 Welcome into a special edition of the original gangsters podcast. This is a triple crossover edition with Sit down news and mob talk sit down. I'm talking John Pinesi Dave Schratwizer and Scott Bernstein from the og podcast getting together to Deep dive some breaking news. That's cool. That's really quite surreal With what happened at a Long Island funeral home Just a couple days ago There was a internal dispute in the Bonanno crime family that erupted into a brawl at the funeral of Vito Grimaldi who was an old school Bonanno Soldier and I believe he became a capo before he got demoted and was put on the shelf but this was a Something that's been brewing now for for four or five years and a dispute between the current boss of the Bonanno crime family Michael or alleged Current boss of the Bonanno crime family Mikey knows Mancuso and his former acting boss Josie Camarano and it got violent and It's all over the New York newspapers right now gangland news broke it and then everyone else have had a field day and We're gonna get into it jump into the deep end of the pool Dave's out in Philly. He's taking the temperature out there John Pinesi One of the really the foremost experts on modern-day Mafia activity because he was right in the thick of it until recently when he was a made member of the Lucchese crime family but John knows Josie and Interacted with a lot of Bonanos in his time on the street So, you know, John, why don't you just? Well, what why don't we first? Just break down exactly what happened for let's say 30 seconds and then we'll throw it to to mr. Pinesi and mr. Schratwizer, so Mikey knows Mancuso goes to prison in the And turns over the family on an acting basis to Joe Camarano at some point I believe around 2017 Joe Camarano Decides to pull the capos and the Bonanno crime family if they want to keep Mikey knows as the boss Mikey knows takes this as a on a front and when he comes out of prison he demotes Josie and Josie was persona non grata and was told not to show up at his own father-in-law's Funeral wake which happened this past weekend Vita Grimaldi Josie is married to Vito's daughter and was sent word by the administration of the Bonanos Mikey knows and his Main lieutenants to not show up at the funeral Josie Disregarded that and then showed up with a group of bikers for protection and when He went to go pay his respects to his father-in-law at in the coffin He was attacked by three made members of the Bonanno crime family including a capo Johnny Mulberry and then the bikers that had been brought to watch his back Stormed into the funeral home and an all-out Melee occurred and at the end of the day according to the reports The the Bonanno soldiers and capo were the ones on the ground Get had gotten the worst of it were bloodied battered and Right now. I guess the balls and Mikey knows Mancuso's court with how he's gonna respond to that There's a lot of people worrying worrying that there will be an uptick in violence and in in response to this John where are we where where do we stand right now? Well, well first? I just want to tell you that Mikey knows not only shelf Josie Joe Camarano Mikey knows shelf John Paul key Zanko Zankochio Who's the Consolidate? He shelf Vito Cormaldi was a captain in the family and he shelf Vito's son Joseph Which was an acting captain? So well, he took out a whole crew We're when you were on the street. What what was Mikey knows his reputation For people that are familiar with the New York mob Mikey knows traces his roots all the way back to the purple gang that the New York purple gang of the late 70s and Was a guy that I think was thought of as future boss material, but this Behavior kind of in some ways is you could argue was unbefitting of a boss. Yeah, well as you know our family and particular in particular Matty Madonna the acting boss of our family disliked Mikey knows and That's all this came to a head when the Bananos Entered the club in the Bronx that day, you know, a lot of people know about that incident So it wasn't there was no love for Mikey knows as far as the locations Dave, what are you hearing on your end in Philly, New Jersey? You taking the pulse of what what the guys are saying around there? Yeah, I talked to a couple guys this morning just about this particular incident and asked if anything like this ever happened in Philly I didn't recall anything like this happening, especially the a beat down in a funeral home By one or both sides there, but guys mentioned two particular things to me Salvi test is funeral and Pat the cat's burritos funeral apparently Nicky Scarfo Who was the boss then of the Bruno? Scarfo crime family ordered everyone to stay away from the funeral and they did That's Generally what everybody's saying that if a boss or anybody else high ranking under boss tells you to stay away from Something you stay away All of them were kind of shocked that something would happen right there at the funeral home Most guys said to me I talked to three different people most guys said to me We probably deal with this afterward or the word would get back to in this case with Salvi test or pat the cat's burrito Word would have got back to Nicky Scarfo senior But we all know you know was a blood thirsty guy and probably would have exacted some type of Retribution for that kind of situation. So it's all about respect in a situation like this. I Saw me kuso's lawyer Firmly denying that he ordered any but anything like this to happen. We should probably put that out there Yeah, we'll throw in a bunch of allegedly ease here To cover that but you know, let's be clear. I just this kind of outrageous. I mean, I'm a New York guy I'm from Long Island. I know what that funeral home is And I got to be honest with you. This is outrageous. It's ridiculous I mean to take something out on a guy that you have a beef with at his own father-in-law's funeral In front of his family and his people. I mean, that's just ridiculous I mean, I don't get it and as far as what what he's gonna do next With the biker group that allegedly put the beat down on the three Made members. What are you gonna do? You're gonna go look for these guys now with a bunch of mob guys And and you're gonna tune these guys up. Are you gonna do something like that? We should get into that later There was some comments from an FBI agent in the piece that Jerry Kepisi wrote that I firmly agree with Let's see what the retribution is if there's any I think that I think that the main points are a The fact that Josie was shelf His father-in-law was shelf and I was mentioning it to Dave earlier And I just want to say that a lot of people throw this word shelf around Like it's insignificant. Let me tell you the significance and I know you guys know but for the people who don't know I'm gonna explain the significance of that word shelf that word shelf means We would kill you but we're not so we're gonna shelf you be lucky that you're alive So a lot of people they think that word is just like a port like they put on pause For being a mobster. You're excommunicated at that point, right? So with that being said being that veto was Deceased was excommunicated as well as you'll see It's no longer Mikey knows his business who goes to veto's funeral or not Specifically his son-in-law, right? Here's a guy that was in that life. And let me just let me just stay for the record My dealings with Joe I call him Joe swan this junior or Josie He was a gentleman 100% a gentleman in that life and so was John Paul King They were two guys that I respected they carried themselves like gentlemen at all times. I every time I dealt with him Respect dripped off of him. That's that's how respectful he was so Knowing his character the guys going to his father-in-law's funeral, right and a lot of people and I think you guys know I Do not in any way glorify this life I kind of strip away that curtain of glorification and show the life for what it really is, right? this story only proves me right because You attack the guy Allegedly, right? They sent a message for these guys and we can't say allegedly because they were there in the funeral parlor and Ordered to attack this guy if he showed up When they attack him his wife is there I believe veto's wife is still alive, which would mean his mother-in-law is there their employer family and friends are there You did this in front of in front of family, which is a normal. That's that's a cause of no show normal You know do things like that and it just it just goes to show you This is where the mob is today this is the mentality of the people in the mob today and what they what they They lowered themselves to be and and people would debate me and say, oh He says that the The loyalty there's no loyalty and there's no honor and there's no respect Well, I want somebody to tell me where's the loyalty where's the honor and where's the respect? of What that incident? represents and it's I gotta say this John, I talk I agree with what you're saying It's so narrow-minded. If in fact he did order this It's you're looking at a beef with somebody Kind of circumventing the funeral of his father-in-law and their family I mean, you're so focused on how pissed off you are at a guy if in fact he did order this You're so pissed off of them that you don't see the ramifications from this You don't see how this makes your family look your crime family look that your guys would show up and Do this if ordered or not ordered if your guys did it same thing here Funeral stuff you go to a family members who that stuff stays outside or you just don't go Right there. You're not taking this out in there and then in my mind Look what you just did to the banana crime family. They're all over the headlines everywhere I mean his story is getting legs all over the place, you know I mean Jerry Kapisi broke the story on his column people are following it I get all that but you just embarrass your entire family here and what are you gonna do about it now? You're left the base now. Well, you will now they have a as they say like now you got egg on your face Yeah, and you're in a position where? is a If you act, you know, you know, you know law enforcement knows who who's behind it, right? And and B if you don't act You know, where's the respect that other families are gonna look at your family for letting your guys You send you a guys to do allegedly, right? But they were there and now They got there asking Can I jump in for a sec? Yeah, I want to show man. You could jump in anytime you want This is like this is like the wwe of mobcast mob pod just for crying. I like jumping some context here Yeah, when you think about where this came from and what family That all this drama is emanating from it's really not surprising. I mean dating back to the 1960s with Joe Bonanno and the banana war the the Bonanno crime family has been dysfunction junction in relation to The other four five families not to say that the Colombos and Lucchese and Genovese and Gambino's haven't had issues But not to the degree That the Bonanno's have so the fact that there's this def this function being Revealed or revealed again to the masses is not necessarily shocking in that respect and It should be noted that Joe C Was is known as little Joe Saunders because of his dad Was the original Joe Saunders who was an under boss I mean very very highly respected organized crime favor not just with within the Bonanno's but across New York City and beyond so you know, Josie was someone that was Brought up in the life knew the life as John saying this was this wasn't a guy that was known as a knuckle-dragger or a miscreant he was he was he was just like his father he was respected and Was was a gentleman in that world? and then a lot of these articles that have been written are alluding to the fact that Mikey knows either is or at least is coming off as Incredibly insecure In his in his leadership role and some of this can be Linked back I think two years ago to his his shelving of porky which Resulted from Mikey knows I think was in prison at the time and At Porky's trial Porky's attorney is making the argument that you can't dub Porky the conciliary because there's been so many reports of so many different conciliaries Within the Bonanno crime family, so you can't take it at you know face value this one report that that porky was In the word coming out of prison was Mikey knows was offended by that because it made him look indecisive As a leader for cycling through so many conciliaries So and so wait, so is the West Side's the Genovese family indecisive But but my point is he Porky gets all I believe porky got off on that case. He did yeah so If anything there should be congratulations sent to him, but instead he's demoted Because of a defense that his attorney used in court So that that kind of I think foreshadowed What what's going on here? Well, he also was very close to Joe C too So like this was an attack on that I don't want to use the word faction but I'm gonna on that faction because they was it there was a split and I remember when Joe had the position and Porky There were certain members of the Bananos that was split with the Anthony Robito Faction there was another faction that was in that same trial with porky Anthony Yeah, so so you had a split in the banana so they were two factions and Obviously porky was with the Joe C faction But just to give a little more background on Joe I Was dealing with Joe through Johnny sideburns and that's how I met Joe and was introduced to him and There was a sit-down going on and Joe at one time showed up at the sit-down and I would never forget we were my family's restaurant in Queens and He like gave me like a little nod so I followed him and we sat outside and he said come on Me and you will sit out here. He says let them hash that out. He says, you know, he didn't want to Be sitting there in his position which he was right, right because it wasn't fair And he wanted somebody to talk to so he got me out there And you know, he was talking about different things and telling me a lot of things and I respected him right from the start at just How we're well versed and how much knowledge he had in that life how he carried himself as a person My captain at the time big John right Castellucci Didn't meet hadn't had not met him yet, right and when he met him He told me he says boy He says, you know, I knew this guy He used to code go to the Holly shots because Joe was at the bikes and so was big John He says I had no idea who he is at all Meanwhile, the guy is an acting boss in a Holly shop. Just know looking around and John would see him Had no idea who Joe was which is the way it's supposed to be right and that's just how Well schooled. He was from his father. That's what kind of guy he was. He was he was a gentleman Definitely made for that life. Definitely made for a boss's position and would never Do what took place here would never do that his older brother Dino is In a is in a biker group. It's not considered a 1% gang This this group that Was at the funeral home and engaged in these fisticuffs are not considered by law enforcement a 1% game So so they are no Hells Angels or a Pagans or the outlaws But Dino who was a year older than Joe, I believe Dino 63 and Joe's 62 is a member of that group who it makes sense that Joe who's also an aficionado Would be it, you know hanging out in Harley shops. Yeah. Yeah, his brother and you know, obviously Are people gonna come out of respect when your father dies to wake absolutely Well, they put on notice that there may be a problem. Absolutely, you know, Joe's not Joe's not a stupid guy either, you know, and he Obviously received some kind of message that he was not permitted to go to this this wake He wasn't gonna he wasn't gonna listen to this message. First of all is he's excommunicated This is his father's way. It's not like he's going to another member's family, you know, another member in the family's Wake, you know what I mean, then they could tell Yeah, in other words now they could tell him listen, you're not you're not welcome here Right, you know, and somebody probably at the door and tell them that if he tried Right, you know or in the parking lot. Hey, dude, you're not welcome here today, right? Joe's been in a life long enough to know Yeah, what it that week, you know, you know, you'll welcome the way you're not, you know what to do That that's what happened in Philly at the two in Philly just that the order came down from the keys car for that No one was to go to those two funerals and guys did not go period and and I told you earlier that Those kind of messages or notices that are sent out and were spread around are one of two things It's either I want everyone to stay away. Well, I want everyone to show up. It goes both ways, you know Those messages for wakes we want like there was certain wakes want to make sure everybody's there and then back to what Scott mentioned this family. Let's not forget what they did Years ago They crude up and bum bum bum rush as the quads as the the kids like to use that work bum rush Our social club and they were very very lucky That certain guys were not in attendance that day because that would have went south quickly you know the they would they had the administration and big John there and I could tell you that many many guys in our family have Spoken badly about big John Castellucci for not You know taking a different kind of stance when they did that in his defense What was he doing? He was kind of he had his administration there our administration there And I guess he was going by their reaction You know what I mean because one thing could set something off in that situation But John give you give the audience some background to that what led to that dispute where you had a banana crew Invade a Lucchese social club and looking for some type of altercation. So The main reason was that there was a conversation that involved Maddie Maddie Madonna and actually I believe one of the Guys that were in the funeral parlor was this Johnny Johnny Joe Jr. Johnny Joe Spurrito Jr. Who? If people don't know who that is at one time his father is a high-ranking member with the bananas at one time This is a guy and I'll use the term kid who actually made himself The underboss of that family went up on a visit came back and told everybody his father made him the underboss of the family and Wind up straightening out which means inducted about 20 something of his friends There was no names that went around. It was a whole big big controversy that went off. They actually wind up shelving him Did Joe see fashion it actually wind up shelving him when it's all came out and Giving us the names of these guys, you know, and now and then he was reinstated. He was actually brought back But supposedly he was the guy who Maddie Madonna Made a statement and said we don't recognize Bosses that are incarcerated Which which is not the smartest statement to make coming from a family whose boss was incarcerated because yeah, oh is Incarcerated so it was a bad statement to me. There was a lot more behind that. There was a lot more behind that I Never went at this before I think I told one of you guys what what had happened is There was a woman of all the times and of all the things that go on in a mob even for myself a Lot of times a woman is behind it So there was a woman behind it who was actually once married to a Lucchese captain a current captain Lucchese fan, right? They're divorced. She started dating Mikey knows Well, Mikey knows what the prison she started dating Michael Melnich, right and That's what the Michael Melnich beating that took place outside of Rao's was over over the woman well a Lucchese associate and I'll say his name Joey cupcakes urgent handle starts dating this woman also. I don't know the time frame was it During the Michael Melnich or after what he starts dating She shows him a letter from Mikey knows Sent the half from from in prison. He sent he sent to this letter and in the letter He's discussing street business, which is a known with the woman This cupcakes allegedly takes this letter and says I let me have this letter. He gives it to Maddie Maddie goes on a campaign to try to get the banana family to take Mikey knows down as the boss as a result of this letter and During this discussion. He makes the statement that we don't recognize this guy That he's incarcerated as a boss and like I said, it was not a great statement to make no as a result of that They take a front to that message and they decide to corrupt During the planning of let's get together and let's go storm the Lucchese Club in the Bronx Anthony Robito who is an old-time or had a position is involved They know Anthony Robito is not going to storm the club Anthony Robito is going to go in there and try and be diplomatic Which they should have did this in another way. They should have set up a meeting with Maddie or Stevie or Joe DiNapoli or somebody a Captain somebody and set up a meeting and had to sit down over this alleged statement and that they felt insulted What they did is Another guy this this Ernie I L who's also involved but look look at the people who are involved in this incident at The funeral parlor you you're gonna hear their names pop up, right? He was one of the instigators He was one of the instigators in this let's go charge the Lucchese Club they knew Yeah, you know what nobody pick up Anthony Robito Anthony Robito was left on a corner waiting to get picked up They never picked them up And I noticed because slide burns Johnny sideburns was very close friends when Anthony Robito Anthony Robito said they were supposed to pick Me up they left me stand them on the corner. Why did they leave me stand on the corner? They didn't want diplomacy. They wanted to go like street punks because You have to understand These are members of the banana family You are part of cause of national. What are you doing acting like street punks like a gang? You this is not a gang when I you know, I say we I'm no longer in life But when I was in a life, we were in a gang You were supposed to be people that that walked and carried ourselves went on supposed to write That's why they left Anthony Robito on the corner and they go into the club and and with Pistols, you know, some of these guys had pistols in every waistband and you know, that whole thing could have went Sideways very quickly had other guys been there that day They were very lucky that it didn't and I think everybody was because it would it would have you know There would have been people At the at the very least that got hurt or people would have got killed that day John, you know, I'm interested back to the wake in and the fight there How should this have been handled you talked about diplomacy before should somebody Sort of high ranking have gone to see Josie and said hey look Mike he's not happy about this. He doesn't want you to go. He doesn't want to do anything here But if you go there could be ramifications afterward. What's the proper If there is a proper way in the mob, what is the proper by the rules way this probably should have been handled More diplomatically. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't I don't want to take away just in case they did Reach out and send him a message. They might have done that. They might have sent him a message I'm pretty I'm pretty sure they did There was a message sent to him the week before It wasn't it wasn't done the way that Dave just explained it or no or John would have I think done it But I think there was a message sent and then he sent message back saying I'm not listening to what you're telling me to do Yeah, I mean, but that's my point. My point here is John is a way to handle this and then there's a way not to handle this This is the if it happened the way Jerry can PC described this is the way absolutely not to handle this. Yeah So how would you handle it in that position? Oh? You know First of all is if I was in the position I I have to take into consideration that it's the guy's father So that's that that guy's father alone. Sorry. This guy's father-in-law. This is his family It's not like he's going to somebody else's wake, you know, then we couldn't force it. This is his family His wife is going his kids ago. It's their grandfather. This is this is this is about respect now, right? There's two kinds of respect is Respect in that life, but we have to respect somebody's family as well, right? So that's that's first and foremost second Let's say Joe's let's say Josie was sent a proper message like hey We don't want you to attend this week, right? And Josie sends a message back I'm going in I'm not listening to you right and he goes and we sent somebody there just to see if he was gonna Not listen to what we had to say I would definitely Instruct whoever it is that's going Don't you dare do anything at that wake? Don't you put your hands on him? Don't you cause a scene? Don't do anything at that wake Let him know that you seem that he let him know that usually there let him see you and then leave and come back and let us know that we're there And report back right John you report back But you don't but you don't do anything and then and then at that point At that point Now we will deal with Josie after the wake is over On our on our terms because that is what's called cause an usher This is called street punk moves Disrespectful there is no honor in that whatsoever and and you don't do things like that and I and to be honest with you When I heard about it and I heard I mentioned to both of you guys I heard about it prior to the article I just didn't want to I just didn't believe If it was true or not I didn't want to go with it I When I when I seen what family was involved it didn't surprise me not one bit not one bit because of past history you know you have to go by past history sometimes with things and and they have a bad track record as Got mentioned and I mean if the if the life is about honor and respect John and it's been like that for decades right if it's about that How do you Take out the eraser and wipe off the board and wipe that completely away and do something like this I mean if there's no honor there's no respect in fact it goes a thousand percent in the wrong direction Yeah But but I think that not only are Not only will the four other families in New York be looking down at this because it makes them remember something And maybe people don't get it when an associate does something it's a reflection on whoever he's with right and that's a reflection on the bagada But when any member of that life does something it's a reflection on cause an Oscar as a whole and it makes everyone look bad everybody so it makes them look bad but the public now the public's eyes are opening up and saying You know look at these guys look at what they did they attacked a 60 something year old man in front of his wife in front of his kids in front of I believe his mother-in-law and their whole entire family do you know what these Italian wakes are like People are coming from Italy people are coming from different states to come to these these wakes right And in front of the public you have people that are friends of the family this is the public that would add you don't do things like that in that life but yet they do Let's bad move Let's shift gears and talk about the fallout and From that discuss the fact that the the old way of doing things the fact that there really isn't the mob hip parade in any city Like there there was in the 20th century I've been on a few podcasts recently telling you're talking about famous mob hits and where we exist today in the mafia and 2022 and just look at the numbers Between the you know the 20 years between 02 and 22 there's been you know maybe 1011 12 mob hits around the country And in the years between 1982 and 2002 there might have been a thousand So I mean you're there's been quite quite the downturn and and it it's believed that there's been an edict not just in New York but in Chicago Detroit Philadelphia That you know mob murders are our thing of the past we mentioned Michael Meldish in your in your story about that incident between the Luccheses and the bananas he was the last real significant mob hit in New York in 2013 His you know the people that ordered that have all been convicted and sent to prison Dave over in your neck of the woods. The last mob murder was in 2012 And in my neck of the woods here in Detroit probably 2007 so it's been a while what Yeah if this is a graph this is a graph this is now this is way back then like well like an uphill spike like you haven't seen before Well I have a funny I have something to share on that note so I received I can't even tell you the amount of messages and dms that I received from Instagram over this incident but I'm going to just highlight one that has to do with this A guy wrote me and said John 20 years ago they would have they would have they would have killed this guy Joe see in those bikers right and my answer was no my friend 20 years ago that incident would have never took place Nobody would have get anything like that but you guys are correct and I think that it's it was more about what what riles the public or the media rather and Laura forceman up more than a mob hit nothing right it's not a moral and it's not a moral and ethical decision This is yes so no it's I don't want to go to jail decision that's what the decision is that's really if it's if it's country wide or just New York State or Philly it's basically an organized organized crime thing where they're saying well finally they spawned up because they they never they never learn from history except now with this they do What is history show us if we start leaving bodies lying around the street they're going to come after us and wipe us out and they're going to come down on us so let's stop doing that let's start shelving these guys and that's why I again I bring up how that word has such magnitude it's not an insignificant word people throw it around like it's nothing all the time they do it with me and they don't realize that it's your bug out of your family basically telling you Joe Camarano we would gladly kill you but because of what's going on you know we're going to shelf you but we would gladly kill you so be happy that this is what's going on otherwise 20 years ago we would have put you in a trunk that's that's really what shelving is about And I got to tell you George Anastasia and I talked about this on the last mob talk sit down video we did earlier in the month. Listen, in Philly, the mob guys are in their late 50s. Joey Merlino just turned 60 in their early 60s they've all done nine 1014 some have done 20 some have done more Joe Massimino still in jail he's probably done half his life in prison. Some of the scarf or guys have. Yeah, some of the scarf or guys 25 to 30 years in jail 28 2726 those guys do not want to go back to jail. I have heard down here that there is an edict from New York from the five families that they don't want bodies left on the street anymore, because there's so much intermingling of business in terms of making money between families and groups and crews and things like that. What reflects on one reflects on all john you talk about this a lot when you and I have conversations. If one group does one thing that just brings bad light and heat and the feds on top of everyone, not just one group not just your little wing and a family or whatever everybody it's embarrassed everybody then your business and whatever tape or whatever cooperator they have who was wearing a wire that stuff then gets played out in a courtroom in a public courtroom in a federal courthouse, covered by reporters, very rarely now, I will say that about the media covering those kind of things. But that gets played out, and that's no good for anybody it's not good for business. It's not good for making money. It's not good for anything. And John goes right at what you always talk about the honor the loyalty to respect that all that all blows up when you do that. That's why there hasn't been any murder. I know Scott want to talk about the last 20 years let's talk about the last 10 in New York and Philly there's been two murders to and I'm not even sure yet. At this point Scott you've done some research on this to that did you know DPA trauma murder in 2012. We're not positive. It's not sure that was a mob hit there were allegedly two mob guys involved. It could have been an incident. Could have been a personal right. You've heard stories about that murder. It could have been personal. Yeah, right. So, and let's just for people that don't that don't get it. If, if a guy is in that life and what I mean by that is he's an inducted member, and he's, I'm just going to go around about you guys know what I'm talking about. And he's, let's say at a card game, and somebody gets disrespectful and says something disrespectful to the guy and insults him. And that guy takes it upon himself to maybe get somebody else and together they go and they kill this guy, right. That's not a mob hit. That's not that's a personal vendetta like that's a personal beef between a guy who happens to be a member of the mob. But you don't really look at that as oh that's a mob hit just because the guy's in a mob that doesn't make it a mob hit because he wasn't sent to do that. And he's taking it upon himself to do that. Maybe, maybe. And John, you well know, when you do something like that, you take care of your own personal business using yourself as a made guy and another made guy. Yeah, right. That brings heat on you from your own family because hey, hey, did you run this by somebody. People know, did you touch base with your boss, your top Oh, yes, right, your lieutenant Georgia you your street boss. I mean, did you touch base, you didn't touch base and you did this and now look at the heat on our family because you did. I told you, I know that told you, I've said it before that there was a time they sent us to. And at the time, we didn't know who it was, you know, we know now, it was, we were going to assault Stevie Korea's son. And again, I say at the time we didn't know who the intended victim was, and things got so crazy that at one point and, you know, I hate to say it but I mean this is my mind frame back then I was in the life. I had told another member of our family Anthony guzzo I said you know what, get me a pistol I'm just going to shoot into his car and you know I'll hit him low. I got reprimanded by my captain. Don't forget I wasn't trying to go to go kill the guy, but I got reprimanded just for that. And what he said to me was, F told you to go shoot anybody we told you to go assault somebody so that was me taking kind of matters into my own hands. In that sense, imagine taking matters into your own hands and killing a guy without running the past your captain. Of course you need your problem. We should mention that there actually has been three mob related murders out of New York in the last couple years, but not of the significance of what the Mike Meldish hit was who by the way, Mike Meldish and Mikey man who are and Mikey knows who both came up in the purple gang, the New York purple gang of the. Well, my Mikey Meldish was his boss. Right. But you know in 2018 Sally Daz, who was an associate of a bunch of different crime families got killed by his own kid. Yeah, I don't consider that anything to do with the mob. Right, Vincent Zito. Another Lucchese loan shark. Another one nothing to do with mob this is you got two incidents right just because the people involved were on record with people or associated to to a crew or family. You have one incident where a son, I mean, as crazy as it is gets the father killed with blood members for money. And you have a second incident for money again, where a best friend or a close friend kills and robs his his friend. And to me, I don't I don't personally consider those mob hits. But the boss of the Gambino crime family Frankie boy Cali killed by a mentally disturbed friend of his nieces, which again it has nothing to do with my politics but it was a someone that was a mobster who was killed. And we know that he was and is a mentally disturbed young guy who thought in his mind that he was going to make a citizens arrest, you know, and it went sour, you know, you know, and we should we should also. This, this is a good segue or a good connect the dots here. We're talking about how the mob doesn't murder like it did in the past. This, this kid, I'm blanking on his name right now, but this kid Anthony. It's been three, it's been three years. And he's still standing. If this would have been at any other time any other era in the New York mafia they would have killed this guy. Look, I hope I'm wrong because I've made this prediction and I don't, I don't want to make predictions when somebody's life, or anyone's life is at stake. But I was asked a long time ago, what I thought about retaliation from the Sicilian faction. And my, my answer was, it's what it's not if it's when and on and it's it's unfortunate. You know, I think his name is Anthony. But anyway, the shooter is probably in the safest place right because he's, he's in prison and probably in protective custody somewhere, wherever he is, but he does have a mother he does have a father he does have a brother. And, you know, I would, I would say that if anyone was going to pay a price, it would be the father of the brother, and it would be years from now, you know, they're known to sit and wait and wait and wait, you know, and then act. I mean, I hope I'm wrong. Listen, they may be waiting for this to all play out to in court, we don't know that I mean this guy's been analyzed back and forth. He has a very good attorney, by the way, who has made their points in court and he still remains where he is now we three three and a half years since this happened a little more. And nothing's happened on either end from the mob and or justice system at this point at this point I think the kind of temporary ruling or standing ruling is that he was not of sound mind when this happened. So his name is Anthony. His name is Anthony. Yeah, let me also just, I forgot to john so you're safe ground there. I need to state for the record and I know this again we're talking about a different era. But the fact that someone was mentally unstable, you know, john got his people killed someone because he took a shot at him in the neighborhood. Yeah, the guy that was known as kind of a neighborhood crazy. They didn't take that to account when they decided no they didn't. You're right. But it goes back to what you guys were saying earlier. What was the error that the guy that's 1987. Yes, you see the difference. Yeah, the difference is that you had guys, wise guys walking around strapped up meeting with pistols back then, versus a boss that was heard a noise come out of his house, seen there was a fender bender. And my, my theory of it is that, you know, he was trying to, you know, he's seen it was a young kid mean Frankie Kelly seen a young kid backed up into his truck. You know, he could always get the truck is no big deal. He'll always get the truck fix no big deal. And I believe it's when he went to go walk away. The kid must have turned around and said something like you're under arrest or something. I'll put you under arrest or whatever. And that's maybe when he might have said something back to him and been a little firm with him or maybe say go f yourself or something like that. And the kid close out and, you know, and shoots it. But, you know, you're right. Years ago. The same thing similar happened to John Gotti and they, they dealt with it. What's what do you think the difference in the situation. If Joe Saunders, the original Joe Saunders was still on the street. I mean this would would have never reached this point. Joe Saunders father Joe Joe sees dad. I mean, he was that play role. If he if he's here. Does any of this happen in the last four or five years. No, no, no way. You know, let's not forget the mentality of a Joe Saunders senior the father, and a Mikey knows me. I mean, look at look at some of the, look at some of the incidents that went on. What would Mike, you know, they say in that life past performance goes a long way says a lot. Look at Mikey knows his past performance and look at his past performance just as a boss, even from in prison. Yeah, we should also point out who tapped originally who originally tapped Mikey knows as acting boss it was Vinnie gorgeous. He knows his acting and where's Vinnie gorgeous right now. Vinnie gorgeous is in prison for life. We're trying to put out hits on judges and prosecutors. He's going on. Right. And going on hits himself while he's a capo and acting boss. So, listen, hey, he still looks good Scott in prison. Still looks good. You know, but there's a long line of lunacy. Yeah. In the banana bosses chair in the Lucchese. We have Vicka Musso, who's been running that family from prison for for 30 plus years, who was a who until the Boston, the old school Boston Philly, Nicky Scarfo died a couple years ago was aligned with Scarfo in prison. Yeah. You're talking about two lunatics there that were like minded lunatics behind bars who thought they could retake the Philly mob. Because Vicka Musso backed Nicky Scarfo senior bar from it back to back to the story at hand. I just I just shake my head more and more the more I think about it not that not in disbelief just that it was the fact that it was done. But that, you know, you would, they would step that law to attempt to do something like that is just outrageous. So the three budget. The three, the three alleged banana soldiers and Kapo that that were there to enforce Mikey knows his edict were Johnny Joe junior, who we mentioned before, Ernie ILO who we mentioned before. And then Johnny Mulberry, who was that who's the couple was the highest ranking member there. And Johnny Mulberry from my research and tell me if I'm wrong, guys. I believe he was the one that was acting as a go between for Mikey knows, when he was in prison, when Joe see junior was trying to possibly bump Mikey knows out of the boss's seat and pull the capos. It was Johnny Mulberry that was coming to deliver him the messages from Mikey notes. I don't know the answer to that. Okay. I could be right. Let me let me. Yeah, let me pull this apart for a second. Internally. Now that this actually did happen. Three guys went and took care of this at the funeral home in a very embarrassing, disrespectful call whatever you want to call it. What's the internal strife now in the bad animal crime family these three guys got the crap kicked out of them. Yeah. So not only did we go there to do what you wanted us to do. We got the shit kicked out of us. So what are you now going to do. Yes. Whoever whoever let's say, let's let his lawyer says he didn't order anything. Okay, let's let's say that's true. What are you going to do about this now dude we went and did what you wanted us to do and look what happened to us. Right. What's the internal strife there inside the banana crime. That's exactly what you just said. Those three guys out of everybody are going to put the most pressure for revenge. That's that's, that's where, because they were embarrassed, they were not only embarrassed they got their ass handed to them. So that that's where the pressure is going to come from. When we when, excuse me, Scott mentioned earlier that, or was it you Dave somebody mentioned, Mikey knows is insecurity. Right. Yeah, Scott. You're dealing with an insecure boss, right. So do the three guys who got the bad end of that situation, really have to poison an insecure as bosses mind for revenge. Because now, if he was insecure, before this happened, how insecure is he now that he has a goal over his face that I'll use your words, allegedly he sent three of his guys to go handle something. And they got wiped out in a funeral parlor. And not associates. They didn't send, you know, he didn't farm out muscle. They weren't Albanians, or, you know, these were made. Let's let's let's go another direction for a second. Let's go another direction for a second. This is all over the papers. It's in. I don't think the undisputed most widely read. Gangland.com. Right. It's all over the place. It's everywhere. People are talking about it. mob guys are talking about it. What do you think the FBI is doing right now. You think they'd have trouble going to get a warrant right now to go up on a wire. Because of this, we have this massive internal strife in the banana crime family. We have allegedly a boss ordering three made guys to go do this. And now we got to worry about retaliation. Your honor, the public safety could be in danger here. Wouldn't you love to be an FBI agent in New York right now listening to this bullshit. You know, you know, because you know it is going to go this if they're not already up on wires, John, right, if they're not already up on the wires, could you see them having a problem getting a wire permission to put up a wire on this. And what a conversation that would be here. When incidents like this happen, they, they, they love it. Not that not that not that a 60 something year old man right at a funeral or that that there was a brawl at a funeral. The fact that it took place, because it opens up so many doors. Do I think that they went to Josie. Most definitely. I don't most likely he knows how to talk to them and he's probably not going to say say much. But with that being said, I think that an incident like this opens up doors that the banana family doesn't want to be open because it could lead to disastrous, you know, things happen inside that family like indictments. You want to list of witnesses, you want to list of witnesses, you've been to a wake before right John. What do you do when you go to a wake you sign in right that you were there. Well, they want to list of witnesses. Ask the future subpoena the funeral home. Do you know what else they're going to do this. They're going to subpoena the the. There's got to be video of it. There's cameras. There's video of it somewhere. They're going to they're going to have they're going to have all of it. They not going to they have all of that. I have to farm out this this wake as well. This was held at a specific funeral home, but that I read properly that another funeral director handled it. That was close with the family I thought I read something about that as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because they don't have a big enough venue or big enough facility to handle it, that kind of thing but I could just see this, like, getting legs, like no tomorrow I would bet money fbi so working over the weekend this weekend, I'm going to get up on this and get ahead of this a to see if there's going to be retaliation be you must protect the public because what if there's a drive by shooting at a clubhouse or something like that in retaliation for this. Oh, this is this is a biker gang that likes to hang at a particular location. Let's go visit that location you got to you got to be worried about that protecting the safety of the public. And in addition, you might hear all kinds of interesting things on a wire like that. The intentions in a crime family are the quickest way to end up under indictment. I mean really I mean look at all of the most famous internal squabbles within mob families around the country and inevitably at the end of the road is every one of those guys that was involved are facing, you know, the judge for it, and most likely going to prison. And they, the government, and particularly the FBI have so many sources. So many that they know more about this story than you I anyone who wrote about it, Dave. Probably even more than Josie knows. They know more about it than anybody because the they have their sources in place and they already know the whole story. Guarantee they know the whole entire story exactly what took place and what's going on afterwards. And to your point, John, how do we know they didn't have somebody at the funeral to see maybe they heard about this beforehand. Maybe they're up on a wire and they hear about it or they know about it or somebody tells them about it. And they, I'm a member of the public I knew the family right and I go in and you know could have been anybody that go in there and say, see what happens now you have your own witness right there. I don't know that. I think that if the, if there was any agents they would have definitely, they would have put a stop to it that's for sure right have to. Yeah. But I'm wondering if they were surveilling that that that funeral. That's their thing and we all know that they surveil. Right. And let's be clear that this didn't again I want to just emphasize or people that maybe haven't consumed the, the headlines or the gone into the articles that hold those headlines. This didn't happen in the parking lot of the funeral home. This happened in front of the body. Yes. As Joe C went to go pay his last respects to his father in law he was attacked in front of the body. And this all happened in the middle of the funeral home. Yeah, and to stress the fact again, in front of his wife in front of his kids in front of his mother in law and their entire family and their friends. I mean, that's like, not that it would make it any better if they did this outside, but it's that more worse that they did it inside. It's an unmitigated PR disaster that, like you say it the, it's happening within the banana cram crime family this is an issue for Mikey knows but it's reflecting on everyone else in that life in New York City and the heat comes with that attention and with that. It's a bad look. It's a bad look all around. It's a bad look for everybody. And it all it does is bring attention to stuff that you know you're trying to keep attention away from. Yeah, I don't think you can rule out possible criminal charges here at some point to if there was surveillance video, if there were cameras there, all that kind of thing. These are, these are. You arrested over this. And if they could prove that there was an order passed down to those three guys to go there. Now you have a whole significant other direction by the feds potential. And as far as the bike is go right. So of course, of course, the banana family would love to know who exactly the bike is the only, the only person that could tell him exactly who the bike is one is the brother of Joe and he's not going to tell him. No, never going to give his friends up. And they're the only ones who really look good, look good here, even though I don't endorse beating other people. Having said that, they're the ones who come out of this looking good they stood up for their guy. That's what I mean in a really, really disrespectful event that took place. And knowing what they were going up against to let's not forget you think that danger by knowingly putting their hands on made guys. Absolutely. Maybe that tells you a little bit about the mob. And where they stand these days. Where we are in 2022 that allegedly independence had no problem stepping to right. I couldn't say that any better myself. There you go. I've been hanging around you guys a lot too too much. That's a good note to end on if you guys are all right. This was fun. We want we've gone about it all over an hour. And I think we've given the viewers great insight. John, I can't thank you enough, Dave, you're a you're you're a living legend, a superstar. I appreciate the invitation. I nod to both of you guys for helping me do my job and let's let's try to maybe do this again. This was fun. I just want to say to both of you esteemed gentlemen that I highly respect the both of you. I think that, you know, I told I've said it before I've told other people so I appreciate being on with both of you guys. I appreciate you guys as well. Thanks for the invitation. Thanks, Dave. Thanks, John. Thanks for checking in on this special edition of breaking news original gangsters podcast. You're going to be able to check this out audio and video. It's going to be on Dave's site. It's going to be on our site. It's going to be on John's all of our social media. So check it out in the coming days. Thank you very much. We'll see you next time. Scott Bernstein and OG podcast out.