 We are alive here. We are in the metal voice back again part two part two Neil Kay my long-lost uncle and I'm really not sure I'm really not sure is this is this part to the last part All right guys Again, we're doing part two. We had so much to talk about that we had to like split this in two I'm gonna just start things off Neil Kay recollections of a rock DJ of course by Stefan Urus I'm pronouncing his name right the forward by the one and only Steve Harris of Iron Maiden pre-order the book now Wait to hear what it's all about some fabulous stories the history of new wave of British heavy metal or the rise We shall say the rise of Iron Maiden and so many other cool bands and stories in that book something like 17 thousand hours How many hours was it 17,000 hours? How many hours did you talk to like Neil about how many hours to bad how many hours did you guys speak? Around Mm-hmm Just a moment we have around 60 sessions so around 100 hours All right Stefan you have the first question today. Thank you everybody who's joining Leave some questions for Neil we're gonna do a lot of a little bit of Q&A People I know they have a lot of questions for you, but Stefan I'm gonna give you the first question you can ask Neil and go ahead Yeah, so more of 100 of hours of talk, but I forgot to ask something and I will ask exclusively now so Neil It's common knowledge in Whole world that hair metal started with black Sabbath and also The term hair metal started with Stefan Wolf or Borg to be wild From lyrics extract and Maybe it's true. Maybe it's not you know better, but I just want Know the story how term hair metal start to circulate among the people how people accept When on which way why you Uh made have metal a sound house name and how how have metal term came about we Conquered the world That's a good question. And I just a note a note. It was John Kay from Stefan Wolf Believe it or not, and I don't know if you're related or not, but go ahead Another hey, what a what a surname Jimmy I guess what is it late afternoon where you are now? Yeah, what time do you have five or nine p.m. Oh, okay Well, uh, welcome aboard everybody. Very nice to be with you once again From the United Kingdom over here where we have about 10 after 10 in the evening Thanks very much for joining us. Hope you're going to enjoy the session Much to talk about and this leading question first off from my biographer The great Stefan juras heavy metal meister supremo of books This this term heavy metal actually I believe well, I know in the um in the film Easy rider The lyric is heavy metal thunder But it does not apply there to the music. It's the sound of a Harley Davidson That's what it applies to heavy metal thunder But well, still, you know Harleys are known as hogs in the biking world And the the undeniable sound of a Harley is heavy metal thunder, you know, they're heavy They made a metal and it's a very very unique sound And when you open up a Harley the world knows you're coming So heavy metal thunder, I believe really applies in that instant Not to the music but to the sound of a Harley Davidson now The business about how did it come about I can't answer for the whole world Folks it I mean I can only You know give you my reasons behind it. And when I first heard the phrase um I guess I was at the at the sound house at the wagon yet, but um, I took it to mean high energy rock not just sort of traditional Sabbath style metal But I actually took it to mean high energy rock heavy metal That at the time Judas Priest was very prevalent Vans like that, you know, we had a huge amount of real class moving stuff. I never actually thought about it in any other way, but high energy rock or power rock if you want Now the reason I called the club the heavy metal sound house for the bandwagon Heavy metal sound house to give it its full name The bandwagon was the name of the venue Yonks before I ever got near it back in the 60s. It was a country and western Um sort of venue, you know, we got both kinds of your country and western from One of my favorite movies the blues brothers, right yeehaw Um, and that's what it did and and the inside was done out like a sort of a b-movie saloon from the cowboy era of the 1860s You know, there was a sheriff's office and a veranda and all that stuff And it was done out for that reason that comes you and western were played there So I had to name bandwagon What I couldn't stand Any way anywhere anytime and that goes on for today as well. I hate the word disco tech That's probably because I spent the early years of my life working in the London clubs In disco techs in the late 60s playing the music of the day, which actually was quite good Um, but I couldn't see the connection between the word disco tech an odd rock It didn't add up to me and I was looking for an alternative way Of you know naming the club that was appropriate for the sort of music that we were going to do Now I came up with the idea of You know house of sound first of all I thought about well First of all it was influenced by the sound system we had there. I mean it was massive And up until that time I had never seen a club system Like it it was a monster. It was a band It was part of a band pa. It was like a five or six way aside You know jbls martin. It was it was heavy There was I don't know about nine ten caves work Of pure power there. You can't associate that with disco tech. They don't work So then I thought people are going to come To a house of sound because the system is magnificent And I suddenly got the idea to swing it around call it the sound house And that's basically How that happened as regards the the praise heavy metal. I mean I as I said I took it on initially To mean high energy rock, but of course as time went by It quickly established itself as the reference point as you said Jimmy, you know black Sabbath and a lot of bands Wrongly were titled with that monitor with that name You know Led Zeppelin and not a heavy metal band and if you know, they're not they are not It doesn't matter. They're not That's not what they do and it's never what they did. They might have had a couple of You know fast moving numbers, but they're far more of blues orientated in a semi acoustic band than They ever were a metal band, but that also that term has evolved too, right? I mean What what what heavy metal was back in the late 70s versus what it was in the 80s and 90s and Then it becomes industrial then it becomes You know to today with death metal and you know, people don't even people don't even look at bands that were Heavy metal back in the day as metal today, right? actually that Is going to be talked of a little later on folks because I've come across a band that I really want to Enlighten everybody with and tell them about them. I am very enthusiastic about this particular band Who are basically unique in what they do and the way they do it and who they are? Um, we want to talk about this you better. I consider I consider those far-off times as you said Jimmy a kind of a An absolute top of the mountain area Of greatness when it comes to the bands that populated the world in our field You know in the mid to late 70s through to the mid 80s. I think that was a watershed time of greatness And some of the some of the tunes, you know that appeared from some great bands You know, they are still fundamentally Very popular today Which gives the legend longevity? Which proves that they were great songs. All right, here we go. We got some questions for you. We got some questions for you Right, let's go. All right K-man or Kalil says There was a Smiler song by steve harris called highway road Do you remember that song? Did they ever play it? Was it some sort of track that was never recorded? Um, as far as I know, I've never heard it Whenever maiden, I mean I did two tours with maiden. They never played it in those days They never played it on any of the shows that we were all working on I don't know the song As for whether they recorded it or not. I think really you're going to have to direct that one um more to um, you know, uh an answerable An answerable person in within the maiden camp. Um My I mean most of this I know most of the stuff they did in those days, but they never ever did that one I never heard steve talk about it either. So it must maybe A bit of a later evolution there. Yeah. I'm sorry, man Well, look, we're just they're asking you maybe you heard it about it, right? I don't know Or maybe it doesn't exist All right, um, elissa saying olive zeppelin hated that term heavy metal. That's what she's referring to All right, doug samson His departure. What do you remember that transition from doug samson? Yeah, their original drummer to Nico, right? Yeah, what do you remember from that time? I was there in the science to climb bar I'm sorry to climber. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Yeah My bad We'll climb bar was the drummer when I toured with them. Um First of all the lady you're dead right there is that hated that term being applied to themselves And I I 100% support that and always have like I said Anybody who thinks zeppelin were a heavy metal band needs to have their ed exams because they're not and never will be Um, you are listening you lot out there. You're gonna find me a little bit straight down the line I know that I do say things that sometimes have a propensity for upsetting people I am rather known for it, but I guess we're all friends here today So yeah, lady, you were right about that now the story of You know the drumming The skin beater as they used to be with Maybe skin beater is not a good new term today, but go ahead Now, but that's what they were called jim. It's be fair I ain't talking about nothing else. I'm just talking about what that was Okay, man, I know where you're going Doug Sampson Doug Sampson transitioning Doug Sampson sort of out of the band and here comes Clive Doug Sampson was the drummer when Maiden used to play the bandwagon the sound house. He was there. It was a really nice guy a terrific guy um, but When it all happened I was given to understand That Doug didn't want To carry on. He didn't want to go the whole way. I don't believe he was you know Moved out the band The way I heard it was that he just didn't want The absolute top end of the business Um, and clive burr came in. I mean clive burr was half in sorry stolen from samson um and clive Yeah, clive was the first drummer. I think he made him that got sponsorship with his drum kit the white one I'm pretty sure of that actually Um, and clive was a lot of fun on the road. Well, I used to room with him actually When we were on tour Quite often as it as it turned out. He was he is clive was a terrific guy had a great sense of humor um Ha he used to walk around the hotels after shows wearing a marx brothers false nose and glasses like you know and entertain people in very strange ways um That's enough of that. We ain't going too far with that one. Um, but let's just say let's just say that he used to wear It's very odd places Time to time Um, and that is where I shall leave that one to your imagination That's like the skin anyway. Yeah So basically the transition Was quite fast It was I'm absolutely certain, you know that dug didn't want To carry on You know, I don't know what the reasons were. I don't know if he could if he didn't have the health for it or You know if he had something in his private life that he just couldn't Give the hundred percent that it takes. Yeah, um, and I was amicable He was a really nice guy um Do you know what I've got a feeling This is right or not, but I ran into angel witchy's bass player a couple of years ago um And I've got a feeling that dug he's playing drums for them I'm not sure about that. I've got a feeling he might be Actually, someone needs to look into that Um heavy riddles is to play once the bass player in angel witch Okay, and he's got his own, you know band now And we I mean we're old mates. He was on the April wine tour with me Years ago that I did both canadian band and um Yeah, they He had developed a very bad habit actually, which I don't mind telling you about which is in the book When we're on tour At the end of their set there's support band The very last note he used to pluck on the bass He used the slender bass guitar about 30 feet up in the air And the the art was to patch it again when it came down and that would be The last You know the absolute last beat angel witch finish and he used to do this every night And people on the crew got a little bit fed up with this sort of showing off shit And when we got to london to the haversmith odian as it was known then They had this evil plan that they were going to do and they did at the end of the set riddles chucks his bass guitar high up into the atmosphere And as it starts it's downward move the lights go out And about 10 seconds later there is a massive bang heard over the pa The lights come on and it's hit him on the head and knocked him out. Oh, jeez No, you never did that again. Oh, yeah I mean, I still remember it could have been homicide, but anyways That was so damn fun. Yeah Tell me You told me some strange story. Many people don't know or forgot that but before The concert of iron man alive in the ravel ravel theater Support of Iron Maiden was banned All right, all right, okay, look, you know, this this this this phenomenon known as egg guitar That's what we're talking about I mean, I believe Myself and I've stated it I think the first time that was ever seen in public was actually at wood stock With Joe Cotter and his grease bank With a little help from my friends and he's plainly in sight While the fan play the bridge solo bridge and he is playing egg guitar And to me that's one of the very first times that I believe it was ever seen now All the fans and followers of the sound house were extreme fans. We didn't have anybody normal there People that were normal never went there Just the country's wildest loonies. That's what I got. That's what I wanted That they even exceeded my expectations every time One day a guy called rob loon house Well rob house, but his nickname was loon house. He walked in the door with a hardboard flying V Well, he just made it. He had a whammy bar on it. No strings And people went up to him and said rob what what are you going to do with that? And he said I'll show you One of his favorite bands was rush Adam I probably played 2112 and he was out there with his hardboard flying V on the floor Giving it the alex life some double double stuff and he was amazing. I mean you look he looked as if he was really doing it Not like they do the contests today I find them pathetic sad a complete piss tape and really not worth anything What happened at the bandwagon over 40 years ago with loon houses the very first Was something that was spontaneous It was of the spirit the soul and the being of rock and roll And that is what a lot of fans like to do. It's the way you feel the guitar. You can't help it I understand that But I saw this as an opportunity to take it further um Now first of all we did head banger of the year At the club and we had an in-house judges panel for the final The second year that this this happened I did head banging band of the year And I put together an all-star judging panel including members of motorhead judas priest rainbow iron maiden And members of the press corps as well were there representatives from melody makers sounds Karang hadn't hadn't been kind of invented yet and We went through hits which we did judgment in house But the final was this all-star judges panel and these guys went to absolute extreme I've never seen anything like it one band turned up with a road crew with cardboard trawby twelves and marshall heads The drummer was playing cardboard drums and in one point kicked them all over and the road crew rush out I've rebuilt the kit around it, right um anyway A lot of my you know friends in the in the industry saw all this in the press We had the press there and it was big coverage nationally internationally And steve throw me up one day and said listen we we're going to do a christmas show at the rainbow And but we don't want to support band because it takes too long To move them out and we are filming for a live You know a live video we want to do a live a live thing. Would you? You know play the support position for us and do 45 minutes or an hour something out front And then we'll just you know come on stage and of course I said, yeah, I'd love to do it and He said by the way, I want you to invite rob loon house's Air guitar band called willy clasher and the raincoats I want them to be your special guests Hmm Right, okay fine steve. All right so anyway The night comes, you know, I play my set in the middle of my set I introduce willy clasher and the raincoats to the audience. There's about I don't 4 000 of people out front And rob loon house marches out on stage and he's he's crew following him immediately He's got cardboard keyboards and he's got a double neck cardboard guitar What else right? Oh my god um He whispers in my ear. We want to do We want to do kill the king rainbow Right that that was the number said okay. That's easy enough But he said just a minute before we go We've got a guest guitarist What You're an air guitar fan. How the hell can you have a guest guitarist? He said we have And he introduced In on the microphone the vocal mic out front super loon who was also an absolute nutcase of an air guitar player super loon Was the biggest ac dc fan we had at the wagon and whenever I played dc He is the dump hop in front of my stage and Conducts the audience into the air guitarmanship and get them double and triple edge bangers one on top of the other Anyway super loon was the guest and he came out wearing a loincloth like Tarzan and he added he added a cardboard Gibson sg strap rounded And he was the uh guest of willy flasher and the raincoats And they I put the record on I played the track and To this day some people still believe they were that good From the back of the auditorium People actually thought they were playing They were wonderful. I can only tell you that they had it down for a fine art And they made it believable. They didn't perform all these crazy That they do in these contests today I've seen them. Did they blow iron maiden off the stage? I think Steve and the boys are probably watching from the wind There is a fantastic post script to the story You lot out there because After that the first thing that happened was Judas Priest Invited that band to take part in the in the video promo for living after midnight That's them on the bus and loon house Not k.k. Downing you'd seen playing the solo on his hard-core guitar Um, and he got even better after that because the band was so impressed with What they did and how they did it and it was all in good fun It wasn't a contest. It was in fun. So see made Rob loon house a kind of a Sort of a member of iron maiden, you know He made him a Yeah, another member of the band and for a while Whenever they were, you know playing somewhere reachable They used to show an old robber before he'd go and he used to go out on stage with us for the encore He did I mean, this is I know this is hard to take take on board Especially it would be fun. Yeah, I think it'd be great to watch. I think we've got to get back to the air guitar bands I was opening slots Well, I mean Just get a printer and you're good, you know, that's it I I mean they were fantastic and this is just a part of what we did at the sound house at the wagon To keep the interest there to keep the entertainment value sky high You remember jimmy, I said to you that I feel I'm more of an entertainer than just the dj because of my background and so on And I used to do a huge amount of things like this You know, so that it was unique completely unique Um, and nowhere else could it could it be found when the day ted newton walking Yeah, now now something completely different. Uh, you told me the story about Mr. Van, let me just let me just get to a question here. So I got these people Question. Yeah, so tim like I don't want to leave out the people writing in right? Tim saying does iron maiden need to find a new sound to reinvigorate their career They have had their current sound since the blaze bailey years Maybe we could just talk a little bit about blaze bailey And their choice if you want and uh, what do you think about their sound? Do they need to go back to basics? Um To reinvent a sound for iron maiden would be a different band um It's not like a progression with so many american bands, you know that change their kind of Style slightly as the years go by I mean blimey kiss went through about five million including a discotheque short Short visit which was disgusting in my view. Um, you know iron maiden or as can I quote shadespere here? Iron maiden are as constant as the north star. That's in Julius Caesar by the way um, you know If iron maiden words have changed anything they would not be In many people's view Iron maiden. I'm sorry tim. Um, I can't see how You know, and I don't I know I don't believe steve would ever Any of them would ever want to do that Um, they don't need to reinvigorate themselves truthfully Tim because they have millions of fans worldwide. They are not so much A highly respected worldwide band. They are an institution now. That's right. There are four generations of fans behind them um And still their old songs are very much requested everywhere they go They have actually used catalogs, you know, and I think that to take away That sound I know what you're thinking. Yes, maybe you think it's a little stately It's a fair comment. I mean, you know, the harmony guitar bands were many Wishbone ash being Lizzie, you know, and then they paired up with keyboards and guitar like ufo, you know, whatever you go There were and that was an era Of harmony guitars and I made and come from that era, but to try and change them now Would be to I believe You know take away the essence of what the band is It's as much a style that they have uniquely created for themselves And I don't think steve wants to leave that they have their niche in our History in heavy metal history and they're very well respected for it. Um I wouldn't like to see them become something else because it just wouldn't be steve Or it wouldn't be any of the others you know, they I mean blaze bailey change The maidens a bit I mean, I can only talk personally about this Really from from some point of view I did I did actually have a conversation with steve about it soon after it happened that that was only because Working in portugal with my band down there um I happen to hear an interview on national radio that blaze bailey gave in lisbon and I wasn't very impressed with how it was said what was said And it kind of intimated that You know his position was a little higher than I guess it was And I did I did find steve. I can say hey listen. I've just heard this broadcast but I mean, I know why I know why I had said to steve You know, why don't you you know grab one of the american high power high ranging voices? That seem to you know be prevalent in the states. There's a lot to choose from some really great singers Harry turn around and he said I'm not having to yank in the band And that kind of was that really um So blaze was the best available at the time. I guess I You know, I don't know. He's not Bruce Dickinson. Come on um Very few people are Of bruce is a very unique singer a very unique person actually so you know That's in less That's really your answer Maybe the younger fans need To read this tool to discover a more modern version of iron maiden but the truth is that You know when half a million people go down and see them in rio I don't think they really need to do very much to be honest with you. You know, would you have changed? I mean black sabbath did Did change when ronnie james deo joined the band And I don't think you know it lasted too long and ronnie james did outright all of them and he did But here's the point. Was it the black sabbath the fans wanted? You take a chance when you do something radical like that halfway through a career. Yeah, uh, neil Uh, I remember you told me for the book some story about blaze bailey. You heard him on the portuguese radio. Yeah, I just I just told it Yeah, it was portuguese I did I did hear it. Um, yeah, I mean, you know I think there are certain bands in life that just have to be left alone Really they must run their course. You have had iron maiden in the world for over 40 something years Um, they have established themselves as one of the greatest biggest most consistent Um rock hard rock bands that there's ever been You know, they're they're just a great band. I love them to bits I still do and I always will and I know that there is a legion of fans A lot like the cells around the world who echo that thought And I cannot see any advantage to trying to change Maiden this late on in their career. The question should be asking is how much longer can they do this for? That has to be the question because You can't have a heavy metal band standing around on stage like the rolling stone did A heavy metal band in essence is power. It's performance. It's delivery. It's the whole deal And you know, you can't sit down in an armchair on stage and play the trooper. It don't work That has got to be the leading question how much longer physically Can they possibly go on for I would you know, I would like to always see and I've asked everybody this and made and you know Like I made in fast, you know, you have blaze you have paul and you have, you know, the band, you know, maybe Blaze and paul opening up doing their sets of their eras and then you have made and come on That would be sort of the way to go out if you ask me, you know I I was I was speaking with steve just a few months back and I said to him that if I'm still around When the day comes and what I felt would be good. You should do it at wet hands football ground That would be a great place to finish You know that he said now now he said He's too difficult with all the problems and laws and rules and stuff But I said, listen, I'll tell you what if I'm still alive And I'm able to stand up you can put me down for the compare job and I'll play some sounds in between Since I did that at donnington's view anyway later and um, you can count me in steve and in a way I kind of like to be there for that last show just to give my little bit As it was in the beginning so shall it be in the end and I think that'll be a great way to wrap it up You know, so I don't know You know, I have no idea how it how it affects the guys in the band I mean bruce is always busy in aviation And there's develops everything, you know the others It's all a matter of health as well Yeah, yeah Let me let me ask you. Oh, yes, Dave coverdale cancelled a tour a whole tour recently and that's that's people What do you remember from the sound house tapes? You know, they say it was Dave Murray who played all the guitars, but it was paul was it paul cairns cairns I can't pronounce it What was who played the guitar on the sound house tape? So it was just Dave Murray unquestionably Dave Murray played a listen. I've been involved in in some crazy court case about all this recently where When I met the band boats, let's let's just put this down When I met the band, there was only one guitarist in the band paul diano was singing Doug was on the drums steve was playing bass, right? And you know paul was singing And Dave and Dave Dave Murray was the guitarist steve repeatedly through the years whenever we've spoken if I asked him Did you know that steve wrote some of those lyrics? Not all steve and he told me that recently he did and um Of course this is this guy somehow Got involved with a friend who the the original the guy who says he wrote this amount of the song and that amount He died he passed on the whole thing to a mate of his who then tried to say That no, no, no, you didn't like that this guy did and I'm going to take you to court and prove it and I got a letter from a lawyer Who said this and we want to borrow your sound house tapes to set Because we want to check out the lyrics more precisely than possibly are on the pressing of the sound house tapes um And it's a london lawyer and he left a phone number and I was really annoyed actually because I know You know what it was all about and these people that contacted me were young they knew nothing about those times Okay, hold on. Let's just clarify here. So everybody understands who you know like what you mean The sound house tapes had prowler and had iron maiden It had strange world and it had what am I missing? It was a fourth one iron maiden strange Is it invasion? Strange didn't it it's strange world prowler iron maiden I'll tell you what Prowler prowler prowler I said prowler prowler iron maiden Oh, it's not burning ambition. No invasion invasion invasion Yeah, it's invasion invasion invasion prowler strange world Iron maiden those are the four those are the four so you're saying that steve harris Steve harris wrote all the lyrics on those four songs All of them paul did some as well, but steve I think wrote possibly the lyric to iron maiden itself Now these guys are claiming that they wrote some of the chord structures To some of the songs and some of the lyrics and I got this letter That that kind of said would I you know help them and basically I just wanted to tell them to f off So what I I found them up actually I did I found them up Because I thought it was an absolute nerve and a right liberty You know to try it on I found them up and I said listen you Whoever the hell you are I hope you've got the deepest pockets on the planet if you think that you're going to tackle iron maiden in a court In a court of law because not only is this this stuff. You're telling me rubbish But I I never knew any of these guys when I first met the band None of them were there There was only dave murray and I've repeatedly been told that davey played on you know on the recordings at faithwood studios and steve wrote There was you know, he wrote right and it's nothing to do with anybody else And so where did this myth of paul caron's come about nobody knows I don't know you see But he was apparently one of these guys another when steve was building the band I mean he told me in the early early days like 1976 1975 74 it's in the very very beginning you know when you're out to build a world beating band and you're very Messy anic about it, which is your dead blinker and you're serious about this There's going to be a lot of people out there who say yeah, I'll come and play for you And then no, I can't come out tonight You know, I've got to look after the wife's dog or something and this went on and on And steve chucked a whole load of would-be musicians Away because of that thing That steve wanted to rehearse a lot of times a week And then you know, you get value for three four hours a night three times four times a week It's no good anything less And none of you know, a lot of these guys weren't willing to put the hours in To do it properly and I guess this guy was one of those because he obviously didn't stay long And he was I had no idea where it came from but I did I've spoken to Steve about it and I as soon as I put the phone down from these guys I phoned the maiden office in London and because their new sort of management structure, they're all lawyers They are they're young. They weren't there At the time of the incident They would they weren't even born then But they were pleased that I talked to him because I was there Um, and I could explain stuff to them And I spoke to Steve about this and he said I'm sick to death of this I am and then Stefan found Something even worse though. I thought it was The worst thing possible what they did They printed in public on face facebook step Wasn't it? Yeah, they printed the court document They did? Yeah, that's some and Steve to court and in it they gave his address They placed down a dress down and I just couldn't believe that and um You know when I spoke to Steve about it, he was really livid right um Is he's been going on for months apparently they came to me out of desperation thinking that oh, yeah, sure You know, I'll back you. I'll back you up against the band. Will I help? Um, this is the david. This is the the denis wilcox, right? This is the court. This is the denis wilcox court case. We're talking about But I don't want to say anything that's you know, I don't want to interrupt any sort of court proceedings here That's all over now. Anyway, it's finished never was denis wilcox He disappeared off the planet after that court case sort of came about correct You know, he went and he claimed that he wrote a lot of these songs And I I don't know if it's true or not. But the point is Steve told me that he'd done it with other bands that it was a habit of his I had no idea. I've never even heard of a guy until this sort of this letter arrived from a london lawyer But yeah, can imagine my surprise When I opened it up and you know, so the backstory to denis wilcox is you You weren't even involved with the band when ben denis was in the denis was a singer of iron maiden This is even more. Yeah. Yeah, I never knew any of this. I was never there I didn't know a bloody thing about it to be honest with you, Jimmy And when this, you know, this this letter arrived and I started getting involved and then stefan got Found this dan court document, which was a summons. It was a court summons And it named steve full name and address as well And I thought that was the pits. I mean come on Who the hell do you think you are? You know, I think what happened is denis wilcox sort of had some sort of lyrics of the the songs back in the day Now we don't know if he wrote them or steve wrote them. That's the key, right? He claims he wrote them Right. He had some rehearsal tapes, right? And uh, and they were sort of on the internet these rehearsal tapes But it doesn't mean he wrote them just because he sang those words could have been steve who wrote them, right? So that's the key and then he claims that 40 years later. He didn't even know they were released on the iron maiden albums I mean, come on That is so pathetic But I don't know enough about the court case to say anymore. So No, it's fine. I just want to know where these these people get off There must be, you know Damaged psychologically or something to want to tackle a band like maiden for god's sake I know court cases come and go especially With alarming regularity with american bands or some of them. They're forever in and out of court Mind you, we've had ours here as well to be honest with you But to start with a band like maiden has got to be the biggest joke of all time Yeah, he's don't you just don't Stefan did I get it right did I get the what I said right was I close to what happened? Yeah. Yeah, I thought so I mean I covered everything in my book about iron maiden album, but yeah, I I always want to hear all opinions and Neil was one of the person who was in the beginning. So Here I got Jim all right. Here we got another question on Dennis Stratton and his departure Okay All right, I think it's uh, can't remember who wrote it Frank said, uh, you know, Dennis Stratton What happened with him? Were you around or would you yeah? Yeah was In fact later. I was the executive producer on a train mantis album That Dennis was a member of and I toured with mantis to japan with Dennis funnily enough Basically, well, I know Dennis really well. He's a great musician Listen Dennis had a brilliant had two brilliant bands actually that I personally thought were great I first saw him with a band called rdb Remus down boulevard Um, and they played a gig in south london at a trans shed with a blast roof bad sound And they were a great band and then he came out later with lion heart Remember them But what basically we had here was I think I think I believe a difference of musical opinion and writing Dennis leaned far more towards the white snake styler stuff and steam and the boys were a very very hard-fitting metal band And I don't think the two styles Comprehended each other. I'm pretty sure that would have been it. There was no other reason I mean Dennis is an east london boy most have made mark um, except the bruce of course, you know, and um You know that they were fun They were you know, they were fun and Dennis was in maiden at the time of the sound house He was he joined them as the second guitarist. There is a picture somewhere on the net if you want to find it um With iron maiden outside the entrance door to the bandwagon All in a line and Dennis is in there with them Actually, so I think I think basically it's just a matter of music more than anything You know, I think these things happen These things definitely happen. I mean you can also say when I've interviewed Dennis I think he's a great guy a great artist great musician and it could be musicians too great and you know Did he not bringing more of that vocal harmony? You know like on phantom of the opera right that there's a little bit of that harmonies, you know the vocal harmonies in there the trouble is that Yeah, now Now this is a thing I'm working with a band from northern ireland called storms They are like maiden with three four piece vocal harmonies But when you have A band like maiden they do not major in vocal harmony Um, that would take the mix into a different regime For a start if you're going to have backing vocals like that Then your mix is going to have to lift them proud so people can hear them And that always detracts from other things. You can't have everything flat out You know at a hundred percent and something has to give um besides which Be brucey's voice A bit of backing vocal a little bit, but that's what really means it and the sort of songs they do You know, they're not like a load of these american bands do with great charismatic melodic chord structures And that open huge holes for backing vocals counter counter melody backing vocals and stuff Maiden's main attack Is a stentorian voice out front And a really powerful hard driving back line That balance each other out If you want to throw backing vocals in there as well, you're gonna have to figure out where they sit and what you're willing to sacrifice In sound in order to hear them So I don't see a maiden band with backing vocals. It's an interesting concept And I know but but it worked on phantom of the opera, but it worked on phantom of the opera That's what i'm trying to say, you know, yeah It could I mean the thing is they could go that way with many But when you use backing vocals as well in a major way, it also tends to soften You know the vocal area the song When you put layered backing vocals in I mean praying mantis is the prime example Really amongst others millions of others and lines are too right there. There are very lion heart I love lion heart. I really really did this to play him at sound health Had the tape things to play him in they were much loved actually I'm a dangerous game. That was the name of the track. I added a four song demo cassette from denis And I think dangerous game was the track and it was very very white snake It was full of melody and stuff, you know And I think that's what happened that denis was writing in one way And it wasn't the way steve was writing And it's not enough and it's very nice. I don't think it was any other Yeah, I can ask something So because Neil will talk about his 80s and 90s because there's a lot of interesting Stories from this stage we need to close 70s and There are two amazing stories first about last night On of the band wagon. What's happened? I I asked nil. Okay Ben was always full full of people and why Why it's closed because if everything was good and everything is Okay, why why something like that needs to be closed shut down and what's happened and another question Connected in some point nil was Short of money to start something new and suddenly I think around christmas time he he got into the Bank bank to get some money And And What was During the robbery and what was the after with iron maiden Denial Yeah Okay, so great story. Yeah to to connect to connect the I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm let me think right The last well, I should really have a subheading here the last days of the sound house You know, I rather like that and don't forget the angry letters of iron maiden and another Basically, um You know my my own profile have been rising steadily through the last two or three years of the wagon Alongside of all the press we had and the tours started coming in and all the the work I was doing I can't even answer actually as to why I did it. I knew that I had to Once you start you can't stop If you stop you're going to let people down and that was never in in my In my makeup. I I'm the same as steven that respect. You cannot let people down. You mustn't and once it all started I had to run with the go with the flow. So basically what happened was um a pair of Mobile DJs that's what they were mobile DJs who are more used to playing vermicelli's funerals and house parties thought they could be me and after Some time I'd seen them around they were actually called power house We called them shit house, which I thought was reasonable But they were following me around on some of the bigger shows I did from a frequently watching me from the wings when I worked Watching what I did at the bandwagon. They were there always watching me What I didn't realize was that they'd gone to the pub manager of the bandwagon on the sound house He worked at charrington's brewery and they told him That they could increase the numbers even more than I ever did for half the price And he being a complete and utter fool besides which he's a book Decided that the days of me and my sound house were numbered I worked for an organization called steeple's discotheques at the sound house and they Had the subcontract to provide the entertainment at the bandwagon I was employed by them They followed me up one day and said Malcolm Tate the manager of the Prince of Wales the pub of which the bandwagon is tattooed I've been in touch. We've got six weeks left there. We're all being thrown out And this was like a terrible shock The place as Stefan said was really rocking. I mean we've done tv's there We'd had bands as big as newton's duty priests coming to see the kids The press were always there. The chart was worldwide in sounds. You couldn't want for a healthier better You know place that was earning real money Ah, but mr. Tate was pocketing the money and not declaring the earning for the brewery and as far as they were concerned It was running at a loss He used to go to the Bahamas two or three times a year on what he got off us Basically because he only paid Steeple's discotheques a wage We did not get the door All the bar he got it He got it. Yeah, and basically powerhouse looked like a great opportunity for him to double his grieving tape And get rid of me at the same time But what year was this? I was 1980 Um, I started in the wagon in 75 and 1980 was funny enough my my best year ever I did the first monsters of rock I was voted fourth top dj of the country in one of the big music papers the only non radio dj I had done tours. I was having a great great time and then suddenly they hit me with it And it was an absolute tragedy because it was a family I'd made the wagon more than just a venue. It's like a social club as well, you know, people came down the people met they got married Um, my my own bike club, you know, we used to do runs where we take Van wagon members sound house members on the back of our bikes on a sunday run to the coast It'll come back to the sound house in the evening. I'd do the show. They'd all be there I did everything that I possibly could to make this place heaven Though the heavy metal family that treated it like home That is the absolute truth. I love the place like all the others that were there. I was just a part of it Together we were a formidable family. We were anyway The last night happened about the 16th or 17th of october 1980 The manager was so scared that I was going to lead an absolute riot that he put 17 dormant in there um When I played the last song it was homebound by Ted Newby They used to sing my name to the to the tune, you know And this night they wouldn't go home They would not go home um It was uh, it was a really probably the most moving moment in my life Because up until then of all the things I'd done Including, you know, germany the sort of room in west berlin all the stuff I'd done Didn't seem to matter what mattered was the wagon and I never did it for the money because there wasn't much to have I did it for our family. I called them the sound house nation And that's what they were They were asked by record companies to formulate gig lists for bands that came over from the states What numbers would you like to hear put them in an order? You know, we did all that stuff. We did videos. We had rob loonhouse and his band of crazes and all the others We turned the place into a mecca super loon The guest of theirs at that rainbow show Actually moved 400 miles from Liverpool To live right on top of the bandwagon just so he could go there We had regulars fly over from the Channel Islands to Northern Ireland People were coming from Norway Sweden for a weekend And powerhouse thought they could be me anyway I finished the night eventually everyone did go home about half hour later I was reduced to tears man. I was in absolute tears. I don't mind admitting it. I was I felt destroyed Destroyed by ignorance stupidity and yet somebody else that bloody well interfered when he shouldn't have he He capitated the golden goose That's what he did When powerhouse opened Outside was a riot. There were people with placards There was a massive amount of fans of mine out there. Bring me back. Your bandwagon needs me I'm the bandwagon And when everyone went in and powerhouse opened up that a bad sound system anyway Everyone sat down on the floor and started reading newspapers That's what they did They threw a lot of a lot of bad fruit at those So-called guys from powerhouse And about six weeks after they started they stopped if they shut no one went there That is how it always happens the greed always always takes over and then it always sort of dilutes It's not just that it's like people who don't understand the spirit the soul the life is rock and roll either greed Or people who think they know better and really haven't got a clue Always get in your way That's what I mean about that Synchronicity everything has to fall into place in order for a great success to happen never more so than with a bank You need And tell me another question how Story Yeah, thanks story. How do I make them go the record to you? It did. Um After the wagon Jim Listener I was down and out for a little while Anyway, I started getting involved with building bands and so on but I didn't have any money to do it And I was in the bank one Friday afternoon I think it was near christen's time and I was just going in there to put a bit of money away And suddenly these three guys burst into the bank with sawn-off double-barrelled shotguns And it was get on the floor everyone now or I'll shoot you You know, um, I can assure you that when someone screams that at you And you see them the paralyzed shall move I'd left my living wallet on the counter as well My money in it, but One of them vaulted over the half counter It didn't go right up to the ceiling at the time the defensive metal grill One of them vaulted over there and demanded they open the safe We were all made to lay on the floor face down And if anyone said anything they'd shoot us that was the deal hurry up or we're going to shoot someone And um, it would have been a great advert for wearing a pair of brown trousers that day We leave down a shadow of a doubt Um, I was shaken definitely. Yeah I mean he he actually put One into that damn double-barrelled sawn-off up my nose Almost if I looked up at one stage as you do and I saw what looked like two tunnels Right up my hooter And I decided to lay down again but After the robbery they you know, they ran they got their money and they pissed off Then bank managers took us into his office. We had to wait for the police to come anyway You know and be interviewed and give descriptions and stuff But it was a young bank manager. He was a really nice guy and he said to me After if there's anything I can do for you mr. K Just you know, let me know we're always we're always my door's always open to you Then suddenly I had this idea I've got a gold album from Iron Maiden through the number of the beef for the work that I'd done for them early on And I went into the bank and saw the manager. I asked to see the manager Terry I said, listen, would you like to have one of these on the wall of your office here? Not an Iron Maiden one, but I am willing to build a bank just like them And do all the work, but I need 10 000 pounds I'm secured and I got it as well He actually gave me the money on the strength of seeing You know Maiden's gold album It's that phenomenal. So you got a loan for 10 000 pounds. Yeah, but this is hate. This is like over 40 years ago. Oh, yeah, so it's like 40,000 That'd be worth the day So I put it in the book anyway the story, you know I built I built two bands in the 80s One was called venture the other one was flight 19 Venture was first and they were the ones that very nearly did it with chrysalis Um, it's a long story We really ain't got time to go into that one other than to say I missed it by a very narrow margin All because a record company accountant did not like the band All the others from A&R the heads of section Paid for their own showcase The John Henry's they loved the music they loved the band And when we did the final showcase They all came about 15 of them from the record company all divisions or all sections And there was one guy there that was not wearing jeans or a tee t-shirt He was like a little rat face pink He was wearing a suit and a shirt and I smelled trouble straight away when I looked at him I didn't like him, you know, and he was hanging back and sure enough My friend at chrysalis records said to me as far as they were concerned. They wanted the band And he said we'll talk in a couple of days We just got a tie up a few loose ends at our end and it would have been like a hundred thou advance over three years The three albums one album a year plus touring and so on. It would have been a deal a big deal Um And after 10 days, I heard nothing. So I'll find them up My mate found me back and said listen. I'm real. Sorry We all wanted them very much very very much But there was one amongst us who didn't like them and he was a company accountant And I'm afraid he's the one who controls the first strings and if he won't release it There's nothing we can do. We're only the we're a bit. We think, you know, we're only the a and arm in. What do we know? Yeah, yeah So unfortunately they signed the adventures Not venture and add the adventures were kind of a Nothing real pop group, you know, that's what they were And that's probably where is where the accountant worked very well So yeah, but jimmy I've winning 10 because I married an accountant and now I'm happy because I've got my own Right. There you go folks Flight 19 Yeah, that's what would you want to say about them? I know you wanted to talk about them There are two bands. I want to talk to everybody about today and one of them is a tragic story and It exemplifies the stupidity the naivety the uselessness of record company people Who have the power unwittingly to destroy great bands of the future and they continue to do this to this very day It's worse even in America Because if they make a decision about signing a band and it don't work, they're going to lose their job So it's better to sit on the fence and sign nothing And I know it's not arranging and recording by the way It stands at our piece and repertoire and it comes from silver screen era It's a really old phrase our piece and repertoire That is what it means Working under dimwight at his studio complex in south London samurai studios um The drum of adventure John Burke Had some friends also from the city of Sheffield where he came from um He told them to send me a cassette down to samurai There were two of them Nigel Ward and gary flounders Just two of them. They sent me a tape and I was really really impressed never knew them didn't know them And their tape. I mean gary Gary is a graduate musician. He's from the Royal Academy in classes. We're talking about the very top here We're talking about people who read music write music and not our fan play Gary's a multi talented musician trumpet guitar piano keyboards bass just about everything that does His buddy Nigel Ward their lifelong friends great bass player Partnership is strong. Anyway, they have some really nice ideas it was ideas On the cassette and I said to Jim Jim white late manager of nazareff Paul Quinn the incredible alex harvey band Etc. I said this and Jim. I think we should go up to Sheffield and check these two out Because if they're that good and sooner or later somebody's going to grab them And I think we should and we've got everything we need at samurai You know, we've got back line. We've got rehearsal facilities sound systems We'll have a recording studio eventually. We've got the lock. So We're what are we going to lose? Jim said, I'll tell you what You let them live in your house Right, and I will let them work for me for nothing But in return they're going to get full access to every single thing they need Right Jim I've already had a band living in my house venture lived in my house nearly destroyed it and me And now you want me to go and do it again? And he said well, it's fun having a band in the house, isn't it? I said really? uh, Jim. Yeah, uh, Jim, but uh, do you know maybe uh Neil didn't tell you but He's still he's still searching for new bands and then now He found some very interesting new band and even recommended the steel support made them in some future Oh, I'm coming to that, but I've got to get this quite nice thing done. Okay. Give me. I'm gonna I'm gonna arrange somehow To send you what we're only demo tapes. It never went any further. Yeah We we got them down. We built a band a custom band around gary and migel There were several versions of guitar players and In the meantime the boys were employed We all did setups for rehearsal then the artists that came to samurai You know to rehearse were pretty high-grade but not necessarily our genre of music We did entertain motorhead once we had praying mantis but apart from that it was popsters of the day You know, we had boy, george banana ramah We did have our dark uncle and I set sound for him Before the alberthole concerts and that was a real big one But these were the sort of people that you know came down there um But gary and nigel over a period of a few years turned out some extraordinary songs And I mean that gary's father works Worked with the salvation army as a conductor a ranger producer um of the salvation army band That's what he did And all his family gary's family are all practically trained musicians Some play strings some play piano his mother is an incredible concert pianist and he has got an awesome talent And I mean that his arrangements are fantastic He lifted everything to a whole new level Anyway, time went by we felt that we were ready to demonstrate to the record industry in london what we had So jim phoned up an idea that we arranged between us a series of showcases Which we did at samurai in the number one studio there And we started getting some extraordinary comments Um one was I can't give you a deal because you're too good I think that one came from warner brothers um I think at lancic records swung around with gary and said well if you sounded more like bad company we'd consider it um And gary was originally from new castle majority And not someone to upset He's very short on words back then but very very handy with his fits And he's a man of pure music and you don't talk shit to someone When you listen to what they do and it's fantastic. If you'd heard it, you'd know what I was saying How the question is when people hear those demos from those days The one question everybody asks is how the hell did this not get a deal? Well, the reason it didn't get a deal is because the idiots that came to hear it didn't know what they were hearing They couldn't classify it in a pigeon hole. It wasn't heavy metal. It was like journey but More involved with arrangements It had strings. It had brass You know, it was a real unique sound and a real unique bang a very commercial But the trouble was back then the a and r men of the day we used to Pigeon-holing things and if they couldn't put it in a pigeon hole They didn't know what the hell it was because they didn't know what music was They didn't have a clue and gary got really upset with some of them. He really did To the point where I thought a couple would never leave the building alive through their ridiculous comments Anyway, you know eventually we couldn't get them a deal um, but the the the twist in the tale is that Jim left samurai And I I was made the full manager of the establishment for a while Jim wanted to move back to the states with his lady marie um Whilst going through his papers more recently Nigel niche from flight 19 He grabbed a load of papers out of Jim's desk back then when Jim left About two months ago. He was looking through what he had. He never even looked at him and he found a letter from an LA lawyer Who were saying to Jim Jim come out and talk to me about this fan flight 19? You know, their music is fantastic. I want to discuss their future with you Which record companies have you been to see? I want to you know go further and he never did however an italian record company more recently um issued CD as a collection of flight 19s demos Okay He's mainly primo I'm just looking his name is primo banali and it's um He's a an angle on frontier records Yes, so they've got a they've got a section jimmy where they you know like what happened to them and they release demos on cd and finally they've got one out with the best of their They're you know, they're back catalog if you like of demos greatest demos Yeah, they're only demos. They're not re-recordings They're just demos, but uh They stand I know they you know by today's standards I mean it was non-digital the only digital thing we had in the studio was a thing called a fair light And it came in a wacking great flight case and like a really nice grand piano If you nudged it with a finger it went it completely lost it and went and went balmy Let me let me ask you so now steve harris you pitched it to steve harris to sort of not them Oh, okay. Okay. I came across a band That to me need every bit of support that they can get They are doing something In the name of rock and roll that I believe is really really Of the utmost importance today I happened on them by accident on youtube It was one of these talent programs that like x-factor or something like that But it was a special compared by a brick actually a brick comedian um And it was about family acts not just music You know families that have got talent. Yeah. Yeah, right. Okay. What was the name of the band? You didn't tell me the name of the band. Oh, yeah, they're called lilyac lilyac Yes, and i'm gonna explain all that too. Okay Because i've actually spoken with the father ah Thanks to stefan Look at stefan. Look at him now lilyac He's actually romanian for fat lilyac out of hell, right? Um They are they are romanian but they live in california. Okay Papa lilyac as he likes to be referred to or he is referred to Um has been in his time I mean he's a long hair, you know, he's been a producer a ranger He's got serious studio over there. He's got the greatest back line that money can buy They've got everything they need When I saw them this thing on on On youtube the youngest was 14 I think the oldest was then 19 And here's the catch behind the drum sits a female animal I I can only describe her as that because she has to be one of the hardest hitting Female drummers I have ever seen deadly accurate sponsored Does drum clinics and she is amazing And she's only I don't know 1920 now The front person is also female And she has got an extraordinary voice I can only tell you that it is extraordinary They play and frank is telling me frank potfans tell me they played the rock pile that's in toronto and were featured on america's got talent That's it. Yes Now I have made it my business to get into this band because what they're doing Follows on directly from what my beliefs and what I was doing And they are they're not only brilliant at what they do. They have got some beautiful Own pen numbers But here's the thing when you go see liliac what you get Is an absolute dead ringer for some of the greatest late 70s Biggie rock songs there's ever been they covered the old They cover well, there's a list. I've written it out here for you And I'm just gonna look, you know So they're doing so they're doing covers and they're doing originals. Yeah. Yeah, but the covers they're doing But look, it's like I sent you to link jimmy on the facebook so you can check That's what it was. Listen what what's happening is this years ago, jimmy listeners We used to say that if you're in a rock band and you want to make it It's no good doing covers. You have to be original fair enough Now we are 40 odd years or more away from the great days Great bands and great songs that made rock of the years what it what it was And the sad thing is that generations recently have never had or will never have The opportunity of seeing the originators of these great songs performance That is a sad loss No one's ever going to see ufo again. No one's ever going to see ronnie james deo again Perform some of these greatest tunes And this band are doing the greatest tunes It's like having me as a dj live on stage playing the greats They you know They they covered Well, actually ozzie and leta ford did this one close my eyes forever. That's a beautiful song. They do that So everybody neil k's new band liliac That is the new push by neil k liliac It is um So yeah miles miles Sail away is their own ballad and it is beautiful sail away Um, they do enter sandman the last in limestone deo holy diver the maiden the trooper Paranoid crazy train. We will rock you and believe me. They all live sound exactly like the original And what they're doing is bringing bringing back to a new generation The great songs of yesteryear That's so imbued all of us with that spirit And I think that's vital. I really do believe it could be vital this band Have got everything they need Their age range is now from I don't know the youngest one keyboard quaren and second guitar Is probably now about I don't know 15 and a half 16 the oldest guitarist is probably now about 20 21 the girls may be 1920 And their image is he's got but not like real got it's black You know their image is fantastic The girls are beautiful, man and that animal that sits behind the drum kit my god If she ever hit anyone she'd kill them. Have you spoken to this band? Yeah, I've spoken to the father Okay, I didn't want to speak to the band. I wanted to talk to the father He's being fun Yeah, he manages them. He manages them. He produces every records. He's got everything. He's gotten a lot and they've gotten a lot They're very very young They're a young band and I'll tell you what watching them on that talent show was For me a dream come true They never ever feature ever feature hard rock bands on any of these programs All right. So here's here's a big question for you. Would you go to a bank? Take out a loan for 50 000 pounds They don't need it. They put it on this band. Would you do that? Would you risk it all? I would risk everything for them if I if I had to but they've got everything they need There's only one thing left that they need jimmy what they need Is a tour support with a really big band? That's what they need are in made They need to get out on the road and they need to tour behind a really big band And they also need to come to europe and play some of the big dates in europe Um, I don't necessarily think their name is great, but I can see why it's a cool name. I think lily acts cool name Well, there they are romanian They're kids of ordinary america, I believe and the mother and father are 500 behind the bank I mean there is a there is a sort of an honesty in their delivery The whole thing with them is fantastic If I had the bandwagon and still had everything I did have I can assure you I would be 900 behind them. What do you think about gretta van fleet? Don't know too much about it No, no gretta van fleet. There's the sort of new young band that have few albums out and they've got a led zeppelin vibe about them So if you haven't heard them like you can't comment, right? Yeah, I can't I mean we had we had one of those in diamond head Way back when In the new wave of british heavy metal everyone was saying well, they're like zeppelin Well, porto rico had minuto remember minuto No, it was an all-boy band, you know, I know no minuto I did cover there is another there is another band. I saw recently um as it happens The dead daisies I cool. Oh, yes Yeah, but track mexico. Oh, it's good. It's really good that comes with a pay recommendation Maybe both the jimmy and anneal. Yes. Yes. They're really good band Well, you have a glenn hues now singing right the dead daisies of how can you go wrong with a glenn hues, right? Yeah, exactly. I mean they're seasoned professionals Yeah, yeah, yeah, that gives you the band they have to be um So like I you know, I love the way. Oh and they've got um total support from ronnie james's widow as well She called him to the house Actually, she's given them a whole load of d.o. Stuff In fact, there's uh They've actually got one these one one video Um of them playing one of his numbers right outside his house on the lord You should check them out Yeah, and you know what they are vital. They are young. They have the power They are certainly doing the songs and just because some of their songs are covered I consider that like an honor Because they are showing a young generation Some of the greatest tunes that my generation ever lived through Yeah, but you told me in your upcoming biography book that you don't understand why some One market or I don't know who pushed some bands or projects for example, like bailey brothers on masters of rock festival You told me something about bailey brothers. Yeah, but they're dj's Yeah, there are any dj's that you know They're not when I did well that was I was a guest of iron maiden at one of their monsters of rock and headliners and and The bailey brothers were supposedly doing doing the work that I used to do But I'm not there from sheffield as well But uh, you know, I couldn't understand what the hell they were doing there. No one liked them In fact, they couldn't even walk on stage without getting bottled with You know piss basically people threw bottles at them and They were how do I put this? When I think the monsters of rock the first one, you know, it was just like I'm talking to you now They might have been 80,000 people out from the jimmy. We're season pros. You'll be Especially me. Yeah, of course you are You don't have to make a big song and dance about it. You don't have to swagger around backstage Like a dog dan rock star You just you know, you just get up there And and everyone is fine and that's how it is. Here's the question everyone. Here's a question from richard crook. Okay Yeah, go richard the transition between Clive and nicko which was before you know, I asked you a question, but I got it messed up It's clive and nicko clive burr and nicko I mean it was that sort of like heartbreaking for everyone was that Um, I mean you here you got a great drummer and you're replacing him with another great drummer. So there there must have been I think clive was a bit ill and he's been so I think he was burned out at the time I'm pretty sure that that's what it was. Um, but he was brave. I mean even on one of the tours I did with him he he was as sick as a dog before the show and They were all saying to him you can't play. You know, look at me. He's literally puking up everywhere And he said no, no, he said it's all right. I'll I'll manage somehow Get me a bucket by my side You know what they bought a bucket out and he was puking up into the bucket while he was playing And if that ain't worth a victoria cross, I don't know what is That's called dedication. Was that because he was starting to you know, see signs of his sickness or that was No, he had a stomach upset or something from something he'd eaten. Okay, and um, and he was really ill You know and when it came to it, I mean I think clive more or less retired himself You know, he he was burned out um They'd met nico, I guess the trust Yeah with a french fan that they were in france touring um And it was obviously was also the right the right man for the job um I don't know much more about it than that. I mean clive was a good drummer. He was You know, he was actually he wasn't as heavy hitting No, but he's got a feel. He had a feel. He had definitely had a feel Yeah, he did. I mean he powered a few albums You know Um, and it was he was fun on the road and he was he was dedicated professional You know, that's what he was. He was a bit of a shock for the fans though. I remember that at the time it was People were I mean even the music papers picked up on it now clive leaves maiden or something like that You know, everyone was in shock when that happened um But you know life has to go on I think I think the rumor at the time was you know, he's just parting too much and he burned himself out I think I mean clive was not the archetypal Party animal actually he liked yet. We all like having some fun Sure, you know, you do on the road. There's nothing else to do You don't come off stage at 11 o'clock at night and meatfully go to your hotel room and go to bed Your buzzing you you can't you need to do something to climb down You don't have some fun gets worse in japan, believe me But what about what about the transition from uh, well bruce says, you know, I've had enough I don't have enough input in the band and adrian smith band and ship and you know, well I mean you know The men of maiden are also individuals. We have to remember this. I I like looking at it in this way They're individuals They have their own lives But here's where the magic happens when they all walk on stage together They sort of meld into one Machine They become one And that's when it that's when the magic really happens and it is magic um, but Bruce The bruce is bruce at the end of the day You know, I know I've known him well. I knew him in samson. I know him maiden, you know He's a consummate professional and absolutely everything he does and if he You know, there's often a mistake made in some bands in big bands where one person Sometimes things if he leaves the band it's gonna you know damage the band But actually the band is bigger than any one individual And it always will be And that is what I've kind of said in a roundabout way that when those individuals joined together on stage To give you guys the show The magic happens and they become one And the other thing worth remembering is this The king is dead Long live the king. Yes, of course. The show must go on Now I watched that happen with bone Scott. Yes. I told you about that last time. Yeah, you did. You know, so, I mean Could the band and here's the question. I even we talk about it amongst friends You know Iron maiden is such a powerful sort of a group and in the sense group And you and and Steve Harris one day to said says, you know what guys, you know, I'm just really tired right now But you guys continue bruce adrien niko You guys are just as much as Iron maiden as I am could the band go on and we've had this discussion amongst friends many many times I have a belief all of you out there that are listening tonight. I know you all made in fans That's why you tune in and Jimmy as well as stephan over there and crow hr I believe it's like this I think that davie and steve probably have Some sort of a I don't know an agreement an arrangement and I think when one's out enough that will be it I don't possibly believe the band could go on without steve And to be honest with you, I can't see it going on without davie these these men these men Who started so many years ago? Who had given of themselves? unselfish for over 40 years to the world have a right to a private life In their later years of life they have each and every one of them conclusively Selfishly put themselves out in the world before their own family and their own children You cannot be in a world beating band and suddenly decide oh, oh, I must go home my kids got a cold or something It don't happen You can't let people down. I told you You have to be A thousand percent committed and dead selfish with it as well even my own life at my little level For years and years and years. I never had a I never had A christmas eve off. I never had a new year's eve off. I never had a boxing day Of which is the day after christmas day. Oh, yeah, we have that in canada. We have boxing day in canada. I just Croatia, I don't think they have it there I mean, I never saw my own son grow up when I did a tour with them I left in february and didn't come home till bloody june You know, unfortunately rock and roll demands the total sacrifice Selflessly of your life to the fans the stage the music and the life And if you feel and you're in a band and you think you want to go somewhere big And you cannot fulfill any of those edits then don't bother And that is what I mean You cannot possibly succeed and be a part-timer. It don't work I love what you said because it's so true and that's probably the difference between bands who make it and bands who don't make it Oh Listen to the lyrics of the summer of 69 by brian adams One buggered off one got married We never meant it garros, you know, I mean Everything that I just said is so true. I gotta tell you something The most remarkable move sorry to cut you off stefan was okay, and when adrian came back and people thought okay yannix out, but no they didn't throw him out They said you're part of the family stay in the family. We'll we'll give you our 1 6th or whatever that percentage was That was probably that's the that's what says it all right there. That says it does I mean it also answers the question about a more modern style of iron maiden You know Would you want to say That you ran away Now he's talking to the mrs. I think the mrs. The little baby sleeping I mean, I'm sure out there, you know In radio land we deal with musicians all the time. I have You know part of me is so fed up and it's in the book It is in the book about you know the bands that I built and worked with in portugal My northern irish band of 100% anyway, there's no problem with them Storm zone, but um, you know, people don't understand what it takes The very least time A musician in a band is going to spend in a 24 hour period is the two hours you get on stage The rest of it is learning how to How to tour how to play how not to upset your sound engineer You know how to get on with everyone how to be humble how not to behave like an A big headed superstar when you are nothing and nobody You know, these are all the unwritten rules of the road of rock and roll And there are hundreds of rules and not one of them's ever been written And the thing is you only learn them when you make a mistake And I've made a few as old Frank's enough to say You know, we all do Yeah, just I just need to tell As I announced before I need to leave the chat because I have some obligations so I can speak on who I power and 30 minutes but If you continue you can Define I got a run to I would be we had a good chat very very good chat. It was great We can even do it again in the any last questions out there. Oh, yeah Good the fact I'm going to let you go. There is there is also many I'm sorry about for example, Steve Harris wedding and your media Define you want to do you want to knock off? I could still stay here for a few more minutes I got a problem Define you got to leave. So, yeah, uh, I can stay a few more minutes and we'll just do a few more minutes And then we'll knock off because I got to go have supper too Uh No, yeah, that makes service Hey, Jim, I always eat late. What the hell are you eating? What is it like 11 o'clock there? It's course of midnight. Oh, and you're gonna have supper. Yeah, but I'm up through the night because that's when I do my best work I still I still live at night and go to bed about half seven in the morning and get up about 3 34 in the afternoon. I was going to ask you about right, but I think that's going to take way too long Right Yeah, yeah, we had a whole lot of stuff with them as well. That was fun. Yeah. Yeah, they they were lovely actually We talked about April wine Uh, I know that uh, you know that these guys still a few of them live in Montreal where I'm at Brian Greenway, I know that I think I think Brian Greenway saw part one from April wine and uh, Miles Goodwin moved to the eastern part of, uh Canada, that's where he originally came from No one's ever asked me about my favorite bands or anything like that really give us one of your favorite bands before you let us go That's easy rush That's a no-brainer. I mean, you know, I I think I did the hemispheres Stepan next book rush, but I think yeah, but I think neil, uh, I remember a Riot Send message angry message after yeah, actually jimmy stepan makes a very good point When we got kicked out the wagon, there was a real furorate from the industry um charrington's brewers received very very heavy letters From many bands and many management companies iron maiden amongst them But one of the most poignant came from billy rnell Riot's manager from new york city. He wrote to charrington's telling them exactly what he thought of them How ridiculous and stupid and gullible their manager must have been to be taken in by a pair of absolute arseholes Which is what he wrote. I did I did a documentary on riot and uh, you know steve lobe great band Steve lobe was one of my guests on it and uh, you know, he went into a lot of detail I don't want to get into this. This is like another hour right here Uh, he did, you know, sort of like uh, when narita was released. There was this whole I wouldn't call it a protest. We'll call it and uh, and uh, sort of uh You know a protest to get the album released in the uk they wouldn't as well Hey, they had the same thing with the first one. Yeah. Yeah with rock city rock city comes out They don't want to release No, I I had to go the we are mine. Um, billy billy rnell. Look, I met riot. I think they were Trying to remember they were supporting sammy haigar. Yes. They were some Yes, they were supporting sammy hanger. I was booked to do part of that too I was there compare link man and dj and I met them there And I thought all the kids at the wagon had loved to meet this lot Is they're crazy and I billy was over and he said sure we'll come up to the club Just you know when we when we got the time we'll come and meet the kids and they did riot came to the wagon and went out on the floor and air guitar with everyone Amazing moments And we became great friends guys to leave you now See you later. Yeah All right, we loopy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah tomorrow out flip. Yeah, no problem. All right. All right. Thank you Thank you. Yeah, all right. All right. Just hit the red button for use to fan um Billy, um Company wouldn't release the movie album. No, it was only available to the fans in the united kingdom and europe That's right. I bought a billy foamy up one don't you said listen Can you go down and talk to our record company? Which was flying under the main emi flag? It was an emi. It was um Maybe with columbia. I can't remember their label now. I think it was I think it turned into capital at the end of the day Oh, yeah, it was yeah, maybe yeah, um He said look we need to get the album out. We're on tour We need to sell and the record company won't release it because they don't believe it's going to sell I said you've got to be kidding. They're a dynamic little band young Great possibilities and they're right in the vein. They're right where they should be. I love them to bits I said, oh, I'll go down there and talk to somebody But by that time I got down to london for some reason. I was in a right move And um, I was known to most record companies. I could just walk in the door They all knew me because I used to get freebies all the time This time was different. I went into managing directors office unannounced and slammed me this devil on his desk And said you are going to release riot's album now And he was what you know, he knew what I was But you know, it was it was a moment do a do I call security and have myself slung out or And he He said all right. All right. He said calm down. Let's talk about it Um, there was a petition. There was a petition outside of the hammersmith after Madness, I said to mr. This is nuts. You've got a band on tour Supporting sammy hagar who used to be with montrose is well known in the rock world and your band You're on the tour in support and they'll sell believe me. They will You know my my own followers and fans at the sound house They're all having to pay exorbitant amount of money To him to buy an import Of rock city and it's not right now release the damn thing and let's get on with it And to my utter amazement they did Finally release it, but I didn't know this happened with marita as well I think hold on. I think what happened was So the people in the uk they knew riot through narita, right No, rock city. Sorry. No. No, I take that back. They knew it through rock city, right Then the band comes on tour and then narita is not being released. This is before fire down under Oh, the fire down under was a great album. They had three albums Narita, they yeah, yeah, those are the first Narita and the fire um What happened was we couldn't it was rock city. We couldn't get released That was at the time of the british tour. Yeah, that came out just before on import That was what they were touring their set was from rock city It was not you know, you know, it's been so long. I'm getting it all confused. I don't want it like Jimmy I'm 72 years. Yeah You can't you can't quit on me now, man But god save there's a whole story. I must have done 20 minutes on the whole story and you know detailed you know them go to the uk the Sort of the What I'm calling the the shenanigans going behind the scenes and all that fun stuff I've done it. Listen sammy hagas manager ed left. There was a right moron Jesus Christ. What a heavy but he wasn't a moron. That's not fair. He was a very very heavy guy He was yeah, yeah, he was an absolute heavy guy And um, you know, I was there. He told me how to introduce sammy haga I had a specific request To introduce him as the red rocker sammy haga You know, I was made to do stuff that I don't usually like doing I'm freestyle. I like doing my own thing like you You walk out on stage you greet people. Hey guys, how you doing? You know, you have a quick chat with the crowd You get him going In a nice easy way Tell somebody his flies are open and he needs to zip it up Tell somebody else don't have any contact with Debbie hensie. She's just come back from you know, the old clinic You wind them up a bit these old chestnuts go down a storm once in a while Um, and then you know, you do it. You don't people can't actually come to you and say I want it this way I want it that way Um, we have to be allowed To do our own thing You know, that's that that's the greatness of our individuality again Yeah, I agree. That's what we do. Yep Now jimmy what I want you to do I need an email because what I'm going to do is send you Um, I'm going to send you a couple of songs from flight 19 Okay And I'm going to do it within the next couple of days before we do number three All right, I'm going to send you I'm going to text you my email address. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's cool Yeah, yeah, it's all good. Well, I'm not going to text me. I'll messenger. I'll messenger. Yes. Yes Yeah, send it on messenger and I can pick it up there Then I I mean I'm putting the demos not from the release cd, but I've got the originals you bet. I have Just run through a graphic equalizer But it's not the quality you're listening to it's what it's what the songs are and you'll know Okay, I mean you're gonna ask me how come this band never got a deal You're gonna you're gonna join the others, you know I'm liliac Yeah, in the meantime liliac in the meantime liliac. That's a neil k's recommendation All right. I mean rush and rush keep keep on listening to rush I mean, you know, I did the tour the hemispheres tour with them And they so impressed me This is what I meant when let me turn around to me once and said this I told you, you know, why can't you do for us what you did for iron maiden And um, he said, you know, we're only a three piece and we're a bit raw. I said, yeah, but I don't do wrong By the way, right around your three piece But they're musicians. There's a bit of a difference here. You know what I mean Neil perk as a drummer. Did you did you talk to him? Did you hang out with him? No, I said he was getting lily. I spoke mostly to Neil pear was very private In fact, he hated people seeing him even walking to the drum kit He had a tunnel built of velvet black velvet curtains that led from the side of the stage right up to the drum kit And he read a bible. He had a bible in his hand And he read it all the way to the drum kit Alex lives and was friendly, but get he leaves spent Actually, I mean, I was the littlest person on the tour You know the tiniest little person and get he came over to me one evening You know when I was playing sounds before they went on And he said, uh, can I have a look in your your record cases? And he started rifling through them and you know, we were talking about some of the bands. There's a nice guy and so talented Jimmy it's always the talent that gets me It's not just The anti-establishment attitude It has to be talent It really has to be Yeah, I was not I am a music snob because I like it I like it when it's got lots and lots and lots of great musical ability Yeah, yeah, that's what I believe in the excellence of The forums have the excellence in writing The only time the only time I met gendry lee was in his book signing He had a book signing the big base book a few years ago And you know, we met the crowd and How to sit down. He's a lovely guy. They are nice guys I mean they I said at the time of doing that that work with them that they come across more as university professors Rather than rock star to be honest with you. Yeah, there's no You know, I mean their crew are dead pro as well very tight Very serious, you know, very messianic Yeah, I mean, I love all that to me. That's how it should be Hydrogen some fun is okay But everything has its place and when you're out there you need the dedicated bunch of guys People don't need to talk to each other when they're a crew They just look at each other and they know What they have to do and when the whole machine moves forwards And no one ever seems to think about that You know, you go see a band your favorite band. Did you think about the amount of work that has to be done? By so many others in order to present the live show You know, it's a staggering amount. I mean a a heavy band a big band on the road. He's like a mobile sticky Yep, yep, it is that and it doesn't correspond to normal nine to five rules of life either That's right. That's right on that note On that note after two hours on that note. Yeah, it is shutting it down I'd like to thank everyone personally that's you know been listening. I hope I didn't bore you too much guys I think everybody enjoyed it and thanks for the questions. Some of them are really good. Yep. Yep. We'll do it again Neil in a pleasure. We will talk soon. Have yourself a wonderful night You too, Jimmy. Thanks very much indeed. I really appreciate it. It's been fun And that's what rock roll is supposed to be