorry folks. Oh sure like if you like if you've bought things like with something in mine Some set of combinations some set of synergy That doesn't exist. That's not a thing Because who knows if you're dealing in like I and like what I'm most interested in actually like assuming all this rebalancing is happening. Sure I'm interested to see how and which armies transform Okay Because keep going. I'm interested. I have not forgotten The great winnowing Of the fire slayers Okay When they went from a 120 model To 40 to 16 maybe sure because of the all moving to two wounds. Yeah, yeah, they're all moved to two wounds points jumped up on fires And the entire army got reinvented Because of a fundamental war scroll right and I know I mean, let's be honest baller move in a os 4 put them back to one wound each They're a little they're a little guys make them watch my one health make them one health each Let's do this. Let's go maybe maybe but what I'm saying is is that we will see Some armies completely reinvented sure like in the reimagining Like this is part of the world we live in. Yeah Yeah, hell Spider riders could be amazing. Well, this will hold on that leads me to my next question, tom. Here we go Okay, what gets retired What gets retired? I mean like when we're rebalancing and re-rolling this gives them like if they're rewriting everything from the ground up I have to believe some stuff doesn't make the cut right like we're like we have to at least cut some more scrolls here, right? I don't know if any I like I don't know if an army is gonna go or not I'll like you can you can launch your guess on that But like I have to believe we're gonna retire some more scrolls from some factions, right? We just got some bloated factions So what let so like give me some more scrolls that you think will no longer see the lighted Oh, I don't know man pick anybody and like the big I have more than 70 scroll armies Right Like I'll be honest with the scaven re-sculpt it would shock me if everything from scaven made the jump Like that's an easy. That's an easy statement Okay, like there's so many goofball weapon teams and stuff like that. Are those all coming? Are those all coming across the line? I don't know man Relatedly Relatedly I would be surprised if we're getting a new re-sculpt of Of the core stormcast Um, I would be surprised if like uh, non Like in the re-sculpt we have like differentiated war scrolls between judicators with bows and crossbows Okay, I would suspect that we're going to get a liberator Judy judicator kit that can cut either way if they if they even have judicators, right? Sure. Um, sure I mean I because we I think there's some people who are there's some people in a chat who are like you're crazy. They'd never cut Uh stormcast but like I don't know man. I hope they cut stormcast is my honest answer Like there's too many stories about army And they have old like that if they're redoing the core stuff I could see paladins going like the old school paladins with star soul maces sure like that entire line Right, which was always problematic from the beginning if if visually it doesn't fit with the army because they're fat boys now Like I could imagine them having a new type of paladin That is kind of filling that role in the new kit but without all the build up. Sure Sure. Um, like that's a very likely Um, I hate to say it, but I could see the death of Beastman Wow, wow Like any particular reason why I don't it seems like a fairly popular army because it's a it's an army that needs an entire Like in order like it is as old as many of the skavens gulfs Okay, that's what you're talking about. Right and and and it and it's not going to have this And you have the old stuff right which it now has a home for So it can be retired appropriately to that likewise. I don't think my spiders are long for this one To be clear like I think in orcs and goblins I think we could see the retiring of the spider rider and arachnarch gets That would not surprise me because again the visual design language The force goblins is very different than the design language of your um your knight goblins and your Your squigs Right and justice we already have trolls and trolls have a home there We have squigs and we have knight goblins like We often have like a tripartite portions of armies Spiders are ancillary. They just are to the larger o and g or the larger You know moon clan Like you could have like I just I could see them. I could see those kits Being retired is what I would say. I hate to see them go, but I could see it happen What do you think about this maxi in the chat said S2d could easily see some of the war cry warbands cut They tend to be pinch points in balancey splintered vang and iron golems back in second, right? Do you think there's any chance of something like that? No, probably not. I don't know. I uh, maybe maybe Maybe maybe not. I think uh I think more than the war cry. I think the underworlds warbands Are likely to be cut. Oh, sure. Yeah, I could see that. Um, like many of your like we've already seen this Um, gery not gery and uh the the one The flayed duke or whatever the second the fire slayer one, uh, not fire. Sorry the fec Underworlds warband. I think it was the first one that they launched Or uh, I think it was it was in like the second or third expansion. Um, that never that's not in the new book It's just gone. It literally got written out of existence Um for underworlds. So I would suspect that that's our trajectory. Okay Um that for underworlds we are Not likely to see them continuing moving forward Okay, so Uh, I know that's a bold claim, but I think that like that's probably what will happen. Um I think that we're gonna lose our bone splitters Like we've known that but I think they're gone. I mean, that's been a thing. We've been saying for a while that that that That really feels like something that's gonna happen. I mean, who knows but boy Boy, does it feel like that's the case like we have we have our, uh, brutal Um We have our brutal what connan and our connan, but brutal. Yeah, but we have our connan, but brutal, right? Like we have the two sides of Yeah working Gorking work up to tom freeze. Am I froze? Let's see What happened? Yeah, there you are. You're back Okay, um, so like I could see like bones. Let us don't fit into that paradigm like for the me the army mirror Like the the lore there Um, I could see that going um We just got largely a nice refresh of slaves to darkness So I don't see any big cuts there other than possibly the monsters Okay, um Like I like some of the aging monster kits or whatever Mutolith vortex piece beautiful kit but um I mean it like I could see something like that going um the uh What's the big uh half half uh machine half demon Um the 40k guy who snuck in Yes, the 40k guy who snuck in a long time sure. Um With the big claw in the the short range gun um Like I could see that going like I could see just a calling Right of these older kits that don't have like a clear home in aos Um Yes, w husk the soul grinder. That is correct. That's what we're referencing. Um for cities of sigmar. It makes me want um If we see any major changes we might not But because of the non-human stuff still feels kind of patched in Like I it just makes me wonder like is something happening is something going to happen I don't know. I feel like with cities They got to keep those other elements in there or it or it undermines the whole point of the thing Like they they they they show up in the stories regularly enough like they're part of it. So you know, I don't know Maybe maybe Like I heard it says wait. This is the soul grinder in aos. Yeah, buddy. Yeah, buddy. It is Yeah, huh? Um What else uh Yeah, I mean I think that um, I think a lot of that I think that we'll see regiment to renown carry In and that will likely replace our our vision of allies in the new world. Sure. Yeah, yeah, totally And and with that like here's the deal like this is going to be sacrilege, but I can imagine a world where uh daughters of kane regiments and um Corridor overlords regiments and fire slayer regiments and lumeneth regiments all replace Your dwarves and elves in cities like they have special like inclusion rules. Sure the regiments, right? Like that doesn't seem like that much of a reach and they could you could get at the same narrative thing By utilizing those regiments and just killing those aspects of those lines. Sure. That wouldn't surprise me Uh real quick here ben staffords and said also I hope the soul grinder gets a new model just to spite you new gorgeous sculpt just because Uh, yeah, man, I hope so too. That'd be amazing because I actually I love the soul grinder I have multiple of them, but The problem with the soul grinder isn't always has been the sculpt Because it's required to be on a hundred and sixty mil round because of its dumb wide stance And so you could have six archeons Like yeah, like that's what we're talking about. That is just too big of a base for a, you know, eight or ten inch move walking model Right, it just gets caught up on everything. So it's just useless fundamentally because of its size So if they like re-sculpted it and it was on like just a standard chariot base in some way Or something like that that would be amazing and it could be a useful model, right? So there you go. Yeah So those are all things I I could see trimming and Uh and tightening the books um With and and streamlining what the offerings are like that none of those changes that I just trotted out would surprise me Um, because again, we're in a reimagining. We're in a reimagining of what it means to be aos now. Yep. Um and so to to get rid of like The the hangarons, right? They've given it a decade Right, like they've given us a decade of Of dispossessed model I um, I think stuff like that though still be stays in the world because I think it is I think there is some of those things can still have life. That that's my statement. That's what it comes down to But we'll see maybe yeah, maybe I but what I'm saying is is that if they're wanting to lean into the of at all Right, they may want to lean into those lines that they actually made models for in the last 10 years Sure Uh, oh here's a good question. Ramium says do you do you think we'll see a big decrease in the number of weapon profiles per war scroll? Uh, Ramium, let me say this. I hope so There's a hope for aos 4.0 simplify weapon profiles wherever you can like yes, please Yes, please like obviously if you got like a guy on a mount you got to have like The guy or gal and the mount Okay, so like I get it the pony kicks are different than than than person with sword like I'm accepting of that but like yeah, let's go for it any other thing just shrink it down absolutely We don't need uh front hoes back kick and horse might right like that like that's no we don't need that um Claws and fangs is the right answer for most mounts. Um, I Related to that though. I could see Uh, I like yeah, there's a lot of units out there that just need to be thinned down sure 100% Like And this is the opportunity right like this is not this is the opportunity To do that to unify the rules to tighten the war scroll offerings To balance the the battlefield roles 100% right? um Like we could live in a world where like and I don't know that people are actually thinking through the consequences Are you right? But like we could realistically Live in a world where like this idea of like reinforcing units is nonsensitive Sure sure or like or like battle line unit main Like if some lorem tech sure sure like like we don't know what army construction looks like right? It could be completely different. I could have none of the same rules Yeah, so like the the whole concept of all of that could be gone. Yeah 100% right so like all of that all of that is uh fair game And and so I would want to I just be curious to see what what design elements have been learned from other Wings of gw. Yeah, right and i'm like yes, uh 40k But also overall like what have they picked up on that now? The problem is is that the design would have had to have happened a long time ago Yeah, and so like things that we like now or don't like in the systems They wouldn't have had time to change it. Sure Yeah, yes, exactly assistant ref they said streamlined army creation or something So who knows what that means? Yeah, I agree like that's what I'm saying We don't we don't know anything about what it means yet. So like Like here's a here's a weird could mean anything There's a high likelihood That just all faction terrain is gone. I guess I don't know. Why do you say? Well because we know that the plastic on those on those models What those are china Productions those aren't gw local sure productions sure and some of them haven't been in sock for eight months Like have you tried to get a loon shrine recently? I understand. I know. Yeah. Yeah. No, you're not right. You're not wrong Like it's a real problem And so that may have just pointed towards like we're not going to another bout of that because we're moving away from that or That's a modular. That's a module of the strong point So here's an easy way that they could twist the new rule set to say or whatever that. What are what's the new rules that are in the What are they called? um, not strongholds, but uh The point you're talking about what was in the new is is it okay? So it is strong. Yeah, um, I had the right one um, all Imagine this all current faction terrain Become strong points that you can actually build with and that's a modular system, right? So if you have those things now Great, it's just another version of a strong point That could be included when you're building your Or when you're or when you're assembling your table top or how or if you're going to use Let me say though if you're using the strong points module you can include any of these Uh, any of these frame pieces which would include all of their faction terrain And so you don't need those things actively in order to play the game. I could see them. Here's what I'll say I could see them changing the way these things are used making a modular making it Costs something making it be some kind of like thing You have to factor into your list or make some decisions like I could see them making a decision point around it That's really what's at base here, right if we get down to the base of this What we're talking about is is there a decision point like right now? There's no decision point around your faction right if you have this army you have this piece of track, right? So right could it become a A decision point sure like I don't that seems possible. I don't see it going away Because as many people in the chat have just pointed out. They just revealed a brand new piece of faction terrain for s2d What is it s2d or is it all factions? No, it's s2d. It's the chaos thing They specifically call it a slaves to darkness terrain piece Okay, well the sense that I got was that it was Like it was a like a universal chaos piece that could be taken That corrupts things around it. I didn't get the sense that it was s2d only Yeah, I I guess we'll find out but like might I I believe they actually say that but either way Right, it's it's like And so they're by the way You telling me that it's in the dawn bringer crusade or whatever Means nothing to me as its continuity into fourth edition given that they just launched my fec book Again, you're not wrong. That's all it's a completely fair point. That's completely fair point Okay, and by the way Let me just say it doesn't change the fact that like yes, it could be s2d right now and in third edition But it could just be as another strong point option build in fourth edition. Sure And so the continuity maintains there Let's uh, let's talk spearhead, tom Okay Now we're all I am like legitimately excited about this. Yes 100% Okay, so what is let's lay down the groundwork first for everybody so they're all on the same page spearhead is going to be basically the It's a it's a game mode, right? Uh That you can play and you use the exact contents of your spearhead or what basically what your vanguard box is now Use the contents of that box against Somebody else, right? It says one on one small scale uh The spearhead is a fun exquisitely balanced or exquisitely balanced. Oh boy. I hope that's true Uh version otherwise that that's a real way that's gonna bite you Um version of where i'm ready to sigmar introduce new game to the beginners Of course. Yeah, really takes advantage of the new modular core rules to introduce a unique tactical spin The design studio absolutely love it and it's become one of the most popular games to play in lunch hours and after work around the office Okay, cool All right Cool, so that's fine. Let's talk about spearhead. Why are you excited tom? um well one I love that like We know what spearhead is Like we like they So initially I was like, oh I need to So we know we we had three of them. They've launched. They've released three spearhead boxes But in the image Of what spearhead is and in the description of the video It like it seems to correspond to the graphic they posted a hashtag new aos Which a lot of the boxes are actually just simply the vanguard boxes. Yeah Yeah So like it's either the vanguard boxes or the um So like if you want to like if you want to know what the contents of spearhead seem to be Go look at the graphic on the first announcement Uh, where like of the new edition where they had the like hope that's what i'm on that's what i have up right now Yeah, that's what this is like that image itself is Like a wonderful picture to get an idea of what we're talking about Okay um, I love it because it's a wonderful opportunity for my kids and I to um To pick up and play a bunch of different armies and paint a bunch of tight boxes and to have like cohesive Rules if it truly is balanced like they're saying it Again, I'm assuming let's again. Let's take their word for it right now Again facts not in evidence, right? Well, we'll evaluate that as a community But sure they're saying they worked really hard to balance all these boxes against each other. Okay I'll I'll believe you for now. I'll get I'll give you the benefit of the doubt This is going to be a trust but verify situation, but all right sure Yeah, um, so let's like so yeah, I just what I'll say is this I I like the size of it Like in almost every instance. It's four units oftentimes one hero and the other units Um, anywhere between uh, if you're gonna switch to that mic tom, you cannot touch your keyboard Because that's what you are doing You are on your other mic and the problem is you're the way your gain or your Soundflora set you'll cut out every so often when you're talking you can switch to this mic I'm okay with it because you saw the comment and I thank you for trying to stop it But if you touch that thing and make that scratchy noise, I'm gonna reach this computer and strangle you Continue your hands off your desk I've been noticing the the comments Couple shows that I've been on where people of me touching it so by the way It's still happened like your mic will still probably cut even with this mic It has nothing to do with the mic It has to do with your audio recording settings in your system like in your sound settings continue cool Excellent just what I like to hear. Um So yeah, I mean what I'll say is this I think I have a I also had a lot of hope for a thousand point games and I had a lot of hope for What was the one thing it was called previously for the thousand point meeting engagements? Meeting engagements or whatever like we we've done this song and dance before and we still haven't mastered it And so we'll see if we get there Um, I think it's neat that they are basically playing on a war cry board Like you have my attention right like Like it would be fast and furious and deadly if that's indeed the like the meeting engagement space Yeah, if we're playing on a war cry board, that's gonna be that is an interesting time Yeah, yeah, right because that's what this is. That's what this is like that is uh Like I see that storm strike chariot and I was like I see you there And being able to run this entire table. Um, yeah, I'm interested I'm interested to see what they're they end up doing with it. Um, and I'm excited uh for it And it makes me want to start painting Like a bunch of blueprint like or making sure going through the armies in the picture making sure that I have Yeah, do I have everything already in my army to just play the yeah Because you don't need to buy the box if you just have the contents of the box You're ready to go right like you have your spearhead force. Absolutely Um, bruce steward said how do these vanguard boxes translate to points like in path to glory p2g Was also supposed to be balanced. What would make this more balanced versus p2g? Well, first of all path to glory is way more complicated than a than the base game Like it just adds a bunch of extra stuff path to glory is not actually a good introduction mode to the game It's it has no direct correlation into it It's a fun narrative thing for people who want to do that thing But it adds a ton of rules because narrative is actually more complicated than match play It's not a good way to introduce people to the game That'd be like introducing people to magic using the plane chase deck or something insane like that like no That's not it's not how you play right um Because uh What this will what will mean like they said in one of the other things like spearhead rules are separate, right? Like they mentioned that So Like this could have other balancing mechanics in it the actual points in the box don't necessarily matter Because the war scrolls for spearhead could be slightly different the choices you make for spearhead could be different like deployment deployment could be different in the one interview the one guy talked about Like the spearheads themselves tell a story, right? And they use the stormcast example that like yes in your five round game yin draca doesn't show up until turn three Ever like you don't deploy yin draca on the table. She turns up and turn three right and so She is herself a catch-up mechanic who comes in late and has to like do a bunch of work. Yeah She has to do a bunch of work and like and that's part of the design. That's part of the design of the box itself And so the points may not matter like it doesn't matter Points because her points only half count because she's only there for half the game, right? Right, so there could be all sorts of deployment stuff like that all all kinds of wackiness, right? Where like certain units don't show up or or whatever, right? So I mean I'm very excited about this mode of the game If it's if it's actually a good introduction to how to play os if it like the way to do this That would be good and what I hope they do and they kind of made mention of this a little bit here in the in the description, right? Yeah, um like if this To go back to the modularity thing right if If this basically if spearhead like uses the core Let's say whatever the core rules are right and it has ways to like Introduce people to the modules in some kind of in some kind of way if there's some kind of ramp to like You know, here's how these things work in simple fashion. So you can kind of get what they are right Then then this will be then this is successful as an on ramp Right, that's what I hope is there now That has nothing to do with whether or not the game is fun on its own Right because it could be perfectly fun and balanced and good on its own But not it'd be a good on ramp into the full game, right? That's that's war cry or something right like war cry is a perfectly fun game. I like playing. I like war cry I think it's a well-designed game. It teaches you nothing about playing a os Right and pat and pat the glory. What's interesting is that they made it very clear that pat the glory was going to be about leveling Or developing your characters in your unit For campaign play, right? And so it'll be like so pat the glory itself has been redesigned for this new Like for this new addition um, and so I'm interested. I'm interested to see How they differentiate these things and how these How these things fit in. Yeah, sure. So duggy fresh. That's that's assuming fact's not an evidence my dog He said the best part about this mode. No no dark no darn giants. Uh, I don't know man I wouldn't say we don't know that's the case Yeah, you may have like a gate breaker verse verse an entire uh An entire thing like he's like i'm a house bring it boys Because again, you're on like a like a war cry board. Sure. He's just gonna occupy his quadrant Yeah, I guess we'll I guess we'll figure it out. Um Lord Zev said my worry Is time used to design spearhead will be time not spent on the main game And the main game will suffer due to time spent on a niche game mode. Maybe depends how different it is I mean, certainly that is a risk. You're not wrong um, well ideally Like the neat thing here is that it seems like they have Full control of all the levers and knobs here Right, and so they have a very controlled environment for spearhead Right because it does not see seem like you're like you can't there's no variability Of like subbing in and out units and stuff like and so They like they can calculate mathematically. What is the output of the entire box? a single unit Like that is that is that is an environment that they can control And so they can actually fine tune that quite well in fact And once they finish that once they have the standards right their gold their their development standard Of this is what we want performance to be if they tested every single box against them Right of performance and equality and and all that. Yeah. Yeah They could create an evergreen environment that if every new box that they launch Just against that one standard and you don't have to worry about new rules and battle tones. Yeah, it's effectively automated testing Right, it's the non software world version of automated testing. You still have to back it up. Yes. Yeah, it gives you a baseline And then once they have that baseline Like every spearhead box is just being ground against that same baseline. Sure. And so they never have to re go rebalance anything Right because it's all being actually it has the same control On it. Um, and so in that sense, it doesn't matter what books are get released or what what erot is happen Or, you know, like as long as as long as it is in its own kind of like one situation It could be fairly tightly balanced They have a let me say it this way they have a better chance of actually balancing that in the real game Yeah, sure. They do absolutely because no that's because they can control all the variables because they can control all the variables. Yes, absolutely That is correct. Yeah, um so Uh, do you think gw will do a good job keeping the rules accessible for spearhead? I fear they will force you to get the tone as well. I don't know man I don't know like I hope they just have free rules for spearhead forever Is it would be they said it? Well, they said it that it's in the index Yeah, they said the spearhead indexes will initially be there the question is like when the book comes out Does that replace it? Do you still have free rules for spearhead that kind of thing? I don't know I don't know I mean, I would expect that we'll see the rules for the spearhead in the box in the spearhead box So if you buy the box new box drops if you buy the box you get the rules Yeah, I mean if they're smart, they'll keep the rule like first of all they're smart They'd make as much of the rules free as possible But if they're but like at minimum they should definitely have the new player Learning mode rules free all the time forever and ever and ever buy the box get the rules free Right, it should not be buy the box and buy this battle tone for a thing that you may or may not need right like at it like that's just That's just baseline. So one would hope they make the not dumb choice there. Yeah, right? Yeah And I would expect first spearhead. I suspect it's going to be a fully supported Fully supported environment because They're like printing money and it's a great If it's designed correctly, it'll be a great intro to the game itself. Yeah The which is what they've been lacking Um, I mean, I will say that uh, so who had asked that? Um Average Joe asked but will the will they use the current boxes or relaunch the boxes for each army? We have three spearhead boxes Right that are available that are marketed as spearhead In this image They also show all of the vanguard boxes that we play and they say specifically right up here That it's going to be the vanguard boxes each faction spearhead and vanguard boxes So assumingly no, maybe they'll get like a rebranded box or something where they relabel them But like I am led to believe that these will just be the contents the current vanguard boxes or what we're going to see as the spearheads Right and in the video when they were like showing examples spearheads or whatever They had like the the thing it was the storm cast Against knurkel and it was the new the storm cast spearhead with the ingross And then it was the knurkel vanguard like because we don't have a knurkel spearhead, but it was the knurkel vanguard Which is what's what the current knurkel one So my gut is that what we have is vanguard. They were pre They were like seeding spearhead into the into the play environment without actually like naming it as a new like format like Oh, that's it. Yeah, gareth said it's possible that some of the regiments are renowned become spearheads too Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, I didn't thought about that, but sure that makes sense. Yeah absolutely Yeah, uh, okay and rice versa Like you could also say it's possible that some of the regiments Are some of the the spearhead or vanguard become regiments of renown Sure So like if you want to bring in like that would be your ally. The your ally. Yeah Yeah, and and if that's the case by the way Um, it would make more sense that the vanguard boxes be approximately a quarter of your arm rather than a third or a half So just like if as you as we're thinking three pieces could end up falling out If that's the case, it wouldn't surprise me if that the spearhead stuff ends up being a quarter of your arm And if that is the allotment of regiments And so if you want to bring in syrup on this is what it means to bring the syrup Okay, bring in a carnivore or you bring sorus Yeah, I mean to me the reason this is exciting is because it's the number one thing we've asked for for the past three years that's it Like this has been The number one thing we've we've just banged the gavel on over and over and over and over and over again is that throughout all of third edition the This game has been way too hard to get into way too complicated an on ramp way too high of a barrier of entry And so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the down this because this is certainly at least thematically conceptually going the right direction Right Uh, so I guess we'll I guess we'll see all right. Hey if you haven't hit like yet You should do that hit like hit subscribe do all those fun things that make dings You'll be at least like I don't know probably 20% cooler if I had to guess it would be at least 20% cooler Uh, so, you know give it a shot see if it works. Um, all right So tom this is most of the information we have thus far, right? Okay, we know that there's some more in in this article. They said there's uh Our uh, the nuance of the rules begin tomorrow when we look at what modularity actually means I saw somebody say I just can't picture what modularity would mean. Well, we don't have to wait long You know, we'll keep touching on this stuff as it as it drips out Um, choose a side. This is so funny. Have you have you clicked this? Do you know what this does if you click it? Tom If you click the choose a side it takes you to the little email sign up Yeah for sign up for the newsletter. I do know that I do that because I clicked the swarm gas one and I was like I don't want to Yeah, yeah, I I was like, oh, I thought I was gonna get to a cool page that was going to tell me about scaven Right, like doesn't that feel like what that should do? You click baby trick tricky little tricky little jerks I wanted to choose the scaven side. I don't want your I don't want to sign up your newsletter Give us your data. Yeah, exactly Uh, oh you got me. There's probably some ab testing going on here Oh, how many people click which side? Yeah, yeah, choosing a side on scaven and just trying to evaluate numbers and launches and all sure Quick note here in the end to talk about then we'll then we'll do kind of our wrap up Uh The mortal realms reforged war hammer world and us open 2024 So, uh, the mortal realms reforged is one event running concurrently a warhammer world in noddingham uk And the dallas texas leg of the us open series. So this is basically Basically the 16th through the 19th of may Obviously, it's only the 18th the 19th of may at warhammer world the us open is more days um because in the uk they just uh You know, it's shorter. They're not they're not working as hard over there. Okay So This is the first chance anywhere in the world to try out the smart changes Wrought by the warhammer studio. Why why this word? That's just so weird and these people love writing adjectives and Most importantly attendees will be able to play hand a hands-on demo of the game of the new edition And they'll also find about more about the exciting new spearhead format Learn about the new rules see all the gorgeous new miniatures. Oh, well glad somebody gets to see them And learn how to paint scaven and stormcast eternals of the hallowed knights uh, so That what that means tom is that by that point in may basically we'll have all the rules, right? Like maybe not every single obviously not all the the um So here's action packs or whatever, but we will have the full rules by that point. Here's the next question Do we get a july release like we've seen previous for addition? Okay, does it drop in june? I think it's a june release You think so? Yeah, uh end issue of june, but june. Yeah, probably back two weeks from the sort of traditional july 4th That would be my guess again total complete like reach up in the sky and grab a thing, right? But yeah, sure Um So let's heard let's let's see. Also this piece of art rules. Whoever did this. This is this absolutely rules Um, that's fantastic. Look at that. Look at that goofball. Look at that little guy back there How could you not love the scaven? Come on man. They got little cute rats Uh, all right. So tom let's leave this on our final hopes Uh and dreams like like what haven't we touched on? What else do you want to mention based on what we've seen so far? Okay, let's leave it on this awesome storm cast guy here With his with his bird with his bird dog dragon thing I hope that they Blow us out of the water With the the viable variant of how to play the game Okay, unpack that. What do you mean? Like I hope that the glimpse that we've gotten from the Is actually like a glimpse of the actual Been doing large For four editions so that when it launches suddenly have like a um, you know a four player multi-variant Multi-player variant sure that's viable in an intro version of the game That's viable in a campaign version. Uh, that's viable in a match play version That's viable like suddenly we have four different games that we can play with all these models That are each their own offering rather than Are we playing a thousand points 1500 points or 2000 of match play? Yeah, yeah, no, I I support that completely. I agree multiplayer teams format all this kind of stuff campaign modes these kinds of things should be in there Factored in from the beginning like just ways of people more ways for people to experience to get into the game to play it my hope is that spearhead heralds a Way that the game actually like the game plays well at the spearhead level at a thousand points at 1500 points and at 2000 points Like I hope we actually took that into account and have that be true and functional um, so I hope that's the case um, I hope that the reactive system makes the game interesting and not uh Not burdensome or or like confusing where every time somebody is like going Going like wait, uh, how do I wear a reaction something? Yeah, I have a reaction exactly Uh, I'm gonna put this on the stack Any responses responses? Okay, it resolves. Okay, you know like I I just rich by the way is going to be a nightmare for chess clocks Like if if there's a lot of back and forth like in the like in the actual interchange Depends how complicated it is right? Yeah, exactly. It could be a reaction. It could be it could be problematic chess clock. Mm-hmm I that was gonna be my next one duggy fresh. I absolutely you you stole the the the words right out of my mouth Please please guys Please we haven't talked about it. I haven't seen it really mentioned. Maybe it was in one of the interviews And I just passed out from pain in that room but, uh Good terrain rules. How about that? How about some good terrain rules like some actual terrain rules in the game? that like Modular scaling terrain system so like super basic Like next level and then strong points Sure, whatever man like I'll I'll take even the basic which we're failing to hit at this point But yeah, sure. Let's I mean let's reach for the let's shoot for the moon if we miss we'll still be amongst the stars Right like just yeah 100% um Toasty said they mentioned briefly new terrain rules. Okay, good I couldn't remember if that guy I didn't see in the articles when I reread them And I I did not have time to rewatch rewatch every single video obviously Uh for all those but that's good um Oh, no, let me be very clear about the interviews The interviews were good and I'm glad they did them I hated them if you were if you were at adepticon and it and trapped in that room live It was torture to sit there for an hour and 20 minutes and watch all of that back to back without commentary Without the ability to pause it or get up or use the restroom or whatever Which is how you were all watching it at home when you could just like step away from your computer Was laying in my comfortable bed in the dark. Yeah in which case all the interviews were great But all I wanted to see in that room was here's some sweet new models I just wanted to be very clear here. I I am appreciative of the interviews. They are a great background Just don't Just they shouldn't be forcing us in that room full of 5 000 people. It was ridiculous. How many people are in that room Uh, so yes, and I agree Evan. What about the spear? What is what does a braxious spear do? I mean, who knows why does she have horns? Who knows? Is that why that's why it's called spearhead? Yeah, yeah exactly But at any rate those are those are some of my big hopes and then obviously I hope all the scaven models are amazing and you know uh And uh, just incredible like I just I want every scaven. Here's what I want. Tom. Do you do you know what I want? I want to take most of my scaven army And just just yeet it out the out of the house just right in the trash and just be like I don't need these anymore gone If if you do that 10 000 points of scaven I have room in my basement. You can just send them here. I'll find a home for them. I'll let my son play Some games with them. It'll be great. You don't need to throw them away. You don't need to see them incinerated in warp fire It'll be okay. Yeah, I'm gonna burn my army in celebration Not in anger I'm gonna light the old scaven on fire in celebration That's what I'm gonna do in warp fire like do some do some post effects to make it look like green flame Okay. Yeah, exactly. Well, we'll twist. We'll do a little twist here on the old formula Man burns army in celebration. It says he is very excited to have an excuse to pay 10 000 more points of scaven You need to do like phosphorus, you know get some of the right chemicals of the fires Absolutely Yeah, george southerland george. That's like that's not deep. Can I think about that joke all the time? I I know that guy who did that. I like I hung out with that dude So like, you know, it's very funny Not like a lot. I just a queen. So I don't want to be very clear here But like I did go to this guy's store and play some Warhammer with some of his some of his clubmates. I didn't get to play him directly. But yeah anyways Yeah, we send them off we put them in a boat and then we throw warp fire at it, you know, there you go All right, everybody, what are your hopes? What are your dreams? What do you want to see most for a osforth? What's your fears? What's your hopes? Drop them in the comments. Tell me put that down there And I'll be reading all of it. I can't wait And so we'll we'll see That is correct. His name was death. Holy death. Well, it wasn't his real name I don't think that's on his birth certificate, but that was the player's name At any rate, uh, thank you all so much for watching big show today. Thank you all so much Don't forget to hit like subscribe Do all those things. I don't know hit other things that make dings do all that fun stuff If you want to support the show lots of ways you can do it There's affiliate links down below. You can check out these new monument awesome paint signature series five and six for rogue hobbies And flame me on they both look excited You'll see a review of those coming up on the channel sometime in the future once I get a chance to actually get into them and give them some use and There's other stuff down there, of course If you want to pick up a game from uncle adam and I all our games are down there We're finishing up our newest game right now Uh, and so, you know, it'll launch before this does so hey, there you go I've got that going on It's good. It is going to be it's going to be a banger. 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