 We're back with the breakfast in Plastivia Africa. It's time where we go through the papers this morning and we call it off the press, usually an exciting time and Gide Johnson will be with us making sense of the papers, especially the headlines on the front pages. Gide, compliments of the season and thanks for joining us. Same to you, and compliments of the season to all of you guys throughout the world. Wish them Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year also in advance and bringing them greetings from Kainah. Oh, that's great. Probably close to you, the Chief of Defence staff or the Chief of Army staff, I beg your pardon. You better be careful, so you're not arrested, you know, with him as well. Not to show that the civil cause can handle that. That will be done by the military hierarchy. There is a procedure in which, if you relate to discipline of the military is done, I think they have their own judicial process and it doesn't matter if you refer to them and then what is the head of the Army, so who questions him? We'll get to that point. Let's start off with the nation. It talks about the federal government. We support that state with 5.03 trillion in seven years and that's broadly written on the nation newspaper. Nigeria not broke, not defaulting in debt repayment. We're trying to reduce poverty says state. Now, this is a response to, you know, for the question by the federal government where they said, you know, state government or state governors are responsible for, you know, the poverty that we're experiencing. And you also have to bear in mind the recent statistics where those who are poor, about 72% are from rural community. How do you respond? Now, when you look at the issue of poverty, that has to do with the structure of government that we have. The bulk of the resources goes to the federal government and then none of the resources goes to the local government because what is allocated to the local government is not disbursed to them by the state government because of the joint account system. And then you knew when the president came up with executive for that time to bring about autonomy into the local government, the state governments resisted and you compare the number of percenters. You also have some of the six percenters at the local level, the six percenter at the state level and one percenter at the federal level and the bulk of resources goes to the percenter at the state and at the federal level. So the local government is left behind. And like you pointed out, it's not even 72% over 80% of the population lives in the rural area. And these rural areas do not have access to basic infrastructure. And when you see governors doing their projects, they do their projects in major cosmopolitan area of their state. In major cosmopolitan area of the state. Let me throw a shot. Let me fire a shot. Now, let's go to River State, for example, or 90% or if not 95% of the projects that we have seen that Wiki has showcased are in Podacot. Like a friend, a colleague said, he said, well, you can point to that that Podacot is a one is a one city state. And then if you come to some other states to begin to see that that the concentration is in the capital city and then probably major, major towns, rural areas are disconnected. And these are the things that the governors we showcased in the past. When the first Republic, the second Republic, you see the integrated connection of road networks in Nigeria. So if you are going to Ijebu, Ijebu, Ijebu, Ijebu, Ijebu, Ijebu, Ijebu, Ijebu, Ijebu, Ijebu, Ijebu, Ijebu. You go to roads that are constructed in the in the first Republic, in the first Republic, the roads are still there. Some, some communities will have remained detached from Nigeria, even not for the first Republic. So if you are not taking constructive export to connect the rural areas to the urban areas, then we have this poverty, poverty, poverty problem. And don't forget that with the exception of Nigeria is still a major agrarian society. 80 close to about 80 percent of the labor in this country are employed in the agricultural sector of the economy. And in this agricultural sector of the economy, they are mostly in the rural areas. If not for oil, a lot of things will have, will have, will have, will have, will have gone wrong in this country. So I agree that the states need to do more, the local governments need to do more. And we need to, we need to detach the local government from the state government. And then we need to also look at, in fact, the bulk of the resources should go to the local government because everybody identifies with their local government, not with their state of origin. Not when we want to vote, we go back to our respective local government, to our respective units, not even the state. So if we don't do something about this messy, I can assure you there's no messy with respect to this poverty problem. All right. So what we understand that that's very important. How can the state, I mean, the local government function properly in terms of her natural? How can that function properly? How can we get the thought of government to function properly just as you have the state and the federal government? Who's responsibility? Who's responsibility? Is it that it should be granted an autonomy or function? Well, we need to make the constitutional provisions for. Unfortunately, the 1999 constitution as amended did not make any provisions for the local government. It made the local government to be an extension of the state government. As a result, some states have not conducted local government election after it was first. Otherwise, it was conducted to kickstart the Fourth Republic in 1998. So, well, the night assembly had made the provisions in terms of their, in terms of their constitutional review. You've also seen that some states, to the influence of their governor, have rejected this constitutional amendment to make the local government a third tier of government independent of the state of the state of the state government. Hopefully, 24 states, out of 36, will pass this amendment and it will become part and parcel of the constitution. Then the government will be constitutionally recognized as a tier of government in Nigeria. That's the solution to the problem. Otherwise, if we still have what we have, if we check the story, one of the stories in one of the newspaper, where I didn't get a president complaint about state-staking funds that belong to local government. We continue to have this type of situation in this country. Well, we know that during the constitutional, we need to talk about this because it's very important. And if you look at our rural communities or rural areas, they are underdeveloped. There seem to be a lot of concentration on the urban centers and what a view. Although these are also villages, but however, rural communities are underdeveloped and so far, there was a bill that was voted for and out of 36, only 20 voted for during the constitutional amendment process. For financial autonomy, states like Lagos, Sekiti, Benway state rejected, you know, were not in support for financial autonomy and we understand the impact or the importance of, you know, being in control of money. So finance or funds very critical in development. So you can imagine states like Lagos, state like Lagos, and they will bring you at their chest to see that they are progressive in nature, they support restructuring and whatever you. Don't forget, the Lagos State Assembly just exists on paper. It's an extension of the governor's office. The governor's office is an extension of an office in the Koi. So if you are, if you are, so if the principal in the Koi does not support what was meant to be done with respect to, when these are people that have no respect for the government in the first instance, because we check, it's my state, I can talk about my state, authoritatively. And I will give this over and over and over and over time again. Now, that if we don't put the local government in place, the development does not come from the top. Development grows from bottom up. And in that situation, the closest government to the people is the local government. And if you don't give such government autonomy, because they want to have control over the local government, local government, we all knew what happens in all of this local government. States dip their hand into the pockets of the local government or they ask them to contribute money. You can, you can send your reporter or any journalist you can investigate. I can tell you that of Lagos authoritatively, the local government, what they do in the local government. States dip their hand into the accounts of the local government or they ask them, they give them command to contribute 10, 10 million. So imagine if 57, if 57, if 57 local government and NCTs should contribute 10, 10 million monthly. You know what it amounts to. So this is the reason why some of these principal actors don't want local government to have their independent autonomy. And some of us have argued that we need to take local government election away from CIEC and make INEC to conduct the election. There are many states in the country that do not conduct, that have not conducted elections into the local government, appointing a sole administrator, which is antithetical to democratic principle and democratic value. At the local level, you have sole administrator. At the state level, you have elected representative. At the federal level, you have elected representative. Then you discover that something is wrong. And if something is wrong with the base, the critical element of any building is the foundation. And the foundation of public governance is the local government. If something is wrong with that base of government, then something will be totally wrong. So you can imagine if states like Lagos, if principal actors in Lagos did not support local government autonomy, did not support financial autonomy, then what do you expect will happen when they have access to power at the national level? Then local government will cease to exist. Let's move away from that, but still some connection with the issue of the local government. On the punch newspaper, President Mohammed Buhari says that local government, of course, governors are stealing local government funds. That's what the president is saying. And you can also want to say that that might just also be responsible for the underdevelopment. Now, the question would be, are these governors above the law? I mean, what exactly can be done to contain this impunity? How do we check all of these excesses? Is there a way to ensure that justice is meted? Merci. One, the constitution created a joint account for the local government. Local government cannot receive their funds directly. It goes into its joint account. Because the constitution does not even recognize local government as a torture of government. You are just listed. There were no constitutional provisions with respect to how the government at that level is structured. So if you look at all over Nigeria, there's no uniformity in terms of structure. I am passionate about local government because I knew that if we really want development, nobody in America does not care who becomes the governor. What is interested is the mayor of the city. Same in Britain. People look at the councilors, the councilors, they are mayor. These are powerful people. Mayor of Washington, D.C. is more powerful than the president of United States of America. That became clear. When we used to say it, we used to think, oh, it is not possible. That became clear on January 6th with respect to who has control. That became clear during COVID with respect to who can impose COVID restriction or no COVID restriction in Washington, D.C. Where is the capital of United States of America? So we need to understand this fact that the local government is critical and central to development. However, the 1999 constitution did not provide a structure as to how elections are conducted into the local government as to what will be the structure of the local government as to what will be the tenor of the local government. As a result of that, we have a lopsided arrangement. We have in some states, we have not conducted local government election since after 1998. In fact, in 1998, we have uniformed local government election in December 1998 to start the Fort Republic. So we have not done anything. And then you will recall that the first attempt for us to have a uniformed local government structure was in 1976, when the Pasadomital Administration set up the Dasuki panel. The Dasuki panel provided a template which created a uniformed local government across the nation. Then in 1991, during the Butch Todd Republic, Babangida came up with Decretain, which provided presidentialism as a structure for local government. I'll tell you that that period was the golden era of local government in Nigeria. I can specifically talk about local government, chairman in Lagos, and talk about projects which did not. That's when you talk about William Killody of machine local government. We start the monarchy of Lagos Island local government. I don't know of any local government. I don't know if you can hear local government. And later, when the Mali-Mosher local government was created in Mali-Mosher local government. So we can go on and on and on. And I can tell you that you can point to legacy projects that were done by this local government at this particular point in time. After that, the local government has just an extension. You have people that are not even elected, they are appointed. The primaries are not done. They just impose different types of character to be the local government. In fact, if you do a comprehensive analysis of Lagos's local government since 1999 to date, you see the talent in which they call administration at the local government level. I can say for a fact for my local government. And I can say for a fact for my local government. The spokesperson to the governor can come to TV program with me and let us argue that. Or the ABC Secretary of ABC can come to TV and let us argue that. To talk about local government administration in Lagos since 1999 to date. And we talk about it. And then if they are bored enough to come and let us talk about it. Whether indeed we have a democratic structure or a proper structure at the local government at the state level in a fraction state like Lagos did, for example. Well, we can only continue to wonder and ponder what will be the way out. Unfortunately, there are a lot of lacunas with the constitution. And we probably might continue this cycle until I don't know when. Well, if there is that lacuna, those are claimed to be progressive. Those are claimed to be progressive. They should be able to set the borough and they should be able to set examples. They should be able to set examples, provide leadership and direction. I believe that they will be able to provide leadership and direction with respect to how things should be done. Since it is the bastion of democracy and is the base of the progressive ideology as they claim. All right. Turkish action is the real deal. I remember owning a t-shirt like that. Turkish chip. Well, on the punch newspaper, politicians behind attacks on INEK facilities. That's what Jagai is saying. Who are these politicians? Now, very interesting also is that, you know, there's also a warning from Nas saying, stop using thoughts. Nas wants governors. Who are these governors? Who are these politicians? How come they have not been apprehended? If we know the people who are causing all of the mayhem and they are both the law, why haven't they been arrested? What is the law? What's going on with the law? And, you know, justice is taking its place. Messi, I'm not a prophet of them. Neither am I sincere. But I can tell you that there is a need for INEK to work with security agencies to ensure that they protect their infrastructure. And the elections in Echiting and the elections in Oslo State are shown clear to the political class that this is no longer business as usual. The introduction of beavers has taken away, has reduced the capacity of the political class to manipulate the process by over 90 percent. The over 90 percent, it has reduced that. So no longer can anybody sit in one place and write the result. Because as soon as the elections are conducted, the results are uploaded. And you have seen beavers attempt by major stakeholders to discredit that process, to talk about Nigeria not having the capacity to do that. I am here in Cardinal, you are in Lagos, and we are doing this program there in Lagos. Now, and everybody all over the world, they are watching this program. So you discover that these people would make, who are those that are stakeholders in the political process? Who are those that the system would benefit or will not benefit? Who are those that the new system is threatening? It is those that feel threatened by the new system that want to destroy the structure that has been put in place. Why would the same person, why would someone that does not have support think in his rightful mind to go and set ablaze INEC offices? Is to make it practically impossible for INEC to deploy technology in this election. And when you deploy this technology, you reduce the capacity of human involvement in the system. And then when you reduce the capacity of human involvement in the system, you reduce the level of manipulation that can be brought to bear on the system. So they are not comfortable with this system. And that's why we have said it. I give you an example. I give you an example. I threw a shot at my state. Let me throw a shot at another state. Do you know the reason why some governors are appointing 100,000, 200,000 aides? They are not appointing those aides because they want them to be advisor. They are appointing them because of electoral purposes. And I give you, I give you class class. Now, if you have 200,000 aides, you promise them, you give them money. And then you promise them to be your advisor. 200,000 aides, they're able to convince five people to vote for your party. That's one million. You already have one million in the bag. In the past, you could sit in one place and write the result and write one million and whatever you. Check the results. If people don't go back to result, check the result of 2019 election. Compare 2019 election with 2015 election. Compare 2015 election with 2011 election. Compare 2011 election with 2020, 2007 elections. And look at the result. Look at the trend. There's what we call trend analysis. Look at the trend. Look at the figures. Do a statistical analysis. And you see the skewness of the voting pattern and then of voters turnout. Then you'll be shocked that, so it arises then, some of the claims that we have in terms of the number of voters registered and the number of people that actually come out to vote. The last election, the president get murdered. There were less than 30 million address that voted. The president didn't get. But we have voted in 2007. Yeah, I don't have vote 22 million votes. In 2011, I can't recall now. I don't have the figure of. We need the number of votes. You don't have vote. So, invariably, the political class knew that they can't call for the form ECA taking and look for the form ECA and sit in one place and write the result. So my concern is, and it's also concern of a lot of Nigerians, why these persons who are enemy of the states. I mean, politicians who are responsible for the attack on INEC facility. That translates to, you know, truncating the democratic process or an election. These are real enemies. Why haven't there been arrested? Who are these persons? I mean, they're really above the law. If we know them, what's going on? That's the point. Who are these guys? Who are these politicians? And so because it seems like we know these persons, but we seem to be helpless. Fingers or our hands are folded or crossed. And then we can't really do anything. Unfortunately, that does you come from the office of the Attorney General of the Federation. Unfortunately, and then we have an Attorney General of the Federation. It's the job of the Attorney General of the Federation. And history, we put the Attorney General of the Federation in his rightful place with respect to what he was able to do with dispensation and administration of justice in Nigeria. Now, we have seen a lot of refactions and nothing has been done. And since 1999, this is the first time we have had an Attorney General of the Federation the first time and the second time of a sitting president. We have, this is the longest time we have had a single person occupying that office. And at the same time, we have not seen critical issues being done with respect to administration and dispensation of justice. Like I pointed out and like I said, history, we put the Attorney General in the right perspective when it's at the end of his tenure with respect to what he's able to do and what he's not able to do with that. We have a situation in Nemo State in the last election whereby the election result was declared under the rest. A gun was pointed on the head of the returning officer to declare the result. The beneficiary of that process is still a sitting senator. You know what I'm talking about? The governor of status, the law of living status that is a president senator in the president office. So we lack the political way to prosecute people that have committed infractions. Now, we must uphold the constitution. We must abide by the principle of rule of law. We talk about the equality before the law. Now, if we don't enforce our laws, people will continue to break the law with impunity. There's nobody that is above the law. Okay, if the governors are protected by immunity, are those the same how to do these things protected by immunity? But you know what happens? We rather prosecute people. We rather prosecute people that insult or allegedly insult people in authority. We have a classic case of a young boy that has been arrested with respect to his post on Twitter. We have a classic case of a former student of mine. We are still on that matter that has been arrested in Trabastit. In Trabastit because of his publication in Trabastit and his radio station in Trabastit used what mainstream media used in their reports. And then it was started to cut by the state, spirited by the attorney general and taken to court and still in detention till date. All right, G.D. Johnson. Talking about that has been done well. So invariably, it's easier for the attorney general or for those that should enforce the law to quickly prosecute individuals who they think that are one, a threat to the state or a threat to their interest or the political interest. That the prosecute people that are actually committing crimes against the state destroy democratic principles and democratic values. Let's quickly share your thoughts on this. It's on the daily trust, very interesting headline. Nigeria needs no debt relief. That's what the finance minister has quoted to say. As federal government releases $5.03 trillion, $3.4 billion to states in seven years. We're doing very well. That's by the fact that we're owing so much. Nigeria's debt stock is at $42.8 trillion as of June. That's according to a report from the DMO. That was the crisis. Another minister you need that, as conquered, will be very, very clear after he leaves office. He's the minister of finance. She took over from Kenya at the Russian and she's been one of the longest minister of finance that we have also had in this country. It is interesting for us to see that. That's why the fact that Nigeria needs no debt relief. And then under our watch, Nigeria has collected, has committed to a lot of looms. We have committed to a lot of looms, foreign looms, that has imposed everybody in terms of foreign debts on Nigeria. So you could see that someone that should pertain are monetary policy. That should pertain Nigeria and collecting looms for many projects. And at the same time, see Nigeria does not need debt relief. All of these characters have said it and I'll say it loud and clear. It's just a matter of time. And what does that say is time is to be put them in the right foot place they belong to. Because she's in charge of the monetary policy. She's in charge of the fiscal policy of the country. And then how our fiscal discipline has Nigerian been with respect to balancing our budget, with respect to our foreign debts and foreign loans, with respect to our foreign reserves. So these people, they are just characters that I just think that they can just use the platform of the media to talk, to spew out whatever comes to their mind to Nigeria. Thinking that Nigerians do not have a thinking gap to put on. In what way, as a policy, Nigerians grow domestic goods. In what way, as a policy, as a finance minister, help to reduce the inflation that we have. In what way has it reduced the commodity price that we have? GD, last quickly, we have to consider. This has to be on the issue because a lot of Nigerians are going through a difficult time. This is a festive period. We've already started the second of December, and people are expected to travel from one point to the other, getting to work, going about the day's business has been almost difficult. Right, but here on the punch, fuel queues grow longer after the federal government's sufficiency claim of over two billion liters of petrol that can take the country for about 34 days, 30 days, if you like. But I'd like to ask, does that fuel scarcity where you are? Yes, because I do allow one of my team members to go yesterday, either for him to go yesterday to go and fill this car, or for him to complete this morning. I mean, after going to fill this car with PMS, so we have to allow him to go. So there's first Castel Bonajie, and then you know the style, you know the template. So you know the template of how systematically the pump prices of petroleum products are increased in Nigeria. You know the style. You know the style of how it has happened under this pressure administration. You are the same set of people in 2011, that went to 2011, 2012, that went to Georgia to protest the pump prices of petroleum products. The same set of people moved this from 97 to 121 or something, from 121. And then you see, let's talk about 145. It was when he moved to 145 that there was, there was some measure of protest. Where is NNC in all of this? Have you seen NNC? Have you heard any statement from organized people? Have you heard anything from NNC with respect to what is going on? The hardship that Nigerians are going through, and then the prices they are paying for this petroleum, petroleum, petroleum products, and then you have the president as the minister of petroleum, and then you have the minister of it, and then you have no statement from NNC, BC, and the rest of them. So as far as I'm concerned, this just has to increase the pump prices of petroleum products. And what can we do? They've discovered, they've tried it over time, and they discovered that Nigerians' resilience is weak when it comes to, when it comes to getting, getting foil. They will use whatever means they have to get the foil. Life continues until they continue to use this particular approach because nobody is taking responsibility. Nobody is taking responsibility for this untolder ship that we are going to. Nobody, nobody, nobody is taking responsibility. All right. You can imagine that Nigeria is a major producing country, and we are all friends. Well, Gideon, we have to go now. I'm sure that we can have this conversation some of the time. We do appreciate your thoughts this morning, quite interesting on some of these issues. We look forward to sharing your thoughts as we proceed into a day 22. Merci. It's a pleasure to do it too. Thank you, and Merry Christmas once again. Merry Christmas to you. And to you. Well, that's the size of the press this morning. On the breakfast, we take a break and when we return, we'll be looking at the first major conversation. Please stay with us.